The Grow and Convert Marketing Show

A client told us ChatGPT kept recommending Grow and Convert until she had to reach out. So we copied her exact prompt into an incognito window. We were nowhere to be found. That one example changed how we think about AI search strategy entirely.

In this episode, we introduce Topic-Based GEO, our new framework for content strategy in the age of AI search.

We explain the concept of "invisible prompts" (the personalized context behind every AI search that makes prompt-level tracking unreliable), walk through how to build a topic map for your business, and share practical steps for creating the kind of content that actually gets LLMs to recommend you.

What is The Grow and Convert Marketing Show?

We share our thoughts and ideas on how to grow a business.

Chat, GPT or any LLM has so much
personalized context about the user.

Like what type of business it is, what's
their goal, what's their preference,

what they've used before, what if
they've already tried what they failed.

What I'm saying is even if you are
tracking the exact prompt that a

user happens to type in, even that
by the way, is low probability.

'cause the user's gonna
have a conversation.

Most people don't treat this like Google
and type, find me a content agency,

enter they have a long conversation
about their business problems and then

eventually that leads to content agency.

Even if you get lucky and you type
in the exact, you're tracking in your

tracking tool, the exact prompt that
the user's typing in, you're still

not gonna get the same answer as
them because you lack their context.

The companies that are being a
lot more specific right now are

the ones that are gonna win.

Because everyone's still thinking
about doing content for the SEO world.

They're still producing very
high level top of funnel content.

They're not even really
focusing on pain point SEO yet.

But what we're saying is now
content strategy needs to be even

more specific than just targeting
bottom of the funnel keywords.

You have to think about all these
different scenarios and right for those.

Welcome to the Grow and
Convert Marketing Show.

I'm Devesh, that's Benji.

Today we are going to talk about.

How a lot of our AI search and GEO
thinking and the different articles we've

published and what we've learned from
our client work from building Traqer and

tracking, this is starting to coalesce
into this strategy or framework that.

We're calling topic-based GEO, which
I know is a name we've used before,

but I think we're now starting to
get our mind wrapped around what the

framework and strategy should be.

So we're kind of gonna retake that name.

But the lead up to it that I want to
talk about is our most recent article.

So just for everyone listening, if
you haven't followed every single

thing we've done, first of all.

Why not se Second of all,
I will recap for you.

So our core framework to date has been
prioritized, GEO, that argued that

you should prioritize content that
teaches LLMs about your product, what

it does, why it's good already that has.

The beginning seeds of what we're
gonna spend most of this episode

talking about of topic-based GEO,
but a lot of prioritized, GEO was

talking about these three tiers.

That was tier one, like your own
content that influences and teaches

LLMs about your brand and product.

Tier two was then getting mentions in
other people's content and we argued

a bunch in that post about how you
should actually not focus on what.

At that time, and honestly still kind of
today, a lot of people in the marketing

world online are talking about, which is
tier three, which we say is like onsite

tweaks, changing headers to questions,
FAQs, LLMs, TXT, that that is just stuff

you do to try to feel productive, but it
actually doesn't expose your brand to lms.

That's still halt, very, very much holds.

We've been applying it.

Those are kind of the early frameworks
of what we're calling topic-based GEO.

Then the other one that we have.

Is that's key and foundational
and still very much true is the

post you did even before that.

That basically, I think the title is
something like why ultra specific bottom

of funnel content wins an AI search.

Don't hold me to that.

I think you're right.

And, and that one you wrote kind of at the
early stages of when this was blowing up

in 2025 and last year, I, I wrote, I wrote
it actually in 2023, but essentially.

What the argument, yes, but the ar the
argument was that with ai, you're just

gonna need to be way more specific in
terms of what you're writing about, just

because of how people are searching.

So Google was, people are primarily
searching like short form, they're

searching head keywords, they're, they're
just searching like short phrases.

And so Google tried, basically
trained people to search.

That way.

And then with AI, we saw people using
a lot more longer form questions,

identifying themselves saying,
I am the CEO of this company.

This is the problem that
I'm trying to solve.

What is the solution for me?

And so when we just saw how people
were searching, we came to the

conclusion that content was gonna
be, need to be much more specific

because a lot of people were writing.

For keywords and they weren't
taking into consideration all

this identifying information.

And so if someone's saying, I'm
this person, I'm trying to solve

this very specific problem,
what's gonna be best for me?

If you didn't have content that spoke
to that really specific question, you

weren't gonna be surfaced as an answer.

And so essentially we just argued in
the future, content strategy is going

to need to change by, instead of writing
for these really short form questions,

you're going to, you're gonna actually
want to be really specific, talking

about really specific case studies.

Use cases of your product,
talking to specific personas.

Um, and yeah, so that was, uh, the article
that I wrote and that definitely is

the early seeds of, of what we're gonna
talk about here with topic-based GEO.

You had a second argument in there that's
important that I need to make sure we say

so that the readers are on the same page.

Listeners are on the same page,
which is, you also made an argument

at the beginning, by the way.

AI search is kind of killing top of funnel
content that's kind of separate from

the specificness specificity That was.

First of all, top, top of funnel
content like the how tos intro guide

to your industry, blah, blah, blah.

Any kind of just informational
question, chat t and all will

just answer it for the user.

In fact, chat t itself often doesn't even
link to sources unless it really needs to.

So it's not gonna mention your brand
and it's not gonna like link to you.

And even if it does, if someone's
just like asking in our case.

Someone's just like, Hey, help me
build a content strategy that's,

you know, SEO and GEO friendly.

For example, like we in in the Google
world, we would have an article on that.

They would Google it and
then we would show up.

They would be on our site and be
like, oh, this is really smart.

Who are these people?

Or whatever.

That's the normal flow that
the top of funnel argument is.

They're just gonna have that conversation
with Chacha, bt, and it has zero

reason to mention grow and convert.

So that was that.

Now with those things we've
said kind of in the books.

Right content on your site.

Be specific.

Top of funnel is dead.

Let's continue to the latest
thing we just published and then

we'll get to topic based GEO.

That latest thing we called
invisible prompts, and it was

kind of another extension.

So you said 2023.

That like blows my mind, by the way.

Just how old and how fast time
travels and how old we are.

So, so, um, I swear it was like six
months ago that you published this anyway.

So then I think the evolution of that
that we saw, especially working on Traqer,

where we got exposed to more than just
our clients, but like people who use

these visibility apps is, I think what
a lot of people started doing is like,

okay, they understood that keywords,
what was SEO keywords is now prompts.

And so like let's track our visibility
with like a longer question, which

is the start of what you're saying.

They would use these other tools.

We did, you know, we did reconnaissance
of other tools, peak and Profound and like

you, you put in your brand name into one
of those and it spits out these questions.

Heck Traqer also to some extent works
that way, although it is topic based.

We can talk about that
maybe in another video.

But that was kind of how
the world was operating.

You know, this marketing
GEO world was operating.

What invisible prompt says is
actually what we've learned

over maybe 2025, let's say, is.

Even that is insufficient, that being
switching from a short keyword to a long

prompt and be like, oh, Benji, look,
I did what you said in your article.

I have like a long question.

So instead of content marketing agency
enter, which is the Google SEO, short

keyword look, I'm tracking in my tool.

Help me find the best content
marketing agencies for SaaS.

Look, I put SaaS in there.

It's like a full question,
like, isn't that enough?

Yeah.

And a lot of these other tools that
have come out recently have tried

to position themselves that way by
saying, we're taking clickstream data.

We're taking data from somewhere.

And seeing that actual, and
we know those questions.

Yeah, we, we know the actual questions,
but knowing the actual question

still doesn't help you in terms of.

Being able to track what you show up for.

Uh, mainly we, we published a little
bit about this, but the study that

Rand Fishkin did recently is showing
that if you run the same search

over and over again, you can see
different brands show up for them.

And so same thing, even if you found
the same long form question, if

you're run that same search over and
over again in different browsers.

You're going to see
different answers show up.

And Rand's study was like, I think he
just got a bunch of volunteers to do

it, I believe in an incognito window.

I'm not sure I would need
to, to double check that.

Now, what Invisible Prompts argues is
actually, and, and let me pull up for

those that are gonna be watching this
on YouTube, I'm gonna pull up this nice

graphic, um, that we ended up making.

For this, 'cause the
graphic itself shows a lot.

So in this graphic, what it argues is
it uses an example of find me a content

agency with an iceberg and you kind
of see above the water and below like

the waterline, you know, in an ocean.

Is kind of, um, midway through the,
through the image and on the above, the

waterline and the iceberg that's visible.

It's just someone typing.

Find me a content agency into Chachi, pt
Below the waterline, we have kind of a

schematic or an example, a hypothetical,
all this detail, the idea being.

Chat, GPT or any LLM has so much
personalized context about the user,

like what type of business it is, what's
their goal, what's their preference, what

they've used before, what they've already
tried, what they failed, what is that?

That's symbolizing the massive
amount of context and history that

these LLMs have about their users.

As AI tools have become more popular.

Basically every single person that's using
them, like the kind of lead that you're

looking to get is the lead that's on chat,
GBT, and going there instead of Google.

First of all, who are those people?

They're not people that are searching
in anonymized, logged out, G Chat, GBT.

They are logged in.

They use chat GBT for
everything or whatever their

preference is, Claude, whatever.

Gemini, and so these things are developing
these long contextual histories.

All of these tools now, or at least
chat g, BT, and Claude at the time that

we're recording this, have options to
be like, remember different things about

me across all of my different chats.

What I'm saying is, even if.

You are tracking the exact prompt
that a user happens to type in.

Even that, by the way, is low probability.

'cause a user's gonna have a conversation.

Most people don't treat this like Google
and type, find me a content agency,

enter they have a long conversation
about their business problems and then

eventually that leads to content agency.

That's, that's one thing.

Even if.

You get lucky and you type in
the exact you're tracking and

your tracking tool, the exact
prompt that the user's typing in.

What Invisible prompts argues is you're
still not gonna get the same answer as

them because you lack their context and to
say what you said, like these other tools

that are saying, we have clickstream data
so we know what prompts are most popular.

What that's saying is that still doesn't
help you because the prompt is just

that last thing that the user types
in, but what is dictating the answer?

That's what you want to track.

We wanna show up in the chat.

Bt answer what's in the answer is
all this context behind the prompt.

That's why we're calling it
invisible prompts, that the full

prompt includes the history.

90% of that is invisible.

All you see is that last
little thing they type in.

So the argument here is we all as
marketers and you or whoever's listening

you, you can't be thinking about
GEO this way and tracking it this

way and measuring success this way.

What way?

Like SEO, you can't think of it
the way you think of SEO keywords.

Like are we ranking number one
for con best content agency?

Like you can't do that anymore because
that was predictable, more or less.

Tomorrow.

It's the same results on Google, but
we're saying today it's not even the

same results for two different people
because they have their actual history

and content agency is gonna include
all this specific personalized stuff.

And I have this really kind of
fun example of one of our current

active clients who typed in.

Uh, her prompt was, what
are the best SEO companies?

Who, by the way, who said, I found you
on chat, gt it, kept recommending you.

I needed to talk to you guys.

She's now, uh, uh, one of our, our
good clients and we said, can you,

for our own education, send your chat.

So she just like copied and pasted it,
and her exact prompt was, what are the

best SEO companies, in your opinion, who
have driven massive results with endless

leads for people in our kind of space?

And so I was like, and,
and the number one result.

So it had, I have the full start
of their answer and it mentions

growing convert number one.

Great.

So then I was like, how would we possibly
track this as marketers as an example,

so I could type the exact same thing in.

So I went to an incognito window and
I typed that exact same thing in, and

actually in our kind of space doesn't make
sense In incognito, you have no chance

of it doing the same, same thing as her.

Which by the way, just that,
just that shows you an example

of what we're talking about.

For leads for people in our kind of space.

You're like, what are
you supposed to track?

She typed in our kind of space,
she's already talking to chat PT

The prompt itself implies like,
you, you know what space I'm in?

So I was like, okay, in order
for this example to be somewhat

realistic, I need to like define that.

And I think I typed in something like
in the finance space or whatever, um,

results she's in, um, business loan space
or something, and I typed it in and.

We were nowhere to be found much less.

Number one, and I have an example
of the start of the answer, and

it's just totally different.

It not only recommends a different
agency, like everything about it

is different, and then the rest
of it we were just not in there.

And so that's the prototypical
example of an invisible prompt.

And so naturally what this
leads to is, so what do you do?

What's funny is this example
is actually like a positive.

In real life, it recommended us.

We got a qualified lead,
we closed the lead.

We have a great relationship
with this company, right?

It's like a great client.

And then, but then, but then in, in
in marketing tracking world, we're

like, uh, how, how would we even know?

How would we even know whether we're
doing a good job in our like, strategy?

Like how do we know what worked?

Why did chat PT recommend
us to her in her situation?

'cause we typing the exact same
thing in, and it's not even close.

So what do, what do you do?

And that's what's leading
Go, go, go down a little bit.

Yeah, so the, the key is in that
second part where it says real case

studies where they 10 x lead volume
for B two, B for SaaS and B2B.

This starts to get at the solution a
little bit, which, which is what we're

gonna talk about, which is topic-based.

GEO, topic-based, GEO is our strategy.

We're, we're in the final stages of
writing a post on this in terms of how

content strategy needs to change from.

Let's say Content 1.0 World, where
it was just SEO to Content 2.0 world,

which is SEO plus AI search, which
is essentially you need to cover

every area around a specific topic.

And so, for example, if we are
a content marketing agency that

largely services SaaS businesses,
what are all those questions?

That a SaaS business marketer
or business owner would ask

about doing content marketing?

Well, so from a, just trying to find
an agency, which is super bottom

of the funnel to case studies that
show that we can get results for

those types of businesses to all the
use cases that they're gonna have.

So like how to do content strategy
for a SaaS business, how to measure

results for a SaaS business.

What is the ROI of content
marketing for a SaaS business?

What changes is in that 1.0
world where we were just

focusing on ranking for keywords.

We had the pain point SEO process,
which was just no know their pain

points and then target keywords
attached to those pain points.

But now what changes is, again,
we need to go much more specific.

So if we have multiple different types of
SaaS companies, so if we have enterprise

SaaS that we work with mid-market SaaS.

Uh, uh, like a solopreneur running a
SaaS business, and maybe the content

strategy would slightly change for
each of those different businesses.

Now we need to delineate that in the, in
the content that we're writing, in case

studies and content strategy, we need
to have way more pieces explaining how

we do content marketing for all these
different types of SaaS businesses.

Whereas in, in that content.

1.0 world or just for uh, SEO.

We could just have SaaS content
marketing strategy and just write

one piece and rank for that.

And that largely did the work
of showing up when people were

searching around this topic.

Whereas now, again, the reason why
is really important because in that

SEO world, all of those different
types of customers that you just

mentioned, this type of SaaS, that
type of SaaS, they're kind of just

typing in the same thing into Google.

Right.

Yeah.

They're not going as specific.

Yeah.

In chat t or an AI search, even
if, first of all, they probably

don't type the same thing in.

They'll have a more customized long
prompt, long conversation where they're

like, listen, like this is my scenario.

I have these problems, blah, blah, blah.

And there's the twist I just showed with,
um, that example, I almost said their

company name or her name, but is the
example is, um, even if they don't type

it in, literally Chachi, BT already knows.

Because they've had
previous conversations.

And so what you just said was you need
to have scenarios for the problems.

What, why you're using us as an example,
our business, you need to have content

around like the pain points of enterprise
versus the small business example.

And then like all these things that they
may ask for because both the way the user

searches in ai, they're more specific and.

The AI itself, even if the user
doesn't type it in, is so smart.

It's bringing in all of
those specific things.

So the game becomes, the game becomes
think through all these pain points,

use cases, scenarios, and we're
using us as an example, but for

product companies like SA Software.

All of your little features.

When we talk to software companies,
they'll be like, this feature helps,

this really specific situation
that our like customers have.

Those benefits, the use cases, those
like solution and industry do dropdowns

you have on your marketing site.

Why?

Because.

You don't know the exact
prompt they're typing in.

You don't have this keyword research tool.

And as we argued, when profound or whoever
says we have clickstream data, it, it's

not that meaningful because they don't
actually know the personalized background.

So what you have to do is
you have to say, I know.

We're talking to our customers,
just like you said, Benji about us.

We know we have enterprise SaaS
versus mid-market versus SMB versus

solopreneur, and we've talked to them
and we know their unique pain points.

The Enterprise SaaS company has very
different pain points for why they

need a content agency and what they
need out of it than the solopreneur.

And we also know various situations
or problems that those people

would face inside their company as
it relates to content marketing.

So.

For example, they've tried other
agencies and those agencies didn't

do well for various reasons and going
into the specifics of those reasons.

And then they're looking
for another agency.

They've tried it in-house and it didn't
work for these various reasons, and

now they're looking for an agency, and
so they have a blog and it has a bunch

of traffic, but it doesn't convert.

Versus the younger startup
that's like, we actually haven't

even started this channel.

We don't have a blog.

Exactly.

And, and so when we need, when
we're writing content, talking

about all those scenarios in our
content is what helps us be surfaced.

And so even, even you saw in that
answer how it said, this company

has a number of case studies
showing that they know how to do it.

That's the proof.

So like, one, you, you have to be
able to talk about this strategy in

detail or how you guys do something
differently than everyone else.

And I will say that the companies that
are being a lot more specific right now.

Are the ones that are gonna win
because everyone's still thinking

about doing content for the SEO world.

Everyone is still thinking about.

They're still producing very
high level top of funnel content.

They're not even really
focusing on pain point SEO yet.

If you're just doing pain point SEO,
you're already doing better than a

lot of the other companies out there.

But what we're saying is now
content strategy needs to be even

more specific than just targeting
bottom of the funnel keywords.

You have to think about all these
different scenarios and write for those

and and produce a lot more content.

Talking about all these different
scenarios and situations that.

You guys do something differently.

So when the LLM is going to search and
they're trying to match which company

would be best at solving this problem
for the user that I'm trying to answer

this question for, if they have a ton
of proof on their site showing how

they've solved this problem for this
specific user, and they look across

the web and no one else has anything
talking about how they've solved this.

They might talk about it at a high level
in one of the posts saying, we're great

for some enterprise SaaS company, but then
there's no proof to actually back it up

saying, we've actually done this for this
company, this company, and this company,

and here's how we did it specifically.

They're not gonna recommend you because
the LLM is trying to not only answer find,

don't have information to recommend you.

They don't, they don't know
that you're a fit for it.

And the example that you were just
talking about in our example was here,

you, your, your eyes noticed two things
that in her prompt it was, what are the

best SEO companies, in your opinion,
who've driven massive result with endless

leads for people in our kind of space?

You're right, her prompt kind
of is begging for a case study.

It's saying like, give me companies with
this proof for quote our kind of space.

And Chachi PT knows everything about
her clearly because its responds with.

Great question, especially for a business
funding company like yours where look

at this, look at how smart that is.

It knows like what it needs to
do, where ranking for high intent

keywords, eg. Business loans fast.

Working capital MCA for contractors
can drive serious deal flow.

Yeah, so, so it already has all this,
what I, what I, what I see in this is

it's, it's picking up on our strategy
differences by talking about pain point

SEO, where it, it kind of hints at
these are the types of keywords that

you would wanna focus on because you're
saying you need to drive a lot of leads.

Mm-hmm.

And so, pain, pain point SEO.

Talks about this framework in detail
where we're saying you need to focus

on specific types of keywords if you
want to focus on driving results.

And then if we get into the strength
it goes into our specific case studies.

I, I already know it's pulling
from the Geek Geekbot case study

when it says 10 x lead volume.

Yeah.

For these types of businesses.

So again, having a breadth, which
is crazy by the way, because

Geekbot is like a SaaS product.

And as you can tell here, that
this client is like in bus,

in the business loan space.

Yeah, it, it's different.

But again, it's, it's, it's trying to.

It, it's searching the web and
even searching different agency

sites and trying to figure out
the best match for this company.

Right.

And, and it, and we have a breadth of
case studies that talk about how to do

content strategy for SaaS businesses.

Yeah.

And how we've done it successfully.

And then when it goes to why it works
for MCA, this is, this is also important.

They understand how to create pages
that rank and convert, especially for

niche financial, financial verticals.

And so it's also talking
about our ability to write.

Very like quality content for a very
specific type of business and audience.

And so it's the combination of
everything that we've written on our

site that is leading to this answer.

What's crazy is we, we didn't write
any of that to rank for this, like we

didn't write it for this GEO purpose.

That's kind of the main argument
of invisible prompts, and that's

the lead in to topic-based GEO.

That's the switch.

In SEO, it's like you pick the keyword,
you write content to rank for that

keyword, and it does if you do it right.

And here it's like your Geekbot case study
obviously wasn't written with her in mind.

It was written like a million years ago.

And it has, it's not even in her space.

It's like SaaS and it says that.

Yeah.

And I'll, but, but our, our case study
strategy and, and a lot of the stuff

that we've written in case studies
was never focused on SEO actually.

No.

Yeah.

What, what we were trying to do is.

With every client that we wrote a
case study about, we are trying to

talk about a very specific situation
that we helped solve for this

company that we knew a lot of our
other clients also fit that persona.

So as an example, with this case
study that we had for Circuit, they

moved from a sub-domain to sub-folder.

We actually just had a client,
actually we had two clients that

have signed with us in the last year
that also were kind of weighing.

Should I move from a
subdomain to subfolder?

And so talking about that situation in
detail about how we made that switch and

how it improved that traffic now is super
relatable to the same companies that

are weighing those decisions in house.

Then we have another case study on
an all in one SaaS business about

how to do content strategy where
we have multiple different feature

sets and you're a large business.

And then we have another case study
where it's like a self-service SaaS for.

Smaller businesses and how to
do content strategy for there.

So again, when we're thinking about
writing these case studies, we're thinking

about all the different situations that
our customers find themselves in, and

writing a story around that specific story
arc so that now when people are searching

an AI search, when they're identifying
themselves, I have this specific problem

in our business, do you know someone
else who can solve this problem for me?

We have a a ton of this proof
on our site that shows the LLMs.

That we know how to solve these problems
for all these different types of

businesses, and we need to continue to
do an even better job at this Now, now

that we're seeing this personalization
get taken into account, we need to think

through our our current client list and
think through what are the specific story

angles that we need to answer to help.

Uh, continue to build that breadth of
knowledge, um, in the, in the SaaS space.

And same thing, even from like, what
are all the different articles that we

haven't really written about SAS yet
that we need to, we need to go after?

Yeah.

I mean, we, you know, to peek
behind the curtain, one thing

I'll immediately say is.

We're literally working like an
hour before we recorded this.

I was editing a case study on AI
search and like GEO results we had

for a particular client because all
of our past case studies, obviously

historically are for regular SEO results.

And so we're sort of building that up
so that someone, someone has a similar

conversation as she did with chat GBT,
asking like gimme examples of agencies

that have really good track record.

In getting their clients
on Chachi VT or AI search.

We have that case study sort of, um,
catalog for the LLMs to pull from.

So perfect transition now into
topic-based GO, which is this

thing that's sort of in progress.

What we, what I said at the
beginning is this is kind of

the culmination or coalescing of
all of these different concepts.

I, I wanna walk through this
little draft we have, but, but let

me lead tee, tee it up this way.

You could be listening and
be like, okay, Benji fine.

Like, you don't have to, I'm not supposed
to be targeting specific keywords.

We don't even know what prompts there are.

They're invisible, whatever.

So what you're describing
feels like, what should I do?

Just like create a ton of content.

Like is it random?

And this topic-based GEO concept and
strategy is meant to kind of answer

that and provide guidance to it.

That that is not just like, yeah, yeah.

Just create a bunch of
content like randomly.

Yeah.

'cause I do think that's what
a lot of people are doing.

They're, they're seeing ai.

Be able to produce content a lot faster.

So there's like, yeah, let's just like
write on every single topic, but no.

Oh, yeah, that, that, that's still gonna
lead to the same problems that you had

before where people were trying to.

Just right on every top of funnel,
topic and then bottom of funnel topic.

And they were just trying to like,
produce a ton of content and it was

just kind of random and haphazard.

We're saying no, there's, there's still
strategy to this and, and prioritize.

GEO kind of got as at.

What tactics should you prioritize
in your content strategy?

And we argued you need to focus
on producing content that goes

into detail about your product.

And then also the second tier
is getting your site mentioned

for those topics on other sites.

And now topic-based GEO is really
meant to help you think through, just

similar to pain point SEO and what it
did for SEO keyword strategy focus on.

These three specific topic
areas, topic-based GEO, is

meant to help you think through.

What type of content do I need
to produce that to help me show

up in all these different LLMs?

So here's kind of the background.

I'm sharing this Google Doc.

A lot of this is work in progress,
but we thought it'd be fun like on

the YouTube channel here to kind
of look at us and draft, uh, stage.

So the working title I have that's
really a mouthful and wordy right

now is topic-based GEO, creating
detailed content about your

product and its use cases for LLMs.

What I wanna focus in on, so.

I, we walked through a lot of the
arguments that we just walked through on

this episode, so I'm gonna skip over that.

I wanna m move into, and you can see
here, there's even some old phrasing

that I'm just gonna literally write on
the episode fix so that you guys can

see us kind of working in, in real time.

But we initially called it like
having a product detail library.

I'm starting to hone in on
this phrase like topic map.

And so let's start with.

The, this part, let's let, or let's end
with this part, which is the kind of four

or five steps here that we're wrapping
our minds around or kind of starting to,

to, to zero in on for, for what topic?

Base ratio means in practice,
number one, and this is kind of

the critical part I wrote, we map
every product angle that matters.

So that's what you should do.

Like you need to every brand, everyone
listening, if you wanna do this, you

need to think about every single angle.

Like, and, and, and I'll read
a couple of these examples.

Your categories, your competitors, your
use cases, the target personas, the

jobs to be done, the pain points it
solves, and that's your target topic map.

I love this line.

The f the topic map is the full
universe of conversations where an

LLM could potentially recommend you.

That's what Benji you were talking about
is like, now we're in this scenario where

you don't know, like SEO beforehand,
what people are searching with.

Like, oh, this keyword has this volume.

But what you do know is you do know
your customer or you should, if

you don't, you have other problems.

Geo is not your problem.

You have other marketing problems
or business problems, so you

need to know your customer.

When you know your customer,
you know the questions they're

asking, like listen to the sales
conversations, which by the way, like.

We've been saying that for 10 years, so
it actually, it's coming full circle.

And as an aside, I've had conversations
with other folks in SEO space who say LLMs

and AI search, although it's disrupting
our whole industry and making us think

through all this stuff, it's kind
of, a lot of people are arguing, it's

pushing everyone to be better marketers.

You can't hack it the way you can hack
Google, where you'd have some big brand

that produced kind of crappy content
that just always was on the first page

because their domain authority was high.

Like now the LLMs are so smart, they're
not just like, I'm just gonna pick the

biggest domain authority for this like
head keyword that doesn't exist anymore.

In L in AI search, they're like, oh,
you have this really specific problem.

Oh, you need business loan, like a
content agency to 10 x your leads.

Like, let me go through
and figure out who that is.

And so your topic map is you
kind of laying the seeds on

the internet with content.

That teaches LLMs when they
crawl, when they search the web.

You know, when you type something into
chat BT and it says, searching the web.

You need to be there.

When your customer's doing
that and having a similar

conversation as we just showed you.

For us, of all these different use
cases, scenarios, you need content

that the LLM discovers and says, oh,
that exactly is like what my user's

asking me right now, this company.

Maybe I should recommend them.

Yeah, I, I think a key thing is that.

Uh, I feel like a lot of people are, are
focusing on like the hacks and tactics and

the things to drive short term results.

If you don't think that the LLMs are
gonna continue to get smarter, just

think about the evolution of yeah,
LLMs from three years ago to now,

and how much better they are at both
writing and finding answers for you

that's going to continue to improve.

And so there's a lot of people
that are just focusing on like.

I don't know, putting a bunch of Reddit
information on spamming social media

like schema, like trying to trick the
LMS into Yeah, an answering the question.

I, I think the proof part is going
to be way more important than most

people think because now it can scan
your site and see if you have an exact

case study that matches this person's.

Like what they're looking for.

And so if you don't have that proof
point, like I feel like what a lot

of people are trying to say is like
even, even with list posts, they're

trying to say, I'm the best at this.

Yeah.

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