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What sets this podcast apart? We believe in the power of meaningful marketing—a holistic approach that prioritises authenticity, connection, and purpose, whilst still turning a profit.
Chantal Gerardy is an International Award Winning Marketing Strategist who empowers purpose-led businesses to revolutionise their online marketing approach and create a brand that resonates deeply with their online audience. If you're tired of cookie-cutter marketing advice, and seek strategies that truly make a difference, this podcast is for you.
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Let's do this.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Meaningful Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Chantal Gerardy. Today I have Dan O'Sullivan with me, and we are going to be talking about Instagram and getting followers, and we're gonna be talking about metrics, and we're gonna talk about ego metrics, and we're gonna be talking about all the amazing things around short form content and how to get results, um, on social media.
Thank you so much, Dan, for, for coming today.
Thanks for having me. It's been, uh. I think it's been brewing for a while. Obviously we kind of have similar connections and now finally, you know, I live 15 minutes away, so it made a lot of sense.
Yeah. I'm, I'm soon, I'm, I'm gonna start running out of people in Burleigh soon.
Um, yeah, thanks so much for joining us. So. Firstly, I mean, how did you get into this whole Instagram's and going, let's say, viral kind of space of growing your followers? Because your claim to fame is that you went from 5,000 followers to half a million. Is that right? Correct. Followers on Instagram without ads.
Without ads without ads. Love it, love it, love it. Um, and that was through your other business, which is called Handstand. Is that right? Handstand,
yes. Yes.
Handstand. So tell us a little bit about your story.
Uh, so first off, I originally, you know, posted on Instagram, like more like a diary when that's the way Instagram was.
Just showing people, you know, I was in the fitness industry. So for me it was very much around my fitness, like daily things. Uh, it started with handstands. That's something that I just fell down a rabbit hole with. And what we did was we were, I was posting every day. Then I realized that people wanted to learn this thing, so then I became a coach.
In handstands. But more importantly, this went on for years and we kind of hit a stalemate, you know, it wasn't growing anywhere then and around, you know, 2070, and I put a bit more focus into it and I realized this could actually be a business. And I had always talked about moving online before it became COVID famous and everyone else did it.
Um, but it wasn't until 2022 that I actually started to change kind of the way I was doing it. So I went from this just. Hosting, sporadic, not really any kind of intent behind it. To then listening to, you know, the likes of Gary V who was saying, you know, get on these new platforms, try new things, and then when you actually see something that works, like double down on it.
So what we did was we very much looked at, um, the different executions. So what people now call hooks. This is before hook was a term. It was just like, you need to grab people's attention. So do kind of weird things that maybe will grab their attention and. Weirdly on Instagram, I always felt like these were personal people.
Like I had, you know, at the time, around 5,000 and I always felt like these are people who I know in person. So I was always like this nervous to try new things. So I can relate when someone now doesn't have a strategy and, and kind of is nervous. That was me. But then what I did was I used like TikTok 'cause I didn't really care about it because I saw more benefit of Instagram, but I started to try these new things and guess what?
When they started to pop off, I just. Maybe I'll try that on Instagram. Maybe I'll just put it there. And this was at the time when reels was only coming into fashion. It was, they had just released it. So what happens to the platform when they try and put out a new feature? Yeah, go and try it. Because they want you to try it.
They want some feedback and so they'll naturally push your page. Now what I did do is we trialed a, a specific thing. So we had a formula behind the real itself and the formula was this, like it, you know, highlight a problem. Give the kind of the stepping stones as to what the video is gonna do. And I'll explain a little bit more in a second.
Then give them something that potentially is gonna give them the outcome that they want. And whether they get the outcome or not, you're still gonna get engagement. Because if they don't get the outcome, they're gonna let you know. And if they do get the outcome and they're kind of surprised by it, well then they're also gonna let you know.
So in this scenario, what we did was. Fitness based. Uh, a big thing in fitness would be trying to touch your toes. So, you know, my call out was, can't touch your toes. That was it. Straightaway someone, it's a yes or a no, right?
Yeah.
Then it was, gimme a minute, I wanna show you something. So I very clearly labeled what we're gonna do.
It's gonna take about 60 seconds. Can I have 60 seconds of your time? I'm gonna give you something. And then it was like, okay, try to touch your toes. Now try this thing. Now go back to touch your toes. And so from that, people either got the response they wanted or they didn't. That particular video may I also add was blurry, didn't sound amazing.
Like I was one of those ones I wasn't gonna post that went to 14 and a half million views. Now what came off the back of that, because this is what I tell people, it's one thing to go viral. You've gotta have the library, like you've gotta have other things there.
Mm-hmm.
And it has to be relatable to what that person wants.
Like there's no point in you dancing to a TikTok trend and it goes viral, and then someone comes in and goes, oh, they're a gardener. Yeah, I don't want gardening equipment. So for me, it was like when they watched that, then they went into other videos and then they went, oh, this guy actually knows what he's talking about.
So then it became interesting, and we knew that that video was the thing that popped off because every time I went into the app, I had a hundred new followers, a hundred new followers. So it was nearly like this cycle of things was happening. So I knew that our trick had worked. So what did I do? I made five different variations and they all had millions of views.
And then what I did is I started to use that formula, but on different styles. So it didn't necessarily mean, can't touch your toes. It might say, have you got shitty shoulders? Yeah, I've got shitty shoulders. Okay, here's an exercise, blah, blah, blah. And then we noticed that that was really bumping up. We've tried it in other areas now as well.
Same thing, call out the problem, guide the individual, give them a solution, and then hopefully they get the response that they wanted. So it's, it's a really good way when it comes to short form content now. We talked about this earlier, like about ego metrics and all this. It's one thing to get 14 and a half million views, but what I've noticed is like that got attention that got people into my thing, but if I can't show you that I'm the specialist at what I'm doing, they're just gonna go, cool.
That was an entertaining video. I'm gone. What I wanted to show them was actually like, no, this was for me to get your attention now, and I said this earlier, is like, here's a client that has a situation that's probably similar to you. And we've been able to do X, Y, and Z with that person. So what happened?
You know, the videos that had like client testimonials or you know, proof in what you do, that's where I actually got more business. So it was, it was like the seesaw. So it was like, yeah, no, let's get uh, all the eyeballs on me. Let's do some crazy things. You know, why not? It's, it's cool and it's fun and people can see you're a human being and not just this robot giving information, but then they can actually see, you know, you can talk to talk and walk the walk, right?
Yeah.
And that was massive for me.
Yeah. And look, that's epic. And um, like, I love the idea of the hook. 'cause the whole purpose of the hook is to stop the right person from scrolling. So, um, and the algorithms. You know that that's really what trains the algorithm to work is that hook. So if you can get the hook right and it can be relevant to the person you're trying to talk to, then you'll be hooking that person.
Um, which kind of drives me nuts. 'cause whenever people are running events, say for example, and events on the Gold Coast and they don't write Gold Coast events, I'm like. It's a Gold Coast event, or it's a live online event, like you have to say it 'cause the algorithm, like that's how the algorithm works, right?
Um, but in there, from what you were talking about, the way that I'd break that up is like, okay, you've got the hook. Um, and it's a four point structure that I use. It's the hook. The second part is the connection. So show them that you know them. And then the third part is credibility. So why you, why this?
And showing your expertise. And then the last one is the call to action, um, and making sure that. You know, everyone thinks a call to action is your, um, is like a sell, and it's not a sell. It could just be the next step. It's like, if you want more or the next step from this is to now go and learn how to do this.
Sit. Keep them there. Don't send them away from you. You know? And a part of that obviously is, is building your email list, because you don't own them if they're on social media, right? Yeah. Hundred
percent. I, I, I talk about this. I say you are the shepherd and you've gotta guide the sheep. A lot of people think that they've got this mentality that it's like, oh, they, if they see my video, they're obviously gonna follow me.
But if you're not navigating them exactly where you want, so your CTA might just be, if you like what you see, drop us a follow, you know? Or, hey, if you wanna learn more, we actually give you a guide on this thing. Jump into my email list. And that's, I think, is the biggest mistake that people, they, that's not necessarily a sell.
Yeah,
because I, I always, it's a weird analogy, but I give the analogy. It's like if you worked in an office, right, and you met this guy and he was cute and he sent you flowers to the office, that would be really, really cute. You're like, oh, he's so special. If you met a guy in the, you know, same bar, didn't really like him, and he found out where you worked and he sent you flowers, you'd be really pissed off and you'd be like, he's a creep.
So it's like the idea is, is like you are not gonna piss people off. What you're gonna do is the person who's not interested is just not gonna be phased by that sentence.
Yeah.
The person who is interested go, oh yeah, I actually would love to learn more. Like, what do we do when before we're ready to buy?
I want to binge on everything that you do so I can see if you can actually solve the thing that I want you to solve. Yeah.
Yeah,
that it's so, if you are not out there, you could be the, like, I've met some of the best coaches, like I've learned from some of the best coaches and had to dive deep to find these people.
I'm like, mate, sing from the rooftop. Like you're amazed at what you do.
Yeah.
You know, I'm not better than other people. I'm just more consistent. That's what it is. Like, I don't even overthink things. I post it out there. 'cause you are, I got it from um, like America's Got Talent. Britain's Got Talent where Simon Kell says like, the best judge here is the audience behind us.
Yeah.
That's the best judge. So now he usually makes his decision based off on how they reacted. And that's what I say to people. Marketing, you don't know what you don't know. If I take on a new like client, I'm gonna give them options, but we have to put it out there to see.
Yeah.
Does it work? Does it not work?
Did that work? Okay, cool. Let's maybe try a different variations of that. Like people think we have the secret sauce.
Oh my gosh. I know. Like a magic formula. Like a quick fix magic formula and it's like, no, you still gotta trial and error it, right?
Yeah. We can give our stepping stones hundred. We can guide you.
But then you gotta know like, okay, that doesn't actually resonate with me, or that doesn't sound like me. Okay, cool. Like, um, what I always say to people is, short form is the best way to get small reps in consistently. Mm-hmm. And then doing something like this is good because I can be a human being. Now, if you're willing to give 30 minutes of listening to me.
Now you'll get to see who I am as a human being.
Yeah.
There's no tactics behind this. We're just having a quick chat. Mm-hmm. And then you can hear, hey, I am a human being. Like, but I do have strategies to try and get your attention because guess what, after three seconds, you're just gonna flick away.
That's how much attention you're gonna give me.
A hundred percent. No, that's so true. And, and when it comes down to like social media platforms and getting started in social media platforms, you know, for example with Instagram, the reason it isn't a quick fix is because they've done shit on there before.
They've been on that platform and they've been showing interest in things that probably aren't relevant to their business. Their bio probably sucks. They haven't set it up, probably haven't put their website in there. They've been posting and their content's been fluffy, so they haven't had key messages and no hooks.
And when all of that is happening, and now you get this. This platform and they go, oh, I must need ads. And I'm like, you don't need ads, you need a strategy.
So I don't wanna tell people how much I've burnt on ads. Like it would make me sick and ill to even think of the amount of money that I put into ads that have not worked, you know?
But what the ones that did work were, because I had put them out organic. And I knew the strategy, I knew what people were engaging with. And then I just, I always think about it as, it's like ads only work when there is something there. Like if you have a product or you have something there and it is working at a certain level, all the ads do is amplify that.
Yeah.
But if you don't have anything, like, so for example, right, we, we went from 5,000 followers, changed our tactics. We blew up to 350,000 followers over two weeks, right? Maybe it was timing. Like everybody says, look, I say look is when preparation meets timing, right? You, you had the things that were there, they were looking for it.
Boom. But what I noticed was then is like, and I thought I had good systems in place. We didn't have the systems in place to accommodate for, I'm talking thousands of messages every single day because you are literally the front of the paper and there's amount of people are coming on board. So what I try to teach people is I committed.
To 90 days. That's what I committed to in a style that I was going to do. Because it's like training, right? Yeah. If you are fat Debbie and you come into a gym and you want to lose 20 kilos, you appreciate you're not gonna lose it on that one session.
Mm-hmm.
Right? And also the, a good trainer is gonna try and understand what is feasible for you.
Maybe you're someone who wants to train every day. The reality probably is, no, we're gonna do less of what you think you can do, because then what's gonna happen in two weeks time, you're gonna go, Hey, I think I could do more.
Mm.
And the biggest problem that people make is they try and go too hard too soon.
Mm-hmm. And then they fall off. So I can't post every day on social media. Well, guess what? If you're someone who doesn't post on social media every day, don't post on social media every day. But what I would say is it's like look at it and go, okay, what is manageable? I do think that if you call a spade a spade, and if I give you an understanding of what, 5,000 followers to half a million followers got me financially, opportunities.
Mm-hmm. All that. I think you would put 90 days into practice and actually try and find time to do a post every day. But if you couldn't, I definitely think you wanna be doing something like three times a week. The idea then is it's nearly every second day. Right?
Yeah.
That's at your minimum. Yeah. Because the problem with a lot of people is they don't see.
The opportunities that can actually come from this when it does blow off. Because when is the statement here? It's not, if you know you, you are good at what you do. Why? Because you do it consistently and you do it daily. Why am I good at what I do? Because same thing, I just repetitively do it. It's not motivation, it's discipline.
Mm-hmm.
It's in the calendar and guess what? I'm doing it, you know, if that like, and for me, I have a videographer who comes over, so I have no choice. Yeah. No word of a lie. I have two kids under six, and on a Wednesday morning when he's due to come over, they are feral. They don't wanna leave the house.
They put me in the worst humor and then I've gotta be like, okay, I'm ready to make videos.
We were just talking about it earlier and I was saying how I was, I was recording a video for, uh, like a reel, a one minute reel for a promotion for a speaking event that I'm at. And every single time I took this, take my my Jack Russell.
Puppy who's got a deregulated nervous system kept jumping up on my lap because I've been away, you know, camping for the last week and I was like, I'm just gonna run with this because it's like, just get it up and I have a cap that actually, I had it printed and it says, just get it up. I like it. I like it up.
But I think like, again, you don't know what you don't know. And especially for someone who hasn't posted regularly.
Yeah.
But if you can try and get things out there, then guess what? You, you know, you, even if you did it for two weeks, right? And you were doing it three times a week, now you've got six things that you could look at and say, what got the best views?
Yeah. Okay. So now for the next two weeks, maybe I'll try variations of that because you think you're gonna be repetitive, but you're not, you're the specialist of what you're doing.
Mm-hmm.
So, like for example, I know a guy who has built a multimillion dollar business teaching people that it's okay to train their knees over their toes.
That's what he does. He doesn't deviate from that.
I love that. I do believe in knees over toes,
a hundred percent. Why? Why do you believe it? Because if you look at every movement that you do, you walk down the stairs, guess what? Your knees travel over your toes, so you might as well be prepared for it. So when it comes to.
Like posting on social media. I get it. Like it's new. It's the same thing, like I've worked with clients like in a previous life that were heavily overweight and the idea of walking into a gym and seeing all the skinny bitches like mm-hmm. I don't wanna go in there. Yeah. Okay, cool. Don't go in there.
Train from home first. So likewise, like, don't go and book out a studio if you're a little bit nervous about something. Put it like, put it out there.
Mm.
Talk like, turn the camera on. Just talk like we're talking right now. Ring a friend, get them on FaceTime behind the camera. Yeah, tell them your interest, like then go into what you do and then you put that out there.
Because ironically, now this, this is the way social media works, right? If you are doing what everybody else is doing, you fall into the, the sea or the ocean of all of that, right? So now what's actually happened is everybody's been like blinded by these like amazing edits and all this kind of stuff. When actually, now what's happening in 2026 is everybody's loving raw.
I just like you being honest. A
hundred percent connection
a hundred. Yeah. Because now we've got ai, so now we don't even know if the video's real. Yeah. So like if you are somebody who's starting in a business, like if you can do monthly webinars or you can do podcasts, or you can do even just live in-person events, your business is gonna excel because then people get to see you as a human being.
We're gonna crave that like hundred percent. I've spoke with this. You, you like to go on retreats like these off the grid retreats. Our massive thing, and they're only gonna get bigger in the next few years because people are fed up just doom scrolling, sitting on their phone. But when you have a purpose to be away from it, guess what?
You're more happy to just kind of, alright, I'll just took that away and actually connect, but I'm not gonna do that on the short form content. So your short form content should be the purpose of like getting, getting attention. Hey, look at me, I'm the expert at what I do. But then there has to be, like you said this earlier with, with businesses who went crazy on like, as in, went crazy viral, but then didn't have anywhere to navigate the person.
Mm. And then they just fall by the wayside. Or what you said is like, if you're a location based business, like try and make sure your content is relevant to that area because Yeah. Yeah. Like you don't want somebody from a different country, like, especially if it is a, a service that you can't give them.
Right.
Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. So I think this is where it comes down to the strategy and working out like what are the non-negotiables in the strategy. A lot of it comes down to where people will say, um, I don't have the time for this. Or they go, I don't really have the money to invest in marketing or marketing's too hard and I'm not good at marketing.
And in this case I always go. You don't deserve new clients, just go. You don't deserve new clients if you've got no time for marketing. And if you've got no time to invest in yourself and if you don't understand your business and can't talk about your business online or share it with the world, and if you're not passionate about doing it, maybe you shouldn't get more clients, like maybe you don't deserve more new clients.
But if you do, then. Upskill Upskill. Get, get yourself a strategy. Get yourself support. Get yourself the, you know, the skills and get yourself the systems. I always talk about the s's
What I, what I talk about is your why. If your why is enough, you'll do it.
Yeah.
So in my scenario, I was a personal trainer and I had a business in person.
COVID came, I lost 90% of my income. And rather than be a little, you know, moan about it and, and complain about it. I used to go into my friend's gym at 1:30 AM I used to put my three month old to bed, go into the gym, and I used to film in there. And I used to film for about four hours and I wasn't making any income off that, but I knew that I wanted to go online and I knew the only way people are gonna get my attention is by showing them the skills that I have.
Uh, bear in mind, I also had a burst appendix for four months. There's a few videos where I actually had a burst appendix in those videos. Wow. So for me, I'm like, look, I get it. I know like the best advice I got was. When you're too comfortable, it's very hard to make a change. So for me, I was like, well, okay, I am comfortable right now 'cause I've lost 90% of my earnings.
So I'm gonna pivot and I'm gonna deviate and I'm gonna make sure that what I do now, if it doesn't work, at least I can say I tried. And what came off the back of that was. We had six star hotels fly us to the Maldives for six weeks. That was pretty nice. They then flew us to Europe. We spent seven and a half months traveling the world with my kids.
That wouldn't have happened if I didn't spend four and a half years posting every day. The beauty about now is you can do it quicker. I, I did it because they didn't have the same kind of like, fixation on as they, as they do now. It's very, I would say it's very simple to get attention now. Not easy. Yeah.
Very simple. And the simp, the simplicity of it is, is you post consistently and then the market will tell you what people are actually interested in.
Yeah,
so people would tell me, I've been posting every day for like two years and it hasn't gone anywhere. I was like, but have you looked at the metrics of it and not, not the views?
Mm.
The video that we had that had 14 and a half million views had something like 250,000 shares, and that was the important part. That meant that you watched it and then you sent it to somebody else. Yeah, and they're the things that you actually wanna look at. Like did somebody jump into your dms off the back of that video?
Did they actually comment on the video and did they share it to somebody? Doesn't matter how many people watched it because the watches only said that they send it to more people. But if you got a thousand views and you. You know, a hundred shares that says that that content is really, really good. Right.
And likewise, if you had five or six people reach out to you and you get one as a client, well then that post was worth Its while. Right? So even before you go near, like I, I get so frustrated when I see marketing companies that are so fixated. I'm like, let's do ads. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, but do you even know.
That business, have they put anything out there? Do they know what the market's even engaging with? Because if they don't, I can guarantee you're gonna put 10 20 K behind ads before you even get that metrics.
Yeah. And most of them don't even have lead captures in place. There's no lead captures, there's no retargeting.
And I'm like the number one rule of like ads. Well, a couple rules. One is if it's not working organically, it's not gonna work paid, which you, which you spoke about earlier. And the other thing is, is that if you cannot capture the lead off of social media and retarget them with nurture sequences and you're not monitoring your CRM, if that's not even happening and if your ads team are not even talking to you about that, like that is a big warning sign, I get the F away from that because that's gonna be like a sinking hole.
Yeah. I would question then the, like the level of that marketing agency. If they're not being real and honest and being vulnerable as well, because if they're not saying to you, Hey, look. We ran this campaign, it's actually not working. We've checked the metrics, we've looked at the KPIs, so we need to pivot very fast.
That to me, is a good marketing agency.
Yeah.
You know, because again, like we've, we usually blast out, you know, five or six videos. Some of them might even be the same, but the hook is different. We look and we say, okay, that's, that's the one, or that's the one. Okay. More females are watching this one more males are watching this one.
You know, like, it's like, all right, well now let's put a bit more money behind these ones. And yeah, like you said, if you're not looking at the KPIs, then you are just. Literally pissing money. Like Yeah. And it's not a nice feeling. Let me tell you, when you're, when you see 10 20 K going, you're like, hmm, I don't see the ROI on that.
Yeah. There was a travel agency here on the Gold Coast, um, and they contacted me and they said, Tel, please, you've gotta help us out. Like, this agency are just taking so much money from us. And, um, they're saying that our followers are going up, but we are not feeling like any income, any extra clients, any, anything.
So I said, just look at your metrics. And they're like, I don't know how to, and I went, okay, cool. Take me for a coffee. I'll sit down, I'll show you. So I went into the back and had a look and I was like, okay, all your growth that you've had, all those thousands of new followers are all from India. So your company right now is just, they going and they're getting offshore people to go and follow your account.
Like that's their strategy. Uh, none of it is actually like your client base, like.
The problem with that is Instagram don't like that as well. Of course. So of course that actually then like ruins your engagement. You're actually nearly better off starting a brand new page after that because you get like a little blacklist to it because like, as much as they want you on the platform, more often, they don't want like this fabrication of, of followers and stuff.
Right. And I, what I usually see in, in my experience is like that's a very naive marketing agency who are trying to, you know. Uh, fabricate the, the actual data so that it looks good.
Mm-hmm.
But you know, if you are watching this and you are thinking of working with an agency, like they should be raw and honest to you, and they should actually have very clear outlines as to what the stage is for the next, you know, month, you know, 90 days, six months, depending on what you are like actually looking for.
Right? Like, because I think in, in my opinion, like if they're not already looking at what you have. They're not, especially if they're not looking at building a strategy, even before you put any money behind ads, they're not, that would be a red flag for me. Yeah, and the strategy doesn't necessarily have to be short form content or, or social media.
I just mean like if you don't have a CRM or if you don't have anything in the background to capture anything like that, building that infrastructure, like, I'll give you an example, right? We came across a funnel back in 2023. And it was, you know, a lot of people are using it now. I don't even know what the name of it behind it is now, but it was very simple.
We put out content, gave a lot of free advice, gave people an option to come in, get that free advice, right. But off the back of that, then we just diverted to a page that would just say, Hey, you probably wanted more than that. Free thing. You wanna book a call? Book a call. We made 150 K off that one funnel.
Yeah,
right. That, because it was very simple. Because what it did was. I'm the expert. Here's the thing to prove it actually, do you wanna just not worry about reading this and just actually talk to me like a human being? Yeah. And then I can show you and then people go, that made sense? Yeah. I wanna work with you.
And even to the, to, to this day, that still works not in the same way because a lot, a lot of people are like, comment the thing below. So everybody's more familiar with it. And so there is a few more tactics. You do have to show a bit more authority in what you're doing. But I, I still feel like if, if you are not doing something organically yet.
Then you are a crazy person to put money behind it.
Mm-hmm. Look, I think knowledge is power. I think a lot of business owners, because they don't understand it, they put the head in the, in the, you know, in the ground and they don't really wanna understand it. And I always say to them, especially when I work with them, I always work with them before I work with their marketing team.
And I get them involved because I want them to have an understanding of what the overall thing is that we're doing so they can manage this machine and continue to operate it. Um, and a lot of the time it's just they don't want to, they wanna put their heads in the sand, bury their heads in the sand, and then it just opens them up to getting completely screwed by everyone because they've got no idea.
They're like, oh no, that's too hard. That's too hard. It's not that hard. Once it's all set up and you've got like somebody managing it, it's really easy. Like, you know, you just need to have a. Just a business owner overview of what's going on here, you know, and then it's just rinse and repeat once it's working.
It does take time to get there, but, um, yeah, I think knowledge is power and I think business owners who, um, that's why I like to say I work with purpose led business owners who wanna, who care about their online voice and care about their audience and wanna be involved with their team. Um, we tend to work really well with those people.
Um, but yeah, so skills strategy, system support, I think, um, you know, is really good. And it's the same in the fitness industry. You know, um, I was always known in the fitness industry, 'cause I come from a fitness background as well, that, you know, you've gotta improve people's skills. You can't just tell them to do something.
You've gotta give them the why, the why you need to be doing that. You know, if you can't do it on your own, guess what? Get support.
Yeah. I, I always try and find. So I was actually, um, listening to the Tony Robinson, uh, show this morning. The Time to Rise. Yeah. So day one was this morning and just, uh, it just falls in line with your S's, but, um, like, you know, you wanna understand the person's story first, right?
Because then I can relate. I am someone who played high levels of sports all my life. It is not hard for me to get up at half four in the morning and go and train because I have a purpose for it. Right? But I also appreciate that if I have somebody who's in a similar situation to me, maybe has two young kids, you know, multiple businesses, but doesn't have the get up and go, then we have to understand first your story.
Like why are you sitting there talking to me? Then we have to understand like, um, what's the state like, like, you know, do, can you actually commit to this? Can? And then more importantly, what I always wanna understand is like, what, what is your flare? Like, what is your getup? And go, like, it's, it's one thing for me to say, Hey, I want teach the handstand.
You're like, I have no interest in learn accent. Yeah. A hundred
percent.
Or it might be like, Hey, what do you like? I like salsa dancing. Cool. That's where we're gonna start.
Yeah.
Because the, the best thing about a habit is, is, is being frequent with it, right? So to create a habit, you've gotta find the things that you love.
Like, is that what you need, per se? Like from a data perspective and scientifically looking at you physically? Maybe not, but guess what? If I try to get you to do things that you don't wanna do. The only time you're gonna do that is let's say you're in pain and you know it's the solution to get outta pain, well then you'll probably gimme a bit more of a buy-in.
But if it's like, just because I've told you to do it gets to a certain point where you're like, that's not for me.
Yeah.
You gotta find what someone likes. Right.
I used to see that with personal trainers in the gym all the time having, you know, own centers in South Africa and then in Australia. And it was always like the personal trainers on day one, it's like their intro session, yay, you gotta do a hundred burpees in like five minutes.
And I'm like, and they go. Oh, I don't understand why the person hasn't come back, and I'm like. So I had this thing at the gym and it was like, I always said to my trainers, always make sure that you leave your clients with a happy ending. True story. That's what
I was known for. You're hat in that statement.
I really, yeah. Painting a picture here.
So I was talking about how I was in the fitness industry and went into marketing and you were in the fitness industry and, and went into marketing and I said, you know, like, what do you think it is? And you came up with some really good stuff. So tell us.
I, I think like what people are afraid of is repetition.
What people are afraid of is doing the same thing repetitively and getting, you know, better at it and. I related to sports and fitness. I was a free taker as a, as a kid, you know, and when I played sports, I would put the ball down, same place, try and kick it the same way repetitively get better at it. If that didn't work, I'd try a new tactic.
And so what I've noticed then was when I took up handstands as an example, I, I jokingly said this to you off air. I've been failing at handstands for eight years. You know, I go up. Maybe I can hold for a certain amount of time, then I'm gonna come down. But the thing is, is like where I'm at now is far superior to where I was eight years ago.
Yeah. But ultimately I'm still falling down at some point. You know what I mean? Like, so we went from like, oh, if I could just have five second handstand, I'd be so happy my life would be made. Then I got to five seconds like, oh, I wanna make it prettier.
Yeah.
Then I got 10 seconds, then I got up to one arm handstand and it got to this point where you're like, you know, I'm never happy, but if I appreciate, I think we're, we're in a similar mentorship and the best advice I ever got is like, look at the last 90 days.
Yeah,
we're so fixated and looking at the next 90 days, like if I could just get that, I'd be like, life would be complete. Or if I could just get that, then life will be easier. Yeah. But then it's actually going, well, look at where you are now. Like if I look back during COVID, when I lost 90% of my business, myself and my fiance, we sat down and we were like, okay, what's the five year goal?
And we set it down. And guess what? We've ticked a lot of those boxes. It's still not fluent in German. And I still don't have a, a flat pancake on the floor for anyone who's done gymnastics, but, you know, we, we hit 80%. I'll take that. So I think it, it is relatable, right? So like, if I'm in the fitness industry, I understand that you go and you do this thing.
Yeah.
And if you look in the mirror at the end of that thing, you mightn't have reached what you thought was gonna happen. But you know, then I'll go again next week and I'll go again next week. Yeah. And if someone hasn't seen you in those six weeks, they might see the difference, but you don't really see the changes.
But in a, in a marketing instance, when you do the same thing, the difference is. Uh, I related, where I related to fitness is if I'm doing the same exercise and I'm not getting the response I want, then I pivot and I change the exercise. Yeah. Or I change the variation of that exercise. So if I'm putting a piece of content out and it's not getting what I want, maybe I'll change the variation and then when I do find the one that I want, then I know I've got different variations of the same thing that I hopefully gonna gimme the same outcome.
Especially as a coach, right? If I have five people in front of me, guess what? They've got different hip structures, right? So if I'm gonna give a hip exercise, I have to be prepared that I have different variations for those different people. People. Hundred percent. So when that comes to marketing, if you think you're somebody who can create a template and just give it to every single business,
ugh,
isn't not gonna work, right?
Drives me nuts. How many marketing coaches are out there and selling templates or AI prompts? And I'm like. Don't even get me started. It's insane. Yeah. So I think one of the things we do have as athletes is I think discipline. We are used to creating habit, forming, um, you know, routine. Once you create a routine.
Um, I'm always so grateful that, 'cause I did triathlons, I went to Worlds for triathlon. Then I had twins and it was like, I'm so grateful I did triathlons. 'cause twins must be easier than triathlons. 'cause triathlons is three things, but twins is two things. It must be easier. But I loved the discipline of it, of like the record keeping of who went to the toilet and who changed the nappy and who was sick and who, 'cause I had two kids and I obviously was tied as well.
And um, I think it came down to, you know, that record keeping, that discipline, the routines, um, and keeping your motivation up and. You, I bet you've got a thousand coaches. I know. I've got a thousand coach. I've got a coach for everything. Like we invest in ourselves, right? We've got coaches for everything.
Yeah. So I think, I think that's the difference. And guess what? It becomes easier and becomes more enjoyable. Both of us are sitting here absolutely loving what we do. So yeah,
I look at it like you saying Bolt had a running coach. Does that mean the coach was better than them? No. The coach understand the biomechanics, understand it like that.
Maybe things that he could change to just give an extra what? Point zero zero zero. One of a faster time. You know, like, like triathlons, they have coaches for the different aspects of their triathlon. It doesn't mean that the coaches better than them. It's, it's, they see things that maybe they don't. Yeah.
So even in my instance, I have a LinkedIn coach.
Yeah,
because I've decided I wanna put a bit more attention into LinkedIn just to change things up a little bit. Yeah. Guess what? I went and got a LinkedIn coach. Why? Because I don't, I'm fed up spending hours upon hours, like looking at things when I'm like, you have the solution to my problem.
Give it to me.
Give it to me. Yeah. Love it. So we end on that note. Thank you so much. It's been amazing. Um, and so how can people connect with you?
Uh, Daniel sullivan.com is probably the easiest. Um, if you are somebody who's struggling with social media or. You don't know whether it's working or you just want a little bit of advice, uh, we'll pop a, a link here just below this video.
You can book in a little strategy session. It'll be myself personally, I'd love to pick your brains and go through your social media and actually give you some strategies that you can put in place for, you know, next kind of 90 days. Um, if you follow them, guarantee things will pop up.
Love that. Um, thank you so much again.
Uh, this is another episode of the Meaningful Marketing Podcast. If you haven't already, please make sure that you subscribe, rate us, share or comment below. Please feel free to send me a private message and let me know if there's anything that you'd like me to create content on for you. See ya. Thanks for listening in.
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