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What if your company culture wasn’t just an HR buzzword but the secret weapon to scaling your business?
Welcome to Kan Talk Kulture, the podcast that dives deep into how remarkable company cultures are intentionally built and how they can transform your team, your business, and your bottom line.
Hosted by Kylie Anne Neal, founder of Kan Kulture and a passionate expert in people, culture, and leadership, this show is designed for business owners, CEOs, HR professionals, and anyone who believes that empowered people are the key to long-term success.
Each episode features real conversations with inspiring CEOs, business leaders, and culture champions who share how they’ve shaped their team environments alongside case studies, practical tips, and bold questions that challenge the status quo.
Whether you're looking to boost employee engagement, create a high-performance team, or align your people with your vision, this podcast will help you connect the dots between culture and growth.
At Kan Kulture, we believe in Kindness, Understanding, Learning, Trust, Uniqueness, Respect, and Evolving, and this podcast brings those values to life.
If you're ready to turn your team into your biggest brand ambassadors and create a workplace people love, this is the podcast for you.
Find out more at www.kankulture.com
Hi, I'm Kylie Anne Neal, founder of Kan Kulture and welcome to Kan Talk Kulture. In this podcast, I sit down with some of Australia's most progressive founders and CEOs to explore the heart. Of their company cultures, what drives them, what they value, and what it's really like to work for the companies they lead.
You'll also find occasional episodes packed with practical HR insights to help you. Build safer, stronger, and more trusted workplaces. So whether you're a new team member, getting to know your workplace, curious about creating remarkable company cultures, or just wanting to know more about implementing HR best practice, you are in the right place.
Let's dive in.
Hi, and welcome to Kan Talk Kulture. My name's Kylie Neil, and I am joined today by Georgina Walker, who's the people and culture consultant at Kan Kulture. Hello Georgina. Hello, Kylie. Hello. So today we're gonna talk about energy at work. Mm-hmm. And how it really is the missing metric in performance conversations.
So let's just kind of frame this a little. 'cause I think this episode is really about showcasing the way that we look at performance reviews. At Kan Kulture. We've created a a very, very different stance on performance reviews. The intention comes from. We believe that having performance reviews is still very important.
We believe that those performance reviews still have the same meaning that the 1 3 5 check-ins have during onboarding. If you haven't listened to that episode, go back and listen to it, but it is about pausing, reflecting. Having a meaningful conversation between a leader and their direct report. The ingredients that we thread through the performance reviews is very different though we do focus on energy at work.
We ask questions of what gives you energy at work. We ask the question of what drains your energy at work? Mm-hmm. We've been using this for a couple of years now, and it really is the missing metric in performance conversation. And the reason why it is, is because. If we have a conversation with an employee about how much time they spend on a task, it doesn't really give us anything.
It doesn't, it often doesn't match what the outcome is. It doesn't give it any substance. But if we talk about. What things give you energy. And we do also work with strength profiling, which I think is quite telling often of where people navigate to when they are being energized by the work they do. But we are really able to really tease out where people get that discretionary effort from.
Because if they're doing high energy. Activities that give them energy, then they will be able to work in flow a lot better. They will be able to concentrate and focus, and they will be able to have really great outcomes, which does equate to great productivity. So that's a bit of a highlight about why we ask, what gives you energy.
Mm. Georgina, do you wanna talk about the, the other side of that, about asking employees about what depletes their energy or what tasks that they do that they don't feel energized?
Yeah, I guess it's coming from an angle of understanding things that they perhaps don't like as much as the things that give them energy.
It's not to say that, you know. Uh, an Excel spreadsheet depletes my energy, so stop giving me tasks around Excel, but it's more that you understand what I do, like, what I don't like, and how to manage that expectation.
Yeah. Ab moving forward. Yeah, absolutely. So the de the, the. Roles or tasks that deplete energy in every single role.
There's things that you love doing Yes. And things that you need to do because it's a requirement of the role. Yeah. Um, you know, asking about energy and energy out is not about reconstructing job descriptions to just make sure someone's on a high all day at work. Like it's absolutely not about that, but through understanding what depletes energy.
You're right. It is a very telltale sign of giving a really powerful way for the leader and their employee to be able to construct their workday to match the tasks. To match the energy level of those
tasks. Yeah. And you know, sometimes someone might say, the way my leader speaks to me, depletes my energy.
You can change those types of things. But it's about, yeah, facilitating those conversations and understanding. What what it actually is. Yes. Not task specific.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good point. Because relationships can sometimes deplete energy. Yes. They're draining. They can be, but you know, we, we don't talk about those things in the workplace.
Like if you look at it from a team environment.
Mm.
There's certain personalities that you're just around and they're just contagious. Yeah. And it's just like I walk in the room and all of a sudden it's like, ah. Yeah. And then there's other people where you walk in the room and it's just like, nah, it's drain.
Yeah. And you're right. Like, you know, being able to open up the conversation and identify those things is not because you know, poor Joe, like. Is an energy depleter. Poor Joe. Poor Joe, jeez, poor Joe. But he doesn't give you energy. Yeah. And you know, there's the uniqueness. He could give somebody else energy.
Mm. So what, what can be done? Like, you know, it might be about, okay, well in meetings you position yourself so you're not sitting directly next to Joe. Mm-hmm. Uh, or if there's particular things that you need to, uh, meet with Joe. You understand what his strengths profile is, and you communicate with him in a different way where you understand what you're going into.
So there's, there's absolutely different strategies and different things to be able to go, okay, these are the tasks that give me energy. When during my day week do I do those? Energy driven tasks.
Mm-hmm.
And how do I manage these energy depleting tasks? Do I do them first thing in the morning because I've got more energy naturally in the morning, and then I work on the ones that give me high energy in the afternoon because they're very.
Natural and I feel really authentic and I give that discretionary effort when I'm doing them. We can construct our days to work with our energy levels. Yeah, definitely.
The, the next thing I like about our performance check-ins is the advice. Yes. Um, so that's advice to self, advice to leader and then advice to the business, and I think this is really important to have that, that two-way streak.
Yes, absolutely. So yes, our. Performance reviews focus on energy. They focus on advice. Mm-hmm. And we flipped feedback. Traditional performance reviews have feedback and it's normally, you know, we, we talk about the meaninglessness in the tick and flick exercise and feedback is often that, and we all, you know, it's, it's, it's no secret that when you come to a performance review.
It should not be something that the employee has not heard before. No. So feedback is, is not, it doesn't have a place here, but if you think about the word feedback, it's. You are going to give me something. Mm. Advice is I'm going to give you something. Mm. So the advice really flips that empowerment piece to the employee.
Mm.
For the leader to listen, actively listen to.
I feel like feedback's almost reactionary, whereas advice is constructive.
Yes. Hmm.
Hmm. I like that one. Hmm. Put it in the marker. Yeah, I like that. Let's use that. Yeah. Save that one.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and the advice to self
Yeah. Is
that reflection of. How am I going in my role?
If I, you know, what advice have I got for myself if I had a really honest look at myself instead of waiting for the leader to say, this is where you're at. This is what you need to work on. We all know. Yeah, but sometimes we just don't. We, we, we expect it from others, but we don't sit with ourselves to have that honest conversation to own.
Own ourselves and where we're at. And be reflective. And be reflective. Yeah. Particularly in today's world, social media. Mm-hmm. Flip, flip, flip. Go, go, go. Scroll, scroll, scroll. You know, change, change, change. Like snippets on TikTok and whatever. We don't, we don't reflect. We need to pause and reflect on ourselves.
And performance reviews are the space for us to take that information to our leaders. The leaders absolutely. You know, can put that leadership lens on it to help guide us. One of the things that I always say to people is know what your needs are and then ask for your needs to be met. And that can be done through performance reviews, but we need to understand what our needs are, and that takes reflection and it takes some really honest conversations with ourselves.
Mm-hmm. When we look at advice to leaders, that can be really. Confronting because if you are a direct report and you have a subservient nature, you don't wanna be telling the leader what they should be doing. But to reframe or rephrase that the leader wants to show up for you in the best way that they possibly
can.
Could you give an example of how you would give advice to a leader? So I think. The question, what advice would you give your leader to be an evermore effective leader for you?
Absolutely. So it might be that the, oh, give an example. One-on-one meetings, you're you, you're constantly feeling like in your one-on-one meetings, they're 20 minutes long.
It is the tick and flick. You know that the leader has confidence in your ability, but they're not giving you the space that you need to be able to seek the support that you're after. Mm. Like that could be an example. Mm-hmm. And to ask, to give advice on that, you could frame it as when we have our one-on-ones.
I would, I would like more time with you. Mm-hmm. I'd like to give you some advice that I feel like in our one-on-ones, it makes me feel like we are rushing through it, and I don't feel like I get enough time to really delve into the support that I'm asking from you.
Mm-hmm.
That's respectful. You're not saying that the leader's a bad leader.
You're just knowing what your needs are. I need more time with you and what you are doing makes me feel like this, and using language like
this is what I need. Yes. They can't say no to that. Yes,
yes, yes. Another good line is what I observe and what my experience is, so you're making it about you. These are my observations.
These are my experiences. You do what you want with this advice that I'm giving you, but these are my experiences and I'm offering you the gift of this advice. Yeah, I like that. The third bit we have in there. So it's advice to self, advice to leader, advice to company.
Yes.
So advice to company. We, as I said, we've been doing these for the last couple of years.
It normally comes down to. Culture moments. It normally comes down to people's broader experience within the organization. Mm-hmm. Sometimes it's, I want a wellness day, or, I don't know, I, things are too busy and I, you know, I'm, I'm often needing to come in early consistently, like, we need to look at whatever.
I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. But that, that's, that's kind of what we more broad, more broader, and. We do do engagement surveys with all of our, with all of our clients. And it's normally taking that engagement feedback and it's normally the same flavor. Mm-hmm. Uh, but it really does, we pull the advice to company out of each individual and we create a report for the business.
Yeah. So it, it is a really good time. 'cause again, if the employee has sat down and they've taken the time to reflect. What's my advice to myself? Mm-hmm. I'm reflecting on what's my advice to my leader. They're in that reflection to carry on with and what's the advice to the business? So as they're going through that process, they're reflecting on how connected they are, what's working for them, what's not working for them to get to that end point of this is the advice that I've got to the business.
So it is what they're writing there, but. More importantly, it's the meaningful process that they go through to get to that advice that they've put on the page.
And in those reports you pull out from advice to business, do you find that often the the same thing is said?
Yes. Yes. And again, sometimes they're easy fixes and sometimes they're, sometimes they're a little off point.
And that's telling in itself because it means that there's a lack of alignment. You know, to use an example, sometimes I've seen them say, you know, make comments about the, um, the lack of strategy of the business. So they, they can't align with the business because they don't know how they connect to the business.
And they might use different wording to strategy or, you know, I don't have clarity.
Yeah, give me, give me more. Yeah.
Someone that says I don't have clarity means that there's either not a strategy or the strategy is not clearly communicated. There's no process within the structure of the business to say strategy and the cascading approach of.
Connecting it to individuals that work within the business.
Yeah.
So that's really telling, right? That's really telling for us as HR professionals, and it's also telling to the CEO and the leadership team that there's something missing. There's a disconnect there that can really easily be resolved through process.
Yeah. Do something about it.
Yes. Actions. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes.
So after advice to the business, we sort of go into actions.
Yes.
So actions that the employee would commit to ensure they're progressing to company objectives, completing required tasks, and making your work more fulfilling. Yes.
So the way that we.
Designed and developed this performance review was to not over-engineer what methodology we were using for actions or goal setting. Throughout my career, I've seen many, many different goal setting and people get really caught up in writing their goals properly.
Mm-hmm.
And they lose the impact of the performance review because they're too caught up with, should this be 5% or 7%?
Is it. A smart goal. Do I have all the ingredients? What the hell does a smart goal mean? So I wanted to really simplify that because I think at the end of the day what you are, what actions you are taking, everyone knows what they're working towards and going through what actions are you doing that are, that are gonna have impact and meaning for the next one 20 days?
Because we work with that one 20 day cadence take makes it really simple. It shows up differently for different people. Some, some leaders really struggle with that. I'm okay with it. So it is about enabling the employees to take ownership of their action in a way that it shows up for them sometimes if the actions are written and they're too broad or they don't have the right amount of meeting the.
Leader can come and say, okay, let's tease this out and let's make it more meaningful. Let's make it more impactful. You can tease out is this really realistic for you to achieve in the next one 20 days, or is this like a year long project? Like let's get really finite so the leader can help massage the, what the actions are that are going to be reasonable for that one 20 day process.
And it's sometimes also telling that. Sometimes employees write down actions that aren't impactful for their job and they've got, you know, big projects that they're working on, but they don't really understand their role in that project. So they focus on what their BAU might be.
Mm-hmm.
So there's really telling signs with leaving it really open of.
Actions, what are, what are the three main actions that you're taking? It can be really telling as to where employees at, and then it is, you know, substance and meaning in the conversation when they're in the performance review to talk through that.
Mm,
yeah. Thank you. And then I guess the next section is the growth and development.
Yeah, so can you talk to that a little bit more?
Yeah, sure. We'll probably do another episode on growth. Like I feel like that'ss like a whole thing in doing, you know, looking at people's growth and development, and we have an annual process for that. But from the purpose of performance reviews in the one 20 day cadence, it is just about checking in on.
What experiences of growth and development is that individuals seeking for the next one 20 days? So again, we're, we're honing it into a finite period of time to make sure that it's not just an annual process of setting a growth plan to make sure that they're reminded about the activities that they're committing to it.
It may be an external course, but it doesn't have to be, you know, the internal experiences that they can get for upskilling. The growth people, particularly these days, I think need to know that they're growing. Mm-hmm. That they're developing, that they're on the right track, that they're upskilling, and to enable that as a subset of the performance review keeps the conversation between leader and their employee front of mind.
Yeah. And the structure of these check-ins is employee. Complete self-reflection manager makes comments, employee, employer, sit down and have the discussion. Correct? Yes.
Yes. Yep. Absolutely. So employers need to lead it. I've seen many versions of performance reviews where it's just like the manager goes in with a, with a blank sheet of paper and says, let's have a performance review.
Let's
get to it. Let's get to it. And then they
scribble down some notes and then they walk out and the
piece of paper's gone.
Disappeared. It's not meaningful. Yeah. And it's not, it's not empowering. Leaders don't own the performance of their, their employees. Employees own their experiences. And again, today, more than ever, like organizations that you work for are a vehicle of your career.
They're not the be all and end all of your career. So that organization doesn't. Own your, own your career.
Yeah.
You know, and people are a lot more, flippant is probably the wrong word, but there are, they are a lot more transient than what they used to be. So it is about celebrating them and giving them the best experience whilst they're there.
And these performance reviews are a very big part of that process of. What it, what's your energy, what's your advice? What's your growth? What's your actions? Yeah. Like they're, they're the really key ingredients to have a meaningful performance review. Mm-hmm. Thanks, Kylie. Thank you, Georgina. Thank you for joining me again, and thank you everybody who has listened to this episode, and we look forward to
having you next time. Thanks for joining me on Kan Talk Kulture. I'm Kylie Anne Neal. I hope today's episode gave you a clear review into the values driving your workplace. All sparked new ideas about building a remarkable company Kulture. If you're a founder or CEO interested in sharing your culture story, or if you are looking to build a safer, stronger, and more trusted workplace, let's connect.
Visit Kan Kulture.com. That's KA. K-U-L-T-U-R e.com to learn more. Please hit that subscribe button to hear more real conversations with founders and CEOs and hands-on episodes full of people. First culture advice. I look forward to connecting with you on our next episode.