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Tune in every Tuesday for a brand new episode of Don't Eat Poop! A Food Safety Podcast. Join Francine L. Shaw, the savvy CEO of Savvy Food Safety, and Matthew Regusci, compliance connoisseur and founder of Fostering Compliance, as they serve up the latest in food safety with a side of laughter.
Explore the ins and outs of food systems, responsible food practices, and food safety regulations. Stay informed about food safety awareness and the not-so-occasional food recall. Delve deep into the complexities of the food supply chain with our dynamic duo, who blend expert insights with a pinch of food safety humor. Whether you're knee-deep in the food safety industry or just passionate about what's on your plate, this podcast promises a fresh take on staying safe while eating well.
Expect candid conversations, personal anecdotes, and occasional guest appearances that spice up the discussion. Shaw and Regusci bring their combined decades of experience to the table, making each episode as informative as it is entertaining. From industry trends to must-know food safety news and regulations, they've got your back (and your lunch).
In essence, Don't Eat Poop! A Food Safety Podcast is not just about imparting information; it's about fostering a culture of food safety. By shedding light on the intricacies of the food supply chain and the latest food safety news, it aims to promote awareness and encourage responsible food practices among consumers and industry professionals alike.
When it comes to food safety, knowledge is power, and a good laugh is the best seasoning. At the heart of every episode is one golden rule: Don't Eat Poop!
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[00:00:00] Matt: Poultry processing plant was under investigation by Homeland Security as early as 2020. Additional federal interest occurred in 2022 when the arm of a 14-year-old employee was seriously injured while cleaning. Yeah, because this is industrial machines. These processing plants have massive industrial machines.
You get an arm near there, it's coming off
[00:00:32] Intro: Everybody's gotta eat, and nobody likes getting sick. That's why heroes toil in the shadows, keeping your food safe at all points, from the supply chain to the point of sale. Join industry veterans Francine L. Shaw and Matt Regusci for a deep dive into food safety. It all boils down to one golden rule: don't eat poop.
Don't eat poop.
[00:00:57] Matt: Hello, hello, Francine. Well, [00:01:00] we have an interesting topic today, a little different than normal. Still has to do with food.
[00:01:07] Francine: Different side of the industry.
[00:01:09] Matt: Different side of the
[00:01:10] Francine: industry. I
[00:01:11] Matt: guess. Yes.
[00:01:12] Francine: Well, part of the industry that people don't usually think about, I guess. Child labor laws.
Have you ever had to deal with child labor laws?
[00:01:22] Matt: Yes. When I was a manager at Starbucks, because we hired high school kids, so they were very strict. Obviously, we're talking about Starbucks, so- We had to follow everything to a T. But that's the only time I've ever dealt with child labor laws. I- my clients did as-
[00:01:48] Francine: Farmers
[00:01:49] Matt: yeah, farmers. But-
[00:01:50] Francine: So I have, on multiple occasions, had to deal with different aspects of the labor [00:02:00] industry as an employee. When I was 15 years old, I worked with this other... Well, I worked for a corporation, and there was myself and this other, it was a boy who was 15 years old, and we would work anything.
Any hours they would give us, whatever they would give us, we would work. And you weren't allowed to work more than five hours without a 30-minute break, and a minute over the five hours, it was a labor violation, and more than X number of hours a day, and the whole thing. And again, we would work as many hours a week as they would let us, and they had an inspection by the Department of Labor, and we both, we both had labor violations because we would do whatever they wanted us to do.
So that was a problem. And then many years later, [00:03:00] this is so funny, whenever as a business owner, you do a labor audit, and when you own a company, turns out that you have to pay yourself. Well, for the first few years that I owned my business, I did not pay myself. I was dumping everything back into my business.
I had two businesses. I had started a business with my husband and I to start, to support my business selling food safety, and that's how I was being paid, was through that business. So I didn't have to pay myself. That's how we were earning money, I should say. So I didn't have to pay myself through my business.
I was in- reinvesting everything back into my business, the income we were earning. And they did this labor audit, and it was that individual that did the labor audit, the one that worked for that company. We both had the labor violations when we were 15. How funny is that? [00:04:00] So yes, and then of course, as a manager of...
When I was a manager, of course, I had to make sure that I wasn't breaking any labor violations. And because I had been, been involved when I was 15 years old with a labor audit, and that had created some issues for the store that I worked in, I knew the importance of not having any labor violations. So I always made sure that we did not have any work permits, and people taking their breaks, and not working when they weren't supposed to, and all of that.
[00:04:35] Matt: Yeah.
[00:04:35] Francine: So the story that we're about to talk about, that would have never-
[00:04:41] Matt: Well, the
[00:04:41] Francine: story we're about to talk about- And I, just imagine- ...
[00:04:43] Matt: is wrong in a lot of reasons. Wrong for a lot of reasons. But you and I always have this conversation every talk about, every single time we talk about child labor, because you and I both worked...
I started working for my dad in janitorial, which is, the article is gonna be about [00:05:00] janitorial services. In, my dad was a janitor. I started working for him graveyard shifts at the age of 9, 10. And then I continued working in that business until I was 12. Now mind you, when I was 12, I got pulled out of my house by Child Protective Services, so there were a lot of reasons, but that was totally slave labor, 100% absolute slave labor.
Well,
[00:05:28] Francine: and you both had some really bizarre expe- I was babysitting 11:00 to 7:00 and then going to school. We, we both had real bizarre experiences as, as children, 11:00 to 7:00 overnight.
[00:05:40] Matt: Yeah.
[00:05:41] Francine: Yeah. So-
[00:05:41] Matt: But I started working, working for a real job when I was 12 in my grandfather's tarp company. So my grandfather had a bunch of different companies.
But that I was being paid for, that I worked normal shifts, that all went through HR, and it was a summer job. And so I worked eight [00:06:00] hours a day Like a man, really. I worked in a tarp company doing a man's job. You know, in the beginning it was like gofer, and then I was like on the line. Did that for a few summers, and then ended up running a surf shop.
And so then I hired all my friends every summer from like 15 through 18. I was a manager of a s- like a local surf shop or whatever. But again, the owner handled everything and made sure that I was ... So that's where I had to learn how to schedule kids. But the only time we worked during the school year was on holidays and on weekends.
So there wasn't like this big deal with like school days because the owner just worked it during the school days. It was never really busy. He lived next door. But yeah, during the summer and holidays and weekends I was scheduling, basically it was my best friends, all my friends, [00:07:00] about 12, 15 of us. Just hired my friends and then we worked at the surf shop.
It was the coolest job ever. That was so much fun. It was either that or McDonald's. So you chose the fast food route, I chose surf shop.
[00:07:15] Francine: But before that we had this government agency that if you were low income you could apply for jobs through them and they would put you in different places. A job that to this day I can't believe I had because they put me at a college and I had to
It was landscaping. It was a landscaping job. Though I did help when we started the business we have, I did help with the landscaping, some of the landscaping there. But had to mow the grass and do the landscaping at a college in Shaversburg and clean the dorms when the kids got ... It was a girls college, so when the girls college, you'd have to clean the dorms and we would have to then mow the [00:08:00] grass and pull the weeds.
Oh my God, hated that job. Landscaping is not my thing. And then one summer they put me in a library At a school, at the high school, Dewey Decimal System
[00:08:13] Matt: Oh, that's right. That's before computers
[00:08:16] Francine: The snap of the books.
[00:08:17] Matt: Yeah. So I'm not opposed to teenagers working. Like you and I- Not at
[00:08:24] Francine: all ...
[00:08:24] Matt: yeah, you and I wor- our workmanship started really young, and it is a good thing for kids to learn those skills like we did when we were kids.
Now, slave labor, 'cause I would categorize from the time I was eight to the time I was 12, that was totally slave labor. I was working for my family business in janitorial at night shifts with my dad, then running the business for my m- m- running, I shouldn't say running the business, but running the shifts, the accounts, for my mom for, like, two years.
[00:09:00] My dad was gone, and I wasn't being paid, working night shifts while going to school and playing sports. So I played football and wrestling and all that s- different type of stuff, water polo, swimming. So I didn't get much sleep, you might say. This is probably why I'm able to do so much with so little sleep all the time, because I learned it at a very young age.
I had ADHD. So I'm not saying, like, that is not okay. But kids learning skills and working part-time and all that stuff is great. Hi, what we're gonna be talking about today, this is on Food Safety News, and Francine and I were looking at the, the articles, and this jumped out because it's different. And the, the headline is, "Sentence Scheduled for Former Janitorial Service Manager Who Forged IDs for Hundreds of Workers."
What was the percentage, Francine, before we give them the number? [00:10:00]
[00:10:00] Francine: 96%. 96. 96%.
[00:10:04] Matt: 96% of h- his employees had fake IDs. So to give the exact number, it's 336 out of 353 employees. So 100 Yeah. This operation was 100% illegal in multiple ways. Yeah, so I'm just gonna read this, 'cause it's, it's pretty short, but it tells the story well.
"A defendant who worked for Fayette Janitorial Services will be sentenced on September 17th after pleading guilty to obtaining fake identifications for undocumented workers, including children. John Bernard Mitchum, a Fayette Janitorial Service division manager, has pleaded guilty to conspiracy and aggravated identity theft.
[00:11:00] Fayette Janitorial Services is a contract cleaning service for Perdue Farms meat and poultry slaughterhouses." So this was, like, a manager of a whole group of employees for slaughterhouses and stuff like that, which if nobody's been into a slaughterhouse, those places are massive, massive factories, and they're pumping out meat.
What was the number, Francine? What was it that, that Darin Detwiler or Dr. Darin Detwiler was upset about, that they moved from, like, 125 chickens a minute to 175 chickens per minute?
[00:11:38] Francine: The visual of that is still just-
[00:11:40] Matt: Those chickens are screaming. They're going fast. They're not screaming because they're dead, but they're going very fast.
And it's not just gonna be one. It's gonna be one followed up by two or three, so like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. 175 per minute. That means that it's go... Like, a chicken is [00:12:00] zooming past you, like two and a half chickens are zooming past you a second. Maybe he hired children because they were underneath the chickens.
Their chances of them getting nailed by the chickens streaming by are lower. Is that part of their kill step is, is that the salmonella just flies off the chicken because it's going by so fast? I don't think it works that way. Oh my gosh. Okay. So the US Department of Labor found that 24 children, so about 10% of his employees were children as young as 13 working at the facilities operated by Perdue in Virginia and Seaboard Foods in Iowa for F- its cleaning services.
So of his employees, about little less than 10% of them were children as young as 13 working for him. The other ones, the other [00:13:00] 86%, were illegal with fake identities. So that's not good either. But 24 were children as young as 13.
[00:13:12] Francine: And then they were going to school.
[00:13:14] Matt: Yeah. Yeah. So the Nashville-based company paid $650,000 to settle the civil action lawsuit brought by the Department of Labor.
Federal law prohibits child labor in slaughterhouses, which is good. They shouldn't be in slaughterhouses. Like, you and I agree that children should be able to work, but children should not be working in these slaughterhouses. This is very different than children on the farm slaughtering animals, 'cause I did that.
That's different. That's, that is very... Another skill to learn, for those of you who aren't vegan, apologize, but people slaughter animals and eat them at home.[00:14:00]
[00:14:02] Francine: I mean- Make sure to have age-appropriate jobs. Yes. Uh- Age-appropriate
[00:14:05] Matt: jobs ... a slaughterhouse, I've been in a bunch of these. They're not for children. If you're not aware of your surroundings and you're... These places are dangerous for adults. They're... I'm not saying they should be shut down. I'm just saying you have to be 100% aware of your surroundings in a slaughterhouse.
So much
[00:14:26] Francine: stuff is happening- Okay, we can't shut them that down or we're not gonna have meat products.
[00:14:30] Matt: Right. But they're dangerous jobs. It's not as dangerous as coal mining, but it's still dangerous. Okay, this just goes to show you how fast our government works. This is hilarious, or sad, depending upon your personality.
Perdue McCormick County, Virginia poultry processing plant was under investigation by Homeland Security as early as 2020. Additional federal interest occurred in 2022 [00:15:00] when the arm of a 14-year-old employee was seriously injured while cleaning Yeah, because this is industrial machines. These processing plants have massive industrial machines.
You get an arm near there, it's coming off
[00:15:16] Francine: Just a perspective. A dough machine for bread, you're not even allowed to operate when you're 18. So think about what is in a meat processing facility, the machinery that's in a meat processing machinery
[00:15:30] Matt: A slaughterhouse. Yeah. They're, and they're making, in these slaughterhouses, depending on if it's chicken or whatever, even chicken, they're making ground chicken, ground turkey, et cetera, et cetera.
There's like huge grinding machines. A lot of these plants, they make the pink sludge that people talk about, they call it- Pink
[00:15:48] Francine: slime ...
[00:15:48] Matt: pink slime.
[00:15:49] Francine: Pink slime
[00:15:50] Matt: Which I've seen, and I'm like, "That's cool. You're figuring out a way of using all the product so nothing goes to waste." But some people look at it and get disgusted.
I get it. [00:16:00] Just different mindset, I guess. But these things are huge. There's huge vats, and the chickens are going by at 175 per minute, so.
[00:16:11] Francine: You know what I keep seeing? Remember, Derek, remember that chicken, that chicken squeezy thing? That toy?
[00:16:19] Matt: I hate the sound of that, the squeezy. It's like it goes err. I hate the sound of it, and it's a running joke in my house because the kids will buy me these every Father's Day or whatever.
They'll buy me these chickens knowing that I hate them. Like, I'll literally pull the, pull the voice thing out. For some reason, the sound just- The squeaky, the squeaker ... the squeaker, it's grating on me. So I'll pull the squeaker thing out and chuck it outside. Chuck it. Yeah.
[00:16:45] Francine: But your dogs don't have squeaky toys?
[00:16:47] Matt: Yeah No?
[00:16:50] Francine: I
[00:16:52] Matt: don't mind those Your project are gonna scream at you ... it's that chicken. It's the chicken sound like that it makes. Ugh. Yeah. But this is where you got the high school thing, and you and I read this and I, I missed [00:17:00] this but Homeland found that, again, 339 of 353 Fayette employees at Purdue facility were likely using fake identification and many were also attending the local Arcadia High School.
So working in janitorial and going to high school. Boy, this brings back some great childhood memories for me. But I was never... When I was working with my dad and stuff like that and, and ultimately working with an employee for my mom, managing an employee, we were doing like schools, nursing facilities, this type of stuff, not a meat packing plant.
The most thing that I could end up getting hurt by was, I don't know, cleaning a floor with a buffer and the buffer goes crazy and rips my arm out. And when I say rip my arm out, strain it because it goes off really fast and then I'm [00:18:00] holding onto it and that type of stuff, not losing an arm in a big old manufacturing machine
[00:18:07] Francine: I can't stand the smell of meat packing facilities.
[00:18:10] Matt: Oh, I don't mind it. It's interesting. I don't mind the smell of the meat packing facility, but w- working in janitorial, my dad would use ammonia and some of these different chemicals that smelled so bad. I hated the smell of those. But a meat packing plant? No. It takes a couple seconds where you're like, "That smells different."
And then it's like, then I just get used to it.
[00:18:32] Francine: I, I, I just, I don't like the smell of raw meat. I don't know when that started happening, but my husband does not like the smell of bleach.
[00:18:39] Matt: Yeah, I don't mind bleach, but ammonia, oh man, that smell is terrible. Yeah, so bunch of the employees were going to high school.
So Mitchum, the manager who got sentenced, was producing fake driver's license, birth certificates, and Social Security cards needed to keep undocumented [00:19:00] child worker scam going. Just call it the scam. Identities were sometimes reused if they passed muster in a practice known as refining. Purdue has terminated the contract with Fayyaz.
Yeah, no kidding. But I mean, the investigation started in 2020. Then a kid in '22, additional federal interest happens in 2022 when an employee, 14-year-old employee was seriously injured while cleaning, and he's just now getting sentenced in September 17th, 2026? Francine, when you watch your crime investigation shows, they always seem so fast.
[00:19:42] Francine: They can solve a murder in 45 minutes.
[00:19:45] Matt: Can you imagine how terrible an episode would be if you had to wait six years to figure out the solution of the sentencing? No.
[00:19:54] Francine: I'd be onto something new.
[00:19:56] Matt: Everybody was annoyed that Game of Thrones took six [00:20:00] years, six seasons, seven seasons.
[00:20:02] Francine: Yeah, no. My attention span would not be able to handle that.
No
[00:20:08] Matt: But gosh, so he was just like, "Okay, this employee is gone. Well, I still have all this identification from the boy that left. Let's rinse and repeat this fake identity and bring somebody else on."
[00:20:23] Francine: So the amount of people that are in the business of IDs is also probably pretty insane. I'm pretty sure it was my daughter when she was in college.
There was somebody on campus that made a fortune in fake IDs.
[00:20:42] Matt: Did you ever watch that movie Superbad?
[00:20:45] Francine: Probably. My husband might have watched it, so I, I'm sure I've probably seen it.
[00:20:49] Matt: Your bro- husband probably has. But if you've never watched this movie, it is an absolutely terrible movie, but it's so funny.
I don't think this movie could be made again [00:21:00] today, right now, because we were able to make movies differently 10 years ago, 15 years ago, than we do now. But there's a whole scene of these high school kids getting fake IDs, and the guy who, the kid who gets the fake IDs calls himself McLovin-
[00:21:18] Francine: Yeah ...
[00:21:19] Matt: on his ID.
It's
[00:21:21] Francine: hilarious. Yes. The- I think I've seen it.
[00:21:24] Matt: It's hilarious.
[00:21:24] Francine: That name sounds familiar, and I don't think I would've heard it anywhere else.
[00:21:28] Matt: I've helped a lot of employees become American citizens, really great employees. Yeah, I understand why people do it the fake way, because doing it the legal way is expensive and very time-consuming, and a ton of bureaucracy.
But though, okay, so we're joking about this and stuff like that, but here's the sad thing. Besides children working in facilities, that 339 fake identifications were probably somebody's real [00:22:00] identification, and so identity theft is such a huge problem, and-
[00:22:05] Francine: I think he probably just made them up ...
[00:22:07] Matt: he could have made them up, but he also could have stole them.
[00:22:10] Francine: He could have.
[00:22:11] Matt: Yeah, if he had... Yeah. Yeah. How are you getting Social Security cards and birth certificates and stuff like that? But Social Security card, you need a Social Security number
[00:22:25] Francine: He was the regional manager for the janitorial service. So he was the one that was making the IDs for these people that were being hired
[00:22:33] Matt: Yeah, and managing, probably managing the whole entire region, and he was just like, "Hey, I have an idea.
We can hire people," and it's probably, for him, it's money. If he could hire people at the lowest wage possible and then charge, if they're charging these companies normal prices, his margins were probably a lot higher.
[00:22:56] Francine: So the companies aren't actually seeing the IDs. He's only making the [00:23:00] IDs they put in
[00:23:02] Matt: their folders.
Correct. So he... It's not like Purdue was in on this. It was they hired this janitorial service was creating the scam, or that regional manager of this janitorial service. But you still have to have a valid Social Security card in order to pay them. So yeah, you and I are going into a rabbit hole on this that, yeah, it's just interesting for our audience that are listening to this that work at facilities, it's like here's just something to look out for because you're hiring a service, and it may be the least expensive service, and maybe look at why it's the least expensive service.
Okay, if I'm getting four bids for something and this one bid is so much lower, why? And maybe it isn't. Maybe it was around the same price and they're just making a huge margin on it, but yeah.
[00:23:55] Francine: It's like everything else. You get what you pay for.
[00:23:57] Matt: Yeah. We talked about another [00:24:00] company in a podcast, I don't know, a year ago or something like that, or maybe a couple years ago, where workers for slaughterhouses, for a slaughterhouse cleaning firm that hired children repeatedly stolen identities to get jobs.
This was an article that we had talked about that came out in like 2023, and that was when they were sentencing them, and it was Packer Sanitation Services. So I don't know if these sanitization services have a conference that they go to to learn how to do these scams or what. Is there like a nefarious networking entity that teaches people, teaches subcontractors how to do this?
[00:24:41] Francine: Maybe there's a black market on one of those freelancing sites.
[00:24:47] Matt: Yeah, maybe. And but this PSSI, which is the acronym that I was saying for Packer Sanitization Services Inc., they had 17,000 workers [00:25:00] nationwide and sanitized more than 400 slaughterhouses and other facilities during overnight shifts. In this NBC News article from 2023, worker conditions are hazardous, and it's against the law for anybody under the age of 18 to work there.
Yeah, what we said. But the company reached an agreement with the Labor Department after investigation uncovered children as young as 13 working dangerous jobs in 13 locations in eight states, and they paid a fine of $1.5 million. I just don't see th- think that that's enough. What is the-
[00:25:33] Francine: I don't either
[00:25:34] Matt: And in the other one that we talked about, they paid the Department of Labor 650K?
[00:25:40] Francine: So put that in perspective of what they gained, how much they saved for, by hiring all of those minors. Relatively speaking, it's not enough to deter them from doing it again.
[00:25:53] Matt: Right. Yeah, and so in the NBC article, this guy, [00:26:00] Felipe Garcias, identity was stolen and used by PSSI workers in Kansas, and he's talking about how this is really bad 'cause he's a father of five.
He's 30 years old. He worked for an agricultural technology company in Holland, Michigan, where he was born and lived his whole life. He said that he's been dealing with the maddening fallout from identity theft for the past five years with workers employed at PSSI and eight out of 10 other companies, mostly in Nebraska.
So this must be, like, a huge thing within the cleaning and sanitization entities or organizations for these food manufacturing plants because it says that 8 out of 10 other companies, mostly in Nebraska, and we're hearing about one in Kansas, and this guy, the w- the article that we just talked about, John Bernard Mitchum, was working for the Fayette Janitorial Services Division in Virginia.
[00:27:00] So this is happening in multiple states Yeah. And it's interesting too, 'cause it happens to just normal people. They have their identity stolen, and then the burden of proof is on them. And it's like, well, we can see all of these transactions, all of these things that are happening. I did not buy this house over here.
This is not my house. What is going on? And then your credit is ruined, and then it takes forever to get that back, and it's like there has to be some way when your identity is stolen that it's an easy fix. And I, I agree with you. What's happening now with security on all these apps and with everything that we use has been ramped up because of this.
And I said to my controller, I emailed my controller the other day, like who manages our IT and all this stuff with our IT firm, and I got stuck in this thing where I could not get out of it, like a two-step authorization thing. [00:28:00] And listen, I've created software companies. I understand technology, and I could not get out of this doom loop of two-step authorization where I needed some code that I had no clue where this code is.
And I texted her like, "Please help me." And I really think we should get the death penalty for these people that hack computers and, and steal identities and stuff like that because it's making regular America, and probably first world country in general, productivity so much worse because we have to deal with all these people.
So it's not just the theft of the IDs that is a problem. That is a problem. People's lives are being ruined because of this. But it's also how much productivity is lost and how much money is spent by companies. And I... My company is not a huge company. 25 employees. Obviously, our data is very important, so we don't want that hacked, but the amount of money that my company spends to [00:29:00] make sure that we are not hacked is ridiculous in terms of the amount of money and revenue that we have.
And so just corporate America making sure that they're not being hacked, and then the amount of stuff that we have to do slows everybody down. It's insane. There needs to be better laws about this. So
[00:29:17] Francine: a couple things. First, we have customers, we had to put extra CAPTCHAs on our website because of the amount of fraudulent orders that we were getting, and fortunately we have very good security that we knew they were fraudulent.
And we have customers that are calling us and saying, "We can't get through the CAPTCHA. We can't get through this." So it's like you're in a catch-22. You either got let all of these fraudulent orders come through in hopes that- The security is good enough that it continues to catch them, and regular customers get frustrated because they can't get through the CAPTCHAs.
Or what's the solution to that? Because it's frustrating for them. They... [00:30:00] Because the CAPTCHAs are good. I had one the other day on a website that I couldn't get through. It's like, "What the hell is this? I can't get through this." And then probably, I'm gonna guess it was 10 years ago, Tim and I, um, had a card we had never used.
It was our bank account. We'd never used this card, and somebody wiped out our bank account. Wiped it out. Oh, my God. It was in... Another time, I had used a card in the airport, got something on my way home from Mexico. Used a card in the airport, and by the time I got home, I was getting notifications that this card was being used for...
attempted to be used for all kinds of purchases. Yeah, so I've had multiple situations where just people Get a real job
[00:30:51] Matt: Yeah. Then you have to redo everything with the card because we've had that where our editor is like, "Why did this thing bounce back?" And I'm like, "Oh, [00:31:00] because I had to change the card because of fraudulent stuff, and so now here's the new card."
It's just, yeah, it's such a pain. Well, okay. This is obviously something that is prevalent in sanitization companies across the US, so maybe you should look at your sanitization company and start asking different questions. And if you're looking to get a new sanitization company, start asking real questions because this is a scheme and a scam that's been going on for probably a decade or more, and it's not just this one company that we're talking about.
It's multiple companies. It's a real scam, and kids should not be in those plants. We are not against children working to learn skills the appropriate way, following all the state laws, county laws, municipal laws, federal laws, depending upon what your state does. Every one is different. But they should be following the appropriate laws.
I
[00:31:59] Francine: [00:32:00] mean, right? Your children work. My children worked.
[00:32:02] Matt: My boys do dangerous jobs. My son is here from Germany, and he's, he's a staff sergeant for M1 Abram tanks. People die every year just in training accidents in tanks or maintenance issues in, in stuff with tanks. But should he have done that when he was 14?
No. He started when he was 17, though. Well, no, basic training when he was 17. I don't think he messed around with tanks until he was 18. And another one of my sons is going into auto mechanic school to be, and ultimately become a shop teacher. So auto mechanics aren't a safe job either, but it's not like he was doing that when he was 14.
So yeah, totally, totally this is crazy. All right. Well, I think we beat this, we beat this down pretty good. I, I, yeah. Bye. On that note, don't eat [00:33:00] poop