The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader

In this episode of the Silvercore Podcast, Travis Bader speaks with long time friend Jason Budd about his time serving with the British Army, the selection process for the SAS, training and deployment. 

 

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What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

I'm Travis Bader
and this is The

Silvercore Podcast.

Join me as I discuss
matters related to

hunting, fishing,
and outdoor pursuits

with the people in
businesses that comprise

of the community.

If you're new to
Silvercore, be sure to

check out our website,
www.Silvercore.ca where

you can learn more
about courses, services,

and products we offer.

As well as how you can
join The Silvercore Club,

which includes 10 million
in North America wide

liability insurance to
ensure you are properly

covered during your
outdoor adventures.

With remembrance
day upon us, I felt

this was a fitting
episode to release.

I speak with a good
friend about how, as

a Canadian, he joined
the British army, his

experiences doing SAS
selection and more.

So I'm sitting down
with Jason Budd.

Jason, I've known
you longer than I

haven't known you.

You were over here in the
office and we're looking

to putting together some
navigation courses that

would be of value to the
Silvercore members and

to the general public and
I figured while you're

here, let's just jump on
the podcast here cause

you've got a really
interesting background.

You did a little
over 10 years in

the British army,

Actually just short
of 10 years Trav.

Just short of 10 years.

But, you know, 10 years.

It felt like longer.

Yeah.

I always said it took two
weeks to get in actually,

this is back in 99.

So they, it was like
a fast track program.

Yeah.

But then I said it
always took me 10

years to get out.

I love it.

Yeah.

Now, the fast
track program.

So you're a Canadian
citizen and born and

raised in Canada and
you ended up over

in the British army.

Yeah, I guess my
background prior to that

was like, we actually met
when we were in cadets.

That's right.

And it was, I think,
a Vernon camp.

That's right.

I remember that.

I was in Alpha company
and you're in the rifles

with Patrick Golden.

It was actually Alpha
company, then Bravo

company, and then over
into a rifle company.

I worked my way through.

I was like, man,
I have this brand

new rifle company,
I want to be there.

And so I worked my
way from each one

over the course of a
week until I got into

the rifle company.

Into the rifle.

And then Patrick and
I were best friends

back then and you
were friends with him

and that's how we.

That's right.

We connected.

Yeah.

That was like,
what year in 92?

Oh, yeah, bout that.

Going back a bit.

Yeah, 91, 92.

Yeah.

So I started in cadets
and then 17, I joined

the reserves and then
I kinda like on and off

became what we call, I
guess full-time reserves.

Right.

Without committing to
being in the full-time.

And then I think at 20,
I knew that I wanted to,

of all things join the
RCMP or the police, and

I wanted to do something
different than just join

the Canadian Forces.

And I looked
at where mostly

Canadian bases were.

Right.

Wainwright, Petawawa,
Shilo and I'd been

near enough of them
as a reservist.

And in Wainwright, the
British army always

trained there and
I always saw their

equipment, their
morale when they're

out and the training.

And I just thought, I
had to look at them,

I spoke to a bunch of
different regiments

and I made a leap of
faith in I think 98 or

99 and off I went and.

Wasn't there an
exercise where the

Brits came over?

Yeah, that's true.

So there was exercise
they called Pawnshop

West where the British
would come to Wainwright.

And at that time, I was
actually in the Seaforth

Highlanders of Canada
and we were attached

to the first battalion,
the Highlanders,

which was their
affiliated regiment.

And I went there with
a Canadian section

and it was attached to
them for four weeks.

Okay.

Five weeks I think.

They had a week of
adventure training

in Canmore with
them and that was

I think in August.

And then I made the
connections I had

with the Highlanders.

Right.

Recruiting officers
and everything else,

and basically left the
Seaforth and the reserves

and had a one-way ticket.

And you see if I win.

The story I heard from
other people was that

during an exercise,
the Brits came over,

joined exercise and
you said, this is for

me, jumped on the back
of the truck and that

was it, the way you go.

But I guess there's
a bit more to it.

There was a bit more
to it, for sure.

Now one of the processes
that actually made

it easier for me was
that I had a British

passport through my dad.

Ah.

So that actually
facilitated the process,

but they were actively
recruiting Commonwealth

in the late 90's.

Right.

Like they actually
stopped in the downsizing

2005, but there was a big
influx of Commonwealth

soldiers and maybe
not so many Canadians.

I met the odd Canadian
in the Royal Marines

or in some other, maybe
English regiments, but

I mean, there was a lot
of Jamaicans and Fijians

and South Africans, and
that tended to be more

the typical colonial.

Yeah.

Well, I remember around
that time I figured

I'd jump on a plane
and go over and enlist

with the Brits and I
saved up all my dollars

and had everything
squared away with the

recruiting officer.

And went on over, went
to the recruiting office,

had my appointment.

And when I got in there,
the recruiting officer

that I was dealing with
who says, yeah, you're a

part of the Commonwealth,
not a problem, come

on over, we'll get you
signed up right away.

He wasn't there,
he'd been transferred

and there was a new
person in there.

And what I didn't
realize at the time

and what you've told me
afterwards, essentially,

she was just pouring a
bunch of cold water on

me, but she says, well
yeah your Commonwealth,

but you can't do anything
security related unless

you're a British citizen.

For, I think it was five
years and I said, okay

yeah, not a problem.

What's security related?

She says, well why
don't I show you what

isn't security related?

And it was like
janitorial duties

and even some of
the janitorial

duties, they said
are security related.

And I said, well, hold
on a second, five years.

Oh, that's right,
and your minimum,

engagement's gotta
be four instead

of three and.

Anyways, after all of the
information she gave me

and I went through and I
process it and I thought,

geez five years, I'm
not going to be getting

a trade or anything
unless I'm in for what,

like 12 years cause
I can't start until.

Anyways, I ended
up using the money.

I saved up and went
touring around Europe

with it and but you
know, everything

happens for a reason.

I would imagine that had
I just persevered there

and just said, forget it,
I'm in, once I'm in, I

would be doing anything.

I think it's interesting,
had you just focused

on the infantry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You would have been, like
for myself, why I didn't

go there with the concept
of getting a trade, I was

going into the infantry.

Right.

And I wanted it to be in
the RCMP, and I wanted

to do three years,
something different.

And I said, I'm
going to go to the

infantry, best way to
get the experience.

I also had in the back
of my mind that I wanted

to go on SAS selection.

Right.

So what's interesting
about SAS selection,

is about that security
clearance that

you're talking about.

Yeah.

They regular get
people with the

same aspirations of
Commonwealth coming over.

They do their time in
the infantry and then

go on SAS selection.

We don't actually pass
the security clients.

I actually failed
that prior to

going on selection.

Really?

Yeah.

I didn't pass it, but
the SAS, they still

put you on course.

Okay.

And then once you
actually, if you

were to be successful
through their phase.

Right.

Now you're in the SAS,
they just turn around

and go back to whoever
deals with the security

clearance goin yeah,
he's a badge member

SAS and you just
get rubber stamped.

Ahh.

So none of the colonials
actually pass the

security clearance prior
to selection anyways.

I didn't know that.

Yeah.

Interesting.

So it doesn't matter like
the, you know, you're

in, you're in, so that's
a concept with that.

It's interesting
story about myself,

I was in contact
with the Highlanders

recruiting team.

So prior to that, I
wrote the Parachute

Regiment, I wrote the
Royal Marines, I wrote

the Royal Green Jackets.

Yeah.

They're all Irish.

And none of them were
actually actively

recruiting me.

Okay.

Same kind of roadblocks
with you, but being

attached to the
Highlanders and

the Seaforth, their
affiliated regiment,

their recruiting officer,
Cam McKai actually took

a real live interest
in recruiting me.

So that's what, where I
ended up with them right.

Got it.

They actually said to
me, send us your military

documents, we're going
to put you up, I think

it's Cameron Barracks
in Inverness, that's

their headquarters.

So we'll feed you, we'll
put you up and just show

up here, let us know
where your paperwork

is, we'll send it over.

We'll facilitate it.

You get fast tracked
through training and you

show up in the battalion.

So one way ticket.

I over-packed,
ended up three bags.

You want me to go to
Europe for three bags?

Right.

I didn't know.

I'm thinking I'm going
here one way ticket.

Yeah.

And I got the train
off to Inverness,

I get to Inverness.

I go to a bnb, check-in
I let captain McKai

know I was there.

He sent a driver, picked
me up, took me down to

the recruiting center.

And it came apparent
that they weren't going

to put me up in the
barracks, they weren't

going to feed me and they
lost all my paperwork.

Oh man.

So I had hard copies
when I came over.

So there's no fast track
in this, but the actual

paperwork and process,
it took me two weeks

to get process through
the actual recruiting

application process.

But I was running
out of money too.

I was staying at this
Airbnb and I guess it

wasn't Airbnb back then.

Not then.

It was just bnb.

It was just bnb yeah.

Just bnb.

So they sent me down to
the job centre and I'm

like, I go down to the
job centre, so I'm like

a place to get a job.

Cause now that's
what was actually

good about having
the British passport

is, I could work.

Right.

So got to the job
centre became very

apparent, it's their
doll welfare office and

a claims going to take
a minimum of six weeks.

Right.

And I'm like, well, I
can't wait six weeks,

I'm going to be starving.

Yeah, no kidding.

So I said, okay, I said,
let's do the process.

So meanwhile, I go back
to there to the bnb and

the owners are like,
well, if you're going to

be here more permanent
we have a friend that's

living in France and
he has his flat that

we can rent out weekly.

Yeah.

So I think it was a
couple of hundred pounds

a week that, maybe a
hundred pounds a week I

was paying for this flat.

So I moved into that.

Yeah.

But that night I
went down, I thought

I'd go check out
the local nightlife.

And I go into this
club called mr.

G's nightclub.

And I see a sign that
says help wanted, so I go

to the bouncer and I say,
hey, says help wanted.

And he's like, brings
out, goes and gets

the manager and the
managers like, can

you come back for
interview in the morning?

So I'm like, sure.

So I come back, had
this interview and

I'm thinking, I'm just
going to be a bottle

collector and he's
like, great, you're

going to be bartender.

You don't need like
a bar license right.

Right, no
serving it right.

I'm going to
be a bartender?

He's like, yep,
you start tonight.

I'm like, okay,
I've never poured

a pint in my life.

And it was a Saturday
night, I leave mr.

G's and it was mobbed.

And it's not like in
Canada where everybody

lines up nicely, it's
like everybody, five deep

at the bar yelling their
drink orders at you.

And it was like, you
know, Baptism under fire.

And I really enjoyed it
and I actually took it

a couple extra months
off to just enjoy being

a civilian and being
a bartender at mr.

G's nightclub
in Inverness.

Very cool.

Yeah.

Very cool.

But bartenders
there, they don't

make a lot of tips.

Okay.

And you're making
a minimum wage.

So I picked up extra
shifts in the morning.

I'd come back and help
the cleaners clean.

Okay.

But even between cleaning
and bartending I was

only making enough
to feed myself twice

a day, basically.

And then my life was
just basically, so I

would, let's just start
from like, say the

nightclub shuts down
at 2:00 AM or 1:30.

2:30 your back home.

I would sleep to
probably three till

like eight o'clock.

I did that, you know,
maybe four or five

hours, if that get up,
I'd go help the cleaners

for three, four hours.

Come back have
an afternoon nap.

I would work out, run,
weights, cause I'm

still trying to maintain
fitness for getting

into British army.

And then I
would go and mr.

G's nightclub had a
pub attached to it

called the nials.

Okay.

So I'd pick up early
shifts there at six,

helping in the nial.

And then I'd rotate up to
nightclubs around 9:30,

10 when it got busy.

And I did that for
maybe two months, to

October, and I realized
it's fun, but I didn't

come here to do that.

And then what was
happening as well was

there was a change
in the system where

initially my enlistment
would be three years.

And if I didn't enlist
before this date in like

early November, I would
be bumped to a four

year minimum engagement.

That's what the woman
was telling me that

recruiting office.

Yeah.

So I at the time
didn't care.

It was like maybe nine
o'clock in the morning,

like captain McKai
sent one of the high, a

couple of the recruiting
Highlanders over in the

land rover, knocked on
my door and I'm like, get

your ass to come to it.

And he's like get in the
land rover and then I

went, you know, I had a
chat with captain McKai

and he's like, yeah,
you gotta get this goin.

So I did.

One thing that they
did do, was they

send you down for a
fitness assessment.

Right.

For a three day, I
don't even remember,

I think it was like
the army foundation

fitness assessment.

It was like a two day
program to see where you

were and I scored really
well on it, to the point

where I came back to my
recruiting Sergeant and

said, how well did I do?

He said, exceptionally.

I said, good
enough to go to the

parachute regiment?

Because I thought you
I'm just going to go

the parachute regiment.

Yeah.

And unlike maybe in
American, Canadian

Forces, that's you're,
you joined straight

from the street and
you go to the parachute

regiment, you do their.

Right.

Their training, B
company and so on.

The recruiting Sergeant
is dealing with is

that, hold on a minute,
makes a phone call.

And then down comes
this major from

the Highlanders,
their training

NCR officer right.

He sits me down and
he's like, you know Mr.

Budd like, you're right,
you could go to the

parachute regiment.

But if you come to the
Highlanders, you're

definitely going to
get on junior branch

and your section
manager course earlier.

And he goes, if
we're going to do

this for you all,
let's do it for real.

He goes, join the
Highlanders, do your

time, get on section
manager course, and then

go on SAS selection.

Right.

And I'm like,
yeah, you're right.

And then, so he retained
me because I'm like,

ah, let's just go to
the parachute regiment.

He knew exactly
what to say.

Yeah he knew what
to, so that was that.

Yeah so, I think I
started when we did it,

then it was they called
the army foundation

college and then off
it was an Edinburgh.

Right.

So the Scottish division
and dark, gloom, ,rainy

place called Pennycook.

Okay.

And up in Glencorse
in Edinburgh,in

the pentlands, if
anybody's been there.

Very hilly, very wet.

And I think that night
I go into the, they

call it the cook house.

Okay.

And there's a distinct
song I always remember

playing and it's
Coldplay, why does

it always rain on me.

And I'm just like,
it's depressed right.

Yeah.

And the food, my
goodness, the food.

Where do I even
start with it?

I had to get my friends
to send me vitamins.

It was that bad?

To supplement the food.

Yeah.

It was like, we
definitely can get

malnourished here.

Wow.

Well, they got a
nickname for the

British army, right?

Well, the British
don't actually know

that name, but we're
not unaware of it.

But the Canadians
always called them

the shit eaters.

That's right.

And, but the Brits are
completely clueless.

That's there, but yeah.

So, you know, that
was, I think back

then it was maybe a 12
week basic training.

Yeah.

At the end of it, because
I was a section commander

in the Seaforth, at the
end of it, my report

indicated that I didn't,
they said possibility

of skipping the next
trade would it be my

infantry training and
just go to battalion.

Okay.

So the next phase
is we all traveled

down to Catterick
the infantry training

center Catterick.

So Catterick, they
call it ITC Catterick,

infantry training centre.

Catterick, it's
the biggest

Garrison in Europe.

It's also has the
most CCTV cameras

in your per capital.

Okay.

I had a meeting with
the company commander of

our training company I
was in and he said, oh

the reports from your
basic training said, just

fast-track Highlander
Budd to the battalion.

What do you think?

Nah, you know sir,
I'm open for anything,

whatever you think.

And I can't remember
how it went down, but we

may have flipped for it.

Really?

I can't remember.

But somehow we ended
up on training.

I didn't go to battalion.

Okay.

So we were there
for the first, the

infantry training, I
believe is 14 weeks.

Right.

That's a long haul.

Yeah.

Two of my best friends
that I'm still in

contact with is Marty
Gray and Dean Nygen.

Marty was from the
black watch and Dean

was from RGBW regiment.

Taking a step back,
my mom was, we found

out was really sick
and we actually

brought Marty home to
Canada on vacation.

I call it vacation,
on leave between

the basic training
and ITC Catterick.

Yeah.

Of all things Marty
loved hockey, played,

I guess it would be
semipro in Dundee.

Wow.

Yeah.

So he loved hockey.

He loved our food
here, obviously right?

Well, Marty actually,
like I said, he was a

big lad from Dundee.

So being a smart,
colonial that I was,

you befriend the
biggest, toughest

guy on the course.

Right.

And that was Marty.

Right, there you go.

The thug from Dundee.

There you go.

He's actually the RSM
of the black watch or

three Scott's right now.

Wow.

So he's done really
well for himself yeah.

Yeah, Dundee, now
I know where it is.

There's a Limerick
about Dundee, but I

won't repeat it here.

Yeah actually
from forthar.

Okay.

But Dundee was kind
of like, they had a

saying they called it
bide away from Dundee,

by away fae Dundee.

Yeah.

Scottish,
jockaknees right?

I just know jockaknees
is its own language.

It's basically Scottish
slang mixed with British

army slang and they've
created their own

language the jocks have
in the British army and

the jocks of the Scots.

Jockaknees.

Called Jockaknees right.

All right.

It was really hard.

Like when I first
got there, like

during section
attacks and training,

I couldn't really
understand anything

being told to me.

Like just point me
towards the direction

I'm going, because the
jocks'd get fired up

and then the different
dialects you got the

Glaswegians you got
the Invernesians,

you got Aberdonians.

You've got, you know,
by the time I came

back three, three and
a half years later,

as an instructor, I
could totally hear

pretty much an entire
British army, even the

English regiments and
know what regiment they

were going to or what
town they were from.

Really?

Just by their
accents, yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

Like for example,
the rural Highland,

future leaders
recruited from Glasgow.

Right.

So you just knew there,
the Weegee's right.

So yeah.

So long story short, long
weekend, prior to that,

I knew my mom was really
sick, I remember waking

up when I was home on
leave and her crying.

I remember hearing
her crying in

the living room.

Right.

And I came out and I
just hugged her, she

was crying and her
whole body was in pain.

Yeah.

I'm not going back,
I'm going to go

AWOL, hang with you.

And my mom, like not
a chance, no son of

mine's going AWOL,
you're getting back on

the airplane and that
was actually the last

time I actually saw her.

Right.

Just prior to the long
weekend, my dad called

me, he goes, you know,
Son, we've found some

bad news and your mom has
cancer and it's terminal.

And she has a year
live, so that hit me

pretty, pretty hard,
really devastated.

Totally.

I was a mama's boy,
what can I say?

Sure.

Right.

Yeah.

And I go up on the long
weekend and then on the

Saturday my dad calls
me, he's like, okay, your

mum has 24 hours to live.

So that, I'm like
what is going on here?

So I told Marty and
his partner, I'm

like, I got to go.

I get on the train,
Catterick has like,

or ITC Catterick had,
it was like, at the

time, five training
battalions in training.

So I ended up calling,
not my Sergeant major,

ended up being the
guard Sergeant major.

Really?

But I just called
them, I just didn't

have the right number.

And I called them and
I said, I'm on my way

down, sir this is me,
you know, I know you're

not my Sergeant major.

He got all my info,
he passed it on to my

company Sergeant major.

They had a driver waiting
for me in Darlington's

closest town.

Land Rover, straight
in, pack my bags, jet

down to a Heathrow
and I was on the next

airplane back to Canada.

And then I got back
shortly and my mom

was already in a
morphine coma and

then, didn't really
get to say my goodbyes

and then she passed.

Right.

So I ended up staying
in Canada for another

four or five weeks,
and then I went back.

So by the time I went
back, my training

company was going on
their final exercise.

Right.

So the training staff
decided, even though

I'd only done four
weeks of training,

I could go on final
exercise with my batoon.

That was good.

It was.

Yeah.

So I only had to do
the funnel X and then I

was off the battalion.

When I first met the
training staff, they

brought me in, because
I know, you know, Jay,

he was section commander
in the NKR, they sat

me down and they said,
rate the platoon 1-30.

Okay.

So you never put
yourself top.

So there was a big Fijian
that was from, Gus, he

was an ex cop from Fiji,
I put him number one.

Okay.

Right.

So I put him one, me
two and that's how they

made the section right?

Really?

Yeah.

They kind of,
orbated everybody.

So everybody had
an equal share in

this jock platoon.

And, but you never,
and I remember like

halfway through the Black
watch, the corporal's

like, Budd you lied!

Well, you never
put yourself at

the top do you.

Your corporal right.

Yeah so, I did the
final X and then

rolled into battalion.

In the British, there's
a few things that you

did, which I thought
were pretty neat.

So one of them
was you did some

skiing over there.

And whenever I think
about that, I just

conjure up these ideas
of James Bond or Jason

board or skiing for
the British army.

But you travel around
to a few different

countries to represent,
I guess, England

in a few different
events, didn't you?

Well, you know, being
in a Scott's regiment,

it's not England.

It's such a
travesty, right.

They're very, I mean,
the jocks don't want,

they're freedom crazy.

No, but yeah, so I
grew up kind of skiing

in Canada and then as
a teenager, I bought

my own snowboard and
saved up for it and

I was a snowboarder.

So my first tour
was to Kosovo.

Okay.

2000, 2001.

And then I came back
and I did my section

commanders course.

Right.

14 weeks in Bracken.

Yeah.

And then that winter I'm
back with my battalion

in Edinburgh and I
saw that there was

the army championships
for snowboarding.

Okay.

So I thought I'll
have some of that.

Yeah, no kidding.

Set up a meeting with the
QMSI, the quartermaster

senior instructor, kind
of our physical training

instructor head guy.

Yeah.

And I said, you know,
sir, I just saw this

one, you know, like
this competition

for the snowboard.

And he's like,
do you ski?

Said I can ski, I used to
ski, I'm a snowboarder.

Right.

Sir.

And he's like, well,
the battalion is going

to be sending a four
man team to France to

race downhill, six to
eight weeks, depending

how well you do.

Right.

You know, minimum four
weeks, but it could

be up to two months.

Yeah.

How does that sound?

Or you could do one day
snowboard competition

and Aviemore Scotland.

So I've only skied
once in Aviemore,

imagine Travis like, I
don't think there's a

chair enough, I think
you get towed up.

But it's like ski.

Yeah.

Take your skis off.

Walk across the Heather.

Ski some more walk
across some more Heather.

Yeah.

So I'm like, okay.

Yeah I think I'm going
to ski again, sir.

And then, yeah, so
you just send this

four men team and we
spent a good portion

in Val-d'Isère France
and they actually race.

So you start racing,
I think we started

in the infantries
and then you can move

through the armies.

It's proper racing, it's
super G, it's downhill,

it's slalom, GS.

So I had to get like
back on it pretty quick.

I remember in one of the
areas is, Sersha Valley.

Okay.

And we actually
downhill skied.

Like they close
it off, there's

timers, everything.

You're in your catsuit
and there's a run

there, it's an Olympic
run and the final,

you do this hard right
hand turn, and then

it's a one-mile tuck.

Yeah.

And I got clocked
coming through there at

about 78 miles an hour.

Wooo.

Yeah.

Like skis are
like 220 long.

No kidding.

It gets, it's proper
racing and competitive.

But yeah, so that was,
I did that for, I think

three seasons and then up
to probably I think 2005.

And by that time between
Iraq and Afghan going

on, the adventure
training kind of dried

up for me and it was
like deployment so.

Right.

But yeah, I did
three seasons of

racing downhill.

That sounds like, yeah,
definitely sign me up.

That's the that's a part
of the British army.

Yeah.

I mean, that's one
thing with the British,

they always I'm big
on adventure training.

I mean, the very first
time I ever rock climbed

in Canada was with the
British army in Canmore.

Really?

Yeah.

That's where I got
my taste for it.

Yeah.

Now you gotta do a little
bit of rock climbing.

Well, before we talk
about that, I did

you want to talk
about selection?

Yeah.

So I thought I'd give
a selection a go.

What's interesting in
the UK is, if you don't

come from an infantry
background, they make you

do an all arms infantry
skills course, it's a

four week long course.

So, you know, in the
2000's with the SAS

being as busy as you
were, they didn't

really have time to
facilitate this training.

And this training
is pretty important

because they want to
give the non-infantry,

the core guys, a
fair kick at the can.

Right.

Right.

Cause the second
phase is you go to

the jungle, right?

Hmm.

So what they do is
they bring one of the

senior NCO's from the
training division,

usually the training
wing Sergeant major.

And what they do at this
time, I was teaching, I

went back to Catterick as
an instructor, so I was

working at ITC Catterick
there as the section

commander and instructor.

And then they had
an elemen called Som

Company and they had a
patoon there, the staff

that was responsible
for facilitating that

alorm's infantry skills
course, they call it.

Okay.

So you basically show
up a Hereford first

and they run a kind
of like a one-week

skills to make sure
you're at the skills.

They want you to
teach the staff.

Right.

And then you move
to Sunny Bridge.

Sunny Bridge is the
battle camp that

you're based out of.

Okay.

So it's basically like
a rifle platoon staff,

you have the platoon
Sergeant doing the

logistics, you have the
platoon commander and

three section commanders.

Okay.

And the three section
commanders, then get

assigned a section, for
the, you know, they're

the core guys made up.

Right.

And then the training
wing Sergeant

major oversees it.

Okay.

So we're kind of, you're
attached to the SAS in

this training element.

So it's kind of
cool because then.

Yeah.

You learn their
conventional drills.

Right.

You're not doing any
of that, you know,

black ops or anything.

It's just conventional, a
lot of it's jungle drills

we're teaching them.

Okay.

For.

For berni.

Yeah, for berni,
yhe jungle phase.

So it's really great.

And then the Sergeant
major him and I got

on really well, he's
an interesting cat.

Like he actually
started in the, you

know, he's English,
but he started in the

French foreign Legion.

And then he worked his
way, all the way up to

whatever their equivalent
to their special forces.

Left and then he joined
the British army and then

worked his way up and.

Wow.

Then was training
Sergeant major in SAS.

So, you know, can you
know, you meet the SAS

guys, a lot of friends of
SAS guys, and they have

this look, but this guy
had a different look.

Yeah.

But he was
great, great guy.

You know, he would
tell me he's like

Jase, stay healthy,
you're through right.

Because there, you do
the four weeks in the

hills, that's where
you select yourself,

the aptitude phase.

And then you go to
the jungle and the

jungle is where they
select you right.

Right.

That's, so you could
actually complete the

jungle phase and they
may turn around and

say, you know, sorry,
you're not a good fit.

Right.

Right.

But you know, I had
proved to John that I

was a good fit I guess.

And he's like, Jay, stay
healthy and your in.

And that's the biggest
thing is staying healthy.

Right.

And I actually, I did
well on the hills.

Can we talk about what
the hills are like, when

you say the hills is?

The hills is, yeah.

So the hills is,
is the first phase,

it's like four weeks.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The first week is
just kind of an

organized thrashing.

Okay.

You know, you do their
CFT, their combat

fitness test, it's the
eight miler and you

have under two hours
to do it in, but it's

a pretty cheeky one.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, it was
just for this first

week they're just
kind of, they call it

Gilberts Gut Buster.

So it's like a 12
mile run around this

lake with hills.

Okay.

And there'll be certain
phases where they'll stop

and it'll be like pushups
or a fireman carrying

somebody up the hill.

You do this for 12K.

Yep.

Or 12 miles, I can't
even remember anymore.

Kilometres just because
the Brits are like

the military uses
the kilometres, but

then we use miles.

Really?

Yeah, like if your,
you know, your maps and

everything is kilometres.

Right.

But then if you're doing
a fitness assessment.

It's in miles?

Two mile or three mile
or five mile, I can't

remember anymore.

That's funny.

Might've been 12 miles.

It's called Gilbert's
Gut Buster right?

Yeah.

So I remember one of
my friends from the

Highlanders, he was
a big boy, kinda like

you Travis right.

So I remember being
told by friends who've

done this before is
that, always run with

somebody your size.

Okay.

Right.

So I was aiming for
that and in the groups

kind of spread off,
like there's like on

selection, like four to
500 people show up and

it just gets weeded out
day by day by day right.

Right.

So we set off, this
is the day they do

Gilberts Gut Buster,
and I'm running along

and I'm thinking I'm
with the small guy we're

in the middle group.

And then we come to this
hill and the next thing

you know, grabbed me and
he's fireman carrying

me and I'm like, Oh
my goodness cause now

we're going to switch.

Now you gotta
fireman carry him.

And I got him
like, not that far.

And then my knees, like
I actually, I think I

hurt my knee there in
that point and then

I had a knee injury
from that point on.

Right.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Yeah, but I was
like, I can't do this

and I dropped him.

He'd get on the, actually
picked me up and threw me

on his shoulder and then
he went the whole way.

Wow.

Well, yeah, besides that
with his injury, I made

it all the way up the
test week and in the test

weeks, just a series of
marches in areas like

Elan Valley is probably
the worst place on earth.

We call them.

In what way?

Well, wet.

Yeah.

Everything's wet.

Yeah.

But they call
them baby heads.

Okay.

So imagine a soccer
ball that's growing

in a grass ball.

Right okay.

Right.

I've heard
there's ?? Grass.

Endless fields of this.

Yeah, yeah.

They're the
ankle breakers.

Baby heads.

Baby heads you call them.

And now those seem like
you're navigating like 20

K across this area right.

In Elan Valley, it's
called right and

everything's wet.

So every step,
boots are soaked.

Yeah, yeah.

But if you're not
sure on your step,

you're stepping on the
soccer balls of grass.

And you're going to
twist an ankle or.

You've got 55
pounds, you've got

the old SLR riffle.

Yeah.

And it's horrible right.

So that's Elan Valley.

I used to like ending
the marches in the

Brecon beacons.

Okay.

Because there wasn't
a lot of baby heads.

I love the
Brecon beacons.

There's a few other
areas that they kind

of go to, but it's
basically, they just set

you off in the trucks.

You're doing 4k an hour
and on test week, it's

like, you might be, they
start building up the

weight and the kilometre
distance every day.

And it's like a
seven day assessment.

This is at the third,
the fourth week now.

Yeah.

And it's just like,
you wanna make

four K an hour.

You might, there'll be
a checkpoint you gotta

navigate to, and there'll
be a couple of yes,

directing stuff there.

Yeah.

You can't have any
map, marks on your

map and you'll just
show up, get in line.

Cause there'll be
other guys there too.

And you say, staff,
this is where I am.

Okay, you're going
to this grid, they

give you the grid.

Show me where it is,
okay, way you go and

they take your name.

Right.

They could also, check
your weight of your pack.

Right, okay.

And.

Find it light you're out.

If it's light?

No, they give
you a brick.

Oh okay.

Or a rock and you've
got to carry it.

And the problem with
that, there's a few

guys where they're
kind of underweight

and if you got this.

Yeah.

Physically, you
don't really recover,

if that happened.

But yeah, those end,
they also do kit check.

So they'll give you a kit
list and a lot of people,

not a lot of people,
there'll be a few people

that didn't abide by it.

Yeah.

You'd want to call
some stuff out

for weight, right?

Well, the weights
the weight.

So for example, if they
say this is 55 pounds,

then you pack 55 pounds,
but they have a kit list.

So it could be like
a panel marker for

helicopter or airplane
marking, mess tins, water

bottle, spoon, whatever.

Right.

And they'll ask us,
show us your tarp,

show us your first
aid kit, show em that.

But if you haven't
got that, then

you're flagged.

Right.

Cause they go, well,
you can't abide

by detail right.

Right.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

So that's not good.

So that could happen
at the checkpoints.

Yeah and then you
just basically, and

so you know, the first
day it might be 25

kilometres you're going.

Then the next day on test
week or go on 30 and then

so on and so on, so on.

And then the final
day, they kind of bring

it back and you do, I
think it's 25k we did.

Got back to sunny bridge,
you know, six o'clock,

had dinner, packed up
and then that night you

start the 65 kilometre
long drag they call it.

Right.

And I think the
weights were like 65

pounds plus rifle.

It's the heaviest we had.

That's significant.

Yeah, couple hours
sleep and I remember

sitting down in, it
was on this side of

Brecon where we were
in and it was storming.

So it was raining,
snowing, like not snow,

it was snowing up in
the beacons, but I

remember looking out
the truck and looking

at all the seagulls
hanging out here.

So if the seagulls
avoided sea in the

middle of Whales,
there's a storm on right.

Right.

So, and I remember
the S were debating

sending us up or not.

Really?

And then the
course facilitator.

Okay.

And he was like,
yep, they go.

So off, we went
and soaking wet.

And as you started
climbing up, it's

going to sleet and
then it's full on snow.

So we're soaking
wet, heading up

into the hills.

And I remember being
on top of the fan petty

fan and not being able
to find my way down.

Okay.

I kept falling off the
sides, it's stormin,

I'm hanging on and
I'm like, and I'd been

up there probably so
many times training.

Right.

I couldn't find my,
finally found my way

off the fan and down.

And it started to get
at first light and I was

so cold and checked in
and then they get the

new grid and I look in
the back of the four

toner and it's full of
guys that have pulled

themselves off right.

Right.

Off I go.

How's that feel
when you see that?

You know, I had a rough
night up there though.

Like I ended up not
knowing it, but I

cracked my ankle.

Right.

I had some bad falls
going up there, but I

was just nursing it.

I'm like, let's
just keep going.

And then as I went to my
next checkpoint, I came

across and I think he
was an RAF regiment guy.

And the RAF regiment
guy who was hypothermic.

We're told that you
don't abandon people.

Right.

Right.

So I get there and
they're just huddling

and I'm like, let's
get your half shelter

or your ponchos and
let's make shelter.

Get this guy wrapped
up in a sleeping bag.

And then we have
our emergency

beacons, like our GPS
beacons we activate.

Right.

They track us interesting
for me, mine wasn't

working that night.

So when I came into
the checkpoint, the

course facilitator,
like Budd, your

Beacon's not working.

They had no clue.

So if I fell off the
fan, they wouldn't have

known they'd find me
down in the bottom right.

So they gave me a new
one, so we activated

it and then I'm like,
okay guys, I'm off, I'm

going to keep going.

And I remember the
look of one of the

guys that was there
like, don't leave me.

And I'm like, okay,
I'm going to stay

and I'm like, okay.

You know, and it took
the directing staff

with the Land Rover,
they got up to us

maybe an hour later.

This time you're
cold, starting to get

hypothermic yourself,
body shutting down

and the DS go okay,
you're all done.

And I'm like, no,
I'm going staff.

So they radioed down to
the course facilitator,

came back up and
they're like, great,

but if you do this, you
do this on your own.

We're signing off,
like this is your

risk, you accept it.

Yeah.

Like I got it.

Off I go and I had
about, I went, no,

I went another 15k.

So I'm probably about
40, 35, 40K into my 65

and I was just like,
that, sitting for that

hour and a half was just.

Just zapped ya.

Yeah just zapped.

Yeah.

And then I got there and
I said, I can't go on.

So I had a yeah, it
took me a few months to

recover from that cracked
ankle and everything,

because my goal was
just, now I knew I was

really injured ,or just
complete the march.

Right.

And then hopefully they
would have kept me and

get better and then go on
to the jungle phase so.

Well, they do selection
twice a year, right?

Correct yeah.

Okay.

So summer selection,
winter selection?

Yeah.

And you took it upon
yourself to say, you

know what, I'd rather do
this in the winter time?

You know, So you're right
Trav, it just kind of

worked on a timeline.

Okay.

And it was just like,
I was coming to the

end of my two years
as an instructor.

And I'm like, this
is the time to go.

And leading up to
that though, like

I had trained for
a year for it.

Right.

Right.

So I, as an instructor
had, was alotted a lot

of time to train and then
also being for six months

attached, as one, as the
training team for this

all arms, I was really
like, I was peeking

at where I should be.

Right.

Skills, fitness, and
everything had just,

this was the time.

Yeah.

I come back.

Heal up, finished my
time at ITC Catterick

and then I go to my
battalion and it was

a time we were doing
work up to go to Iraq.

Right.

So we had a big exercise
in Suffield and then,

off we went to Iraq.

Right.

And then I was up in
LMR with Bravo company

and the Highlanders.

Right.

About halfway through
the tour I ended up

doing a pre-chorus
for my senior brecon.

Right.

Between
sergeant's course.

They were all Highland
fusion leaders who were

based in Cyprus, ran
it because they weren't

employed there in Cyprus.

So a Highlander
boat, maybe eight or

10 of us left Iraq
to go to Cypress to

do our pre-course.

Right.

So for us to go on
these career courses,

it's a competition, so
there might be three

section managers to
goin to Brecon and

there might be three
spots for senior Brecon.

So it's a competition,
the whole way is

very competitive.

Right.

Did my two weeks
pre-course to get

selected and then
ended up going down

to Whales again.

Right.

I got to know
Brecken really well.

Yeah.

2007, I decided to give
selection another go.

Right.

The problem this
time, I didn't have

enough time to train.

Okay.

Because you know, being
a platoon Sergeant in

the battalion, it didn't
help either like I

was a single Sergeant.

So being a single
Sergeant, you got a lot

of tasks and deployments.

Okay.

I remember being told,
Hey Sergeant Budd,

we're doing you a
favour, we're sending

you back to Canada.

I'm like great recruiting
NCO in Vancouver?

They're like no range
safety in Suffield.

Just you know, rent
a car, go home on the

weekend and I'm like,
you know, it's like a 16

hour drive from Sufield.

Like it's quicker
to fly from Heathrow

to Vancouver.

No kidding.

So I did, I think we did
three months of range

safety with the green
jackets battle group.

Okay.

They're going to rock
so that doesn't help

getting range safety
for my training.

So that was
like, September

October, November.

Yeah.

So I basically had
December to train and

then I went back on
selection January.

Cause I'm just like, I'm
doing it, I got to do it.

It was kind of a
double edge because I

knew what to expect.

Right.

So I'm like, I don't
need to train as much.

I say, you know what
to expect, like on

Gilbert Gut Buster, I
never left this Gerka.

Right.

This Gerka and I were
partners, like I was like

a bungee cord on him.

So when it came to
fireman carry, he

was just like this
little, little guy.

That helps.

A little Sherpa right.

You need to carry
me, no problem.

So if people don't know
who their Gerka's are,

they're our elements of
our British army that

we recruit from Nepal.

And that tradition,
the gerka tradition is

maintained in the British
army and the Indian army.

So yeah, I mean the
average height's

probably 5'1", 5'2".

Perfect.

It was perfect yeah.

That element's
good to know.

Yeah, yeah.

But I mean, the rest
of it didn't do me

many favours and I,
because I didn't have

the time to train.

Right.

For the first two weeks,
I was really struggling

making the times.

Yeah, I didn't have
the same mindset

this time around.

On week two at the end
of it, they call it

that the fan dance.

Okay.

You go up penny fan down
their own road back.

Yeah.

For us, it's
pass or fail.

And then we go on to
the third week and

there was a new element
started in the British

army called the special
reconnaissance regiment.

Okay.

And it was fitting
under the SF tier.

And they're a part
of the hills for

the first two weeks.

Okay.

And their pass or
fail's fan dance.

And then they go to
their infantry camp and

there was a guy I was
on the back of the four

toner are driving out
to the story arms, just

start our fan dance.

And he was on my
first selection.

And then he was on
selection for special

reconnaissance regiment.

And I'm sitting
there, Oh man, I made

the wrong mistake.

But you know, all my
SAS buddies that I did

have were like, yeah
don't, don't, don't

join this special
reconnaissance regiment.

And I'm like, yeah,
SAS or nothing right.

Right, right, right.

So I'm sitting
there going, man,

I made a mistake.

But it is what it is.

Everything happens
for a reason.

It does I mean, I got
to test week again, but

on day three and four,
my achilles swelled up

like a golf ball and then
I got medically RTU'd

again and that was that.

Right.

So, yeah, like
that was January.

So another glutton
for punishment, I

went back and did
a summer selection.

Okay.

Like he came off
on the hill, was

my first one, too.

He had a groin injury
and he didn't make it,

second one blew the
summer away no problem.

Yeah.

And he just
cruised through it.

Really?

And even said summer,
summer, summer.

But it was that timeline.

I'm like, ah, I
gotta do it now.

Oh man.

Right.

Because you know, back
in my head Trav, I was

actually getting ready to
leave the army I thought.

Right.

I was just ticking boxes.

Right.

Like seniors, I didn't
plan to do seniors.

I planned like
junior Breckon,

SAS, back to Canada.

Yeah.

It didn't work out.

And then seniors came up
and then, surprisingly

enough, that was January.

You know, that took
up to February, I'm

getting ready to, I
was kind of in limbo.

I couldn't really
decide if our is

staying or going.

Cause I actually did
really well, all in

all, I think I made
platoon Sergeant in

six and a half years.

That's pretty fast.

It's pretty fast.

Even like in the
British army, that's

like eight to 12 years.

It kinda, I mean,
I came in with a

lot of experience.

And in that time you
know, I went to Kosovo,

I went to Bosnia.

I did, I only did a
couple of weeks in

Northern Ireland.

I didn't go there long
enough to get my medal.

Well, that was one
of the reasons why I

did join my Northern
Ireland medal, but

yeah, it didn't happen.

But you know, it did
junior Brecon and

then for us, like the
part of your career

development, you go
to the depot to teach.

And I had that exposure
in Catterick and I

actually did really
well in Catterick.

And you get graded
and the highest grade

you get is like, OI1.

Okay.

That's a highest, so
that's like, they call

it outstanding one.

Okay.

So that actually got
me on my commanding

officer's radar.

He didn't realize that
I was just another

section manager.

So that gets flagged OI1.

I was a senior
section manager when

we deployed to Iraq.

Right.

We were an armored
infantry battalion

at this point because
we were stationed

in Germany now.

Yeah.

And we were in warriors
and I hated warriors.

Okay.

Because everything
I've done is rifle

company prior to
this or dismount.

Right.

Or light roll.

Okay.

So I facilitated,
never being trained

on the warrior,
commander, commander.

So that always defaulted
me to dismount.

Okay.

That always made me,
like I had some other

roles, like I would be
the, like the smaller

arms coordinator
for the company.

So if there's any
ranges need to be run.

Right.

Like we went three
qualifying all the

drivers who commanders
and gunners with

their handgun.

Right.

We were using
Browning's at the time.

So I coordinated all
that training, so I was

kind of like the small
arms subject matter

expert for the company.

Right.

So, and then for the
platoon like I was the

senior section manager,
so I got another,

OI1 assessment done,
what do they call it?

Your confidential
report for the year.

Okay.

So that gets you kind
of flagged really

well at seniors.

And what happens is, is
that you sit the board.

So how I can explain
the board when you get

promoted, there's a
bunch of like Brigadier

generals sit in around
a castle and sit around,

they actually grade you.

Okay.

So normally you need
four years in rank and

that career course.

So, cause I had 2 OI1's
and I'd only been a

section commander for
three years, but those

2 OI1's allowed me to
st the board early.

Ah, okay.

So that's how I got
fast tracked through

the system because I
sat the board early

and got promoted to
platoon Sergeant.

So, and then went off
to selection, injured

again on the hills.

And then the RSM and I
are trying to figure out

where's my career path.

Cause I'm like, well,
maybe I'm done, I've

ticked all my boxes.

I'm done everything.

And then he's like,
well I need a training

NCO to go to Africa,
I can't even remember.

And then at this
time I thought

about Pathfinders.

Okay.

In 16 aerosol was now
kind of like it's growin

to a larger, it used
to be like a platoon

and it's actually now
tri-service and they

actually have their
tri-service selection.

Okay.

Similar to the hills,
but they do 3K an hour

versus four, and then
they do their own camp.

Okay.

And then I believe
that company commander

was from two squats.

Well, Scott, so I knew
him from Catterick.

So it was open
tri-service.

And then one of the
options as well, I

had been assigned to
the sniper platoon.

Right.

In the Highlanders
because we had a

sniper platoon.

And prior to that,
I was always trained

to sharpshooter.

What the RSMs like,
okay well, here's kind

of the career path that
I'm thinking is like, go

to Africa for a month,
I need you to go here.

Then you go down and do
your sniper platoon or

your sniper course so
that you can take over

as a platoon Sergeant
for the snipers.

Because the sniper
platoon in the

Highlanders, it's the
only platoon where

the platoon commander
is a color Sergeant.

Okay.

So that's a ranked
staff Sergeant where

the rest of the platoon
is you always have

a platoon commander.

Right.

So the platoon
Sergeant would be

the platoon Sergeant.

And then the, a
platoon commander

is a color Sergeant.

So I would have taken
over as platoon Sergeant.

And then he goes, I
know you're going to

train on the weekends
and then you roll into

your PF selection.

I'm like, great,
good plan.

I leave and on the
way out the battalion

??? like Sergeant Budd,
happy where you're going?

I'm like, yeah, I'm
going to Africa Sir.

He goes, no, you're
going to Afghan.

I'm like, I'm
going to Afghan?

And he goes, yeah,
you're shipping out

here in about seven to
10 days and usually.

Yeah.

There's a build up.

Like count that six
months to a year.

Right.

Britain's usually
about three months.

He's like, yeah,
you're out of here.

Well, and he goes,
sir, we need to

talk about this.

So I go and have my
meeting is like they

Greneder guards are
taking the omelet,

which is the training
advisors role.

And there's a company
of leftover privates

that don't have any
hierarchy or head shed.

Right.

So he's said they need a
platoon Sergeant and I'm

sending you and another
Highlander, corporal

section commander to
go with his element.

So what happened was
the brigade commander

realized that he had
this rifle platoon that

was being coordinated
to guard camps.

Right.

That's what we thought
this was, the staffing

was going to be.

Right.

And it ended up was, I
guess this is going to be

a brigade strike company.

Oh wow.

So they ended up
facilitating a lot of

the command element from
across the different

infantry regiments,
the staff up as

this strike company.

So they actually were
building up, but what

they needed was a
continuity NCO to go out.

Right.

And get familiar.

With the area we're
going and all that.

So I was planning on
leaving and coming back

to Canada, I'm like,
I go to my dad, I got

one more tour dad,
got to go to Afghan.

And I thought that'd
be enough, cause prior

to that, you know,
done Northern Ireland,

Coatesville, Bosnia,
Iraq, and now Afghan.

Right.

In a short
period of time.

Yeah.

Very short.

So I'm like, all
right, let's go.

And I ended up getting
attached to a four five

commando through the
company down in Garmasir.

Okay.

And Garmasir's the
furthest South of

any British element
and its site.

30 miles from the
Pakistan border and

it was a gateway for
the Taliban coming

across from Pakistan.

Right.

And then they co-locate
in this area take on

this company, British
company and then

bypass and go out.

So it's kind of like a
training depot for them.

And the British in
this area couldn't go

any further because he
needed that golden hour

to fly back to camp
bastion of your injured.

So there was kind
of like the Brits

were dug in here.

And it was interesting,
they were on,there's

this hill called J-tack
hill that the British had

occupied and made in the
1800's, 1850, or I'd have

to look at the dates when
they were there again.

And here we are again
on top of that with

a union flag, British
union flag on top of

that, on the same mound.

Wow.

But yeah, that ended
up being about a seven

and a half month tour.

So I was attached
to the Royal Marines

for about four weeks.

One of the tasks
was we had the new

33H type rifle,
learned that rifle.

Like it wasn't even
in the UK, it was

literally elsewhere.

Know the ground, get
promoted to ground.

And then when our
company came out, that

continuity can be carried
over to the relief

in place happenings.

I was attached to the
Company Cypress section

for about four weeks
and got them up to

speed and then handed
it, handed off to their

section commander.

And then I took over
as a platoon Sergeant

with my platoon, which
I'd never met before.

The only guy I
knew was my section

commander from the
Highlander is big Alex.

Yeah.

And it was getting
to know this new

group of guys that
had never met before.

No kidding.

Yeah.

Wow, that'd be
quite an experience.

Yeah.

You know, I remember
when you came back and

you said, Hey, Trav,
let's go for a hike.

Okay, yeah, let's
go for a hike.

Now, I'm what, 6'6", 250
pounds, we're going up

the hillside and I guess
there's a couple things

that stood out at me.

Like number one, your
ability to just go,

like, you'd pick a pace
I'm like, Oh my God,

why is he going so slow?

But you don't stop and
you just keep going

and going and going.

Which over time, of
course, that's not

slow, it's quite a
bit more efficient.

Yeah.

But the other thing that
really stuck out was

there's another fellow
that we're with, I think

he was having an issue
with his boots at the

time and had a little
bit of an issue and

you said, okay, stop.

We're gonna stop right
here, you, Dennis,

administrate yourself.

Right.

And then we're
going to keep going.

But of course at the
same time, I had an

issue I'm like, oh
thank God, Dennis has

got something here so I
can take care of mine.

But the idea behind,
whenever something

small, I'm like, you
know, something small

on my boot at the time
right and just stop

administrate yourself
and keep on going.

And that whole mentality
of not necessarily

slow and steady,
but steady pace and

whenever something
comes up, attack it

and deal with it was
completely new to me.

And the amount of
distance that we covered

in a short period of time
and on subsequent runs

the amount of mountains
and hills that you and I

have done together that
prior to that, I wouldn't

have been doing it.

I had to be going as
fast as I can and then

burnout of the steam
and then having a rest.

And I don't know if
that's something that

you got from the British
army, or if that was

more something you
got in preparation for

SAS selection there.

You know, Travis,
that concept of fix a

problem when it's small.

Right.

It's common, right?

Yeah.

And, you know, feet
for an infantryman

is your, probably
your biggest asset.

Yeah.

Your boots got to fit.

So I was the type
of person I didn't

believe in blisters.

I don't believe in
breaking boots in.

Right.

They fit out of the
box or they don't.

Okay.

So I would buy a
new pair of boots.

So at the time
that the boots were

issued with crap.

Hmm.

One thing I did, am I
able to British army

were all in the infantry.

We could pretty much
wear anything we bought.

Where as long as it
was DPM or green or

black, we could use it.

So I always kind of
proud that the only

thing I went on SAS
selection that was

issued with socks.

I had everything
else I bought right.

As a kit mongler,
they called us.

Yeah, yeah.

But.

You're not a kit
monger anymore.

Not at all.

You should see my, I
have a seacan of climbing

and ski gear Travis.

I know you do,
I know you do.

You don't know how
many ski's I have.

Yeah.

So I would trial the
boots once, I would

allow myself to get
blisters once and

if I got the second
time, they're gone.

Right.

Right ,so I didn't
believe in blisters.

It's like fix it.

But for sure, like if
there's a problem, I'd

rather like, you know,
because as you know, I'm

an apprentice ski guide
with the association of

game mountain guides.

It's like, client care,
hey, I need you to tell

me I have blisters.

We have, need to
fix this now right.

Right.

But you know, Travis,
like that lesson

doesn't always apply.

Right.

Right.

For example, like I
think three, four years

ago, Mount Hector, I
think it's 14,000 feet

in the Canadian Rockies.

I was building my
resume to apply

for a pet to ski.

And we were ski
mountaineering with

my, partner Stephie.

We looked at the wind,
the weather window and

it was cold and clear.

But the avalanche
conditions were stable.

Like I'm like
we got to go.

Yeah.

This is where
we're doing it.

We get up super early
and we're heading

up Mount Hector.

And I had the biggest
burley gloves, these

Arc'Teryx gloves on.

Yeah.

And I didn't realize
that there's a goalie

that we had to boot
pack up and I didn't

have the draw strings.

They were like these
over cuffs for it right.

Yeah.

And there was snow
crystals falling

inside and then
they were melting.

Yeah.

But I'm working hard,
skis on the pack and

I'm like, I'm warm.

Probably minus 25.

Right.

But I'm warm.

So part of that
concept is like

soldier on through it.

Right.

So now we're above the
goalie and we're ski

touring up and we're
getting close to the

summit and now the wind
chill is hammering us.

And it's probably, I
think with windshield,

Steph said it was like
minus, probably 40.

Wow.

Already 50.

Right.

And thinking back to
my first selection, I

remember there's this
night nav march, so after

Gilberts Gut Buster.

Yeah.

That night you do a
night nav and you're

in a team of four.

Okay.

And you do like 16K.

Yeah.

So, and it's all night.

And then you get
about an hour of sleep

and you get back and
then you do a day.

Wow.

It's take that Thursday
into the Friday,

that's a long day.

No kidding.

I think the end
of week one.

But I remember going
up in that evening and

it was the last time
ever used a Camelback.

Really?

My lesson learned.

Yeah, we're allowed
Camelbak, we still

have to carry two
water bottles.

Yeah.

But my straw froze.

Okay.

Going up on this ridge.

My straw froze, I
can't get water and

then I think my right
eyeball froze as well.

And now I've got no water
and I get up there and

the group you're moving
at this group's pace

and it's like two in the
morning and they're just

going, you can't stop.

The unsort, you need
to sort myself out.

And it's just like,
you know, it was

horrible dehydrated
and everything.

No kidding.

So coming back to Mount
Hector, I remember my

hands being so cold.

Yeah.

And I remember it was
the last break before

the summit and I remember
I had a new dry pair of

gloves in my bag, but
I'm like, there's no

way, I didn't realize
that the snow had gone

down on my gloves.

And what's happened
is, is that it melted

and there's a fleece
element, like a liner,

and then the hard
Gore-Tex leather shell.

So that fleece pushed
all the moisture out.

Yeah.

But it couldn't
pass through.

The Gore-Tex.

The Gore-Tex.

So it was like this ice
shell formed in between

my finger and the shell.

Right.

My hands were cold,
but manageable.

I'm like, I remember
seeing these dry pair

of gloves, goin there's
no way they're going

to be as warm as the
gloves I have on.

Right.

I didn't change, but my
instinct said change your

gloves, but it didn't.

So we carry on, get to
the summit, take our

skins off for our skis.

Drop in beautiful
ski down, like going

up, probably take
us six hours, seven

hours to get there.

Yeah.

We were back at the
truck in like 40 minutes.

Wow.

We're high fivin, get
some great photos,

get into Tacoma and
we're driving back

to the hostel, where
we had, we're moving

hostels at nights.

We had to grab our
gear and we were

going to head into
another hostel in town.

And I remember just two
minutes driving down the

road and I'm like, uh oh.

Yeah, you did it.

And the pain just hit me.

We were just only a
couple of minutes.

We got to the hostel
and I gave myself

frostbite in my pinky.

Yeah.

And I gave a frostnip
in every other finger.

Right.

And the pain was so,
like that frostbite

in the pinky, like
I was incapacitated.

Wow.

Like I had to sit at
the table and just moan

and then like Steph had
to do everything, load

us up in the Tacoma,
drive to the new hostal.

And that night,
like incapacitated

didn't sleep.

And then we go decided
to go to the hospital.

Like my pinky is black.

Wow.

Right.

And the doc's like we
already booked some

more nights up in the
Wapta, up in the bow hut.

Yeah.

Do some ski touring
and the doc's like oh

yeah, it's great, you
get another reinjury and

we amputate in August.

So there you, I go,
that's our trip done.

Yeah, no kidding.

So I think that
was February.

So we came back.

So that, that lesson,
yeah, Trav, like I have

the gear, I know better.

It's that, I find now,
if that, if something's

telling you, that
instinct, that voice.

That's huge, that's huge.

That's huge, like
you should do that.

Listen to it, if it
says change, I need to

change my gloves, no,
change your gloves.

You know, I
need to do this.

That is, I think
that voice has kept a

lot of people alive.

Gavin de Becker, a fellow
by the name of Gavin

de Becker wrote a book
called the gift of fear.

And essentially aside
from it being a great

big sales pitch for his
company, which a lot of

it is, the underlining
thread in it was, we

have a voice inside of
us that is essentially

an instinctual
voice that we should

probably listen to.

If you, it talks about,
you walk into a bar and

spidey senses say this
isn't right, this is

not a safe place to be.

But then you start
trying to think about

it, ah no, I'm safe.

I'm a big guy.

I can take
care of myself.

He says, you know what?

Just, just listen
to the voice.

Maybe it's time to
take off and leave.

And, you know, I think
that voice Trav, it's

interesting that you
brought that up because

you know, the British
army in Northern

Ireland, they call it the
absence of the normal.

Training you to
observe this.

Right.

So for example, like
kids on the street

playing soccer,
football, and then no

kids on that street.

Well, that's a good
common indicator.

Don't go down
that street.

Right.

So I kind of noticed
in Iraq at nighttime,

like during the night
we did most of our

work during the night.

It seemed like we
surrendered a lot of the

area to the insurgents
during the day.

And then we took
over at night.

Fair enough.

I like to do, we
didn't operate a

lot during the day.

They didn't operate a
lot during the night,

but one thing I kind of
noticed was that dogs

really barked for us.

Okay.

But they're silent
for the locals

and insurgents.

So that was a common
indicator for me, was

that if something was
amiss, was silent dogs.

Interesting.

Right.

I don't know if the
owners took them in

or what, but that was
just an indicator.

And then I kinda like
in Afghan, I don't

know how I kinda
honed these senses,

but I realized that
animals sense energy.

Okay, yeah.

And just prior to maybe
an ambush being sprung

or something, I just
found that the calmness.

Calm before the storm.

Interesting.

Right.

And even to the point
where I even found

mosquitoes not bite,
and I don't know

how we're here or
anything, but I, but.

Well, maybe it's
something and maybe it

was a mosquito thing,
or maybe it's something

that your spidey senses
are going, you've

got it back there.

And you just happened
to be noticing these

other things that
are correlating.

And I think that that's
exactly it, Travis, it's

our powers to observe our
surroundings around us.

Right.

So I remember when,
you know, I'm back

in Canada now and my
girlfriend at the time,

we went to watch a
movie in Maple Ridge.

Okay.

In the new theatre
they had there.

Yeah.

And I walk in and
something just

didn't feel right.

Right.

Just observing.

And I go to my girlfriend
and I'm like, we

need to leave now.

And she knew me well
enough not to question

my, just my sense
of something's not.

And just as we left,
there was a big police

take down undercover
on some organized gang

members out were there.

Interesting.

And she's like,
I'm never going to

doubt your sense.

Never.

Yeah.

I can't advocate enough
to listen to that.

Whatever it might
be big or small,

just listen to it.

Yeah.

So that was just another
example of, my gut didn't

feel right about it and
you know, I'm moving into

the guiding world, that
intuition is huge, right?

That's so part of
your train assessment.

And, you know, in ski
guiding is a lot of

times it's like, what
is my gut telling me?

Right.

And why is it
telling me this?

Right.

So that's pretty
important for sure.

Maybe we should take
a look at doing a

bit more work on the
navigation courses that

we're putting together.

And maybe we'll come
back and talk about

those at a later time
too, because you're

relaying some pretty cool
stories about and some

humorous ones as well
about navigation issues

with the British army.

I think it went for
an Africa there too.

Yeah.

Jason, thank you very
much for taking the

time to talk with
me on the podcast.

No worries Trav, thanks.