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Welcome to All things… Episcopal where we talk about anything and everything related to the Episcopal church. This podcast was designed with young people ages 18-39 in mind and a place to learn more about The Christian faith with the Episcopal lens.
Welcome to All Things Episcopal, where we talk about anything related to the Episcopal Church
>> Clare: Hello, everyone. Welcome to All Things Episcopal, where we talk about anything and everything related to the Episcopal Church. This podcast was designed with young people in mind and as a space to learn more about the Christian faith with the Episcopal lens. So, in traditionally Episcopalian greeting fashion, the Lord be with you.
>> Clare: Hey, friends. Welcome to All Things Episcopal. Today we're talking All Things Pride Month and Joy and young adults and the life of the Episcopal Church, especially how we understand belonging, dignity, and love. And while we've talked about inclusion of the LGBTQIA community before, we're talking more specifically about why so many dioceses, but especially the Episcopal Diocese of West Missouri, is addressing their participation in Pride Month and their local Pride Fest. I'm joined by several guests today that represent both the laity and the clergy in the church. Tess Lawless, Raja Reed, and the Reverend Robin Risconi.
Welcome to All Things Episcopal, a podcast about the Episcopal Church
Welcome to All Things Episcopal, friends. At its heart, this podcast is designed for young people, and it focuses a great deal on storytelling and Christian formation. And I would love to, more than anything, if you would share a bit about your story, how you ended up in this wonderfully weird and wholly chaotic, uh, church called the Episcopal Church. This band of contrite misfits with incense, potlucks, and oddly specific liturgical colors and fashion. And we'd also love to hear some of your interests. What makes you come alive, and because perfection is boring, please share one glorious. Please note glorious fun fact about yourself. The weirder, the better. All are welcome here. So I'm going to start with Deacon Robin. Welcome back.
>> Clare: Thanks.
>> Clare: Thank you.
>> Clare: Um, Mother Claire. Um, I came to the physical church from the Roman Catholic. My husband and I were looking for a church that we could call home. And it was a very comfortable place. I was drawn by the fact that women on LGBTQ people had a home and, um, were able to participate in liturgy and fully welcomed, um, you know, even as long. You know, far back when I. And so that's actually what drew me in this world church was its. Its stance on being open and affirming and welcoming when we were looking for a church. I don't have any unfun facts. Um, I'm very boring. This is my fifth pride, so I just realized I was doing cat. Yeah, I was counting. So if you want to come see me, you can talk about it. But some. Some pride that. So I have an odd love of standing in a park for entire weekend, so come on down.
>> Clare: Which means you probably carry a lot of sunscreen, I hope.
>> Clare: No, I'm a tent.
Tess came out in college; she's now a trans woman
>> Clare: All right.
>> Clare: I want, you know, I Want a little bit of color?
>> Clare: A little bit of color. All right, tell us something about you.
>> Raja Reed: Hello.
>> Tess Lawless: My name is Tess. My pronouns are she, her. I'm a trans woman. And my background in coming to faith, I grew up in the United Church of Christ, so another affirming, uh, denomination. But I also went to Catholic school from middle school up until my final year of college. That was a very interesting experience because in my church on Sundays, I was getting one experience where I was being told that queerness is okay, queerness is welcomed. But then I would go to my Catholic school, and during my theology classes, sometimes. Sometimes we'd get a very different message. And that created a lot of discord and confusion for me. Obviously, um, at the time, I wasn't. I didn't come out until college. So throughout this whole time, I wasn't out to myself. So I was really. It was a. It was an experience where that discord between the messages I was giving actually created an opportunity for me to learn more about what I believe and who I am and how I feel about myself. And I remember, um, actually going out of my way to look into the issue of whether or not, like, gay and trans people are affirmed in the Bible. And I remember going on long Internet searches looking for the answer, and then realizing that that was something that I needed to interpret for myself. And I. Once I did interpret it for myself, I can remember getting into a lot of arguments in high school with certain teachers, and I think that background that I came from, where I was just knowing that my queerness was something that I had to fight for, something that I had to work towards, that gave me a perspective where when I finally did come out, it was. It. It felt very. I guess you could say, I guess that's what we're doing with. And then I came to the Episcopal Church a few years ago, I think, in. I think around two years ago, I believe, after I had a pretty intense religious experience, after one of my friends experienced a pretty intense tragedy.
>> Clare: I'm really sorry about that. But I'm also really glad that you're here and that you're in a space of spiritual growth in a place that affirms all of who you are and wonderful.
>> Clare: I'm glad.
>> Clare: And Raja, what about you?
>> Raja Reed: Um, my name is Raja Reed. I'm, uh, an old gay man. Um, and I came to the Episcopal Church, actually, from one of our retired clergy. I, um, was driving him because he became unable to drive his father, Bob Hutcherson. Um, he's been a friend of mine for Many years. And he needed, uh, to be driven to St. Mary's to do a Saturday Mass. Um, we used to have mass on Saturdays and then have downtown outreach give. Cook a meal at a pantry. So he, he invited me in, uh, uh, that first Saturday, and then the following Saturday I was cooking in the kitchen. And then the following weekend I was attending St. Mary's and have never left. I was, I was looking for, um, searching for. I've had some tragedies in my life that have, um, left me just kind of on my own alone. And, um, I will tell you, the fun fact about me is that I was raised in many traditions, one being a, uh, nature based religion. My mother practiced witchcraft and my middle name is Pagan, so that's a little fun fact about me. So I have been to. My grandparent. Mother was Roman Catholic and Nazarene. That's a longer story and something we probably share over cocktails. And then my mother was, uh, a practicing. We'll go with nature based religions. Um, so. Which is not a whole lot different than what we do in the Episcopal Church. We honor the elements. And, you know, I carry that with me. Yeah, yeah, that's. That's where we go. That's where I'm at.
>> Clare: We love that so much that you're honoring not only yourself, but also your heritage.
>> Raja Reed: Yeah.
>> Clare: And, and your roots. That's. That's quite spectacular that you were able to do that. I think also I'm a true fan of your name. I think that's really, really cool.
One of the things that we wanted to do with this particular episode of the podcast
One of the things that we wanted to do with this particular episode of the podcast, even though we have addressed inclusivity of, uh, LGBTQIA community before, was specifically addressing the church's involvement with Pride Month and Pride and Fest specifically. So I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about what does Pride Month mean to each of you personally, as both a person of faith and a member of the LGBTQI community, or as an ally. And Raja, if we can start with you and then we'll go with T. Tess and then Deacon Robin.
>> Raja Reed: Uh, thank you. Pride, uh, month for me is both a celebration and a sacred act of remembrance. As a member of the LGBTQIA community, it's a time to honor the courage of those who came before us. People who fought, suffered, and sometimes gave everything so that future generations could live more openly and honestly. Pride reminds me that authentic authenticity is holy work. There is something deeply sacred, uh, about finally being able to stand in the light as a person of God created us to be As a person of faith, Pride Month is also about reconciliation, not only with the church, but with ourselves. For so many of us LGBTQIA people, faith communities have been places of pain, exclusion, or silence. Yet I believe God has never stopped loving or calling LGBTQ people. Pride is a witness that we are not outside of God's grace, that we are a part of the body of Christ, fully and beautifully made in the image of God. And for me personally, Pride is where joy and ministry meet. It's about showing up, uh, publicly as both Christian and lgbtq, once that someone else, especially someone who has been hurt or told they do not belong, can see that there is still a place for them at Christ's table. Pride Month is not only about celebration. It's evangelism through love, hospitality, visibility, and compassion. And ultimately, Pride means hope. Hope that the church can continue growing into a more welcoming and reflection of God's kingdom. Hope that young LGBTQ people will know that they are loved exactly as they are, and hope that our communities can become places where nobody has to choose between their faith and their identity.
>> Clare: So good. I feel like I just went to church, y'. All.
After coming out, Raja had mixed feelings about Pride parades
All right, Tell us about you.
>> Tess Lawless: Well, it's going to be really hard to follow that up, because what Raja said was amazing. But, uh, what I. That what Pride means to me is after coming out, I've. For a while, I had a really sort of cynical opinion on what Pride parades meant, because to me, it. It sort of felt like taking this really beautiful, sacred thing and commercializing it. You know, you go to Pride and you see booths for, like, T Mobile. In some cities, they'll even have booths for, like, weapons manufacturers, which really rubs you the wrong way, like, a lot. So because of that, historically, I've had a really mixed experience on what Pride means to me, but I really had a, uh, sort of coming to Jesus moment of last year during Pride. I participated. I volunteered in the booth for the Diocese of West Missouri. It was wonderful. Something that I realized from that experience, just talking to people, sort of, I guess you could say evangelizing was a lot of people. For a lot of people, this is their only experience with, like, open queerness, openly being lgbtq. And that's really meaningful, regardless of whoever is on whatever committee, whoever is, whatever other boots are there. That is just beautiful and lovely. And also, um, I believe that. Just something I've also realized is there are so many people who are queer who have had negative experiences with church and who don't know that there are churches out there who will Love them, who will support them, who will be there with them, and who will see them as full people, not as, like, sinful or broken. And I remember having experiences talking to people, and they were, like, almost on the verge of tears because they realized, like, I didn't know I could do this. And just those two things alone made me feel so much more positive about Pride. And I am so excited to be able to volunteer this year.
Deacon Robin says Episcopal Church needs to be present during Pride Month
>> Clare: All right, Deacon Robin, what you got?
>> Clare: I come at it as an ally, and I look at it as a celebration. And my perspective is it's incumbent on us as an institution of faith to be present, because churches have done and continue to do a lot of damage to those that are part of, um, uh, the LGBTQIA community. We need to be present and vocal that God loves people just the way they are and that they are perfect in the way that they are created. I, uh, rarely. When I do my day job, which is as a chaplain at a hospital, I rarely wear my collar just because I don't know who I'm going to encounter. And I don't want them to be uncomfortable if their faith background is different than mine. But at Pride, I always wear collared because I want people to come up and ask me questions. And the most frequent question I get is, does God love me and am I love? Or something like, am I lovable? And, you know, the answer is always yes, you know, and so for me, being at Pride Fest and being part of Pride activities, that. That's. That's part of what Pride means. The other piece for Pride is, I think the service is part of reconciliation. You know, before the Episcopal Church came fully out and said, we are all God's children, we made mistakes. And so part of that service is. Is being very forward and saying, here is what we believe. We are all God's children. And we'll talk about it later. But, you know, certain documents that we wrote saying, you know, we are inclusive, we are affirming, you know, Pride Month is our very public statement that this is what we believe. And so, as an ally, I have a unique soapbox, if you want to call it, where I can speak out for people who don't feel safe or maybe won't be heard in a way that they can't. And, um, I will absolutely do that anytime I get a chance. So that's. That's my perspective. Um, but for Pride Month in particular, we are going to be at 3 Pride Fest, where we are sponsors, because our diocese believes that not only should we have a booth but that we should sponsor. Sponsor. Because in the current environment, um, a lot of companies are pulling out and making it hard for this. The people putting on these events to continue and to do these events in the way that they want to. And instead of backing down or backing out, we're actually doing our best to hold firm. And if, uh, you know, if we can't increase our support, keeping it steady so that they know that we're formally supporting them. So we will be in Kansas City, Springfield, and St. Joseph in the month of June. We'll be in Joplin in September when they hold their fest, and we will be in Sedalia in October when they have their signing. Because this is a big diocese, and we want to be, um, everywhere. We know that there are celebrations to let all the communities within our diocese know, um, that God loves all of us.
>> Clare: So good, y'. All. So good.
Episcopalians say pride is about reconciliation; Pride Fest is about joy
I. I want to name a couple of things that. That I heard that I. I think are worth repeating again, that pride is about reconciliation. It's about joy. It's about human flourishing. And to tie it into the foundation of our belief system as Episcopalians. It's about the last two questions in our baptismal covenants. Will you seek and serve Christ in all persons, loving your neighbor as yourself? I will. With God's help. Will you strive for justice and peace among all people and respect the dignity of every human being? And for those that are listening to this episode who are considering attending their local Pride Fest, whether it's in Kansas City or elsewhere, please, please, please go. It's not just about showing up for those that have historically been oppressed and marginalized and told that they don't belong, but it is literally the biggest gathering of people expressing their truest and deepest joy of life. I've literally never been in a space with more joy than Pride Fest, so if you're feeling a little low on your. Your joy tank, please go. It's spectacular. Absolutely, uh, spectacular.
Raja and Tess are leaders in the Episcopal Church's LGBTQ Commission
And then more than that, though, you all are not just participants in Pride Fest, but you're also leaders in the Episcopal Church that are helping move us from the church building out into the community to be part of Pride Fest. So I'm wondering if you all can share, uh, some of your story of how God met you and called you as a leader in the Episcopal Church, whether it's specifically at the intersection of your queer identity or as your identity as an ally. And, Raja, if we can start with you, and then we'll go to Tess and then Deacon Robin, let me tell
>> Raja Reed: you as a leader in the LGBTQ Commission. Uh, my vision is that our diocese not only be visible during Pride Month, but present and encouraged and engaged throughout the entire year. Beyond our presence at the five different Pride events, we also are trying to plan observances for National Coming Out Day. And, um, we all. We do have a Mass for Transgender remembrance in November. More importantly, uh, we want the LGBTQ parishioners and their families to know that we are here as a body of ministry to listen to, support, to help answer questions, to walk alongside them in faith. Looking ahead, we are hoping to create, you know, a monthly LGBTQ gathering and potlucks at different various churches throughout the diocese for fellowship, community, and belonging. And how I really got started, um, in the leadership is that this is my third year involved. And it was Bishop Diane that said, um, hey, hey, we need someone to lead this, this ministry. And I just stepped up and said that I really want to do this as part of my legacy through our church, that this is so important to me and to our community, that I wanted it to. To have a foundation of, you know, being organized and being reliable. And so I answered that call. And, you know, it's really the only. The last couple years that the diocese has really given a lot of money to, uh, help lead this. You know, in the past, it's been the small churches doing their own thing kind of coming together, but with the help of the diocese and the budget item that now we can be sponsors of all these prides, we don't have to worry about asking churches for money. We can be visible with that becomes, you know, you need an organizational body to manage that money and to help facilitate that and, you know, help make Pride Fest the best. Each year it gets, it's getting bigger and better. Um, you know, last year, we had.
>> Tess Lawless: I never.
>> Raja Reed: I've been to a lot of prides in my life across the country. Uh, my first pride was 1980, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And I. I've never seen a leader of a. An established denomination on a float waving at people. And last year, Bishop Amy rode that float in the. In Amongst the Rain. And, um. Uh, and she did it so joyfully and beautifully. And what I. You know, I really started tearing up thinking, you know, this would never have happened in 1985 to have a prominent religious figure, like a bishop of a diocese, uh, welcoming and showing her love and support by riding on a float. I mean, you know, the float is a gay pride. Just icon. You know, uh, people go crazy on these floats. And there she was being smiling and waving, and it was just a beautiful sight. And, you know, this year it'll be the same. She is going to be on a float, and then I hope hundreds of Episcopalians will be marching behind her. Thank you.
>> Clare: I love that you mentioned, um, the importance of visibility, because, um, I was talking with a parent the other day and said, you know, you still deserve, um, enthusiastic mentors, and I think that people in the church deserve enthusiastic clergy. Meet them exactly where they're at and bring good energy, um, to meet people where they're at. So I love that you've had that experience. Raja, Tess, what about you?
>> Tess Lawless: So I'm a little bit of a new leader when it comes to being on the LGBTQ commission in the diocese. I've only. This is my first year, so, uh, I don't have as much experience as Raja, for sure. He's an amazing leader. He does so good. He's amazing. But what I will say, given my experience just being a visible trans woman in my parish and in the, uh, diocese, broadly speaking, is kind of like you mentioned, Mother Claire, that visibility is so integral, so important. I remember. Um, so I'm a person who really loves tradition. I love tradition a lot. When I go to church, I always wear a mantilla, and I am an acolyte at St. Mary's and so, um, I started wearing my veil when I'm doing my duties as an acolyte. And I've had some people come up to me and tell me, like, that it means a lot to them that there's an openly queer woman who is wearing a veil and also doing something that women were not allowed to do, something that, like, certainly not a trans woman was allowed to do when they were growing up. And that was. That really touched my heart. That was so meaningful to me. And I really hope that I can. I hope that in the future, I can come to grow in my leadership and even have a fraction of as much leadership with Raja as Deacon Robin as well.
>> Raja Reed: Thank you.
>> Clare: Thank you for your bravery and courage to follow your truths.
>> Clare: We need more of that.
>> Clare: We do. I came to this. This. Well, I'll start. The way I came to this specific ministry was they needed someone to help with Pride Fest because the person who was at least working with one of the tables for a specific church was also getting ordained right before Pride Fest. And I just said, sure, I'll do it. Um, and that was five years ago, while I was still a layperson. I wasn't even ordained. Um, so I. And I've been doing it since then, um, and there really wasn't even the LGBTQIA plus um, ministry, um, Commission. It wasn't. It didn't exist yet. So. And we didn't have a joint booth yet. It was, um, two churches were side by side, and we kind of cooperated. St. Mary's was one, and then there was another church, and we pseudo cooperated kind of for that weekend. And, um, it was the next year that we had our first, um, Spirit sponsored booth. So a lot has changed since then. So it's. It's been great to see this commission grow and flourish, especially under Raj's leadership. It's. It's been amazing.
>> Clare: Um, one more time for the. Thanks for Raj's leadership.
>> Clare: Um, this work is important to me because growing up in my adult life, I've had people very close to me be very hurt because they weren't able to be who they were. And I saw how the damage that it caused them, and I basically wanted to do what I could to not have people live like that. I want people to be able to live into their truth. And I have children who identify as LGBTQ IA plus, and I will do anything I can to help their lives be better. And this is just part of what I can do for them. Uh, this started in my conviction to stand up and be involved. Started long before I knew I had children in this community.
I'm grateful for your standing up for your kids, bro
Anyway, that's me.
>> Clare: I'm grateful for your. Yes. And as a. As a new parent myself, I'm twice as grateful for your solid standing up for your kids. Um, like I said, my children, I feel the same way. Like, come at me, bro. Come at me.
The Episcopal Church has often spoken about human dignity and inclusion
Um, one of the things that Deacon
>> Clare: Robin,
>> Clare: uh, kind of, um, alluded to earlier in our conversation was, um, the historic documents, uh, in the Episcopal Church about why we do the things that we do and why we take the stances we do. Um, so the Episcopal Church has often spoken about human dignity and inclusion through documents like To Set Our Hope on Christ. A. Ah, response to the invitation of Windsor Report 135. I'm curious for you all, how has that theological work shaped conversation around LGBT Q+ inclusion in the church? Raja, if we can start with you, and then we'll go to Tess and then Deacon Robin.
>> Clare: Okay.
>> Raja Reed: Um, I think documents Like To Set Our Hope on Christ help move the conversation from abstract debate to recognizing the real lives and dignity of LGBTQI UM plus people within the church. They challenge the church to listen deeply to stories, faith and witness of the LGBTQ Christians, not simply talk about them. That theological Work has helped shape a broader understanding that inclusion is not about abandoning tradition, but about living more fully into the gospel. Called to honor the dignity of every human being, it opens space for honest conversation, pastoral care, and greater participation of the LGBTQ people in the life and leadership of the church. And I think it also reminded us that theology is not only written in documents, but lived out in communities. And how we welcome people, how we worship together, and how we reflect Christ's love in the world.
>> Clare: So good.
>> Clare: What about you, Tess?
>> Tess Lawless: Perfect. So for me, I actually, it's been a while since I've looked through that document. I haven't read it in full yet. I've only skimmed over it in the past, but I'm aware of its impact on the Episcopal Church, broadly speaking. And I think that just having having a major denomination come out right and say that queer people have a place in the church is incredibly meaningful. And it was, it got the ball rolling on a lot of important things that needed to happen. And I'm really thankful for that.
>> Clare: For me, I think the fact that it is, besides what Raja said, I think the fact that it affirmed that there was really no position in the Episcopal Church that a, uh, person that was part of a same sex marriage couldn't hold, let us know that when, when we speak as a church and we say we are open and affirming and inclusive, that we mean that we're open and affirming and inclusive. And that's, that's the same thing we say when women are bishops. And to have those kinds of written documents are important for discussion, they're important for, for intellectual reasons, but they're more important because it's one thing to say something, it's another thing to have it in writing. Uh, my background is law, and putting something in writing is more permanent. And it's a firm statement that this is where you're coming from, this is what you mean, this is what you believe. And when they gave that very firm, very clear statement and put it out in response, it showed not just the United States, but the world that theologically this is where we are. And that's why it's important. It's important today because it still stands as a, um, you know, a key document of the Episcopal Church.
>> Clare: I so agree with everything that you all have said that. And it has nothing to do with, um, affirming for affirming sake, but has everything to do with the fact that you are made in the image of God and that you are fearfully and wonderfully made. And that Nowhere that you go does that love disappear. And, um.
>> Clare: And to me, I think it's just really important that. That there isn't a position or a role that you're limited from. You know, because when you can't be something you want to be, then that tells you that you're less than. And the fact that there. That there isn't one tells you that you're not. It tells you that you are perfect the way you are. So I think that that's probably the most important part of that document is, is that it tells you just what you said, Claire, that we're all made in God's image.
>> Clare: And to your point, Deacon Robin, the. The permanence of putting words down, and that being part of our history and ultimately our tradition helps us move beyond just this is the way things are. It's practicing becoming who we are.
How can Episcopal churches move beyond simply saying all are welcome toward deeper practices of belonging
Which leads us to a really, really important question that I think we need to ask as. As a church, which is how can Episcopal churches move beyond simply saying all are welcome toward deeper practices of belonging and mutual relationship for human flourishing? So if. If we can start with Raja and then again, kind of go down the line with Tess and then Deacon Robin,
>> Raja Reed: Um, I think saying all are welcome is an important beginning, but people also need to know that they truly belong, that their presence, their gifts, and their stories matter in the life of the church. Belonging happens when LGBTQ people are not simply invited into the pews, but are fully included in leadership, ministry, worship, and community life. That also means building real relationships. It means listening to people's experience, learning from one another, showing up for each other in moments of joy and pain, and creating spaces where people can be authentic without fear. The church moves deeper into belonging when inclusion becomes a part of everyday parish life. Not just a statement on a website, but something lived out through fellowship, pastoral care, shared ministry, and genuine community. That's really the vision. Not simply hospitality, but relationship.
>> Clare: I. I'm just loving everything about this episode, y'.
>> Tess Lawless: All.
>> Clare: I feel like I'm, um. I'm getting, like, some of the best sermons, like, little mini sermons. All right, Tess, what you got?
>> Tess Lawless: Yes. So I think that I would agree with what Waja said, but I also want to add on to that. Of course, I think that in the Episcopal Church, we're not done yet when it comes to making ourselves a more, uh, inviting, loving, truly present, truly affirming environment. There's never a point where we're going to be done, because it's about the process of coming towards that, coming towards, I guess, I'm comparing this to sanctification, but I think that, um, of course we still have some parishes that are not as there as we would hope them to be. And that's certainly something we need to work through, we need to address. And of course we can't. I think that we can't get into the mindset that, oh, we're the good ones. We can just say, all are welcome and then they're going to show up and it's going to be awesome and great. Because complacency is the enemy of solidarity. We want to have true solidarity with queer people. As a church that's made up of not queer and non queer people, we need to have a true love loving bond between all. I think that when we sort of see queer acceptance as just opening our arms and doing nothing else, we're really not understanding the full picture of what that ought to look like. Because the way that we accept queer people is through actively integrating the queer people into the body of Christ, not by seeing the queer people as this hurt other that is out there that is not me, that, oh, I need to give charity towards this person deserves my charity. I will charitably let this trans woman come to my church. I will charitably let this gay man get married at my church. No, these are people who are just as entitled to being a part of the body of Christ, to the sacraments, to ordination, to, like Robin said, like, there's no position in the church that being queer does not bar you from any position in the church. And that's wonderful and beautiful on paper. And we need to make sure that socially, that de facto, in reality, that is lived out in our church. I also think that, um, there's also a lot of other sort of phrases that we use, like, at least I'm just speaking broadly in the mainline Protestant tradition because I also have a lot of experience in the UCC church. A lot of people will say things like, oh, listen to queer people, listen to LGBTQ people. But we need to ask ourselves, which queer people are we listening to? Um, like, are we listening to the working class black trans woman? Are we with. Are we listening to the wealthy gay man who lives in a nice house? Are we listening to the middle class lesbian? Who are we listening to? Because at the end of the day, uh, there's no one platitude that's going to cover all situations. And we need to understand three people on an individual basis. Basis. And we need to have a robust analysis of what's going on in queer Communities. We also. I hope this isn't too long of an answer, but we also need to acknowledge what's going on in the world when it comes to queer lives, queer people. There's a lot that's going on. And of course, I know we are not in the business of telling people who they ought to vote for or what they ought to vote for, but as a church community, we need to be on. We need to be, um, cognizant of what's going on in the world. We need to understand the policies that are affecting our parishioners, especially our career parishioners, who are more vulnerable, because when they come into the pews, they're bringing all of that they've experienced when they're hearing about these bills that are affecting their lives, that are going to make things harder for them, that are going to bar them from medications, that are making it to where they can't teach their students about themselves. You know, these are things that they're going to bring into the pews with them. And when they're listening to our sermons, when they're receiving the body and blood of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, they're going to have this on their mind. And if we're not bringing relevant messages about the world and about the things that are affecting them towards them in the church, then are we really, truly welcoming those queer people? This isn't to accuse anybody. This is more so just.
>> Raja Reed: This is.
>> Tess Lawless: This is my opinion.
>> Clare: Uh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Like all the prank fans. Yes to what you're saying. And I think that that's some of the work that the church has to do, both laity and clergy, particularly as it pertains to the theologians that we read and the writings that are put in front of seminarians. Or, uh, is it a bunch of old dead white guys that we're reading? Or is it like a more diverse representation of the body of Christ, um, so we can meet all of God's children with a robust theological, um, like, knowledge base. Um, and it's not just coming from one perspective.
>> Tess Lawless: And additionally, Mother Claire, if you don't mind me adding, I am so sorry, please do. But I also think that we. Of course, I also think we should have a diverse representation of different theologians that we're reading. But I also think that we need to have an understanding of different ways we can read those traditional theologians and different sort of ways we can see queerness in those texts, because those texts are not devoid of things that are meaningful or relevant to queer life. Like, I think Raja said this earlier, but integrating queerness into the church doesn't mean we're neglecting our traditions. In fact, it enriches our traditions. Because the resurrection. You think about the resurrection and the passion of Christ, there's so much in there that is relevant. I could go about this for so long, but I will spare everyone. But there's so much in that that's relevant to trans life. There's so much that's relevant to. To gay life. There's so much in that suffering that our Lord, that our Lord experienced. He took on all that for us. He experienced. If you truly believe in Christianity, that means you believe that Jesus Christ felt the suffering of all queer and trans people when he died on the cross and he rose from that. That means something for us. That means that when we're experiencing discrimination, that means that we can fight through that. That is not the end. It is never going to be the end. We are going to get through to other side.
Claire: How can Episcopal churches be welcoming? You?
And I want to tell anyone who is listening, who is afraid, who is scared that it is not over, that it is not over. Jesus rose on the third day, and that that means something. I hope I'm not rambling.
>> Clare: No, you're doing great.
>> Clare: You're doing great. Keep going. Keep going.
>> Clare: Cash, you're killed. You're doing intense.
>> Tess Lawless: Thank you.
>> Clare: So glad that you said that.
>> Tess Lawless: So there's a reason why. And to continue, there's a reason why. Um, I think in the Book of Occasional Services, the renaming service is suggested for transfiguration. Not just because the name is funny, because trans figuration, transgender, but also because, like, that event is very meaningful to trans people. You can read that as Jesus Christ showing his true self to the people he loves the most. And that's something that trans people do when we come out. We're showing our true selves to everyone around us. And that can be really vulnerable and scary.
>> Clare: Um, well, and I think it's so important that for people to have that renaming service, because having a trans woman in my life very close to me, she is so much happier and much so. It's just. It's like the person that I live with now is growing into a woman that I would never have known she could be if. If she had not realized who she is. And, um, I thank God every day that she told us, and we've been able to be on this journey with her, and it would be awesome to be. To have that service for her someday when she wants it. And I'm grateful that that service exists, because I Know that it will mean everything to her that day. So, um, what was the question, Claire? I just got totally distracted thinking of my child.
>> Clare: The question was, how can Episcopal churches be welcoming?
>> Clare: You?
>> Clare: Uh, know, I think move beyond simply welcoming.
>> Clare: Well, and I think the thing is you need to look around and like Tess and Raja have said, you know, are not. Are you only just saying, hi, welcome to my church on Sunday? It's, you know, are they engaged latess? You know, are they like my. My child? You know, are they, Are they serving? Are they sitting alone by themselves at a table or with, like, people? Or are they integrated? You know, are, you know, are, ah, people mixing with them? Are you inviting them to lunch afterwards? Are, you know, are they really truly part of the community or is the idea of welcome, you're allowed in our building and isn't that nice of us? You know, I mean, I think that's the first step. But the real, the real step is are they really part of the community and are we honoring their gifts? Are we finding out what matters to them? You know, are we as, uh, the church like Tess, as I also said, are we hearing their needs address, you know, engaging with concerns? As a deacon, my role is to bring the concerns of the world back to the church. That's what I am charged to do as part of my vows. Mhm. So it's especially on me to listen and, and pay attention to these things. And so, you know, as a church, are we listening and are we paying attention? Are we engaging and are we including? And so I think that those are the things that we can do as a church, besides saying, God loves you and you're perfect the way you are. Are we actually doing it as opposed to just saying, Yeah, I think that's
>> Clare: one of the things that I think the church needs to be a little bit better at. Uh, is not just a little bit better at. A lot better at, but to take it so far to one, know who your people are.
>> Clare: Mhm.
>> Clare: And see the gifts that they have. And three, tell them that you see the gifts and then invite them to use it for the glory of God. Because that's the church that I don't know about y', all, but that's church I want to be a part of.
>> Raja Reed: Amen.
What practical ways people can get involved during Pride Month and throughout the year
>> Clare: Um, and so I'm really, really thankful that you all touched on that, that really important element of practical connection, engagement, because I want to specifically hone in on the engagement of Pride Month. So what are some practical ways members of our diocese and perhaps other people, like, outside of The Diocese of West Missouri might consider both as lay people and clergy to get involved during Pride Month and throughout the year. Like, what are some of those practical ways that we should be considering?
>> Clare: Well, at this point we are gearing up for all the Pride Fests. Um, yay. So we need volunteers. We need a lot of volunteers. Um, and there are events you can join so you can go to the diocesan website. I always get things out of order. Raja, is it Pride Church or Church
>> Tess Lawless: Pride Pride Church, Pride Church, um, or
>> Clare: the Diocese of West Missouri website. And you can sign up. There's a sign up genius, to volunteer for Pride Fest, which in Kansas City, which is June 5th, 6th and 7th, or for Springfield is June the next weekend, the next Saturday,
>> Raja Reed: 13th. The 13th.
>> Clare: The 13th. And they need volunteers for their table down there. There is a Pride Mass at 9:00 clock on the 6th at St. Paul's Church, 40th in Maine. Um, and then right after that there is the Pride Parade, which one of these days I will see Einwakin, but I'm in a park and waiting for everybody to come m visit me. And there is a pre Pride Prep party at St. Paul's on the 4th that starts at 5:30 where we will be doing all things Pride Prep. There'll be pizza and refreshments and we'll be making posters and making all sorts of things for uh, both the Pride Fest and the parade and people are invited to all those events. And then there is St. Joe Pride, which is the 26th and 27th, I believe in St. Joe. And there will be a sign up genius that will go up uh, within the next week. And that is both Friday night from 2 to 9. Um, we'll need volunteers for that. And Saturday there is a parade that starts at 2 and then which is just through the park where the um, which is how Springfield is there. There's a parade right before, um, at 2:00 on Saturday. And then we will have a table there from 2 to 9 on Saturday. So those are some of the things you can do to volunteer. And then we will have, there's, there's the Trans, um, Day of remembrance, which is November 20th. November 20th. And then as Raja said, we are looking at having a coming out day which would be October 11th. And we're settling in on a day for that. October 10th. The day before is when the Sedalia um, event is for Pride. And then there will be stuff for Joplin the 5th and 6th of September. So there's a lot coming up. And once we start Kicking off the, um, potlucks. You can join those and just keep your eyes out for diocesan announcements, and everyone is welcome. Raja, did I miss anything?
>> Raja Reed: No. The only thing I know. It was wonderful. Would like to, you know, when you ask what can people do, you know, the biggest thing people can do, the easiest thing people can do is to show up, is to show up to these events, show your whatever, whether you're an LGBTQ member or an ally. And we need, you know, I said earlier about how moving it was to see a bishop, but, you know, it's just as equally as moving to go into a booth and see someone wearing a collar. And because, you know, the general public wouldn't really know they see a collar, and they just think you're a religious authority, some authority figure in the church. You know, uh, it doesn't matter if you're a deacon or a priest, but to see that person behind that table willing to talk to you and willing to listen to you and answer your questions, and it's as simple as just showing up. Wear your pride colors. Mother Claire, you said it so beautifully. It is a joyful experience. It's all about celebration of who and what the LGBT community are and where we're going. And in these trying times that with, um, rights being revoked and the threat of rights being revoked, I mean, we need to show the world that, you know, you know, you know, the old, you know, like I said before, I'm a gay man, when it was just lgbt, all the new letter. You know, I'm old school gay, and we're, um, out and proud. You know, it's a big motto. It is. It's just to come out and show your support and spread the love of Christ to everybody. I just think that goes so far in not just the LGBT community, but in the world as a general, that, you know, the world needs love, the world needs hope. And, um, this is a good place to start, especially our youth. Any. I mean, there are young gays in our parishes, and they might not be out yet. We want them to feel safe, and if they can't come out to their parents, you know, there is a commission, a ministry here that can help them or be a mediator for them or whatever they want. Um, but, you know, it comes to just showing up.
>> Clare: And one thing I forgot to mention is we really, really need people to either host or make friendship bracelets. So we're willing to go anywhere. Well, not anywhere, but where we would love to have people host friendship breaks, uh, making parties, because we give out A ton of them during Pride. Both is part of the parade and a lot at Pride Fest, they're hugely popular. You know, a lot of times they just say things like, you are loved, or Claire's got something in her hand.
>> Tess Lawless: Ooh, look at that.
>> Clare: It's the.
>> Raja Reed: That's it.
>> Tess Lawless: It's a very lovely friendship bracelet making flyer.
Deacon Robin says it's important to have clergy present at Pride Fest
>> Clare: Yes, it is. And we are desperate for those because I cannot tell you how popular they are. And we have a, uh, Plinko game, and that's one of the prizes you can win.
>> Tess Lawless: Um, and I will say we got some more coming. Oh, I'm so sorry.
>> Clare: That's. Oh, it's okay. That's one of the things that draws people to our booths, that we can engage them to talk because, you know, people love playing, but it's really important that we draw people. And again, I can't emphasize enough how it's important to have clergy present. Last year I had, um, a really meaningful encounter with a younger person who I think saw my caller and saw me as safe, and they needed somebody at that point, and I was able to provide them a safe space when they needed it the most. And I honestly think that the thing that drew them to me was my collar that will stay with me probably forever. And I was grateful to be at the right place at the right time for that individual.
>> Clare: Yeah, I had a similar experience recently. Uh, Deacon Robin, most of our listeners know that I also serve as, uh, a, uh, campus minister at Kansas State University, uh, in Manhattan, Kansas. And they had their Pride Fest, um, almost, um, a month ago. Exactly. Um, the campus ministry table shared their space with the local Episcopal parish. And I was one of three clergy, all of which. We were women. And I, um, was the youngest. The youngest one there. And I was wearing a bright pink. Pink shirt with my collar on. And it had the progressive, uh, Episcopal shield, like, on. On my T shirt. And I was wearing. I'm pretty sure I was wearing my glitter sneakers. That. That sounds on brand for me.
>> Clare: Um, I love your glitter. I love your glitter sneakers.
>> Clare: Thank you. And the amount of middle schooler kids that came up to our table and literally said to me, what are you exactly? And I said, hi, I'm Mother Claire. I'm. I'm the campus minister, um, for the Episcopal students here at Kansas State University. And they kind of looked at me like a deer in the headlights. And I said, are you okay? Can I help you? And they're like, you work for the church? And I said, yes. And they're like, you're like, the only people here from the church right now. It's like you and one other group. It's okay that I have faith. And I said, of course it's okay. It's more than okay. God loves that you have faith and, you know, let's talk about it if you want to. Just being that. That visible person. Ready. Ready to receive someone's experience and just reflect back to them.
>> Clare: You're beloved. Yeah, yeah.
>> Tess Lawless: Yes. And those conversations are so, uh, beautifully moving. I love having those conversations with people when you're tabling. And that's why we want you to come table for us, because it's going to be wonderful. You're going to have so many conversations with people. I know you're all very excited. Ah, yes, I am very excited. If you can't tell.
>> Clare: Well, and it's so us. I love the ones that come up to me and say things like, you're wearing a collar. You look like you're in charge. And I'm like, okay, what do you, what do you want? How can I help you? Like, I may not actually be in charge right now, but what can, what can I do for you? But, you know, we're, we're just here. It's. It's just important to be present. Yeah. Um, that's all I can say. And the more people we have, the better. So if the sign up genius is full, I'm, um, anyway, because the more people we have present, the more people we can engage. And that's what all these weekends are about, is engaging people so that they know God loves them.
>> Clare: Amen. Amen.
As we celebrate Pride Month, where do you see hope for LGBT plus inclusion
So I have one more question, and then with all of our guests, we have a teeny, tiny rapid fire question. They won't hopefully be harmful or cause too much angst. The final question is, and we've kind of already touched on this, the final question is, as we celebrate Pride Month, where do you see hope for the future of the Episcopal Church and the LGBT plus inclusion? Uh, anyone can respond.
>> Tess Lawless: I think why I see hope in the Episcopal Church when it comes to inclusion. I see that a lot with. And I guess I'm biased because I would count myself among these people. Like, just seeing how many young. Seeing that there are, like some more younger people who are becoming interested in, like, feeling like they're, they're queer, they want to go back to church, but they want something with a deep rooted tradition. They don't want something that's contemporary. They don't want something that's, um, just ahistorical. They want to go back to the Christian Church's roots. They want something with liturgical weight to it, and I think that's what gives me hope for the Episcopal Church.
>> Raja Reed: For me, that what gives me hope, I, you know, kind of skim around and see what other diocese are doing about lgbtq. I look at lots of website, and I'm surprised to find that, you know, they're not listed on their diocese website. Ours is quite prominent and quite packed full of information on what we believe, not just about what happens at Pride, but, you know, um, I think one of the questions is, you know, does God hate you? Absolutely. You know, we answer those questions absolutely. God does not hate us. And I'm hopeful that with us being consistent and supporting LGBTQ parishioners and community as a whole, that we will continue to get more and more diocese across the country to do similar things that we are. I mean, I'm really grateful to our diocese, to our leadership. The money they give us is not, you know, a small amount of money, and the fact that they use that resource to support our community and our parishioners in our community just means so much. And I hopefully, I'm hopeful that we continue this tradition, and it keeps getting bigger, and more and more parishes are joining in and, um, not being afraid of welcoming. You know, we're not scary people, and to be more welcoming and so we wouldn't have to have these conversations in the future, you know, the Episcopal Church will be this beacon and leader, um, for our community.
>> Tess Lawless: That's, if you don't mind me interjecting, that's a beautiful part of the Diocese of West Missouri's Christian Witness, is how deeply supportive we are of queer people. I love that about us. But also, I am a little bit scary. I will say,
>> Clare: well, Tess, this is the first time I've met you, and I think you're fabulous.
>> Tess Lawless: Thank you.
>> Clare: Yeah.
>> Clare: I am waiting to see the scary part. Tess, I've been around you multiple times, and I just, um. I see hope partly because of what Tess said. I see. See younger faces in a lot of the churches that I visited, and not only are they there, but they seem integrated. You know, we were talking earlier about what the church can do to welcome lgbtq, um, IA plus people, and I see so much engagement, and to me, that's hope, you know, that, you know, I'm older, and I remember when, you know, people were shoved to corners or maybe, you know, categorized and not. Not included. And, uh, and just the amount of engagement is huge. And to me, that's. That's the Important part, because as we all know, when people are recognized for their. For their skills and their passion, and they stay and they found their people and their community. And I think that that, to me, is hopeful, but I will also echo that. The support that we get from the leadership of the diocese that we've had from our last two bishops, Bishop Diane and Bishop Amy, has been overwhelming, you know, and we have been able, you know, under, with Raj's leadership and everything, to grow this committee and grow what we can do in public to really, um, you know, show our support and welcome more people. Um, our theme this year with our fabulous coach, our fabulous float leadership, and our parade leadership is where your biggest fan. And it's going to be unbelievable.
>> Raja Reed: It is. It's going to be incredible. And the vision is on the float and.
>> Clare: And. But it's going to be a big fan. We're going to have a big fan at the booth. But you don't do that without having leadership in your diocese and. And having that. And that starts from the top down, and we're just lucky. And that's. Those are the kinds of things that give me hope. You know, we're in a state that is red as red can be in a lot of places. And, you know, in a lot of ways, we're swimming upstream. And to have the support we have and the growth that we have, and, you know, we're blessed, I mean, to be able to say we're going all over the state because we really do have representation, I mean, north and south, and to be able to be in those places and. And, you know, we are an open and affirming, you know, church. It's. It's a blessing.
>> Clare: For the last several years, I've missed Pride Fest because I've been at camp, but in a, uh, similar, yet different avenue. I think it would be like. I would be remiss if I didn't share this part. So our partners in this podcast, All Things Episode podcast, is the Diocese of Kansas, of which I am a part of. They hold a camp the first week of June every year. What's really special, I mean, there are many things that are special about this camp, but one of the things that is particularly special about Mega Camp is that in the senior high division, so that's 9th grade through completed 12th grade, there is one cabin that is designated for. For all gender.
>> Clare: That's cool. Yeah.
>> Clare: And so when I hear you all talking about creating spaces for these young people to be safe and healthy and explore their identity and who they are in Healthy ways. I think of Cam.
>> Clare: That's cool.
>> Clare: And the fact that it's a faith based camp, creating a space such as that, that to me is one of the most hopeful things and practical things that we can do as a church. To not only say you are a beloved child of God, not because of these things that your identity is, but simply because you are, is just so cool. So while you all are at Pride Festival, I'm going to be joyfully, like, cheering those kids on at camp, um, and, you know, just celebrating all of their joy and who they are.
>> Clare: You can still come see me on Sunday.
>> Clare: That's assuming that I'm, like, able to keep my eyes open still after being at a camp with like 200 kids.
>> Clare: Just saying.
>> Clare: I mean, joy does keep us moving forward, right? It's an act of resistance.
Everyone has to respond one at a time in rapid fire
Okay, so before we close out, as with all of our guests, we have a final segment. And this is a rapid fire, so it's whatever first comes to your mind. I hope it won't cause too much anxiety. Are we ready? Everyone has to respond one at a time.
>> Raja Reed: Okay.
>> Clare: Okay, so we're going to go in reverse order. We're going to go Deacon Robin, Tess, and then Raja. Okay, got it.
>> Raja Reed: Perfect.
Would you rather Easter vigil or Christmas Eve service? Christmas Eve. Um, Easter vigil. Favorite part of the liturgy
>> Clare: Okay, first question. High church or low church?
>> Clare: High church.
>> Tess Lawless: Extremely high churched.
>> Raja Reed: Absolutely high church.
>> Clare: Favorite part of the liturgy?
>> Clare: Eucharist.
>> Tess Lawless: I like the Eucharistic prayer, specifically. The right one.
>> Raja Reed: I agree, uh, with Cassie. Eucharistic prayer, right.
>> Tess Lawless: 1.
>> Clare: Scripture tradition or reason? Pick one. Scripture, tradition, tradition, vestment, color you vibe with most M. Purple.
>> Tess Lawless: I like the pink and I'm calling it pink Purple.
>> Raja Reed: Oh, the best. Yeah. Bestseller. I like red.
>> Clare: You're in luck. Sunday.
>> Raja Reed: Yeah.
>> Clare: Would you rather Easter vigil or Christmas Eve service?
>> Clare: Christmas Eve.
>> Tess Lawless: That is a good question. I'm gonna say Easter vigil.
>> Raja Reed: I'm gonna say, uh, gosh. Um, Easter vigil.
>> Clare: Church potluck.
>> Clare: Must have deviled eggs, Steak, potato, speak.
>> Raja Reed: Potatoes.
>> Tess Lawless: What?
>> Clare: You got one?
>> Raja Reed: Um, I will say, uh, I will say my famous Raj's funeral potatoes is a must have at potluck.
>> Clare: The last several episodes, we've all gotten, like, deviled eggs and funeral potatoes. I feel like I'm missing out on life. People.
>> Clare: You gotta have. And you need to have my youngest daughter's deviled eggs because she's like, killer.
>> Clare: Really?
>> Clare: Okay.
>> Raja Reed: Yeah.
>> Clare: She made m. She. She's a chef and she's got devil down.
>> Raja Reed: Was there a Bishop Diane that hated devil eggs?
>> Clare: Oh, she does. She hates. Yeah. Diane does not appreciate him, but Bishop Amy does different for different folks.
>> Clare: So I guess different forms of eggs for different folks.
>> Clare: Yeah. Yeah.
>> Clare: All right.
>> Clare: Once Snow had to make, like, I don't know, four half she sheets of deviled eggs for Mother's Day. She nailed that. Whoa.
>> Tess Lawless: She's my.
>> Clare: Wow. All right. More power, too.
Mother Claire welcomes listeners to All Things Episcopal Podcast
Well, friends, thank you so much for coming on All Things Episcopal and sharing your stories and your joy and theology. Gosh, I feel like I've gone to church and it's not even Sunday. It's fantastic.
>> Raja Reed: Thank you, Mother Claire, for hosting this. It's. It's really meaningful, really meaningful to especially of our community and the diocese and all Christianity as a whole.
>> Clare: Yeah. Uh, thank you for having us.
>> Raja Reed: Yeah.
>> Clare: The joy and a privilege. Joy and a privilege. Well, friends, go in peace to love and serve the Lord.
>> Raja Reed: Thanks be to God.
>> Clare: Hey, friends, thanks for listening. Please like and subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. To learn more about all things Episcopal on the Diocese of West Missouri's communication Pages, please visit dio westmo.org podcasts
>> Clare: and
>> Clare: in the Diocese of Kansas, please visit edokformation.WordPress.com All Things Episcopal Podcast All Things Episcopal Podcast is a production of the Diocese of West Missouri and the Diocese of Kansas in association with Resonant Media.
>> Clare: Sa.