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💥 Ignite your company culture with the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast!
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Announcer: [00:00:00] This is the Build A Vibrant Culture Podcast. Your source for the strategies, systems, and smarts you need to turn possibility into purpose. Every week we dive into dynamic conversations as our host, Nicole Greer, interviews leadership and business experts. They're here to shed light on practical solutions to the challenges of personal and professional development. Now, here's your host, a professional speaker, coach and consultant, Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Welcome everybody to the Build A Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and they call me The Vibrant Coach. And again, I know I've got an incredible guest today. It is Dr. Carrie Graham. She is an adult learning strategist-- we're gonna find out what that is --and a training consultant who helps businesses improve employee engagement and learning, [00:01:00] information retention and long-term skills application. She helps them do this by developing a customized learning journey for employees and clients. She collaborates with executives to establish strategies that improve employee training outcomes, offering immediate solutions and 50%, Hey, don't miss that 50% long-term improvement. We are so pleased to have you here and I get to call her Carrie. Hello Carrie. How are you?
Carrie Graham: Hi, Nicole. Hi Nicole, and Hi, the Vibrant community. I am absolutely honored and excited to be here, and most importantly, I'm just literally on the edge of my seat to see where our conversation is gonna go today.
Nicole Greer: Oh, that's so cool because, you know, uh, Carrie and I we're really like, you know, we have these darling personalities, but um, we're like super nerdy. We both love learning. So, so were you one of these [00:02:00] gals in school like that got her trapper keeper and like couldn't wait to go to the Target and get her brand new pencils and erasers? And you would like put it all together the night before school? Was that you? That was me.
Carrie Graham: Okay. I am gonna tell the truth. I'm am at a stage in life. I believe in being honest. Okay. Uh, and I'm gonna tell on myself. So as a kid, I, yes. I would get super excited about the pencils and the pens. I went to Catholic school, so it was like I got a new uniform for the year. I got new shoes and socks, like there wasn't much more to do, right? Like shoes and socks, but I wasn't a good student.
Nicole Greer: What?!
Carrie Graham: Like I wasn't, I was not the, I was a very average student. I like, I loved learning. I loved to look at the encyclopedias for those of us who were old [00:03:00] enough to remember, I would look up words in the dictionary like I loved learning, but it was that pressure of performing that I would just break every time. I would break every single time. So I wa I was a very average student. Um, and I grew into, you know, all of it like, like most of us do. But that's a little secret about me, uh, Nicole, and, and all who are listening, please don't tell that publicly, like, just don't let that secret out. Please don't.
Nicole Greer: Well, I, I think it's, first of all, don't miss that she is displaying, one of the things that I, I think is so essential for a vibrant culture is that we practice this thing called truth telling, honesty and candor.
Carrie Graham: Mm-hmm.
Nicole Greer: Right. And here's the other thing she's also displaying, like right outta the gate because she's a superstar, is that, um, you know, you, you can change.
Carrie Graham: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Nicole Greer: People can change, people. Yes. So don't miss that. You [00:04:00] know, really didn't like learning. Mm-hmm. Uh, in terms of, you know, competing. But now she's out there, she's an entrepreneur, she's making it happen. Um, so people can gain these, uh, desires. And they turn into skills, or the skills turn into a desire, whichever way it goes. So fantastic. All right. So I wanna know, um, we're collecting definitions of leadership, so right out of the gate, um, what is your definition of a leader?
Carrie Graham: Absolutely. My definition of leader starts with behavior. Not the role, not the position, but it's truly, leadership is about effective behavior. You know, if we look at Webster or Miriam, Miriam Webster, the dictionary, you know, that term of what a leader is. In my opinion, it's all about the behavior. And the reason I say that is not only has that been my experience, but I, early in my career, I worked in division one athletics. I remember this one particular season, there was a young woman who was a [00:05:00] walk-on. She always sat at the end of the bench because she was a walk-on.
She was not the most skilled, but when you look down the bench and hear like who's got the loudest voice in terms of cheering on the team, it was consistently this young woman. Anyone can be a leader, and from the end of the bench, but it's all about the behavior that you demonstrate in supporting other people and, and that that is a less, it was an incredible lesson for me, um, because I, I really recognize I don't have to be in a position, I don't have to have the loudest voice. Um, but it, it's an opportunity for me.
Nicole Greer: Yeah. That's awesome. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And um, and I love kind of underneath what you're saying, she had the loudest voice. She was always cheering them on. 'cause um, you know, a lot of things I talk about on the show, Carrie, are about, uh, leaders have to have great character. And [00:06:00] so I, you know, I would call this young woman, you know, like an encourager.
Carrie Graham: Yes.
Nicole Greer: And I, I think that's a huge leadership, uh, behavior and trait and, and just to tell somebody, you know, you're doing a good job. I mean, and really be the person on the bench while they watch you in the field. And, and the other thing, what just landed for me was, you know, noticing what people are doing and commenting instead of just taking it for granted that your peeps are working.
Carrie Graham: Right, right. It, and to know, and she was like this consistently, whether the team was winning or losing, she always knew it was next to no chance that she was gonna get to play. But her level of energy and encouragement was consistent, not only game after game, season after season, year after year, in practice, during games. And in her senior year, they voted her as the captain. I'm [00:07:00] delighted to say that she's actually has gone on to become an attorney and so i, I really believe it's about behavior. Effective leadership is in fact about behavior. I think we can all attest that there are some individuals who have held one of the highest positions that we can imagine in this country. Are they the best leader? Like, what is there, you know, like it's just out there in the ether. What does that individual's behavior demonstrate? And so it, for me it's about, it really is about behavior.
Nicole Greer: I couldn't agree more. That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, as I said in the introduction, uh, Carrie, Dr. Carrie Graham, uh, and when you get to know her on a first name basis, you'll be able to call her Carrie.
Carrie Graham: Yes.
Nicole Greer: Um, she is an adult learning strategist, and so people are like, what's that? That sounds cool. What is an adult learning strategist? I love this and don't miss this. Adults need to learn. [00:08:00] So talk about that.
Carrie Graham: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so adult learning in general is focused on the ways in which not only adults learn, but how to support their learning and what are the things that get in the way of their learning. Now, I'm sure someone out there will say, or is questioning, well, what's the difference between adults and children and that is a key question. When we think about our little ones. They have no prior experience of really anything. They've got no mental models of how the world works. But us, with some lived experience, we are consistently drawing on our past experiences, our current understandings of whatever the topic is, and we're leveraging that knowledge and experience to help us learn new things or refine what we know [00:09:00] in the moment. So, um, from a scientific perspective, we think about the executive system of the brain, the prefrontal cortex, that's where our critical thinking and decision making happens. That isn't fully developed until the late twenties, mid to late twenties. And that is why, sadly, some college students make poor decisions. It's because of, you know, that part of the brain hasn't fully developed. So when I talk about adults.
Nicole Greer: Or it could be the beer.
Carrie Graham: It could be, it could, you know, I digress. I didn't wanna bring it up. It could be the beer.
Nicole Greer: I'm just saying. Okay. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Alright.
Carrie Graham: Um, so when I talk about adult learning, it's really, okay, we're talking about people who have some life experience and that's typically mid to, to late twenties, and they've developed some belief systems and some [00:10:00] patterns of behavior that, that we can actually leverage in supporting their learning. And it's fun. I, I have to just say adult learning as a strategist. It's fun. It's everywhere. It's happening all the time. Um, and once I learned about it as a doctoral student, it changed my life literally. So it has impacted how I communicate with people. It has impacted how I take care of myself and, and offering myself grace and love, um, and different things. And so it, it really is a great resource and tool when you wanna create a vibrant community and culture.
Nicole Greer: Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. Mm-hmm. And I, I couldn't agree more. And I'll just tell you a quick story. When I didn't get my college degree done, Carrie, till I was, um, uh, in my late forties.
Carrie Graham: Yep.
Nicole Greer: And, uh, so I went to, uh, this [00:11:00] university. And at this university, they just kind looked at me, 'cause you know, of course the person who was, you know, the, the working in the registrar's office looked at me and they were like, oh, she's kinda old. Mm-hmm. I know. That's what they were thinking. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
They didn't mean it in a bad way, but like this person could. Be my mom. Yeah. And they said, um, Ms. Greer, before you take any classes, you have to take this other class called the Adult Learner. And I was like, okay, I'll, you know, whatever I gotta do. Right. You know, I'm, I'm user friendly, whatever. And, uh, so I went to the class and I, you know, read the little book and basically it said, you know, like, you, you haven't been trying to learn in a really robust way in a while. Yeah. And so you're gonna have to really get your head in the game about being a student again. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And um, so they said that takes, uh, something like seven times to tell an adult the same thing it might take a child because the adult is going, should I do this?
Carrie Graham: Yes.
Nicole Greer: It's not really, yes. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Yes. [00:12:00] Can you relate to this?
Carrie Graham: Absolutely. And the questioning, and that's why I say when we think about adult learning, we're not just thinking about what supports their learning, but what are the existing barriers. Right?
Nicole Greer: Right.
Carrie Graham: Like if we've got negative past experience. I'll, I'll admit I don't like technology. I wanna go back to a world where we use a wood number two pencil with a rotating pencil sharpener, right? Like, that's the world I wanna live in. But like it, it just really makes the point that we have things in our mind that get in the way of our abilities to learn new things and, and whether we're capable or not. Sometimes it's not about that. It's about the emotional stuff that it brings up. The memories and, you know, to bring it full circle, Nicole, I got my doctorate as a, as a 40 something year old, and so I totally relate. I had been out of school working full-time, getting a degree. [00:13:00] When I tell you it was, I had the best GPA in my entire academic career. Oh, I believe it. And, and the reason, I firmly believe the reason is because I, I was an adult. I had things that I could match what I was learning to. I recognized the value of reflection and why am I being resistant in this statistics class? Well, it's because I didn't have positive math experiences as a child. Carrie, choose to rework that, do better. So I, I'm with you. I'm with you. It's the, the concept in the field of adult learning. It's fun because it literally is happening all the time everywhere.
Nicole Greer: Hmm. That's fantastic. And I didn't call it statistics. I called it "sadistics". And, and, and not only that, but you know what they did to me, Carrie? They said you have to take a math class and we suggest that you take statistics. 'Cause they thought it was gonna be easier [00:14:00] than like. Calculus or something for me. And I said, okay, you know, user friendly again. And then they told me I had to take this class called business analytics. And I said, okay. Right. And then it was statistics and I was like, oh my gosh, I had to take it twice. I, and I even went to them and I said, it is the same book. And they said, you have to take it. It's part of the thing. And I said ok.
Carrie Graham: Right. Okay. Yeah. And that's the thing, as adults we're agreeable. Like we have our own opinions, but we recognize what's the, the value of the final outcome. We wanted degrees and so therefore, we'll okay, we're okay. We're agreeable. Mm-hmm.
Nicole Greer: We'll do what it takes. Yeah. That's fantastic. Okay, so, um, so that is what a adult learning strategist is, is somebody who comes inside an organization and helps you figure out, how do I get all the adults learning around here? Now, you might be like, what do you mean by learning? Well, Carrie, what I'm thinking is like there's all sorts of learning in corporate America. Like we've got new software, everybody has to learn. We got a [00:15:00] new policy and procedure we gotta implement. Oh wait, I'm in HR and they just changed some labor law.
Carrie Graham: Yeah.
Nicole Greer: Or oh my gosh, the list goes on. Uh, or we're gonna go into, into a whole new market.
Carrie Graham: Mm-hmm.
Nicole Greer: And so there's all this learning. So, so you go inside and you help, uh, people figure out how to put the, how to put the training in place. Is that a a good word to use?
Carrie Graham: Yeah. Yeah. So it's, I definitely do that. I, I start with some analysis. So let, like, let's look at what you are currently doing, what's effective, what's ineffective? Okay, well now let's dig deep into who your audience is. Right? Who are the adults in your organization? And I always help the people that I'm working with, my clients, to shift how they think about the employee and think about them as a, as a learner. What does that mean? How old are they? Not just demographic [00:16:00] information about age and background. But let's dig deeper. What things have gotten in the way of them learning in the past? You know, during the the shutdowns, global shutdowns, you've got individuals who are attempting to parent and teach, homeschool their children, care for other loved ones, do their job, take care of themselves, and you now want them to add on learning something new without giving consideration that there have all of these other things going on.
So I, I help them with a deep dive of, we really need to take time in understanding people because then we're able to build around who the people are and not just the new labor law, an information dump, a new software, just get in it and play around. Oh, the new industry. Get up to speed on that. We're [00:17:00] we're actually customizing the training to meet the needs of the individuals in our organization.
Nicole Greer: That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Yeah. So, um, how does adult learning enrich organizational culture? So, you know, if I was gonna get super intentional and dare I say this, listeners, uh, we need to have an intentional way.
Carrie Graham: Mm-hmm.
Nicole Greer: That we are doing training. It doesn't need to be like, oh, we have a problem, let's get some training.
Carrie Graham: Correct.
Nicole Greer: Uh, we need to be proactive versus reactive. Um, you know, 'cause your people need, need to know, they need to be up to speed. So, I'll ask the question again. How does adult learning, uh, enrich organizational culture? What have you seen when people are super intentional?
Carrie Graham: Yeah. First and foremost, you, I have seen a shift in employees' buy-in and their commitment to the vision. And I, and I [00:18:00] believe that that is happening because you have made them the priority in the training. It's not about the content, it's not about the production outcome as the priority. Yes, that's on the list, but it's not number one. When we think about training development, the focus should always be on the individuals and seeing them as individuals and not as a collective.
So I, I would say that that's how it does it. It places them front and center. And during the facilitation element of the training or learning experience, they feel it because you're including them in conversation. You're asking them to share. Well, what I propose is that you ask them to share their own stories and their experiences with change management, with new systems, whatever the case may be.
And so not only do you have [00:19:00] their buy-in. You have their attention because they're like, this is about me. Right? And if you have someone's attention, they're more inclined to learn about, understand, use, and apply what it is that you want them to have. The information that you want them to have. I see it as a very seamless, flowing process with opportunities for iteration, but it's, you have to put the person first. You have to, you have to.
Nicole Greer: I love that. So, uh, if you put the person first, you're gonna get their buy-in. Mm-hmm. Then they're more likely to pay attention. Yep. And, and during the facilitation of this training, uh, you're making sure that you've got activities and points in your, in your training program where they're sharing their stories, their experiences, and then they're gonna go to work. They're gonna make it happen. Yeah.
Carrie Graham: They're gonna make it [00:20:00] happen because you've made it real for them. You've helped them make not only emotional connections, but connections to their past understandings, and that's when we apply things. I always tell the story, Nicole, about how I love to watch the History Channel, particularly on shows around building bridges. For hours on a Saturday, I could just watch how to build suspension bridges. All of it. I am fully engrossed. Fully engrossed. Do you want Carrie Graham or even Dr. Carrie Graham for that matter to build a bridge for you? No, you don't. No you don't. No, you do not. Not even out of Popsicle sticks.
And so there's that element of it, right? You can have people fully engaged and interested, but if you're not helping them learn how to apply the skills, you've then [00:21:00] dropped the ball, you've missed the mark, and they're really gonna struggle to apply the thing that it is that you want them to do. So it's a, it's a full process. It is in fact a full process.
Nicole Greer: Yeah. Yeah. Application, application, application. Which is just like when you buy real estate. Location, location, location. That's right, that's right. It's the same thing. That's fantastic. Okay. Yeah. And so, um, when you're working with these leaders to get kind of their learning strategy in place, how do you structure that? You know, one, one of the things that I've helped people do in the past is at least get kind of like, you know, the start of a university going. And everybody on this call don't tell me you've never eaten at McDonald's, 'cause I don't believe you. Do what Carrie says and practice honesty, right? And so, the first business I was ever in was the restaurant business. And I was always so impressed because McDonald's has this whole university.
Carrie Graham: Yeah.
Nicole Greer: Um, and when they hired people, uh, or people got franchises, they would send them to [00:22:00] Illinois and they would go through this whole thing. Um, Chick-fil-A is very good at doing this. All my restaurant people. And then, I don't know if you've ever heard of this place called Pals in Tennessee, but um, they won the Malcolm Baldridge Award and they sell hot dogs.
Carrie Graham: Really?
Nicole Greer: Oh, they're just off-- everybody go look it up. Pals. PALS. It's a hotdog joint in Tennessee. It's delicious. They make cheeseburgers too. But anyway, I digress. Are you hungry, Carrie? I got hungry all of a sudden.
Carrie Graham: I did get, I did get hungry. I'm, I'm not really a hot dog person, although if I have to have either. If I have to, I prefer beef, but nevertheless, like Yeah. Yeah. Like this is why we're friends, Nicole. This is right there. Why we're friends.
Nicole Greer: I know. So, you know, they put these major structures in place and that's how you get a consistent egg McMuffin. That's how you get a consistent Chick-fil-A sandwich. That's how you get a consistent, you know? Yep. Hotdog. Yep. So, um, so how do you, how do you put the structures in place? Do you do the university [00:23:00] thing? Do you, how do you do it?
Carrie Graham: Yeah, I take it with a, it starts with me. Mm-hmm. And I say that because when a client or an organization invites me in to support them, I take that with a lot of humility and I, I didn't wanna use the word humility. They could have picked anyone. They could have made any choice, but they chose me. And so I need to honor that. So it starts with me. I go into an organization. And it, it is with full inquisitiveness. Mm-hmm. Respectful inquisitiveness. I ask a ton of questions and what I find, what I have found is that even by the questions that I ask, people, they sit on the edge of their seat. Carrie, we never thought of that before. We hadn't considered that before. And it's just, you know, like, just, we're just getting started with [00:24:00] asking questions. So there's that. Now, once I'm in and I'm asking questions to get a lay of the land, I do. We talk about what exists, what's working, what's not working, what are your goals? And then I take every one of my clients through the same three step process.
Nicole Greer: Oh, let's hear about that.
Carrie Graham: Yeah. Yep. And so the first is engagement. Well, we're gonna now just jump into creating engaging, fun activities? No, we're gonna look at your, as I mentioned before, the adults and how to engage them. Who are they? So that's why I say we talk about who are they as learners. What are some things that they want? What do they need? What have been some barriers in the past that we can address on the front end? I'm a firm believer in being proactive. So we focus on the engagement piece. We do spend time looking and assessing the content, [00:25:00] but our focus is on the engagement.
Then we move to, um, comprehension and retention, and that's the nuts and bolts instructional design, learning and development, um, where we are really focusing on how do we structure this information in a way that 1) makes sense, because we've all sat through some type of training that was all over the place. We've all done it. So, you know, we, we structure it so that it makes sense to the needs of the people, the learner. So that's why we do that heavy work upfront. Um, we, we build, we use theory to build, to, um, include activities that, that truly engage and support learning and retention because we do the thing we remember, right?[00:26:00]
And that, and then the last one is a for application. So how are we helping them bridge the gap between comprehension and retention to actually doing it on the job. So there's, there are some key things that we can do in the application phase to support a hundred percent immediate improvement and then long term, right? We've all done this. We do it right the first time. We don't do it again for a couple days and we forget. Right. So that's where, let's include some things that support their application right now and long term. Yeah, so I, it's era like I think we are in a new era of chaining and development. We need to do things differently. So it's engagement, comprehension, and retention and application.
Nicole Greer: Yeah. And, and I imagine when you say application, we put some [00:27:00] things in place. Those things would be like what I would call a job aid.
Carrie Graham: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Nicole Greer: Things like that. Yeah. So.
Carrie Graham: Again, I, I tie it back to who are the learners, because it, it might be a job aid, it might be, you know what, we need to develop a, a formalized mentoring program. So that there's that long term knowledge sharing, feedback and correction. Perhaps this isn't a one and done training, but we need those follow up sessions and so the application piece, it's directly linked to the people and the projected outcome.
Nicole Greer: I love it. Yeah, I love it. Yeah.
Announcer: Are you ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with their strategies, systems, and smarts to increase [00:28:00] clarity, accountability, energy, and results. Your organization will get lit from within! Email her at nicole@vibrantculture.com and be sure to check out Nicole's TEDx Talk at vibrantculture.com.
Nicole Greer: Okay, wonderful. So, um, how do you personally engage adult learning? Is that what you meant when you said you go in and you do the questioning, uh, portion of it?
Carrie Graham: Yeah. Yeah. It, it is. I, I am a humanist at heart, and so it's helping people.
Nicole Greer: Which means she's a sweetheart. That means. She's a lover, not a fighter.
Carrie Graham: I'll use the academic term even though you're, you're correct, right?
Nicole Greer: Are you married? I don't know if you're, are you married?
Carrie Graham: I'm recently married. Two years in, two years.
Nicole Greer: Oh my gosh. Do you know what today is? Today is my 33rd wedding anniversary, and I looked at my husband like, what are we doing? He's like, whatever you want.
Carrie Graham: You know, [00:29:00] I, I married somebody from that same cloth, right? Like, what do you wanna do? I don't know. Whatever you wanna do. Yeah, I love it. I love it. That's right. But, you know, I'm actually, I'll, I'll share this. I'm glad that you asked because when I, yes. When I step into organizations, I take a very personal and relationship driven approach. Because my focus is on the end user. Not only, not just the end user, but who are they impacting, right? They are impacting their children, their loved ones, their friends. So if they're frustrated at work, they're gonna leave your office doors and have an impact on the world. So I'm always thinking, my heart is always thinking about those individuals, um, and, and developing them as much as possible.
But on a very personal note. My level of engagement with adult learning, it [00:30:00] has helped me. I, I, I, so I got married later in life, right? 48, and I'm like, I don't know how to communicate. Like, like this is on a different level, right? Like, what does this mean? And. Knowing what I know about adult learning, it has really helped me in communicating with my husband in recognizing it's not about you, Carrie, right? Like it's just not about you. How can you say something or explain something in a way that is palatable for this individual that you live with and that you know that I incredibly adore and care for? So I engage in it every day. Every day. Um, one of the examples I, I love to share is when I got married, I instantly became a grandmother.
Nicole Greer: Oh my gosh. How fun. I'm jealous.
Carrie Graham: Yeah. To two little boys, two young boys. And [00:31:00] I didn't grow up with boys. I, I have a younger sister. All my cousins that are male did not live near me. I don't, I didn't get it. And my husband was like, Carrie, they're gonna come over, right? Like we're gonna take them for the weekend.
And I'm like, okay, well, so I'm sitting quietly like, what am I supposed to do with two boys? I, I was at a loss, right? So this is my adult learning. I have no idea, but I wanna be viewed as an involved and a fun grandmother. And so what did I do like most of us do? I got on the Googler. And I typed in T-ball like, what is it? How does it work? How do you make it fun? And I read some things. I was able to pick some videos and I'm like, I'm, that's trash. I'm not gonna look at that one, but I'll look at this one over here. So I was able to manage my own [00:32:00] learning, and then because I was involved and engaged and I had a stake in the outcome, I was focused. You would've thought I was getting another degree, right? Mm-hmm. And, and then the day came, and I'm proud to say like that we, the three of us had a good time. But that's an example of how adults engage in learning constantly. Constantly. There doesn't always have to be, um, an outcome that's attached to working or hobbies. It can, the outcome could be about building relationships. Yeah, and if we're open to that, we can do it.
Nicole Greer: And, and, you know, um, what's making me think of this is building those relationships. And you said, well, it may be there's a, a university, there's a training program, whatever. But it also could be that we put a mentoring program in place. And I just imagined you being, uh, an awesome mentor to these two little guys who will be young men before we [00:33:00] turn around.
Carrie Graham: Yes, yes, yes. Already in two years, I, we took them back to school shopping and I was like, oh my God. How, how fast do kids grow? Like, it's crazy.
Nicole Greer: Right? Right. They're as tall as you now. I totally get it. Yeah.
Carrie Graham: I swear. I swear.
Nicole Greer: Yeah. So, you know, leaders, um, dare I say this, a lot of leaders delegate training to like another person. The senior leaders are like, I'll get HR, uh, to take care of this or let the learning and development. But it would sure be great if the CEO, the COO, the CFO, all the Cs and the O's and the Fs and the letters, if all the letters, you know, reviewed and understood and fed into that training program. So what are the important skills that a, a leader with a successful training program, what are they doing? What are the skills they're demonstrating or the behaviors or strategies that you see great leaders who've got great training in place, great education.
Carrie Graham: Mm-hmm. That's an [00:34:00] incredible question, Nicole. And I am convinced that those individuals, as you said, they are involved in the training, but more importantly, they are able to connect the training to the vision.
Nicole Greer: Okay. Talk about it a lot.
Carrie Graham: Yeah. Yeah, so when you're at the top, when you've got all the letters, typically your focus is on the vision, right? The bottom line, the whatever.
Nicole Greer: Right. Three year. Three years out
Carrie Graham: projection. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And then as we move in the organization to where the work gets done, that, that eye on the vision, it gets blurred. The vision gets blurred, and, and then it becomes, it's not seen. And so you have oftentimes training and [00:35:00] development individuals who are the developers. They do not have access in some cases, even to the vision, right? Which, which I think is, is dysfunctional, but that, that happens.
Nicole Greer: I totally agree.
Carrie Graham: Yeah. And to simply post the vision, you know, in the doors when you walk in, I, I think is performative. But nevertheless, I really believe that when leaders review, they may not know the, the technology used to facilitate. They may not know the best practices, but when they look at it through the lens of what is our vision, does this training support, does it directly connect to the vision? I think that's, that's where it happens.
Because I've consulted for one company and at the beginning of the training [00:36:00] session that I was facilitating, the president stepped in the room.
Nicole Greer: Oh my gosh. I wish that would happen every time I trained. If you could just come, just be like the gal on the end of the bench and just say.
Carrie Graham: I'm here. Right? That's right. Right.
Nicole Greer: You can learn today.
Carrie Graham: Right? Right. I'm here. And so I, I had no idea what was gonna happen, and he stepped in and he stood in the back and was quiet. And, you know, the people who were introducing took a moment to acknowledge him, which was fine. And he made a comment about his experience in trainings.
You know, it was like a two day long training. And he acknowledged that they had work happening outside of the room, but encouraged them, we've created this time and space for you.
Nicole Greer: Oh my gosh. Hallelujah.
Carrie Graham: Like how, that is a true illustration of [00:37:00] connecting the vision. He didn't state the vision and how it connects, but he demonstrated it. And, and because involvement and teamwork and focusing on people is part of their vision, he demonstrated it. He demonstrated it. So, and, and it, it shifted things a little bit. Yeah, it did. And, and you know, a year later I've received emails like, Carrie, they are still talking about you in that training. And, and it wasn't me. It was, they got engaged.
Nicole Greer: That's right. It's almost like, you know, they got permission. And I do tons of training just like you Carrie. And the thing is, is I will, uh, go places and I'll say, you know, I'll say, well, what, you know, what are you hoping to get out of this training? I don't know. They told me it was mandatory.
Carrie Graham: Yes, yes.
Nicole Greer: And I'm just like, I just wanna cry.
Carrie Graham: Yeah.
Nicole Greer: Because, because we're not, it's like, well. [00:38:00] It is. You do have to be here. But the thing is, is this benefits the company and, and mm-hmm. It benefits you. I, you know, one thing, lemme just say this to all you listeners out there, because first of all, I'm a lifelong learner and I'm a nerd like Carrie, Dr. Carrie Graham, and I. I am always looking for like, I want a tip, I want a technique.
Carrie Graham: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Nicole Greer: I want a strategy. Mm-hmm. I want a little something I'm gonna put in my pocket. Yep. And I'm gonna take this thing outta here. I'm gonna put it to work, it's gonna make me money, it's gonna make me smarter.
Carrie Graham: Something.
Nicole Greer: So it's gonna make something better in my life. And so what a gift
Carrie Graham: mm-hmm. Mm-hmm
Nicole Greer: training is, but you've gotta have that, that mental model. I mean, the reason I've been able to do a lot of things I've done is 'cause somebody told me how to do it better.
Carrie Graham: Right. Right, right, right.
Nicole Greer: Or I, or I was messing up. They're like, don't do it like that.
Carrie Graham: Don't do it like that, like this. And this is why, and this is why.
Nicole Greer: This will happen. It'll be bad.
Carrie Graham: Right. And you know, Nicole, [00:39:00] to your point, like, it is deflating when they, when you hear them say as they're looking directly at you, I have to be here. Like it is so-- if you've never had that experience, you haven't lived. You just haven't lived.
Nicole Greer: Right. And it's almost rude. I'm just gonna say that too. Yeah. It's just like, well, that's disrespecting the whole fact that I'm here to help you anyway.
Carrie Graham: Right. Um, but for those who are listening in your community and in your network, Nicole, that have been in that position, I want to encourage you that that is information and that's the moment when you can switch it. So yes, it's like the first couple times I ever heard that, it threw me off, and then I realized, I've learned, no, this is, they're giving me good information and they don't even know. They don't even realize how much information they're giving me right now. And so I just listen [00:40:00] with an open heart and an open mind, and I acknowledge, Carrie, this isn't about you. It's not about you. This is the experience that they are living through right now. What can you do to support them in that moment? And that's how I always take that one statement and flip it on its head so that it then benefits the individual and encourages them and engages them.
Nicole Greer: Yeah. The funnest thing in the world is to turn that guy or all around, you know?
Carrie Graham: Yep. Yeah.
Nicole Greer: I totally agree. But it would sure help if the organization had a way that they talked about adult learning and training. In a way that it's like the CEO you're talking about, stand in the back of the room, giving permission to like, you don't have to check your email. During this program.
Carrie Graham: Right.
Nicole Greer: Please don't distract yourself. It's very important that we have Dr. Carrie here. You know, listen up people. Yeah, that's what I want them to say. That's [00:41:00] fantastic. Yeah. It's, oh my goodness.
Carrie Graham: It's, it's really, I don't know if you're open to recognizing that as adults we, we are constantly learning even when we don't want to be, we are. Um, but. It's, there's so much opportunity when you use that lens. There's so much opportunity. You can take a moment in the elevator to support learning or, you know, support application of something. You can be in the conference room. You can be at the end of the bench, or you can be at the head of the business. It doesn't matter. There's so many opportunities, so many opportunities.
Nicole Greer: Yeah. Yeah. Well, what's a quick takeaway that we can, we can do to enrich our organizational culture?
Carrie Graham: Yeah. I would say first and foremost, be inquisitive. Actually be [00:42:00] inquisitive.
Nicole Greer: Oh, which was her first step. Ask lots of questions, right?
Carrie Graham: Yeah. Just ask and, and not from a place of judgment, but simply from a place of curiosity, like, oh, well, what does that mean to you? Let's make sure we're speaking the same language. Um, so that's the first thing. Ask questions, and then I would say when you're asking questions, you truly are focusing on the other person, period. Just give it time, give it space, give it silence. We don't always need to be talking. Ask a question and just let it linger in the air. Ask why, and let that linger in the air. Now you're engaging people. So I would say that first and then it's to my era model of engagement, retention and application. But it all starts with just ask some questions.
Nicole Greer: Fantastic. Well, uh, we're at the top of the hour and I know that all my listeners are like, wait, [00:43:00] wait, don't let Dr. Carrie Graham go! Ask her one more question. So here's, here's my final question for you. Uh, if you were mentoring a single special listener right now, what one piece of leadership advice or learning advice would you give them? A little piece of advice. Here's what you need to do.
Carrie Graham: So I'm gonna speak to the people in your audience who are listening, but they're the quiet ones. They're the ones that find comfort and security in sitting in the back, flying under the radar. They're good at their job, but they don't want anyone to notice them. So those, you are the people that I'm speaking to right now because I have been and sometimes am still that person. I would say first and foremost, recognize what your gift is. Stop hiding your [00:44:00] gift. Acknowledge it. Acknowledge it to yourself. Acknowledge it to others. And once you start acknowledging your gift, I encourage you to start shining a light on your gift, whatever it may be. You shine your own light on your own gift because no one else will do it for you.
Nicole Greer: That's exactly right.
Carrie Graham: Yeah. So once you do that and the light is on you, speak up. Because people will stop what they are doing and they will listen. And not only will they listen, they will take action based on what you're saying.
Nicole Greer: Mm, fantastic. Yeah. And then you'll be what Nicole Greer likes to call Vibrant. All right. So way to bring it home. Way to bring it home. Alright, so today we've been talking about going into your organizations [00:45:00] and getting adult learning at a whole new level, enriching your organizational culture with a whole bunch of people who love to learn and who, um, get that learning done so they can achieve the vision.
Carrie Graham: Yes, yes.
Nicole Greer: All right. So, uh, three step process, right. You know, so we go in, we ask lots of questions. We focus on who is in there. Uh, we engage with them around the content and the comprehension, but then we apply, apply, apply. Yeah. All right. So that's what we talked about.
Carrie Graham: Yeah.
Nicole Greer: If you do me a favor, go down to the bottom. I know you enjoyed this episode. If you would click the like button and if you would, uh, leave us a nice little comment, that'd be fantastic. And Carrie, if people wanna get ahold of you, what do they do?
Carrie Graham: Two ways. One, if they wanna engage with me in discussion around a social media post, I'm on LinkedIn, Dr. Carrie Graham. I love it and I love it. Just come on, let's have good conversation, open conversation. Yeah. Um, but if people are, are ready to invite me in and, and even if they just [00:46:00] wanna explore adult learning for their organization on my website, Dr. Carrie Graham. At the very top, you can click the Schedule a Calm Call consultation, and we'll have very calming chats about what you need. Again, it's just me asking questions and listening intently.
Nicole Greer: All right. Fantastic. Mm-hmm. Thanks everybody for being here to listen to another beautiful episode of Build A Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer, and I've been so grateful to have Dr. Carrie Graham. Thanks so much everybody.
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