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What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers, ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team and systems, mastering money issues, and more; then take an insight or two to help you build a wealth-generating law firm? That’s what we do each week on the Wealthy Woman Lawyer podcast. Hosted by Davina Frederick, founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer –– every episode is an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve (and will pay you on time), and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love. The goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund, and still have time to enjoy, the lifestyle of your dreams.
Welcome to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer podcast. What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers? Ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team, and systems, mastering money issues, and more. Then take an insight or 2 to help you build a wealth generating law firm. Each week, your host, Devina Frederick, takes an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve and will pay you on time, and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love.
Intro:Devina is founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer, and her goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund and still have time to enjoy the lifestyle of your dreams. Now, here's Devina.
Davina:Hi, everyone. And welcome back to the wealthy woman lawyer podcast. I'm your host, Devina Frederick. And my guest today is Janet Faulk. Janet is a communications professional with more than 30 years experience in house as a consultant and at public relations agencies.
Davina:As chief strategist of Faulk Communications and Research, she advises attorneys at solo and small law firms on media relations and marketing communications, helping them learn how to attract new clients, remain top of mind with prior clients, keep in touch with referral sources, help recruit associates, generate a new story about litigation that puts pressure on opposing counsel and achieve business goals. Janet leads workshops on these topics and advises on media relations, websites, LinkedIn profiles, articles in non legal industry trade publications and client newsletters, among other areas. She has published articles on media relations and marketing in the New York Law Journal, the New Jersey Law Journal and Marketing, the law firm. And she is a frequent speaker on webinars and podcasts about public relations, networking and legal marketing. Janet has been a guest on the wealthy woman lawyer podcast before, but it's been a couple of years.
Davina:And today I wanted to talk with her about a very specific topic. So please join me in welcoming Janet Falk to the wealthy woman lawyer podcast. So welcome, Janet. It's good to see you again. It's good to have you back on the wealthy woman lawyer podcast.
Janet:Divina, I'm excited to be here and catch up with you and continue to speak to your audience.
Davina:Good. Good. So today, you and I specifically are gonna talk a lot about, conferences because during the pandemic, nobody was going to conferences, but now there seems to be, like, not only a resurgence, but, actually, a lot of people can't wait to go to conferences. And so you and I are gonna sort of talk about some tips that you have for that. But before we get into that, if you could share a little bit I've I shared in your bio some of your background, but I know it's rich and it's deep, and you help clients in a lot of ways.
Davina:You've been doing this for 30 years now.
Speaker 3:No. I've been in public relations for more than 30 years. Yes. But, but working as a solopreneur, working with attorneys and business owners and consultants, I I've been doing that for the past 15 years.
Davina:Yeah. And tell me what it is that you because you and I, we've talked before. I know you kind of specialize in working with attorneys. You do a lot of work with attorneys. So tell me what it is that sort of draws you to the legal crowd and what it is you like about working with them.
Speaker 3:Okay. I have to say that my last full time job was representing a law firm, one of the MLaw 50 firms. And so I thought, well, let me see if I can continue this even though it was, you know, January 2009 and the height of the financial crisis and and so on. I like working with attorneys because, first of all, they're smart and they always have ideas about something and they're able to express their ideas. But sometimes, they express their ideas in what we might politely call legalese.
Speaker 3:And it doesn't always take into account who is the audience, who needs to hear this information, and what is the motivation of this audience. And my I view my view of presenting a source to a reporter is to say, you know, this person has specific insights and if only the world knew what Devina and Janet know, they would save time, save money, and make more money. Now the Right. The first part of my career was on Wall Street. So you can see where time and money are really priorities for me.
Speaker 3:Right. So I'm looking for opportunities where I can introduce my clients to reporters and, you know, and to their targeted audiences so that their ideas can be put to the test about how they would help someone else to in their personal life, if you're a trust and estates or a matrimonial law or cuss you know, family law attorney, or in their professional life, how they can be saving time, saving money, and making more money. And there's a variety of ways to do this. 1, of course, is talking to the media. But in order to do that, you have to represent yourself on your website and on your LinkedIn platform as someone who is an authoritative resource.
Speaker 3:So that's another thing that I help with my my clients is I help them to polish their website, polish their LinkedIn profile, so that they will be seen as the source who can address this vital issue that people need to know more about so that they can improve their business or or improve their personal life.
Davina:Right. Right. I think PR has changed a lot through the years, through the decades. Right? It's it's it's really expanded into something a little bit broader.
Davina:It used to be that, smaller firms didn't really have access to PR firms because or didn't have access because, you know, we just couldn't afford to hire someone to represent us in the media. And now we have so many ways to get visible and get out there. Have you sort of seen these shifts and and how has PR evolved through the ages?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Definitely. You know, social media and the ability of an individual to step into the spotlight, you know, has made a big difference. It's much more crowded now. It's very hard to get a reporter's attention.
Speaker 3:It's very hard to get almost anyone's attention because there's so much activity taking place whether it's on Twitter x or or on TikTok or Instagram or on the old standbys of LinkedIn and Facebook. So, that's one thing that I find very challenging is helping clients to stand out in these very crowded platforms so that they will indeed be connecting with the people who need to hear what it is that they have to say. I wanna point out that, you don't have to be on every single platform. You have to be where your audience is looking for information. But that may require that you be on more than one platform and that you be there consistently and, you know, providing information that will have a bottom line impact.
Davina:I remember I that's so true. And I remember back when I was in public relations in the in the nineties, earned media was something that was not accessible and available to a lot of people, earned media being a reporter, putting you know, writing an article and quoting you and and you getting out there for those who don't know what earned media is. And and tell me, do you think that that has still the same cache that it used to, or does it even more? Because so many of your people are able to sort of self publish, but still getting that earned media is something that is, a challenge for a lot of people. What do you see as far as how that plays out now?
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's definitely a challenge because as I said, you know, many more people are promoting themselves and, you know, wanting to be seen in the press. On the other hand, what we find is, excuse me, reporters are under assault. They are driven to, you know, produce stories in very short order and the stories have to be clickable. That is they have to attract readers.
Speaker 3:And you don't have as many stories where you have a third party opining on what is the situation. Basically, you have he said, you have she said, and they are not they're not given the the latitude. The reporters aren't given the latitude to abide a third objective party to be able to opine on, you know, well, this is what the context is and and this is what this means. And, you know, the news hall is getting smaller. There's competition from online services and there's a drop in advertising.
Speaker 3:So, you know, newspapers are shrinking, local newspapers are being eliminated or they're being aggregated by private equity firms that are, you know, squeezing them. It's a very difficult time to be getting the attention of a reporter who will talk about what it is that you're presenting regarding the client and that it will actually be seen. Now, the good thing about, the online environment is that it lives forever. So you can get a news story and it's not as if it's going to disappear. Right?
Speaker 3:Because the new story is going to live online even as the print edition is being pulped and, you know, recycled. That doesn't work quite so well with broadcast because not everything that's broadcast on television is in fact made available on the Internet. So, even though it might be exciting and very sexy to be on TV news, it's not gonna have the same long term effect of being accessible as a print publication, newspaper, magazine, and so on.
Davina:Right. Right. You probably can get, a record of it from the station or whatever that you can then sort of, you know, put it on your website and put it out places and share it, which from that standpoint, that's also something that's kind of new and, you know, relatively new. Right? The ability to share to get something and share it on social media and continue to have something live on.
Davina:You know? Right.
Speaker 3:Right. But, you know, that works for people who already know about you, who are already know about the topic and are looking for that. Mhmm. Right? Whereas if someone is a subscriber to a newspaper, then they're reading it in print or they're reading the magazine online, and so that gives additional, reach, I guess.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Additional reach, you know, additional life, basically basically, that to that news story or to that news article or or even an opinion piece or a column that you you may have contributed. So it's a it's a little bit different between, you know, who's looking for information, where are they looking for information, what do they already know about the subject. Right? And that's going to make a difference in how how long it's gonna take the reader to surface whatever it is that you want them to see.
Speaker 3:Right. Right.
Davina:And so you part of a big part of what you do is you help your clients develop sort of a strategy based on their practice area, their geographic location as to, you know, how should we approach this. It's not a one size fits all deal. Right? No. It can't be.
Speaker 3:Mm-mm. They can't be because they're dealing with different audiences.
Davina:Right. Right. So let's shift gears a little bit because I wanna talk about conferences. I we I know we only have a limited period of time, and there's many things I could talk to you about because I love talking about PR marketing. But I wanna talk about this, conferences because I'm seeing a lot more of my colleagues out there going to conferences, getting excited about it, traveling to different things.
Davina:And, I know that you have a lot of good advice for people because there's one of the things that we hear all the time, and that is, you know, I hate networking or I don't know how to network or I don't know. And I think the big key, you have a an ebook that we're gonna share in the show notes that's, see the I wanna make sure I get the title right. It's, how to connect at conferences. You have 25 ideas to help us connect at conferences. Tell us first why you think it's important to sort of plan ahead and think about how you're going to connect at conferences.
Speaker 3:I think the first thing you should consider is what are your goals in going to a conference? Because if you wanna get an update on the law or on a particular industry that your clients are active in, if you wanna learn from the speaker, if you want to earn your CLEs, you can do that from the comfort of your own home or office. You don't have to be traveling to Vegas to do something like that. The reason you wanna go to conferences is because you want to have that personal interaction. You wanna keep in touch with your contacts.
Speaker 3:You wanna be in touch with your referral sources. You want to get closer to the speaker. And you wanna be able to meet new people. You wanna be able to meet people who could be potential clients or who could be referral sources, who could collaborate with you in some way. And sometimes, you know, you're a busy attorney and you just wanna take a break and go to Vegas or Miami or Los Angeles.
Speaker 3:I mean, you know, who doesn't enjoy going to those places? Right. Right. So so if you're going to get an update on the law and learn from the speaker and earn your CLEs, which you could do at home, then you have to be, you know, prepared to interact in a certain way. But if you're planning to keep up with your contacts, people that were at your previous firm or a lapsed client or a referral source or you wanna meet new people, then you really have to set the stage and prepare in advance.
Speaker 3:Because those people are coming to the conference with their own agenda, which may not include meeting new contacts like like yourself or catching up with old contacts like yourself. Now one resource that I find is really underutilized is, say, say, you're going to a bar association meeting. You have a directory of the members, and you can look in that directory and you can identify people who you used to know and have, you know, gotten out of touch with or who served on a bar association committee with you, or they might be attorneys whose practice aligns with yours, but in a different way. So saying you do residential real estate, you wanna meet matrimonial attorneys. Right?
Speaker 3:Because when people get divorced, there's usually some real estate transaction involved. Someone's gonna keep the house or someone's gonna sell the vacation home or or or something on that order. So going through the directory, you can identify people that you want to connect with or reconnect with, whether they're prospective clients or labs clients or referral sources. You can identify people from your same state or from your same city that you want to get to know while you're both out of town, traveling and going to this event. And it may also be that you are looking for ways that you can be recruiting potential laterals to join your firm.
Speaker 3:Right? So you might be looking for people who went to the same law school as you or people who previously worked at a firm where you were working and so on. And all of this information is in the membership directory. So that is one place and I think it's definitely underutilized. Once you have identified these people, then get in touch with them and say, I'm going to the such and such conference at, you know, at this hotel and I'm looking forward to meeting you.
Speaker 3:Let's find a way that we can connect. Right? So you get in touch with them and you set the stage so that when you're there, you already have a reason to get together. Right? You wanna rehash all times, you wanna talk about how you can be helpful to each other in growing your practices, and so on.
Speaker 3:So that's one thing that you can do. If your goal is to develop new contacts and to reconnect with old contacts, then use the directory as a way of identifying these people and reach out to them in advance so that you already have an agenda of people that you're going to to meet with. Does that make sense? Absolutely.
Davina:And I think it's, I think it's wonderful because a lot of people, by not taking that step and not planning up some meetings ahead of time, they get there and then they kinda wander around and not know because they haven't they haven't made any appointments or arrangements or cocktails or happy hours with people. One of the things I see is I often see in Facebook groups, because I'm in a lot of lawyer Facebook groups, people saying, hey. Who is going to this conference? So some people get to meet their Facebook friends that they've never met in person before that they've developed a networking relationship through Facebook, but they've never met them in person. I find conferences are a great way to do that to sort of that reinforcement and meeting it's like meeting an old friend when you meet somebody you've engaged with on Facebook for years.
Davina:So I love using the directory and sort of planning some things out, seeing who's gonna be there that you know. I also you had a great tip about appearance. And I know that there's a that this is a kind of an outlier sort of thing, but I thought it was a good tip where you talked about how it's how you might wanna wear something that causes you to stand out. So I think that would really kind of, like, be a surprising thought to a lot of lawyers because lawyers tend to wear the blue suit, you know Yeah. Very be very staid.
Davina:And so tell me about that. Like, where did you I mean, how did you sort of come up with that idea?
Speaker 3:Okay. So I work in public relations. I have a little more latitude than people who have to show up in court in a dark suit. But even with a dark suit, you know, a man can wear a green tie or an orange tie, which is, you know, very distinctive and will stand out. Or a man can have a colored pocket square, and that too will be attention grabbing.
Speaker 3:A woman, if she's not gonna wear, a a royal blue jacket, which I'll tell a story about that in a minute, you know, can wear a colored scarf, and drape it over her jacket or drape it over her dress and and so on. So I think that, you know, within the boundaries of a professional appearance, you can wear a dark suit with a splash of color that will stand out. And I'm gonna tell the famous story of the royal blue jacket. I was going to speak at the New Jersey State Bar Association and the small firm and solo professional section, and I didn't know anyone who was gonna be at that event. I couldn't find out any information about who was going to who were the leaders of the of the group.
Speaker 3:So what I did was I went through the agenda, and I contacted all the other speakers in advance. And I said, I'm going to this event, and I'm gonna be speaking, and I'm looking forward to going to your session. Of course, if they were simultaneous with my session, I would say, you know, something different. And I'd like and I hope to meet you there. And I would say I got about a 75% return from the other speakers saying, oh, Janet, thank you for writing to me.
Speaker 3:Yes. I'm looking forward to your session as well. And so and so now I wrote back to them a second time, and I said, I'm so glad to hear from you. And by the way, I will be wearing a royal blue jacket because I knew that partly anybody else was gonna be wearing royal blue.
Davina:Right.
Speaker 3:On the day of the conference, I go to the 2 morning sessions, and I'm in the ballroom where there are 600 attorneys having buffet lunch. And do you know, Davina, 4 people found me in that crowded ballroom and came over to me and said, Joanne, I found you. I'm so glad to meet you. And we, you know, we talked about their session if I had gone to it and, you know, and so on and so forth. And one of those was a mutual contact, Elise Halslett.
Speaker 3:And she is a blue jacket. So if you can't wear a royal blue jacket, my royal blue jacket. So if you can't wear a royal blue jacket or another color, you have to wear a dark suit, then, you know, as a woman, wear a colored scar. And as a man, wear a different color tie or pocket square. And that way, people will notice you in a crowded room, and they will be able to find you.
Davina:Right. That's a wonderful tip. And I and I do think there's kind of a loosening up now with lawyers going to conferences. It depends sort of on if you're in big law and it's that type of conference or if, you know, there are more solo and small firm lawyers there. You might see a lot more casual kind of things.
Davina:But I love the idea of wearing something bright colored to catch somebody's attention or something different. That's also a conversation starter or conversation piece. You know? So I thought that was a fun fun tip to do. So let's talk about is there anything else that's an absolute?
Davina:You've mentioned a couple of things to do before the conference, but let's talk about during the conference and
Speaker 3:Well, to be I'm wondering. For just a second. There's there's something more I wanna mention. So one is you must rehearse your elevator pitch. Okay.
Speaker 3:And you must tailor it to whether you're talking to another attorney or to a person who is not an attorney so that it will align with their interests. So that that's one thing. And another thing I want to suggest is contact the speakers as I did and say, I'm so interested that you're going to talk about topic a. Are you going to address aspect 1? So that'll give the speaker some idea of what the audience is interested in hearing, and it may influence them in how they shape their presentation.
Speaker 3:Now a second part of that email is to say, is there a question you would like me to ask? Because when a person is giving their panel presentation, they can't talk about everything in the world. They can only talk about certain things. And so if you say to them, is there a question you would like me to ask? Then you will allow them to elaborate further on some point that they could only address in passing.
Speaker 3:And that way, first of all, you will be the first person to ask question. So that opens up the q and a section, which if it doesn't start right away, can be quite deadly. I'm sure you've had that experience. Right. Right.
Speaker 3:Right. But, also, you will be the speaker's best friend. At the end of the session, when everybody goes up to the dais and they wanna share business cards and so on, you can just kinda hang back. And at the end, when everybody's left, you go up to the speaker and you say, Devina, I really enjoyed what you had to say, and I'm so glad I was able to ask answer ask that question. And then the panelist will say, oh, no.
Speaker 3:Done it. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it that I was able to spend more time addressing this important point, you know, in my in my remarks. So those are 2 more preparatory tips that I think people share.
Davina:And speakers always love it when you can be an engaged audience and help them out because that's so with one of the worst things as a speaker is to sit to a room of people just staring at you, and you're not sure if they're picking up what you're throwing down. So it's wonderful because a lot of times people are just waiting for somebody else to lead the way. And if you can be that person, you're gonna be the speaker's gonna love you for that. So that's a wonderful that's a wonderful tip. I wanna talk about business cards because I know a lot of younger people now are not using business cards.
Davina:They're using their phones, and they're exchanging information that way. Do you think we still need to have printed business cards as well as that just in case? I'm thinking there are probably some people there who won't know how to use their phone to capture exchange information, and so there'd be still some value in that. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3:So I definitely, use business cards, and, I wanna give 2 ways of thinking about it. 1 is whenever I have a conversation with someone, I try to give value. So I want them to think of me after the conversation is over, and one way to do that is to give them my business card. But when I receive their business card, I wanna make sure that I make a note of whatever it was that we talked about and whatever it was that I promised them. Did I promise them an article?
Speaker 3:Did I promise them a newsletter? Did I promise them an introduction to someone else? Did I promise them, you know, a a stack of, you know, PowerPoint presentation, whatever. So when I receive their business card, then I can make a note of that, and I can keep track of sending it at a future date. Now, I have a client who uses that approach in a slightly different way.
Speaker 3:When she gets your business card, she takes a picture of it with her phone, and then she sends the information, the photo, to her assistant and says, please send Divina the newsletter or the article or the webinar link or the podcast or whatever it was. And then what happens? Divina goes back to her room at the end of the day and gets the information that was promised to her. And then the next day, she looks for you, and she says, thank you so much for sending me, you know, that information. I really appreciated it, and I'm gonna give it a second read or a second listen when I get back to the office.
Speaker 3:So by having a physical business card, you're giving something that someone else can hold on to. You're making a note on their card of what it is that you've promised them, or you're sharing their contact information with your assistant who is then going to follow-up and send whatever it is that you promised to them. Now if you're solo and you don't have an assistant, you can hire a virtual assistant for just a couple of hours during the time that you're on the at the conference, and they can be handling this request for you. So It's wonderful. It works in a variety of ways.
Speaker 3:So, yes, I think business cards are important. I wanna mention something else, which is that I have a separate item that is the size of a business card that I give away. And it has 4 panels and it folds. So the first panel says, buy fast tips to maximize a media phone interview. And it has my name and my logo and the name of my company.
Speaker 3:And then when you open it up are the 5 fast tips that you can use when talking to a reporter. And then on the outside panel, on the back, it has my contact information and my phone number, my email address, and it also has a QR code so that you can take a picture of that QR code and sign up for my newsletter. So this is something that I give away that not only does it have all my business information, my email, my phone number, subscription to my newsletter, but it also helps you understand what it is that I do and how it is that I can be helpful to you. Introducing you to reporters so that you will sound smarter when you talk to those reporters. So this is a different kind of swag, if you will.
Speaker 3:And because it's a business card, you can keep it in your wallet, you can keep it on your desk, and so you'll always have these 5 tips handy. So I would encourage people to, you know, think about some small swag like item that they could bring with them, not something, you know, like a baseball cap or something like that, but something small that people can walk away with, and that way, they will be remembering you and getting useful information about what it is that you do and could do for them. Can you give us some do and could do for them.
Davina:Can you give us some examples of what lawyers,
Speaker 3:what some
Davina:of the attorneys you've seen, have taken that and done with because I can imagine as attorneys sitting here, they're thinking, well, marketing people's networking with attorney are gonna have, you know, tips for them. But how do I network if I'm in a room full of lawyers, many of who do what I do or many who are different practice areas or different, but what kind of value can I bring to them? Have you seen some particular ways that some attorneys have done this in sort of a unique way? Maybe some other clients you've worked with.
Speaker 3:Yeah. This is not something that I have done with my clients, but, but 2 things that I have seen. So one was an attorney who advised people who were, you know, going into federal investigations. Now what do you do when you get that heavy handed out of the door? Right?
Speaker 3:So, his law firm developed an app so that when you trigger this app, then it tells you basically what your rights are and what you can and cannot say and, you know, admonishes you to behave accordingly. So that's one example of someone who, you know, gets involved in, you know, federal investigations and, you know, serious litigation. Right. Another example that I've seen, and this is more for, how can I say this? This is more consumer oriented.
Speaker 3:And and I've seen so many of them that I I know that there's just somebody out there who's got this white label product, and they put your firm's name on it. And that is what to do if you're in an accident or what to do if you're stopped for drug driving. And, you know, those are also apps that you can have on your phone so that, you know, if you if you anticipate that you're gonna be in this terrible situation, then you can, you know, open up this app, and it'll give you guidance as to how you should interact with law enforcement, you know, if you're stopped for trail driving or what you should do with the other party if you find that you're in some sort of accident. So those are examples of, you know, things that attorneys can be sharing to promote their service. Right?
Speaker 3:They're not paper business card like I have, but they're definitely accessible in the moment when you need it. And it's it's one of those things that you don't know you need it until you need it so desperately.
Davina:Right. Right. When you are you know, attorneys attend a lot of conferences where there are other attorneys there, and then, of course, there are vendors who serve and support attorneys. I think sometimes people have a a notion that I'm supposed to get business from an event. But, really, what do you think?
Davina:I mean, do you think that is what people should expect, or or what do you think they should expect to sort of take away from these trade shows, conferences, and events? What how should they go into it, instead of thinking, well, I'm gonna get business out of this. Is that what we should be thinking or something else?
Speaker 3:Well, I I really view it as cultivating a garden. Right? You're planting seeds and you're going to be nurturing these relationships over a period of time. And, you you don't know how long it's going to take or, you know, when something is going to happen. I mean, you know, to get go back to the example I gave where wearing a royal blue jacket meant that I had substantive conversations with a few people to whom I introduced myself in advance, and one of them ended up referring me to clients, but that was, you know, entirely unpredictable.
Speaker 3:I couldn't have guessed that. So I think if you view it as all types of networking, which is, to plant a seed, to get to know someone, to make yourself open and accessible, to find ways to continue to be in touch with that person, you know, I think that's going to be the most productive. I mean, remember when I said at the beginning about what are your goals. If your goals are just to get an update and learn from the speaker and earn your CLEs, you don't have to go to a conference for that. But if your goal is to interact with more people, then you will find opportunities to do so.
Speaker 3:And over time, you know, something will reveal itself, but it's entirely unpredictable, you know, what that's going when that's going to be. Right. Published my monthly newsletter just the other day, and it's called update on the marketing rule of 7 touches. So it used to be that in marketing speak, it took 7 touches for someone to close the deal with with, with a potential client. But now, because so much information is available online, then, prospective clients are doing their own research and conduct quite a bit of research before they ever make physical contact, whether it's a phone call or an email with the service provider or or with the seller of those particular goods.
Speaker 3:But once you have made this information available, no matter how many touches it's going to take, you cannot predict what will be the trigger of it. You cannot predict when budget will be approved, you know, when other people will line up behind the buy decision, and so on. All you can do is make more information available, cultivate more relationships, and, yes, over time, you know, you will see a return.
Davina:But it's
Speaker 3:entirely unpredictable how quickly that can happen.
Davina:Now, I think one of the things that you mentioned as a goal is to recruit. Like, not necessarily overt recruiting, but just by expanding your network and getting to know more people is gonna make recruiting talent, better for you if you develop that sort of strong network because that is a real challenge for a lot of solo and small firms right now or small firms as they're trying to scale from being a solo is hiring people and attracting people. And a lot of the reason why is because they don't have an extensive network and because we've gone so much to remote work, and so we don't develop those kinds of relationships anymore except maybe through social media. And a place like that really gets you to put some faces and names together and for people to see your face and put your name together and and for you to talk about your firm and what you do and, you know, that you're expanding and you're looking for always looking for good people. So I think that's an that's a wonderful thing that you brought up that, as well.
Davina:So tell me other what else should we do during the conference?
Speaker 3:There are so many opportunities when you can simply turn to the person next to you and say, what do you think about that? Or what have you learned from that? How are you going to apply this to your clients? How are you going to apply this to your firm? Right?
Speaker 3:Before the session starts, where the speakers are getting off the panel and the new set of speakers are coming up, you know, there's opportunities when you can have these casual conversations. Say somebody suddenly sits down next to you because they were in a different session in a different room. You can ask that person, what was your session about? And, you know, see what you can learn from them and say, well, what we talked about in this previous session was x and y, and you could you can share that information. So it's not only, you know, getting in touch with people in advance that you might want to have a conversation with, but taking those informal opportunities between sessions when you're going to the coffee break or, you know, during the networking activity, which inevitably takes place at the end of the day.
Speaker 3:You know, look for those other opportunities when you can have a conversation. When you come in in the morning, breakfast is a very quick conversation. Right? Because everybody just wants to get their drink and their coffee and their pastry and then, you know, go on to the next event. So you have to make a decision.
Speaker 3:Do you want to sit with people that you already know or do you want to sit with new people? Right? Because it's a very quick conversation. I recommend checking in with the people that you already know. You just wanna say hello, catch up, find out what's going on because you don't have a lot of time to talk.
Speaker 3:But lunchtime is different. Lunchtime is where you really can sit with people that you don't know and have a more extended conversation with them, you know, even while there's going to be some sort of keynote speech or speaker going on. So I would encourage people to think about those in between moments and find ways that you can be sharing information and and sharing your point of view. I also encourage people to take a few photos. Take a few selfies.
Speaker 3:That's always the reason why you can follow-up with someone. Oh, it's really great talking with you. Let's take a photo so we can remember the conversation that we had about x topic. So you're looking for not only opportunities where you can be sharing your point of view or sharing something that you wrote about or that you heard about because you've exchanged business cards and you've made a note on the business part of the person you received that you're going to follow-up with them. But, you know, take a few selfies that you can share with people.
Speaker 3:And that's another way to, as I say, plant the seed so that you can continue the the conversation. And I
Davina:you you brought up a good point in your, in your ebook that I really liked because it is I've seen it over and over again at conferences. I'm sure you have to. As soon as the session breaks, lawyers go into their phone and they're going to their email and they're checking their email and they get mentally sort of sucked out of the moment, jumping through hoops and responding emails instead of sort of staying in that moment. Tell us what your thoughts are on that and and why you why you point this out.
Speaker 3:I think that there's nothing more important than the people around you. You know. If you have effectively sat near out of office reply, then people know that you're at a conference and they're not expecting to hear from you except after business hours at the end of the day. Right? Those people can wait.
Speaker 3:I think that it's more important to interact with the people that are around you because you're you're there for the moment, you're there for the for the interaction. So it's important to turn off your phone and silence your watch so that you're not disturbing the other people around you. Now, if you're from a firm that has multiple offices, do not be hanging out with the people from the Chicago office. You can see them anytime. Right?
Speaker 3:You're there to mix and mingle with people that you do not know or the people that you previously contacted that you want to connect with. I think I think that's, you know, that's my that's my advice in that way. Yeah. And I I think a lot of, a
Davina:lot of us use our phones for it's like how people used to smoke and they always had to have their cigarette for that comfort, you know, something in their hand and something to be doing because they're uncomfortable in the environment, and they don't really know what to say and to do. And I think your point to being prepared ahead of time and also asking questions. I always find asking questions of other people helps to take the focus off of me, not cross examining them by any means. I've certainly met people who do that as well. They just fire one question after the other.
Davina:But have some questions in your back pocket that you can ask people. Like, you've mentioned several that I think are really great, like, asking people, well, did you what session did you just come from? But how was that? Was it good? Was the speaker good?
Davina:Those kinds of questions are are great to be able to talk about things that are going on in the conference. Did you see this booth? Did you see that booth? There are all kinds of topics that you could discuss with other people to get into conversation with them.
Speaker 3:Right. Danita, I would say though that try to ask questions that are more open ended, that they're not yes questions. So the person really has to have an opinion. So I have a favorite question that I ask all the time at networking events, and it is, what was the highlight of the year for you? Or what was the highlight of the quarter for you?
Speaker 3:You know, depending on what time of year it is. Right. And and and I'd like to ask, in addition to say, I know you work with a team of other people, but I want to know what was it that would not have happened if you were not there? Now I find in our culture, we're really not allowed to brag very much. So if I'm gonna give you the opportunity to brag, you're gonna lap it up.
Speaker 3:K? Some people don't have any problem bragging. We don't have to discuss them. But for many people, it's hard for them to say, I had this great client success, this is what I did, and the client was very happy and it made such a difference for them in their life or in their business or or whatever it is. So I like to ask a question that's going to draw the person in and, you know, and and give me the opportunity to get to know a little bit more about them and about their practice, what kind of problems they like to solve, what kind of clients they like to work with, and so on.
Speaker 3:And to elaborate a little further on that point, no matter what a person says about this great client success, I say, that sounds hard. How exactly did you do that? And then they can really drill down and go on a great length about whatever it was that they were able to accomplish. So in asking your informal questions, you know, try and make it so that the person has to respond with more than a monosyllable and say, you know, this speaker was was great because they gave examples and they pointed out the difficulty of whatever it was. Or or I tried to I tried this demo at this particular vendor and it really didn't work for me.
Speaker 3:I think it would be better for somebody else who has this certain kind of practice and and so on. So try and I Yeah. Try and develop questions that'll be more experiential and insightful than than just did you they just be it's good. Yeah.
Davina:Well, I think the I think your to your point, I really think this is a before the conference thing for people particularly who are introverted or, you know, don't really think about this to before the conference, sit and write out some different questions that you can ask people and think about things because most of the questions you get are what do you do, where do you work, what kind of law do you practice. As an attorney who's been to conferences and know that I've had many people ask me, what kind of law do you practice? Anybody here's having an attorney. The first thing he says, where do you work? What kind of law do you practice?
Davina:You know, these are the knee jerk sort of things. And you can imagine in a room full of 600 attorneys, that's gonna get old very fast. So giving some thought to some thoughtful questions that you can ask people much like you've done would be, would make you really stand out and be notable. And we all know that people remember how you make them feel. So, like you said, the questions you're asking, you know, are are designed to make them feel proud of their work and what they're doing, and and there's somebody showing an interest in that.
Davina:So I think that I think it's fantastic. Alright. Just before we end, let's let's give a couple of things that are really important to do after our conference.
Speaker 3:Okay. The most important thing is to follow-up. We wanna follow-up with the people that you had in formal conversations with because we are assuming you will exchange business cards with them. You want to follow-up with the people that you sat with at lunchtime when you had a more extensive conversation than just the person who would see it next to you. You want to follow-up with the people that you took selfies with so that they can be reminded of the conversation that you had.
Speaker 3:You want to be sending whatever it was that you promised to the other person, whether it was an article or newsletter or a client alert or or or anything like that. And while you're doing that, you can also say, I wanna keep in touch with you on an informal basis. I have a quarterly newsletter. I have a monthly newsletter. Here's a link if you'd like to subscribe.
Speaker 3:Right? So you don't subscribe people automatically. That is a bad practice. But you invite them now that you've shown that you are providing value, that you're providing insight because you've shared an experience with them or you've shared materials with them. You invite them to keep in touch with you back.
Speaker 3:Now the problem is is that everybody who you meet, they're going back to their office and they're doing the same thing. They're catching up with you and they're catching up with the many other people that they were in touch with at the conference. So it's very important that you mark your calendar for the next conversation. It's not enough to have one conversation at the event and send them whatever you promised them. And then they're gonna write back to you, maybe, maybe they won't, and thank you for whatever it was.
Speaker 3:You have to have another conversation. So you should be marking your calendar for 4 weeks later or 6 weeks later to have another conversation and get in touch with that person. Because it's not one and done. This is planting seeds, cultivating relationships, and you wanna make sure that you are keeping in touch. Now, of course, if you're on LinkedIn or if you're, participating in other social media, then you wanna invite those people to connect with you and to follow you in those places just as you are inviting them to subscribe to your newsletter.
Speaker 3:Right. Well, we'll try. It's not it's not that you're foisting yourself on them, but you're saying, let's continue the conversation in an informal way. You know, here's my newsletter, quarterly or monthly. You know?
Speaker 3:I wanna be, wanna be in touch with you. I I could connect with you on LinkedIn or wherever it is that you're active on social media and so on. And finally, with all that you've learned at this event, you could be writing a newsletter. You could be writing a client update. You could be sharing what it is that you learn so that other people who, for their own reason, were not able to attend or they went to different sessions than the ones that you went to and so on, they still could gain value from what it is that you observed, that you learned, that you heard, that update that you got on what's happening in the law or what's happening in the particular industry.
Speaker 3:So I wanna share that I once went to a conference where the subject was social media. It was a 2 day conference, and I gathered my notes from, you know, many leading figures who were talking about aspects of social media, and I published them on LinkedIn. I published the one the first night. I published one the second night. Devina, you can't imagine how many views those posts got.
Speaker 3:Wow. 1 got 18,000 Wow. And one Wow. 16,000. Okay?
Speaker 3:So this was me simply note taking and sharing what it was that I heard at this conference. And because these were, you know, bigwigs in the industry of social media, you know, other people follow them and they weren't at the event, but they were able to learn from my experience. That's so wonderful. But so did any of them become clients? Did any of them connect with me on LinkedIn or do anything else?
Speaker 3:You know, it was couple years ago. I no longer remember. But what I'm saying is is now that you've had the investment of traveling to this place, spending a lot of time, going to these sessions, meeting with people informally, following up with them. You know, take what it was that you learned from this entire experience and develop something that you can share with your audience, with your clients, or, you know, with other people back at your firm and, you know, make more out of it so that the people who weren't in attendance can still benefit from your experience.
Davina:That's wonderful. That's a wonderful tip, Janet. I think you've given us some really great tips for anybody who wants all of them. We'll have the link in the show notes to Janet's ebook, and you can grab that and, read for yourself and make some notes and reach out to Janet and thank her. Maybe start a conversation with her.
Davina:Janet, I so appreciate you being here. I really enjoyed our conversation today.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's my pleasure, Tamina. I I'm glad to share these insights with you.
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