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Welcome to UNDER 30, the podcast series by the EU-Council of Europe youth partnership that brings research results, explores trends in young people's lives and themes relevant for youth policy and practice.
The EU-CoE youth partnership is a co-operation programme between the European Commission and the Council of Europe in the field of youth, created in 1998, connecting youth research, policy and practice.
After the EYWC
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Dariusz: Welcome to Under 30, the podcast brought to you by the EU-Council of Europe Youth Partnership. My name is Dariusz Grzemny. In today's episode, we dive deep into the results and reflections from the European Youth Work Convention, which took place in May in Valletta, Malta under the theme Youth Work Xcelerate. This convention marked one of the largest gatherings of the youth work community in Europe, bringing together over 500 participants.
Together with our guests, we will unpack what happened during those inspiring days, discus the noise and silences in European youth work, and look at what the future might hold.
Welcome. It's very nice to have you in this podcast episode we are recording about the European Youth [00:01:00] World Convention. Maybe we start with the introductions,Alice, can we start with you?
Alice: Yes, of course. My name is Alice. I am a PhD student at Södertörn University, that's located in Stockholm, in Sweden. And I was one of the co-rapporteurs for the European Youth Work Convention.
Jim: Hi, my name is Jim O'Donovan. I'm from sunny Malta. I am a former civil servant. I work both in Ireland and at European level, mostly in the field of policy development and implementation. And like Alice, I was one of the co-rapporteurs and also one of the co-authors of the report.
Laszlo: Everyone. My name is Laszlo. I work for the partnership between the European Commission and the Council of Europe in the field of youth. I'm a project officer. I'm responsible mostly for our youth work related projects. And, as such, I was also involved as a co-organizer of the convention this year.
Dariusz: Thank you. It's [00:02:00] very nice to have you here. Three of you. You have been participating in the convention. I was not. So it would be interesting to, to listen to your impressions. We have recorded a podcast episode before the convention. So now it's a few months after the convention.
The convention happened in May in Valletta, in Malta, under the theme youth work xcelerate. I am really interested in your impressions, in your memorable moments that you have from the convention in relation to everything that happened, collaboration, energy, and the hope that was brought by the people who gathered there.
So let's start a little bit with your impressions and your memories, that you can bring here and share with our listeners.
Alice: I really struggled with this thought after the convention because there were so many sessions that were really eye-opening for me.I personally participated in the previous convention that was [00:03:00] online, so for me, I had not been to this space in a physical sense before.
And I think what really, really struck with me that became this aha moment was actually at the closing session because that was the moment when I felt the, the strength in this community that youth work in Europe has. There is something in the energy when we meet with each other and when we are in these physical spaces together, that it's really difficult to grasp online because youth work in Europe is so, so big and it's very diverse. So all of these little in-between sessions were really important for me, like the breaks and things. And it was only at the closing session that I got this full picture feeling or sensation of what is European youth work and what is the convention really there for, because it's a feeling that you get, and I really just wanna say that I think that this was not possible without the Maltese, the host that we had for this convention did an incredible job in terms of the program and also [00:04:00] just looking at the venue and the logistics of it because they really emphasized a lot of focus on this type of exchanges that made this magic happen.
Dariusz: Thank you. Yeah, it's not very often or it doesn't happen very often that the youth work community, a part of it, because we are talking here, as you said, there's a very big community, a part of is it is coming together to to discuss the issues that are of relevance for them and, yeah, for their communities as well. Jim, what are your impressions?
Jim: I think one's impression of the convention will largely depend on what kind of role you had at the convention and how you participated. And I suppose myself and Alice were at a bit of a disadvantage in the sense that our job really was to write the report of the convention. So we spent a lot of our time with our heads down scribbling notes as to what was being said and so forth. So, our experience perhaps was a bit different from those of others, because we had a particularly, I [00:05:00] suppose, defined role. We were there really to record what happened and what was said and so forth, and to report on it. Having said that, I think both Alice and I were involved in the preparations and there was a great deal of effort put into organizing the convention, but also in organizing the format and the projected outcomes of the convention. So I think that was an important consideration and my most memorable impression actually was, perhaps an unusual, most conventions you, you go to and I been to many, they start off with a bang and end with a whimper. In other words, there's plenty of energy, emotion, enthusiasm at the start, and over the subsequent days, it gradually dwindles away into nothing. In Malta, interestingly, I thought the reverse happened. It started quietly, [00:06:00] but it gathered momentum as it went along. And as Alice said, by the final day, and particularly in the final session, there was a real sense of enthusiasm and momentum built up, and that was the thing that, that was most striking I felt, compared with other previous conferences is that, as I say, it was so well organized, so well thought about in advance as to what the, the kind of outcomes and outputs of the convention should be that it had a kind of a momentum all of its own, which built up over the two days of the convention.
Dariusz: Thank you. Laszlo, you were one of the organizers, so, you probably have memorable moments that other people don't have as well, being an organizer. So what are your impressions after the convention?
Laszlo: Yeah. thank you Darek. As, as Jim also pointed out, of course, we all have our specific rolesin such preparatory work and, in case of such events. So my impressions are coming from the [00:07:00] point of view of an organizer, also somebody who has been through a long preparatory work before such a big event of course. And actually I also, join Alice, in being very impressed by the effort and the enthusiasm of the Maltese organizers. I think, it was really a great collaboration as you also pointed out that, that all these events are about collaboration. For us, it was about the collaboration on the European level, and I think, I really have to emphasize that it was an a joint effort of the two institution of the European Union and of the Council of Europe with a lot of support from the youth partnership. It is a very interesting role for us, and I think we did more than before in the previous conventions now, and, of course altogether with the Maltese organizers.
I think this effort was, what made it possible to organize this big event, which was actually at the end a lot bigger than we expected. The original idea was to bring together around 300 people and at the end, it turned out to be an event of more than [00:08:00] 500 people and a quite successful event. So all in all my first, my, my most important memory about it is this great collaboration with the different stakeholders on the European level.
Dariusz: Thank you. We are here to discuss the outcomes of the convention. We cannot talk about the whole convention. We don't have enough time. But maybe it's the moment to have a little bit of critical view of what happened.
Sometimes it's very difficult to talk about it right after because there's too many emotions. Well, I hope you still have emotions after the conventions because it also helps. When we were having a recording of the podcast episode before the convention, Miriam was talking that the convention was going to use a metaphor of noise versus silence.
So referring to the topics, related to youth work or youth research as well and youth policy, the topics that get a lot of attention, being the noise and also the topics that are very challenging and sometimes overlooked. So silence. So what [00:09:00] was, according to you, the most significant noise and the silence that was brought to light during the convention?
Alice: I think there are a couple of things that I want to mention, especially on the noise side. What I think really stood out is that we have a, not just a big diversity, we also have a big recognition of that diversity in this community. So, there are a lot of different realities and needs and, and challenges for youth worker, depending on which level you're active in, what type of, of youth work you do, your country context and, and many other of these identifiers.
And, I think that there is an interesting agreement in the convention or there was in this, this feeling of the convention that we can face things together. And I don't think it's a given thing today when, when you have a big group of people with a lot of diverse focuses and needs and interests to be able to come to that point of [00:10:00] cooperation.
I also think from the side of reporting from this, that it's a huge, advantage. It makes a much more interesting space. It becomes, of course, a challenge to capture all of these different aspects and interests, but at the same time. If there's any place to do that, it's at the convention.
I also really think one thing that came up a lot is how youth work is very quick on its feet. And quick on its feet, both in terms of practice, but also in terms of processes and policy adaptations. And I think this becomes increasingly seen looking at the conventions happening every five years.
So we have this couple of years of events and happenings in the world before we come together again. And, and I think five years before the convention in Malta, we were at the heights of a pandemic. And what has happened in Europe since is a completely different type of discourse that surrounds young people's lives today that, that we are also all adapting to in our [00:11:00] different ways.
So we have a much more war centered focus today, in different capacities. I also think that it's a more like future fragile type of perspective now, looking at both, you know, the economic development, climate crisis, technological advancements in the last five years, all of these were topics that were brought up in the different reports that me and Jim took part of.
So we can see how youth work is a little bit everywhere. So looking at the silences, I think there are a couple of things, and these are always more difficult to identify because it's sort of the overlooked discussions and the things that you wanna be able to grasp that maybe wasn't said out loud as much.
I think one of the things I would highlight is that there is this need in the youth work community to be recognized by others, and this is very natural of course, because it's a social type of work. It's something that is dependent on the recognition of others, but this was raised by some [00:12:00] people at the convention.
Where should we put our focus? Should we emphasize this need for recognition, or should we just move along with what we're doing? Or is this actually crucial for the survival and, and flourishing of the youth work community? And I think there's still need for that deeper discussion. However, I think we should also question if a convention is the right place to hold that.
A convention is an amazing space. It's a great event and opportunity to, to join together, but it's not the solution of everything because they are dependent on a lot of other things happening between the five year intrevals. I think a key here is to recognise participatory way that we work as a community of practice. So when we take decisions together and when we are dependent on checking in with each other to strengthen the backbone of our community, there are certain other things that become more challenging, like looking ahead to the future and setting strategic directions.
However, I think this is what was [00:13:00] magical a bit about the convention in Malta because there was this, like Jim said, a momentum that was building and there was something else that is new compared to what we have seen before. So, yeah, I would say like the silence part, what we need to center in on a bit more maybe is this, looking at the big challenges and those take time.
So completely normal. Thank you.
Dariusz: Thank you. Yeah, it's interesting to listen to it, because sometimes maybe when you are very deep into certain things like recognition of youth work. You may think that this is actually the noise. This is something that people talk about. This is something that has been discussed a lot, but for many communities it's still a silence.
It's still something that, something they're struggling with. It can be a challenge. So yeah, it's interesting to hear that what is the noise for me, it's not necessarily the noise for the others, it may be totally the opposite thing. Thank you. Jim, would you like to continue about the noise and the silence?
Jim: First of all, I suppose, you know, noise versus silence. It's not kind of good versus bad. It's rather [00:14:00] noise versus silence, because I think there's both value in noise and silence. The noise was pretty usual, shall we say, for those of us who have been involved in this field for quite a while and going to various conventions, you know, there's always the same topics tend to come up all the time.
What is youth work? Where are we going? How do we do it? Issues around professionalization or volunteerism, you know, issues of funding, lack of funding. In fact, if you look at the thematic workshops, all these workshops were centered around the noise, if you like, of all the issues that have been there for a long time, would still need to be addressed. So I think, the noise was something that was evident also in the conclusions. I think, we ended up with Alice with something like 167 conclusions, which we managed to whittle down to 74. And [00:15:00] there's an awful lot of material and an awful lot of stuff in those conclusions, and that, again, is very reflective of, of this noise.
But I don't think that's a negative thing. I think the noise is a positive thing in its own right. When it comes to the silences, it's more challenging because very often of course, you don't hear silences. And there were a number of silences, which struck me, but I'll just focus on two in particular because I think they're of importance. I suppose there were kind of two strands of thought and many emerging from the noises, so to speak, or two perspectives on youth work. One was, shall we say, the kind of advocacy aspect of youth work, democratic participation, the inclusion of young people, recognition and so forth. So this is one very strong strand, which came out I think, in the conclusions. The other strand was [00:16:00] youth work as a practice discipline. And you can distinguish them almost by the language they use. The practice discipline, on the other hand, uses concepts, for instance, like quality assurance, indicators, measuring, evaluating, and so forth. So these were two very important strands which emerge in the conclusions. Where the silence, I think emerges is that people didn't seem to think, or perhaps didn't think much about that these two strands might be in competition with each other. It might, in some instances, clash with each other. I don't think they're incompatible, but I think one of the silences is that there's a challenge in trying to reconcile the various strands and features of youth work, particularly when it comes to developing strategy. The other silence, I think was worth noting as well. And again, it came out of the noise. [00:17:00] There's a very stark divide in youth work across Europe. We know this already in central Northwestern Europe youth youth work is fairly well developed. It's fairly well supported by the member state level at national or regional, local level.
There are different approaches to youth work, different dynamics, but in general, youth work is pretty well supported. But when you look at Southern and Eastern Europe, youth work is not as well supported at all, and in many respects it's very, very dependent on European funding. And I think this was something which came across very strongly in the conclusions. There was the voluntary youth sector in particular were very vociferous about promoting, you know, the need for more funding, more consistent, more permanent funding. But this gap, shall we say, between, [00:18:00] I won't say the haves and the have nots. Between a part of Europe, which is a fairly well developed systems of youth work and the other part of Europe that really needs further development. That silence has a very important strategic implication, in terms of how you deploy, particularly at European level, the resources and the finances that are available to you.
Dariusz: Thank you. Thank you, Jim, for highlighting it. Laszlo, would you like to add something?
Laszlo: Maybe I would highlighttwo interconnected issues. And it's also strongly linked to what Jim wasjust talking about. One, I mean, when it comes to the noise, I think there have been a lot of discussions about the qualityof youth work and what we are doing in the youth field. That's actually also where the subtitle of the convention, youth work accelerates comes from because it's not only important to speed up developments around youth work, but also to excel in what youth work is doing. So I think, investing [00:19:00] into the quality development of youth work will remain an important priority in the upcoming years.
And there, that's what I see that there is a kind of a noise and, and active discussion about. On the other hand, there is a silence also about how to make it work because in order to, or there is a potential silence, let's say, in some parts of Europe atleast, because, also Jim was just talking about the fact that there is a big gap between,
how in different countries, the authorities, the national international level invest or also another levels invest in youth work development. And in order to have quality, we need sustainable funding. And this is what also Jim emphasized. Without that we are not going to move forward and there is a potential silence, let's say, in the future or in the upcoming years about that because we don't know if many or if all the, the member states will take this message seriously enough to invest into youth work development. There is a strong support of the European institutions, which is, I think great. And there is a growing interest of the European institutions in supporting youth work. [00:20:00] But on the very long term, I don't think that it would work without the sustainable efords of member states as well. And, maybe also not to, only to put this kind of burden on the member states. One of the interesting conclusions of the convention was that it's still very important also within the youth sector, that we keep on recognizing the value of voluntary work within the youth organizations,because their work is also essential in our field.
Dariusz: Thank you. Yeah. And all this is in the outcomes. It's in the report from the convention. Yeah, let's talk about these outcomes. We cannot talk about 70 something of them. So we already have to choose some of them. In your presentation of the outcomes, you divided them into three parts into actions, processes, and concepts.
So maybe let's focus on these three areas, to see what are the main outcomes of this work, of the youth work community.
Jim: Yeah, when we talk about outcomes, I think it's [00:21:00] important to distinguish between the conclusions of the conventions and the outcomes. What you had from coming outta the convention were conclusions about 74 and all. And, there they'll be presented in the report in line with the thematic workshops. But there are a number of way of configuring them, so to speak. And, and these are only suggestions, you know, they're not meant to be defining or anything like that. And they can be defined, for instance, and this is how I might cluster them from, shall we say, from my own perspective. There are conclusions that relate to underpinning principles and values. So that's one cluster. And of course, these are fundamental in developing any kind of strategy. What are the underpinning principles? What are the values? What is the particular vision
of the strategy. Secondly, we have things like development processes and, and good practices. And again, these, if you go down through the conclusions, you'll be able to see things that cannot be done straight away. [00:22:00] They're not really principles, but there are things that involve some kind of process leading to good practice or good processes. Then you have essential supports and services. And these, are not just financial, they're also questions of human resources, management structures and so forth. So again, when you go down through the conclusions, you'll be able to see these emerging as well. And finally, there are things like specific and focused actions and other ones, particular things that action you can take. I won't say easily, but at least they, you know, they're very specific. And very focused. So that is how I would kind of categorize them. But again, this is simply a personal perspective. I think when we think about the, the outcomes of the convention, we need to, as I say, distinguish them from the conclusions. The outcomes of the convention [00:23:00] are the extent to which the conclusions can inform, underpin and be included in future youth work policy strategy in Europe, that is the crucial thing. And the conclusions lead onto the roadmap. And it's the roadmap really, which we kind of indicate what the outcomes of the convention might look like. So the roadmap in a way reflects the outcomes of the convention or rather the potential outcomes of the convention. And that potential is to what extent, future, particularly the upcoming EU youth strategy post 2027, to what extent, will the conclusions of the convention influence that document. Others as well obviously, with that in particular.
Dariusz: Thank you for distinguishing between the conclusions and the outcomes. But maybe let's talk a [00:24:00] bit about these conclusions. There are many of them and maybe, yeah, I don't know if it's possible to summarize them, but that will be good for our listeners to have just a view of what kind of conclusions are there after the convention?
Alice: Yeah, I will give it a go, and I think it's building on what Jim said before, there are so many different proposal suggestions that are in the conclusions of the convention. So I really do encourage people to go through the report and look at them because again, we had such a, a big group of participants, over 500 people discussing in, in many, many different groups.
So, this is definitely only a summary that we can provide for this, this podcast episode. But, for those who remember the convention was structured over three different themes. So we had the core youth work core, we had youth work environments, and we had youth work systems. and you can see these also mimicked in the report.
So I think one thing that, that strikes me, looking back at it [00:25:00] now, a couple of months later. This is work both for us as an internal community. For example, there is a suggestion to to develop a European code of ethics for youth workers. That's very internally focused example. But there's equally so looking at the different structures and processes that also, surround us that are in the environment of youth work. So it looks at difficult, political tensions or influence on youth work. It looks at the infrastructure that we, we can see, for example, regarding to sustainable funding for youth work, that looking at youth work as a social infrastructure rather at something independently standing.
so I, I think that you can see all of these different layers in. It will also be helpful in looking at how to move ahead for the next five years. There is something that is both directly focused, for example, onyouth centers with a quality label, but equally so for decision makers or policy makers.
[00:26:00] So, yeah, multiple different levels in it. And, just having mentioned a couple of specific examples, I don't think I'm giving enough credits to the full work, as I'm gonna repeat like, specific formulations in this setting.
Dariusz: Thank you.
There are a lot of conclusions, as, as Jim said, the outcomes will be, yeah, will probably be visible or not visible, we'll see, hopefully will be visible through different youth work policy, youth work, research developments, what's going to happen on national or European level, when it comes to youth work. So, so what's now after the convention? You talked about the roadmap a little bit. I know that the work is still in progress, so it's not that easy to draw a roadmap very quickly. Laszlo what's now after the convention? What's going to happen? Anything planned?
Laszlo: First of all, just to assure everybody that yes, the report will be available soon. I hope that, we will go through the proofreading and layouting process and it'll be available from like January onwards. And of course, we'll inform all the participants and also [00:27:00] others that may be interested in that in due time and otherwise, I think I need to go back a bit to your question about the the outcomes and the results of the convention is from the perspective of the partnership the most important is that also our new work plan for the upcoming three years, which is a novelty for us that it'll be a three year work plan has been just approved a few days ago by the two institutions and actually what is an important result for us that the convention outcomes were taken very seriously into consideration when designing the work pan. So actually, some of the ideas that were born at the convention, they are already integrated into our work plan. One example is the new European code of ethics for youth work. Which will be expected to develop in the upcoming years. And, we are really looking forward to this project even though we are aware that, of course there are existing practices and examples in given countries in Europe. But this will be a new tool, a new document on the European level. Also what is maybe a new development for us that, uh, following up on the [00:28:00] results and the work of the Strategic National Agency Cooperation Project, Growing Youth Work, which has been managed very efficiently and with great results by the German National Agency in the last few years since the previous convention. This project will be somehow also followed up by the partnership, which means that we will be also taking up the responsibility of coordinating the network of national contact points responsible for following up on the convention and also on the European youth work agenda. Just to also mention that we are not forgetting about the European youth work agenda as a document, and all its guidelines.
It still remains relevant for us even after the convention. And, in relation to that, we will also follow up on the roadmap, which Jim mentioned. This will also guide our work somehow in the upcoming years. We don't think that we will keep it as a, as a document that is like a written in stone or carved in stone. We will also shape it together withthe European partners that are around this [00:29:00] project.
Dariusz: Thank you, maybe we can already plan a next episode in two years to see what actually happened and how all these things have or have not been implemented, or how they were taken on board. Thanks a lot, everybody.
Thank you for listening to Under 30. Stay tuned for more youth voices and insights and see you next time.