Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Art of Spousing is for marriages that what to move from being mundane to becoming masterpiece relationships. Hosts James and Lisa Duvall share truths and lessons learned from their 30 years of marriage and over a decade of teaching, coaching, and speaking on marriage.
There's a lot of good science out there
from the Gottman Institute, where if you
want to have a satisfying marriage, for
every negative interaction, you need five
positive ones. Well, as couples, we have a
lot of neutral interactions where we're
just kind of doing business. Right. And
then there's some tension, and then you
get some good sprinkled in there. But that
five to one, that golden ratio that we
talk about, that's not an easy thing to
achieve in a busy, full life. And so the
question is, how do you maintain that
intentionality? And even if you are
desiring to be intentional, what exactly
do you do and how do you remember to do
it? So this is where one of the benefits
of Act Agape is we really get into the
application side. We don't just stop with
understanding conceptually how our spouse
experiences love, but we drop down into
the specifics. Hello and welcome to
another episode of the Artist Spousing
podcast, and Happy Thanksgiving Week.
Absolutely. And let us kick it off by
letting you know how thankful we are for
every listener who's a part of the art
espousing community. We are so grateful
for you and your support. Yeah, we hope
you've had a great couple weeks since our
last episode. We've been going fast and
furious for the last few weeks, and so now
we're really looking forward to this week
with our family. That's right. Our
daughter Addie is home from college, and
our oldest daughter Alex is coming in from
New York. So we'll have all the kids home
for Thanksgiving. It's going to be a great
week. Even though we're empty nesters, we
still love our kids. That's right. Good to
have the hope, Lisa. You know what else is
going on this week? What? It's a great
week because it's the game. Turkey. No,
not the turkey game. The Ohio State
Buckeyes will be on the team up north,
which is also known as Michigan. Oh, my
goodness. I just heard that they were
renamed. They're no longer the Wolverines.
Oh, you're going to go there? Yeah.
They're the Cheetahs. The Cheetahs. No, we
don't say things bad about people. I'm
glad that this is such a big, like,
Thanksgiving and the Michigan game. Those
really do go hand in hand. Being from
Ohio, it's like the big rivalry. Exactly.
Well, today we're going to introduce you
to a really cool app for your marriage
called Act Agapier. And we have the co
founder, Dr. Scott Simonton, on the
podcast with us. And you're going to want
to hear about this tool. But before we
jump in, we want to talk to you about the
marriage reboot. With 2023 wrapping up and
a brand new Year right around the corner,
now is a great time to plan on an
investment into your marriage in 2024. And
a great investment would be scheduling a
two day marriage reboot with Lisa and I.
The Marriage Reboot is an exclusive, one
on one experience that will empower you to
uncover your marriage purpose and actually
start living into it. The process is
designed to bring clarity to every aspect
of your marriage. Together, we will craft
plans for multiple domains of your life,
creating a solid framework that will help
you manage and renew your relationship in
the future. During this private
experience, you and your spouse will have
our undivided attention. As your dedicated
marriage coaches, we're going to guide you
and help you identify where you've been,
define where you are now, and discover
where you want to go together in the
future. The marriage reboot is designed
for marriages in all stages, and we know
that it will make a huge difference in
your marriage. You can find out
more@artispousing.com marriagecoaching.
You can also message us on Instagram and
we'll send you a link to schedule a 30
Minutes call with James and I to hear more
about that experience. So now let's jump
into our conversation about Act Agape.
Scott, it is so great to have you on the
podcast. Thank you so much for taking some
time just to be on the show with us and
talk to us about Actagape. Yeah, thanks
for having me. I appreciate it. So we've
been so excited to introduce you and act
Agape to our audience to get started. Can
you tell us a little bit about yourself
and how the Act Agape project started?
Yeah. So my wife and I and our two
children, we live in Pasadena, California,
and I've had a private practice here for
the last 17 years, and a lot of my work is
focused on marital therapy. And along the
way, I've always been interested in trying
to help couples outside the therapy room,
because they parachute in maybe for 50
minutes a week, and then they leave where
they live the vast majority of their life
and just wanting to equip them with
different tools or strategies to have
connection and warmth and positive
behaviors outside the therapeutic space.
About seven years ago, I developed this
just simple, effective way of helping
couples increase loving behavior in the
midst of their busy lives. Because that's
a challenge, right? We're overwhelmed,
we're distracted. We have a lot going on,
and maintaining that intentionality can be
challenging or knowing exactly how to
integrate effective, loving behaviors in
the midst of the busyness. So I developed
this method, and it started off as paper
and pencil, and just massaging it along
the way, and then sharing with colleagues
and other therapists started using it. So
then fast forward a couple of years ago, a
group of us got together, therapists and
some professors of marriage and family
therapy and some church leaders, with this
idea of making what is now known as the
Agape method more readily accessible,
available to couples, and to create an
app. So there's a lot more to it. But
again, I don't want to hear myself
talking. That's amazing. When we were
first introduced to the app, we had a
young couple who was kind of beta testing
it for us, and they were just so excited
about the discoveries. And we've been
testing with a group of us, and Lisa and I
have been using it. We've learned some
things. We've learned some things. So it
really is a helpful tool. But before we
get into the methodology and a little bit
about the app, when you were putting this
together and you're working with this
group, what was it that made you feel like
there needed to be a tool in the
marketplace for marriages? Most people are
familiar with the five love languages and
Gary Chapman. And really, it's a gift,
what he created and started. Here we are
decades later, and it's now in the
vernacular. Right? What's your love
language? Right. And the pain point that
that, and also act agape is touching is
this unspoken question that often happens
in marriage, especially more mature
marriages, when you're down the road a few
years, which is, why don't I feel more
loved? I know my spouse loves me and cares
about me, but why don't I feel it more?
And we're not necessarily announcing that
to people, because we also know our spouse
is loving, and we're aware of that. But
there is a part of it. But why don't I
feel more care and support and love? So
there is a real pain point in there. And
part of it is, in order to have a warm,
connected, healthy relationship, it
requires ongoing intentionality. We cannot
put our marriages on cruise control. In
addition, there's a lot know, good science
out there from Gottman and the Gottman
Institute, where if you want to have a
satisfying marriage, for every negative
interaction, you need five positive ones.
Well, as couples, we have a lot of neutral
interactions where we're just kind of
doing business. Right. And then there's
some tension, and then you get some good
sprinkled in there. But that five to one,
that golden ratio that we talk about,
that's not an easy thing to achieve in a
busy, full life. And so the question is,
how do you maintain that intentionality?
And even if you are desiring to be
intentional, what exactly do you do and
how do you remember to do it? So this is
where one of the benefits of Act Agape the
app, is we really get into the application
side. We don't just stop with
understanding conceptually how our spouse
experiences love, but we drop down into
the specifics along the lines of, like, a
generous and helpful act would be, I feel
loved when you finish doing the dishes and
ask me to decompress on the couch or when
you inquire about unknown stressor in my
life, where we make it action oriented,
because people often have difficulty
translating the larger label, let's say,
wow, acts of service or another. Love
language is important into an action that
we're confident will land, that speak to
our partner's heart. Right. So taking it
one step further, and then we also need to
be reminded of it in the midst of our busy
lives. And I'm sure we'll get into it,
kind of our innovative messaging system
goes. So to answer your question more
succinctly, in this moment, our marriages
really need intentionality. So good. And
it needs to be smart. Intentionality,
effective intentionality. And so that's
what we created as a tool for that. We've
been married 30 years, and we started
using this app. I know James Love
language. He knows mine just to speak to
what you're talking about. We've been
operating in that his love language is
words of affirmation. Mine's acts of
service. But interesting enough, in
Actagopi, the app, I've been noticing some
things that he appreciates, which you
actually highlighted, is that I would do
the dishes and he can decompress. So James
does most of the cooking in our house now,
because I've been cooking for 20 years for
kids, he's kind of taken over that role.
Thank you so much. So for me to do the
dishes and him decompress, I actually
didn't know that. And that really is more,
to me, it's an act of service, which I
wouldn't have thought is something that he
would appreciate. And so when that popped
up, the app reminded me in the morning, I
was like, okay, so I was excited for
dinner to come so that I could actually
go, oh, you decompress. You go sitting
there. Mr. And decompress. I got the
dishes, but the funny. Thing about that is
we were just having this conversation
because she asked me, she said, did you
type that in? I'm like, I don't think so.
But I think that's the power of the tool,
is that sometimes we have a hard time
expressing those intentional things that
would actually express love to us. So to
actually have some tools that you can kind
of go. I was able to identify that if she
asked me that, I probably wouldn't have
come up with that. No. Right. That's why I
was like, did you type that in? I couldn't
see options where you could type in what
you wanted to type in. No, I typed in all
the stuff about sex. That's what I typed
in. Yeah. First of all, it's fun
discovering those nuances, right? Same
thing with my wife and I. We discover kind
of new things about each other, even
though we know each other well. But you're
right, too. When you build your agape
list, and I think I'm jumping ahead here a
little bit, but when you build this agape
list, right. Which is how I feel love,
valued and respected in the relationship,
there is this kind of master list that you
can choose from. Right. So I have close to
25,000 clinical hours, and I've heard
everything under the sun. I've heard all
the affirmations, the top affirmations, or
ways that couples want to be prioritized.
So we do have these built in master lists
because it is easier to recognize
something than self generate it. Yes.
Right. So we can be like, oh, maybe, or,
oh, yeah, that. But I wouldn't necessarily
have generated that on my own. And then it
speaks to me. But, yeah, within the app,
too, you can create unique love items as
well. You don't have to settle for that
master list. But I have found that it's
kind of nice to just be able to spot it,
tap it, and it throws it on the list.
Well, you didn't jump ahead at all. So
you're right into what we were going to
ask next is just unpack some of the nuts
and bolts of the app and tell us how agape
app works. The heart and soul of it is
this Agape method. And Agape, as you all
know, is that Greek word for the highest
form of love, which is kind of a
sacrificial, like putting the other's
interests above our own, which is key for
a healthy marriage. We also have
transformed that word Agape into an
acronym that represents the five primary
ways that we express and receive love. So
sort of our version of the five Love
languages. So that first A of Agape is
affirmations. Sounds like that's top of
your list, James. I think everybody
appreciates affirmation, but some more
than others. Then G of Agape, generous and
helpful acts. The second A of agape,
affection, physical intimacy. P is
prioritizing relationship, and then E is
empathy. So those are the five broad
categories. And you'll notice we include
empathy in the five pillars, which is, in
our mind, just foundational to a healthy
marriage, like being very explicit and
having a real understanding, a concrete
understanding in how our spouse receives
empathy and getting specific about that.
So you have these five categories, but we
drop down and operationalize it. So, under
empathy, like the example I gave before,
my wife feels loved when I inquire about
an unknown stressor in her life, right? So
when that reminder comes in, then I can
follow up on something that is weighing on
her. So that's the basic model. So then
with the app, it introduces you to the
Agape method, and then it helps you build
your Agape list. I look through the
affirmations, I tap on those that
resonate, and then it takes me to generous
and helpful acts all the way through
empathy. And boom. I have identified this
very concrete list of this is how I feel
loved in the relationship. Then I invite
my partner to do the same, and then it
kind of swaps list, or it gives me access
then to Melissa's list, which is really a
pathway to her heart. It's giving me a
specific pathway to the things that really
resonate with her heart. So after we pair
on the app and we have each other's Agape
list, then the app prompts me to set love
goals, and love goals is essentially okay.
Scott, how many times a week do you want
to intentionally love Melissa? Like, okay,
well, let's start with five intentional
acts a week. And if I select five, then
five out of the seven days, it will grab
an item from Melissa's Agape list and then
creatively populate my phone with it.
Could be a text. It could be an email,
could be a push notification. We even have
voice technology she's not aware of. When
I receive that love notification, and that
is an important piece of the app, I'm
focused on expressing my best loving self
and trusting her to do the same. So that
reminder, it comes in, and then I can
either act on that specific reminder, or I
consult her broader agape list and see if
there's a different loving action that I
could do. Essentially, what we're trying
to do is just tip couples towards love in
the midst of their busy lives. Right. And
create a virtuous cycle of loving
behavior. It's really cool. I know that
when I get my alert, it actually comes on
my eye watch. And Lisa's picture always
shows up on my not. It's like a goofy
picture you put in there. Something I did
put a goofy. She put a goofy picture. So
anytime that picture shows up on my watch,
I know that I'm getting something from her
agape list. So it's really know, just pops
up randomly throughout the day and reminds
me of, like, here's something you can do
today to express love. I'm sure you
appreciate the swap out thing to look at
the broader, because I know that one of
mine is to complete a honeydew task. So on
that list, I don't know exactly how it
says it, but that is like, of course, my
love language acts of service, but, like,
finishing and completing that. But that
day that. That reminds you to do that, you
may not have time to do that. So that's
nice. He has a swap option, but just don't
swap that suggestion too many times. You
have. I'm just saying, just don't let it.
Right. The easier one is when she says
she's shown love by when I hug her.
Because I can hug her all the time. That's
right. There's another piece of the
software, the love DNA. Can you talk a
little bit about that? Yeah. The love DNA
scan, that is an assessment that you take,
and it will help you sort of understand
your love wiring and your partner's love
wiring. So our take is a little bit
different on this, and that's why we went
from a love DNA test to a scan. When
you're developing an assessment tool, one
of the things that you're looking for is
repeatability. Right. So if I give you an
assessment today, it should look pretty
similar two weeks from today or a year
from now, right. That's how you kind of
examine its reliability. So as we were
constructing the love DNA test, which it
was before, where you could discover,
okay, what's most important to me.
Affirmations or empathy or being
prioritized, whatever. Over time, we
noticed that it wasn't necessarily
repeating in the way that we would have
expected. And it's like, oh, wow, we've
got a bad assessment here. Right. We got
to keep working. But then over time, what
we realized is. Wait a. No, no. What we're
seeing is individuals tend to gravitate
towards certain love languages, but then
there is some fluidity depending on what's
going on in their lives. When I was
launching Act Agape and had a full private
practice, what shifted on Melissa's list
was prioritizing the relationship. She
wanted more time, understandably, because
I was so preoccupied with trying to do so.
There are seasons where we need more
empathy or more affirmation. So that's why
then we shift it to scan. So you scan your
relationship every month or so, and then
it tells a story, especially if there's a
shift. You're basically saying, oh, my
spouse is needing a little bit more kind
of empathy or affirmations because of
what's going on over here, maybe at work
or something. So it was even more of a
helpful tool than we realized. It was not
only highlighting how you're wired, but
what your partner is most needing now,
seasonally. Yeah, that's awesome. I can
imagine even before it became an app,
seeing that you had this as a tool within
therapy with married couples, that the
compound effect of these small acts of
love expressed in an action or a word
really make a difference. But have you
seen, I mean, do you have any stories of
just couples? Again, it could be not from
the app, but in therapy of using this kind
of. I mean, I have lots of stories, even
personal ones. I'll give you a couple of
examples. So last week, I had a love
notification coming in that Melissa feels
loved when I hold her and tell her that
everything's going to be okay. Now, what's
interesting about that is that would not
be anything that I would want from her.
I'd be like, I know, it's okay. I would,
like, squirm. But she's not me. Right?
She's not me. So the more kind of distant
we are or whatever that love item is, the
harder it is for us to remember, right?
Because it's not us, right? But again,
it's not about me. It's about how she
experienced love. So that came in. I
usually get my love notifications in the
morning. It came in. I'm like, okay, all
right, I'm going to find an opportunity to
do this. It's not me as it is. So later
that evening, we're cooking dinner or
whatever, and I walk up to her. I'm like,
okay, here's the opportunity. And I'm
like, come here, honey. And I hold her and
I just say, honey, everything's going to
be okay. And we had a moment, and it drew
that out of me. Something that I was a
little uncomfortable doing. But actually,
it felt good in the moment, right? Or a
few weeks ago, something came in around
her feeling love. When I expressed
curiosity around one of her interests, the
timing was not ideal. When she was
bringing something up, I was kind of
running out the door, and I was focused on
the next thing, and she was raising a
topic, and I'm like, okay, Scott, here it
is. Here it is. Apply it. It's like, take
a deep breath, enter kind of that more
curious state, and know. Listen. So
there's a couple interesting things about
it. It created a moment for us that we
wouldn't have. Right. Had I not had the
specific knowledge of how she feels of it,
and had I not been reminded of it, I still
have to do it, and. And I want to be that
man for her. The app didn't do it for me.
It helped me be who I want to be. Right.
And then over time, it actually drops down
and changes my heart even more profoundly
as I internalize these very nuanced ways
that she experiences. Then, you know, not
too long ago, there's a difference between
your spouse tolerating, let's say, you
going out with your friends or doing
something away from the family and giving
it their blessing. So Melissa's saying,
hey, Scott, I know you enjoy spending time
with your friends. I hope you have a great
time. It's like, oh, my gosh. So in of
itself, you're like, wow, okay. That's,
know they had a moment. But, Lisa, to your
point, it's like, if we're tipping couples
towards love on a Tuesday and a Thursday
in week one, and then we tip them again on
week two, and you create this virtuous
cycle of loving behavior, and then there's
more warmth, there's more grace. We are
living out our faith, right, and what our
faith calls us to be in our marriage. And
it just builds. It builds this positive
loving momentum. Some of the prompts that
I've gotten, I've actually applied later
because I didn't know it was like, even
that you saying you holding her is like,
you would know to do that again at a
different time and so that you wouldn't
even need to be prompted. I'm like, oh,
this is the moment. Because there are
things that I didn't know that I didn't
know that would matter. What are you
laughing at? The timing is really
important when you actually, like, there's
been a few times that I've tried to act on
a prompt. It was just the wrong timing.
One of Lisa's is when I kiss her neck. And
so I remember the first time it came up I
tried to sneak up behind her, and it
scared me. Kiss her neck. And she's like,
what are you. You actually have to kind
know. Timing's everything, I guess. Yeah,
but you know what? And I was like, I
appreciated the attempt. And then it was
kind of actually funny that it scared me
instead of it being like a moment, but it
still was a moment. It was a funny moment.
And actually, I am the queen of
shenanigans. I love jokes. I love playing
jokes. So if it was a love language, it
would be one of mine playing jokes on
people. Absolutely. Even that was a
moment. That's right. A little misfire.
Yeah, that's right. That's awesome. Well,
we think it's a powerful app and a great
tool. We were processing before this
conversation just about how we would share
it with even couples who are getting ready
to get married as maybe a wedding gift for
new couples. Because those first five
years, really, the first year is
important, but the first five years, that
they can build that virtuous cycle of
showing intentional love towards one
another is so important. And then we work
with a lot of couples who, like yourself,
who are just trying to get a foot forward,
trying to work on their marriage. And
having a tool like this could be so
helpful in breaking some bad patterns of
acting accidentally in your relationship
with one another and having some
intentional steps to do that. If
somebody's listening today, how would you
encourage them to take advantage or jump
onto the platform? Yeah, so you can find
the app in a few different ways. So we
have it on iOS devices and also Android
devices. So Google Play and you would
search for Act Agape, all one word. There
are other agape apps that are definitely
not what we're talking about. So you want
to make sure you find the right one. So
it's A-C-T-A-G-A-P-E. All one word.
Actagape lasting marriage. So you can get
it there. You can also go to our website,
actagape.com. Yeah. And so you download
the app, create your Agape list, invite
your partner, kind of dig into the app.
It's key that in order to activate that
free trial, like the 30 days free, you
need to subscribe to act Agape Plus. And
that's important because that is what
turns on the love notifications. Right. So
it's not enough to just build your agape
list. You need to have it sort of showing
up in the midst of your everyday life. So
that's an important step. And that's also
how you get the 30 days free and just dig
in and take the love DNA scan. And one
thing I would highlight is an app is just
an app. An app is not going to change your
life. But if you have the mindset and the
heart of I want to love my spouse better
and more effectively, this is a very
powerful tool that will help you do that.
But it's just a tool. It requires the
mindset and the heart. And then we help
you live out that intentionality. That's
so good. Yeah, we encourage everybody
who's listening to get on, subscribe, do
the 30 day free trial. You're going to be
able to experience it and see how it makes
impact in your marriage. And it will make
impact in those 1st 30 days. And we'll put
all the information in the show notes.
We'll make sure that you get the right
spelling and the right app, but we would
really encourage you to do it. Scott,
thank you so much for your time. Thank you
for being on the podcast, and we're just
very thankful for your investment in
marriages. And thank you for you and the
team that have created this great tool.
And we're looking forward just to seeing
how it's going to continue impact
marriages. And honestly, we're excited to
hear from our audience. And if you get the
app, you use it. Let us know how it's
going. Send us a direct message at Art
Espousing or email us at
hello@artispousing.com we love to hear
your story and kind of champion these
tools for other marriages. So thanks
again, Scott, for being with us today.
James and Lisa, you're both awesome. Thank
you so much for having me and asking good
questions and for our shared vision of
trying to help marriages thrive. So thank
you very much. Awesome. Thanks again,
Scott, for being on the podcast. And then
thank you for all the listeners who listen
today. We really hope you'll take
advantage of the 30 day trial of Act
Agape. You can download the app for both
iPhone and Android, and I also put a link
to the website in the show notes. I think
this is timely. Act Agape in the week of
Thanksgiving because we could be thankful
for our spouses and speak words of
affirmation, act, help clean some dishes
and all the good stuff. So as we wrap
that. Yeah. Okay. As we wrap up today, we
want to wish you and your family a happy
Thanksgiving. If you have any questions or
comments about what you heard today, we
would love to connect. Email us at hello
at art espousing.com. You can also message
us on Instagram at Art Espousing. We would
also love for you to sign up for our email
list. With every episode, we send out an
email with a direct link to the show and
some news about what's happening with Art
espousing. You can sign up with the link
in the show notes or in our. Instagram bio
on the next episode. Lisa, you and I are
going to be sharing some of our insights
around some questions that we were
recently asked at Engage event that we
spoke at. I know it's going to be great
because these are real live questions from
people. And I was like, this is what art
espousing listeners are looking for also.
So I'm really excited about it. That's
right. We hope you'll join us for that.
Have a fantastic week, and we will see you