Becoming an entrepreneur takes grit.
Deciding to do it solo takes courage.
This is 1,000 Routes, the podcast where we explore the stories of solopreneurs who have made the bet on themselves to build a business that serves their life. Every episode you'll hear about the lessons they've learned and the uncommon routes they've taken to stand out in a world that is purposefully trying to commoditize them.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:00:00]:
Success doesn't have to look like what you think it looks like or what people try to condition you to believe it. It is. At the end of the day, I think we're mostly all just here to like, do good work, meet good people and make a real impact.
Nick Bennett [00:00:19]:
This is 1,000 Routes. Every episode, a solopreneur shares how they're building, what they're building. We'll hear all about how they've made the bet on themselves, the uncommon route that they're taking to build a business that serves their life, and the reality of building a business of one. I'm your host, Nick Bennett. Before we get started, I'm excited to share a new program that I've been working on called Full Stack Solopreneur in partnership with my friend and legendary entrepreneur Erica Schneider. Now, unlike other programs, Full Stack Solopreneur is a hybrid digital program for independent professionals who are too far along for another course to be really all that helpful. But not enough to invest in a private coaching or consulting service. In here, you'll gain access to both the full curriculum and monthly group coaching clinics to teach you how to create a legendary niche offer, how to build a content engine and how to sell like a human.
Nick Bennett [00:01:12]:
You can learn more at fullstacksolo.com that's fullstack s-o-l-o dot com. So Kaylee, this is. I'm already like fast friends. I'm already loving this. I first became familiar with you and kind of how you're here even in the first place is when you started at Refine Labs. And I realized that I've clearly am. I don't know, I'm just like not that plugged into the tech scene because once I realized I discovered, you know, I was reading some of your stuff, like you came through a whole bunch of really cool companies and I'm like, wow, how'd I miss that one? But I guess I'm not a tech person, so it's okay. But so having spent all this time intact and then you end up at Refine Labs and you Transition Professional Services, I'm curious what that transition was like.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:02:04]:
That's an interesting question. So, yeah, I spent the majority of my career in B2B SaaS properly in house and had like almost 2 like checkboxes that I felt I needed to accomplish under my belt before going here, like before going solo. So one of those things was to like cross the box of marketing to non martech companies. So like I had spent the majority of my career somehow in a martech like environment and I was like, okay, sweet. I can market to people who look and think and talk and have the same pain points as me. Feels like maybe the easiest bridge to walk. Yeah, can I also be successful doing this outside of the martech bubble? And so that was my rationale and my move to Brightwheel, which was an ed tech company and checked that box and felt successful about that run. And then the next box was like, how do I understand at a deeper level the inner workings and the orchestration needed to work with multiple partners at the same time.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:03:05]:
That was initially like part of my ethos for wanting to go to Refine Labs. Quickly followed by the fact that it will forever be like the biggest moment in my life where I'm surrounded by the highest density of demand gen talent that I'll ever have the opportunity to be like faced with at one setting ever again. So it was like a hyper growth period for me to be surrounded by other like minded brilliant brains, but also to understand the mechanics of running an agency business that has a lot of similar, similar parallels to a consulting business.
Nick Bennett [00:03:40]:
Yeah, totally. I think there's the things you gotta do to be successful. Demand marketer for tech company and even the demand marketers who were client facing like, you know that role, you did it in house for a really long time, but then you come in and you're like, what do I need to do to grow a services business? Because you're selling the invisible, you're selling what you guys know and your ability to help people succeed versus by this thing that shows up in your web browser.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:04:10]:
And to me I think it was like twofold, right? I'd been in house for so long, I was concerned that I would either like not be able to be successful in a services world because I think like the biggest down part of like an agency or a consulting is that you only know what you know, or even worse, you only know what the client is willing to share with you. And so if you can't get deep enough at the level of your sales to understand the inner workings and mechanics of the business, you won't be successful. And then you have to rinse and repeat that same process for a handful or so of clients at a time. So I think the like density problem was something I thought I would face where it's like I'm used to being so in house that I know the inner workings of everything almost about this business which helps me with the inputs and the data points I need to be successful in a growth role. So I thought that was going to Be like one interesting challenge and then secondarily. Yeah, how are you going to like sell the invisible? That's a really good way to put it. Or pitch. Right.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:05:11]:
You almost become. You're like a one man band or a one woman band. So like you are now the marketer, you're the salesman, you're the closer, you're the csm. Like you are now one package. Instead of your role just being marketing, you're a one woman show. And I was like, okay, two interesting hurdles. And all of those things were like part of my, you know, mantra for going and joining refined labs.
Nick Bennett [00:05:35]:
Yeah. I mean they're in an. That's an interesting stop to make because when you showed up, they were also on a ridiculous trajectory. Some context. I spent the majority of my marketing career at an agency, marketing and selling professional services. I was on the delivery side, I was on the marketing side, the sales. I did a bunch of things there. And to see an agency like that come up and explode and then for someone to.
Nick Bennett [00:06:01]:
It's like getting hitched to that rocket ship is. There's so many things that you get to experience and see that I would imagine struck a ton of confidence in your ability to say, okay, my time here is coming to an end. What's next? Get another job at any logo I want. Because let's be real, like when all of these places, all these logos on your LinkedIn experience combined give you an opportunity that I think not everybody has and that's cool. That's like, that's well deserved and well earned. But now the, now the, the path in front of you is do I try to do this thing on my own or do I do I pick whichever logos, hitting up my DMs or something. So I'm curious for you, like, what was the turning point for you that was said go solo or other job?
Kaylee Edmondson [00:06:51]:
Yeah. Well, I think that all of us inside of especially tech. Right. And I can only speak to tech because that is my experience. So maybe this is actually more broadly applicable. But especially inside of tech, in 2021, 2022 times were just really freaking tough. Layoffs became like the norm and became very. Okay.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:07:11]:
You know, you start off like any call with anybody and you ask them what they're doing and what they're up to. And almost every person was saying, well, I got impacted by a layoff or I'm having to impact my team by a layoff. Like so many things, it became so common. It started to send like nervous signals to me. I am naturally a worrier I would say I'm pretty type A personality. I have a family and two young children that I'm responsible for fiscally and in every other way to take care of them. It started kind of to like break down the walls of this conditioning. I think this is kind of what we were talking about before, but of this conditioning where we all inherently, or at least me for sure, as I was growing up, really was convinced that like W2s mean that you're successful and W2s mean that you're, you know, stable and secure.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:08:00]:
And all of that kind of came crumbling down pretty quickly with everything that was going on in the economy in 21 and 22. And I just had me kind of worried and had me questioning. To me like actually a W2 means that I'm putting all of my eggs in one basket. And if that one basket makes a wrong move or makes a poor bet as a company or can't secure a next round of funding or anything, sets unrealistic growth goals that I can't hit, okay, there's my basket, right? My security basket is like no longer existing. And so it kind of had me thinking about creating option sets. I ended up In March of 22, I found Elena Verna on LinkedIn. If anybody listening to this doesn't follow that woman, please go do it. She's amazing.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:08:49]:
She's a rock star. Fee had a LinkedIn resume similar. It's very flattering. You think highly of my own resume. I, I felt that way about her. She has worked for any reputable company you've ever seen. She's been there. So like she was the CMO at Miro, she's at Dropbox right now.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:09:06]:
She's got just a very, very strong resume for really reputable PLG companies. And she's a growth, a growth queen at her heart. So met with her, she happens to be based here in Nashville. We went and grabbed a coffee that turned into a two hour chit chat. And she is also a solopreneur and also a working mom and a sole provider for her household and has been so successful and that was the first real turning point for me was to hear from somebody else that like success doesn't have to look like what you think it looks like or what people try to condition you to believe it is. And she has completely created a business and a world of her own that gives her a lot of joy and she's able to help a lot of startups with her working structure and with her business structure. And I was like, wait a Second, I think I want this right? And so that was in March, and that was, you know, I didn't decide to leave refine labs until August. So what is that, six months? Like, so it took me like a handful of months to actually create the courage, build the confidence, understand what I wanted my ecosystem to look like and what I wanted my revenue streams to look like to actually pull the trigger and, like, take the leap.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:10:18]:
So it still wasn't like an overnight decision for me because it does feel still with some degree of risk. Even though, you know, you're diversifying your revenue stream so that you can decouple your risk, there's still risk involved. So I'm still a little nervous.
Nick Bennett [00:10:32]:
Yeah, I just wrote about this yesterday. There's risk. All paths have risk. It's just you. And we tend to think that we're operating from zero, but you're not. There's plenty of risk in doing nothing, and there's plenty of risk in going in house somewhere else or doing your own thing. Uh, it's just you get to decide and you get to kind of make that, make that choice on your own versus somebody making it for you. So I'm curious, how did you end up actually talking with her? Because I know a lot of people have told me they're not, like, afraid, but there's like, why would someone ever spend that time with me?
Kaylee Edmondson [00:11:07]:
Yeah, I'm literally gonna go back and pull up this DM because I'm like, I think it was really embarrassing and I just want to, like, put it on record, because why not?
Nick Bennett [00:11:15]:
Please? I need to follow this person too.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:11:17]:
It's super embarrassing. I'm going to do a dramatic reading.
Nick Bennett [00:11:20]:
I respect this reading greatly.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:11:24]:
1:06Pm on a Tuesday. And I know that because I embarrassingly said nothing like a cold DM on a Tuesday. Sweat face emoji, I said candidly. I'm booking several career mapping calls this month as I'd like to take a moment to reflect. On what. On what I'm looking for in my own career. I've been a longtime admirer of your career. I'd be blown away if we could meet.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:11:44]:
I understand that you're a full time working mom, so time is hard to come by. Happy to work with any variables or constraints. In person. Lunch, zoom, Async over. Async over. Dms, et cetera. Would love to learn from you. And literally, what is this? Four, six, Six minutes later? Math is hard.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:12:01]:
Six minutes later, she said, hey, lady. I actually just met with Alina, who's The co founder at Chili Paper, where I was before. Small world. Oh, when you're actually in Nashville, this is so rare. Where are you? I'm here. Maybe we can grab coffee.
Nick Bennett [00:12:15]:
Yo, period.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:12:17]:
So, like, people are so much more approachable than you give them credit for. I think that's the underlying right. People would go and look at Elena or whoever's profile and say, oh, my God, they work at Dropbox. Oh, they work at Asana. Oh, they work at Salesforce. And then just, I don't know, you make some kind of assumption about them that, like, they're too busy, they're too big, they're too well known, they're too credible. We're all humans. We're all humans.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:12:40]:
And she sat and shared so much with me about her business and how she got there and how she started. And that's literally what I needed to be like, I can do this. So I think give people more credit. People are more approachable than you think they are. And you can send really embarrassing dms on a Tuesday. And who knows, they might respond.
Nick Bennett [00:12:58]:
Yeah, I love this because, first of all, thank you for sharing that because I've sent a million embarrassing DMs and some were responded to and some weren't. And I haven't read them on a podcast before, but. But I will tell you this much. Most people are, tell me they are afraid to send, to hit send on that because there's this feeling that they're not worth investing, being invested in in that kind of way. And so it is in your mind you sent. The way that, that you read that message was like, Hail Mary. Like, I'm just going for it. Let's just see what happens.
Nick Bennett [00:13:34]:
And maybe, maybe not. Who knows it? And it changed your life. So you said she shared so much stuff with you. What was the most impactful thing she shared with you? Like, what has stuck with you? That is just lives rent free.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:13:47]:
It's so. It's like, interesting because I ended up like, I didn't take a notebook or anything to like, meet a random lady from LinkedIn, like, at a coffee shop.
Nick Bennett [00:13:56]:
And weirder than the Tuesday dm, I.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:13:58]:
Should have taken a notebook. Well, at the time I remember what was so interesting is that her primary profile photo was like an AI avatar that didn't look human at all. It was like the most, like, dialed AI version of a headshot. You could have had no idea what she looked like. And I just remember telling my husband, I was like, I'm sharing my location. I'm not entirely sure this is her headshot. And my husband, who works in corporate America and lives a very different like working life than startup culture was like, are you kidding me right now? And I was like, if I don't text you back, come find me.
Nick Bennett [00:14:33]:
Send this robot photo to the police please, because this is how they will find it.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:14:38]:
This is like, you know, hello. So anyways, I do remember that going into it and for all those reasons I didn't take a notebook with me. But frantically halfway through I looked at her and I was just like, can I take notes on my notes app real quick? Like you're saying so many things, I feel like I need to be writing these things down. And she was like, duh. So I'm like, while we're eating coffee, just like eating coffee while we're drinking coffee, just frantically typing on my notes app. And I think a couple of things rung true for me. One, this concept of like long term sprints versus short term projects interestingly keeps her mind engaged. So she has this working structure.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:15:15]:
And now this is just like a podcast actually about Elena. So like you're actually just interviewing two people at once and sadly I'm just speaking for her. But she has this interesting model where she likes a balance of long term projects and short term engagements that help her plug in quick win learnings to more of like a real life long term engagement that could be applicable to others that are in in house roles. It creates her content wheel, it fuels her own engine for business and revenue streams. And it was this concept of like most people that are going solopreneur or are consulting are like fractional or like only do, I don't know, paid media ads or whatever. And I was like, but I don't want to only do paid media ads. Right? Like, and it felt like a weird hurdle for me. So when she laid out that basically she goes like right now she's interim for a year or however long she ends up being there at Dropbox and she's like running and leading a team.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:16:08]:
She's held accountable to okrs. She's also an advisor to several companies on short, shorter term projects that make her excited and give her energy and help kind of fuel her own content engine. And I was like, oh, I want that.
Nick Bennett [00:16:24]:
I want that different too. It's very different from what you see most people doing. And I've, I can already see just looking through your own site and your offers how that's influenced a lot of the, some of the things that you're doing a lot.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:16:36]:
Like I'M telling you, I just want to be like a micro her. So I think it's like finding like the red thread in all this is like kind of finding somebody who maybe isn't doing exactly what you want to do, but is doing things differently enough to where you're like, oh, well, okay, like, now I actually have options. Like, let me consider the way in which I could build my own path. Maybe it doesn't look like what I've been told success looks like. In fact, maybe there isn't anybody already doing exactly what, you know, I want to be doing, but maybe somebody's doing half of it and somebody else is doing the other half. Could that be a pathway for me that, like, gives me joy, allows me the freedom and flexibility with my kids, but also, like, keeps me plugged in and learning and engaging. And I think those were all kind of checkboxes that I wanted to figure out how to check and just didn't understand the framework in which to do it with.
Nick Bennett [00:17:22]:
Do you still keep in touch with her?
Kaylee Edmondson [00:17:24]:
Yeah, she's great.
Nick Bennett [00:17:26]:
Awesome. I love that. So you just, you just said frameworks. And this is something that has been leaping out to me since I've first started reading your posts and stuff. You are very much a systems thinker and it sounds like she is too. So where do you get that from and how I. I see it in a lot of things. And I'll give you a really, really quick example that, a prominent example that jumps out at me because we had already mentioned that substack you wrote about going solo, which is where this entire conversation came from.
Nick Bennett [00:17:57]:
And you alluded to this thing that, like, feeling like the market and your resume, which you've talked a bit about already, and your network were ready, ready for you to go solo. Right. It's like, this is systems thinking, this is framework. You're setting the conditions. So I have talked to a lot of people about this. Most people are gut check. Most people are like, yeah, I got laid off and I gotta. I had a choice to make that was like, that's a lot of my story.
Nick Bennett [00:18:26]:
But you're sitting there very methodical and I'm getting the same vibes from your conversation with Elena. So I don't know what's your process for that? Do you even recognize that this is kind of how you operate?
Kaylee Edmondson [00:18:38]:
No. No. And so now I'm trying to do some like, real time retro of my life to like, as you're asking this, to try and understand why, why maybe I am this way. And I don't really know. Like, I feel like this must be like a, this is now turning into like a child therapy session or something where I'm like, huh, let me think way back to like my childhood and try and figure out why I like systems. I don't know, I feel like even as a kid though, really, I've always had to wear a lot of hats. Like even in my childhood I grew up pretty fast and just had to kind of be an adult very young. And so there always needed to be like a method to the madness because it's.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:19:13]:
Did it sometimes feel like madness? And I think that I'm, I'm an only child. I'm an infj. If anybody believes in Myers Briggs. I recharge and get a lot of energy like from being alone and deep thinking. I love reading all those things. So it's like, I think to me, like a system or like a process was always my way of like coping with all the hats. And I think I must do that now as an adult, obviously. Thank you for pointing it out to just like create a system.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:19:39]:
Like there just needs to be a system. Even when you said like most people, our gut thinkers, I'm like, oh, don't do that. It makes me nervous.
Nick Bennett [00:19:48]:
It's like risk, it's risk management. But you pulled it out of your conversation with her and that's what made me, that's what really dialed it in for me. As I was even just prepping for this conversation, I noticed it immediately. And then you, you pulled out the systems that she shared with you. And I think that has a lot to do with your, with some of the trajectory you've been on. And just the ability to do all this work in this type of way is because you, you see the world through that lens and you can just document it. Like you scroll through your LinkedIn posts and you're gonna see exactly what I'm talking about.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:20:26]:
I've never thought of myself as a system thinker. For what it's worth. I think that, I think that I like to stand up systems in work, like inside of my like growth functions and my programming. All of that is very systems based. And so maybe in my head it kind of went the other way around. Like, because I apply systems at work, it also makes sense for me to like pull that over into like my personal life or now like this new business venture for myself. But maybe I think what you're highlighting is it actually worked the other way around. Like because I was a natural systems thinker personally.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:20:55]:
Maybe that's why I ingest systems and processes into, like, my actual growth programs for work. I just always assumed it was the other way around. But maybe you're pointing out something that's not new to me.
Nick Bennett [00:21:07]:
I mean, I think, because I don't think in systems in the same way. And I'm always. I'm always trying to create new frameworks for myself and for my work and my clients and things like that. So I'm naturally drawn to people who do and all these other things. And so when I was reading through your substack and you made this, this post and you do outlined these, this framework you use to decide to make this decision, to feel comfortable, to go. And you actually, you wrote something and I'm gonna read it. I'm gonna read something that you wrote back to you now about the. The conditions being set and met for you to go solo.
Nick Bennett [00:21:45]:
And you said you followed up with a bunch of inbound requests that felt like the best fit. And you were met with a lot of people who said, well, if you wanna work with us, why wouldn't you just come on as a W2? He said, that felt strange to me at the time. But nonetheless, market acceptance for this type of role, I imagine, just wasn't there yet. So I'm curious what changed? And ultimately how did that lead you to acquiring your first clients?
Kaylee Edmondson [00:22:13]:
So what's interesting is that I still actually think that market acceptance for these types of roles that we're creating, if you're not, if you don't brand yourself as an agency or you don't brand yourself as. I'm a W2, I want to be an FTE employee for your brand. I still think there's a gray area that makes market acceptance low because the hirees or the CROs or CEOs or whoever still feel uncomfortable about, like, living and working in the gray. And actually, I don't think that's changed. But I think what changed for me is that I still kept coming back to the notes on my notes app. I kept coming back to Elena. I kept coming back to a handful of others that I'd found at that point point who were doing this successfully. And I'm like, okay, so, like, everybody I had chatted with was still like, I don't know, we can just like, hire you.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:23:05]:
You can come work here. This would be great. We'd love to have you. And maybe it's because I'm Southern, maybe it's because I'm introverted, I don't know. But I was just always Like, I hate confrontation. So I was always like, I don't know, I don't really want to. Thanks, but no thanks. And then finally for one of them, I was just like, no, I don't want to be a W2.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:23:23]:
Let me give you, like, a quick pitch on why. And just, like, where I'm at in my own journey. I would love to do work with you. I would love to make real impact for your brand, but these are my constraints to work, and I will be successful in this lane in this way. And they literally said, okay, so it was me the whole freaking time. I'm like, I could have done this four months ago. Maybe other things would have not been the same, blah, blah, blah. But literally, the first person, I was just like, let me stand my ground.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:23:51]:
Maybe it's me. Let me stand my ground and be a little bit more confident and assertive and what I'm trying to say that I want to do for this company. And then it freaking worked. And I was like, okay, fine, so it's a me problem. And there have been plenty of those moments, trust me, especially in the last nine months since I've gone solo. But, yeah, it's a me problem.
Nick Bennett [00:24:09]:
Yeah, the. The whole sales thing, like, that's a sales environment, and you don't really think of it like one in that moment, but it's definitely a sales conversation. Even if it's happening in a LinkedIn, DM or whatever. That's hilarious. But you gotta ask for what you want. And I feel like I've said this on, like, every one of these episodes at this point, it's like half the battle of getting to where you're trying to go. And anything in life and especially as a solo is asking for what you want.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:24:40]:
I think so too. And doing it, like, with confidence. Right? You really, like, you really do need to become a salesperson. And, like, throughout my entire career, I've always given all chops to salespeople because it's gotta be the hardest freaking job on the planet. And now that I'm in this shoe and I'm like, oh, I'm kind of a quasi salesperson. It's awful. It's the worst part for me. It's the worst part of the process.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:25:03]:
Even though, you know, like, my. My deals or my opportunities or whatever language we want to talk in come inbound to me. So, like, at least I'm being sought out still. I feel like I'm in the hot seat every time I have to put on my, like, closing hat. And I just like, am not a closer, naturally. And so it is like a real skill, like, to never split the difference is a real skill. And so I applaud people who do that. Well, I still think that's my biggest opportunity in like, the solo route is to understand and be confident in asking for what I want and not feel like overwhelmed by the like, potential confrontation that probably will come up.
Nick Bennett [00:25:40]:
Yeah, I think we've convinced ourselves, especially being in a career in tech, that there is like, this is the sales process. It is seven calls. And we needed a connect call, an explore call, discovery call, a qualification call, another discovery call. We need to have a decision maker call, proposal call. We need to have engineering come in and have a solution architecture call. And you're like, I can just run the sales process the way that I feel good running it because you are selling you. There is an element of organizational change when people like us show up to any business, but you're selling your ability to help them succeed more than you are trying to sell this like, grand transformation or whatever the thing is. And with that comes an augmentation of the sales process.
Nick Bennett [00:26:32]:
And I think you've definitely found already that people who come inbound, well, they already get it right. They know the point, they know the value you're capable of creating. The hardest part I've found for people is for when they're like, okay, so like, what do you do? And you have to say it in a way that doesn't take you all the way around the world to be able to get them to, to be like, so what does that actually mean? Just to say it in the most concise and compelling way possible. Like, that's really where the hang up is. And if you can nail that question, what do you do? Yep, you're 99 of the time. Yeah, I'd say 99. You're. You're gonna get the next question, which is, how do you do that? And all of a sudden it changes the entire conversation because you're not on, you're not like feeling like you're getting pushed back because you, you're ready for it.
Nick Bennett [00:27:33]:
So this is my soapbox.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:27:34]:
No, no, it's a great soapbox. I'm like leaning in as you're talking. I'm like, yeah, yeah, wait a second. Yes, they agreed that too. Yeah, I think it is because there's like, there's like this interesting, like, languaging exercise, like, especially. And maybe this is applicable for literally everyone, but you have to be able to speak the same language for whatever it is you're solutioning. And for growth or demand roles, demand can be defined like 100 different ways. If you interview 100 people, you get 94 different answers back.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:28:04]:
Like it's insane. They're like, oh well what does demand gen mean? Or what does growth mean? And you're like, well, let me take you on a journey to your point. And what's interesting is that normally you join those calls and somebody has a perception of what you do and how that compares directly to the language that they use inside of their business. And so you need to like use this quick ramp to like learn as quickly as you can about them and how they talk and then actually be able to like regurgitate your solution in their words back to them in real time. And then you get to the next question that hits.
Nick Bennett [00:28:37]:
I felt like you read my mind inside of that conversation and the offer is like the biggest part about it. And so for you, I know this is the hardest part for most solos. How did you go through your iteration cycles to get to what became DemandLoops or what is DemandLoops? Because your offer is the thing.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:28:58]:
But I think it's interesting because I feel like I am still now and likely will forever be iterating to some degree. So when it comes to like service offerings, if we want to break it out that way, right now I do a few different things and I still feel like I'm. I'm a constant like experimenter at heart. Right. Like that is how I do my job well inside of companies is to be an operator and have an experimentation hat on. Yeah. And so I kind of feel like I treat my business that way too. So when I first started out, I was like, okay, I'll have two primary arms to this business.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:29:37]:
I'll do a deep revenue audit, that'll be a faster cycle time for a lower acv. And then I'll do a deeper engagement similar to Elena, where I'm maybe an interim if I could get one, who knows what falls out of the sky. Or I'll do more long term projects, like at least six to nine month projects where I step in, help them rebuild the function or build the function from scratch, from ground up, either way. But I'll have to have them commit to like six to nine months so that I can go deep and be successful versus just like sprinkling in insights like on top of their existing work. That was my two thoughts at first. Well, this like audit process, I went through two of them. Then both of them at the end of the audit came up, did A presentation. Here are my findings of everything that's broken and everything that's going well and everything that you need to accelerate or invest further in inside of your revenue infrastructure.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:30:32]:
Delivered a project plan, basically what I recommend they do in the next nine to 12 months, to go implement fast learnings. And both of them came back and were like, great, we'd like you to do those things for us. And I was like, well, that wasn't, that wasn't on my. That wasn't in my system. You know what I mean? That wasn't in my system. What do you mean? And so I was like, crap. All right, well that's a learning. What do I do if they convert? Like, I don't, I don't have unlimited bandwidth and I don't want to hire people, right? So I need to like, know what you want to do and what you don't want to do.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:31:04]:
I don't want to hire people like for myself. I'm fine to hire people for businesses I'm partnering with, but I don't hire people for myself. So I'm like, great what I do. So I end up converting one to my long term interim gig, which, yes, means I'm now almost operating just like Elena, which is why I wanted in the first place. And then the other, I switched over to an advisory role. So then I've taken on a handful of other advisory roles on top of this interim gig. And then I have substack on the side as like a content engine for myself to fuel learnings and share my learnings with anybody who wants to read them. But I still don't feel like I'm done iterating yet.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:31:40]:
So I think I fell into a plan to like productize and then kind of, I don't know, like fell in love with still some level of deep work, which is how I landed this interim gig. And I just am not ready to give that up yet. Right. You have like a camp of people who are like, productize or bust. Like everything needs to be productized. And I'm still kind of somewhere in the middle where I'm like, I kind of want to have my cake and eat it too. And maybe six months from now we chat again and you're like, what are you doing? And I'm like, oh, productizer bus. But I don't know, you know, it's just like this is what feels good for me right now.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:32:12]:
I really enjoy this interim gig. I love the impact that we're making. Like literally the entire business can feel the momentum from the growth team, which is like all you could ever ask for in a gig. So it's like, can't leave that. Like, that's literally what dreams are made of.
Nick Bennett [00:32:24]:
I have to stay with the work.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:32:26]:
Literally the whole point of what the heck we're doing here during our time on Earth. Then I have these other projects that are short term that fuel me and give me energy that I can ingest learnings from one side of my business to the other and vice versa. And it just feels like a really great natural marriage. So that's where I'm at today. And I kind of fell into all of it. Honestly, as systematized as I might be, I think that I. This is really not exactly how I thought it would play out, but I'm happy with where it's at the risk as.
Nick Bennett [00:32:56]:
Oh my gosh, how do you live with yourself? You write about wanting these like different revenue streams and different revenue options and stuff. And you're, you've, you've just outlined a bunch of them in different ways. Is that what you're referring to when you're saying revenue streams? Like you're monetizing substack in some ways. You have these short term projects that you bring on, you have these longer term.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:33:25]:
Yep.
Nick Bennett [00:33:25]:
Yeah. So you kind of have these three ways of building, of monetizing your life in your brain.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:33:31]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Nick Bennett [00:33:34]:
I feel that.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:33:36]:
Do you also have or like think about revenue streams or structures in that way?
Nick Bennett [00:33:42]:
So I agree with you wholeheartedly that the point of the iterations and the refine of the core offering are never really of all of it, but specifically the core offering will never be done. I am not as diversified yet. I have some goals, things that I want to build, but I don't necessarily have kind of those that three tier thing rolling yet. Mainly because writing doesn't come out of my fingers as well as I think being able to monetize something like substack really relies on your ability to write a lot all the time. So that's one and more so just.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:34:25]:
To like build an audience. Right. Like I think it all starts or like actually right before this, like all of this happens because you can build.
Nick Bennett [00:34:34]:
An audience without a doubt. Without a doubt. I had Erica Schneider on recently and she talked about this idea of the audience battery or something. I think it was something she read, was learned from Jay Clouse. And basically your ability to build an audience is one factor in all of this, which is you can make all these deposits, you can charge the battery, and at some point you need to draw on that. You need to ask or you need to put yourself out there and someone becomes a client, right. That you, you ask for inbounds or you make a, you make an announcement that you're doing your own thing and being able to build an audience and to make all of those goodwill deposits into the. Whatever.
Nick Bennett [00:35:21]:
The Internet takes time. And I think some people just think, well, I can start doing that once I start a business. And I mean, I don't have a massive following by any means whatsoever, but I have been making those deposits for like 18 months or so before I decided to go out on my own. And you've been doing the same even longer. And I think that's really where the momentum came from.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:35:54]:
Yeah, and it's also like, I think that everybody thinks about, like, followers as, like, it has to be like a massive number, but really it doesn't. Like, you do the brass, tax and the math for, like, what it takes for you to be happy and be successful and pay your bills and do the things that it takes to live.
Nick Bennett [00:36:11]:
And 10, 15 clients, right. Like, you don't need the clients in the world. Depending on the company.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:36:16]:
Yes. Depending on the depth and breadth of, like, what you're actually going to be servicing these clients and whatever, you're actually going to be charging them for it. Like, you could survive totally fine off of four clients. So what, you have 200 people that follow you. Those 200 people know 400 more. That's all you need. Right.
Nick Bennett [00:36:37]:
I've been preaching this one a lot lately. You don't need all the clients in the world. And a lot of people I work with come from the tech space and they're just wired in this way. This isn't a bad thing. It's just how people are wired to think. I need all the clients in the world because that was where I just. More, more, more, more. And the reality is you need like 10 or 20 people on earth to trust you enough to give you their money.
Nick Bennett [00:37:04]:
I mean, that's really what it is. You're one person, you know, and you shouldn't have a ton of expenses on that. 10 or 20 people. So, yeah, I'm, I'm totally with you. It's a. Get a core. You don't need a huge audience, but you do need to make an effort to, to make deposits into the bank of goodwill. And that's a huge part of this.
Nick Bennett [00:37:26]:
At least getting inbounds, rolling and really investing in your network in, in the way that you described in your, in your substack post, but I'm going to flip the script back on you. DemandLoops as a thing. Like this concept of DemandLoops feels really good. It's like a very tangible thing. And I'm curious, how did you land just there in general as intellectual property as a thing you were going to do? Because oftentimes people really struggle to get their thing and feel like they found a thing or they created a thing. And without that it was just really hard. So what was. What's your process? What's your system like? What was the thing that went through your brain when you were like, man, this could work.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:38:12]:
I think that my like series or process for trying to figure out what to coin, like not only myself, but like my entity that directly mirrored or reflected what I thought my impact or like legacy would become. Like, when I think about how I hope people explain my impact at Chili Piper or at Brightwheel or at Campaign Monitor or whatever, I hope people like have this legacy about my work or my team's work. Where I've last left been able to leave a lasting loop of some sort. Like everybody's dream in this growth world that we live in is to be able to put. Put a deposit in, to steal your own words, put a deposit in and create a feedback loop to your audience, a feedback loop to your customer base. A demand loop or a growth loop is what it's commonly called in the B2B SaaS world for revenue generation and channel exploration. Like all of it is a loop, right? I think for a long time everybody was like, it's a funnel. Everything's a funnel and everything's a hot take.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:39:20]:
So whatever. It's either a funnel or a loop. You can call it whatever you want, but there is a cyclical. Yeah, what. How many other buzzwords can we get here? So we get like good SEO rankings on the back of this. Everything should be cyclical in your journey, in your impact, in your evolution within a brand, all of those things. So I had spent like several days just thinking about loops, as weird as that sounds. And I'm like, I hope that that's what I leave behind for my in house opportunities, is that I have left them with loops that allow them to continue to build and be successful.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:39:55]:
So anyways, like brass tacks, I went on this weird tyrant of like searches for available URLs for loops. I don't know if it's supposed to be more scientific than that, but there are very few.com Real estate places available these days, particularly when it contains loops. So growth Loops is definitely an existing thing for whatever it's worth. And it's a very well known and coined term. I was like, well, mostly in my career I haven't identified as a growth person. Elena is for sure a growth person and she is much more product focused than I ever have been or ever will be. So I was like, well, I think this is a demand loop, though. Like, I don't think that's a known term within the industry.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:40:33]:
I hope that one day it is. I hope that one day I coin that term and actually create that as like a known program and system. So that was part of my, if I choose this, I need to coin it and I need to start building a long term roadmap to make sure that everybody knows and understands what a growth loop and what a demand loop is. But yeah, and then other than that, it was just like open real estate and it was nine bucks. So that's like the other reality.
Nick Bennett [00:40:57]:
I feel that balance of how many times can I google something and confirm without a doubt that it does not exist and nobody is doing this? Also, there's this other type of meaning to it that means something to me. We all live in this world where we hope that when we leave a company or a role or whatever we're doing that they don't dismantle everything that you have worked so hard on. And while it feels obvious, I have worked really hard on stuff in my career and I've had friends at jobs that I've left behind and they're like, yeah, they, like, after you were gone, they just torched it.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:41:38]:
Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:41:39]:
And brought it back in the exact same way, but just slightly different, but in blue, like, whatever. And you're like, man, all that hard work. So I re, I, I, I respect and appreciate this, this mission you're on of, to leave this thing that people can continue to put their energy into in a positive way.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:42:04]:
Yeah, I think that's a good feeling.
Nick Bennett [00:42:06]:
Right.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:42:06]:
Like, at the end of the day, I think we're mostly all just here to like do good work, meet good people and make real impact. And hopefully that's like the symbol of a loop.
Nick Bennett [00:42:15]:
Whoa. Profound. Gosh. I'm just fascinated by this idea because I can't tell you how hard it is for so many people to come up with their thing that they really feel as if they can plant their flag into it and to build. I'm not a big brand person, but it feels like there's a brand here emerging that can, like you were saying, go on without you at Some point. So, yeah, it's, It's. It's interesting that I wish that I.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:42:45]:
Still had, like, my brainstorming doc. My husband and I sat around the kitchen table for weeks with this really terrible, like, yellow notepad. Just, like, he works in corporate America and like, largely does not understand what I do, but nonetheless was a great spirit. It's for the whole thing. And would write down random ideas and I would write down random ideas and we would come behind each other and like, scratch it out or like, what about this? And it was just kind of like, there. So instead of letting it, like, like, halt my progress on, like, the rest of the business, I was like, I know this part of it will stress me out and it does feel very important. But, like, all the other pieces for me to, like, understand the risk and reward were, I don't know, movable pieces, things I can make progress towards. So I was like, let's just stick this on a sticky and just like, walk around the table every couple days, write down some ideas.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:43:33]:
And, you know, it all started with, like, what do I want to be known for? When you think about building a strategic narrative or a brand story, not that I am like a strategic narrative queen either, right. Like, my lane has firmly been demand. Yes, sometimes, like, brand gen is a thing, but I'm not a brand person either. But when you think about building a strategic narrative for a company or for a brand, it all comes back to ultimately, what do you want to be known for? And I think even if you're, Especially if you're solo, you have something you want to be known for. Whether it's a feeling, an impact, an outcome, a deliverable, an emotion, something you make them feel on the other end after they walk away. Whatever it is, you have a story that's guiding you or pulling you to go out on your own, literally, like, record yourself on, like, an otter or whatever. Your recording solution of choice is just talking to yourself about your story. What do you want to be known for? What type of impact do you want to leave all those types of things? Like, at one point I was trying to explain myself to my husband is like, well, I think I kind of want to be like a hired gun.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:44:38]:
Like, I kind of want to be like, all these companies are, like, in despair and all SaaS companies have something wrong with them. All of them. You can't convince me otherwise. And I kind of want to be like a hired gun, right? Like, I want these people to feel like a moment of panic. Like, oh, we have this huge gap in our infrastructure, who do we look to? Oh, let's, like, plug her in as, like, a hired gun to, like, close the gap. So then we had all these weird naming conventions about that, and then it started to feel dark and strange, and I was like, oh, okay, well, that's not what I'm going for. So, like, let's move away from that column of weird naming conventions and, like, get back to loops. We just kept coming back to loops.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:45:15]:
Like, at one point, we were like, maybe I want to be, like, a martyr of sorts. Like, I come in and, like, kind of bring the rebellion, but, like, create peace on the way out. Like, maybe that's what I want to be. Anyways, we went through a weird series of evolutions before. I was like, actually, it's just a loop. I just want to create a loop. Like, it doesn't have to be all of these, like, feelings, right? I was trying to attach it to, like, feelings at first. I was like, it doesn't have to be that, though.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:45:40]:
It's really just loop. Like, just simple. I want to create real impact that's everlasting, and that's a loop.
Nick Bennett [00:45:46]:
It's, like, funny how you come full circle. I went through the same process going, building my own company, and it wasn't as elaborate with sticky notes and all those things, but it was. I went through all these things, and it was going in all these crazy directions, and I was like, no, it's actually just pretty straightforward, right? You have to go through all of those pro. All of those different things to get to where you're trying to go and not feel like you're. You're going to, like. You're like, I'm not trying to re. Like, reinvent the wheel here, but I'm trying to just make something that matters. You said you alluded to this earlier, which was when you get on calls with clients or prospects, you're like, how do I internalize the words they're saying to me so that I can say them back to you? How many times have people got on calls with you and have been like, we need to create a demand loop? Because that is the most satisfying thing that has ever been, that has ever happened to anyone is when someone uses your words, your language back to you.
Nick Bennett [00:46:41]:
It is. It is indescribable to be like, wow, like, they are paying attention. They really matters. And so what? Like, has that happened to you?
Kaylee Edmondson [00:46:49]:
It's only happened twice. And the first time, I literally laughed out loud because I. It caught me off guard. I was like, oh, that's like a little. It's like a little uncomfortable. Like, oh, okay, we're doing this. This is great. But yeah, a CMO a couple months ago said something about the demand loop to me, which I'd never heard anybody else say.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:47:09]:
And I was like, oh, wait, maybe things are working. It's like a really good signal from the market that, like, they understand, like, what I'm talking about. Yeah. Talking about language. And it was almost like, shocking. And so, like, that moment of shock that I felt, I hope is like, also what people feel when I evoke an impact back to them in their own language too. But it was a good feeling. And then since then, it's happened one other time with a different head of marketing at a different org.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:47:36]:
And I was like, things are happening. It's just like a good moment of, like, awesome. Like, this is starting to work. And it's. It's interesting to understand and, like, synthesize signals for a business. When you launch a new ad campaign, you're like, always looking for signals. What's working, what's not working, etc. It's like a different level of, like, pumped to feel it happening for yourself.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:47:58]:
So anyways, it's a really weird feeling. Yeah. I don't know.
Nick Bennett [00:48:01]:
I just made it up. It literally was nothing. An ad campaign, at least you send an ad, someone sees it and they're like, mask or that. Or they click it and like, whoa, someone clicked the thing. But this is like you said, it's yours. I tell people, creating language and putting words in people's mouths is a part. Is a very. I don't know, it's like, not like delicate, but it's a part of the process that I don't think enough people spend time applying force to.
Nick Bennett [00:48:29]:
And whether it's intentional or not, doing this thing that you're doing and calling it DemandLoops, as you can see, it's like, it's. It's getting. People will adopt that stuff. In my own experience, like, I his hashtag plant your flag on all my posts. I just hashtag it. Leave it there. There's a little flag in my logo. Just leave it there.
Nick Bennett [00:48:48]:
I very rarely say it. If ever I said it to you on this call and I was like, oh, man, did I. Those words just come out of my face. But regardless, I don't even say it. I just hashtag it. People get on calls with me and they're like, we need to plant our flag. And I'm like, whoa, yeah.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:49:07]:
Did you just feeling.
Nick Bennett [00:49:09]:
Yeah, it's crazy. But that's such a. That is one of the strongest market signals you can receive. Without a doubt. And I don't think enough people like us who are trying to build something here, use. Are using that signal. They're like, do good ads. Like, we help you make ads that are good.
Nick Bennett [00:49:28]:
Please. And then people are like, we would love good ads. And they're like, did they say that because of me or did they say that because everyone want like. So it's. It gets weird. So I love that. It makes me. It makes me happy that when people.
Nick Bennett [00:49:42]:
Language stuff. So looking back on these long or short nine months, you and I have been doing this for the same amount of time, which is like, crazy.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:49:51]:
I didn't know that.
Nick Bennett [00:49:52]:
I know. Yeah, there was like this mass migration, like June, July of last year, where so many people just like, ah, now is the time. I don't know what it was, what, what was going on, but I, I found a lot of people that were like, yeah, June, like this. That I was like, cool. We should like have a birthday party for all of us like that, like the solo birthday party host one. And everyone gets together. It'll be fun. Okay.
Nick Bennett [00:50:18]:
So looking back on those months though, what's something you would have done differently?
Kaylee Edmondson [00:50:23]:
Interestingly enough, I. You know, for all of us that are solopreneurs, there's no surprise. It's tax season. Yay. Which has me pulling up and trying to think of like a retro. So in the vein of systems, I just did my own ABR annual business review for myself. And I formed a very informal director, like board of board of directors to help give me critical feedback about myself, about my business, all of those things. But when I was preparing my ABR deck for myself or for anybody that wants to look at it at some point in life, obviously I will be glad to share it with you.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:50:58]:
I love your critical feedback too. I started with red lights, red light, green light. Like a very simple childhood game. Why not? Of things that I felt are going well and things that I think are not going well.
Nick Bennett [00:51:10]:
And.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:51:11]:
Hold on. In the spirit of transparency, for dramatic effect, I'll pull up my red light, green light slide. Can you do screen shares on this? Is that appropriate?
Nick Bennett [00:51:20]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course you can. You can do anything. Yeah. There's no rules.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:51:25]:
You can do anything you want. The world is so what's going well and what's going not so well. I really personally enjoy not having to do biz dev constantly. That's a great.
Nick Bennett [00:51:37]:
It's fair. Most people enjoy not Doing this stuff.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:51:40]:
Yeah, great pro for me is that I enjoy not doing it. Contract lengths are surprisingly longer. I love the clients that I'm actually working with and I've broken up with one client that did not bring me joy. So that's all good things. And then obviously like my audience, despite my inability to show up, consistency consistently has relatively been growing, which is a good sign overall for just extending share of voice. And then all of the red lights, things I think aren't going well or things I would like to do differently in coming quarters. Process documentation and customer wins. Even though you think I'm a great systems person, I think I still need some work.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:52:18]:
So I'd love to get better at documenting everything I'm doing for one client or another client because it'll all come back around. So like one body of work could impact six clients. I do the work one time, six times the impact. Like that's the only way for me to think about systems of scale without hiring humans. And like I said before, I know I don't want to hire humans.
Nick Bennett [00:52:38]:
Just to just a point of clarification, thinking in systems and implementing systems are very different things.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:52:45]:
I appreciate your input. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, good. Then maybe that's my own caveat.
Nick Bennett [00:52:49]:
That's okay.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:52:50]:
But I need to also apply them.
Nick Bennett [00:52:52]:
It's really hard to sit there and make like a process doc. It's like not fun. But being able to think through it in real time is. Yeah. A different skill set. So you're, you're good. You don't have to justify your lack of process documentation to me.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:53:09]:
But here, here we are nonetheless. Now you're like indoctrinated into my. I'm in, I'm in Director. So now we're here for critical feedback. In real, part of building credibility and trust is showing up consistently. So I believe wholeheartedly that I have got to get better at showing up consistently in order to build an ecosystem of trust within my audience. Obviously I would always like to find ways to do more with less in the. You know, that means something negative for companies.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:53:38]:
It means something great. I think for us by committing less hours to the biz and finding scale automation VAs, there are lots of potential solutions there, but VA doesn't count as a hiring a human. That's my own caveat. And then with the templatizing frameworks, short term it would be a time suck. Long term, I really believe that it would result in hours gained overall for the business. And I've just done really, really bad job at Prioritizing that I feel that.
Nick Bennett [00:54:06]:
I feel that wholeheartedly. And also offloading the tedium is not, I think that's, that's a thing that we've. A big limiting belief of being a solopreneur is that you have to do it alone. I'm going to very shortly offload the post production of this show because I'm not a great producer and it takes me like four minutes to edit one minute of this show. I don't have four hours to edit one show and I record like two to three a week. That's my, that's my whole life. I can't do it. So, yeah, don't feel any type of way to offload those types of tasks.
Nick Bennett [00:54:45]:
You don't have to be doing solo. Doesn't mean you have to go alone.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:54:48]:
Agree wholeheartedly. So yeah, I think those are the things I wish that I would have done differently. All presented in red lights.
Nick Bennett [00:54:55]:
And you, you documented it because you're you. Most people are like, whoa, I have never thought about that. So I. Inspiring to say the least. Okay, last thing, last thing for you, last thing because I know it's, it's almost time to run to gymnastics. The children are doing gymnastics just to.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:55:12]:
Make sure everyone's people are gonna leave this thinking, oh wow, she's really athletic.
Nick Bennett [00:55:15]:
Please don't think that they're gonna be like, wow, she's. She does gymnastics. That's like so cool. Where does she find the time? What, what do you want to build that you haven't built yet?
Kaylee Edmondson [00:55:28]:
I think that actually Piper, I had this like interesting opportunity to form a impromptu community of demand gen marketers through a podcast where like I was interviewing and having more conversations like this that like just give you nuggets of gold and give a wide array of people nuggets of gold to take and apply to their own life. And it was like an interesting connection point that I'd never had before. And I loved it. Like it was just such a good feeling to be able to like one. I selfishly felt like I was a voice to give a lot of people like good critical feedback or good insightful help that helps them with their day to day just do their jobs better, live their lives better, whatever that was. And I still think I'm like craving some type of feedback loop with other demand or growth marketers that I just don't have today. And I don't know how that comes to life yet. Like, I haven't cracked that code in this like ecosystem of like streams and systems.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:56:28]:
I don't have a stream or system for that yet. So I think that's still like my biggest thing to build is just to find a way to unlock community. Sounds really gross. Like too many people use that word, but like an ecosystem of friends.
Nick Bennett [00:56:42]:
Do you want an ecosystem of friends who are doing in house, other solos who are doing this type of work?
Kaylee Edmondson [00:56:49]:
I actually want it to be like agnostic of your tax strategy.
Nick Bennett [00:56:55]:
People who do this work. I don't care if you're in an agency, you're in house or you're solo. Just people who do this work.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:57:01]:
Just systems thinkers or non systems thinkers.
Nick Bennett [00:57:06]:
Systems thinkers, community. And then I will not be able to join, but I will admire from outside.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:57:13]:
I want the systems, systems thinkers or non systems thinkers that are employing and operating growth levers for their business. I think that it's like, obviously the thing that I've spent the majority of my career doing is the thing I love and find like joy in talking and riffing with others about like, I still want to build like some type of hub for those people to just like riff and brainstorm and like find and give energy on that type of topic. And I don't know what that looks like yet, but. March gum.
Nick Bennett [00:57:47]:
That's awesome. Well, thanks, Kaylee, for jamming and being vulnerable and sharing all this stuff. I feel like I've known you my whole life. This was likewise. This was so much fun.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:57:58]:
Likewise. This was so good. It was like, honestly, just like two friends catching up, like over at coffee. Even though this is the first time we've met, literally.
Nick Bennett [00:58:06]:
Thank you. Thank you so much, Kaylee. I can't wait. Well, we're going to chat again soon. Somehow I don't know when, but we will.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:58:14]:
Honestly. Thank you for having me. This was a really good conversation.
Nick Bennett [00:58:22]:
Hey Nick, again and thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, you can sign up for the newsletter where I process the insights and stories you hear on this show into frameworks and lessons to help you build a new and different future for your own business. You can sign up at 1000routes.com or check the link in the show notes. What would be your last meal on earth?
Kaylee Edmondson [00:58:52]:
There's this like home style kitchen that's in our really small town that we live in and this grandmother that has worked there, I swear my entire life makes the best soup. And it's like a chicken rice soup combo. Oh my gosh. But every time we go they have like a unlimited soup and salad option. And literally I go to this place just to eat soup and salad, because this soup is so good, and it's like a family recipe, and she won't share what it is. I want her to share the recipe with me so I could, like, pass it to my kids and then just eat as much soup as humanly possible.
Nick Bennett [00:59:25]:
Ooh, I'm with you on the soup. Is there, like, a specific soup?
Kaylee Edmondson [00:59:29]:
It's like a chicken, rice butter, garlic, kind of jam. Like, in a broth situation, you could.
Nick Bennett [00:59:37]:
Combine all of those objects into literally anything. A burrito, a bowl of soup, a pizza. I don't care. You're winning with that combination.
Kaylee Edmondson [00:59:46]:
So that's the. That's my death row meal.