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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica 5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster, Chef Ricky, Senator, Grinder, Pagoda, and Bam Bam.
And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some rum, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 145th. Official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Meet us here once a week. We're going to smoke a Cuban cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating.
We answer a listener email about friends buying and sharing fake Cuban cigars. And Senator shares his newfound appreciation for running cigars underwater, all 90 minutes. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar and enjoy as we pair our seven year age Florida, Kanye rum. With the Puerto Laranjaga Picadoras No.
1. A Corona Extra tonight from Cuba on the [00:01:00] pod. It's from Puerto Laranjaga. It's called the Picadoras No. 1. And it's a Hermosos No. 4. 48 ring gauge cigar by 5 inches. And boys, this is the final Which is crazy to say. Final cigar from Port Laga in regular production. That's how small their cat catalog is.
**Bam Bam:** I mean, this is quite rugged.
**Gizmo:** You know what I was surprised about when I got these, and I think I heard Senator say this when I was passing them out. It's shocking how dark the wrappers are on these. It's beautiful wrapper across the room. It's nice. Yeah. It's kind of marbled brown, reddish brown.
**Grinder:** Yeah. It looks like a rosado.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Kind
**Grinder:** of.
Yeah.
**Gizmo:** But it is toothy. It is dark. Mm-Hmm. . It's kind of bordering on the darkness that you'd expect from like a Partagas Maduro or a Cohiba Maduro, right? I mean, it's kind of pleasant on the nose too. And how the band is so different than some of the other Porto Laranagas. Yeah, I've never seen this band.
Is this a newer band, an older band? So we'll talk a little bit about it. This, this band is only used for this cigar. [00:02:00] The other Porro Aranaga cigars have the classic gold band, all the other three that we did. Uh, but this one has its own separate band, uh, and it is one of the more recent releases. So first boys, let's cut this thing.
See if we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper. Of course. Ooh, I got a dimple.
**Bam Bam:** Nice.
**Gizmo:** Oh, my draw is wide open. I'm happy about that. Me too. There's nothing worse when you get a cigar this size and the draw is tight. I understand. In ER or lawnsdale or something, but not much on the cold draw. Cedar got a lot of cedar. A lot of
**Ricky:** cedar. Some cedars, some green vegetal notes there for me as well.
Mm. Little little tight on the drawer. Just tight. Just a little tight on the drawer. Mine mine's the same. Mm.
**Gizmo:** Hopefully it opens up. I'm not getting much though. Flavor-wise.
**Ricky:** Same.
**Gizmo:** Alright boys, let's light this thing. The Porvarniaga Picadorus No. 1 from Cuba. Again, it's a 48 ring gauge [00:03:00] Corona Extra by 5 inches long.
It's factory name is the hermosos number four, which we have a lot of cigars that we love in that size, most notably schwa supreme from El Rey del Mundo, the connoisseur number one and some others. We'll go through those as well. And the factory code on the cigar we're smoking tonight is BRM April 2022.
Very nice. So these are just a little over two years old. That's a good code. Yeah. I've had a lot of good cigars BRM. Me too. So we'll see how these do tonight. So I will say as with the cigar. Let's go in here. The impetus for doing this one so quickly, the Port of Varnayaga, is we had a rough experience, I would say, with the Golanus, which is closest in size to this as far as a Robusto goes from Port of Varnayaga.
We did not have a great experience with that, and we had several listeners telling us that the Picadorus is a much better [00:04:00] cigar. So, that's why we're back to Port of Varnayaga and finishing up their regular production catalog tonight.
**Bam Bam:** What are you guys getting off the light here?
**Gizmo:** A woody. Woody flavor.
**Bam Bam:** Exact same.
**Gizmo:** Woody, but mine has a little bit of cream to it. It's very smooth.
**Bam Bam:** A little honey or caramel thing happening on the finish. Maybe a little pepper. I also agree on the honey and caramel. Just a touch of it. No pepper for me. I'm not getting
**Grinder:** any pepper either.
**Rooster:** Light pepper in the back of the tongue.
**Grinder:** I get a, I get a spice, but not a pepper. It's like a cinnamon, but it's very, very fleeting.
**Gizmo:** I'm getting a touch of like, bready. Like a bready type of sweetness. Like a dough type thing maybe.
**Ricky:** Yeah, little
**Bam Bam:** uncooked dough there. Yeah. Like a challah. Ha ha ha ha! A
**Gizmo:** challah. The smell at the head of the cigar where you're drawing from, That is [00:05:00] fantastic right now.
It's like you're in a bakery.
**Rooster:** It's not like a typical Cuban cigar that, that starts off really light and mild.
**Bam Bam:** No.
**Rooster:** It's got, it's got some oomph.
**Bam Bam:** It does. Right on the light. Some body to this thing. I agree. I think this almost starts medium full. Yeah. Which is shocking, to your point. It's pretty pleasant right now.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, we'll see where the flavor goes. It's not knocking me around right now. Good smoke output as well.
**Senator:** The wrapper on this is really thick. It is. I mean, Cuban wrappers are known for being so thin. I don't know that I've ever seen such a thick wrapper on a Cuban cigar. I, I feels like as this is.
combusting, it's, it's like having a hard time getting through the wrapper almost, like I'm not getting that perfect even burn just because the thickness of the wrapper. It's reminiscent to a wrasse to me, just a bit. I think this wrapper's
**Gizmo:** thicker than
**Senator:** a wrasse. Yeah, maybe, yeah. I think the rustic nature is similar to a wrasse.
But the thickness of the wrapper is kind of unlike anything I've seen with a Cuban cigar. I would [00:06:00] again
**Gizmo:** point back to the Maduro lines. Maduro number one, I was about to say. The Maduro number one, we have the Partagus number three coming up. I have those already in the humidor. And the wrapper looks very similar to this, honestly.
You know, it's thick, it's toothy, it's kind of rugged. This kind of reminds
**Grinder:** me of a Mag 46, yeah, Mag 46 a little bit.
**Bam Bam:** Is that crazy? A little bit for me. No, I feel those are a bit more refined. You're talking flavor or the look of it? Appearance. Flavor.
**Rooster:** You're talking flavor. Oh,
**Bam Bam:** okay. I can see that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
**Rooster:** Yeah, I think the flavor is a bit rustic as well. Are
**Bam Bam:** you getting any horse foot?
Horse
**Gizmo:** foot?
**Bam Bam:** I'm
**Senator:** getting more donkey, bud.
**Gizmo:** So this cigar has an interesting story. It was launched in 2014. And anytime I've ever seen it referenced or mentioned, it's been called the Picadorus. But it's technical name, and now, it's name on the boxes, is the Picadorus No. 1. [00:07:00] Even in their official catalog, everywhere you saw it, it was listed as the Picadorus No.
1. But at retail, anywhere you bought it, It was listed as the Picadors. What just happened? We
**Senator:** have indigestion. Sorry, Pagoda's stomach just made an appearance on the pod.
**Pagoda:** Hey, hey, hey.
**Senator:** Welcome.
**Pagoda:** It's
**Ricky:** a long day. It's been a really long day. He ate a lot of wings at the golf outing.
**Rooster:** He did. Oh, we gotta talk about this golf outing in a little bit. So we have eight lizards in the room today.
**Gizmo:** So these cigars come in pretty plain dress boxes of 25. And what's interesting about these boys, and I certainly didn't know this until looking at Cupid Cigar website, preparing for this episode, this is a Habano specialist and La Casa Del Habano exclusive, but it does not have the second band. So I think that that's why we're seeing.
The different [00:08:00] main band on this from the other Puerto Varanaga cigars is this designates in some way that this is a Habano specialist and LCDH exclusive. So that's the story on the Puerto Varanaga Picadoras. If you're looking for history on Puerto Varanaga, we did three other cigars out of their regular production, the Petit Corona, the Galanis and the Monte Carlos.
You can check those episodes out. We'll talk a little bit more about how we rated them later. And finally, boys, this cigar we got for 20 bucks. So slightly under 20 for this cigar, which I always celebrate when we can get a Cuban cigar close to Robusto size under 20 bucks. I guess the jury's out now if it's worth it or not yet.
**Rooster:** So I actually have a box of these and I've smoked a few out of them. You don't say. And I don't know where it is now. We're gonna go to Bam's house later. I don't think I smoked uh, 25 of them. They gotta be, I mean, do they come in boxes of 10?
**Senator:** No. Always [00:09:00] 25. Didn't you trade that box with Pagoda for some Zinos?
Bam's house. Um, interesting.
**Pagoda:** I wouldn't, I wouldn't know where to find them either.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. These have only rooster. These have only come in dress boxes of 25.
**Rooster:** I guess I have it somewhere.
**Ricky:** Ricky, what are you thinking about it? I'm struggling a little bit with the draw. It's not super tight, but I think it's tight enough where it's affecting just how much flavor I'm getting.
You know, there's parts of my burn line that are suffering a little bit. And I think it's just cause the draw is not even. Um, but I'm, you know, I'm still getting tons of cedar, little creamy honey notes here. Um, kind of reminds me of this honeycomb candy that was big in the culinary world, maybe 15 years ago, where people would take honey, a little bit of a baking soda, and you create this like artificial looking honeycomb cracker.
So it's honey, but it's a little bit more developed, not just sweet, caramelized notes to it. That's kind of what I'm getting here. [00:10:00] And that could be well, in part to the. Uneven, unevenness of the draw I'm getting. Sometimes I feel when I don't get that right draw on a cigar, part of my palate struggles to get like, you know, every single note on that flavor for sure.
So, right now I'm just kind of, yeah, I'm trying to, Balance out the burn line and hope that I get a good amount of smoke out of the entire head of the stick.
**Gizmo:** I'll be honest, I don't think that the burn line issues has anything to do with your draw. I know Senator just reached for his lighter, I reached for mine.
I feel like this, the way this is constructed, the way this wrapper is, we're gonna be fighting that burn line through the entire cigar. Yeah,
**Senator:** it's not a pristinely made cigar. No. It's honestly just really frustrating. I, I mean, I'm constantly having to be conscious of the burn line because I'm fighting, I, I have a tight draw just like Ricky does and I'm fighting to Get some combustion and then, because of that, parts of it are heating up.
Other parts of it aren't because of how it's rolled and because of how thick the wrapper is. This is an aggravating start to [00:11:00] the cigar for me. Looks okay from here though. Well, that's the lighter doing that. I just relit the whole
**Grinder:** thing. Uh, uh,
**Senator:** uh.
**Grinder:** I'll tell you what, I'm, that, I'm sorry to hear that, because this is fantastic, you know.
Yeah, I'm kind of enjoying this, I have to admit.
**Gizmo:** Two out of the seven in the room are happy.
**Senator:** Their burn lines actually look really good. I think their wrappers might not be as crazy thick as I just touched mine up. This is artificial. Same
**Gizmo:** deal? Yeah, I touched it up. It's not, uh You know, I don't often
**Bam Bam:** The burn line itself doesn't really affect my experience, as long as I get a good draw.
Easy to touch up and kind of correct it.
**Gizmo:** But I feel like flavor becomes inconsistent. Combustion becomes inconsistent when Because the burn line's off. You know, when there's flares in the burn line. Like, there's these dips in the burn line. Yeah, that's pretty fair, I think. And it's like, I know as soon as I touch it up that it's gonna smoke better.
Because it does, every time.
**Senator:** The biggest thing with the burn line for me is just when that happens, the cigar tends to overheat because you're drawing on it and only parts of it are getting heated to burn and others are not. [00:12:00] So you're having to draw more aggressively and then the cigar is getting hotter than you really wanted.
And
**Bam Bam:** then it burns unevenly. Yeah. As you draw. Yeah.
**Ricky:** Then it starts to get a little bitter. Yeah. Yep. You know, you start getting some of those pepper notes coming in. Unpleasant ones. Uh, so yeah. I agree with everything there.
**Gizmo:** So boys, let's do lizard of the week, where, uh, we're going to give some stuff away to Lizard Peter, who wrote in specifically asking us about the cigar and gave us a little bit of homework to do in this episode.
He said, dear Lounge Lizards, when you review the Poro Arñaga Picadoras, I would be most grateful if you were able to give your views on what other marca or marcas it bears any resemblance to. I ask because I have smoked three or four of them. But I've enjoyed them all, albeit they've often required a lot of touching up and relighting.
There you go. Also, the few comments I've read or heard are quite mixed, and in particular say they are unlike other Puerto Guaraniaga cigars. I am relatively new to cigars, two years or so, and I'm working my way through [00:13:00] The different Cuban markers and Vitolas, though it's limited in the UK based, uh, based on price and budget.
My current favorites as well as the Picadoras are Puerto Aranaga, Petit Corona, Rast, Schwa Supreme, QD50 and Corona Sclero. If that gives you any idea of my quote unquote wheelhouse, I would really welcome any suggestions you guys might have as to what you think I might like. Very best wishes. from Lizard Peter in Nottingham, England.
**Bam Bam:** Very nice. All great cigars, by the way. Yeah, for a
**Gizmo:** new cigar smoker, this lizard's got some good taste. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's found some good ones, for sure.
**Pagoda:** Well done. From there to Nottingham, England, I meant to say.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, so that's our first international Lizard of the Week, boys. I love that. How cool is that?
**Bam Bam:** I can't compare this to any other Cuban.
Yeah, right now I certainly can't. Even just from the look of it, you know, the Partagas maduras that I have, they're deeper in color. They smoke different than this. This is a pretty unique
**Grinder:** even if you told me this was a Nicaraguan, I would have, I would have, it's funny, it's funny you say that
**Ricky:** so looking at the cigar in my hand, what I'm [00:14:00] tasting, I've recently over the past couple of weeks smoked a few of those Mijeridas from Saka.
Yeah. And it reminds me a lot of that. Uh, I'm not saying that the flavors are a hundred percent match, but yeah, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm there with grinder that it. It's more in line for me with that than a Cuban.
**Senator:** I mean, the only Cuban brand that I will say there's just a slight resemblance is just Partagas is one of the fuller flavored Cubans.
There's some elements of this that I could maybe associate with Partagus, but to everybody's point, there's not a marker that I would say this is just like X. That's not really the case.
**Rooster:** Yeah. I think it's got hints of Partagus.
**Bam Bam:** Agreed.
**Rooster:** I feel this, this cigar needs age. I think the tobacco is fresh, it, it helped, the box that I think I have, I think it's a 2019 box.
So, I'll have to revisit it, but I think this, this cigar at this point, I think the tobacco, they need to be aged.
**Bam Bam:** These are 22s, [00:15:00] remind me? Yeah, 2 years old, they're
**Rooster:** April 2022. Like it's not, the delivery's not smooth, you know what I mean? Not to me.
**Senator:** I'll just say, uh, the first several puffs, I felt the exact same way.
For some reason now, all of a sudden it's like the finish has mellowed out and is even a little creamy. I'm actually starting to enjoy this where at the beginning I wasn't. I'm
**Gizmo:** having
**Senator:** the
**Gizmo:** opposite experience. As soon as I lit, I was saying it's bready, creamy. Now I'm looking at this going, uh oh. What a, what a consistent cigar we got here.
Another hour 15 of this.
**Senator:** Where, where are these rolled? No, because I mean, I think a lot of what we're experiencing is, uh, is also a product of a really inconsistent roll. It's like we're getting, you know, what gives the gizmo flavor notes early on or what I'm getting later in the cigar, two of us have a very tight draw.
Some of them are wide open. I mean, these are just not rolled. These were rolled at Corona. Really? We are in Corona.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Senator:** All right. We're going to have to have a chat next time. We're at Corona.
**Gizmo:** I have to have a little chat with them. Not good. So we'll finish up on, uh, our lizard of the [00:16:00] week. Lizard Peter, Peter's email.
It says, PS apropos fabric of five. Have you come across a house blend of JJ Fox of London? In various Fatolas, apparently it's blended Honduran tobacco by Hamlet Parides and Oscar Valladares. I think it aims at the same market as Fabrica 5. I believe there might be some connection between the Foxes and Bon Roberts.
Very good question. So yes, Fabrica 5 actually manufactures these cigars for J. J. Fox of London. Rob Isla and Rob Fox and the Fox family are very, very close friends. I believe Ham, Hamlet as well. And to answer your question about the Foxes and Bon Roberts, actually up until I believe the end of 2023, the Foxes were partners, business partners in Bon Roberts, and now it's just Rob Iles.
So they've exited that business. Rob owns a hundred percent of Bon Roberts and the Fox family. Uh, simply now I think just purchases Fabrica 5 cigars for their house blend.
**Bam Bam:** That's all good news. [00:17:00]
**Gizmo:** All good news. Absolutely.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** And it was very amicable, the whole, them exiting the business. I think it was something having to do with their board or regulatory or something like that.
Wasn't, uh,
**Rooster:** wasn't COH involved in Bond Roberts? I don't think
**Gizmo:** they're a partner in Bond Roberts. I think there may be some Selling boxes through Bond Roberts. They sell a lot of boxes through there, but they're not a partner in it. So this cigar is not doing great for me right now, boys.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, it's, it's not a memorable cigar.
Um, I kind of, I agree with Senator. The finish is the best part of this cigar. Um, that's where I get a touch of honey and creaminess. The retrohale is not that great for me, and that's unusual. I actually
**Gizmo:** stopped retrohaling. It's not great.
**Grinder:** Yeah, it's not. I don't know. You guys, I must be on another planet.
This is like You like
**Rooster:** it? Yeah. You know what? It's true that some guys actually love the cigar. I love it. Mm.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Rooster:** So it's either like, it's a, it's a hate or love relationship. And that's like some people either love it and other, you know, everyone else may evolve
**Bam Bam:** into something better as we get through it.
**Senator:** It's a shame because I just feel like if [00:18:00] this performed well, there are flavor notes that we all enjoy that are in this cigar. And I think it's unique and differentiated in that all of us are saying this is a fuller experience than the overwhelming majority of Cuban cigars. This could be great. That's what's frustrating.
It really could.
**Rooster:** So I don't think, I mean, do you think it has the poor laryngeal DNA?
**Gizmo:** No. This tastes nothing like a Petit Corona to me. Oh,
**Bam Bam:** absolutely not. This is unique.
**Rooster:** Or, or the Monte Carlo that we did on the pot. No, same. Very different.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, it's unique. The ash is beautiful, though, on some of the cigars in the room.
**Gizmo:** I'm just trying to get to the place where this is decent. Because right now, I want to throw this thing off the wall right now. I'm so frustrated. Is it that bad for you? It's just frustrating. I've had to touch it up two or three times. I'm watching Grindr. He's like euphoric over there. I'm like, I'm getting irritated.
Why don't you guys switch? Yeah, let's switch cigars. [00:19:00] Well, he had around, Grindr. It's all good.
So you guys went to the golf outing today. We have, uh, our annual charity golf outing here at 1086. Only a few guys in the room, uh, golf. Senator Bam Rooster and I were not participating, but Grinder, of course, he's a big golfer. Pagoda, who's a big golfer, and Chef Ricky, who as of today, is now a golfer, I guess as of today.
18 holes.
**Ricky:** Hopefully to be a big golfer at some point. Yeah. But I have a lot of work to do. We're gonna get
**Grinder:** you some lessons, man. Yeah. We're gonna, we're gonna work on it together. Well,
**Ricky:** I, I did win, uh, two hours in the, uh, simulator. That's, how'd you win that? What'd
**Grinder:** do? Yeah.
**Ricky:** Door prize. Uh, yeah. Door prize. Door prize.
Yeah. A lot of effort there. I think we all Hey, hey, I did win the 50 50 raffle as well. Wow. He had a big, he had a big day. Of course. That's a big day. You
**Pagoda:** bought 10 of those, right? Like
**Ricky:** No, I bought six
**Rooster:** and, uh, Only six. You know what [00:20:00] the price was? The gift certificate at, uh, Aneo, I think. No, no, I, well, no.
Actually, actually.
**Ricky:** I did donate two gift certificates to Playa. Awesome. Yeah, so we should be seeing at least two more. We
**Grinder:** had, we had, we had a good day. There were 40 people that showed up. That's cool. Wow.
**Bam Bam:** All organized by Lizard Henry.
**Grinder:** Lizard Henry did a wonderful job. Uh, the golf course, I've never played the track Bowling Green in Oak Ridge, New Jersey.
Good public course. The staff were phenomenal. Great staff. The greens were great. It was a little wet. We had a lot of rain. Uh, in our neck of the woods the past week or so, it was very, not a little wet. It was, it was very wet.
**Ricky:** I had a few Juan Soto swings out there today. But, uh, no, I was happy with my contact.
I was happy to see some people, you know, in Grindr, Pagoda, and my buddy Dave who knew what they were doing out there. So, you know, it gave me some things to [00:21:00] focus on. And Henry was so gracious. And, you know, because this is my first time, I have nothing. I have no clubs. I have nothing. And. Uh, I got, you know, to, to our cart.
Wow. Very courageous, by the way. And, and there was a set of clubs there. There was a glove for me. There were tees. There was two boxes of balls. I'm happy to admit that that's courageous. The winning ticket. Minning.
**Pagoda:** You had everything set. So,
**Ricky:** um, yeah, so it was, it was just overall a great, great event. I had a ton of fun.
I absolutely participated in all 18 holes. Nice. Wow. He did. Good for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was awesome. So, Pam,
**Rooster:** you signed up as well, right? I
**Bam Bam:** donated my fee to the group and this is for the second
**Pagoda:** time. If
**Bam Bam:** memory serves, correct. I'll back you up on that. Yes.
**Rooster:** So accountability hour continues now in the golf, which none of us play.
Oh, we have to route. How do I get ready for some, uh, [00:22:00] emails for next week? I tell you guys,
**Ricky:** it's definitely, you know, I definitely, need. Have left that course today with a whole new respect for golf. And it's totally a man's game. It's a gentleman's game. Um, you know, it's, it's athletic, it's mentally challenging.
Um, there's a lot to get out of it for sure. There is physicality there too. A hundred percent know that about it. Hundred percent. There's, I
**Senator:** heard, I heard pagoda was very physical with the beers there. , there's drinking involved. Pagoda was on fire in the front nine. Listen,
**Pagoda:** you got to make sure you, you also left with some respect for some of the golfers.
Not just the sport. I got a
**Bam Bam:** question. So how were the transfusions at the nine? I didn't have any. We didn't have any. Pagoda,
**Pagoda:** how were the transfusions?
**Bam Bam:** Very good, I bet.
**Grinder:** I
**Pagoda:** only had nine.
**Grinder:** No, stuck to beer
**Pagoda:** today.
**Grinder:** Yeah, we had a great, Pagoda was on fire in the front nine. You said
**Gizmo:** he was Mr.
**Grinder:** Fairways. He was Mr.
Fairways. He was hitting, I think. We hit, I mean, you hit pretty much every fairway on the front. I think so, [00:23:00] yeah. So was that with distance and
**Pagoda:** accuracy or? A lot of distance, like 300 yards or so. Come on. No, I'm just kidding. Come on. It was a day.
**Grinder:** Golfer's called playing in and out. Hammond agony. Like he, One of us was always hitting a good shot.
So that we, cause it was a scramble format. And Pagoda just happened to be, uh, like, take the lion's share of those shots. And the, and the, cause, I don't know, some of us were a little, little, you know, errant on our tee shots today. So
**Bam Bam:** were the three of you on the same team?
**Ricky:** Yeah. Yeah. I gotta say, this is how good these guys were today.
I contributed absolutely nothing to our score. And they were still one stroke away from winning. That's awesome. Wow.
**Rooster:** So scramble is same as best, uh, technically
**Grinder:** best ball is different.
**Rooster:** Uh, this, what's the difference? Um, not among our group.
**Grinder:** Best ball is when, uh, if you're playing a competitive match, like [00:24:00] two teams, uh, one versus the other, you take the best ball of that person on that team.
And then that best ball. Uh, compares to the other team and then that's the match as opposed to scramble. Everyone hits a shot and you pick the, the, the one you want to hit and then you go hit the next one. Everyone hits from that same spot.
**Gizmo:** And you got, you got closer to the pin today, right? You want that?
I did close to the
**Grinder:** pin on
**Gizmo:** lizards are hammering the local golf. Oh
**Grinder:** yeah. Yeah. Uh, it was like 185 yards. Hit it to 10 feet, and we fucking missed the
**Senator:** putt. Now, the question is, how many guys were smoking while you were golfing? Exactly. That's a damn good question. I've had this conversation with Lizard Henry, who obviously loves to smoke like we do, but when he's golfing, he does not like to smoke the cigar until after he's done.
Apparently Henry was smoking something else today. Oh, but
**Grinder:** I would say everyone was, was, was smoking cigars pretty much the whole round. I
**Ricky:** had three cigars.
**Grinder:** [00:25:00] I had, I think I had three or four.
**Bam Bam:** So that's, you know what,
**Grinder:** that's
**Bam Bam:** a win.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. So let me ask you guys this. This was your first time going out. You guys have obviously played a lot of golf.
What cigars did you go for in your round today? What was your, what was your rotation?
**Grinder:** I had a Avo Domain. in Toro, which is a good outdoor, kind of like, I don't worry about trying to enjoy it. Um, and I had two exclusivos and I had a Ramon Iones special select.
**Pagoda:** Oh, look at you. Excellent.
**Gizmo:** What about you, Pagoda?
**Pagoda:** I started off, and this is even before we had, you know, uh, started the golf outing, you know, we were there around 20 minutes earlier. I started over the day with off Belcoso just to start off. Wow. That's
**Grinder:** very nice. I didn't tell you that, but that Was the aroma of that. Yeah. Starting the day.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. It was
**Grinder:** just like excellent.
It's an excellent cigar.
**Pagoda:** It's yeah. Meaning I've been starting with that in most of, uh, my, uh, golfing nowadays and, and then, uh, move to the Sonata. I had a couple of [00:26:00] Sonatas. And then, uh, Pledge of Allegiance after that. Oh, very nice. Look at you. What about you, Chef
**Gizmo:** Ricky?
**Ricky:** I, uh, I started the day with a Padron, I think it was a 2000, uh, which That's a good choice
**Bam Bam:** for a golf
**Ricky:** course.
I accidentally left. Uh, at the T. I'm not one of the holes. He's still loading the ropes. So that, that was Take your stuff with you. Chef was psyching himself out today. I was so excited. That's exactly what it came down to. I couldn't wait to get back in that car and go back. How many
**Grinder:** times did you walk to the green without your putter?
**Ricky:** I thought it was, he's used to having a caddy. Uh, yeah, no, these guys definitely move at a different pace and I'm still learning. And, you know, at the time I had no idea what to even grab out of my bag. I mean, you don't, uh, how would you know? Yeah. And you know, my partner, Dave, that was in the, in the, In the cart with me.
He's like, dude, you're at a point where it doesn't matter what you grab. Just grab something. Focus on making contact. He didn't, he didn't,
**Grinder:** [00:27:00] he didn't really pull any punches. Yeah.
**Ricky:** He
**Gizmo:** was
**Ricky:** very
**Gizmo:** candid.
**Ricky:** All right.
**Gizmo:** So Padron
**Ricky:** 2000, Padron 2000, I had a, uh, An aging room sonata, and then I had a house blend stick that was provided by 1086.
And then the last stick I had, because I didn't count the, uh, the Padron 3000 in my count. The fourth one was, uh, Pledge of Allegiance given to me by Pagoda. Great choices.
**Grinder:** Nice job, gentlemen. Yeah. I had an Exclusivo after the round, which was, I guess, my fifth, um, that was natural. And it was sublime. And it was perfectly kept.
You know, John did a good job with those, with those boxes that he brought. For sure. Excellent. And it was, you know, 19 bucks. Pretty good stick.
**Rooster:** This, uh,
**Grinder:** Pico
**Rooster:** Doros would be a good golf cigar, I think.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, I'd like to put it on a tee and swing at it about 280 degrees. If you had someone with a blowtorch with you the whole day to keep it lit.
**Bam Bam:** Correct. I think the humidity would hurt this outside. [00:28:00] Oh, definitely.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys. Let's move into our pairing. We're back to, uh, Florida, Kanya rum. This time we're doing the seven years aged, and this was brought up by Senator over here who fell in love with the seven years aged Florida Kanya.
**Senator:** I fell hard for this because it is the closest thing I've had to Havana club, which obviously we can't access readily whenever we want.
We've got to go to Cuba or outside the States to get it. Uh, I can't claim credit for finding it. I was at Pagodas on a Sunday afternoon. We were indulging in plenty of Pol Roger and then after five, six, half bottles of Pol Roger, we decided we ought to move to something, uh, a little more. Fortifying. And so Pagoda's friend, Lizard Shahid brought out a bottle of this.
I
**Gizmo:** thought
**Senator:** it was going to come from Bam. I [00:29:00] had, uh, I had never had it before and was, I just had a really small pour because I just expected, you know, we've had, I think we're a PCA. We tried the 12 year, the 18, the 20 and the 25 and the 12 year. Um, It was really good. I think we did the 12 year. Yeah, we actually,
**Gizmo:** we actually rated that on episode 135.
So about 15 episodes, 10, 15 episodes. Yeah.
**Senator:** And that did well, but that's, it's a full bodied spirit. And, um, I just expected this seven year to have like a, a bite. And I was shocked how easy this went down. And within probably 30 minutes flat, that entire bottle was gone. I mean, we were just loving it.
**Pagoda:** And you know, it's really interesting because, um, a little child did bring about one of the things was like on a hot summer day, you know, we were obviously doing a lot of champagne and then he said, drums are really good pairing.
Um, you know, with cigars, even during the day. And I was a bit hesitant because I'm not even a [00:30:00] rum drinker per se, but it really did work really well. I'm really
**Bam Bam:** shocked how delicious this is for a seven year spirit. It's incredibly good.
**Gizmo:** I love how good it tastes for how Like it's a thinner rum. It doesn't drink as heavy.
It doesn't drink as hot and the flavor isn't lost for that. The comparison
**Bam Bam:** to Havana club, man. It's very accurate. Yeah. I think it's on the money. Not a chip of ice. This, I can continue with this all night long. And the price point is the craziest part. It's 25. 99. Wow. Fantastic. This should be in all of our lockers.
This is outstanding.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, this is a very accessible, delicious rum for cigars.
**Senator:** It's shockingly good. I mean, I bought two bottles of it right after I was at Pagoda's a few days later. I brought a bottle, I guess I brought them both with me to the lounge. In one night, one bottle was gone. Then I came back the next day, opened the second bottle, the second bottle was gone.
Like, this stuff just drinks like Havana 7. Like, [00:31:00] you, it doesn't matter who you're with. Anyone just takes one sip and next thing you know, everyone's got five glasses in them and the bottle's gone. It's just so easy to drink.
**Bam Bam:** You know, normally, I don't think any of us would buy a Seven Year Spirit if we didn't know it.
Yeah,
**Gizmo:** if it wasn't Havana 7, for sure. Other than that, of course.
**Senator:** This is, this is really unique. And the thing I love is the no additives. I mean, they even put on the side of that bottle, like zero sugar. They don't add anything to their rum. And that's why, you know, you drink a lot of this and you feel fantastic the next morning.
Yeah. Pass the bottle around.
**Pagoda:** Do you need a refill? How many bottles did you get for the tasting today? Not enough.
**Ricky:** No, I got to say it's super delicious. The, the aroma on the nose alone. made me almost more interested, like get re interested in the cigar again. Getting any
**Bam Bam:** caramel or vanilla on
**Ricky:** the nose.
Tons of vanilla, tons of car caramel, a little cooked sugar cane. Yeah. Obviously the oak, it's delicious. It's smooth. It's creamy. Um. This is, this is going to do well tonight. Just wanted to get back to the cigar though, cause I [00:32:00] finally did ash. And this is the thing with the burn line for me. If the burn line is inconsistent, then chances are your light inside is inconsistent.
Your cherry's not fully lit. Right. And. I cherry bam. I toasted this thing pretty aggressively, very evenly, a good long time, and on my ash, I'd say probably a quarter of my cigar was unlit, right? So what I'm getting there, for me, I'm not really getting the true flavor of this cigar because I don't think all of the tobacco inside is ignited.
So a lot of what you're getting, I'm getting this like kind of cold draw. Coming through with the heat. It's a partial experience. Exactly. So right now I, I gave it another toast and a little bit more of an aggressive light. Let's see what happens. But the spirit reinvigorated it for me. So let's see.
**Gizmo:** I'm in the same boat.
I think the rum for me has kind of made me more excited about our pairing tonight. But over the last, say 5 to 10 minutes, I did a very similar thing. I knocked all the ash off [00:33:00] the cigar. Mm hmm. Did a retoast. It's definitely performing better right now. Yeah. It just had a little bit of a rough patch, but this is much closer in line to what Grindr's saying about this cigar.
Is, uh, is what I'm getting right now. It's, it's much, much better.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, it's, it's nice right now. Can't say much more about it though. I can't say it's much better yet,
**Gizmo:** but it's nice. Versus where I was
**Senator:** at, this is night and day right now. Yeah. I do like the flavor of the cigar. Like, the notes are good. Mm hmm.
I just wish it were easier to Get that out of the cigar.
**Pagoda:** I think with the rum, the rum totally is enhancing. It's in a way, a great pairing. Well, the more you drink. Yeah. Okay. Everything tastes good. The drinking does continue. Oh, my Lord. My head's
**Gizmo:** pounding now. I can't believe that that is a 25 seven year rum.
The finish is so long. It's lovely. Like, you would think if this was a scotch or a 25 whiskey, 25 scotch of some kind, The flavor on that is no burn
**Bam Bam:** at
**Gizmo:** all. No, [00:34:00] and I think it's helped because this is a fair trade certified Rum, there's no sugar added. So even when you're spending 25, normally I think, okay, a 25 spirit, I'm going to wake up tomorrow.
Really, really messed up. And I had this with Senator for the first time this week, after he got excited about it, we tried it. I couldn't believe it. I had quite a bit of it. Went home, felt great. Next morning felt great. And I think it's because there's no. You know, bullshit in there, a lot like what Chef Ricky talks about with artisan tequila and other agave, you know, distillates.
**Ricky:** I wonder what the process is for someone to get this much into the spirit. Yeah, that has no additives. It's only seven years old. The only way that I could think someone could pull it off is to use smaller barrels.
**Bam Bam:** Well he talked about it at our interview at PCA. He gave us some pretty good detail. Um, the barrels I think definitely have a lot to do with it.
It's delicious.
**Pagoda:** Well, a welcome to the world. Of sophisticated [00:35:00] liquor.
**Bam Bam:** Oh boy. It's
**Pagoda:** rubbing whiskey, buddy. I'm kidding. Can we film this? You should have seen,
**Gizmo:** by the way, speaking of filming, I was so bummed out. Bam, you weren't here last week. We had a whole thing last week about Pagoda adding ice to his spirit.
Oh, this doesn't
**Pagoda:** need ice, by the way. I heard
**Gizmo:** about it. Does not, does not. And it extended to the point that when we hit stop on the rec, on recording, these two were still going at it. We moved, we packed everything up. We moved over to the lounge, lit another cigar. These guys went on for hours about ice in their spirits.
It's a real battle. An ongoing battle here between these two.
**Bam Bam:** You are
**Ricky:** averse to ice. In preparation, the ice bucket this week, they get bigger. That's true.
**Bam Bam:** What were you, what was the spirit last week?
**Pagoda:** No recollection. Oh, no, no, no. It was the,
**Gizmo:** it was the Balvenie, the Balvenie 14,
**Senator:** uh,
**Gizmo:** Curious Cask. Yeah. The Curious Cask, uh, collection.
Ah, interesting. [00:36:00] American bourbon barrel, 14 years age. Okay. The Balvenie. It's good. Yeah, it was really good. Oh, great. It was, you know, it was interesting, but it had a little bit more peat to it. Mm. But by the time he added all the Balvenie.
**Senator:** That's the thing. We all literally said that if we drank that blind, we never would have guessed at first that it's Balvenie.
Correct. Once you drink some and your palate adjusts to the peat, then you start to get some of the Balvenie DNA. But at first, you really couldn't tell. That's cool. Even better with a cube of ice, I think.
**Ricky:** I'm just kidding. No, no. So I finally popped my Oban cherry. Oh yeah, 14. I went to a Yankee game on Friday.
That was your first time ever? Yeah. Really? Yeah, so definitely leans on the Peter side. But still, very good. Scotch is not a baseball. When you're in the Legend Suites at Yankee Stadium. Oh, there we go. Oh, yeah. Anything goes in those suites. That's it.
**Gizmo:** That's how you enjoy a Yankees
**Senator:** game.
**Gizmo:** So speaking of Oban 14, actually, when we were talking about that last week, [00:37:00] we realized we had never scored Oban 14 on the podcast.
I don't know if we, we might've drank that on episode one. I don't even know. It was one of our first five spirits that we did. We never rated it. It's not even listed on our list. So I did purchase it. We're going to do it on an upcoming episode. Awesome. Just to put the rating in the books. But, uh, that's a great spirit.
Yeah. Open 14. Yeah,
**Senator:** we used to have so much of that. We did. I mean, bam and I talked about this on an episode how true we all loved open And then we went through this period where it seemed like it was peatier than we remembered it. And we were back, we were recording at my place. Bam brought a bottle over.
You and I polished it off. We, just the two of us. Wow. Drank the whole thing. No, but it drank differently. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Than the later releases. I think, yeah.
**Senator:** Super smooth. Like, perfect balance of peat and sweetness, and then we fell back in love with Oban.
**Bam Bam:** I haven't had it since. Honestly, the whole cognac journey and tequila journey, it's kind of taken [00:38:00] us off the whole Scotch trail for a while.
**Gizmo:** Well, I think that we've discovered so many spirits, you know, through the podcast. Chef Ricky, obviously, being here. Two specifically from him in tequila and mezcal. Artisan tequila. Um, you know, it's, it's been a real journey. You've
**Senator:** got gizmo these days showing up to dinners at steakhouses with some orange, swift papillon.
Using words like artisan. Artisan, using agave distillates. I mean, we can barely recognize this guy. I love it.
**Bam Bam:** The word distillate coming from him is great, man. And he, and he finally knows how to say Oaxaca. Oaxaca. Can you say it, Giz?
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Oaxaca. All right, boys. I have another email here and this is actually coming from a listener who asked to stay anonymous.
He's so concerned about what is going on here. He's looking for our help and it's, it says here, Wizards, I'm hoping that you won't use my name, but I'm looking for some serious advice on a cigar related issue. I'm a Cuban cigar newbie. And have a cigar friend [00:39:00] slash professional colleague who has given willingly and later sold me three boxes of Cuban cigars.
I consider, you know, you know where this is going. I consider this individual of high moral character. And as a friend, he has a very successful professional and he holds as part of his personal profession and professional identity being the quote unquote cigar man. He hosts cigar related events where he gives out Cuban cigars, where people enjoy the camaraderie And here's a word I don't know how to pronounce.
Boni. Bonomi Bonham Bonham. Oh, Benihana. No. . B-O-N-H-O-M-I-E. I'm not sure what that word means. He says he continues on. He's also a Luddite who's not aware of red, uh, Reddit or the haos verification site. I've discovered as part of my research, a few, we, a few weeks ago, I purchased a box of Cubans that I later found out was a hundred percent.
Fake. I checked the other boxes I purchased [00:40:00] from him. Fake. I consider the money a sunk cost because of my friendship and professional relationship with this person. The question is whether I should tell him his stuff is fake, and risk humiliating him and embarrassing him, or should I just let him believe since it gives him a lot of personal and professional happiness?
This seemed like a perfect question for the Lizards.
**Bam Bam:** I think the answer is he should absolutely tell him.
**Gizmo:** I agree.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. And it's just too expensive of a hobby not to know what you're buying. If you're care about the guy, you know, you want them to
**Grinder:** know that he's getting fake shit from this other guy.
Right. I mean, he may not even know. Right.
**Gizmo:** Well, clearly the guy who's selling them, this seems from how he's presenting him in the email as a standup guy who just, as he says, he's a Luddite. He's not, he's not gotten curious enough to make sure where and what he's purchasing is authentic, but it's unfortunate, you know, especially when you consider You put the friendship aside, a professional colleague, you know, who knows where is this person a superior at work?
Is this person the CEO of the company you [00:41:00] work at?
**Bam Bam:** You know what you do? You tell him to listen to this podcast for a while. Yeah, there you go. Honestly,
**Ricky:** I don't think that's going to generate the result quickly for him. Um, and I think unfortunately when you're
**Senator:** proposing an accountability hour,
**Ricky:** you know what I'm concerned about is that if he doesn't address it quickly enough, some animosity will start to build up.
It will affect the relationship at work. Friendship, all of those things, you could tell the
**Grinder:** guy without making it a big deal. He doesn't have to tell anybody else that he sold them fake Cubans. Yeah. My approach
**Bam Bam:** would be, look, I don't, I'm not looking for my money back, but you should know this. Exactly. And, and
**Gizmo:** show him how, you know, the research, you know, pull the bands, pull the cigars, you know, go through the
**Senator:** box code list, et cetera.
I agree. I mean, I think I've been in this situation. I'm sure many of us have at our own lounge. Not that we're buying cigars from guys at our lounge, but the number of times that someone has come in and said, I got this new box of Cubans, Senator, do you want one? So and so, do you want to try [00:42:00] one? And my, the approach I've taken, if it's someone I don't know well, and I think really doesn't know much about cigars and just gets excited at the word Cuban cigars.
So they just randomly bought one to me. It's not worth trying to burst their bubble or. They're not going to want to dive in to even understand why and how that's fake and how to determine if it's real. But if it's someone that I think genuinely is passionate about cigars and wants to learn, and I consider it all a friend or even a, you know, good acquaintance.
Every time I say to them, you know, can I see it? And I'll take it and I'll look and I'll say, look, I don't, I don't want to say this and I feel bad saying it, but this is not a real Cuban cigar. And you know, how do you know that? And the fact that the first question is how do you know that? And it's not, no, it's real,
**Bam Bam:** right?
Right. Right. You know, they're at least willing
**Senator:** to learn and they want to understand. And I think if you care about that person and you think that they're actually passionate about cigars. Anybody would want to know and learn how to decipher a real or fake Cuban cigar [00:43:00] so that they're not wasting their own money buying all this fake stuff.
**Gizmo:** Here's, here's, I'm going to present a counter here. My read on this email is that this person has a little bit of bravado about the Cuban cigars that he's purchasing. Oh boy. Handing out to people. Obviously he mentioned a few times the professional colleague thing. So I think that there's an element of disruption that could come in here.
I don't know what this guy's ego is like. I don't know how, you know, how, you know, hard line in the sand. I'm buying good shit and I'm giving it to my friends and I'm the big dog here. That is a, when you consider the professional repercussions of this, it's bigger than meeting a guy in the lounge. And there is a concern there.
**Senator:** I'll just say this. I think. He does not describe this person as a superior, doesn't say my boss or anything like that, and I'm sorry, like, if that was his boss, I can't ima I would never sell cigars to any of my employees, I would just give them to that, you know, like, that's not how that relationship should work.
That's right. So, the fact that he describes him as a [00:44:00] colleague, like, I have to imagine this is a peer, and even if this is someone with a bunch of bravado and all of that, I still think like, if you, you're only trying to help them, like, it sounds like, you know, he's, he's described it as a sunk cost. It's not like he's, you know, concerned about the money.
It's more to prevent this guy from continuing to waste his own money and then other people's money that he may do this for as well. I think you really have a responsibility to tell him.
**Gizmo:** And the biggest thing about when someone, the example you just gave in the, in, in the room, Senator, In our lounge here, when someone pulls out a Cuban cigar and you know, it's fake.
My biggest concern is if I like this and smoke it, what am I smoking? Am I smoking floor sweepings?
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** You know, that have God knows what in them, you know, strings and rat shit. And, you know, God only knows.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Our environment here is a little different than what he's going through. Sure. We're pretty brutal and honest, so I think that would, we would tell somebody in the club.
Like, I think Senator's point's well taken. If [00:45:00] he's a newbie and he doesn't know much, it doesn't make sense to burst his bubble, but then again, we've told guys here that that's a fake, this is a fake. Uh, it's a, it's a very tough spot.
**Rooster:** Does he mention what cigars he does? I
**Gizmo:** think I, you know, maybe this person that he's talking about listens to the podcast, cause he was very specific about not using names and didn't give a lot of examples here.
So I don't know what's going on, but there's definitely some sort of elements here that he's, he's concerned about bringing this to this. So
**Rooster:** another approach for him could be like, Hey, listen, um, where did you source these boxes? Good question, you know, and then go from there and then say, Hey, listen, I put it under whatever test he did, you know, whether it's the serial number or the blue light.
Hey, so this is what I came across, you know, do you know what the source is? Where did you get it from? Do you think, uh, you know, maybe there's an issue? You know, maybe prevent himself or the other guy from buying it from there and wasting his money.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. So I [00:46:00] was at another club down the road here and the cigar manager told me that he got a box of bejiques for 200.
Oh, nice. Good deal. Oh, great deal.
**Senator:** Espinach.
**Bam Bam:** Yes, it was espinach. I told him, look, turn over the box. Is there a box code? I don't know. Let me take a look. So he gave me the box. There's no box code. There's no date on it. He doesn't know anything about Cuban cigars. I didn't want to hurt his feelings.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** You know, so I think your point's well taken.
It depends on who you're talking to.
**Gizmo:** I mean, I, I think what he needs to do is, and he can use, lean on us as a resource and follow up to this conversation we're having here with some photos and whatnot and, and send us the email and I can point out some things that'll be helpful. Certainly more helpful than the verification website.
Cause we all know that that's a little compromised. I'd never use the Habanos verification website as a measure of authenticity. Like Rooster said, it's all about Providence. Where did. You get the cigars and if you're getting them for a friend of a friend, or you have a cousin who works at the factory in Cuba, or I brought them from Cuba, you know, there are some really, really [00:47:00] questionable things there that, you know, photos and, and provenance are really going to do the best work.
**Senator:** There is one other approach. He could tell his colleague, podcast, lounge lizards. They want to have you on as a guest and we'll tell them.
**Ricky:** Just deflect it. Hey, guess. So when you say that the, uh, the, the Habano site is compromised or kind of wishy washy in what way do you mean that? Cause maybe this is some information he could use in case his friend is using that site as a verification.
**Gizmo:** Sure. So what. What we've learned in, and I use the word compromised is I don't know if someone has found backdoor access into that system to input fake box code.
So when they, they're verified, they pop up as authentic. But what we have seen is, and especially with that box of Cohiba Robustos I bought two years ago, all of those serial numbers were coming up as real, even though we found out those cigars [00:48:00] were fake. So I don't know if they were getting, you know, serial numbers somehow out the back door.
Did they go into the. Actual system and input fake serials and made it so that they popped up. Was there someone in Habanos, you know, chain of command that somehow they're somehow in, in his or her pocket? You know, there's, there's a lot of question marks about it, but I do know for a fact that there are fake boxes out there that when you put in that serial number on, it pops up authentic.
And then that's where it really has boiled down for us here on this podcast. When talking with, with folks about authenticity is it comes to, it really boils down to where did you get the cigars? There's a very few. Number of legitimate retailers out there, including gray market sites, I, Havanas is a good one that no one has ever questioned even through the chaos of Covid and the lack of supply I Havanas is one that has never been compromised and that's a great gray market site and there are others like it.
Of course, the direct hano retailers, friends of a hano, [00:49:00] you know, COH cigars, there are a lot of legitimate, you know, lc, DHS out there. Sure. Where you can get. Boxes shipped to you, but you know, 99 percent of the stuff you'll find on the internet is fake. And, and it's, it's unfortunate, like this guy's saying here, his friend is a Luddite.
Who's not on Reddit, who's not curious about this to a point where he's questioning where he's getting and what he's getting, you know, everything else goes out the window when you're doing that. So I feel for this guy, you know, because until he has this conversation at every moment that he's with his friend here, who's handing out Cupid cigars, he's either got to put on a, Grin and smoke the cigar that he knows is fake or kind of hide it away in his bag and smoke something else.
Like
**Bam Bam:** that.
**Gizmo:** I mean, it's really, really tough. Pull a Pagoda
**Senator:** and just slip a, that band on another cigar.
**Bam Bam:** Oh yeah. Go get Rooster. Rooster didn't like that comment. That was a masterclass in espionage.[00:50:00]
**Gizmo:** So boys to put, put a button on this, uh, on this conversation and this topic, I think that the consensus in the room is this guy needs to find a way to have a very direct and honest and friendly. Without being accusatory, I think you just have to assume that your friend doesn't know, bring as much research and information as you can and proof again, rely on us.
If you need to send us some email where I'm happy to help, you know, point in the right direction. But a conversation is needed ASAP because this guy is wasting his money. It's wasting his time and he's going to end up embarrassing himself in front of, you know, somebody who knows, you know, in a professional setting that might ruin a deal that might ruin a, you know, A collaboration that might ruin an opportunity.
Imagine he gives that to a client that knows and loves Cuban cigars. Imagine Senator ends up being this guy's client.
**Pagoda:** You imagine how that's gonna
**Gizmo:** go?
**Bam Bam:** That's
**Gizmo:** a
**Pagoda:** loss of contract.
**Gizmo:** You're out. You're out. I
**Bam Bam:** double my fees.
**Gizmo:** So, well, to this lizard out there, good luck with this. And, uh, we're happy to [00:51:00] help. And, uh, you know, best wishes as you figure out how to Get your friend into some real Cuban cigars.
So boys, we're beyond the halfway point now. I've been crossing my fingers as we're talking about this lizard's, uh, nightmare situation he's dealing with with his friend. What do you think of the Poro Añaga Picador's number one right now?
**Grinder:** As, as someone who really enjoyed it at the onset, I have to say, turned, turned to negative town.
It's, it's just gone, you know, it's gone flat. The flavor that was there in the beginning has been muted and it's a little peppery and like ashy. Um. And I'm not really drawn on it too heavily. It's just, you know.
**Rooster:** Yeah. Just the fact that you have to relight it so many times and even with the flame on the, you know, you're trying to light it, it takes a while to get it lit.
It's not instant.
**Bam Bam:** Were these stored properly?
**Gizmo:** Yes, they were. I appreciate the chorus of oohs [00:52:00] and ahs. Very nice. I just had that.
**Grinder:** The shake of Gizmo's head. Just like nodding. Yes. It's not a chance.
**Senator:** How many grams of kitty litter?
**Gizmo:** Now, these have been my tower for about two months. Okay.
**Grinder:** You
**Gizmo:** know what? The best thing is that
**Grinder:** no, at no point when you decided to put kitty litter in your tower, were you like, The guys are going to roast me for this.
Like you just came out full force. Like,
**Senator:** everybody's got to do this. I remain proud. I remember he's like, he's like a rooster. Do you want me to bring you a pound of kitty litter? It
**Rooster:** was five pounds. He took it right back that day. I'm like, I'm good. And Rooster has a kitty. Two of them. Even they rejected it.
Like, no thank you, we're good.
**Ricky:** Yeah, I gotta say on the cigar for me, the burn line is back to being a Chachou. And yeah, on the flavor, there's not [00:53:00] a lot happening. The finish is super short. The rum's delicious, but the cigar is just
**Rooster:** I mean, some of the notes that you get out of the cigar are actually decent. They are. You get some woody notes and some caramel and, you
**Bam Bam:** know A touch, yeah. Honey
**Rooster:** and a little bit of pepper. Those are all good notes. They are. It's just the delivery's not good and just tastes a little young or harsh or ashy, like Gwendolyn said.
But the notes that are being delivered are okay.
**Pagoda:** I think my last few puffs have been very unpleasant, really, like, I don't know, I'm gonna try another couple of puffs and maybe put it down.
**Ricky:** I got some cracking happening, it's uh, yeah, it's all over the place right now. Oh
**Grinder:** gosh, yeah, look at that, oh man.
**Senator:** I mean my problem is just down the stretch, the flavor is totally muddled.
Yeah. Yeah. Any of those distinct notes that I enjoyed. It's I'm not getting them. I
**Gizmo:** have a question for the room and this is going off of something Rooster said earlier about [00:54:00] needing age. This is a cigar in my hand that is not presenting as if with time it's going to get better. I mean, it's, it's certainly not a humidity thing in my view.
These cigars have been in 62 for about two months. You know, the question is, is it just one of these boxes? Is it bad blend? Is it improper blend? Is it improper ratio of leaves that's happening here?
**Bam Bam:** Construction is definitely an issue. It
**Rooster:** seems like a major construction issue across the road. I don't think aging is going to help with construction.
Yeah. That is what it is. Exactly. Aging is going to help in flavor. Correct. Not in construction. So. Mhm.
**Senator:** I agree. And everyone has said at some point in this cigar, we got notes that we like the blend works. It's just not being delivered consistently because the construction is really poor. I'm lighting mine for about the 17th time.
I'm
**Ricky:** curious, Senator, do you think the, uh, Pour over [00:55:00] method would work.
**Senator:** Oh my goodness. How could I forget running water? All right. So I had a huge revelation. Oh no, you didn't do this huge revelation. Oh no, you didn't. I didn't. I doused the cigar in water. Oh, here we go. Hold
**Bam Bam:** on. What cigar was it?
**Senator:** It was the Davidoff.
Okay. New world. So I've probably been the most vocal critic of that. I, I've never, you know, my point was I, I've never said to myself, you know, what this cigar really needs is water poured all over it to perform better. That's just not a thought at all. I'm always willing to try though. So. I was sitting in the lounge, ironically, it was after we recorded, um, the episode with, uh, the Ice Wars with, uh, with Chef Ricky.
And Mr. Freeze! Mr. Freeze! Mr.
**Gizmo:** Freeze!
**Senator:** Iceman. And the reason this came up is, uh, Ricky started talking about how he had poured water [00:56:00] on a 2011 Vegas Urbana Classico. Holy lord. One of the greatest cigars of all time. On planet Earth. Wow. I'm rethinking everything
**Rooster:** you do have to mention why he did it.
**Senator:** He, he had some sound, but still questionable reasoning in pouring water.
And the fact that he said it, it helped alleviate the issue. He basically had a really dry cigar that he was worried was going to, you know, crack and have a lot of problems if he lit without doing something to it. And so instead of putting it. In a humidor at the right humidity for another month, like we would have, I would have done at least, well,
**Bam Bam:** I think the rest of us would have
**Ricky:** done that as well.
It was in a humidor at proper humidity in a five finger bag with a bovet, a 62 percent boveta. Um, so yeah, and. It was still somewhat questionable.
**Senator:** But to his credit, he said it worked, it performed great, he enjoyed the cigar, everything was, was spectacular. I sent you
**Ricky:** guys pictures as I was [00:57:00] smoking it, so you could see it on the chat, right?
**Gizmo:** I thought you were kidding, honestly, on the chat, but then I found out it was, it was,
**Senator:** So, as soon as I heard that, I mean, that's a cigar I would be terrified to do something like this with. And I'm like, if Ricky took the plunge on that kind of cigar, I may as well just try it with something cheap and simple.
So I go in my locker here, I pull out a little Bella Coso, and, uh, I got a bottle of, uh, cold water from the fridge, poured it over it. Just kind of shook it out. So you, you have the, the head is at the top, the foot's at the bottom and you're pouring it over the head of the cigar uncut, uncut, that's hugely important uncut.
**Bam Bam:** Oh yeah. You don't want it to go into the,
**Senator:** no water should go in the cigar. So you don't want to get any, uh, you know, into the foot or anything like that, it just all rolls down the wrapper and then you kind of just shake it off. And even with your hand or your finger, you can just wipe off some of the beads that have water that you'll just see running down the cigar.
I then cut it. I lit it and it's still a [00:58:00] little wet. I have to say two things about it. Number one, it burned perfectly. Honestly, better than without doing that. And I say that because the Davidoff Bellicoso, it's a short little cigar. It does
**Bam Bam:** burn pretty well on its own.
**Senator:** It burns well, but the ash doesn't stay on for a crazy long period of time.
Yeah, that's true. You'll get like, A half inch of ash, like on a normal cigar, and then you just tap it off. I've never smoked that where like half of the cigar, the whole, all the ash held on. That night, half the cigar, I was able to smoke without ashing it. Held on perfectly. I have many questions. The second thing I'll say.
We'll get there. Oh, yeah. Take it. Hey, take a number. The second thing I'll say, I've smoked God knows how many of that cigar we all have. So we know exactly the flavor profile, what that is supposed to perform like my experience then. And it was so good. I've actually done this twice since then
**Bam Bam:** on the same cigar,
**Senator:** same cigar.
And every time I've had the same conclusion, the flavor. [00:59:00] Profile was more concentrated after doing this same flavor notes, nothing different flavor wise, but more concentrated in what I was getting out of it. And Ricky had a really interesting theory. And I, I now I'm sold like I'm, I'm totally bought in.
Ricky was the one who had said to me, make sure you use cold water when you do it. And I. I think that because the cigar is burning a little cooler from having that cold water on it than it ordinarily would. We talk about how like, when the cigar heats up, you, you lose flavor. It muddles the flavor. When the cigar burns cooler, you're actually going to get more of the flavor that's intended in that blend.
And I think because of that, that the flavor I was getting was more concentrated. So I can't, I was the most vocal critic of this, but I have to say it worked really well. So
**Gizmo:** are, and we'll get the questions here. I know this is crazy. Are you, is your assumption here, your hypothesis in this scientific experiment that you and chef Ricky have conducted, are you [01:00:00] hypothesizing, this is serious business here, Bam.
I was actually there in the room. So I witnessed this. That's right. I was there too, actually, for the first one. No, no, no. The first one was with these guys. Oh, I, I, no, I, I saw you do it. Yeah, I saw the second one, yeah. So here's my question. Skip the facts right, guys.
Is your hypothesis that it's a temperature thing? That, that is my hypothesis. The
**Senator:** reason I say that is, I don't think putting the water on it could quickly change the humidity in any way, shape, or form in that cigar. I think the only thing that immediately would be impacted is temperature. So I a hundred percent by Ricky's hypothesis and my experience being more concentrated flavor, which comes when the cigar is burning cooler and isn't overheating.
I think that's gotta be it. Psychological. So
**Bam Bam:** let's get to some questions. So the only question, how saturated was the wrapper? Because this is a porous, this is a porous product. It was a five second. Like how, there's levels [01:01:00] of saturation, right? So was it very wet? Was it just mildly wet and you wiped it right off?
**Senator:** Ricky said it was about five seconds. I think that's right. And the entire cigar was covered in water. Entire thing was covered in water, top to bottom. And the foot was dry. Foot was dry. And the funny thing is, you know, I was, I was cautious doing this for the first time. So I w I wasn't trying to get aggressive with dowsing it.
But after I had a good experience, not the second time, but the third time, there were three times, three times. And I think, uh, uh, Lizard Henry was with me for the third one. I doused it. I mean, like 10 seconds of just water running down this cigar, just to see how far I could go with this, if it would like permeate the cigar.
Trying to push the limits here, Ben. Well, I'm testing, it's a scientific experiment. I'm getting disappointed. I didn't think he would ever do this. This
**Gizmo:** is, this is crazy.
**Bam Bam:** Everything's changed.
**Gizmo:** The
**Bam Bam:** world is fucking turning over here. See what happens when you he doing?
**Pagoda:** It's become bizarro world again. Exactly.
**Ricky:** You know, I took a couple weeks off and it's like Look what happens. Okay. They
**Senator:** say don't knock it till you try it and I knocked it harder than [01:02:00] anybody. So I was like, I at least have to be fair enough to try it. And if I have a bad experience, then I'm going to stand by what I said. And I have to say three times every time the burn was incredible and the flavor was just more concentrated.
Then it normally is. Senator, you should try spritzing yourself. Yes. Oh! Someone feels vindicated. He did take some heat. Keep in mind, he's feeling vindicated for Rooster. Rooster was the big critic on this.
**Pagoda:** And now, uh, now, uh, with, with chef Ricky and, uh, Senator, I think next is going to be tequila. I think who Nonald's going to be indicated.
We're going back to the beginning of the podcast. Yeah, I know.
**Rooster:** This is like going backwards. So only, only problem with this whole thing is like John Carlo doesn't have enough bottles of water in the lounge. Everybody's going to be dousing the cigars with water. Hey, Russa, pass me the water. Will you bring your own water bottles from now on?
Correct.
**Bam Bam:** So what if we did it with, uh, [01:03:00] Gizmo's lemon flavored seltzer water? Oh my God. How would that work? Everything that tastes like
**Rooster:** Sonata. Only on the Corona's Clara. I think, I think Gizmo would
**Senator:** prefer that with a Bouchard chocolate milk. Oh yeah. That
**Gizmo:** sounds good. That sounds good. Well, I mean, the fact that you've done this several times now, the problem is in my view with your experiment, and as you know, we take this very seriously here.
Keep in mind. Min Ramne did the same thing. So does Alex Groom from Cupid Cigar website, but that's what I'm getting at. They do it with cigars that are very old. You're doing it with cigar that has never performed poorly ever for you. Very true. So now the experiment must extend to, You need to go to something that's a little higher risk.
Vegas, Urbana. Yeah. Vegas, Urbana. All
**Senator:** right, rooster, you supply it. I'll do, I'll do the pouring. So I want to, I want to see, I
**Rooster:** want to
**Bam Bam:** see you do this with a D4.
**Rooster:** No, it only works to do it on your own cigars.
**Grinder:** In other words, this is not a valid [01:04:00] experiment considering you only had a control.
**Ricky:** I'll say this. Also, you know, obviously the, the tobacco leaves themselves have oils, right?
We all know oil and water don't mix. So I think within reason. You know, there's, there's only going to be but so much absorption there. I mean, the fact that you took it even longer than the Five to seven seconds. Uh, that's crazy. That's, that's chefs bewildered. Right. No, i'm, you know, i'm truly surprised.
I'm, i'm happy you bought into it. But I'm even happier that you were willing to try it more than once, just to make sure it wasn't a fluke. The first time we got
**Gizmo:** to try
**Grinder:** a different divergent as well.
**Bam Bam:** We have to try the Cuban cigar. Let's see what that looks like.
**Gizmo:** That's I think you need to pull something aqui.
Here's what I would argue. I think you should pull from a box that has been smoking
**Bam Bam:** inconsistently. Not
**Gizmo:** a cigar that does well every time. You
**Bam Bam:** know, an Epi number one. Epi one. I want to
**Gizmo:** say this. Or even some BBFs have not been smoking.
**Senator:** I want to say this. Yeah. Two things. [01:05:00] One. I don't know what Alex Groom or Min Romney have said about this, but I, I, my experience is not, and I can't imagine that they're doing this as if this is dramatically going to change the flavor profile of a cigar.
I mean, you can't, the blend is the blend and the construction is the construction, like, Pouring water on anything is not going to change the flavor dramatically. So that to me is not what this is trying to solve for. To me, if you have a cigar that like Ricky's scenario, where it was dry and he was worried about how it would perform and doing that may help its performance.
If you have a cigar that, you know, normally burns unevenly and you have issues with that, you know, maybe it burning at a cooler temperature actually will help slow the burn so that it burns more consistently. I think it can, my opinion is, or experience so far, it can only help the performance. And then the only thing as far as the flavor is, because it's burning cooler, it has the potential, at least in this cigar that I tried this with, to concentrate the flavor, but it's not [01:06:00] changing the flavor.
It's not like I got a different note that I never got out of that cigar. So to me, the experiment is not going to yield anything if I'm trying this with a cigar that the blend is bad and doesn't taste good. Sure. This won't change that. And then the only other thing I'll say. Again, I, I, I'm as stubborn as anybody in this room.
If I tried this, everybody in this room ought to try this for themselves. Like truly.
**Bam Bam:** Giz, are you next?
**Senator:** No. Why not pour water over this cigar? You do cat litter. You won't try water? Yeah, really.
**Gizmo:** I don't, listen, the kitty litter, that I, I resent the implication here. I'm not going out and buying tidy cat. Okay.
I'm buying dry, unscented silica
**Senator:** crystals. And infusing your cigars with that beautiful unscented kitty litter.
**Bam Bam:** So I think one, let's go back to your science experiment. Yeah, I think if you told this, this experiment to Juan, someone like Juan Moya, he'd just tell you, kick your cigars up to 80 percent and go, go to bed.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** If you need moisture in your cigar. Juan
**Gizmo:** Moya, by the way, is the proprietor [01:07:00] of Old Havana Cigars. Who we love. Cayman Islands,
**Senator:** uh, Grand Cayman, I believe. Love you, Juan. Yeah, he's great. And keep in mind, my conclusion out of this is not, I'm going to do this every day. It just, I needed to test whether this is so outrageous and far fetched and can harm the cigar.
And so far my experience has been it's not harming the cigar in any way. So the guys that do it. I can't knock it as if they're screwing up their cigar, which is what I thought would happen. But it's not something I'm seeking out. But
**Gizmo:** when we've talked about this in the past, we're talking about Min Ranee and, and Alex Groom.
I mean, you're talking about two of the, you want to talk to doctors of cigars, right? These guys are in the
**Bam Bam:** world.
**Gizmo:** Preeminent. Yeah. Brilliant minds and collections in Cuban cigars. And that's really what I think is next is, is really, do you have a box that flavor wise is good, but just construction wise isn't.
**Senator:** Right. You just said these guys are the godfather, essentially, of, of human cigars in many ways. And you're not willing to try and take their lead. No, I'm willing to
**Gizmo:** take their lead, but I'm in [01:08:00] the room with you. Okay? I'm taking your lead. So I want to see you do this on a cigar. So take my lead and try it.
I want to see you do this on a cigar. A box. I'll only do it. If you do,
**Bam Bam:** I'm looking right at rooster. So I'll do it. I'll do it. I'm going to do this. So I'm going to find a cigar. I'll
**Rooster:** do it and I'll
**Bam Bam:** put
**Rooster:** it on split
**Bam Bam:** wise if it sucks
As
**Gizmo:** retribution We're all gonna pay we'll just bill it all to gizmo Here's what I would say is honestly, I think here's what we do as a podcast because I'm genuinely ball busting aside. I'm very curious about the success here. You have to try it. I think we need to find in one of our humidors, a box of cigars that is great flavor that just is inconsistent in its burn or arguably construction.
Yeah. Or I would
**Bam Bam:** say if, if you have a very dry cigar, maybe try it with something that's under humidified and see how that works.
**Senator:** Like a cigar. If I actually had, it's not a Cuban cigar. But we all have had problems with the Davidoff Millennium in Toro. [01:09:00] That cigar burns horribly. I would be interested to see, again, I don't have this cigar, that if doing this, and it burning cooler and a little slower, if that actually would correct that problem, and then you'd get more of the typical Millennium flavors profile that you're used to.
**Rooster:** I would actually try it on the oldest cigar that you have in your humidor. To really prove the point. It's going to be expensive. No, I mean, if it, if it works, I don't think it's going to ruin the cigar. Yeah. And to your
**Ricky:** comment, Bam, about just upping your humidity up to 80%. I don't think that's the same thing because what's going to happen is you're going to have an over humidified cigar through and through.
That was a joke. Okay. All right. I don't think that was a joke.
**Grinder:** It was a Juan Moya
**Pagoda:** reference. No, but on the other hand, he smokes nothing other than 80 percent are humidified. No, but a lot of people, you know, they, they do think that the flavor profile is more intense, but, uh, you know, more humidity, more humidity.[01:10:00]
So it does.
**Gizmo:** Well, I, I, I think this is setting us up for a true experiment on the podcast and great entertainment where we will do this in the room. I think we find a box of aged Cuban cigars. I think doing it on the Davidoff Bellicose. You know, I think as a start of this experiment is perfect. I think it's too easy for us in the room here to do that.
I think we should do it with something that has a little bit of age, maybe is past its prime peak a little bit. It's kind of on the, on the way down. And I think it needs to be a Cuban cigar, like Min Ran Ni. And, and Alex Groom would be doing it too. I think the whole oil
**Bam Bam:** line. I think that would make sense.
We should do it on Amazon too. What about
**Pagoda:** Zeno's and see whether they taste like QD's? Ha ha ha
**Gizmo:** ha! Well, Rooster's got
**Pagoda:** the whole 5 0 on that.
**Rooster:** We're good.
**Gizmo:** Ha ha
**Rooster:** ha ha! We should have done it on the 99 Lucy. Yeah,
**Gizmo:** yeah. That was not great. Alright boys, keen listeners will notice that I didn't even call for everybody's feelings on the last third of the cigar here as we were talking about Senator's scientific [01:11:00] experiment because I think most of the guys in the room have put the cigar down.
**Bam Bam:** I'm still smoking this and honestly it's, it's, it's not too bad. For me right now,
**Rooster:** I'm very, I have a lot of, and nothing, there's nothing that Bam hates. To be a cigar that Bam's like, this cigar sucks. Give him a Zito. He'll find something good. That's, that's a great quality.
**Bam Bam:** Thank you. He's an optimist.
Absolutely. Don't let me throw this at you.
**Gizmo:** The thing I will say is the pairing tonight, this Florida KA seven year age rum home run has been excellent shining star by far. And for any listener out there who's maybe never tried rum or who's been a little nervous about some of the rums we've tried that are at a higher dollar price point, this is a real wonderful entrant into trying a rum that.
It has great flavor, no additives, and you know, it just works really well with a cigar. I think this would work well with any cigar out there.
**Bam Bam:** I agree. You
**Gizmo:** know, not [01:12:00] just a mediocre Cuban like we've had tonight.
**Bam Bam:** It's delicious. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** All right boys, so let's move into the rating portion of our program tonight.
We'll start with the rating on the Flor de Caña. Okay. Seven year aged rum. Bam Bam, you're up.
**Bam Bam:** I think this is very easy. It's a 10. The price, the flavor profile, how easy it is to drink, how reminiscent it is to the Cuban rum that we love. Ah, it's a home run.
**Grinder:** Okay,
**Bam Bam:** Grindr.
**Grinder:** It's a 9 for me. It was very smooth, very flavorful.
It was a little hot on the finish for me. Just for me, maybe. Um, but overall it's very delicious. The, the price is shocking. Um, very shocking, but you know, we met the brand ambassador and after talking to him, it's no surprise that it's high quality. So
**Gizmo:** it's a
**Pagoda:** 10 for me. Uh, I think, uh, really enjoyed it from the very beginning.
We've had wonderful experiences with this. Uh, the price is fantastic. Uh, very easygoing. I'm not a big [01:13:00] rum fan, but, uh, yeah. If ever, even on a hot summer day, you're smoking out on your deck, you know, pour some of this and, you know, and maybe a chip of ice, uh, you don't, you don't really need it, but this, uh, rum, it's, it's fantastic.
Uh, uh, 10 for me.
**Senator:** Senator. Easily attend. There's only certain spirits that I think most spirits when you pour something to drink with a cigar, you're trying to relax and just settle in. And I think there are certain spirits that you can do that, but also they energize you in a certain way. Like Havana 7, we always talk about, you know, when we're in Cuba.
We're exhausted. We spend the whole day going out to Pinar del Rio or visiting a bunch of factories. And by the time we get back and like, try to relax, like we're really tired and you just pour a couple of glass of Havana club and you just get this second wind for dinner and anything else. And I think that's a real thing.
It truly
**Bam Bam:** is a real thing.
**Senator:** And I [01:14:00] think this remarkably, just like Havana 7, every time I drink it, I can be exhausted and it just puts me in such a happy place. It reminds me of Cuba, despite not being a Cuban rum. The price point is exceptional. I don't think any spirit that we drink. often, as in weekly, is 25, 26.
No, nothing.
**Gizmo:** I think it's, I don't think that we do a spirit under 50 or 60 on a weekly basis. Correct. That, that is, that is drinking. This is going to enter,
**Bam Bam:** I think, all of our rotations on a weekly basis. And it's really
**Pagoda:** versatile, meaning you can drink it during the day, you can drink it at night, you can drink it at any time.
Yeah. I mean, the morning, I, the morning, morning, this thing is .
**Senator:** So for all those reasons, uh, welcome to the world of Pagoda
And so for, for all those reasons, it, it's a 10. And, um, I just a world of credit to Florida [01:15:00] De I, I, it. I'm just speechless, honestly. I, I, I will never forget this spirit. I'm going to buy this by the case and, um, I'm so glad it exists.
**Gizmo:** So I'm also at a 10. I've been at a 10 since I had it the other day with Senator.
Someone had a change of heart. You said a 9 when we first had it. Really? Did I? You sure did. Well, we're under the microscope. We're doing scientific experiments in this room.
**Bam Bam:** I've never had this before. It's excellent. This is the first time I'm having it.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I am. I'm shocked at how well it performed tonight.
And you can't just like everybody else in the room here, you can't dismiss the price and the value to think that we have a seven year, eight, seven year old spirit for 25 that drinks as well as this does it and how many cigars this would go through. As a great companion to I, you just cannot beat it. And I think your point about the price versus everything else that we drink, I don't think we drink anything else under 50 or 60 every week that even compares to [01:16:00] this agreed.
I think most of the stuff we would drink, even, you know, we talked to a grinder mentioned meeting the brand ambassador. That PCA. And we had a great experience with all those. We, we did the 12 on the podcast, which performed very well as I would hope a 12 year age drum would. But I think even for some of the stuff that we love coming down from 12 years or 10 years into the single digits on age, those spirits are going to dramatically decline in quality.
And it doesn't happen on the floor it does not happen here. And it's honestly shocking.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Honestly. Agreed. I would be proud to give this to any friend of mine, any colleague of mine. I would be proud to hand this to anyone in Cuba who's used to drinking Cuban rum. I think they would love it. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** It's an
**Gizmo:** excellent
**Bam Bam:** spirit.
At a larger gathering, because of the price, it also works.
**Senator:** It's so easy. Yeah. And even with a fee. 50 celebratory stick. I'd be proud to pair this with that. And I wouldn't say that about any spirit even near this price point. I agree. So for me,
**Gizmo:** it's a 10 boys,
**Ricky:** Ricky. [01:17:00] Yeah. You know, I, I don't have a whole bunch of rum experience and this is my first rum experience on the pod and I have to say I'm at a 10.
Uh, wow. It is delicious. The price point is insane. In fact, I'm ready to buy a case. You know, what I have to say about the Sperry is something, you know, Grindr spoke to it a little bit. He found it a little hot on the finish. Uh, that's actually something that I enjoy. It's because to me, it's somewhat vibrant still, right?
It's not an oak bomb. It's not super woody. It's not super sweet. So if at seven years, I could still get that introduction, I would buy it. or a taste of what the, what the age will do to the spirit without losing the spirit's soul. I'm all for it. You know, like this is, this is just, it's been an amazing experience.
Amazing experience. And, uh, yeah, it may, it made me okay with putting a cigar down. Cause if I didn't have a spirit and I wasn't enjoying as much as this one, you'd be punching rooster right now. I probably would have forced myself. [01:18:00] Oh, it's proximity, that's all.
**Grinder:** Marisa's getting beat up tonight.
**Rooster:** What else is new?
**Grinder:** Oh really? Oh yeah,
**Gizmo:** you have it so hard around here. Yeah, you have it so hard around here.
**Ricky:** But yeah guys, for me it's a 10. It's delicious. And uh, yeah, it really, it really, really just made me okay with just having the spirit tonight. Uh, because it was that good and I was very happy with it. And no ice. He's looking right.
**Gizmo:** So boys, the formal liquor rating tonight on the floor to Kanye seven years aged rum is a 9. 8. Let's go. That's excellent. Let's go. Excellent. So let's compare that to two other rums specific. First, of course, the Florida Kanye 12 years aged. We reviewed on episode 135. scored a 9. 7. So this edged it out by just one, you know, one tenth of a point.
Obviously, price is factoring in here, right? That's a much more expensive
**Senator:** spirit than this. It is, but I want to make an important [01:19:00] distinction between the two, because I also drink plenty of the 12 year at home. The 12 year is a fuller, richer, um, spirit with even more bite. And for me, slower sipping and
**Pagoda:** viscosity
**Senator:** and viscosity.
Exactly. Right. And so for me, that's a spirit that I have one to three glasses of. And I'm good. This is a spirit. I mean, this guy's the limit. It's just so drinkable. Like when you're really just going to put in a long session, a long night, you're going to have three, four or five cigars. I'm not going to reach for the 12 year after a glass or two.
I'm I'm I'm good. But this, you'll drink the whole night and you're not going to suffer for it. You're still going to feel great and it's going to pair, like everyone's been saying, perfectly with any cigar that you possibly pull out of your, uh, your travel case.
**Bam Bam:** Can't beat it.
**Gizmo:** So the other rum that I want to compare this to, of course, because we've mentioned it a few times tonight, Is the Havana club from Cuba, seven years age.
We did that on episode 74 and that [01:20:00] scored right in line with this at a 9. 8. So I think that, you know, everything that we said tonight, not knowing what that score was. The similarities are very uncanny. They're brothers from another mother. They are very, and this one, obviously you could purchase the United States.
And second, it's significantly cheaper. If you can get it in the United States. Obviously, if you get it in Cuba, it's around the same price, but it's really performing neck and neck with the Havana club seven. So excellent, excellent run.
**Grinder:** I think I would have given it a 10 if I put a chip of ice in it.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, let's move into the formal lizard rating now on Yaga, Picadoras number one rooster you're up.
**Rooster:** So unlike the pairing where this. Where the rum is non Cuban, but it tasted like a Cuban. The cigar is Cuban, and it doesn't taste like a Cuban cigar. No, it doesn't. Yeah, it's true. Some of the flavor notes were actually decent.
I mean, what we were getting out of the cigar, uh, you know, the hints of caramel. [01:21:00] Woodiness, but the construction was horrible. I mean, two lizards actually ran out of lighter fluid. Lighting this thing. My lighter was pretty full. Damn it. Right? So for that reason, um, I'm at a five.
**Ricky:** Okay, Ricky. You know, I was, I was at a six.
wanting to give it a five, but I felt it might've been a bit too harsh, but I experienced very poor or rather inconsistent construction on my stick. I got a few notes there that I enjoyed some cream, some honey, you know, maybe a little spice, a little doughiness, but it was so short. It was not there very long.
And yeah, it just, it just wasn't enjoyable to the point where I found myself just wanting to put it down. And I. I was trying to stick with it to see if it kind of came back to life. Not much there for me. Not much there with, uh, Cuban flavor. Uh, a little bit stronger, uh, than I was [01:22:00] expecting. You know, which isn't an issue for me, uh, but I think that just kind of derailed it even more.
So yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and give it a five.
**Bam Bam:** Okay, Senator. I hate to do this, but I'm at a four. Ooh. Wow.
**Ricky:** Wow.
**Bam Bam:** Not surprising.
**Ricky:** Is that the first four?
**Bam Bam:** No, no, no. Go back to
**Gizmo:** the last episode. And there's some, there's some Cupid cigars that scored in that range too.
**Senator:** The problem for me, I think the number of cigars that I have not actually finished smoking and put down, I can count on one hand and it's probably two, maybe at most three.
And from the time I lit the cigar all the way through to the end, I mean, I was constantly fighting and having to relight and just, the draw was a problem. It was just a struggle the whole way through. Smoking a cigar is meant to be a relaxing experience. It's not meant to be a struggle. And so, that alone just completely ruined the experience.
And if it was just me that had that experience and everyone else had a [01:23:00] flawlessly constructed cigar, I'd say that was one bad roller that rolled that cigar and it's not representative of this experience. Product several guys had problems with their cigar. You mentioned listener emails that even came in that said you have to relight it several times People have had burn issues.
This is clearly a broader problem with this stick I don't know why but it clearly exists the flavor profile. I agree with with rooster It's not recognizable as a Cuban cigar That's what we intended to smoke tonight. And so that is disappointing. I'm not looking for new world flavor in a Cuban cigar. If I wanted that, I would pick a new world cigar.
Um, and then third, the flavor profile, maybe a sixth of the cigar I enjoyed. And the rest of it, either the flavor just got totally muddled or I wasn't getting anything particularly interesting. It was just a woody note. I was getting at one point and nothing else or some cream, but then nothing else. And just for that sixth, I got all of that [01:24:00] pronounced together and it just didn't hold.
So I can't, Recommend this cigar to anybody. Um, it's just a big disappointment for me.
**Gizmo:** So I I'm also at a four. I actually wrote down for beef before we even started scoring. This is quite honestly, one of the worst Cuban cigars I've ever had. Um, I hated it. I hated everything about it. If it wasn't for the podcast, I probably would have thrown it at the wall.
I was so frustrated. Thank God for the conversation and the rum saved the day. No doubt about it. I agree with, with what rooster teed up and that it doesn't taste like a Cuban cigar. It doesn't perform like a Cuban cigar. And for 20, I think it's an absolute joke. It doesn't taste anything else like the other Puerto Rican yaga that we've enjoyed.
Even, you know, cigars that we've given seven and eight, it's not even close. Um, I just think it's a really, really weak example of what Cuban cigars can be. And I think it just does not belong in the, in the conversation. I do not recommend it. I never will. I will never smoke one of these cigars [01:25:00] again. I absolutely hated it.
I almost hate Puerto Guaraniaga at this point, for the way it's performed tonight. You know,
**Bam Bam:** just make sure you tell us how you're really feeling. Yeah, I am. Don't be shy, Giz. Yeah, don't hold it back, will you? You're bordering on hyperbolic.
**Grinder:** Oh, yeah. And aggression.
**Gizmo:** Poop is in the house. Correct. What Senator said Oh, that would be a joke.
If Pupo was here, this would have gotten a one or a two tonight. There's no question about that from him. But it's really one of the worst Cuban cigars I've had and uh, it's, it's a, it's a huge bummer. And to Senator's point, I mean, the effort that we had to put in, I feel like, like Rooster said, half of my lighter is empty.
I must have re lit the cigar seven times tonight. As we were talking and, and, you know, had, had it not been for what we do here and for you guys being here in the conversation, I, I absolutely would have trashed it and I'm trashing it now. It's a four, one of the worst Cuban cigars I've ever had. Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** Oh, need I say something now?
I'm just saying, after all the commentary, it's like, uh, yeah, you look at the ashtray and [01:26:00] it's, in some cases, it's a bit more than a third of a cigar in most of the ashtrays. It's, it's very rare that we, you know, come across cigars like this. Um, yeah, it did. light up well. I thought I got a reasonable smoke output in the beginning, even though it wasn't burning evenly.
We did have to touch up the Sakara quite a few times, but no very distinct note for me. You know, good, very muddled of sorts, wasn't really enjoying it. And then, I think a little past the halfway point, it became unpleasant for me. So it's very rare that I drop cigars, especially if I can keep, you know, just smoking, uh, them, uh, because the smoke output, uh, but I had to put it down.
Um, it's, uh, it's a five for me.
**Grinder:** Yeah. Grindr. I think I really enjoyed the cigar to begin with. At the beginning, rather. And, um, had it, had it maintained that performance, I would consider, I would have considered a six or a seven. It didn't have a [01:27:00] ton of extra flavor. I think what it had was, uh, was unique and interesting to me in the beginning there.
And I also don't, like, I like other, we all like non Cuban cigars. I don't use an expectation for a Cuban cigar as something that, like, I don't think that's a demerit to use the word we use often, right? I, I think, um, To have that misplay, you know, have those expectations and then not meet certainly is disappointing.
But I enjoyed the flavor that I got from it because it was reminiscent to some, some Nicaraguan cigars that I really enjoy. And that Rosada wrapper, I don't know if it's a Rosada wrapper, but it's a reddish wrapper. I, I felt that. Provide a lot of flavor. Had it maintained that performance, I would have given it a six or seven, like I said, but it, because I had, because at probably halfway through, maybe in the final third, it really took a turn to stink town.
Like it just, it. I use that word ashy. It was ashy. Like every time I draw, it felt like I was inhaling [01:28:00] an ashtray, to be frank.
**Rooster:** Because I think you were relighting it so often. And, and, and that's, and, and,
**Grinder:** and, and to throw in the mix that I also had to relight it every, every, every so often was, was, you know, firmly put it into, uh, you know, a five or a six, definitively a five.
Uh, I don't think it's something that I want to trash as hard as a, as a four. Uh, but for me, it's a five
**Bam Bam:** Bam Bam. Yeah. So I didn't have any of the construction issues that you guys had. I relit my cigar, relit it. I edged it twice. It smoked consistently. The burn was pretty consistent. You know, early on that, that first half inch was pretty good.
The, the middle was very muddled, but smokable. And honestly, as I got down to that final, inch and a half of the cigar. It was decent. Um, I'm not going to go as far as a four or five. I'm at a six. Look, anything under a seven is an awful cigar in this room. So I'm not going to go that deep. But for me, I think a six is a fair score from my experience.
And I think just [01:29:00] Shows how inconsistently made the cigar is.
**Rooster:** You must have gotten the original release from 2014. Could be. It could
**Gizmo:** be. He must have poured some water on his. I poured rum on mine. All right, boys. That puts the former lizard rating tonight on the Cuban. Porwar is number one. At a 4. 9 horrible cigar.
The other thing, I mean, number one, I think from a programming standpoint, that's probably the first time that in our discussion, I've not pushed to how's the last third, or we're moving into the last third of the cigar. That's the first time that's ever happened in 146 episodes or whatever this is, 145 episodes.
And I think number two, I think to look around the room, And how many of the guys didn't finish the cigar? We've had cigars in the past that haven't been finished. I, just like Senator, I think this might be the first cigar that I put down as the, the last third was beginning because it was so bad, it, it really just did not perform the way it should have tonight in the room.
I'm kind of [01:30:00] curious
**Rooster:** about guys who love the cigar. I'd like to hear back from them.
**Gizmo:** Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** that'd be
**Rooster:** great. To hear like what box codes or what, you know, what, what years they're talking about or what do they like about it? Or do they all have burn issues or, you know.
**Senator:** Performance issues, construction issues.
And I'll say this, I would believe it to be entirely possible that there are certain years of this cigar that maybe are good because There were moments that we got flavor notes that we liked. It was just so fleeting. And so in a good year with a better role than most of us in this room got, sure, I could believe that's possible, but it's just, you know, there's always variation in all cigars, especially Cuban cigars, but this is a huge Delta of like, yeah, this can be either awful or good.
That's not something that I'm willing to pursue.
**Gizmo:** This is one that to your point. And from what we've heard from listeners to the point where lizard Peter wrote us saying, I like the cigar. What else do you recommend? That's kind of in the same range. Obviously stick with the other stuff you have. [01:31:00] We're not, we don't have nothing to point to here, but it could just be that we got a bad box and, and it's just bad tobacco in this box or it was poorly blended or something got screwed up that day when they rolled these cigars, that this performed the way it did tonight.
And so consistently across the room. That's very rare. Yeah. And it's not good.
**Bam Bam:** It's also shocking that this Mark, I happen to love this Marca. It's surprising to have had this experience. They could have had a golf outing
**Senator:** that day.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, let's compare this to the other poor Warren Yaga we've done on the podcast.
We mentioned the three others. This is the fourth and final in regular production for us with poor Warren Yaga. First, we did the Petit Corona on episode 34, scored an 8. 4. The Galanus, the Robusto on episode 88, scored a 6. 0. And the Monocarlos on episode 123, scored a 7. 5. Inconsistent. The other thing I wanted to do, because we've talked about the hermosus number four, Uh, the Tola before on the podcast, let's compare it to the other hermosas.
Number four, [01:32:00] we've done first from El Rey del Mundo, the schwa Supreme on episode 22. Oh yeah. Scored a 7. 8. We'll have to revisit that one someday because I think, uh, that was an awful
**Bam Bam:** cigar. And I think there are better, better expressions of that stick.
**Gizmo:** Exactly right. The Connie one from H up and on episode 96 scored an 8.
6. That was a good cigar. The Raphael Gonzalez, Corona Lonsdale, the new one from them, episode 105, scored an 8.0. The SLR Regis on episode 52, we did that when with, uh, Dan Sini scored an 8.8. And finally, the Vegas Nia FSOs on episode 119 scored an 8.8. The only other in regular production we haven't done yet on the podcast is the Romeo Julietta exhibition number four.
Which, uh, has to be done at some point in the future. So that is the full line of regular production, hermosos number fours. And that's it for tonight, boys. Again, on the floor to Kanye seven year aged rum, we scored a [01:33:00] 9. 8 and on the poor Lauren Yaga, Pico Doris, number one, we had a 4. 9 thanks to all the listeners for writing in, we really appreciate it.
Congratulations to Lizard Peter for winning Lizard of the Week. You can win, write us a great email, send us a voice memo, comment on our Instagram or our YouTube and you can win. Each week we're giving stuff away and of course thanks to our sponsor, Fabrica5. We really appreciate it and we'll see everybody next week.
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