Words of Radiance Part 7 - Brandon Sanderson - Fantasy Book - Progression Fantasy Book

Hey, Adventurers, in this episode of the Side Quest Podcast, Slava and Jonathan delve into the complexities of Shalon's family dynamics, the perspectives of the guards in the narrative, Kaladin's struggles with imprisonment and relationships, and Dalinar's political maneuvering. The enigmatic character of Wit is also discussed, raising questions about his true intentions and the importance of storytelling in understanding the world.

Our website: www.thesidequestpodcast.com

Discover Side Quest: https://linktr.ee/asidequest
Powered by Descript
Our IG Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | Leave us a comment & connect with us on Instagram

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Our TikTok Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | Music by HoliznaCC0v

(00:00) Intro
(03:00) Shallan's Struggles and Family Dynamics
(06:08) Guards and Shifting Perspectives
(09:03) Kaladin’s Imprisonment and Fractured Relationships
(11:50) Dalinar and Navani’s Political Maneuvering
(15:59) Wit’s Mysterious Intentions and Observations
(29:07) Character Insights and Humor
(30:28) Kaladin’s Internal Battles and Emotional Distance
(33:16) Betrayal and Tension in the Chasms
(39:11) Falling into the Unknown
(41:14) Navigating Danger and Relationship Shifts
(49:00) The Complexities of Affection and Vulnerability
(53:18) Vigil, Loss, and Reflection
(55:55) Exploring Identity Through Trauma
(01:01:07) Chasm Revelations and Turning Points
(01:04:20) Confronting the Weight of Family Legacy
(01:11:20) Living with the Weight of Choices
(01:16:17) The Path to Redemption

Creators and Guests

Host

Jonathan

Host

Slava

Digital Strategist. Co-Host. Aspiring writer of stories.

What is The Side Quest Book Club Podcast?

If you’re a reader looking for something deeper or an indie author working on your book, The Side Quest Book Club is for you. We skip the usual book reviews and ratings. Each episode turns fun side quests into real lessons, so you’ll leave not just entertained, but with a better understanding of why storytelling matters.

Slava (00:00.206)
That is a very apt description. If he was a dog, he would totally be a golden retriever. A great Dane? I don't know.

What would Kaladin be?

Jonathan (00:10.798)
I was gonna say the Yokiro Taco Bell Dog.

Ah! I was gonna say a chihuahua too.

is that what? That's right. That's what it's called.

But then I realized Chihuahuas

here, riddle me this. I see the Yokiro Taco Bell dog, doing his day job and being like, I know how to do this. Yokiro Taco Bell. And then like gets back to his trailer and it's just like, I want to kill myself.

Jonathan (00:42.414)
Good morning, good afternoon, and good night, wherever you're tuning in. We are Slava and Jonathan, bringing you SideQuest Podcast, where we talk about character development, stories, and all things that are world building. And we occasionally take SideQuests, because frankly, that's how conversations work. Just as a reminder, this whole show is spoiler heavy. So sit back, tune in, and join us on this episode of SideQuest.

Jonathan (01:15.81)
back on the... lusory winds? You know, I've said that probably for every episode that we've recorded here of Roshar. You need to give me some new intros. Stop writing the same ones.

Back in the Shattered Plains.

better.

riding the chasm fiends through the misty fog that is the copper mine.

Those are words, but anyway.

Slava (01:40.386)
Those are words stuck together to make a sentence.

Those words are not accepted. Those words are not accepted. They're still not going to be accepted.

Should I sing them to you? As you like, as you and I.

boy, that was a spicy episode last time. I told Spencer about that afterward and he's like, I never made the connection either. And I was like, yeah, dude, Hesh and I rounded people up, putting them in camps or groups. Sounds real familiar to World War II. Anyway, we don't have to rehash that.

It's not a political podcast. We make no claims to any party or philosophy. We do.

Jonathan (02:17.134)
Well, we make claims to a specific philosophy, but not necessarily a party. The opinions held on the show do not necessarily reflect that of side quests. Can we say that? I don't know if we can.

It's our opinions and we own the show so they do reflect very heavily.

alright. opinions made on this show do not necessarily reflect that of Roshar. Is that a true statement? I think that's a true

Yes.

Legal's telling me that that's perfect. You move on.

Jonathan (02:46.344)
Legal My gosh, know, you've made it when you have to have a legal team whose is Roxy our legal team Yeah, boy. I don't know what to do about that buy more treats, I guess

She is. Essentially.

Slava (03:00.716)
You gotta keep the lawyers happy. That's right. They don't work for free.

That's right, some treats and some bones. The bones of the chasm fiends.

Rock should need to be a pretty big dog to be able to handle a bone of a chasm fiend.

Probably.

But let's get into it. We are on chapter 65, The One Who Deserves It. We're back with the My Girl Shalon. She's in her room. Not two hours have passed since her father ordered Halloran assassinated and a pair of guards have been stationed outside the hallway. She suspects the guards are here to keep her stepmother from trying to flee, though she doesn't even know whether Malay's or Malese is still alive.

Slava (03:44.408)
She quietly slips from her room and walks towards the guards, hands trembling. She doesn't know them. All of the guards she'd grown up with have been replaced. One of the men puts his hand to stop her, but she keeps walking, insisting that her father will need her. As she passes her father's door, she can hear her stepmother softly weeping. Shalon finds her father slumped at the table in the feast hall.

but slips into the kitchen before he notices her. She mixes his favorite drink, deep violet wine, warmed and spiced with cinnamon. Sounds disgusting. When she returns to the feast hall and gives it to him, she looks into his eyes. She doesn't see the darkness there, which is very rare these days. Lynn complains that no one listens to him and that his house should support him. Shallan tells him that she'll speak with them

and goes outside into the night air. She finds Balot laying on a bench in the gardens. He's been ripping the claws off Kremlings again. Shalon tells them that their father can't control him anymore and that he's ordered the assassination of their brother Halloran. They make a plan for Balot and Malize to escape with a letter from Shalon to warn their brother.

Shalom then returns to the house and goes to her father's sitting room. The guards stop her, but she holds her ground despite her fear, and eventually they let her pass. This is the first time that she's entered this room in years, and she has to raise a hand to shade her eyes from the light coming from behind the painting. It's blinding to her, and she wonders how anyone can stand it. Her stepmother curled up in a chair with her lip

split and her arm broken. Says that Lynn will kill them all. Shalon starts treating the wounds and tells her stepmother about the escape plan. As Shalon is about to leave, her stepmother asks her, if I go and Belat with me, who will he hate? Who will he hit? Maybe you finally, the one who actually deserves it. Shalon just replies,

Slava (06:08.32)
Maybe. Hey for a little wench.

sounds like the workings of a Germanic folktale, fairy tale. Old wicked old stepmother hates the daughter. That's like every folktale from what I can recall. And maybe, you know, not even just the daughter, but the kids. Although it doesn't seem like malaise necessarily hates the boys.

No, she just hates Shalan because she gets love and attention or doesn't get any beatings to be more precise.

Mm-hmm, and she believes that Jalon deserves it.

Yeah, just like any well adjusted grown woman.

Jonathan (06:47.726)
So those are words, again, words that you've chosen.

that sarcastically.

Yes, those words are maybe accepted. We'll find out. So pretend you're the guards. I just was thinking this when you were giving us the rehash. Pretend you're the guards here and you've just been hired to replace the previous group. Like, what are you thinking?

If it's me as the guards, I'm just there to get a paycheck. couldn't give two flying fornications about Lynn's problems or his mental stability. And I really don't care if his kid walks in and be like, yeah, go, go, go talk to your father. Leave me alone. I'm standing here. I'm having a sick. I'm going to have a cigarette.

Fair enough, that does sound about right.

Slava (07:34.414)
If I'm a guard, I'm mercenary in some sense of that word, maybe not a direct sense, but I'm I'm just getting here paid. I'm supposed to protect Lin from something, something, somebody's killing him, blah, blah, And it seems that's how the guards are actually reacting because they're sort of like, hey, no, your father, okay, nevermind, go.

That's it.

Jonathan (07:55.758)
Yeah, don't do that. Oh, she did it. All right. Very, very motivated guards. You can hire them for your own house.

What prompted the thought? What do you think you'd have done?

I would not have done anything different. It's just when I read something like this, and I mean, you've seen this in countless books that we've read. I'm always looking at it from multiple perspectives. So like there's a perspective it's written in, which is Shalon, what she's going through, whatever. There's malaise who hates her, right? And then there's the guards. These are the three kind of point of views we see in here. We also see Blot cutting animals up again, but he's probably just in a...

not a drunken stupor, but like a, well, think malaise is probably a great word to use, a malaise of just like, life will never change depression, right? So the guards are the ones that I haven't considered before. And so in my mind, I'm like, what if I'm the guards? Like, what is this like? And I just got hired and replace these people. And then this is what I'm dealing with. And I go, yeah, it's just kind of a paycheck. Probably don't expect it to last very long, but.

your life isn't really at risk, perceivably. just a kooky old man who thinks he's gonna get assassinated, so, whatever.

Slava (09:13.262)
Yeah, and I'm sure they can observe all the gongs on. Well, they can obviously, but they can probably also read the room fairly well. They're at all intelligent emotionally. They're probably looking around going, this is a weird fricking house. And all the rich folks are probably weird, you know, like, okay, whatever. I'm just here. This is a paycheck. This guy is maybe less or more centric than any other Lord we've guarded, but they probably...

sense some sort of darkness in the house too, or some sort of tension. There's a lot of it. You have to be blind not to see it. Yeah, there's a one-armed bridge man on the other side of the planet. So why not a blind guard?

Maybe they're blind guards.

Jonathan (09:58.926)
That's what I'm saying here, Slava. That's what I'm saying. And you know, at this time in the story, I bet he has two arms.

If I were to guess. If I were to guess. Anyway, I don't have a whole lot more on this particular chapter unless you do.

Now it's just another peek into Shalan's world. seems that her escaping was probably the best thing for her, wherever her intentions were. Her running off to Yasna was the best thing that happened to her.

Well, her father's dead when she does that, but still. Still probably very good for her.

Yeah.

Slava (10:36.46)
Yeah, that's a fair point. I overlooked that. But staying there, dealing with a brother's nonsense, dealing with an unstable malaise to whom probably the house would go to before it went to anybody.

I don't remember the political workings of Roshar if it goes to the son or the wife first.

Well, it's not going to Halloran.

He's also dead Slava. Would you like to pick another dead character to talk about?

killed by Kaladin.

Jonathan (11:08.524)
Yes. And, we haven't, we haven't gotten to that reveal yet in terms of, Shalan's point of view. Shalan believes that Amoram did it. And so everyone hates Amoram. Yasna hated Amoram. Shalan hates Amoram. Kaladin hates Amoram. Saddius likes Amoram. But that, but that makes sense. Yeah.

all the things to hate Amoram for, the only unjustified one is the death of Halloran?

fair enough. Meridas Amram. He gets mentioned in the next chapter.

Well, let's look at it. Chapter 66.

Kaladin mopes in his cell, imagining paranoid fantasies of his incompetence and of Bridge 4, placating him by saying they like to be the bodyguards. Kaladin snaps to alertness as the jailer says he is pardoned with no loss of rank and free to go. Kaladin vows that he will never be imprisoned again by anyone as he leaves. He figures he was there for several weeks based on his beard. They pass another cell where Adolin is locked up and he leaves his cell as well.

Jonathan (12:18.286)
And the jailer explains that Adolin demanded to be locked up until Kaladin was freed. Adolin says that he did this because it wasn't right for Kaladin to be locked up since Kaladin saved his life and that of his brothers. Again. Can we just pause for a second? Again. He saved Adolin's life again. So yeah, I think that was the right move Adolin. Bravo to you.

The two banter and reconcile and Adolin holds Elokar responsible for the failure of their plan. Kaladin confirms that he was telling the truth when he accused Amorim and Adolin believes him despite Dalinar's friendship with Amorim. They enter another room where most of Bridge 4 awaits Kaladin to celebrate his liberation. Adolin calls for quiet and says that after the other shards were distributed, there was a full set remaining which he gives to Kaladin.

Kaladin gives them to Moash and Adolin objects until Kaladin explains his dislike of shardblades and that he is more than capable on the battlefield even without shards as he showed in the arena. For when Zeth returns and that they would have an additional shardbearer for their confrontation in Moash, Adolin tells Moash to take the shards and that he will now be a Light Eyes and can start his own house or join one of Dalinar's. Moash takes up the shardblade amassing glory spren.

and has the armorers put the armor on him. Bridge 4 then returns to their barracks to eat some stew that has been simmering the entire time that Kaladin was locked up. Teft brings Kaladin up to speed on Bridge 4's activities and emotions while he was away. Kaladin talks privately with Moash and says he agrees with the plan to remove Alucar and Moash is pleased and that they will possibly deal with Amoram next.

Moash decides to go to the sparring grounds to practice and Kaladin returns to the barracks to feast. Moash.

Slava (14:10.766)
And O'Caledon also.

Yeah, Calladin's getting himself in some deep doo-doo. He might not be a radiant much longer. Too many oaths in too many directions. Leaves a man cut off from his spren, weak and almost dying. Is that a fair thing? That's fair.

That's about fair. But Caledon's Caledon. Good old morose. Woe is me, Caledon. In that kind of state, he doesn't make the greatest decisions.

Do any of us?

No?

Jonathan (14:51.116)
Yeah. So when you first read this, what was your takeaway? This is also before you realized what Moash would do.

Not at all.

Slava (14:59.95)
So I'm looking at Kaladin, you know, giving away his sharp blade. I'm rolling my eyes. Right. Get over it, dude. This is understandable given the mental state of Kaladin, but also if we're being objective, that's not the only side of it. Cause we all have mental states and we all do stupid things sometimes based on our mental states, which might not be stable.

again again

Slava (15:30.112)
Or right. So there's the people that will rally behind Calvin and say, but you don't know he's depressed. He's this, brother was killed and his friends were killed with sharp blade and blah, blah, blah. Okay. Yeah, I get it. But that's over. You have a job to do. You have been told by trust worthy sources that this is the right thing to do. Protect these people. You now get a sharp blade.

irrespective of your ability to fight shardbearers with sticks and win. This is a way to do some good, to fulfill those things, to change the things that you hate, to fulfill the oaths that you have taken. He seems unable to see that. So for me, was a bit frustrating seeing the scene unfold.

So most of your thoughts were towards Kaladin. No real thoughts towards Moash. Fair enough. Fair enough.

So that was chapter 66, Sto- We're moving on to Spit and Bile. Chapter 67. We are with Dalinar and Navani. They watch two armies return from a hunt and one of their guards leaves to get a status report. Dalinar thinks how disciplined Bridge 4 is and how Kaladin is fit.

Storm blessings.

Slava (17:00.714)
and the ideal type of officer that Dallinor has been looking for. Navani talks about possible usage for Fabriels and how gemstones weren't always used to bond shardblades, a fact which alters their understanding as shardblades. As she talks, he thinks about his more urgent preparations for their expedition to the Shattered Plains. She notices his distracted state and comments on it.

then expresses her ongoing grief for the loss of Jasna and Dalinar comforts her. Navani asks Dalinar how he has coped with the death of his wife, but he doesn't answer, though he thinks how he couldn't remember his wife anymore due to a hole in his memories. Dalinar mentions the secrets hidden by Gavilar and Navani says that she will try to find something in her journals about it.

though she's already checked many times. Dallinor says their immediate concern is the feast they are attending and Navani admonishes him to try to be more encouraging instead of contemptful of the other high princes before they separate to the gender segregated islands of the feast. Dallinor goes to the King's Island noticing people seem to be paying more attention to him as he walks by.

Dalinar steps up to Vama and inquires about his hunt strategy. But Vama's response is interrupted by several people laughing nearby and Dalinar leaves to investigate. Ending up face to face with Aladar and Xadius. Dalinar confronts them but they feign ignorance and walk away. Dalinar looks around for someone else to question then he hears Wit welcome Amoram to the feast with insults.

Though Amaram responds in a friendly manner, Dalinar asks Amaram about some papers being distributed, but is constantly interrupted by Witt's remarks until Dalinar and Amarok walk away from him. Amaram tells Dalinar the papers have accounts of Dalinar's visions as dictated to Navani. Dalinar tells Amaram to bring Navani to him, but she's already heading to protect Dalinar and that he would like an apology from him.

Slava (19:27.83)
Navani brings some of the papers and tells Dallinor the words and tone were changed to make it seem that Navani was humoring Dallinor by transcribing these visions and mocking commentary was added. Dallinor asks if the visions are accurate despite the mocking tone and commentary and that in the future he will have accounts of his visions published or scholars to investigate. He vows that he will be vindicated instead of broken.

and says that he will talk to each of them individually and ask them to speak their minds to his face instead of anonymously. Dalinar sits down to rest after hours of politicking and talking up his expedition to the Shattered Plains. Wit approaches and compliments Dalinar on his approach to dealing with the insults. Wit implies that Dalinar outshines Elokar in importance

and Dallnur asks if he is a tyrant. Witt replies that he is a benevolent one, which is preferable to a weak ruler, and that the world needs this currently. Witt says that what was done to unify the kingdom years ago was good work, but Dallnur complains about how weak the kingdom is because of the means they used in unification.

and that more than benevolent tyranny is needed according to Nohaddon, with cryptically comments that he has to go somewhere but doesn't know why and when asked denies that he's a radiant or a herald and that their goals are not completely aligned and that Wit would watch the world crumble and burn to get what he needs, though not happily, and that Dalinar can't trust Wit. Wit says that he will try to help carefully

but must avoid being destroyed by Dallinor's enemy, the father of hatred.

Jonathan (21:31.157)
Mmm.

Bit and bio.

Let's talk about wit. We had a discussion a couple of weeks ago and you were asking me like, well, what does what want what's going on? thinking Unbeknownst to you that I or Spencer had all the answers about wit and I told you that we as a Cosmere in group have no idea what wit wants we have speculations, but wit is a character very dear to Brandon's heart and

Witt has his own series that will eventually come out called Dragonsteel, which is the name of Brandon's company. However, it isn't written. It probably won't be written for another 15, maybe 25 years. Partly because Brandon wants to make sure he gets Witt's voice correct. And so he's been releasing secret projects written from Witt's or Hoyt's perspective. All that said,

What's your take on Wit, what he wants in your opinion based on everything you know? I realize that you're not fully breathed with the entire Cosmere at this point, but why would Wit tell Dalinar he can't trust him? Why would Wit say that he'd watch the world burn? Although sadly, if he had to to get what he wants, like what does Wit want?

Slava (22:54.648)
Fantastic question. And I think the answer lies primarily in what you said just a few seconds ago, which is you know a lot more about Wit and Hoy than you're letting on and that I am in the shallow end of the Cosmere. So.

I hope you're waddling like a penguin.

Yeah, look at me based on what I know and all the stuff you haven't told me that I can only speculate is with desires are multifaceted. They're not always explicitly stated. And when he states them, they're always shrouded in his characteristic wit, maybe pun intended and cryptic pronouncements. Here we have it. We have a.

Nothing answer to a complicated question. Firstly,

Classic Slava, a nothing answer to a complicated question.

Slava (23:51.51)
No, classic Jonathan not telling Slava enough for Slava to give a... I'm not- Pogeon answer.

I literally told you weeks ago, I was like, we don't have all the answers. We don't have all the information. Plug your ears. Mom and dad are fighting.

You also just said... ...Six. ...Six years ago.

It's always uncomfortable when daddy hits mommy at the dinner table.

Calm down, Shalon's dad.

Slava (24:13.678)
So yeah, yeah, yeah, you don't know a lot, but you also just said a few seconds ago, a minute ago, that you and Spencer know stuff that you're not telling me, but we'll let that go.

Not really. mean, a couple of weeks ago when I gave you the full download, like that's everything that I can remember off the top of my head. Literally didn't hold anything back. Spencer, Spencer, you're never going to listen to this episode anyway. Spencer didn't tell you anything. So do with that what you will.

I have noted that in my book of revenge. His name is not getting crossed off. No, okay, serious. Let's get serious. So first observation by Slava. Witt has a pretty clear desire for stories. He explicitly states to Caledon, he has come for a story. He's previously requested stories. I've come for a story from you, my friend. I want one thing, a story. And he expresses.

his hope that it will be dynamic because understandably so him being the character he is, he cannot stomach boredom. He also has a desire for collecting information, understanding, observation of the world and the people in it. He's trying to get some sort of frame of reference, I guess, about all the stuff that he's observing on each of the world that he hops to.

Mm-hmm.

Slava (25:40.724)
He is might be a little peculiar for us because okay, so he's collecting stories. What are the stories mean to him? Do they are objective meaning outside of all the characters? That's not answered. Not for me. Here's,

Slava (26:03.438)
because he's been on so many worlds. What doesn't he have?

that he is looking for. He's couching it in a need for stories. He's observing the worlds and the behavior. Right question. But what is he missing? We all know through the cause that I have in my mind.

I think that's also kind of discovered was at the Cosmere's Big Bang-ish. I call it the Big Bang because it wasn't actually the form of creation, but it was the shattering of adenalsium, which was the god of the Cosmere before the shards.

So the shards, each of the shards, the original 16, were there at the shattering of adenylsium. And wit did not take any of the powers.

Slava (27:04.6)
Yeah, so that goes into my fifth point about Wit is he does have a desire to help. It's certainly in his terms. It's certain observation and the preservation of his mission as a prayer. He tells Dallinor that try to help, but that Dallinor must avoid becoming his enemy. Then he also has to go to a specific place.

in this book specifically, but he doesn't know why. there's he doesn't understand. And maybe that's connected to, you know, points one and two I was making where he's cryptic. Maybe he doesn't want to show his hand, but probably he doesn't know the extent of everything and that's doing. Finally, he says energy between, Shalon, right. And him and he knows things she's versa. My previous points, that's all him trying to.

Gathering so I guess if I was to summarize he's trying to understand the world or if he whatever he doesn't understand That's with him with his goals, which as you have stated we really don't know a lot about his goals Those whatever that yeah, he makes people upset by insulting them which you know

for whatever that.

Slava (28:28.898)
Yeah. Yeah. So I think the best way to understand what he wants for me now in this point in time in the Cosmere on the...

don't think we have enough data for that. talked about this in a previous episode on this book. To Kaladin, he tells one type of story. To Shalom, he tells another.

You can tell me

Jonathan (28:49.75)
yeah and i don't think we have enough patterns for that i don't know if there's enough data point yet

So are there connections between those stories?

Mmmmm

Pattern what?

Slava (29:04.44)
Wait.

Well, Pattern says that.

What? Okay, well, it's your life. You can avoid mating if you want. Mm-hmm. Yes, that was a dumb joke. But that's that. I think he's a very fun character.

Slava (29:22.198)
Outside of the main characters, which obviously everybody knows, Shalon's my gal. I like her. He is second place only because I don't know enough about him. I think if we had him as fleshed out all the time in these books, just because he's so...

He's so funny and I like funny witty characters. I like characters who are as confident as him. Which is actually five books, which is actually you want to follow along. He's always causing trouble. He's something's always happening. Yeah, there's always something happening around him and it's always fun. whether it's a big old battle or a little diatribe between him and a highlord.

is actually 20 something books.

Jonathan (30:01.57)
Trickster archetype.

Slava (30:13.4)
But we don't know a lot about him so he's very much second place. That's about it. That's what my thoughts on Witt.

your little wit diatribe. All right.

Yes, that's one way of putting it, my little wood die tripe.

Nice. Well, let's move on to the 68.

Bridges.

Slava (30:39.618)
That's not a word. Those are not accepted.

Slava (30:45.038)
Those are not words, not accepted.

Non-words are not accepted. Nice.

Or are you trying to say Dallin urs wife's name that you also forgot?

that's funny. Kaladin is on a scouting expedition to the Shattered Plains and has bad memories of being a Bridgman. He frets that he is unable to absorb stormlight unless Selfrena is near him. Kind of true. And she admonishes him for being naughty and acts capriciously. You know, I don't think I've ever seen the word written down. You know, when you've got, anyway, I'll keep going. Capriciously toward him.

preciously.

Slava (31:23.394)
Words are hard.

These words are accepted. Words are hard. He grows angry that Cil doesn't agree and his decision and says he is broken. All right, depressed boy. To which she replies that all the old nights were.

He stills like, yeah, you're just another, you're just another of the same. You're just all, you're all depressed. decides to ignore her and enjoy the company of Bridge 4 as they reach a plateau with a permanent scouting location. He overhears a scout tell Dalinar that a glowing flying man was spotted in the plains and Dalinar believes that that was Zeth, though it was actually Caleon. Dalinar and Caleon discuss how Renarn is fitting in with Bridge 4 and if that is affecting him positively or...

negatively. Kaladin has more difficulty absorbing Stormlight, finds Silfrenna later, almost acting like a wind sprint, and she tells Kaladin to decide what he wants. And he realizes he made two conflicting promises to Moash and to Dalinar, which violates the code of honor. He asks for advice and Silfrenna tells him to find the words and then she flies away. Kaladin, you're sacrificing one of the best things that could happen to you. Get over it. As Slava said.

Pick up a shard blade and fight. Shalan draws a sketch of one of the mechanical bridges before it's unloaded. Kaladin also watches and recognizes one of the carpenters. Moash shows up in his shards and salutes Kaladin, though he now outranks him, and says that he will always be a part of bridge four, even as a light eyes. Moash says that the assassination plot is close to fruition and that they only need Kaladin to create an opening, which makes him worry over what Silfrennus told him.

Jonathan (33:16.256)
Adolin and Kaladin discuss contingencies for a possible attack by Zeth, and Adolin asks for advice about women. I wouldn't go to Kaladin about women advice.

Now, the only device I would want from Kalden is how to carry a bridge.

I was going to say how to kill a shardbearer, but I guess your advice ask is also fair. Adolin tries to get Kaladin to reveal his abilities, but fails. Yeah, this is like such a funny scene. I thought this was a little later, but I'm remembering now. So let's talk about Adolin's very nonchalant way of going, huh? Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. So put it, bring that up in a second. Shalon joins them and starts sketching some moss and they banter a bit.

With Shalon getting upset that Kaladin insulted Adolin and that Kal acts so negatively despite Adolin's positive attitude. Kaladin rejoins Bridge 4 to carry their mobile bridge over the Mechanical One toward their destination where a chasm fiend was slain, where Shalon plans to study the Chrysalis. They reach the destination and the carpenter that Kaladin recognized calls to Dalinar who crosses the bridge. Kaladin realizes the carpenter works for Sadius's lumberyard and cries out a warning.

He gets Adolin and Dalinar off the bridge, but it's too late as the carpenter throws an emergency lever that causes the bridge to collapse with Aladdin and Shalon still on it, falling into the chasms, which is like an 80 foot drop, something like that.

Slava (34:45.237)
So let's get to your point first, the little banter between Adolin and Kelden here.

Can we re-dramatize this real quick? I will be Adolin and you will be Kaladin, your favorite. Hey Kal, how about that flying man?

I don't know, I'm so sad right now. The world is falling apart. You know, life is drab.

I know what you can do. Not so easy is it to play Kaladin on TV? We can try role reversal. All right. I'll be Kaladin.

Well, because I'm not Calvin.

Slava (35:19.97)
Hey, Cal. What about that flying man in the sky? He seems familiar, doesn't he?

I wanna kill myself.

Okay, To you. Keep going. These words are not accepted.

are you would okay point

Slava (35:40.814)
Oh goodness. All right. Seriously, this was a, well seriously, this was fun. It's.

He's He's like a golden retriever.

That is a very apt description. If he was a dog, he would totally be a golden retriever. A great Dane? I don't know.

What would Kaladin be?

Jonathan (36:02.498)
I was gonna say the YOKIRO

I was gonna say a chihuahua too.

is that what? That's right. That's what it's called.

But then I realized Chihuahuas

No, here, riddle me this. I see the Yokiro Taco Bell dog like doing his day job and being like, I know how to do this. Yokiro Taco Bell. And then like gets back to his trailer and it's just like, I want to kill myself. And like has to play, you know, his role in, out in the world correctly.

Slava (36:35.502)
I love the fact that we thought of the same dog, but for obviously different reasons. don't that's yes. wait and you're a shell on. But I'd be still on. I like her. I don't want to be here.

Anyway, have to... I... Why would I be Shalom? Why would I be Shalom? You like her.

And I know more about wit than you do.

And proof I get it, you keep holding out information.

And sometimes I date women who are thousands of years younger than me.

Slava (37:02.732)
Hmm. What? figured that he's dating some mortal or something equivalent to that word that is like 36 and she happens and he happens to be 110,000 apparently.

It'll make sense later.

Jonathan (37:17.762)
Yeah, we don't know how old he is. Anyway, keep watching.

A few thousand years since he was there at the Big Bang.

Right. Yeah. Right, right.

But what a nice cliffhanger this leaves us this chapter.

Not much of a cliffhanger if you're falling into a chasm, but I know what you meant

Slava (37:37.198)
Okay.

The people who enjoy puns.

We'll get what I meant. But yeah, this is a hell of a thing that happened because Moesh acted more quickly than we thought in the initial read, right? And then, wait a minute, this is a guy from Sadius's camp that pulls the lever. So there's these powers outside of Dallinor's court, his family, his guards. Moesh isn't the only one trying to get rid of.

people.

Yes, people, the King and Dalinar specifically. have Zeth, Sansan Villano, have Sadeus for his own perverse ambitions, now Moash. And Moash actually wants Elokar to go, not Dalinar. So it's multifaceted, this whole plan. And that's obvious for any good book. It's not like I'm saying something profound like, we didn't know it was multifaceted. Yeah, obviously. But yes, you have better words.

Jonathan (38:31.308)
Yeah, plots are converging.

Slava (38:44.59)
Plots are converging and that's why the cliffhangers haha punny but also like holy crap there is an attack that happened plots converging and Kelden and Shalon are the ones that are falling in the chasm they're the ones who who were not the targets of the hit but end up being the ones who are targets of the hit

Callan and Chalan finally falling in love with each other.

Well, at least in some sort of love, They find some affections for each other while cowering in the cracks of the chasm.

I mean, since we're talking about it, let's keep going here. Chapter 69. Nothing. Kaladin falls into the chasm and is able to absorb a bit of stormlight through desperate effort, though he hears a pained scream from Silphrena as he does so and hits the ground, falling unconscious. He awakes in darkness since all his fears were drained and great pain. And here's a voice asking, what has he done? Sil's scream haunts him.

Nothing.

Jonathan (39:48.226)
He is injured and gets to his feet and runs into Shalon and lies about how he survived. And Shalon explains how the bridge was collapsed. They search the bridge wreckage and find several bodies, but don't see Dalinar or Adolin. Kaladin thinks that he somehow saved Shalon. Kaladin says that there were parsheni attack right before the bridge fell. And that means that Dalinar probably retreated. Kaladin tells Shalon that they may have been rescued by a wind sprint, as in folktales.

Kaladin and Shalan discuss how they will survive and what dangers they may face, the worst of which is a high storm due the following night. They decide to set out immediately for the war camps. Shalan is both annoyed and pleased to find Kaladin survived and thinks that she saved both of them somehow. As they walk, she notices how much plant life there is in the chasm. Kaladin walks silently and asks if Shalan will constantly chat as they travel and ignores her response.

Focusing on finding the shortest path back to the war camps, Shalon tries to get Kaladin to relax, but he reveals his prejudice against the Light Eyes, and she says he only uses that as an excuse to be obnoxious. He brings up the incident with the boots and then reveals that he doesn't have a grudge and that he doesn't actually dislike her as he does other Light Eyes. Shalon is insulted and they start an argument that is cut off as they hear a loud scraping noise that seems to be approaching them.

Thank you, Sean.

Jonathan (41:14.808)
They realize the danger there and begin to run.

love this chapter because both Kaladin and Shalan know that they are Radiants. And they're both like, yeah, I saved them obviously because the other guy is definitely not a Radiant. Shalan's not a Radiant. She's a dumb light eyes who chats too much. And Shalan thinks, well, this... Obnoxious, know, boob is definitely not a Radiant because he's obnoxious boob. So that's fun. And then it ends with them running from a Chasm fiend.

and steals my boo-

Jonathan (41:43.49)
I think that character wise, both of them is like, has a bit of a McGuffin, right? Like, I think that I saved them. no, I think that they saved it. You know, maybe I'm using the wrong term, but that's what comes to mind to me.

Yeah, it's not a MacGuffin. MacGuffin is something that, you know, the audience never knows what it is, but it's like a key object.

Well, that's why I said the characters for the characters.

because they don't know.

Okay. So my guffin everybody.

Jonathan (42:18.858)
I defined it well enough to make a distinction.

I disagree with your usage of that word. Those words are not accepted.

as he swigs another vodka.

That's just coffee. The little vodka. Yeah. Anyway, great little chapter. I like it. Character wise, you get them bantering. That's always fun because of Kaladin's proclivities and then Shalan being Shalan. So great little setup. And now we have chapter 70. From a nightmare. Kaladin and Shalan flee as they are chased by a chasm fiend. Shalan chooses a path.

doesn't smell

Slava (43:01.206)
and orders Kaladin to follow her. They stop and Kaladin covers his Stormlight and he realizes that she lured the Chasm Fiend back to their original location to the fresh corpses for food. Shalan decides she wants to see the Chasm Fiend and get close to take a look as it fills the Chasm and has small glowing spren around it like the spren that follows

She'llan lets Kaladin lead, though he tries to keep track of where she is, and dwells on the Chasmfiend. She grows tired now that her Stormlight is drained. Kaladin says they should stop so they don't get lost and go in the wrong direction, and he wants to wait until daybreak to get their bearings.

Nom nom nom nom.

Slava (43:59.458)
They banter for a bit with less antagonism and Shallan sketches their path through the chasms in the form of a map which impresses Caledon because no light eyes can do anything right for him. Caledon wakes up after a short nap before daybreak and they set out when the sun rises. They think they are going in the right direction. They banter further with Shallan dishing out lighthearted insults while Caledon risks

resists the replying in kind unlike his earlier behavior. Kalden asks why Shalon came to the Shattered Plains and she becomes serious, replying that she was trying to continue Jasna's important research while she's away, and that Adaline was an added bonus. Kalden asks if she was there to investigate the strange structures that they saw and she tries to disassemble but

He sees through it and explains his original suspicions of her. She says that she wants the Parshmen exiled before they betrayed the Alethi, and he replies that they might be replaced with regular Alethi slaves and emphasizes with his former plight as a slave. Shalan tries to be light-hearted, but Kaladin will have none of it, though he tries not to argue either.

Good job, Kaladin.

Yep, Callum explains that he thinks she's a typical pampered sheltered light-eyes, which Shalon rephrases back as self-contradictory and convoluted, and that Callidan sees the flaws in his argument. Shalon tells Callidan that she won't harm the Colons and she is sincere in trying to prevent disaster, and Callidan accepts this.

Slava (45:55.608)
Kelden then checks their bearings and realizes they are going in the wrong direction.

Yeah, always going in the wrong direction, Cal.

We're all directionless Kelvin.

So when you were reading this, did you think Kaladin and Shalan were gonna find themselves in a twisted romance and Adolin was gonna have to fight him to the death?

No, but I did think that this was going to add complexity to the relationships. There might be some sort of affections as I've called them previously between Shallan and Kaladin. I don't think it's going to be a full on romance. I didn't think during the read of this chapter, nor do I think now there's going to be something serious between them. There might be some.

Slava (46:45.186)
complications, but I do not think right now, and I could be wrong, that they're going to be seriously involved, like romantically, because I don't see that as something Sanderson would put in, because it'd be very cliche. Now, if he draws it out and something develops in the next books, okay, yeah, maybe that would be great tension. Whatever happens will happen. But right now, currently,

not having read the subsequent books. And again, at the reading of the chapter, I'm like, maybe I didn't think they're like, you know, gonna kiss or something or, know, make love and chasm. Hump chulls. I don't think that was going to happen, but they're definitely getting friendlier and seeing a different side of the other, seeing that their perception of the other is wrong and seeing that they have a lot in common.

there's a possibility for some sort of romance but right now yeah maybe if it's done right i'm for it but if

Enemies become friends, friends become lovers.

Yeah, but if it's in some stupid movie-esque way where, gosh, the two survivors are stuck on a desert island and, you know, they hate each other and blame each other and then they, you know, end up stooping in the bushes. You're like, okay, great. Thanks, Hollywood. Because that happens all the time, every day.

Jonathan (48:11.564)
You just told us the rest of the books.

well there you have it folks.

These words are not accepted.

Yeah, but you can tell us, do they ever have anything beyond just a tension-filled liking for each other?

Nooo shdipping!

Slava (48:30.734)
All right. See? Good. Or your, your copacrifice grin tells me there might be something more.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (48:39.052)
Well, you know, Shalon has a propensity of making new personalities and those new personalities do what they want. So... Ooh!

that, that would be fun. If we're split personalities, we're split between Kaladin and Adolin. That would be amazing. You're silly as hell. That'd be silly as hell.

You're sick, Slava.

I am not sick, I am-

It's allergies. Yes.

Slava (49:07.02)
I'm not saying it's allergies. Moving What about you? Like, Calvin's your boy, right? What do you think of his little, whatever this is, his little escapade into the chasm as he's interacting here with Chalon? What were your original thoughts? I want to hear them because you keep asking me that and that's fair for the podcast and what we're doing specifically with Stormlight as I've dubbed it Slava Reacts. But your original thoughts, if you can think.

Yes.

Slava (49:36.514)
that far back. You're reading this first, second time, whatever, probably first time is the better question. What are your reactions to Kalim and Shalan bantering? And as we see in the subsequent chapters getting closer and understanding they have a similar past.

So I think that this was the third book that I read of Sanderson. was Warbreaker, Way of Kings, and then this, I believe, if I remember correctly. And it was curious. Like, I wasn't sure if he was going to have them be a love interest or not. I was more focused on whether or not Kaladin was going to lose his powers that he was getting and less concerned about whether or not they become a love interest because one of them

be short term because they both die eventually in terms of like, you know, humans have lifespans, not like a book reveal. like, sure love, whatever. But, more so does still leave Kaladin. And then if that's the case, because Sanderson at this point has done some plot twisty type things and he's always known for his St. Helenschras. And so like, I'm not sure if Kaladin's going to be taken away, know, like

He killed the Asna. He's killed other people, like.

Wait, Kaladin? How did he kill Yasno?

Jonathan (51:00.77)
No, no. Sanderson killed Yasunari.

right, gotcha.

Sanderson killed people in Warbreaker. And so I'm just like, I don't know what's going to happen, which was fun because oftentimes I feel like I do know it's going to happen and then it usually happens. So go me.

Yeah, I thought I thought that too. It was a brief thought I'm like does this mean that Cal loses still which he kind of does I kind of he does here in the following chapters So as I was seeing that unfold I was like, What will happen to this character who built him for one and a half books?

Yeah, do we just continue to follow him around powerless and he simply has his own? And the thing is he's a good soldier regardless of his power. Yeah. Like his power only just started in Way of Kings, but like we know that he was an excellent soldier and killed a Shardbearer before by himself.

Slava (51:57.676)
Yeah, so, and I didn't think that was gonna be the end of Calden as a character. Just like you said a second ago, is he gonna be part of the story now, but without the powers? Is he gonna take a different role? And I was like, okay, this is kind of fun. Right. I would follow him as a character even without those powers.

Yeah. And we know that in the Cosmere there's like other places to get power. So then the question is like, does Kaladin become a world hopper? Right? Like, that could be a fun adventure to follow where he's just going through the Cosmere and like saving people. Right? Like that could still be fun.

Yeah, absolutely. You see going to be like Vasher grumpy, angry, doing things, but doing the right things or so-called maybe. Yeah.

Right.

Jonathan (52:49.164)
Yep. Well, let's keep going here. Chapter 71, Vigil. Teft and Sigzal are in the war camp, sitting vigil for Kaladin, and Teft speaks of his childhood, of what his parents did as Invisagers. They knew things about the Radiance, and some Invisagers, including his parents, attempted suicidal stunts to see if they would manifest powers. And Teft ended up turning them in to the authorities who had them executed. Tough stuff.

Dalinar shows up and inquires about the vigil and Teff proclaims that Kaladin definitely survived despite falling into the chasms. Sig-Syl proclaims his belief in Kaladin's return and Dalinar just tells them not to overextend themselves or stay out during high storms, though the High Prince believes that Kaladin is dead. Kaladin feels like a fool for leading them in the wrong direction. He calls out for Syl but gets no answer. He also feels like a fool for the way he treats Shalan and for the incorrect assumptions he made about her.

He compliments Shalon on her drawing ability and she sketch sketches a more accurate map of the planes, though it is getting much sooner until the next high storm. She traces a couple of plateaus nearby by walking around them and Kaladin notices her having a mysterious conversation with someone and speculates that she might be a radiant talking to a sprint. Shalon says that some of the series of plateaus are mirror images of others and Kaladin says that the planes are symmetrical.

and that he knew that from a dream, Shalan says that she knows where the parshendi are and the oath gate and that she can map it all out since the plans were not a naturally forming pattern, but rather created through cymatics. They follow a revised path based on Shalan's map, though they have to periodically check their route, slowing down their escape. Kaladin occasionally shouts up from the chasm to try to get the attention of the Alethi Scouts, but no one answers.

Kaladin grows moody, as if he wasn't already, because he feels that he failed them. But Shalan tries to remain optimistic. Kaladin says he wished he could be like Shalan, but then Shalan describes how it is like to be depressed and hopeless, and he understands that she wasn't always happy. But she somehow muddles through anyway, which inspires him. They banter again with Shalan trying to improve Kaladin's mood, like she used to do with her brothers, and he goes along with their joke to an extent.

Jonathan (55:15.34)
The Chasm Fiend shows up again and they try to flee. Hiding in narrow fissures, the Chasm Fiend fails to reach them, but it then settles nearby to wait as the Ice Storm is rapidly approaching with about two hours left before it reaches them. Kaladin decides to try to distract the Chasm Fiend to allow Shalan to escape back to the war camps with her vital information. He prepares to die to the death and tells Shalan to apologize to Aedlin on his behalf. Shalan says that before he goes to fight,

to take her sharp blade, which I'm sure shocked Kaladin because women aren't allowed to have sharp blades in this society, but previous radiance were women. So tracks. Yeah.

That tracks. But yeah, here we have Calvin wanting to be like Shalon, which.

Who doesn't? Multiple personalities? that's what you meant.

sounds f**king awesome. Yes, that's what I meant. Despite her multiple person- there's just more of her to love.

Jonathan (56:12.59)
yeah i try that with your wife let me know how it goes

Ask her to get more personalities?

No, you be the, anyway, or.

Tell her that I have a crush on a fictional character.

All of the above? I mean, we did talk about your thought versions of Shallan on my mid-journey account. I want you to show me a busty redhead who's just been washed up from a shipwreck.

Slava (56:27.309)
We did.

Slava (56:33.336)
That was your prompt.

Can do, bud!

Babongo? No. Shallon here is showing Kaladin that despite having a difficult life, you don't have to walk around in a malaise all your life, just hating everything and everybody and grumbling like a, like a moash. Cause nobody is going to Who likes- Just fine. Nobody likes him. My mom? Bridgman. Your mom, yes. Your mom would like Kaladin too, apparently. I don't know what that means. No, seriously. Great.

Why not? like you. People like me just fine.

Jonathan (57:01.966)
Well, I don't know about that.

Slava (57:05.87)
chapter, I like the fact that Keldon is shedding some of his armor, no pun intended, with Shallan's little banter and her jokes. And yes, this is a bit of a trauma response or a trauma muscle memory for her, where just like with her brothers, she's trying to lighten the mood. But this is good. This is a good thing. What she was doing with her brothers was also a good thing in a terrible situation.

So, Shallan trying to lighten the situation, bring some levity to it is great. And the fact that Kaladin is slowly responding to it positively, I also liked a lot. So, for me, very fun chapter to read.

Anything stick out to you about Shalon's revelation in terms of the Shattered Planes? And Kaladin's like, I had a dream about this. And then Shalon going, Eureka! I've figured it out.

Yes and no. Yes, it was a fun reveal that there's something about the shattered plains with the chasms that's not natural, right? It wasn't caused by the storms. It wasn't caused by any earthquake or some sort of phenomena like that, but there is a pattern to them. They're symmetrical or something or the opposite. You know, they're inverted images of each other, the different, different chasms. That was fun. The dream thing.

I forgot about that completely and missed it as I read when you were given as a summary. was like, yeah, I think that's right. Well, it has to be right because it's in the summary, I just completely forgot about it. That's more now that I'm thinking about it, that's more of a reveal that he's a radiant or should have been a reveal to her that he's a radiant under something special about him. But the big reveal, the big fun part of this chapter in second place to their little banter I just mentioned.

Slava (59:00.334)
is her figuring out there's a pattern to the chasms. I thought that was pretty cool. And then we have, oh, and the oath gate. What the hell is an oath gate? Where's the oath gate?

Yeah, what is, what do you think an oath gate is?

What do I think an oath gate is? Good question. So an oath gate based on my research, it's just a big old powerful favorite, Fabriel.

thing, a portal, and so you can go between cities. It's kind like a safe point or a fast travel point.

A save point of Festra. Yeah, mean, basically, and then if you take just the term oathgate, radiance are the ones who use them. Yes. Right. They're the ones who use them, so.

Slava (59:47.214)
Take out.

Slava (59:50.862)
So they're located in plateaus or in circularly shaped plateaus,

I they have to be created. I don't think we actually have an answer on that, but I think that they have to be created. Like, Oathgates were created at one point. Like, built.

Right, where they're located, I'm saying where they're located, they're usually located around symmetrical plateaus or plateaus of some kind.

There's only one oath gate in the Shattered Plains, and it's at Eurithiru, wherever that is.

Right, but there's other oathgates in the world, correct?

Jonathan (01:00:27.51)
Yes, but they're not in circular spaces necessarily because there are only one shattered planes. Like they're in cities and things.

Okay. All right. Maybe. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. You know more, but. Both gates, big old powerful Fabrioles for people specifically nights radiant to use.

Mm-hmm for fast travel and save points Yeah Well, yeah, I just said that that's that's a fine way to say it funny but fine

Yes. Am I anywhere close?

Slava (01:00:59.598)
Okay. Well there we go. Look at me, saying funny things.

Mm-hmm.

So as we move on, Chapter 72 Selfish Reasons.

dodging around it and leading it away from Shalan. He uses the confined space of the chasm to his advantage and cuts the beast a couple of times, but then gets bitten in the leg as he tries to evade an attack. Shalan distracts the beast and he is able to retrieve the sharp blade but then collapses from pain. He picks up the sphere, tries to drain the stormlight, but only hears distant weeping.

He sees an illusion of himself that distracts the beast momentarily before it vanishes in a puff of stormlight, which he somehow thinks that he created. He decides he has to go for the beast's head and stabs it as the jaws reach for him. Shalan, on the other hand, sees the beast fall on top of Kaladin and notices spren around the chasm fiend seeming to leave it. Kaladin's body protrudes from the creature's mouth

Slava (01:02:34.422)
and she tries to pull him out of it as he says ow. They banter as she uses her blade to cut him free and then explains that he stabbed the chasm fiend in the brain to kill it. Once free, Kal'dan asks her to bind his leg for him which she does. They take a brief rest and, despaired of the storm, will get them anyway. Kal'dan then realizes that Shalan could use the sharp blade to cut out

a little cubby hole above the waterline in the chasm for them to hide from the storm and the flood waters. She climbs up the dead fiend, then changes her blade to be knife-size and carves handholds in the chasm to climb above the waterline to carve a shelter for them. They banter as Shalon cuts the rock and it takes about an hour for her to finish.

She uses a vine to help Calvin climb up to the safe spot just before the flood reaches them.

more harrowing moments for Kaladin. It never ends, always the hero.

Yep, it never ends.

Slava (01:03:45.655)
Never the bride.

Yes, always the hero, never the bride. That's what I was going to say. I like how Sanderson lets us live in the beliefs of the characters thinking like, I must have created an illusion. But then Kaladin's also fighting with the fact that he has lost Syl basically.

I got you, brother.

Slava (01:04:07.822)
Yeah, killed her. Good thing that the people around Cal really care about the greater good and Cal in particular, so still, and so back with him, but it's a good for him to stew right now.

Yeah.

Jonathan (01:04:20.91)
except for Moash. Touche. Yeah, I don't have a whole lot more thoughts here except for the harrowing adventure of being in the chasms during a high storm sounds pretty awful. It's like camping, but worse.

It's just like camping.

in the rain. You ever. Sucks is awful. Yeah. Sweaty, chill, bumping.

Yeah, I've camped

Slava (01:04:44.6)
That's an abdiscretion of camping. But as we move on to chapter 73, a thousand scurrying creatures, all for Balot to destroy. Not actual title, but it's a working title for the new. Yeah, it's for the third printing.

Mmm.

Jonathan (01:04:59.63)
Is that subtitle that you made up?

For the third printing. okay. Great. Shalan and Juxiu are in Balat's room helping him prepare to leave. They talk about the valuable deposits of stone recently found on their land and how they find it strange to be wealthy all of a sudden. Despite the family's wealth, their father's mood has continued to grow darker. Shalan unfolds and reads a letter. Their contacts haven't been able to find Helleran, who seems to have disappeared. Balat is jumpy, worried about that their father will discover that he intends to leave.

His plan is to escape with Elita and if he can't find Helleran, they'll go to High Prince Valum and Redden, who years ago told them he'd listened to anyone willing to testify against their father. Jushu is skeptical, saying that their father is in favor now and that the High Prince is nearly dead. Wickham slams the door open, telling them that Elita is in the feast hall and that their father has summoned her. Balot and Wickham rush to find what is happening. Shalon follows slowly, overwhelmed with panic, but she feels

pulled forward. Somehow she knows that this has been coming, that it was inevitable. She collects the pouch of blackbane that Wickham had given her years ago and heads downstairs. Balat is arguing with their father about Elita. Lin reveals that he knows about their plan to leave. Shalon enters the room and walks along the walls toward the kitchen. She notices something on the floor blocking the kitchen doors from closing. Lin tells them that Helleran is dead.

He died on the battlefield in Alacar. Shalan reaches for the bundle on the floor and realizes it's a body. It is Malay's. She'd been killed by several blows to the head. Shalan concludes that he discovered their plan, sent for Elita, and waited for her to arrive and then killed his wife. It was calculated punishment, not committed in a moment of passion. She moves to where servants had left a pitcher of wine with cups. Balot unsheathes his sword, followed by Lin.

Jonathan (01:07:00.674)
They clash brutally and Lin is able to swat Balat's sword out of his hand. Lin tells them that he always despised Balat and of his sons only Helleran wasn't worthless. Shalan hands him a cup of wine, which he gulps down. Balat grabs his sword and tries to stab their father, but hits something metallic through his coat, which stops the blade. Lin tosses his sword aside and gets an iron poker from the fireplace.

Now shut up.

Jonathan (01:07:30.006)
He slams it into Balot's leg over and over berating him about being useless. Lynn's hands start shaking and the poker slips to the ground. Lynn is surprised and he stumbles and falls to his knees and then his side. Shalon, feeling cold, tells Elita to bind Balot's wounds, then kneels next to her father. Lynn is motionless, staring at the ceiling after her brother's initial confusion. Shalon tells them that she poisoned her father by placing the black vein in the wine.

Jushu pulls a Soulcaster out of Lin's pocket, which he had apparently been broken while blocking Balat's first strike. Just then, their father starts twitching and his eyes focus on Chalon. She realizes that the poison has only paralyzed him and says that they need to finish the job. Everyone else shies away, so she thanks her father for everything he did for her, then wraps her necklace around his neck. She twists the necklace around

the handle of a fork for leverage, crying and whispering the lullaby that he'd sung to her in comfort as a child as he dies.

Still like your girl, huh?

I love my girl. Hey, listen man, just because somebody holds the title of father doesn't mean he deserves it or is worthy of life.

Jonathan (01:08:48.318)
I'm not gonna go down this road with you.

I have no sympathies.

I'm not defending him. I'm just, I don't think killing someone is always the, you know, the best, the best options. I'm not saying he doesn't quote unquote deserve.

Shalon doesn't go around killing people willy nilly. Don't be smirch Shalon's name. She just kills random people all the time. I was bringing her wind of truth, rid of them of war, Shalon is just on a killing spree. She...

creates a persona like Zeth and just starts assassinating people. Like that. Yeah, yeah. But no, this was a pretty heavy, and this is a pretty heavy chapter. And the thing is, Sanderson splits these up for us and gives us snippets here and there. Honestly, probably so we don't have to handle it all at the same time. And it's better storytelling to give us moments of heroism and then like, also Shalon. Like we get it, girl, we get it.

Slava (01:09:25.91)
I'm fine. I would like that.

Slava (01:09:49.473)
Yep. No heavy chapter, really good chapter. Nice reveal for lack of better term. There's a different term that I'm thinking of, but it's not coming to me. It gives more depth to Shalon's character and what she's feeling and why she's splitting personalities, why there's so much heavy trauma that she's carrying in and how that, that, that burden is.

like breaking her or has broken her in some sense already. So like you said, you get these moments of Shalana. yeah, she killed her mom. She didn't know she killed her mom. It wasn't planned and it wasn't in the moment of passion. She just didn't know the power she had. And so she kills her mom. But here you get a greater sense of that burden that I just mentioned because as she's in the chasm with Kaladin.

And she just cut out a little cubby hole for them. They're cowering away from the storm. And here you have a memory of this dark event, this horrible event that happened to the family and to her. And that's when she learns about Halloran's death. It's when she witnesses the death of her stepmother or discovers her dead body, Lynn going all nuts. And the fibro was broken here. So you get a lot.

of reveals all in one heavy, heavy chapter.

100%. You ever been st- You ever been stabbed with a- iron brand poker? So you've blocked it out. Fair enough.

Slava (01:11:22.488)
Stab? No.

Slava (01:11:26.847)
Not to my memory now.

Yeah. I've stabbed myself once by mistake. You know that knife that's used for deboning meat? It's a really thin, really sharp knife. has a bent to it. I was playing around with it when I was a kid and stabbed myself in the leg with one.

Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (01:11:47.769)
So you have been stabbed in the leg before, just not an iron poker.

Yeah. And that was me stabbing myself like an idiot because I was just putzing around throwing a knife around pretending I was, I don't know, Johnny knife hands and that myself, but I was a child. it's different than Milan getting his legs stabbed with an actual poker.

Right, right. Fair enough.

Jonathan (01:12:07.063)
Right.

my gosh. Yeah. Chapter 74, Striding the Storm. Kaladin reaches the sheltered alcove just before the floodwaters arrived. He and Shalan huddled together against the rock as the waters quickly rise. Momentarily cresting over the edge of the carved out cubby, Kaladin tells Shalan how he was left to die in the high storm by Sadius. Kal looks up and thinks he sees a giant glowing figure followed by another figure walking in the storm.

Shallan asks Kal to tell his story as a means of taking their mind off the high storm. And he starts from when he was made a slave by Amoram and speaks of his slavery and to Vlachov. His time with Bridge 4 and the rescue of Dalinar and fighting the Parshendi Shardbearer. He hears chanting and sees strange Spren flying around. After he finishes his story, Shallan says she killed her father and tells about how her mother died and what her life was.

was like when she was a child. Kaladin realizes how much he had in common with her since her parents weren't abusive. He realizes that her brother was the sharbrayer he killed when he saved Amorim, but doesn't reveal that fact to her. She tells of her original plan to steal the Soulcaster from Jasna and becoming her ward and Adolin's betrothed instead. Shalan vanishes and Kaladin realizes that he is having a vision. Kaladin sees a giant face and addresses it as Stormfather and is called

child of honor in return. Cal asks if Shalon is a radiant and gets a rumble in return. Cal asks about Silfrenna and the Stormfather says that Kaladin killed her and that she can't be brought back to life since he is now broken.

Slava (01:13:49.464)
She is now broken.

Same, same. He also declares that Cal will never ride his winds again and then says goodbye as the vision ends. Shallan says she also saw the face of the vision, which Cal identifies as the Stormfather. After the storm subsides, they fall asleep. You know, it's gotta be equal. Shallan shares something traumatizing. Cal has something traumatizing happen to him in front of Shallan. Same, same.

Now, now, it's like a poker than a knee.

But with water made ice poker, wind, rain, I'm going to stop now.

snowball to the nuts.

Jonathan (01:14:27.66)
also doesn't feel good, especially when you put a little water on it, it becomes ice ball.

I was gonna say put a rock in it, but yeah, same, same.

all of the above.

So a good chapter to end on. was, as with the previous one, a little dark. We would get more, well, we don't, we know the story. Shalon gets this story from Kaladin and I don't think it's explicitly said that Shalon goes, yeah, we kind of like, but I think this grows them together. For Kaladin, this is really good because he he realizes that a light eyes can also have problems and have a terrible life.

and a hard burden to carry despite being a light eye. So it's not just all.

Jonathan (01:15:10.518)
She doesn't need to depressed at all hours of the day.

And she doesn't need to be depressed at all hours of the day. She actually is dealing with her. I'll just keep using the word burden. She's dealing her burden and her past a lot more healthily right now, at least later on with the split personalities. Maybe that's not the healthiest way, but here for Kaladin sake, he gets to see, wow. People with difficult pasts can move past it. Can move on.

Mm-hmm.

and can lead normal lives and still have a cause and a mission and fulfill them and you know, all the stuff that you usually bring up when you say, Hey, there's only one way out of a pit and it's to start climbing up, paraphrasing some of your words. So this is a good little thing for a Kaladin to witness.

It's true. It's true. I don't have a whole lot of other notes on that. If you want to take us home with that last, with chapter 75 as we wrap down the episode, then we'll pause our journey on Roshar for this week and we will return again next week.

Slava (01:16:17.518)
Sounds good, so chapter 75, True Glory. We are now in the point of view of Dalinar. Emoram implores Dalinar to speak with Sadius and make peace with him before they begin their expedition. Dalinar looks at Navani but doesn't reply. They hear horns which announce the sighting of a chrysalis and its location. And Dalinar says they won't go after it on the way to the Prashendi camp.

Amoram says that Sadius will go after it on his own, and that his disobedience is causing rifts in the kingdom to grow worse. Amoram says the Voidbringers are coming and they need to be united, but Dalinar says the time and opportunity to work together with Sadius has long passed. Amoram tries to dissuade Dalinar from his expedition and says that even Dalinar won't listen to him anymore, so why should anybody else? Dalinar replies,

that he has to go out to seek the answers. Dallinor asks about Amram's investigation into the madman. Amram replies the madman was deluded about having a sharp blade. A messenger runs up saying that Stormblest has returned from the chasms. Dallinor runs the entire way to the triage area where Kaladin is receiving medical attention. Kaladin stands with great effort to salute him despite being told not to.

Dalinar asks how he survives and Kaladin says he is unsure but Spren were involved. Kaladin also indicates that he has brought Shalan safely back and that he also killed a Chasmfiend that had been prowling nearby and presents its large glowing green gem heart to Dalinar. Shalan contradicts him and says that the Chasmfiend was already dead and rotting before they harvested and Kaladin confirms this story but Dalinar suspects that

both are lying. Navani appears and becomes protective of Shalan after the ordeal. Kaladin implores Dalinar to speak with Shalan of her discoveries before Dalinar leaves for his expedition. Dalinar tells Kaladin that Bridge 4 held a vigil for him with the confidence that he would return, and he asks if Kaladin had been the person that he was searching for. Kaladin replies that he once was but no longer is.

Slava (01:18:43.776)
and Dalinar grunts in response. He orders that any demands of Kaladin's are to be met as he is a hero yet again. Dalinar wonders where Amoram went and decides to speak with Shalan. Shalan is resting in bed, accepting Navani's unexpected affection. Pattern repeats a conversation he heard between Dalinar and Navani when he was sent to spy on them. Notably,

Dalnor wants Shalon to go on the expedition but Navani tries to protect Shalon by having her stay behind. Shalon tells Pattern that she has to go and ask if she is a radiant. He replies most likely not since she has more to do first but isn't sure because he hasn't always been sentient. Pattern tells of the recreants when most Bren except the stone father and a few others were killed.

caused by broken oats, Pattern thinks that the chance to learn is worth the possibility of dying again. Pattern says that Shalan spoke the words, but she lacks truth. Adolin appears and embraces her in a hug and kisses her. He says he was visiting all the high princes, delivering an ultimatum to join Dalinor or be labeled as someone who has refused to fulfill the vengeance pact. Shalan says she saw a

dead chasm fiend and wants to draw it for him. Adeline apologizes for rescuing his father instead of her and promises to protect her but she says she doesn't need protecting and that she will never be something to be locked away again. she doesn't elaborate on when she was previously locked away. Dalinor and Navani enter. Dalinor has a request but Shalan anticipating it

asked to go on expedition despite the dangers. Since she thinks the ancient city that Jasna was searching for is there. Dahlner asks her to expand on the map of the Shattered Plains and she agrees. Shalan also requests that they leave the Parshin behind since Jasna felt they were dangerous. Dahlner says you will do so and they are leaving within an hour.

Jonathan (01:21:01.326)
So this was a difficult chapter for me when I first read it, specifically the line where Dalinar leans in and he goes, are you the one I've been looking for? And Kaladin replies, I was once, but I'm no longer. And Kaladin just has to admit he could have been, he could have been that guy, but he chose not to be. And Kaladin is like split on this path of being just as bad as the light eyes are. The people that he actually hates, he's choosing to be like them.

Yeah.

Jonathan (01:21:31.498)
in his bitterness, anger, and whatever if he decides to go through in helping kill the king.

Very good lesson for Calvin. It's not rank or cast that makes you a good person or a bad person. It's how you act and what you do, how you live your life.

I Kaladin secretly read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl.

How do you get that copy?

Frickin' hoi, of course it's hoi.

Slava (01:21:58.861)
it was like, I got a story for you. It's about a guy named Victor.

who also goes to his version of a bridge camp. Four of them. And he's not running bridges.

He does go to a camp. Bridge four, four camps. It's all, the connections are there if you look for him.

That's right. That's right. man. Any final thoughts on this chapter? We know Amoram is being slimy in some way.

That's par for the course. No, no other thoughts though. Good chapter for the reason that you mentioned. I also like that Shalon stands her ground again as she's been learning to do more and more. Like she asked at every turn almost. I understand the response is a little silly from her. Adeline's not patronizing her or trying to handle her like a delicate little teacup.

Jonathan (01:22:46.914)
Yeah, he's trying to be chivalrous. Yeah.

However, it's a understandable response from Shalon and I don't think it's done in any sort of obnoxious way. like, I don't eat no man. She was just like, listen, great. Thank you. But part of my thing, part of my journey is I don't need the type of protection you're offering. Cause she kind of sees that this might turn into her being put somewhere in a cupboard to away from all the bad stuff. And she knows that she doesn't need or want that on all the levels.

personally, psychologically, emotionally, and also she has this fricking thing to do. Find out where this oath stone is, continue Jasen's research, save the world. You know, I don't know if she's thinking about it in that grandiose of terms, but she has a mission to do and she doesn't need Adolin stopping her from it because he's afraid.

Right. Yeah, that's all true. Well, exciting stuff. That ends today's chapters on Roshar for Words of Radiance, part seven. Stay tuned next time where we come back to Roshar next week and discuss interludes, the next three interludes, chapters 76 through 82 in part eight of Words of Radiance. And stay tuned for the recap episode as part 10.

where we have Spencer, JT, and Casey join us again. As a note to the audience, Casey and JT have for the first time read Words of Radiance. And so they will come with similar knowledge to Slava, where they don't really know what's going on in terms of the Kotsmir, which will be fun. I'm also going to try and get a buddy of mine to join us. I don't know if he's too busy, but we will see.

Slava (01:24:32.558)
As always, thank you for being here with us. Make sure to like and subscribe, share this episode. We're also going to ask you guys to rate the show on Apple and Spotify or wherever you're listening. That helps us get in front of more people so we can grow this book club together. And until next time, stay salty.

Day...cathemy? Happy Feending?

We'll see you next time guys.