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We share our thoughts and ideas on how to grow a business.
We're gonna talk about the details of
actually implementing our GEO framework
to increase your AI visibility.
A lot of people think the AI rank
tracking is interesting and seeing what
they're showing up for, but then their
mind always goes to the same thing.
What do I do next?
Like, what content do I produce?
How do I improve the AI visibility?
We thought it was very important
to actually separate this out
so that you know what channels
that you want to improve.
We wanted to really prioritize
getting shown as a brand mention
in the product, and I'm gonna walk
through now how we think of this.
The first step would be creating
pages on their own website
that are specific to this.
Why would you run a broad scale PR
campaign or a broad scale Reddit campaign?
If you knew exactly what pages the
LMS were pulling from to display
an answer, you could actually just
do it for really targeted pages.
So we can see here it's actually
pulling answers from this.
Thread.
So instead of having a broad scale
campaign, just do really targeted
marketing at these threads that
the LMS are already pulling from.
Welcome to the Grow and
Convert Marketing Show.
Today we're gonna talk about,
uh, the details of actually.
Implementing our GEO framework
to increase your AI visibility.
We have a previous video.
If you haven't watched it, you
can still watch this one and watch
that later or start it there first.
It's called prioritized, GEO.
You can also find that article on
our website@growandconvert.com.
But Benji, you did a demo of our AI
visibility tool tracker, um, and recently.
To an actual customer or prospect.
And it was a great example that kind of
had all the elements of how to actually
take the framework of prioritize, GEO that
we've already talked about, where it has
these tiers of things that affect your
AI visibility and what we're doing for
our clients and via Tracker that actually
showed the topics and the prompts that
they are and they aren't showing up for.
In chat, BT Google AI reviews, it
kind of brought that to life of like,
okay, here's some actual results and
therefore here are the actions you
should take based on our framework.
Like what's the actual
tactical things like what do we
publish, where do we publish?
Do we do citation, outreach and pr?
And so we thought this would
be a really good actionable
episode to talk through that.
Yeah, so I think last week I probably
did five or so demos and I kept
getting the same questions over again.
So I, I think a lot of people think the
AI rank tracking is interesting and seeing
what they're showing up for, but then
their mind always goes to the same thing.
So, what do I do next?
Like, what content do I produce?
How do I improve the AI visibility?
And so I just wanted to do this video
to explain what I'm telling people on
the calls and how we're thinking about.
Using Tracker to inform our
own AI visibility strategy
for clients and for ourselves.
So I'm just gonna pull up
this screen share here.
So this is the person that did the demo.
This is the the Tracker
account that we set up.
I'll just give a high level
overview of how Tracker works
and some of the differentiators,
and then I will come back.
And explain how we're
doing the visibility.
So a few key things just in terms
of how we built Tracker a little
bit differently than a lot of
the other products out there.
So the biggest thing, and I think
the biggest thing that people.
Came in saying they wanted,
uh, our product for was a lot
of people had challenges with
the accuracy of the results.
And this was something that we
actually experienced with Tracker.
The first, the accuracy of the results
in other AI tracking tools, you mean?
Yep, exactly.
And so in the email when we announced
this to our list, we had said that the
data accuracy is, is really strong, and
that's because we built the product in.
A different way than a lot of
the other tools approached it.
A lot of the other tools approached
doing visibility through, uh, the API.
So they used an API to run these
searches, and we had initially
done that in the first product.
And what we found was that when you
ran these searches using the API
and then someone from the company
ran these searches on the side.
That they were actually
seeing two different things.
Uh, the, the tool was saying that they
were showing up for certain queries,
and then when people were running these
searches in their browser themselves, they
were seeing completely different results.
And so when we rebuilt it, we
wanted to solve for that problem.
And so what we did is we're
actually scraping the data.
So we're running these searches in
a logged out browser to mimic how
someone would actually do this.
In person, and then we're taking
screenshots of that and bringing that in.
I can just show that here really quickly.
So you can see in the tool, this is
the screenshot that is being taken.
So when we're actually running the
search, we take a screenshot and then
the data is being brought in down here.
And you can see we're highlighting the
client's organization when they show up.
And we're also showing.
Where in this list they show up as well.
I should say like, I don't know
if, if folks are following us
through this show on your podcast
feed or YouTube and you haven't.
You're not on our email list.
You may not know this.
So just as a background, when
Benji says the first version, we
have completely rebuilt Tracker.
So internally we're
calling it Tracker 2.0.
It's the same, but if you watched
our previous video or podcast episode
when we introduced Tracker months
ago in the summer, five months ago,
that was a very different product.
And even that one used the API.
And for those of you
that are curious, like.
What is, how does that work and why does,
why is Benji saying the API is different?
Just like a quick semi-technical
background is API that these
LLMs use, like open AI's.
API is like, the way I got it
explained to me really nicely by a
developer is that's like raw access.
To the underlying GPT model that
powers chat, GPT, but the web product
that we're all used to using in your
browser or in the app on your phone,
that's called Chat, GPT, it takes that
model, but it has all of this training
of that model to create a public
facing chat product called Chat, GPT.
So it's like the API is like
a raw access to that model.
But chat sheet BT has what's called like
system prompts, which is open AI's team
kind of training it to respond in certain
ways and whatever to like, you know, be
useful to a billion humans that use it.
And so when you.
Are checking your AI
visibility via the API.
You get really different answers.
Not like you're asking, you know,
list the best content marketing
agencies and the API gives one list
and Chachi PT gives another list.
That's true.
But what we were noticing is
the API would just answer the
question in a different way.
You would type like content marketing
agency or best content marketing agency.
And it would, the API, for example,
may just like discuss the idea of
content marketing agencies and then
you type it into your web browser
in actual chat GPT, and it would be
like, here are the top five agencies.
And we were like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
This is just like not helpful at all.
And so that's why we ended
up, we're, we're now going in.
Opening browsers and doing
all that in the backend.
When we're running these
searches, were like web scraping.
And that was really hard to do.
Um, and it took months to pull off,
but that's kind of the, the background.
Yeah.
Thanks for that.
Uh, and then going back into here, so
another big thing is you'll notice in
a lot of the other visibility tools,
let's say profound peak, they, they use
some sort of blended visibility score.
And I think that's largely
because if it wasn't blended.
What we're seeing across almost every
client is that the chat GBT visibility
percentage is much smaller than perplexity
and AI overviews, um, just because they
have a completely different algorithm,
uh, to answer questions and prompts.
And so they're just blending it
together to give you one score
so that your visibility seems
higher than it actually is.
We thought it was very important
to actually separate this out
so that you know what channels
that you want to improve.
And I will explain this a little bit
more in a second, but essentially if
you dig into any of these, you can kind
of see this just in how, uh, this is
looking at the citations for this query.
Look at how many more.
Chat GPT has, so they pull from 26
different sources here to answer
this question versus perplexity.
Perplexity has eight.
Google AI overviews has 13.
So yeah, you can see it's, it's over
double the other platforms, and I think
that's one of the reasons it's much
harder to show up here is because you
need mentions across a lot of these
different sources as opposed to maybe
just needing mentions across fewer.
In some of these other platforms, and
I'll go into this in a second when we're
talking about how to actually improve
this and how we're actually thinking
about the strategy of this, but that was
a big differentiator, is just showing the
visibility per by channel and making that
really visible in the product instead of
trying to hide it and having some dropdown
to see, uh, the visibility by channel.
Another key thing was just distinguishing
brand mentions versus citations.
We thought it's really important to
distinguish these two things because
to us, a brand mention is really
the only thing that's important in
terms of reporting to the client.
Uh, we'll, we'll talk about how to
use the citations in a little bit to
inform the strategy, but yeah, just
as ranking in Google, if you were
ranking those top three positions.
It's gonna be really beneficial
for your brand and your company.
Getting a brand mention
is the equivalent of that.
It, it's when you're asking for
what are the best software options
for designing steel connections
for Bridges, it actually lists your
product name in the answers here.
That is the most important thing is
that your company shows up here because
it's very rare that someone is going to.
Go into chat GPT, then go through
each of the different articles on
the side and go to the site and
read all the articles that way.
I think people are using AI and
chat GPT largely for quick answers.
And so if you're not showing
up in that quick response.
Uh, it's very unlikely that the
prospect is going to go into each of
the citations and read those articles.
So we wanted to really prioritize getting
shown as a brand mention in the product.
So if I can kind of add
some commentary, like Yep.
The two things you just said,
just to distill it down.
Be careful.
Look like you don't have to use Tracker,
but we, we genuinely think we've built
it very thoughtfully to be as actionable
as possible because we're not like
random tech bros that are trying to
like release a product 'cause AI is hot.
We're literally doing this
'cause we have 20 clients who
are saying, SEO is great guys.
We appreciate the rankings.
Also, can we rank on
LLMs and AI visibility?
So this is like our day job as well.
And so we built it to sort of be as
actionable and real as possible from.
Our perspective as actual practitioners,
but whatever tool you use, be careful
of the two things that Benji just said.
Number one, if it's giving you a
single blended visibility score.
E, even if you can dig in and click
around to the tool and find other
things, if the main thing the tool
shows you when you open it up is a
single blended visibility score and a
graph there, just be careful that it's
not making you not think about the two
things Benji thought about, number one.
What AI platform is that
visibility score being dominated
by if you bring it back up?
Well, we can't probably show
all of our clients visibility,
so maybe don't do that.
But I can tell you that client after
client chat PT has much lower visibility
than perplexity and AI overviews.
And you can talk about why that is,
but like that's important and that's
what you're Bundy is saying is like
that leads to actionable stuff.
Whereas if you just have
a single number, 35%.
And actually it's 55% of
prompts you're tracking.
You have visibility on Google AI
overviews and 10% only on chat GBT.
You're actually not at 35%
visibility on chat GBT.
That's important.
And the second thing is this,
is that if that percentage
of visibility is really just.
You being in citations 35% of the time.
Then don't expect leads from AI because
as Benji said, like the, how many
times when you use chatt are you like
opening and scrolling through the 26
citations and clicking into the websites.
I almost never do it.
Some people do.
You'll see that as source
referral traffic from chatt.
It's not zero, but.
A brand mention is worth in my mind, like
10 50, a hundred x more than a citation.
And so just like, that's why
we built it with these details
because as practitioners that
stuff matters to our clients.
Our clients are saying, I'm
not getting leads from Chachi.
BT like matters.
Whether it's just, oh, you're citation
number 17, or it's literally listing
your brand to the user and saying like,
here is a really good X, Y, Z type
of software or agency or whatever.
Yeah, so now I want to get
into the how to a little bit.
So yeah, when people see this, they're
like, great, this is really interesting.
I can see by topic and this,
this is another key thing that
we improved from version one.
Version one was more keyword oriented.
This one is more topic oriented.
And so essentially the way to think of
this is, this is a high level topic.
It could also be somewhat of a keyword,
and then what the tool is doing is
it, it's coming up with questions.
Around this topic area that
would be relevant for a prospect
to actually enter into a chat.
And then there's no real, I
would say, science behind this.
A lot of the other tools as well as ours
are kind of doing our best guesswork
at guessing what questions people
are asking around this topic area.
But this is informed by
the onboarding process.
So you in, in the very beginning.
You give it information about the
product and the service and who the
customers are, and that's how it's
coming up with these questions.
The way that we're thinking about
this is then if you're showing up for
a lot of these different questions
with branded responses, then you
have a pretty good probability of
showing up for a lot of different
questions around this topic area.
And so that's kind of how we're thinking
of this and, and this also is in
contrast to what we were disappointed
with when we looked at other tools.
Again, because our clients were like,
Hey, like we want to track this.
And we looked at other tools, is everyone
is guessing the prompts, just an FYI.
If you start using these other AI
visibility tools and here they're like.
Here are the prompts you're ranking for.
They don't actually know.
It's just a guess.
Nobody has the Google search console
of chat T. And then when you actually
ask people how do they use chat, GT,
which we've done to our clients that
have found us on chat GT, we've said,
can you literally share the chat?
It's not reproducible.
They're not typing in opening chat
GT in a single new chat and saying,
best content marketing agency.
Enter.
They're having a long conversation
about their business and along
the way the concept of delegating
content marketing naturally comes up.
And so that's not reproducible.
And so our take is we don't actually
know in the AI world exactly
how the user is gonna ask about.
Such and such product type
that is your product type.
You don't know the exact phrasing.
That's very different from the
traditional Google, SEO, where
you're like, here's the search volume
for this exact term, or whatever.
And so our thing is none of us know,
including us, including these other tools.
So instead what we can say
is what Benji just said.
Let's do it on a topic basis.
So the top one best structural design
software is important for this company
who sells structural design software.
We don't know exactly how the user's
gonna ask, but we can ask about
it in four or five different ways.
And by the way, you see an add
prompt button if it's something's
really important to you and you
want to ask in certain ways, you
can add 10, it doesn't matter.
You can add however many you want.
And then you say.
If we're asking in five different ways
about best structural design software,
and you're not mentioned in this case,
this brand is not mentioned by chatt.
Even once in any of those phrasings,
chances are however, an actual
user asked about best structural
design software, you're not gonna be
mentioned versus this other one that
you're showing on the screen now.
Steel Connection calculation software
if they have a hundred percent.
We asked five different
ways every single time.
Their brand was mentioned on perplexity
every single time their brand was
mentioned on Google AI overviews, and
60% of the time it was mentioned on chat
bt, so they're probably good to go again.
Thinking of Tracker as as
actionable as possible.
This is not the place where they
need to be doing a bunch of work and
producing content because it looks
like 60 to a hundred percent of the
time, no matter how you phrase the
question, you're being mentioned.
So you're probably gonna be mentioned
whenever a user actually asks about it.
That's the thinking behind this topic.
Grouping.
Yeah, so I thought this was a really
good example to show people because
the person who I did the demo with had
been following us for a long time, had
taken our course so had implemented.
A lot of our thinking just in terms
of going after pain point SEO style
keywords, and he had produced a
lot of content and as you can see.
Just outta the box without really
doing any AI visibility work.
They're already doing a very
decent job of showing up for a lot
of the different terms that are
very important to the business.
So his next question on the call
was just, okay, yeah, this is great.
Now what do I do to actually
improve visibility, let's say for
best structural design software.
And this BIM enabled
structural design tools.
So it was interesting as I probed him and
I started asking some questions around
what kind of content he had on his site.
He said, yeah, they had a ton of content
on steel connection calculation, on
connection design software for engineers.
'cause these are kind of
the most important specific
keywords for their business.
And they didn't have as much
content around just best
structural design software.
And BIM enabled structural design tools.
And so if we just now think back
to the last video, or if you
haven't read, prioritize, GEO, that
is something I would, uh, read.
And Davis, I don't know if you have
that up and you wanna share maybe
the, the pyramid really quick, but
I think that helps set the context
for how we think about this and
then go into the details on what we
would actually recommend to people.
Yeah.
So quick overview, our
strategy represented in our.
GEO Pyramid says, the foundation of your
visibility is from these two things.
Tier one, the bottom foundation
is owned content, and the way that
gets you visibility is by the L. It
exposes you to the LLMs when the LLMs.
Use web search to supplement their
answers and decide on their answers.
In LLM terminology, it's called grounding.
They're grounding their answer
in reality via this data
source, which is like Googling.
That's what they, you know when
you over, you type something in
Chacha PT and it says, searching for
this, searching the web for that.
That's it's grounding.
That's how your best bet.
To influence the LLMs answer
is showing up there because the
alternative is showing up in
training data and that's very opaque.
It's hard to do.
We don't know how often they updated it.
There's two ways to then show up when the
LLMs are searching the web to supplement
their answer or ground their answer.
You can show up with your own content
on your site or tier two, you can
show up on other people's content.
That's that they might discover when
they, when the LLMs Google stuff and
your brand is mentioned in their content.
Why do we have tier one
as more foundational?
The foundation of the
pyramid over tier two.
We go into that in the article, but
in short, it's because you have more
space in your own content to explain
the details of your positioning
and your product so that the L LMS
understand the context and it knows
when to mention you because the user.
That it's, that it's chatting with,
it has some specific pain point
and it's read your thing and it's
like, oh, like this is the type of
product that would be good for them.
Um, whereas offsite mentions you have only
a short, like you can, you know, kind of
have maybe a couple sentences or sometimes
just your brand name and, and the other
thing is like, you just control this.
Like offsite mentions, if you're
doing all this work on Reddit and
then chat bt a, a month or two ago,
the amount of sources that it pulled
from Reddit dropped drastically.
You're like kind of screwed.
Whereas in your own content, you,
you, that that risk is lower.
And so I go into more reasons,
but that's the foundation.
And then tier three.
Ironically is what we are feeling
everyone online is talking about, but
we think it's the least important thing,
which is like these onsite tactics and
content tweaks, like add these bullet
points to summarize your content.
Try LLMs txt, which has been.
Proven by many people, including
our own studies and not really do
anything and, and all these like FAQs
and reword your headers as questions.
That's all just like tactical
stuff whose aim is to get LLMs to
better understand your content.
We think that's not as important.
They're literally LLMs.
The whole point is that they can
understand English language really well.
So instead expose yourself to
them when they are searching their
web to answer the user's query.
That's your number one
way of influencing them.
And, and we think the, the place to start
the foundation is make sure you have
content on your site that shows up for
the topic areas that are important to you,
which I think is a good transition back to
this example that you're walking through.
Yes.
That helps set the stage
for now what to actually do.
So yeah.
Now going back to this one feature
that we built into the product is this.
Thing that says improve visibility
here, we did this to help the product
be actionable in terms of what steps
can you take to improve visibility.
And I'm gonna walk through
now how we think of this.
So to set the stage,
the the tier one part.
This is meant to help you do that.
So if you don't have content on your
site around this topic area, so if you
haven't ever written a post content,
uh, connection design software for
engineers, that would be something
that we recommend doing first.
So produce a post on that rank for it.
And then these are some of the questions
that you may be able to include in
that blog post to help you show up for
visibility around these, these prompts.
And then here you can see.
Okay, why?
The question that the guy
had on the phone was, why?
Why are we showing up so much more
for connection design software versus
best structural design software?
So quickly?
The answer is they just
didn't have content on their
site around this topic area.
And then I wanna show you something
when we go into the improve visibility
for each of the different topics,
and that'll really bring to light.
What the areas of opportunity that the
company can do to help improve this.
So if we go into this, you'll see
here most popular brands and sources.
So what the tool is actually doing
is it's reading all the prompts on
that topic, and then it's showing.
A list of all the brands that are
mentioned around this topic area.
And you can see the ID Staca
here is all the way down the
list, I think in the middle.
So I mean, they're not, they're not
doing a bad job at all, but they
have four mentions across all the
different citations in this topic area.
And then you can also see here
that they have two different cited
sources, uh, from, from their
website around this topic area.
And now I want to go back to this other
one and just show the, the, the difference
and then I'll explain what you can do.
So you can see for connection
design software, they're actually
the most mentioned brand out of
all of these different brands.
So they have 20 different mentions
across all the cited sources,
and they have the second highest
cited domain for this topic area.
And so just if we look at this
visibility, that is the reason.
That they're showing up more for this
topic area than this one, because they
have a bunch of pages on their site
that the LLMs are pulling as sources
of information to display an answer.
And on top of that, they're also
being mentioned by other sites
more than any other brand, which
is why that they have really strong
visibility in this topic area.
So what I would do with this information
is, to me, this is an area of opportunity.
Another thing that you can see down here
is which of the articles or pages are
cited by LLMs more than any other pages.
The first step would be creating
pages on their own website
that are specific to this.
So if they don't have a page that goes
after the keyword, best structural
design software for traditional SEO.
That is something that I would recommend
doing and then do traditional link
building to try to get that page to rank.
And that should help you, uh, get this
page cited as one of the sources here.
Now what else can you do
to help improve visibility?
So we've been testing something
called citation outreach, and this is
how we're using the tool to help us
inform where to do this outreach to.
So for this topic area, these are the most
cited sources and you can kind of see.
All these different pages.
So there's YouTube in here, there's
Reddit, but more often than not, it's
actually industry specific sites.
So these are some competitor sites or some
content based sites in their industry.
And some of those sites mention
the brand name idea, static of.
So what we're actually doing beyond
producing content around this topic
area is we're running outreach
campaigns to some of these sites,
asking if they can include this company.
As a potential company to
recommend around this topic area.
So for example, top bridge design
software, if the That post doesn't
include ID Statistica, you could
do an outreach campaign asking
if they would include them.
And then a lot of people have heard about
doing these broad scale Reddit campaigns
or just broad scale pr, and that's
really what's gonna help your visibility.
But.
In our point of view, why would you
run a broad scale PR campaign or a
broad scale Reddit campaign if you
knew exactly what pages the LLMs were
pulling from to display an answer?
So instead of doing some broad scale
Reddit campaign where you're paying
some agency or you're paying someone
on your team to go in a bunch of Reddit
threads and answer a bunch of questions.
You could actually just do
it for really targeted pages.
So we can see here if we pull
this up that it's actually
pulling answers from this thread.
So instead of having a broad scale
campaign, just do really targeted
marketing at these threads that
the LMS are already pulling from.
And by the way, this is why we think
this topic level, thinking of your AI
visibility is so important and actionable.
Like this is another reason, like I said,
the first reason earlier was because.
None of us know what prompts
people are actually entering.
And so at least you're saying, do we
have visibility on this topic area?
If we ask about it four
or five different ways.
But the other thing is that like thinking
of, you should actually be thinking
of your GI and GEO and AI visibility.
In a topic basis, because that,
like thinking of it as a holistic
thing is kind of nonsensical.
It's kinda like an SEO people would
be like, sometimes we get on calls
with clients and they're like, we're
like, what have you done SEO wise?
And they're like, you know, like
I, I bought some links, like we've
been doing some link building.
Or they'll use phrasing like our SEO,
like it was, it used to be really
good, but it's not good anymore.
And as an actual, like SEO
practitioner, you're like.
What does that mean?
What, what rankings?
Like tell me what rankings you had.
It's like, it's like just talking
about SEO in the abstract Similarly,
similarly here, when you're just
like, we have good AI visibility.
You're like, for what terms?
And similarly here, like for
topics, you're, this is Right,
is just doing Reddit marketing
to be mentioned on Reddit.
In, in, in, in a general
sense is kind of so random.
Instead it's, we want to be
on this thread because we're
literally seeing it be cited.
For a topic that we care about.
And we asked about that
topic five different ways.
And this one Reddit thread was
cited four times across three LLMs
and five different prompts that
that's how it becomes actionable.
And then last thing I'll say,
I'll give it back to you, is
we're gonna have a separate video.
What Benji's saying about like when
you actually look at the citations.
Which we are doing.
You start to see really specific
trends, and most of them are
very specific industry specific
stuff that are being cited.
We have a separate study that's
about to come out that we'll do a
video on where we're looking at.
We actually analyzed this across,
I think it was something like, you
know, I don't know, five, 10 clients.
It was something like 40 prompts
and two thou, no 2000 prompts and
40 topics or some crazy number.
Don't hold me to that.
Um, and we looked at it and tabulated
how many industry specific sites,
whatever are, we'll have a separate
video looking at those results.
Yeah, so now going back to this, again,
I think that's the most important
way that you can use this tool, is
to help with that second tier is.
Now that we know all these really specific
pages that the LMS are pulling from.
So again, this is not
the only Reddit thread.
There's one here, there's
a couple down here.
So just go run targeted campaigns
in those, get your customers or get
employees to go answer these questions
and that can help your visibility.
And then run targeted outreach
to all these different sites.
So Autodesk Bentley, like
there's all these specific pages.
Where there's doing, they're doing
comparisons or these are list
posts that you could get added to.
The more mentions that you have here,
the more likely you are to show up.
Visibility wise.
So again, what can you do?
You can go create pages on your site
as a step one and potentially not
only create a best structural design
page, but think of all the questions
people would ask around that topic and
create specific pages around those.
Create case studies around how
people are using your, your
product to help with those things.
Because if you think about how a
user is gonna go type something
in, they're gonna, they're gonna
say, Hey, I'm a structural design.
Engineer, I'm looking for a
product that does X, Y, Z. Show
me a list of the best ones.
And if you have case studies that
kind of have that persona in there and
and show how that person is solving
a problem, you're gonna be way more
likely to show up in these tools.
Having that, that detail and the
specificity in the blog post than just.
Only a list post.
And so I would say that's kind of
how you can use the tool to help
inform thinking is if you don't have
content on your site in this topic
area and you have low visibility,
create some content as step one.
Then step two is then use the
tool to then come in and see these
citations and see where you can
run these very targeted campaigns.
And so the way that I like to think
of this is it's very analogous to
link building in in the SEO side.
In traditional SEO,
you're creating a page.
You're building links to that page to
show Google that this page is relevant.
Now, the pages don't matter.
Like I, I think in traditional SEO it's
more about getting high domain authority,
PA or sites to, to link back to you.
In here it it's about figuring out
what these high authority pages are
that the LMS are already pulling from.
And instead of getting links, not
only do you need your site mentioned,
so it's not only just saying auto
static is the, the best idea.
Static.
Sorry, I just wanted
to double check there.
'cause I, I had a feeling I was getting
the name wrong, but it's not only saying
idea, idea static is the best, but what
the LLM is doing is it's looking across
all these sites and it's seeing how other
sites are communicating this business.
And then it's kind of taking a summary
of all those sites and rehashing it back
to the user who's searching for this.
So what's also important here is
how your, your company is positioned
across all of these different sites.
And so that's why we're, we're actually
using an agency to help us with this,
but our job as Grow and Convert is
to then look at how the company is
positioned and make sure that all the
key value props and the way that we would
communicate this business to a prospect.
Is in the actual page.
So not only is it important to get the
company included in, let's say this list
post, but it's important how the company
is communicated because how the company
is communicated across all these different
sites is essentially gonna influence
how the LLM describes the business.
And so even if it said IDSA is one of
the companies that you want to use,
but then it had some bad information
around let's say, who it's best
for or what the key features were.
Still not gonna be that
helpful for your business.
So it's important to do both.
Any other things that you would add here?
Yeah, so a couple things there.
You said, we're working with a
company, we're providing this
as a service to our clients.
We've partnered with what we're
calling a citation outreach company.
Um, that's basically the AI
equivalent of link building.
The other thing I'll say is like, it goes
back to this kind of tiered system in our
pyramid, and there's a simple way to think
about it if you're not even showing up.
If, if, if you don't have content
and you're not, and you haven't even
done SEO and you haven't done the
SEO fundamentals, you're not showing
up, like, frankly, what are you, what
are you doing thinking about GEO?
Like what's, what's your strategy like?
I'm, I'm open to it.
People can reply in the comments or
email and say, here I have this strategy.
That's GEO only without SEO.
But again, in our understanding of how
these LLMs work, what are you doing?
You have some inner inside track to
influence the training data of these
models, and you have no SEO visibility,
but you're like all over chat.
T if so, please email us and
tell us how you're doing it.
But that's not my
understanding of how it works.
So just like there's some people that are
like we, I wanna be mentioned by chatt.
Yeah, these things read content.
Like one way you could do that
is essentially run these outreach
campaigns across all these sites
and get your brand mentioned.
True.
I think, think, think that's
what a lot of people are doing.
But the downside of that and, and what
we're seeing across all of our clients',
tracker data is our article, our SEO
content around these topics are being
used as sources or like cited sources.
Yes.
As like the number one
through five sources.
Yes.
More often than not.
And so it is way more valuable for
you to be able to control your own
narrative in your blog post around
how you want to communicate the
value of your own business, and
then do the outreach to layer on
top of that instead of the inverse.
Yes, you can probably affect visibility
just by doing this, this outreach or
getting your site mentioned across
a bunch of different sites, but.
It's really important to use your own
content as the foundation for that.
Yeah, you're right.
You're right.
The answer to my own question is
the way you can influence and get
just GEO visibility without much
SEO is to just do the outreach.
Some people call it digital
PR or whatever, and if you're
mentioned in every other source.
That is showing up when these LLMs are
searching for a particular topic area
and you don't have your own content.
You're right.
You'll probably get
mentioned as a preview.
As a preview of this other video we will
do on who these sources are and how many
of these sources the LMS are citing.
Are these like general websites
like Reddit and Wikipedia
versus industry specific.
We also analyze Benji exactly what you
just said, which is how often in the.
Prompts and the results we analyzed were
our own client's content mentioned, and
the number is 88% of product specific,
like bottom of funnel prompts or topics.
So just like for idsa, whatever,
whatever construction software was
like kind of their bottom of funnel
term, it was like 88% of the time.
For the clients that we analyze,
like our existing clients, this, this
construction company is not our client.
Their own content was one
of the top domain cited.
Right?
And then the other thing,
so that's one thing.
Two more things I wanted to
add to what you're saying.
This whole idea of looking and seeing
what do, uh, articles and what threads or
whatever these LMS are actually citing and
doing targeted outreach to them, this is
another reason why it's important to have
scraped web results instead of the API.
The API results have very,
very different sources cited.
So if you are trying to get cited on the
API results, that's better than nothing.
It's better than nothing.
There's gonna be some overlap
with the web results, but the
web results are more accurate.
One more thing that I want to cover
here is just doing this outreach.
So again, there's a lot of people that are
talking about doing digital PR campaigns
and doing Reddit strategies and just all
these ways that you can get mentioned.
We've always taken the approach
O of being way more targeted.
Than doing this, the shotgun
approach to everything.
So there's a lot of people who in the
SEO world will do just broad scale
link building to their homepage.
We've tested that and we found that
building links to specific articles
is way more impactful to get rankings
for those specific pages on your site.
Then doing just broad scale link
building to your homepage, and we're
bringing that same thinking now to
AI where there's a lot of people
that are telling you, you should go
pay tens of thousands of dollars.
To do broad scale PR and getting on
all these different sites is really
gonna help affect your visibility.
That may be true, but is it really
worth spending the tens of thousands
of dollars to get on all these sites?
When you can see with the tool,
which pages on the web the LMS are
using as sources of information.
So instead of doing broadscale PR
link or Broadscale PR campaigns,
why not just go after the pages
that are already being cited?
And, and try to get in those, yeah.
It's gonna be way more impactful.
It's gonna be way less costly,
and you'll see the results of
that effort much more quickly than
doing this broad scale campaign.
And so I think that kind of sums up just
how we're thinking about this differently.
We're thinking about a very targeted
approach to AI visibility instead of
just all this general advice that's
being published on LinkedIn and on
Twitter and from other agencies about
just all these ideas that you should do.
It's like no, create.
Content on your most valuable talk topic
areas equivalent would be keywords.
In the SEO world, same,
same kind of thinking.
What are those most high
intent terms for your business?
Focus on those first, even when it
comes to producing content or doing this
outreach, focus on the key keywords first.
Like for us, it's gonna, it's gonna be
way more impactful to create a bunch of.
Blog posts on best content marketing
agencies, best SaaS content marketing
agencies, creating case studies
around that, doing visibility
campaigns around those keywords.
Then it is going to be doing, uh, this
kind of work around just a broad brush,
digital pr, where we want anyone and any
source and any website to mention us.
Actually, that's a perfect segue.
I wrote down two things that
I wanted to also mention.
I'm realizing that this was kind of.
Implied in what you're saying, but not
everyone who watches these videos has
seen everything we've published before,
whether it be videos or articles.
So I wanted to talk about two
more important parts to like
actionable GEO strategy underneath
what Benji has been saying.
And you just touched on it.
You said be targeted in, in the
topics like we want rank for SaaS
content marketing agency, or whatever.
So the two things I wrote down as like
core GEO strategy stuff is number one.
You pick your topics.
And number two, bottom of funnel
topics are really the ones you should
pick and the only ones that matter.
So what Benji's saying, and
that's kind of underneath that.
And you could see that if you rewind in
the video and look at the topics that you
just showed for this engineering company.
They're all extremely bottom of funnel.
This and that construction
software, this connection software.
It was like industry, say BIM or bim.
I don't even know what that means
or whatever type of software.
It's something that's specific to them.
Let me start with the first thing I said.
You pick your topics.
What do I mean and why?
That's I, why is that important?
What these other AI tools that we've
experimented with tend to nudge
and push the user towards when you
just, what their UX naturally pushes
you towards is telling you what
prompts you happen to be ranking for.
And what, what, what it does,
look, what we've tested is we
put in Grow and convert.com.
We try one of these other tools and
it'll be like, here are like 10 random
prompts that we're, that it, we think
you're mentioned on, and they're just
like, it'll be some random specific
prompt on this topic and a random
specific top prompt on that topic.
We don't think that's a good way
to do GEO strategy that that.
Who, who knows, they don't know
what prompts matter to you.
Instead, you need to dictate that
from the brand down, top down.
You need to sit down with a blank sheet of
paper or an open Google doc with whoever
the stakeholders are and say, what topic
areas do we care about showing up for?
So for Grow and Convert, it's content
marketing agency, maybe B2B, content
marketing agency, best content
marketing for GEO, how do I increase my
visibility on chat t whatever, right?
SaaS content marketing agency.
But that needs to be dictated.
Like I, I, I come like, I kind
of in my head I'm saying top
down the brand, you control that.
So like, instead of just being
like, oh, the AI tool told me that
this random prompt that I don't
know if anyone will ever put into
chat GBT that we're ranking for it.
That's not useful.
You dictate your strategy.
I have a good example of that.
So maybe a few months back, we got sent a
spreadsheet from one of the tools from one
of our clients and they said, Hey, we did
this competitive analysis on visibility
for some of our competitors and a lot
of our competitors are outperforming us.
And when we looked, when
we looked at the prompts.
This, this company essentially
does tour booking software.
Their main market is in Europe.
However, they're expanding to
the US and when we looked at a
lot of the prompts that the other
company was ranking for, it was.
Like top attractions in Minnesota.
And, and so if it, it like again,
how is top traction in Minnesota
going to help your business?
If you're a tour booking software
business, one, it's gonna attract
consumers, which is not your customer.
Two, it is just not even related to
your business at all yet the tools were
saying your competitor is doing way
better from a visibility standpoint
because they were just measuring.
Prompts that didn't
matter to the business.
And I'll tell you why that happens.
Why are they measuring
prompts that don't matter?
Because they're doing some AI analysis
in the background that's just like
associating terms randomly together.
So they're like, oh, like, oh, you provide
software to vacation and tour to, you
know, touring and vacation companies.
And so it was like, that's kind of related
to like top tourist sites in Minnesota.
But it doesn't have that understanding
that if it's, if this other
competitor is showing up for top
vacation spots in Minnesota, that's
not relevant to your customer.
Your customer is the tour company,
not the person taking a vacation.
Like for the marketer.
The human behind that, that's so obvious.
And if you rely on these tools, you're
just gonna get some like amalgam of
random prompts that AI is just guessing
is kind of related to your terms.
And you'll be like, oh,
our visibility is like 14%.
Why isn't it higher?
That's not how you should do GEO.
From a strategy level.
You need to decide what
topics matter to you.
And then that last part of this is those
topics should be entirely or heavily,
heavily skewed to bottom of funnel.
What does that mean?
Bottom of funnel means topics where the
user is asking about products or services
in your space, or like the one you sell.
Why because, and we can link to that
article in the show notes, but Benji
published an article months ago called
How AI Is Gonna Change Search That
Explain Top of Funnel is being killed
by ai because when you're doing a top of
funnel query some how to informational
intro guy, how does this work?
People now just read the AI in chat.
Bt you just kind of have
that interaction with chat.
Bt it explains to you content
marketing strategy or something
that we used to, you know, we would
rank for in Google or whatever.
They don't need to click to
our Grow and Convert article.
They'll just explain it, right?
And so how to do this and how to do that.
They just explain it.
So that's not useful.
What you need to show up for is
when the user is asking the LLM,
I'm looking for this type of
product or this type of service.
That's what you should prioritize.
That's why when you look in the
example that Benji walked through,
look at all of those topics.
They weren't like general construction
or engineering advice, how to do X, Y, Z.
It was this type of software, that type of
software, that type of software, because
the old, those are the only ones where you
have a chance of getting a brand mention.
And side note tracker tells you
when you hover over any of these
topics for an LLM, how many total
brands were mentioned at all?
And in and in fact, we have a
really nice update coming at the
end of this week or the week after.
So probably most of you watching
the video, you're gonna have
it already ready in tracker.
Where in that insight, improved
visibility, modal that Benji showed
at the top, we're gonna have this
analysis of the prompts that you put in.
How likely are they to mention brands
at all to push you and nudge you to an
actionable way of saying you should be
only tracking prompts that have some.
Chance of a brand mention probability.
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