Subspace Radio: a Star Trek podcast

To celebrate our fiftieth episode, we break from our usual format to record an audio commentary for Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, arguably the least successful Star Trek film, but not without its charms (and an especially charming Vulcan!).

We'll return with more Subspace Radio when new Trek returns to our screens in April for Star Trek: Discovery's final season. Until then, see you 'round the galaxy!

  • (00:00) - Episode 50: Star Trek V commentary
  • (02:25) - Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
  • (01:56:48) - Outro

Music: Distänt Mind, Brigitte Handley

What is Subspace Radio: a Star Trek podcast?

Kevin Yank and Rob Lloyd explore the intersecting wormholes that permeate Star Trek canon, inspired by each new episode to hit the subspace relays.

Kevin: Hello and welcome back, strangers
of the galaxy, to Subspace Radio.

It's our big 50th episode, Rob.

Rob: Hooray!

Who woulda thunk that just a out of
the blue message by Kevin Yank to

Rob Lloyd would, uh, after I did a
post about Strange New Worlds would

lead on to 50 episodes of two white
guys talking about something nerdy.

Kevin: You know, Rob, that just means
that neither of us are the type of person

who is willing to admit defeat easily.

That's all.

We're both stubborn.

Too stubborn to stop.

Rob: Despite, it's, it's our own
Kobayashi Maru, right here, you know,

Kevin: I've been re watching, uh,
Prodigy on Netflix to give them the, uh,

the views, the views in their logs to
hopefully get a season three approved.

But, uh, yeah, I recently watched,
uh, the episode where Dal does the

Kobayashi Maru test again and again.

Rob: And that's the one with all
the, uh, is that all the holograms

of with, uh, Jimmy Deon and, uh,
Rene Auberjonois . And, and, uh,

Kevin: It's a good one.

I gotta say Time Amok is my,
at this point, is my favorite

episode of season one.

The one where they're in different time
frames and Rok-Tahk spends a long time

alone and teaches herself so much maths
in order to fix the the warp drive

and basically grows up in one episode.

Rob: I saw something, someone online
just, uh, uh, on, on, uh, Twitter.

We'll not call it x.

Uh, there are some, there
are some hills I will die on.

Um, yeah.

But someone was, uh, uh, yeah, a lot
of love for Time Amok, uh, online

at the moment because, uh, a lot of
people are doing what you are doing

and I will be doing, um, instead of
doing actual work and chores around

the house during my school holiday.

Kevin: To play to your predilections,
Rob, it's a very Whovian, uh, Doctor

Who like episode where a character
kind of experiences an entire lifetime

while everyone else just blinks their
eye and, uh, completely changes and

grows as a result of the experience.

Rob: That is a very Steven Moffat way
of, uh, uh, doing Doctor Who and yeah,

bringing that, those elements in.

So we've got Who back as well as,
as now on Disney Plus and, uh, it's,

you know, it's, it's a wonderful
time to be across all fandom.

Kevin: But we are here to
immerse ourselves in not the

strongest that Star Trek has to
offer, but perhaps the silliest.

That's, that's my opening gambit, is
that Star Trek V: The Final Frontier,

is the silliest Star Trek movie.

For, for good and for ill.

Rob: Yes, it is.

It, it is William Shatner's magnum
opus, the, the one that he'd been

wanting to do for so long because
dear old Lenny was getting, uh,

so many directing opportunities.

William Shatner sp spat his,
uh, prima donna, uh, dummy

and went, I wanna direct one.

And, uh, sadly, his entry into the Star
Trek universe with his directorial debut,

one and only Star Trek directorial is, uh.


Um, I'm looking forward to, much has been
criticized about the criticisms and about

the negativity of this, I'm really looking
to find those, those gold nuggets that we

can really, you know, scrub away any dirt
that, uh, or barnacles that hang onto it.

I know I'm

Kevin: There is good in this one.

It's just, uh, you gotta look
past everything else to see it.

Rob: And what a way to celebrate
50 episodes by doing something,

uh, a bit out of the ordinary.

We will be going through the
entire movie and we'll be

doing our own audio commentary.

So take that Mystery Science Theater 3000.

Kevin: There you go.

So if and when we make it to 100, we'll
treat ourselves with a good movie maybe,

but we're gonna, gonna do our time here.

This is the one we have been dancing
around, and I feel like it is a good

time to revisit Star Trek V because
sometime in the next year or so, I

suspect we're going to get an episode
of Strange New Worlds with Sybok in

it, and it will be good to have this
somewhat fresh in our minds, I think.

Rob: Yeah, I mean, and they're, they're
bending the, the continuity anyway, I

mean, so they're, yeah, with, with Pike
meeting Shatner, I mean, uh, meeting,

uh, Kirk, so let's just have it.

Let's just have the two of them meet.

Let's have Spock and
Sybok do stuff together.

They could do a whole, it was all
a dream at the end if they want to,

or it's another musical episode.

No, we don't need that.

Kevin: So, uh, we are breaking from format
with our fiftieth episode here, listener.

You can watch Star Trek V along with us.

We are going to be watching it in real
time here, effectively recording a,

an audio commentary to this movie.

We're not the first to do it.

We are certainly not the
best qualified to do it.

But, um, let's see what stands out to us.

What we've done here is
we have cued up the film.

We are watching the version on Paramount+.

It is probably, I don't think they
have done a director's cut of this

film, so no matter which version you're
watching, you can probably time it

with what we're watching at this point.

Rob: Mm.

Kevin: Um, the important thing
is a technical note to any of

you who are using podcast players
that cut out slices of silence.

Or that, that you like to play us at
1.5×, you're going to want to slow

us down to 1.0 for this, and you're
going to want to turn off that feature

that cuts out moments of silence,
because otherwise we will get out of

sync with the movie you're watching.

Rob: And you don't want that.

Kevin: You don't want that,

Rob: There's enough to battle
through with this movie, you

don't need those added hurdles.

Kevin: We're going to be talking about
Scotty's head wound and you'll be going,

what are you, what are they talking about?

It's Uhura doing a fan dance.

And no one wants that confusion.

Rob: Yeah, look, yeah, two moments
playing at the same time in our

heads or anybody else's heads
is too much awkwardness to bear.

Um, but yes,

Kevin: So, so what we've done is we have
queued up the film at the Paramount logo.

So when you start this film, the, it fades
in on the mountain and the stars fly in

and form a circle around the mountain.

And then just as the word Paramount
appears, that's where we've paused

it and we're going to count you
in and you can press play with us.

And then we're, we're going to go.

Rob, do you have any other opening remarks
you want to share before we get into this?

Or should we let the
movie speak for itself?

Rob: Look, it's Star Trek
V: The Final Frontier.

It did come out in the
best year of cinema, 1989.

Uh, it

Kevin: Context is, good to get here.


Rob: it is the year of, um, uh,
Dead Poets Society came out.

It is the year of Ghostbusters 2.

It's the year of the original, uh, Tim
Burton Batman, which, uh, swept the pool.

Uh, field of Dreams.

There are incredible
films in the year 1989.

Kevin: And in Star Trek context,
this is three years after Star Trek

IV, the breakout mainstream hit.

Uh, and, uh, one year after the premiere
of Star Trek: The Next Generation.

So this is the first original Star Trek
movie that came out as Star Trek: The Next

Generation was airing on our televisions.

Rob: So yeah, surprising amount
of, um, eyes focusing on this

and a lot of pressure on this to
do well because after the, uh,

Kevin: Can they repeat the
success of Star Trek IV?

I will spoil it now.

They cannot.

Rob: And also with, you know, the,
the struggles of the first season

of, um, uh, Next Generation who find
that that audience, and especially

a lot of fans going that this is
now Star Trek, which is, uh, um,

which would never happen nowadays.

Obviously, we would never have any
type of, not my version of a franchise.

Kevin: Yeah, yeah.

Of course not.

Rob: I'm doing big, I'm
doing big commas here.

Kevin: Well, let's get into it.

So, I'm going to count us in
from five and we will hit play.


Rob: On one, on, on

Kevin: Oh, good point, good point.

We will, we will press play on one.

Five, four, three, two, play.

All right.

Rob: Very ominous start.

Kevin: Woosh to white.

Rob: Whoosh to white, George
Lucas would be very impressed.

Kevin: Here we are on the deserts
of Nimbus 3 in the Neutral Zone.

So, this is, Rob, this is the first Star
Trek film that I saw in cinemas live.

And, yeah, I remember it really well.

I remember, like, going to the
candy bar and they had little

Enterprise pins for sale.

And this, this feeling that Star Trek was
happening in a cinema live around me was,

uh, like, it really colored my experience.

Let's just say I really
wanted to like this movie.

Rob: Well, my first cinematic experience
of Star Trek was Star Trek VI, so

I remember watching this on TV as
the premiere, and there was always

rumblings going around at the time.

Um, I do remember the
rumblings of, oh, it wasn't.

You know, by the time it came to TV,
there was already that, even though

there was no internet at the time, the
word had got around about Star Trek V.

Kevin: Yeah.

Yeah, this is, um, you know, the
dry riverbed and the smoking holes.

It is ominous.

Rob: I did like the idea of sort of
like a weapon that where they use

just rocks to fire, it gave it that.

Kevin: Yeah.

It's starting primitive, though.

Um, I, I think, oh, yeah, here we go.

There's the first, this overlay of the
It wasn't, uh, it wasn't dusty enough,

so they have overlaid dust in post here.

The first signs of the budgetary
limitations of this film.

Rob: We need more dust.


Kevin: Yeah, here we go.

Field of empty holes.

Yeah, it's, it's evocative.

I'm, I'm trying to decide whether at
this point I was like, in full, full

like, oh yeah, field of holes, this is
awesome, or whether I was still kind

of reserving judgement at this point.

It's hard to put myself in the
mind of the 11 year old Kevin Yank

watching this, not knowing that
this was our laughing Vulcan yet.

Rob: Look, it's a, yeah, it's a, it's
a, it's a very interesting way to start,

uh, and, you know, a huge sci fi epic is
just two guys in a desert talking about

their emotions, which I'm a big fan of.

Kevin: Yeah, I probably
did not care for his teeth.

Those gross teeth are pretty gross.

So this is the first of Sybok's kind
of like miracle healings and for me

one of the things that didn't work
the first time I watched this movie,

but I wanted to pardon it, but it
works less and less every time I watch

it is the vagary of Sybok's power.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: This feels like it's meant
to be an allegory for like the TV

evangelist, right, who can wave his
hand and shake someone by the shoulders

and convince them they're cured of
something and, uh, and win their loyalty.

But there's not enough science in this
science fiction to me like, okay, the

first one can be mysterious, but I am
expecting at some point in the movie.

It will be explained what just
happened here between these two

Rob: Yeah, it never is.

I mean, you kind of have to jump the,
to the conclusions yourself with,

when you find out what he actually
is, which is about to be revealed.

But, to have the big cold opener
reveal this guy is a Vulcan

doesn't really work for me.

I'm going, we've seen Vulcans.

Kevin: We haven't seen laughing Vulcans.

Notice the horn

Rob: We have to be laughing
Vulcans, it's very true.

But if there was some connection
to say, cause Vulcans do have that

connection to the mind with Vulcan
mind melds and all that type of

stuff, but it's just this case of,
he just holds them and looks at them.

So it's that case

Kevin: Check out my ears.

Rob: it

Kevin: you noticed my ears?

Rob: I love how he says it,
I love, you're a Vulcan?

Kevin: So this, um, infamously
was meant to be Sean Connery.

They wanted Sean Connery for this role.

Rob: Yes, they did, yes.

Kevin: And, uh, Sha Ka Ree
is named after Sean Connery.

Rob: And of course, we have the
wonderful Jerry Goldsmith tune back.

Kevin: Look, there are many
things that don't work in this

picture, but the music works great.

Rob: And this Jerry Goldsmith comes
back for the whole score, doesn't he, I

Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's been away for a
while, and now he's back.

Rob: Yeah,

Kevin: uh, he reminds
us of why we missed him.

Rob: Very cool.

Kevin: Just the white lettering.

And they're slightly out of
focus, like they're just a little,

a little fat, those letters.

It's the attention to detail that matters.

Rob, there's so much I'm gonna tell you.

I'm gonna foreshadow for later.

The biggest sin this movie makes for
me, the thing that I cannot forgive it

for is a simple piece of attention to
detail, and I wonder if you will be able

to guess what it is before it comes.

David Warner.

Rob: David Warner, great to have you back.

Kevin: in this picture,

Rob: Laurence Luckinbill.

Kevin: Yeah.

Look, he does alright with
what he's given, I think.

Rob: think so too.

He's got, he's got a nice charm about
him and, um, you kind of believe

in some ways his, uh, his descent
into desperation near the end.

Kevin: This opening, um, matte painting
here of the sunrise in Yosemite is

reminiscent of the Vistas of Vulcan
we've seen in the previous two films.

Rob: Yeah.

I do miss a good old matte painting.

I'm sounding more and more older

Kevin: Although, there's
plenty to be had in this film.

And here's Kirk, uh, scaling El
Capitan in his, uh, In his fluorescent

striped bloomers, I'm going to say.

Rob: That now there's been never any
mention of Kirk's, uh, uh, enjoyment of

rock climbing or, or free, free climbing.

Kevin: No, it doesn't
really come back, does it?

It's never seen before
and never seen again.

But it fits, right?

Like, Kirk is a daredevil.

He's someone who likes to
feel on the edge of mortality.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: So this fits for me.

Uh, I like this.

And it's also a very, it's a, it's a
big left shift from what we've had in

the previous films, what you love so
much, Rob, is the, the aging warrior.

Like, this is Kirk being
portrayed as young again.

Rob: Oh yeah.

Kevin: head of hair,
nothing suspicious about it.

Rob: Big full of hair, big full
head of hair, big, you know,

big climbing up a big rock.

Um, he is, yeah, he is very much,
I am still at the prime of my life.

Which is quite an interesting turn,
uh, that maybe now he's having his

mid life crisis, whereas before he
was like facing his mortality, maybe

they flipped it around the wrong ways.

Kevin: Yeah,

Rob: He's at the denial stage
of his grief, I don't know.

Kevin: This is all good stuff.

Like these are real shots of El Capitan
with like the, it wasn't William Shatner

to be sure, but the person climbing
the crevasse, like that's a part of

El Capitan, um, and we're, we are, I
think with this shot here, if not very

shortly to come, transitioning to a
set in the parking lot of El Capitan.

This is still, this is still
real mountain, I think.

You can tell because you
haven't seen, oh, there he is.

Will Shatner.

Now that wall is looking
distinctly plaster.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: Here we go.

Rob: Love the, uh, the three
day growth on Shatner there.

Kevin: So yeah, this is
like a forced perspective.

They're on a, in a car park, in a,
in a, overlooking the, uh, valley.

Here's McCoy.

I love fretting McCoy.

Oh, the scarf, yeah.

Rob: Love the scarf and love the,

Kevin: The

Rob: the denim and the fluffy collar.

Kevin: Yeah.

So, yeah, if Kirk is allowed to be old,
uh, young here, McCoy is older than ever.

Rob: That's a good gag.

That's a cute, that's a, it's a classic
gag, it's an old gag, but I love it.

Kevin: Yeah, McCoy's done it a few times
and they lean into it more each time.

I like it too.

Look out!

So, what do you make of Spock in
this jet boot scene here, Rob?

Rob: Look, he, they very much lean into
the alien aspect of him going, I don't

know anything about human at all, I'm

Kevin: Yes, I reckon, I agree with you.

I think Spock has never
been more Data here.

And it's interesting that this is,
this is at the same time as season two

or filming around season one, season
two of The Next Generation when they

were creating the character of Data.

I think they were fascinated by no
longer us observing the alien, but

the alien observing us in return.

Rob: Yes, very much so, and that's one
of the great developments, especially

going back and watching classic ones, how
there's that underlying level of, you're

different to us, you gotta be more like
us, we're the right way of doing things,

um, It's always from the human outside
looking at Spock, whereas it's great with,

y'know, the introduction of Data, Data
reflecting back on humanity is, uh, always

what, y'know, good sci fi should be about.

Kevin: You must be one with
the rock is a line that will

come back later in the film.

There's the fall.

Look, we have said it before and
it's worth saying again, Leonard

Nimoy committing at a hundred and ten
percent to this silly, silly stuff.

Rob: time.

No matter how bad, no matter how good,
he is all you can always guarantee

Kevin: can see the wire coming out
of Shatner's back so you can see

them, that they're hanging sideways
and Spock's at a very weird angle.

Rob: Yeah.


Kevin: this is what they
do when they're on holiday.

Kirk scales a mountain, Spock
pesters Kirk in jet boots and goes,

why don't you just do it this way?

And McCoy just frets.

Rob: I did like the fact that
we get a bit more time of

them just hangin out socially.

Kevin: Yeah, so yes, one of the things
I love this movie for, but I think is

probably a trap, is the fan service.

Like, the amount at the start that
they give us, like, just spending

time with these characters as people
on holiday, I love it as a fan.

I'm not sure it makes it a good movie.

Rob: Would you ever want to play
slightly moist pool with me,

Kevin: Slightly moist pool, yeah.

Rob: It's not completely drenching
the balls, but they're just,

Kevin: I, can't, speaking of the
vagaries of this film, the amount of

water in that pool is somewhat vague.

Here at the start it looks like it's a
thin film of water that just kinda slows

down the balls as they move around what
seems to otherwise be a glass table.

Uh, and later in the film it seems like
a deep pool that you could drown in.

Rob: Exactly.

Do we, do we want to mention
the three breasted cat dancer?

Kevin: Less said the better.

She'll be back.

Rob: That's called shelving in improv.

Kevin: I, uh, yeah.

So here's David Warner
smoking a cigarette.

Rob: Oh, he's great.

Kevin: Speaking of doing
a lot with a little burp.

There you go.

There's a sync point for you, listeners.

If the burp was not exactly in
time with mine, fix it immediately.

Um, there's a Romulan ambassador in this.

Like, she doesn't do a whole lot.

Um, the fact that the Romulans are
kept alive in canon here is that's

an interesting aspect of this film.

Rob: And she doesn't really,
doesn't really behave very Romulan

esque, especially like the way it's
been, uh, uh, lampooned so much in

Kevin: No, she's pretty and sarcastic.

That's pretty much it.

Rob: And doesn't have the
usual, uh, bowl haircut,

Kevin: No.


Rob: I'm okay with, I love a bit of
variety within my cultures in Star Trek.

Kevin: I don't know the actor, but
she seems to have at least some

Asian background, and I'm not sure
I've seen an Asian Romulan before.

Rob: No, I don't think, I can't,

Kevin: nice look on the, the, the race.

So all this stuff of, uh, The Paradise
City here, they were very proud that

they had built this set in the desert.

And, uh, some have said that one of
the mistakes this film makes is it

spent its money in the wrong places.

And, uh, we're gonna see some, uh,
some effects shots of starships soon

that will, uh, bear some criticism.

Because, uh, I think they, instead of
paying Industrial Light and Magic to

do nice effects, they paid someone to
build these plaster walls in the desert.

Rob: They certainly do, uh, we do see them
run out of money the, the more we go on.

Kevin: This would be a
Quarks if it were made today.

Rob: Heh heh heh heh.

Kevin: They had to wait for the
grid to pop up in front of the CRT

screen before they could use it.

Rob: Oh,

Kevin: It's a fine line.

It's a fine line this Laurence
Luckinbill treads because he's

the antagonist, but he needs to be
forgivable so that you can feel his

sacrifice at the end of the movie.

Rob: And there needs to be a
charm there as well, there needs

Kevin: He is very charming, yes.

I think that was probably the first word
on the casting sheet for this character.


Rob: Like, genuine charm, that's the

Kevin: my favorite model in
Star Trek, that Starbase.

And this is the shot from the end of Star
Trek IV, when they find the Enterprise A.

Rob: Log entry, log entry
by Scotty, normally it's by

Kirk, and only Kirk, or maybe

Kevin: Poor, broken starship.

Rob: Uhura's very sassy in this section.

Kevin: is, uh, yeah, I love
her bags of chips on her hip.

Rob: Oh, just the,

Kevin: So, um, they're playing up a
romance and this is, this is to me,

this feels a lot like Troi and Worf
in late Star Trek: The Next Generation

where they just kind of go, look, we've
got a male and a female character.

We need to give them each something to do.

Why don't we tease a romance?

Rob: Now, Uhura's

Kevin: like it.

I've, I, I, a lot of people
don't like the Scotty and Uhura

romance, but I think it's cute.

Rob: look, it would have worked
better if they didn't make him the

brunt of so many, brunt of all many,
so many jokes in this, uh, one.

Uhura's hair is amazing.

Kevin: uh, it's amazing,

Rob: hair looks outstanding.

Kevin: It's sculpted in marble.

Rob: That little curl just at the front,

Kevin: Oh, yeah, I
hadn't noticed the curl.

All the boys get, uh, the
sideburns, the Star Trek sideburns,

so she gets the curl, I guess.

She's beautiful.

And again, this is some of the,
this is some of the most interesting

acting that Nichelle Nichols is
given to do in the entire, uh, canon.

Rob: the, in the movies especially,
she isn't given much at all.

Kevin: Hikaru Sulu is wearing
some kind of kimono in the forest

because he's Japanese, obviously.

Rob: it?


Kevin: It's a

Rob: Oh, Walter leans into
this so well, he's so good.

Kevin: He's having a
great time, you can tell.

He is not taking it too seriously.

They're all having a great time with
this stuff because it's more than they're

usually given in these films to do.

Oh, look at that communicator grille.

You can see where it got bent.

The prop's a little bent at
the tip of his finger there.

Someone got in trouble for
bending the communicator grille.

Rob: He's got such a great voice.

Kevin: All right, it's the
row, row, row your boat.

No, that's at the end of the,
that's at the end of the movie.

This is the marsh-mellons scene.

Rob: I thought they started here as

Kevin: Oh, maybe they are.

Yeah, maybe they do.

Rob: Yes, because then, um, uh,
Spock brings out his, uh, his lute

or lyre and plays that at the end.

Kevin: So speaking of me wanting to love
this movie as an 11 year old, one of the

first things I did after I saw this film
is I went and bought the novelization,

which has expanded scenes, like there is
more story provided that didn't make it

to the scene, whether that's based on cut
scenes or the author of the novelization

took Spock took artistic liberties to
flesh it out, but one of the things that's

explained is the marsh-mellon gag that
Spock creates a marsh-mellon and McCoy

kind of like chuckles and goes along with
it, but they never actually explain what

the deal is with the marsh-mellons and
in the book, McCoy is playing a prank

on Spock where he has reprogrammed the
library computer predicting that Spock

is going to look up how to do a camp
out, he changes the library computer to

introduce, to change the word marshmallow
to marsh-mellon, so that when Spock says

it, he will know that Spock was studying
up for his camp out, and, and it's, you

know, taking the piss, taking it, taking
it, taking it out on his old friend Spock.

But none of this is on screen, all
that is left of this on screen is, hmm,

marsh-mellon, interesting, and, um,
this is, I don't know how that happened.

Like, did they cut the other scene and
just not bother to rewrite this one?

At this point, were they
intending to shoot that other

scene, but they ran out of money?

Like, how did that happen that there
are these half ideas left in this film?

Rob: Look, these are, these are the
audio commentaries where we need, uh,

you know, someone who was actually on the
film, and we actually have, no I don't,

we don't have anyone here, it's just,
we don't know anybody just ourselves.

Um, maybe something's revealed in the,
uh, DVD audio commentary release of it.


Kevin: So, Kirk says here, I've
always known that I'll die alone,

which is a very big promise.

Uh, and it serves a very small point at
the end of this film, but it creates this

thing of, okay, do we accept that Kirk has
this premonition that he will die alone?

Do we, should we accept that as fact?

And, in Generations, when he falls off
that bridge, and he's, uh, he's there

with Picard in the moment of his death,
does that mean that he didn't die?

Like, what is going on
with that dying alone?

Rob: It's, for me it's one of
the few things I really like,

I think it's a really beautiful

Kevin: A marsh-mellon.

There you go.

Rob: Camping out.

Kevin: Marsh-mellons.

Rob: Mush, mush, marsh,
marsh, marsh-mellons

Kevin: Because I gather DeForest
Kelly here knows what the gag

is, because he's playing it up.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: Yeah, I don't get it.

That marshmallow is
suspiciously long as well.

I've never seen a

Rob: It's a very, looks
like it's two together.

As I was saying, it's one of the few
things I really like about this, I

think it's actually quite poetic.

Kevin: thing.

Rob: die alone thing I like because
Kirk has made a family out of Starfleet

and these people he relies on, he knows
that they will always have his back

and they will always come for him.

Kevin: So he can't die if
he's not alone, is what he's

Rob: Yeah, is that idea of when
I die I will not have anyone

there who will have my back.

Um, whether it's,

Kevin: that is true in Generations.

He is away from his family.

Rob: Yeah, he is away from them.

I did, uh, I always saw it more
of the idea that nobody was there.

Even, even having Picard looking
at him going, oh, that's a shame.

As he says, oh my.

Little bit of harmony there.


Kevin: Yeah, that's not bad.

So, the tone of this
film bears remarking on.

Like, it is obvious they were trying
to do what worked about Star Trek IV.

They're like, Oh!

Oh, people like comedy in their Star Trek!

And, so, our characters, like, the,
it's, Sybok and the, the Nimbus 3 stuff

is played relatively straight, but
all of the stuff with our characters

here has been played for comedy.

Literally every single scene with them
so far in this film, and we're, we're

nearly half an hour in, has been comic.

Uh, and that continues through much
of this film, and, uh, I feel like

they over corrected, like they learned
the lesson of Star Trek IV too well.

Rob: Well, it is that case of, it works
as Star Trek IV because the comedy

comes from a mission that they have.


Kevin: Yeah, that's right.

Rob: save the Earth, but the comedy comes
as they are on task, whereas this, they're

just, they're just stuffing around.

There's no purpose to the comedy coming.

I mean, I like that element of going,
let's just, I like a bit of an element,

probably not in a major motion picture,
but I love them just hanging out and

goofing around and all that type of stuff,
but it works so well in Star Trek IV

because you are in the parameters of a
movie and you need to be on that mission,

Kevin: hmm.

Rob: and the comedy comes from that.

Kevin: I forget what space
probe that is meant to be.

It's got a plaque similar to the Voyager
probe, so I think it's meant to be like,

Pioneer something something, Pioneer 16?

I'd have to look it up.

One of the things we cannot do when
we aren't editing our episode is

look things up on Memory Alpha.

So, this is the Klingon bridge set from
Star Trek IV with a periscope added.

And, uh, these are, this is like
a younger Klingon captain and

crew than we've typically seen.

Rob: I love the, um, I love Jerry
Goldsmith's, um, Klingon music and

Kevin: Playing with the
theme in a new way, yeah,

Rob: the Klingon theme and how operatic
it is, and so it really feels cinematic.

I know it's in a movie, obviously
with a huge orchestra, but it

just, those tones are great.

If only that theme was incor incorporated
every time a Klingon was around.

Kevin: yeah.

I was, um, I was chuckling at the reaction
when they blew up the space probe there.

The female officer in the background,
she kind of, she smiled broadly

and kind of gave a little cheer at
the destruction of the space junk.

These are not serious Klingons.

Rob: No, these, these aren't the top
notch, uh, you know, uh, soldiers

who will go into Sto-vo-kor.

These these are almost like the
teenagers, they're going, alright, okay,

let's, you know, that's their version
of, you know, knocking letter boxes.

Kevin: We've seen a few of those
Klingon captains that are like big

fish in small ponds or, um You know,
they're, they're commanders of a

small ship on a small mission, and
then they get the Enterprise in its

sights, and they're like, this is our
opportunity to make a name for ourself.

Oh, no, it isn't.

Rob: Uhura has never looked better without
a good bit of backlighting behind her.

Beautiful shot.

Kevin: Yeah,

Rob: That's a, uh, Steven Spielberg trick,
in cinema, using a lot of backlight.

Look at that.


Kevin: Yeah, Bill Shatner, obviously, uh,
I'm not sure if we've said it explicitly

since we hit play is the director of this
movie and the star so you know playing

Kirk and directing in for the first time.

Okay here we go so we had some ugly
space shots of the uh it's worth noticing

the the reflection there that is a
reflection of a still picture projected

in front of them but it is nevertheless
an attempt at something which is a

reflection of of an effect shot on glass.

Taking big swings.

This takes, this movie
does take some big swings.

Does not generally connect on many
of them, but it takes the swings.

Rob: That's a lovely, uh,
lovely setup of a shot.

I like the, the, the
placement of the actors.

It's a little bit, it's a little
bit staged, a little bit theatrical,

a good bit of flair and in a,
in a good, uh, setup, not a

usual three, three shot setup.

Kevin: So what I'm told is Industrial
Light Magic, who famously did the

beautiful effects work for the previous
movies, asked for too much money this time

around, and the production said, well,
we don't need Industrial Light Magic,

we can do it with some newbies, and, uh,
they were in over their heads, much as,

much as the, um, the team behind Star
Trek: The Motion Picture was in over their

heads, but what happened on Star Trek: The
Motion Picture is they spent way too much

money to dig themselves out of that hole.

Here, they just didn't dig
themselves out of the hole.

They accepted the poor,

Rob: I, I love the, the shuttle coming in.

I love the smoke underneath it
and they, they start walking

out even before it lands.

I think that's

Kevin: Yeah.


Rob: I do like how Scotty's developed
this, this uniform now of the white

skivvy underneath with the black vest.


They've each got their own
kind of little bit of a look.

Kevin: So this is, um, you know, the,
the glitching computer in the turbolift.

Again, the, like the broken Enterprise is
a bad move, cause Star Trek III was about

feeling the absence of the Enterprise and
right at the end they give it back to us.

And I think they, they just got too
original, they got too creative.

Rob: Right there we did hear, uh,
Leonard Nimoy go, yeah, instead

of yes, which is very unspock
like for me, Spock going, yeah.

Kevin: Uh, the woman here with the, with
the yellow, um, cord on her shoulder

there, that is William Shatner's
real life daughter, playing a cameo.

And the admiral on the screen is
Harve Bennett, producer of this

and many other Star Trek films.

I like Go Climb a Rock.


Rob: Look, I love that combo.

If I ever was to do a classic era, um,
uh, cosplay, I do like that jacket.

I do like that.

It's, like, it's a recreational
Starfleet jacket with the,

with the t shirt underneath.

Kevin: Yeah.

That's a good combo.

Rob: I never was a big fan of
Shatner's setup, the clothing

that he wore in, um, Star Trek IV.

That was kind of a carryover from Star
Trek III, the weird button up thing

and the weird pattern on the front.

This is kind of the same thing that
Scotty wore, and I do like that.

I'm talking fashion of, uh, the 23rd

Kevin: It's worth talking about.

I was just looking at McCoy.

There was a quick shot of McCoy
there before where you could almost

read the labels on his denim jacket.

And, uh, I wanted to see
what brand he was wearing.

Rob: Harve does really well.

Kevin: Who Harve?

Rob: Have BHarvett.

He did well.

Kevin: Walk around the bridge.

End of speech.

Let's go to work.

This is good stuff.

Rob: Klingon.

Kevin: Yeah.

Muster, mister.

Rob: Must've Muster, mister.

Kevin: This is good stuff.

So this has this feeling of the crew
coming together and making stuff happen.

And that feels That feels real.

All his water bottles say NCC 1701.

I want one of those water
bottles for the record.

I miss my old chair.

And sad Spock.

Rob: Spock genuinely looked upset
before going, I'm really sorry, captain.

I do love that blending
of civvies on the ship.

So when you've got like the jeans and the
Federation jacket, I do like that combo.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: She really does
have wonderful muscles.

Kevin: Pah Haha

Rob: He does too.

I mean, yeah, there should be love given,
like, just the, the leather singlet top

vest is, uh, not often seen in Klingons.


Kevin: She's wearing a lot of makeup.

I don't feel like we've ever
seen a, uh, a female Klingon

wear that much makeup before or

Rob: Klingon kids today, Kevin.

Kevin: Oh, this kills me.

The popping out boing.


Someone spent a lot of time
on that prop as well as that

hairstyle of that young woman.

Rob: It's a, it's a very, it's a very,
like, 60s original series hairstyle.

Kevin: Yeah, the, the beehive.

General Korrd.


Rob: A

Kevin: I like that building, building
up the, building up the character there.

It doesn't amount to much, but it's good.

They don't talk about Sinjin, whatever
his name is, David Warner's character.

No praise for him.

Rob: Is he just hanging out?

Kevin: I heard he smokes
a lot of cigarettes.

Very not Romulan, this performance.

Rob: No, not at all.

Kevin: She, that actor has never
seen an episode of Star Trek with a

Rob: we go.

Kevin: Hey, so Spock
recognizes his brother.

And chooses not to say anything.


Perhaps I have.

I will not explain it to you now,
for that would spoil the film.

Rob: No, we need to build up the drama.

Kevin: Like, literally, what
is the next thing that happens

in that moment on the bridge?

Perhaps I have, Captain.

And Kirk goes, oh well.

Rob: I love those pants.

I love the classic movie

Kevin: the silhouette, yeah.

That, that, that outfit was designed for
the silhouette it would have in that shot.

Rob: with the boots and the,
I do want Kirk's jacket.

I'd love it.

Kevin: Young student.

He was

not my brother.

Rob: I do like the, uh,
inclusion of the ship's

Kevin: The ship's wheel?

Rob: Wheel.


Kevin: Yeah,

Rob: Roddenberry would have
hated it because he didn't like

the connections to the Navy.

Kevin: yeah.

Rob: love the seafaring references.

Kevin: This was I believe a redress of
Ten Forward and a lot of the corridors

are, you can, when you look at them you
realize they are Enterprise D corridors.

Rob: This is where they started,
yeah, from Star Trek V and VI, they

redressed, um, Next Generation sets.

Kevin: Yeah, because they were there.

Rob: Cheap.

It's got the compass, I
think, on the side, or the

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: Star reader,

Kevin: The sextant.

I want a, I want a super cut of
all the times Uhura pretended to be

having transmission difficulties.

Rob: She repeats the exact same words
that the captain says really well, and

she adds her own little flair to it.

Kevin: So the Bird of Prey is established.

It is a plot point later in the film
that they forget that the Bird of Prey

is coming because they're so caught
up in everything else that's going on.

So this, uh, shuttle rescue mission

Rob: The desert

Kevin: Uh.

Yeah, this is, conceptually,
I like everything that's

happening, like, plot wise.

I love the idea of them going on a
commando mission to rescue them with a

shuttle, but none of this is pulled off.

Ugh, it looks cheap, and not just
a special effects shot, like,

they built that, they built that
city in the desert and it looks

like a terrible matte painting.

Rob: It looks like a horrible matte.

I'm there going, that's a matte painting.

Kevin: Um, yeah, uh, and the desert
jumpers, yeah, those, those, uh, if

we did a, um, a ranking of Starfleet
uniforms, those brown desert jumpers

would have to come in pretty low.

Rob: But I like how they have a different
outfit to go on guerrilla missions.


Kevin: And it must be somewhat
practical, like it's more camouflage

than a maroon vest, I guess.

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: But it doesn't look
particularly comfy in the desert.

It looks pretty snuggly.

Rob: Klingon doing, um, Chekov
doing very good captaining here.

Kevin: Oh yeah, I love,
I love Chekov as captain.

Not the first time.

Star Trek II, he was under the, uh,
the control of Khan, pretending to

be the commander of the Enterprise.

I don't think we've ever seen Pavel
really be captain, like be responsible

for the decisions being made.

We've only seen him be
the warm body in the seat.

Rob: We have to get their attention.

Kevin: What do you think of the fan dance?

Rob: Look.

Uhura, Nichelle Nichols can do no wrong,
even if it's, you know, a very Bugs

Bunny way to distract the bad guys.

Kevin: Yeah.

I don't think there is a version
of this scene that is great, but

I think there are versions of
the scene that could be better.

Uh, a lot of this falls down for
the same reason that everything in

this segment falls down, is just
like, the production looks cheap.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: Uh, I don't know if filming
at night is hard or what, but

Rob: and Uhura wasn't actually on
the shuttle, so they would've had

to spend another couple of hours
to get her down just to dance,

Kevin: No, no, surely
she was on the shuttle.

I don't know.

We can't go back and look.

We'd have to watch it again, Rob.

She did her hair especially
for the occasion.

Rob: Mm hmm.

Kevin: That would have taken a while.

Rob: Oh,

Kevin: Oh no!

Rob: Uh, did I actually hear them
say as they were moving forward?

I thought I heard one of
them say, she's naked.

I swear, I swear one of
them said, she's naked.

Yeah, they had a good lookout,
if you know what I mean.

Kevin: Security failure.

One more in a long line of
Star Trek security failures.

Open the gate!



Rob: Hold your horse, captain.

Kevin: Yes.

I like the, the, the tricorder strapped on
the shoulder and like that's a cool move.

Whoever came up with that
was pay them extra, more of

the, uh, blue, horned horses.

Rob: Sulu doing really well.

I wonder if that's George Takei
actually running, running the

Kevin: Uh, I doubt it.

Rob: Well, that's not George.

But he rolls

Kevin: shoot.

Rob: I like how

Kevin: like,

Rob: off.

Kevin: yes,

Rob: off to show that it's actually

Kevin: to shoot.

See my face, it's me.

Rob: I want you to bloody

Kevin: me Yeah.

The, um, the fact that the phaser beam
moves, that's a particularly Star Trek

original series effect of, like, it's
not a locked off phaser and it's not

that you hold the phaser and shoot
and the beam is completely stable.

Like, if you move your phaser,
the beam changes its aim with it.

It makes them look more dangerous.

The fact that you could like sweep a
room with it if you weren't careful.



Rob: The shields?

Love the shields.

Kevin: The shields are cool.

The phaser hits, I could have
been done better, but I love

the beams and I love the props.

Like them better than the pew, the bullet
version of phasers that we get later on.

I really like the beam.

Rob: I did like Spock Vulcan neck pinching

Kevin: Yes, of course.

Pinching the horse.

She's back in her uniform on the shuttle.

All right, Kirk goes in and he's
about to have his wrestling match

with the three breasted cat lady.

Rob: Many naughty lines I could
say here, but I won't, cause

we are a respectable podcast.

Kevin: There she is.

Lots of animal sounds in
this, trying to sell it.

She makes bird sounds, she makes
cheetah sounds, she makes lion sounds.

Rob: And there's a little
bit of James Brown in there.


Kevin: The, uh, salesman on the TV
is particularly Next Gen season one.

Rob: That's a lot more water.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly!

That's what I'm saying!

How much water is in there?

Rob: Well done, David Warner.

You had very little to do,
but you make each line work.

Kevin: Yeah, and they've captured Uhura in
the shuttle somewhere along the way here.

Bones has never looked more tired.

You can feel that this
was a real night shoot.

Mm hmm.

Rob: There's Nichelle.

Kevin: So Spock's collar is closed
at the front and, uh, Kirk's

Rob: The others are

Kevin: the front, yeah.

Maybe he wears it backwards.

It looks cool.

Rob: Oh, It's Sybok

Kevin: Sybok!

Kirk's like, what?

That's a good Spock line.

Rob: That's awkward.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: Oh,

Kevin: I like how Kirk was
just watching the movie there.

He's like, what's the next guy gonna say?

Leonard Nimoy, they
did not pay him enough.

Rob: No.

Kevin: They probably did, but
they did not pay him enough.

Rob: Well, if he wasn't being paid enough,
then the others definitely weren't.

He is charming.

He is so

Kevin: is very charming, yeah.

Rob: Oh, he was so convincing as captain.

Kevin: Some good alien makeups
in the background there.


There you go.

That is a wrap on Nimbus 3.

Rob: a good opening shot.

Why didn't they have
that for the first time?

Cox, no, sorry, Cock, would
you, dear me, Spock, Kirk, and

McCoy came back to the ship.

Instead of seeing the butt end
of it behind them, in front of

the building, that shot was quite
lovely, considering it's not ILM.

Kevin: They may have used
it from another movie.

Rob: Killer cams?

Kelly cams?


Kevin: Kellicams, yes!

I don't know if this is the
first mention of Kellicams,

but, uh, it's not the only one.

We've had a couple of mentions of

Rob: Is it a specific Klingon Is
it a Klingon measurement, or just,

Kevin: Yes, it's the Klingon
measurement of distance.

Rob: Kellicams.

Kevin: Yeah.

Oh, he did something for real.

Rob: He's good, he's actually good there.

Kevin: He's good.

I want Captain Chekov now.

Everyone wants Captain Sulu.

Rob: Chek—

Kevin: So, yes, the ship not moving,
the shuttle looking very cheap.

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: And again, the ship not moving.

So this is another, like, um,
first of a starship in a window

with a moving camera in the scene.

But it doesn't work because
the perspective doesn't shift

when the camera moves around.

So you can tell it's just kind of a
backlit image there in the near distance.

But yeah, there, the Enterprise out
of, uh, out of focus over his shoulder.

Kirk's, uh, collar is
different than everyone else's.

Rob: He is the captain.

Kevin: It's like, dammit, I
don't care about regulations.

Open my collar.

I'm not just the director, I'm the actor.

I'm the captain, dammit.

Let me do something.

Rob: I can climb rocks.

I can sing.

In harmony.

Kevin: I like the red.

B as in barricade.

Again, this is like,

Rob: That's very cool.

I love that.

That's very cool.

Kevin: It's It can't be serious.

And suddenly they all know, like,
the secret code of Barricade.

Like, I don't know.

It's got the shape.

It's like someone did a rough draft
and then they never polished it.

Rob: No.

Kevin: These sections of the script.

Rob: It's a cool idea that kinda
happens from the earlier films like

in Wrath of Khan where they're kinda
making it up as they go along and

they do certain things like that, but
Yeah, It isn't polished and refined.

Kevin: Yeah, yeah.

I like what they're going
for, but they There's not the

attention to detail to achieve it.

Uh, I like, I like anytime Sulu does
something for the first time and

looks like he has grave misgivings.

I don't know.

I just do the orders.

Zoop, zoop,

Rob: Lowering shields.

Do do do do do do.

Kevin: Whoosh.

I think the only thing that sells
it is the fact that these, like

these crash things, you can tell
they did some of this for real.

So it gets points for that,
like it feels tangible.

But it doesn't actually
feel fast or dangerous.

Rob: And that's so,

Kevin: The slowest warp
takeoff I've ever seen.

Rob: Oh, it's like they've literally
had cutouts and they've got little,

Kevin: Yeah, everything's
hanging on a string.


Rob: do like the net.

I like the sound of the net going up.

That was a good

Kevin: Oh yeah.

Yep, yep.

Very quiet in the crash shuttle.

That rock gun again.

I feel like if you're Kirk on your
own ship, you would say, I can

afford to get shot by a rock gun.

I'll take that hit, if it's the difference
between my ship getting kidnapped or not.

They'll fix the rock gun shot.

Ow, that stung a bit.

Rob: I'll take the annoyance.

There we go.

Kevin: that, uh, Vulcans are
meant to be super strong.

Rob: Yeah, humans are quite, you know,
weak compared to the strength of the

Klingons, strength of the Vulcans, uh,

Kevin: Again, the, the, the wire work
of Kirk being flung around there was not

super convincing, but I like a reminder
that Vulcans are alien and different

With the rock.

Good line, well delivered, the shoot him.

Rob: There's many things
he could have done.

Just not shoot him.

Like, there's not just A and B.

Kevin: But when your captain
yells shoot him, I feel like

you should shoot him, you know?

Rob: Hmm.

Kevin: Maybe it's cause it's his brother.

Rob: But like, did you punch him out?

Do you Vulcan neck pinch him?

Do you, there's many
ways to subdue someone.

Kevin: Yeah, there's a sense of like,
there's some childhood bullying at

play here, Spock's uh, being triggered.

know no such thing.

And this guy from the, the hole in
the desert, he didn't get any more

lines after the opening the gate, but

Rob: And he was very good in the opening.

He's very good in the opening scene in
his hand gestures when he says you're

a Vulcan, and the tilting of the head.

Very good.

Kevin: Yeah.

Do you wish you got to see the, Uhura

Rob: wish you'd seen all
of their, all their fears,

Kevin: At the start of the movie,
we got a gratuitous fanservice

scene with every single character.

And then we are robbed of what I feel
like would be the true character revealing

scenes that the plot would afford us here.

So again, the tone, this is the
Star Trek IV tone creeping in here.

Be changed.

How many times have I been directed
in an improv scene to be changed?

Kirk is not changed by the
news that Spock has a brother.

Rob: I have a half brother.

There he is.

He's changed right there.

Kevin: It's, yeah, he's hamming
it up, unfortunately, and

Rob: It is.

Kevin: so no one can tell him to stop it.

There are two, uh, Kirk's
at this point in the canon.

There's the serious, stately
warrior, um, and then there's

the, like, bumbling comic relief.

And they try to live in
the same man in this film.

Rob: Yes.


I think it's Shatner definitely wanting to
lean in more going, I'm, I can be funny.

I'm funny

Kevin: got the laughs in the last film.

Rob: Yeah, that scene, it's a detriment to
the scene that they played it for laughs.

Well, he was playing

Kevin: It was in the
script too though, right?

Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin: That or they changed it.

Rob: But, um, yeah, DeForest Kelley
and, uh, Leonard Nimoy are playing

it straight, but he's definitely
trying to milk as much out of it.

Kevin: Yeah.

And De gets some comic lines, but that's
always been his role in the three of them.

You want me to hold him,
Jim, I think is a funny line.

Rob: That's a great.

You want me to hold him?

Come on.

Okay, you want to knock

Kevin: But

Rob: Okay, I'll do it.

Kevin: Kirk should have been the
one to say this isn't a laughing

matter, but it ends up being Bones.

Nice escape sequence.

Rob: That's very high roof.

Kevin: Yeah.

This is a nice clown scene.

Again, playing it straight, but it's
funny because they're playing it straight.

Rob: This is the dimensions of a
starship kind of out of whack just for

the gag, like, having a roof that tall,

Kevin: uh huh.

Rob: didn't really have roofs,
you know, ceilings that high,

Kevin: the brig, you know.

Rob: It is the brig, so most of the
brigs we've seen, they're very low.

Like barely low ceiling.

The only high ceilings we see are down
in the docking bay or the cargo hold.

Kevin: You might have to imprison
a Nausicaan or something.

Oof, those warp trails.

They just did not have the time or money
to say, not good enough, do it again.

Rob: It's weird, like Sybok,

Kevin: This is very, uh, sorry,
this is very Enterprise D.

They did nothing to
redress those hallways.

What were you saying?

Rob: Just like having, having Sybok on
set just makes it look more, I don't

know what it is, it looks more TV show
esque, but when you had him out on

location or stuff like that, it really
had that reality to it, which was good.

But now it just feels like we're on

Kevin: I feel like it's the lighting.

Cause you can do a bridge set
and make it feel cinematic.


Rob: The lighting is very bright.

I mean, we are used to Star Trek
IV, which we've just come from

Kevin: You can see his shadow
when he gestures against the wall.

You can see his shadow there and
that feels like, I don't, I'm no

expert in lighting, but when you
can see the Vulcan's ges, shadow,

shadow against the background of
the bridge, something's gone wrong.

But yeah, this bridge feels
very small and non cinematic.

It seems weird that Spock would
be just realizing that now, even

though Sybok said, You know, I'm
right in the, in the shuttle bay.

Rob: Yeah.

It is more of a

Kevin: logic of these scenes
is just not quite tight.

Rob: It is more a line of exposition
to deliver to the audience as

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: what, Spock would actually know.

Kevin: Could it be the thing I already
know is true rather than false?

Rob: It's a shame they stayed in their
guerilla tactical outfits for so long.

One scene's okay, but, you know.

Kevin: That happens a
lot in Star Trek movies.

They get stuck in the wardrobe that they
were in when they they lost control of,

you know, Star Trek III, they spend the
entire time in the same wardrobe they

were in, or Star Trek IV, spend the
entire wardrobe in because they blew up

their ship and all their clothes with it.

Rob: But yeah, like, Kirk's outfit
in Star Trek IV and most of Star

Trek III, I don't like at all.

It's a weird button up
patterned shirt and, yeah.

Kevin: I like this stuff.

Not everyone likes this
stuff, but I like this stuff.

Rob: This is cute.

Kevin: Yeah, them working together.


Rob: Jimmy Doohan, what a legend.

If he could've sworn he would've,
and I would've been okay with that.

If he dropped the F bomb there going,

Kevin: Alright, so everyone close
your eyes for the next scene,

cause, uh, they do him a dirty.

Scotty goes from being the expert on
his ship to walking into a pipe, and

the only reason is, I mean, I guess they
need him to be knocked out so that Uhura

can wake him up in the sick bay later?


It's not very Kirk to say,
you're amazing, either.

Rob: Yeah.

And the fact that he knocks himself
out and they're still in the corridor,

you can just see them turning?

Kevin: Okay, so my stomach just did
a backflip when I saw this turboshaft

because of the attention to detail
issue that I mentioned earlier.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: You know what I'm
about to complain about?

Rob: The amount of levels?

Kevin: Well, they're climbing from deck
6 to deck 7 to deck 8 as they go up.

And we all know that deck 1 on a
starship is the bridge, and the

lower decks are the high numbers.

So they built this whole set.

And hand painted those numbers on
that wall in the wrong freaking order.

Were there no Star Trek fans
on the crew of this movie?

Rob: Clearly not.

They needed Terry Matalas to be doing

Kevin: thing that I cannot forgive
this movie for, is that the deck

numbers are going the wrong direction.

It's just the moment where I
go, oh, I care more about this

than the people making this.

Because you can tell they were
reusing the same segments of set.

Um, and just changing the sign
that was there, so they could have

swapped the numbers at any time.

It's not like it was something that
was caught after they were painted

and they could no longer change it.

It was, it was, it was
there to be changed.

Nobody cares.

Not even you care, Rob.

I can tell by the look on your face.

Rob: Look, look, it's a sad state
of affairs when a fact like that

takes away from the from the
actual reality of the story.

But it's true.

It's this, this type of stuff does happen.

Kevin: Are they standing
on Spock's feet or not?

That is, uh, inconsistent in these

Rob: There was some
sort of gripping or pad.

Kevin: Oh, man.

Rob: It is a, it is an awkward scene.

Kevin: The rocket boots should
have been taken out of this movie.

I kind of like the banter with Spock
hovering next to Kirk on the rock

face at the start of the movie,
but the fall and then this entire

business with the turboshaft, the

Rob: If they'd taken that out, it would
give you more freedom to add in more stuff

where we actually see the fear of each

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: crew member,

Kevin: Oh yeah, this is something
else the Romulan lady gets to do.

She gets to pretend to
be Starfleet Command.

That is some vague coordinates.

Again, our coordinates are
zero, zero, zero, mark two.

That is meant to give Starfleet
Command everything they need

to find the Enterprise in
the wide swath of the galaxy.

Rob: So many zeros.


Kevin: I mean, I guess zero, zero, zero,
if you were, because we know the sun

is on the line between the alpha and
beta quadrants, which could be zero,

zero on some sort of coordinate system.

And if they're traveling straight
towards the center of the galaxy, that

might explain all the zeros, right?

Rob: think there's some sort of
justification there that we can

always make ourselves feel better
about that we can believe it.

Kevin: We should talk about this scene
though, because this is, this is one

of the good bits of this movie and

Rob: Mm hmm.

Kevin: the lighting's gotten better.

Rob: That's much better
lighting, isn't it?

Kevin: Imagine this with
the bright TV lighting.

Oof, that would not work.

Rob: And how it shifts into the flashback
moments is really beautifully done.

It's not like a fading of the,
you know, dissolving of the light.

It's like as if they're there and
they step in out of the light.


Kevin: Yes.

So, it's worth noting the background here
is a moving starfield, but that's going

to change throughout this scene as well.

Okay, so here's the payoff
of Scotty bonking his head.

Scotty dear.

So, Sybok, we are given to believe has
not only turned Uhura to his cause,

but the truth she, he has made her
face is her love for Scotty, I guess.

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: Very tactile.

I like to touch the set.

Kevin: This was, uh, this was, this must
have been his audition scene, you know?


A strange thing for a Vulcan to say.

I don't know what the light below them is.

They're leaning over something
that is lighting their faces

Rob: table, they raised up to

Kevin: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
the communications station.

That's good.


Rob: good, DeForest Kelley.

Kevin: Yeah.

Yeah, so, I said earlier that,
like, Sybok's power is vague.

This is as specific as
it gets in this scene.

We actually get to live the
experience through McCoy and Spock.

Oh, DeForest Kelley doing great work.

The backing away.

So good.

Oh, makes me feel it.

Rob: good.

Look at that.

I like, I love that shift.

That's all done, you
know, on the actual set.

Kevin: Oh yeah.

That's just like a backlit
matte painting or whatever.

But, uh It works.

Step into my scene.


I wish we knew his name.

Again, these scenes work because
of the strength of the acting

and the theatricality of this,
of the set and all of that.

And it works really well.

But I think there's, there's
opportunity for even more.

Oh, the rain on the window,
I've never noticed before.

I'm with you, Dad.

There's In these scenes we, in some ways,
find out more about these characters

that are archetypes most of the time.

We see some specifics and it
makes me want for even more.

I wish I knew his dad's name.

I, like, even if it was just
written on a panel next to the bed.

I wish I knew what city that was.

Rob: Yeah.


Kevin: I wish his dad called
him something other than son.

I wish he called him Leonard or
Lenny or something, you know?

Rob: mean, yeah, I mean, there is,
it's, it's quite, you know, just son,

father, and it's so powerful, but
they are, they're just little hints

and elements just to individualize
it and make it not so generic.

It would have been even more powerful,
that's how, you know, actors make

it work, good actors make it work.

But it could have just been that
little hint more into, a bit

more of an insight into Lenny.

Kevin: But they do a lot with a little.

That, uh, that device, like is, is
that device part of the vision or is

it something that he carries around?

I want to know, I want to know the
story of that, that device, the turning,

turning off life support device.

Rob: It's a very big illusion.

Kevin: And I am not criticizing
this, I genuinely love this scene.

He's not done yet.


Rob: Well done, DeForest.

And they're taking the
time for it, which I really

Kevin: yeah.

His dignity.

What was the name of the disease?

Oh, the background.

Look, it's the Great Barrier.

Rob: Mm hmm.

Kevin: See episode 49 of Subsurface
Radio for our thoughts, our first

thoughts on the Great Barrier.

We're about to have a lot
more of the Great Barrier.

We'll take together, he
says, and looks away.

That, I love that move
because it cheapens it.

Rob: Yep.


He's ready to move on to the next one.

He doesn't care.

Kevin: On to the next one.

Yeah, we're done here.

We'll take together if
I remember your name.

Rob: Yeah.

That's a great way, great observation.

Kevin: Yeah,

Rob: He turns away, moving on to Spock.

We'll do it together.

Just another one to my cause.

Kevin: I'm in a hurry here.

So this, uh, this little, this little
vignette, less successful in my mind.

I think a bit just because
Spock is less moved by it.

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: Uh,

Rob: And it's also

Kevin: more like a cave painting
to me than something that

Spock gets pulled into as an


Rob: visions with each other.

They just

Kevin: idea, like, how much do the
others see is really interesting.

Again, it's not made clear.

It's left vague.

To the

Rob: Nice gold

fingernails there.

Kevin: Oh yeah, and the,
the Vulcan ears on the baby.

That must not have been easy.

They look very realistic.

Mark Lenard voice cameo.

So it's different because in Bones'
vision it was something, bones

was there to experience the first
time, and he was reliving it.

And this is, I mean, technically Spock
is there, but he lived it as a baby

and wouldn't remember it in person.

And, uh, it feels more
disconnected for that reason.

Uh, I like Bones or Bones playing
the, uh, being right on the edge.

Rob: Yeah.


Kevin: Affected by it and starting
to argue for Sybok, but not wanting

to go against his friends either.

Rob: Love this speech.

Kevin: I know you love this speech.

I kind of love this speech, but
I can't help but wonder what we

would have seen if Sybok had given
an opportunity, had been given the

opportunity to show Kirk something.

I feel like this, this script is
afraid to go there with its captain.

Star Trek has, especially in this era,
is so precious about its captains.

When Kirk falls off his chair in
Star Trek III because David is dead,

there was a lot of talk of like, the
captain never falls out of his chair.

Rob: Oh god.

Kevin: Then, like, no matter
how many torpedoes are being

thrown at the ship, the captain
never falls out of their chair.

That is a line we do not cross.

And then they cross that line and
it was meant to be a big deal.

I feel like this is, this scene is
another Kirk won't fall out of his chair.

We're not even going to give him the
opportunity of seeing him knocked down

by whatever vision Sybok would show him.

Rob: We see a little bit of that in
Star Trek II and III, definitely.

We see the pain, and we see
it in VI as well, you know.

It's interesting the one that, um,
Kirk, that, um, you know, uh, Shatner

doesn't direct, that they do a lot
more exploring of the weakness of him.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: So you

Kevin: And I don't think it's, I
don't think it's William Shatner who

doesn't want to go there because he
is so quick to, um, be the butt of

the joke in all the rest of this movie
that I don't think he is worried about

preserving his status as captain.

I think it's just either the scriptwriter
didn't know what to do with that

scene or Star Trek had a rule of you
won't make the captain look weak.

Rob: Yeah.

And probably not, I don't know.

Well, I have, I'll have to find out
more about the actual screenwriter.

But like when you've got
Nicholas, it's the Great Barrier!

Kevin: I forgot the Great Barrier
was green, ever so briefly.

The green is passing over us.

No more green.

Rob: I kinda like the effects.

Like, it's like the
paint and liquid type of,

Kevin: Yeah.

Here on the bridge, uh, the lighting
has improved, but all of the

barrier lighting is added in post.

Like, it's not actually flickering on
their face and casting shadows, it's

Rob: and you can see

Kevin: frame post lighting and we got

Rob: That kind of stuff I like.

That, That, is kind of weird.


Kevin: The smoke tank.

Rob: The lightning, eh?

Kevin: Yeah, the lightning
looks cheap, hand animated.

Like camera shake that is not actually
making them unsteady on their feet.

What's going on at the
top of the frame there?

There's like some kind of crunch, crusty
cruft at the top of the Great Barrier.


So there's a lot of music, and there's
a lot of flickering, and a bit of

camera shake, and then they're through.

That's it.

Rob: That's it.

Kevin: They didn't even do anything.

Like, there was no orders given.

There was no sweating
the shields or anything.

I guess we are given to believe that Sybok
was given a vision and the, the alien

that lives on this planet dissipated the
barrier in order to let them through.

Rob: Yeah, there wasn't even that
much of a massive challenge or threat

Kevin: No, and maybe, usually there
is, but on this day, where If Sybok

knew to come here, there wasn't.

And it's a good example of a plot
happening to our characters rather than

them being active participants in it.

Rob: Exactly.

It's like a, it's an old writing
problem you have when you're a kid.

You just want to get
to the exciting stuff.

When you're writing, when you're
a young kid writing for the first

time, you go, Oh, do I have to
write them getting to the location?

I just want to get there.

It seems the case going, let's do
some flashlights and I'll do it all

in description and just get through
it so we can get to the space.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: Get to Sha Ka Ree.

Kevin: Heheh.

Qui'Tu, Vorta Vor.

I don't know why a human would
think this was Eden, because Eden

is meant to be a place on Earth.


Rob: Look at Chekov.

got this big smiley grin
on his face going, hey,

Kevin: didn't see it.

Rob: whole

Kevin: captain's back.

I don't have to be captain anymore.


bit of focus issues there.

Must have been awkward, them all
standing behind that railing.

Rob: That's, yeah.

I talked earlier about the
positioning of the three shot when

they've arrived at the Enterprise.

That was beautifully done.

That was very awkward.

They're all standing on
one side of the ship.

Kevin: I feel like if you're,
if you're behind the railing,

you're a guest on the bridge.

And there's too much of our
crew being guests on the bridge.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: Um, Sybok has changed out of his
Vulcan fineries into a white bathrobe.

Rob: as everyone is now in
their traditional uniforms and

thank heavens they've got out of

Kevin: Yeah.

Everyone took a moment to change.

Take a shower before they go down to Eden.

Rob: Had a shower, yeah,
got themselves cleaned up.

If you're gonna go see God, you gotta, uh,

Kevin: So, Sha Ka Ree from space was
that it almost looked like a chrysalis,

like it looked half transparent.

A, uh, a globe of glass.

And then there's like the purple
mountains effect that slowly resolve

into this midwestern desert scene.

Rob: Is it Monument Valley?

I think, did they film in Monument Valley?

Kevin: That would make sense.

Rob: Everyone filmed in Monument Valley.

Kevin: Or a, um, a cheap
stand in near Hollywood.

Rob: Yes.

If they couldn't get to Arizona,
they just went to California.

Kevin: I half expected a Vasquez Rocks
appearance when I re watched this.


Rob: We'll play it shortly.

Kevin: How about that?

Pour one out for that shuttlecraft font.

The typeface of the shuttlecraft names.

That's from the original series.

That's like, that's a little bit of
60s graphic design that survives here.

I feel like it's one of the last times
we see it before it reappears in Prodigy.

Just as I knew it would be, the land
in the sky, it looks pretty barren.

Rob: It looks very barren.

Kevin: The uh, the script and the,
the obvious tire tracks through

the mountains there, unfortunate.

Rob: There's a, um, a classic moment
in a Doctor Who story called The Three

Doctors, where they're meant to have
a representation of singularity, and

in the script it was a big flame.

And of course, 1970s Doctor Who
budget couldn't afford that, so they

just had a smoke machine puffing up.

And they still kept the script the
same, so there's a moment where

one of the characters has to walk
through it, and they're terrified,

and they turn back and they go, it's
alright, you can walk through it.

I'm going.

Yeah, that's still a leftover
from, from, the flame, as opposed

to looking at a smoke machine
and going, oh, I'm terrified.


So the effect of Sybok looking at
just a barren desert and a plain

sky going, it's just as I imagined.

Kevin: I want to analyze every piece
of equipment strapped to Scotty's belt

Rob: a very big, light,
roddy thing that he had.

I've never seen

Kevin: the same wrench he was
poking under the bridge station

at the start of the movie.

Rob: It's huge.

It's absolutely massive.

Kevin: Add one to the list of bridge
crews watching Star Trek on TV.

And here we go.

Here is the Klingon ship that
no one notices has returned.

Last seen on its way to, oh, last seen
at, uh, Nimbus 3 when they, uh, when they

tried to shoot them and they warped away.

So they just didn't know
they'd been followed.

Rob: It's finding that balance.

You don't want to have to walk
too far because at the end they

got to get back to the ship.

Kevin: Hmm.

But there's, there's a sense, like,
the acting here says, we made it to

that place we were walking towards.

But it, like, they've just walked
over a hill and it looks the same.

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: It's the geography is
quite arbitrary and all the shots

are close because they know they
don't have anything to show us.

Rob: And what they could have
done is just go over with the

Kevin: Yeah, they need a, an
establishing shot or something.

Oh yeah, they could have flown over it.

Rob: Yeah.

Just flown over and go.

Kevin: Yeah.

So yeah, just the internal logic of
this is, miss that tightening up.

Like where did they choose to go?

Did they have an energy reading?


Rob: Yeah, exactly.

Kevin: the energy reading?

Like that would have worked.

That's all it would have taken.


Rob: It is a planet.

And you know, you need to have
some sort of pinpoint, some sort of

accuracy of where you're landing.

Sorry, dude.

Kevin: The regretful
grimace of Spock is good.

Dutch angle.

Weird shot.

At least they're, uh, they're selling it.

They're shifting on their feet.

Rob: A lot of head turns.

A lot of,

Kevin: Yeah.

Look this way, look this way.

We'll figure it out later.

So famously the end of this, like from,
from the shuttle landing onward, this

movie ran out of money, and Uh, had to
be rewritten for something that could

be produced on a much smaller budget.

There was going to be a lot
of visual effects and rock

monsters and things like that.

Um, so much so that every time
I watch this movie now, I am

surprised I don't see a monster.

Uh, because I've, I don't know, because
I read that novel, or I read the comic

book adaptation, or I've just heard the
interviews over the years regretting

the fact that they couldn't do the rock
monster, but I remember a rock monster.

Maybe it's, uh, Galaxy
Quest that's bleeding in.

You remember the rock monster
at the start of Galaxy Quest?

Rob: And that's exactly what the, uh,
The people behind Galaxy Quest want you

to do can you can tell no difference
between Star Trek and Galaxy Quest.

I do like how they shoot the uh pillars
coming up they shoot them in a way so like

from behind as they come up shooting down
to give it that scale and the and it's

again like you know Jaws with the whole
don't show everything so quickly yeah hold

back on showing the monster they really
hid so that they could have that final

effect of all the rocks surrounding them,
but shot them in a way so any other way

would have been seen how dodgy they were?

Kevin: They still looked a little
plastery, but at least you could tell they

were there and they were the right size.

They weren't all created in post.

I like the sparkly, uh, the sparkly
sand before this thing shot up too.

Earn your paycheck, DeForest.


You get the sense, like, it's
definitely true for the actor, but you

get the sense that for the character
as well, like, ironically, McCoy

is the most religious of the three.

Rob: That effect's very cheap.

That's very cheap.

Kevin: I was hoping to
distract you from it.

Rob: Oh.

Kevin: I'll say this for it,
at least it casts shadows.

Like, that light is hitting our actors.

It's not the same light, but at least
there was a bright light on set that day.

Very, um, the vision of God as a man
with a, with a curly beard feels like,

it feels like a, uh, a trope that was
just, just about to pass its prime here.

Rob: Does look like it was
used one of those hot curlers.

Kevin: Yeah.

What does God need with a starship?

It's a good line.

I think he makes a bit too
much of a meal out of it here.

He was really looking
forward to giving that line.

Rob: Yeah.

Don't you know?

Kevin: I want to like it because
the Star Trek of it is great.

Look, if there is an almighty God,
I am open to being convinced, but

the moment I'll see a logical flaw,
I'm not going to go along with it.

Uh, is good.

Like, that is good Star
Trek writing, I feel like.

Rob: It's interesting, the reaction shot
was of two of the supporting characters,

so you look at the Romulan and the
humans shocked about Kirk getting hit,

and I'm going, why would they care?

Kevin: Yeah.


We don't see Leonard Nimoy take the hit.

We only see Kirk and Bones turn.

So this is the culmination of so much
of what Gene Roddenberry wanted to do

in Star Trek in his later years, like,
he wrote, he wrote a script called The

God Thing, the, The Animated Series,
we saw them go and, and, you know, deal

with the question of God and the Devil.

This ultimately, like, captain of
the Enterprise fights God was the,

the last unrealized idea that Gene
Roddenberry had for Star Trek, I feel

like, and here we get to see it play
out, and it's, I want to say, it's

not as bad as one might have feared.

Like, budget issues and production issues
aside, the story denouement here of,

uh, Kirk meets something claiming to be
God and realizes immediately it's a con

because the logic doesn't hold up is good.

This one suits you best because you think
you're God, I guess is the implication.

Rob: Love the smoke going
off, uh, Kirk there.

Kevin: Yeah, it's good.

A good glimpse of what Luckinbill
was doing with Sybok, because he's

playing a very contrasting character
there, you get to see it's not just

him playing himself, he was, he's
playing two different, very different

characters on both sides of this scene.

It's good!

He gets a good ending, Sybok!

I mean, the effects are not good.

This is what I want to remember when
they show us Sybok in Strange New Worlds,

when they show us young Sybok, that this
is, this is the end he's going towards.

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: It'll be

Rob: For me, it's still, like,

Kevin: foreshadow of this.

Rob: watching, there isn't really a
connection between Like, I like the whole

thing, we don't really know what that
thing is hidden behind the barrier that

pretends to be God, I like that idea.

But it's just a case of Sybok's
mission, and this trapped

creature don't really link.

Kevin: don't connect.


Rob: And like, when he says, I'm
here for Sha Ka Ree, he goes,

oh, you're looking for that?

There's no signs of sense
he hasn't reached out to him

or they aren't connected.

There's like two separate storylines
that have kind of just yeah.

Kevin: Did

Rob: Yeah,

Kevin: Sybok here or not?

Rob: there's no connection.

They're going, I summoned you.

I called you here.

It's this case of going, all right, okay.

This is what you're looking for.

Well, I'll, I'll be this for
you now, just to get away.

It's um, yeah, it's, it's
points that don't really have

a connecting, um, thrust, a

Kevin: Yeah,

Rob: connecting thrust?

What am I watching?


Kevin: know, I know what you mean.

It's, uh, it's, uh, the vague gestures of
a Star Trek plot that again just didn't

have that, that time for that final
pass to make it all hold together, feel

like cause and effect was rewarding.

Rob: Like you said, the amount of
times they were leading towards

this point of the, the, you know,
the captain of a starship going

up against God, which is very much
Roddenberry's, you know, play, and it's

there a lot in the original series.

It's, almost a let well, it
is a letdown, it is a letdown.

You have one little overcooked speech,
not even a speech, a couple of lines

from Kirk going, what does God want
with a starship, why is God angry?

Um, yeah, could have been

Kevin: So, is Kirk alone now?

Rob: Is Kirk alone?

Ah, because he isn't, like, he doesn't
have anyone right there next to him?

No, he's not.

He's got his team and his

Kevin: Wow.

That starship did not look good.

It was slightly rotating but it was
otherwise completely two dimensional

and I saw the lighting on it glitch in a
couple of frames and jump off the hull.

David Warner knocked out.

Rob: Captain Klaa.

Kevin: Captain Klaa
with two A's on the end.


Interesting accent.

I love a bit of bridge
viewscreen business.

There's just not enough
of it in this film.

Every time it happens, it's like, oh yeah!

This is what I want.

Damn you sir, you will try.

Interesting move.

That's another like,
Spock's yeah at the start.

You can tell he's grown.

He's, he's mellowed.

Didn't logic him, he, he berated him into

Rob: Connecting back to his rock climbing.

Kevin: So, yeah, this, the floating
head is what, in my memory of this

film, has been replaced with a rock
monster climbing the cliffs behind him.

And it doesn't say anything,
it just goes, ooooh.

Again with the guns.

I'm pretty sure that's the same
effect shot, just with different

lighting, as we got at the

Rob: Star Wars sound

Kevin: when they shot the space garbage.

What'd you say?

Klingon bastards.

Rob: Mm-hmm.

Kevin: That's such a letdown.

Man, I don't know what they could
have done better with it, but, yeah.

He's good.

Rob: I Spo-hawk!

Kevin: It's good that they established
the swiveling chair earlier.

It's a cheap, it's a cheap shot in
the end, but it works in this film.

See, that's how comedy should work in
Star Trek, is Kirk plays the straight man.

Rob: I think the Klingons would've
appreciated a good man hug.

Kevin: Yeah, I think so too.

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: So unfleshed out, those
characters, like that is meant to

be the rewarding end of their arc.

Yeah, there's the muscles.

Rob: She has vonderful muscles!

There's the line.

Kevin: If there's one thing I learned
in 2023 is I did not realize what a

thing Chekov had for Klingon women.

Rob: Mm-Hmm.

. Yes he did.

And, uh, Sulu enabled him.

Kevin: In so many of these scenes,
I don't know what you're looking

at, Rob, but I am looking at
their insignia and their uniforms.

I love how three dimensional they are.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: There was a scene earlier Yeah,
when, when McCoy was like switching

off the life support for his dad,
his arm went down and you could see

just the, the layers of epaulets and
insignias stacked on top of each other.

It was very satisfying.

Rob: But I'm back.

Kevin: That's good.

It's good.

Rob: That's a good moment.

That's good.

Kevin: The little bits of character
we get in this are like, that's the

good stuff at the heart of this movie.

Rob: And especially, you know, you look
at Star Trek II where he looked at the

family that he could have had, or the
family he didn't know he had, um, and

for him to realize, this is my family.

It's a

Kevin: Hmm.


That's, like, for all its faults, and they
are many, this is more of a bad movie than

a good movie, I will say, but, I would
not lose it, like, I wouldn't skip over

it, because you would miss those things.

Rob: I think there's more good
in this, genuine good stuff, than

there is in, say, Star Trek Nemesis.

Kevin: Hmm, yeah.

Rob: Which kind of get, those
two kind of get pulled in the

same banner of hatred or dislike.

Kevin: Yeah.

Nemesis has better production values
than this, but the story and the

character beats are not as strong.

They sell out their characters
in ways this movie doesn't.

Except when Scotty takes
the hit in the corridor.

Rob: So there we go!

Kevin: There we go.

Sir John Talbot is, uh, is
listed there, but, uh, there.

Doesn't come until later on.

David Warner gets higher billing
than the other two ambassadors.

Rob: Well he was quite well established
by this stage, so he'd already done, like,

Time Bandits, he'd done Tron, oh, I'm

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: two.

Kevin: I feel like someone scored
a coup by getting David Warner in

this movie and then they forgot
to write anything for him to do.

Rob: That's the one.

And then they went, you know what?

You want to come back for the next
one so you can actually do something.

Kevin: Yeah.


Rob: So yeah, there we go.


Kevin: a Next Gen and original, uh,
Motion Picture theme here as well.

This would have been quite confusing at
the time to hear the Next, what mainstream

audiences would most recognize as the
Star Trek: The Next Generation theme.

Rob: me as a Star Trek fan at that point?

I was actually quite confused because
I'm there going, hang on, they're using

the music from the, from the TV show.

Oh, it wasn't this season and
I had to go back and watch the

VHS, VHS of the motion picture.

And I had it there.

I'm going, well, why is it
only in these ones and not in.

And so like anytime I really wanted to
hear the theme because I didn't have any

Next Generation videotapes I'd have to
chuck on Star Trek 5 just to listen to the

the opening music because it was they're
going that's really good Star Trek music.

Kevin: Hmm.

Rob: On your Jerry Goldsmith.

Kevin: Well, final thoughts
on Star Trek V, Rob.

Rob: Yeah look the stuff that
works is really, really good.

The stuff that doesn't work it's
it's a it's it's it's a shame that

it's been let down by um cutting
corners on costs um and it it shows

that you know some actors need a good
director just to to to pull them in.

Um, and Shatner is let off on
a leash a bit too much here.

Um, which is a shame.

Um, and a little bit of exploration
of the side characters better than we

have in the other supporting cast, but
then they're kind of left to the side

as our main three go for it again.

Um, but yes, the stuff that doesn't
hold up certainly doesn't hold up at

all, and the plot holes near the end
just, um, just make it kind of like a

forgettable tele movie as opposed to
something they could have elevated.

And they kind of, it's definitely a
criticism on tele evangelists and those

type of people manipulating the pain of
those less fortunate, um, but there could

have been some big swings that could have
hit really well that they didn't really

take, they kind of backed off a bit.

How about you?

Kevin: I, for me, it's, it's kind of
tragic that, I wish I could pin down

this movie to just one thing that it
did wrong, that is the source of all its

problems, and that if you fix that one
thing you can see the good movie that

would exist on the other side of it.

But I feel there's at least three
things that go wrong with this film.

One is it learned the wrong lessons
from Star Trek IV and attempted

comedy when it shouldn't have.

It played it for laughs when it
should have been playing it straight.

Um, and our, our captain was hamming
it up when he was, he shouldn't have

been, and there wasn't anyone on set who
could tell him to, to, to rein him in.

The second is the
attention to detail stuff.

There just was not either time or care
given to do that polish pass that would

make this story hold together, that
would make the details satisfying.

And, uh, the third one is visual effects.

That, uh, you know, ILM
was missing in action here.

And so much of the visuals
are just let down as a result.

The, the, the stuff that should look,
um, convincing looks cheap and like

done on a shoestring, um, and, and
really, especially today doesn't

hold up in an era of digital effects.

These were cheap optical effects,
not even good optical effects.

So, um, all three of those things,
like you could fix any one of them

and it would still be a bad movie.

Because the other two would drag
it down, I feel like, and that,

that's, that's what, um, that's what
I regret most about Star Trek V.

Um, but there is good in this one.

Rob: I agree.

I agree.

There's some good stuff in there and
the good stuff is, is really good.

Um, but the bad stuff really lets
it down and is, yeah, yeah, frankly,

you know, quite embarrassing.

Um, but the stuff that's great, you just
go, oh, if, yeah, if only, if only is

a great way to, to look at Star Trek V.

Kevin: It's part of their story, though.

Like I said, I wouldn't skip it.

If, if someone were watching Star Trek in
order to, to, to get the whole story, this

Rob: they NEED to

Kevin: are, there are
episodes that you should skip.

Because they, they do no
good and plenty of harm.

This one does enough good that it
is worth putting up with the harm.

Rob: Definitely.


It's not one you should skip.

Um, the, the, the plots, the character
beats that move them forward,

realizations, um, you know, the
delving into, um, the past of some

of the cast is, uh, characters is,
is definitely essential, uh, viewing

and you just have to tolerate, um, a
plot that makes no sense and doesn't

really connect and, um, stuff like
that to, to get to the juicy stuff.

Kevin: So are Scotty
and Uhura in love now?

Rob: Um, maybe they didn't, well, we
don't see much of that in Star Trek

VI, so maybe they just had a bit of
a flingy thing, and he doesn't really

talk much about her in his return
episode in The Next Generation, so,

Kevin: No, it is, it is written off in
that sickbay scene that, uh, that she's

under the influence and Scotty needs
to not take advantage of the situation,

but she's pretty flirty at the start
with those chip bags, I have to say.

Rob: Yeah, even at the start they're
flirty, so, um, so, yeah, I think

there's definitely something there, they
just, um, yeah, didn't want to explore

it any further than they needed to.

Kevin: Well, thank you, Rob, and thank
you listeners for joining us in this

viewing of Star Trek V, you know, we
start at the bottom and work our way up.

Rob: Exactly, wait for another 50
episodes and we'll do a really good one.

But we've got Prodigy to watch to build
up that algorithm to pick up those,

uh, viewing figures so that Netflix,
cause they are, they are cold, harsh

people when it comes to viewing figures
and numbers, and if you do not reach

a certain algorithm number, uh, you're
cast aside like yesterday's meal.

Kevin: Yes, indeed.

And I think Discovery season 5 is
still next on the docket in April.


As of now, I, they haven't said
when season two of Prodigy is

going to land on Netflix, but

Rob: No.

Kevin: soon ish.

Uh, I think they want to give season one
the time to land and for people to binge

it and then they'll drop season two.

So we might get Prodigy season two
before Discovery season five, but

one way or the other, we will be
back to discuss them when there is

new Star Trek on our screens again.

Rob: So yes, thank you for
joining us for 50 episodes.

Thank you for joining us for our 50th
episode, and we'll definitely be back

in, uh, we are in 2024 right now, and
we've got Discovery, we've got Prodigy,

we've got Season 3 of Strange New Worlds
is now filming, so, um, the future is

looking bright in the world of Star Trek.

Kevin: Indeed.

Uh, well, I can't wait,
but we'll be back soon.

Bye for now, Rob.

Rob: See you soon!