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Parkinson’s: An Athlete’s Journey is for athletes navigating Parkinson’s, the coaches and clinicians who train them, and anyone who wants real-world strategies for performance and longevity. Hosted by Eric Von Frohlich and Todd Vogt, the show focuses on tactical takeaways: how to train, recover, manage symptoms, and stay consistent when the rules keep changing. Expect honest conversations, tested routines, and guest experts who go deeper on what works.
Todd Vogt (00:32)
I've been rowing a fair amount on the water. had an atmospheric river last week here. And it was pretty intense. I moved to Portland in around 2001. Anyways, the way it used to work in the city, the city sewer system wasn't.
If there was a large rainstorm, the city sewer system couldn't handle it and essentially it would overflow and it would just flow untreated sewage would flow into the river. It's called the combined sewer overflow, the CSO. And Portland used to have these events like, I don't know, something like 12 a year or something like And what would happen a lot of times, I would go out for a row on the water and, you know, in a boat or whatever and single or double.
Eric Von Frohlich (00:58)
Wow.
Todd Vogt (01:06)
Then I jump in the car, head back home, turn on the local NPR station, and they would say, combine sewer overflow, don't go in the river, don't fish, don't swim in the river, and if you get splashed, make sure to clean your face. And I just come from spending an hour and a half on the river. That happened fairly regularly. So the city did this construction project, called the Big Pipe. Not the Big Dig, that's Boston, but the Big Pipe.
Eric Von Frohlich (01:21)
Right.
Todd Vogt (01:30)
They increased the capacity of the sewer system. And it reduced whatever, how many CSOs the city of Portland used to have prior to the completion Like I said, it was like 10 to 50, whatever, depending on the year. Now they have like one or two at most. So one of them was last week. And so basically, yeah. And we rode like the day after, so.
Eric Von Frohlich (01:47)
A lot.
Todd Vogt (01:52)
Good.
Eric Von Frohlich (01:52)
Did you ever
correlate getting sick with before they did this project with being on the water?
Todd Vogt (01:57)
I mean, that's
interesting, yeah, because that leads to a bigger topic in that, as we were talking about. I don't have any genetic, like sort of known genetic markers for Parkinson's, I don't have a family history of it. So I suppose it's potentially that there was some environmental exposure that I had. Yeah, and it could be, I mean, it could be the, who knows what it could be like. It could be that just given a couple of facts, like I didn't.
Eric Von Frohlich (02:15)
Yeah, apparently.
Todd Vogt (02:23)
Grew up near a golf course or anything like that. I just grew up in like a suburban house. I didn't work for like oil refinery or anything like that. I didn't work like Kevin Kwok. I don't know if you know Kevin Kwok. Another guy. He's this Asian guy who has, he was diagnosed with young onset Parkinson's a long time ago. He's in his mid-sixties now, but he was like, he lives in Colorado and he's pretty close with Davis Finney. And they, know, so he's a big cyclist. the point is Kevin worked for Dow Chemical back when he was younger. He like,
Eric Von Frohlich (02:35)
I don't know Kevin.
huh.
Todd Vogt (02:52)
were cleaning the chemical baths. yeah, point of view, there's nothing that I can sort of pinpoint as saying I had this massive exposure or I had like a ton of concussions. So I don't know. Yeah, I suppose it could be getting splashed in the face every day for an hour and a half, you know?
Eric Von Frohlich (02:55)
wow.
Yeah, it's it's funny talking about origins. It came up this weekend because we met a we met a guy randomly. I'll have to tell the backstory on it, but we met a guy and he brought up, you know, Paraquat and Golf Club exposure and golf courses and landscaping and stuff like that, which I had done landscaping for about five years when I was a kid and was
pretty exposed to Roundup in Paraquat as a result of it. And then I played a lot of golf. I was playing, I was on the course probably like three, four days a week in my twenties. And so I'm trying to pin down where the origin is because it's a question that everyone wants to know is when did you get diagnosed and what was the cause?
Todd Vogt (03:57)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (03:58)
Obviously, it be easier to point to genetics, but that only accounts for, I think, maybe 10 or 15 % of the cases. So I have no family history, no relatives that have it.
Todd Vogt (04:05)
Yeah, for sure, absolutely. Yeah, same thing. Do you have a family history as well? Anybody?
Yeah,
and you don't have any genetic markers, I think is what you just said, right?
Eric Von Frohlich (04:18)
No, but I had a couple concussions, but we didn't really record them, so we didn't keep track of them that much back when I was a youth.
Todd Vogt (04:22)
Yeah.
Yeah, how'd you get those?
Eric Von Frohlich (04:30)
⁓ Ice skating, played lacrosse for a bunch of years just primarily contact sports would be the most likely. I mean, I was climbing trees and jumping and running and doing all kinds of crazy boy stuff, but you never really kind of pinpointed it. We looked at TBI as a possible.
Todd Vogt (04:32)
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (04:51)
when I was searching for what was going on, I thought it might be concussion related. So I went down that path for a little bit and then that sent me down the neurology path eventually. was going to tell you a story. Deb was at a workspace the other day and she overheard a guy talking about his friend that has Parkinson's and
Todd Vogt (04:55)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (05:17)
they were going to go sailing. And so she kind of hears this. The guy sat up next to her and she kind of hears this for the first time. And she decides to leave him a note saying something to the effect of my husband has Parkinson's and I would be really interested in talking to you about this at some point. And sure enough, the guy calls her back and says
Todd Vogt (05:19)
Okay.
Eric Von Frohlich (05:39)
he started an inclusive rowing program for people with Parkinson's or disabilities. And so he has a specialized boat that has a seat in it that gives you a lot of back support. So it makes it easier to get comfortable on the boat. And at the same time kind of keeps you right in the middle of the action. And then it has runner to step into the boat with that kind of locks onto the dock.
Todd Vogt (05:42)
that's cool.
Eric Von Frohlich (06:06)
your balance isn't as much of an issue because obviously sitting down on the deck of the boat would be quite a bit of a challenge for most people with Parkinson's as well getting on and off the boat. spoke with him later that day and he invited us out to sail with his friend. And so we jumped at the opportunity. It was my first time sailing.
Todd Vogt (06:30)
Cool.
Eric Von Frohlich (06:30)
And
so we went out and had an absolutely fantastic time. It was incredibly relaxing. It was thrilling and exciting and everything that you can imagine it would
Todd Vogt (06:36)
Nice.
Eric Von Frohlich (06:41)
it just kind of came out because Deb's ability to multitask and overhear this conversation. worked out. His name is Christian.
Todd Vogt (06:50)
Nice. What's this guy's name?
Eric Von Frohlich (06:56)
And his friend is JP, ⁓ which is Jean-Paul. And they're both from Europe, and JP's from Amsterdam. And they've been lifelong friends and it's been quite exciting to hear their adventures and their support of each other through this sailing program.
Todd Vogt (07:04)
Okay.
⁓ cool.
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (07:20)
So I
definitely recommend it. If you come down this way, we'll have to get you in a boat.
Todd Vogt (07:24)
Yeah, certainly. Yeah, I've only done a little bit of sailing, so that'd be fun.
Eric Von Frohlich (07:28)
for I wanted to try to jump into like mindset.
The thing that made me want to talk about mindset was my opportunity to jump at this experience to sail kind of opened up a whole new window and a whole new community to me. And so it was super thrilling to realize that usually things happen when you say yes to the opportunity.
Todd Vogt (07:50)
Yeah, for sure.
Eric Von Frohlich (07:51)
It kind of leads itself to the concept of our journey is divinely guided and supported when you are open to it, as much as Parkinson's gets in the way and kind of gives us an excuse not to do things, it's kind of a blessing because it provides us with opportunities to do things that we never really would have thought of previously.
Todd Vogt (08:12)
I could see that, having sort of an open perspective to new possibilities.
Eric Von Frohlich (08:16)
You know, every challenge has its silver lining. And so as challenging as this particular moment is in our life's journey. it's providing opportunities to make new friendships and tap into different communities kind of appreciate the people's
who you meet's journey as well and kind of find the support that you need.
Todd Vogt (08:37)
Yeah, for sure. That I suppose, you we were talking about this before, Parkinson's provides you with an opportunity for emotional, spiritual, personal growth. There's plenty of ways to get spiritual growth and emotional growth. I'm sure that doesn't require getting like neurodegenerative disease. But Parkinson's is good at providing you opportunities at least for growth. If you can sort of appreciate that and get beyond.
Eric Von Frohlich (08:51)
It's not a requirement, but it's certainly an opportunity.
Todd Vogt (09:02)
the day-to-day struggles, you
Eric Von Frohlich (09:03)
Right. But, know, for the most part, you can attract the positive experiences that you want in life, despite Parkinson's. And so it's
Todd Vogt (09:10)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
Eric Von Frohlich (09:14)
so framing your day with the right mindset is super crucial and kind of find that the days that I struggle the most are the days that I don't recommit to setting a positive mindset and recognizing how much support I have and how much is kind of coming.
Todd Vogt (09:14)
it's strange that it's moving that way.
Eric Von Frohlich (09:31)
coming together to make life easier and make it more successful.
Todd Vogt (09:34)
Yeah, I'm thinking, it's hard sometimes to look beyond sort of the day-to-day struggles sometimes, know, at times. You know, when you're like struggling to get through your workout whatever, it's hard to sort of see the beyond that, you So it's easy to get stuck in the negativity.
Eric Von Frohlich (09:49)
Yeah, but I think that
Previous to Parkinson's, we had that same problem though. You you had to set a frame of mind that was trusting in your training program or trusting in your training or your recovery program. And you always had to kind of be upbeat about it and focused on it and try to find the best out of the time that you were committing to training as an athlete for whatever goal it was you're trying to
Todd Vogt (10:16)
Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (10:17)
We
just have to have this thing that makes it a little bit harder to do.
Todd Vogt (10:21)
Absolutely, I'm just sort of letting this idea roll around in my head here.
maybe Parkinson's because of its challenges.
makes it harder to discover. I don't know, maybe it keeps you in the present moment as well, Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (10:32)
Right, which is a blessing as well.
Because you kind of feel like the anxiety that you get is usually not with the situation you're dealing with, whether it's washing dishes or getting dressed or just kind of working your way through your regular life. Those challenges are challenging, for lack of a better word, but
you'll be stronger as a result of going through them and as a result you'll be able to deal with tomorrow when it gets here. I think it's ⁓ people freak out because they only imagine it getting worse and consequently if it's challenging now then how are you going to possibly deal with it when it's worse?
Todd Vogt (11:08)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (11:09)
So, but that kind of takes you out of the present state and puts you in the future state. And that's where your anxiety gets created is when you're trying to live life in a different timeframe than now.
Todd Vogt (11:20)
100%, I was reading somebody's book about describing suffering. Yeah, this is we make it sound like, going back to our previous episode, we're making it sound like, yeah, Parkinson's, and now we get to sort of find enlightenment or whatever. So yeah,
Eric Von Frohlich (11:34)
break.
Todd Vogt (11:35)
without Parkinson's that you can get more easily wrapped up in sort of day-to-day rhythm of life, can just kind of go to your job, go do what you gotta do in your daily errands. It's really easy to not be in the present moment because you can think.
like I fall nostalgically into the past, like two years ago I used to be able to capable of doing this. So in that aspect, You can be like overly nostalgic about the past and then you can be sort of fearful for what may happen in the future. And neither of those things keeps you in the present moment.
Eric Von Frohlich (11:53)
Right.
Right.
Where you can only really lock into being grateful for being here and for all the things that do work and for all the relationships that you have. know, gratitude has got to be greater than suffering.
Todd Vogt (12:06)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, we have one of these aura frames above our mantle, one of these digital little photo albums, And it's good, I love it, it's cool. When Heather and I are just watching TV at night, changes like every minutes, whenever it switches, I just kind of glance over and see what it switched
Eric Von Frohlich (12:21)
Uh-huh.
Todd Vogt (12:29)
Like a video will come up of say me rowing from say four years ago. know exactly where that is. be like, and I can say like, look at how good I'm rowing at that point. So it's real easy to be, yeah, like I said, overly nostalgic. Like, cause I'll see a video of myself on the water
say it's four years ago and think to myself like, wow, my technique looked good at that point. And then I find a video, a more recent video and say, okay, I can see how my disease has impacted my rowing in a negative way, just because I can't move my body the same way as I did them before.
it's easy for me to get stuck in the the thought process of, man, I'm thinking to myself, I used to be able to do X, but I can no longer do X now. so what I've tried to do,
be okay with what I'm capable of doing now.
And sometimes it's hard to do, like whether it's within, specifically in this context, like with rowing. So I just try to be happy, Like when I'm out on the water, I always say to myself at some point during a practice on the water, this is awesome. Even if it's hard, I still say to myself like,
I'm enjoying this and this is fun. Like I'll see bald eagles go by or like the boat is moving pretty well or I feel pretty good, you know, Exactly any day that I get to be on the water is like a good day basically
Eric Von Frohlich (13:33)
Yeah, you're still on the water.
Todd Vogt (13:37)
I've been trying to do a lot recently last like six months whatever or most of this year like because my symptoms have started to accelerate a little bit this year I've noticed
Eric Von Frohlich (13:45)
Uh-huh.
Todd Vogt (13:46)
So because of that, it's sort of, I've been thinking to myself, like, well, any day I get to be on the water is a good day still, you know? Whether it's a...
Eric Von Frohlich (13:51)
Well,
symptoms are no symptoms. Your 80-year-old self would trade places with you today at any given moment.
Todd Vogt (13:56)
For sure.
Exactly.
Todd in five years from now, in 2031 or whatever, is gonna probably say, oh man, I wish I could do what I can do now. you know, at point, Yeah, exactly, that's the key. Yeah, you hit it right there.
Eric Von Frohlich (14:05)
Yeah, I wish I appreciated it more.
You know, I think pretty much this is a struggle that every athlete goes through at some point in his life is you hit your peak and from then on you're struggling and fighting to hold on to it as long as you can. But unfortunately time has a different meaning to you as an athlete maybe than you do as an average person because you don't feel like that one thing that you were awesome at is behind you at this point.
Todd Vogt (14:20)
Yeah.
Yes.
For sure.
Eric Von Frohlich (14:41)
never coming back.
Todd Vogt (14:42)
I think I mentioned salt and Lake Acetis Remember the guy he mentions Tiff Wood his sort of main rival
Eric Von Frohlich (14:46)
yeah.
Todd Vogt (14:46)
I didn't
mention Tiff lives in Portland So when I moved to Portland winter of 2000, 2001, I didn't realize this, but he was rowing at the same club I joined, the Portland Bow Club. I went to this woman's Christmas party for the club and they're like, oh yeah, Tiff is in the kitchen. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You mean Tiff Wood, the Tiff Wood. So I went into the kitchen and I introduced myself and like, I guess you would say fanboyed and it was kind of awkward.
and then I started rowing with him a whole bunch, for the first two years, every time I rowed with him, I'm like, holy cow, I'm rowing with Tiff Wood, this is wild. So, I think I mentioned, he used to always do the indoor rowing race here in town. And so, this point, okay, so I was whatever, late 20s, early 30s, I had this sort of thought process about it, seeing Tiff,
Eric Von Frohlich (15:21)
Uh-huh.
Todd Vogt (15:28)
So he was probably like his mid 50s at that point. So he's still doing the indoor race, but he's going like, I don't know, like close to seven minutes, not necessarily like screaming fast for an elite level rower, you know? he's getting beat by a lot of guys who, know, if Tiff was in his prime, he would absolutely obliterate those guys. So, but I really appreciated Tiff like.
Eric Von Frohlich (15:40)
Right.
yet.
Todd Vogt (15:48)
became good friends with him. I got to know Tiff really well And he said the same thing basically ego was not at stake. Like he just loved training. He loves like training and he loved being on the water and he loved racing as well. And he didn't care, like he didn't have to win everything. You he did win a lot. Don't get me wrong, but.
Eric Von Frohlich (16:04)
Right.
Todd Vogt (16:05)
But he was okay getting beat with guys who at one time he would have crushed back in 30 years ago, whatever. So
I think he just enjoyed the process of the training process, like the sport itself and the racing environment. So
yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (16:19)
Well, I
get it a lot in Jiu Jitsu. If you're not willing to tap out and take the loss, you're very, very likely to end up getting hurt. In which case, you end up with a lot of downtime to reflect on that stupid decision on why you just didn't tap out and move on to the next sparring match.
Todd Vogt (16:26)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, your ego gets in the way, I'm sure.
Eric Von Frohlich (16:38)
Right, but there's definitely something to be said for that. I guess it's mentally prepared athletes that are able to do that. Your losses you forget very quickly and you move on from them and start training for your next event and your next race, or in this case, with Parkinson's ⁓ for another day.
Todd Vogt (16:57)
When you're like training and preparing for an event or a competition especially, you as the person who's training for it puts probably more emphasis on like the result, like as far as the outcome, you think it might mean a big deal, and you think that other people are gonna have a certain impression of you based off your results, right?
Eric Von Frohlich (17:12)
Great.
Todd Vogt (17:12)
But really like, nobody really as much as you do personally about the result, you know?
Eric Von Frohlich (17:18)
That's why you use the excuse that someone cares as motivation to train harder and to train longer and to train more lots of time.
Todd Vogt (17:25)
Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (17:28)
Competition isn't the form of ⁓ training or motivation for training, whereas if you can just optimize your best and use that as your barometer, you end up in a much healthier place.
Todd Vogt (17:39)
Yeah, for sure. For example, let's use rowing, nobody's gonna care whether I went 619 versus 622, you know what I mean? It's not, in my head, that's a huge difference, you know? But nobody's gonna care
Eric Von Frohlich (17:46)
Right.
Yeah.
Todd Vogt (17:51)
nobody's gonna be like, man, that guy Todd, I just don't wanna be friends with him, he's weird and he doesn't row very well. You end up attaching too much self-worth to these sort of...
Eric Von Frohlich (18:00)
Without question,
I mean, we see it every day in the gym, right? The amount of people that are focused on the mirrors remarkable to me because I've always found that the only people that benefit from the mirrors are the people that are looking at themselves. They're not looking at anyone else in the gym.
Todd Vogt (18:18)
One of my favorite podcasts, I think it's called The Science of Coaching. So it's these two track and field coaches. One guy lives in Portland, actually. used to coach at Nike. It's like Steve Magnus and Marcus something. podcast is great. I listen to it all the time. A lot of it is about track and field, but a lot of it is about mindset. was this morning I saw one of their posts on Instagram
It was talking about process goals versus outcome goals, you know? And they're saying, who more on the process and process goals generally much more successful and have a long-term career than people who focus purely on outcome. Being competitive
Eric Von Frohlich (18:38)
Mm-hmm.
Todd Vogt (18:49)
Striving for excellence, I guess you would say, is a good thing. if you can focus on the process rather than purely the outcome.
Eric Von Frohlich (18:56)
Yeah, definitely.
I'm much more process driven in my day to day activities that I stack to minimize the effects of Parkinson's.
Todd Vogt (19:08)
Absolutely. like get some movement, know, whatever that is, whatever you need to focus on, whether it's aerobic activity, strength training, flexibility, you know, exactly. Get a nap in,
Eric Von Frohlich (19:16)
Yep, stack in some nutrition, stack in some recovery, and you just kind of.
Todd Vogt (19:21)
because I had to take dog to the vet this like tweaked his foot. So
He had to get some radiographs. But the point is I had to get up earlier than I wanted to, so nap. That's my priority this afternoon. he's good. He's fine, actually. He was limping a little bit last week. He was kind of holding up his back right paw. And so we weren't sure.
Eric Von Frohlich (19:30)
How's the dog doing?
What kind of dog?
Todd Vogt (19:40)
He's a red lab, which is like a variation of a yellow lab, but he looks like, sort golden retriever color, but he's a lab. he's four, he's like four and a half. So he's pretty nuts, you know? So he's great. He's an awesome dog. Hank is an awesome dog.
Eric Von Frohlich (19:48)
Cool.
Does he have
identity complex, whether he's a lab or a retriever?
Todd Vogt (19:58)
No, he knows, his thing in the world is the chuck ball and like retrieving. He's really good. When you play ball with him, he's like a maniac obsessed. He'd play until his paws fell off.
Eric Von Frohlich (20:00)
He's all in.
Todd Vogt (20:10)
But he brings it right back to you, so.
Eric Von Frohlich (20:12)
That's great. I have a lab that doesn't really retrieve. He kind of gets it and he brings it like two thirds of the way back and then drops it.
Todd Vogt (20:15)
thank you.
Yeah, exactly. Hank is like really
smart. He'll bring it to you say two thirds of the way and you're like, like Hank here and he'll grab it and bring it and drop it right in my feet. I think he figured out that the closer he brings it to me, the more that I get to throw it for him.
I had to take him in and it's always fine. We got the results back. his ACL intact. We were worried about that. So they think he just like twisted his ankles,
Eric Von Frohlich (20:42)
Well, the beauty of the dog is they get you out and keep you active. And it's a daily reminder that you should be happy regardless of your circumstance, because it's not a moment that my lab is in bounding for joy, whether he thinks he's going for a walk or he thinks he's going to get a snack or I may even pet him on the head. He's always looking for like the best of every situation. of...
Todd Vogt (20:46)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
are
good in that regard. They're good in that they live truly in the moment, you know, so.
Eric Von Frohlich (21:11)
Yeah, I'm looking at my napping in the other room and he's enjoying that nap as much as you're going to enjoy yours later.
Todd Vogt (21:14)
Thanks.
So
yeah, I got a nice workout and I went and did a bunch of cardio, did a little lifting, do some contract work and then yeah, take a nap,
Eric Von Frohlich (21:24)
my morning's been filled with phone call from the cardiologist to review next steps on my AFib and my ejection fracture. And so I have a scheduled cardiogram. So I have to have to kind of dive down that world. And I think we're doing that hopefully in the next week or two.
Todd Vogt (21:30)
⁓ yeah.
luck with that.
Eric Von Frohlich (21:48)
Looking forward to kind of getting some of this hard stuff behind me so I can start training again with a little more purpose.
Todd Vogt (21:52)
Yeah, I know because you
like as soon as you start working out with a fib like you're saying as soon as you start going moderately hard whatever your heart rate will kick up super high, right?
Eric Von Frohlich (22:03)
Yeah, which makes it a little challenging to get in your, you know, use zone two training. it's a bit of a process to go through to check all the boxes and to make sure that you're going through this methodically and trying to stay positive and not get too sucked up in the
in the could've or would've or should've could happen this doesn't work out as well as you'd like. but the, thank you. I'll keep you guys posted. ⁓ What else you got on mindset? How are you doing
Todd Vogt (22:28)
Yeah. All right. Good luck with that.
Let's see. So I feel pretty good, let's I feel as though I'm a little bit in limbo what I mean by that, it's like sort of existentially. So,
Why do I feel that? Well, I've been looking for a job, like a real job, right? And it's hard. For the last 15 years, 2009, I've been either a full-time rowing coach or a full-time athlete, rower. So, before I was coaching rowing, I have a master's degree in biochemistry and I worked in academia for a while. But that was a long time ago. So if I wanted to coach rowing, I could probably get a coaching job pretty easily.
Eric Von Frohlich (22:50)
Right?
Todd Vogt (23:10)
However, if I took one to go back to collegiate coaching route, which is where all the real jobs are, I'd probably have to start NCAA division one program as an assistant, which would mean that job would be a grind. I mean, I've done that before. That's like, you're recruiting a ton, you're working a ton outside a lot and you don't get paid a ton. That's not a job. That's not a job for somebody who's 51 years old who's got Parkinson's, you know?
Eric Von Frohlich (23:22)
Right.
Right.
Todd Vogt (23:32)
That's a job for Todd when I was 35. That's what I was doing when I was 35. Pre-Parkinson, so that's kind of a bummer. This is one of the bummers about Parkinson's, guess, that I think sometimes about, is that it essentially took my career away from me in some regard, right? So now I'm trying to figure out what to do with myself career-wise. yeah, I'm still working out pretty hard and training pretty regularly, but...
Eric Von Frohlich (23:35)
Right. Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
Todd Vogt (23:57)
The reality is I've sort of come to terms with the fact that like, I don't feel good enough to do, to really honestly give that a shot. Because my symptoms have advanced a little bit in the last year, I feel like I'm rowing much differently, like I'm not the same guy I was two years ago.
Eric Von Frohlich (24:10)
much of that refocusing on your training and optimizing everything you can optimize? mean, is it or is it just really difficult?
Todd Vogt (24:19)
I think it's, honestly,
I think it is beyond possible. I think my disease has progressed such that it's really negatively impacted my technique. It's becoming harder and harder to row well on the water. a lot harder to feather and square with my left hand. So that really kind of messed up my technique. it's harder to sort of just relax my left arm really easily. It does all the crazy motion, so.
Eric Von Frohlich (24:26)
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Todd Vogt (24:41)
Now I've noticed like I'm getting a little bit of tremor dyskinesia in my left foot. So my left foot is like, so I'm like messing up the balance. These are all subtle things that most people probably wouldn't perceive. But.
Eric Von Frohlich (24:50)
Right,
but make a huge difference in performance on the boat.
Todd Vogt (24:53)
100%. So, like
Eric Von Frohlich (24:55)
Maybe
you need to recruit Tim as your training partner.
Todd Vogt (24:58)
That wouldn't be a terrible idea, right? mean Tim's a nice guy, that'd be fun too. And he would utterly destroy me every day, you know, so.
Eric Von Frohlich (25:02)
Right.
Yeah, but he can make up for if he's your partner on the in the boat, he could make up for for some distance.
Todd Vogt (25:08)
Yeah, exactly.
I've been, man, all right, here's, I'll try to bring some humor to this. So I've been applying for all these jobs. Like I was like, for a while there, I was like really interested in trying to get a pharmaceutical sales job as a pharmaceutical sales rep. They had this project with Eli Lilly over the summer, I was working with him and I have the science background
most pharmaceutical companies, sales reps previous pharmaceutical sales rep experience. Point is like, that seems like it's gonna be hard to crack into
Eric Von Frohlich (25:34)
They have a tendency to be rather attractive looking also.
Todd Vogt (25:38)
Yeah, exactly. So I found this like sales job with a Fortune 500 company, but it wasn't necessarily like a product that I was super enthusiastic about. I was like talking to the guy and he was like typing it up and I'm like, okay, maybe I could be a sales rep for this company.
I finally wrapped my brain around it. I applied last week, I talked to the guy and I'm like, okay, this could be good. If nothing else, it'll give me health insurance. I have health insurance through Heather, but with both of us on her policy, it's pretty expensive. So I was like, okay, give me a halfway decent salary, give me health insurance. And I was like, I can sell these products, I can get behind this, whatever.
And I was like, well, after a year or two, maybe I parlay this into something else. here's the crazy part, the job requirements on the application were like, was it like high school diploma or GED and like a year of sales experience. was like something. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, And I had a reference from this
Eric Von Frohlich (26:29)
as low as you can start with.
Todd Vogt (26:33)
I applied and I'm like, all right, I'm gonna get an interview talking to this guy. I was like enthusiastic about it. And then of course I couldn't even get an interview. I was like, God damn it. I lowered my personal expectations like way down here. I didn't even get a goddamn interview. my language.
Eric Von Frohlich (26:37)
wow. Overqualified.
Yeah, it's a challenge. mean, that's one of the first things people seem to ask they find out how long you've been diagnosed or what year you got diagnosed and what caused your Parkinson's. The third question is always, so are you working still? And the majority, I never kept a poll of what it seems like, it's probably close 75 % are not working.
Todd Vogt (27:05)
Yeah.
Exactly. Yeah, I mean this
Eric Von Frohlich (27:19)
and 25
that are all working are in companies that they set up and founded and they still have legacy in.
Todd Vogt (27:26)
Yeah, I'm connected to the Brown Grant Foundation. We have a Young Onset Parkinson meetup. It's like the first Monday of the month we meet at a local bar. But yeah, speaking to your point, that's one of the questions that's interesting and clearly like within the Young Onset group, that's like the really big challenge is a lot of people who are first diagnosed are like, their thought process, like what does this mean for my career? Or there's a lot of people within the Young Onset group who are now like in their early 50s and.
Eric Von Frohlich (27:30)
Mm-hmm.
Todd Vogt (27:49)
Yeah, a lot of them are either on disability or early retirement, things like that. Anyways, that's on my mind too a little bit. Yeah, I'm battling my mindset a little bit.
Eric Von Frohlich (27:56)
Ready to...
Yeah, I'm kind of struggling with that same concept and maybe this becomes a we'll have to explore in depth. But it seems as if the will and the drive and the motivation are in place this out, it's probably going to require an entrepreneurial outlet versus anything else. You're just going to have to start something it and create
Todd Vogt (28:21)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (28:27)
a brand or a service that supersedes your symptoms of Parkinson's, or at least offsets that.
Todd Vogt (28:34)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a good point.
We were talking about nostalgic.
Every athlete I suppose, elite athlete, whatever sport, at some point you come to terms with the idea of guess like retirement from elite sport. Even if you continue to play your sport afterwards, there's some point where you, you're not gonna be able to compete at that level, at the elite level, whatever that level is, right?
like you're 45 year old
Eric Von Frohlich (28:54)
There's always pickleball.
boxing for that matter.
Todd Vogt (28:58)
Sure.
Eric Von Frohlich (28:59)
You know, but that's why they make pickleball.
Todd Vogt (28:59)
Go.
Exactly. I think there's a difference with Parkinson's though. didn't, feel as though I'm being forced to make this decision by coming to terms with the reality because I can't do it anymore. Not because I don't want to, you know,
that's the same thing.
Eric Von Frohlich (29:13)
Well, at least you
still have the drive to want to do it. I mean, that says a lot because we talked about apathy a lot and how that takes away the will to actually even pursue the goal.
Todd Vogt (29:16)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, there is a little bit, I've experienced a little more of that than I ever have in the last year, but it is, yeah, that is a part of it too.
I'm sure this happens in NFL, NBA, hockey, MLB, golf, whatever. With people who have like a catastrophic injury, who would love to still be able to play, but you know, they got nailed and they blew their knee out and they're never the same, you know, so.
Eric Von Frohlich (29:45)
Yeah.
Todd Vogt (29:46)
and then forced to retire. I guess that's maybe what I'm equating it with.
Eric Von Frohlich (29:50)
As opposed to walking away from the game in some few, but not not not a lot of guys have just walked away when they were at their peak. And and probably the two that come to mind more than any others is Jim Brown and Barry Sanders that walked away from their careers when they were at their peak instead of theoretically they would have they would have returned to normal human levels as opposed to superstars and you know, and Hall of Famers.
Todd Vogt (29:59)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
That's a good rare that athletes get to retire on their Or like, guess like a lot of times, guys, their skills just like deteriorate such that like
the writings on the wall.
Eric Von Frohlich (30:29)
Right. And I think that that's, you know, has a lot to do with with what we struggle with or what people at Parkinson's struggle with is, is it's kind of that decision is taken away from you. But as an athlete, there comes a time where you can't compete at that highest level. And that's kind of been taken away from you. Time took it away from you as opposed to a disease. But the the end result's still the same and the struggle's still the same.
Todd Vogt (30:52)
Yeah.
so, okay, I can't really coach anymore because like Parkinson's kind of took that away from me training at the lead level is probably not practical anymore. Like I can't really do that. So it's like, what am I doing with myself then? It's kind of literally, I can't even get a goddamn job at a freaking like the stupid sales job. So it's like, oh man, what am I doing myself?
But that's okay. I guess technically only sort of retired, I don't know, not too long ago. I guess this is what I mean trying to give myself grace is like, I'm saying, think like, okay, this is a transition. Like, this is a life transition. Like, let myself go through this a little bit and get be a little okay with that.
Eric Von Frohlich (31:18)
World.
Yeah, think you have to find a certain degree of grace in figuring out another option. Maybe you have a great invention inside you, you just haven't given it time to germinate or solve this problem of an employment agency for people with Parkinson's.
Todd Vogt (31:47)
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
you, know.
Eric Von Frohlich (31:58)
irony, I say tongue in cheek, but the irony of that is you probably have people who are grossly overqualified do certain things that could still be valuable in the marketplace. And so you would serve both needs, one, the sense of purpose that it gives you to have work and meaningful employment. And at the same time, someone
to get that leadership and that ability at market cost. So I don't know, maybe we should start an employment agency.
Todd Vogt (32:30)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean seriously, I mean there's, this has to be.
Eric Von Frohlich (32:37)
would
solve our problem if we owned the agency. It solves our problem.
Todd Vogt (32:41)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
Eric Von Frohlich (32:44)
I'll have to mention that to Deborah at some point. I'm sure she'll get a kick out of it.