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You are a business owner who wants to prioritize people and planet over profits (without sacrificing success). That can feel lonely—but you are not alone! Join host Becky Mollenkamp for in-depth conversations with experts and other founders about how to build a more equitable world through entrepreneurship. It’s time to change the business landscape for good!
Becky Mollenkamp (00:01.09)
Welcome back to our fun series, an interesting series that we're doing where we're talking to subscribers to feminist founders who are facing, you know, a variety of challenges in the world of business and life and, and talking to them through what that might look like if they embody some different way of showing up in 2026. So today we're joined by Angela Johnson, who I've known for many years and haven't seen in a few. So it's lovely to sit with her. Um, and I'm wondering if you could tell, tell everyone a little bit about who you are and then
Angela Johnson (00:25.919)
you
Becky Mollenkamp (00:31.136)
What is feeling as we're going into 2026, what's feeling most pinched, most challenging for you?
Angela Johnson (00:38.099)
Yeah, well first thank you so much for the opportunity to be here. So Angela Johnson, she, her, I live on the stolen land of the Goshoot Nation in Ogden, Utah. And a little bit about me, I'm a marketing strategist. Excuse me, I've been in business since 2008, so I've been doing this for a while. But I'm a trauma-informed marketing strategist and all things communication, writing, visual communication are part of that. I'm also an adjunct professor. teach communication at a local university.
So I get to work with a lot of amazing Gen Z students, which is a a newer venture. but my heart's in education, my heart's in, you know, teaching people how to create something more in their life and business. So that's me in a nutshell. And as far as something that is kind of that pinch going into 2026, a couple of things. One is like the last five years of my life have been some of the hardest. And so to see some.
relief from that and inner peace that I've been seeking is very comforting. I'm cautiously optimistic and not that I'm a subscriber to New Year, New You type of energy, but it is really a nice energy to be feeling instead of just total dread. And I think the other piece too is I just don't...
care about so much in the business world. And that can sound the way it sounds, but I just, I think there's so much information to consume and there's this almost like desperation or this kind of like, I have to learn it all. I have to attend this webinar. I have to do all. Actually, you don't. You don't have to do any of that. If you don't want to be on social media, you don't have to be on social media. Like you don't have to do...
all the things and marketing can be so simple, business can be so simple. And so I think there's this final, final, that's not the most accurate word, but this layer of really letting go of where I still think I should be doing all those things because that's the conditioning and really embodying. I actually don't have the capacity to care about all of those things or any of those things. And then we get back to basics.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:47.81)
really important.
Angela Johnson (02:56.361)
really live from that place and how simple can I make and allow everything, everything in my life, my business, teaching, relationships, creativity, all the things. So it feels a bit strange to be just like, I just don't have the energy to care about the latest marketing trends or business trends or AI trends.
Becky Mollenkamp (03:20.192)
Where are the shoulds? Where are the shoulds? Because on the other side of this, just hearing you, you sound fairly set in that. What sounds like a decent deal of confidence around like, I just don't care and I'm done and we don't need those things. So where does the should still live?
Angela Johnson (03:30.6)
Yeah, yeah.
Angela Johnson (03:35.987)
Yeah.
Yeah, this should still come from, you know, when my income dips and I'm like, maybe, okay, wait a second. And recognizing that old conditioning of if there's any sort of shortcoming or any sort of failure, my tendency is to blame myself and what I'm not doing right and what I don't know rather than
let's actually look at the systems that are played, like that I'm a part of here. Let's look at the world around me. Let's look at what's happening that is completely out of my control. And so that, and I think that, I mean, that's been a wound and I don't know that that will stop, but that's what I would say the biggest should is my default has been, me like, what am I doing wrong? Rather than
this is just what the natural experience of when I divest from these systems and the hustle culture and all the things, it feels strange. It feels sometimes a bit like empty or maybe I am doing this wrong because there's so much modeling out there that is telling us we're doing it wrong. So I think that's the biggest should.
Faith Clarke (05:00.398)
What's an example of a place in your business right now where you're most vulnerable to that should, where that emptiness may show up? Because yeah, when we're getting rid of old stuff and we haven't rebuilt or built the new stuff, then there is that odd in between that, know? So what's an example of a spot where you are vulnerable to that kind of self-blame right now in your business?
Angela Johnson (05:28.839)
Yeah, think the biggest, I mean, I've been doing, I've been in business since 2008. We're going on 17, 18 years. And I think there's still that comparison of I should be farther ahead by now. Like I should not be having to figure this shit out again. Like, isn't this what I was promised of like you put in a lot of hard work at the beginning and then...
And we can see this pattern in the thing that comes to mind. from Utah. So there's a lot of religious conditioning with that. Do all the things right, and then you will get your reward. And I think that same kind of conditioning is like, and I've even had mentors early on, like you will work, you should work harder for the first year. So then you can enjoy the rest. then like, OK, and I bought into that for a long time. So I would say that's like the.
Yeah, that spot of just that self judgment that comes up when it's like, it's not, it didn't go great this month or this last quarter, or I should have done more instead of looking at, well, actually, I really needed some rest or, by the way, all these other things that were happening in my life and they were tended to with care.
that also matters. And so I think it's really deconditioning that the only focus or the only marker of success is income and the status that you can show on Instagram.
Faith Clarke (07:08.118)
I hear you saying that the thing that may trigger that is income dropping. Or maybe, I don't know, is there anything else that could trigger that?
Angela Johnson (07:14.783)
Bye.
Angela Johnson (07:19.295)
You know, yeah, I'm glad that you asked that question So I'm a late diagnosed neurodivergent person and the reason I mentioned that is The other thing that triggers that is when I have a lack of follow-through It's like I have this really big idea this big vision, which that's me Like I have more ideas than I have the capacity to do at all given times because my brain does not stop
And so when I don't hit those goals, which are often unrealistic expectations, I'm like, I'm a solo entrepreneur. do not have a very part-time virtual assistant. That's it. And so when things, it's not even matter of if, when I don't hit the mark on most things, because the list is this long and the capacity is this much, I have to be very conscious of.
knowing that that's the way my brain works and the way that it wants to do all the things. And I also have to balance that with what is realistic, what do I have the capacity for? And just because it's giving me that dopamine hit, do I actually care about it? Does it actually matter to me? And so I've been learning to give myself a lot more space and a lot more grace in that of...
but what really matters instead of, it's an idea because my brain is seeking dopamine, but does it actually matter to me? Do I really care about this? Because when I know that I can get to that, and it sounds so cliche, like that deeper why of why this matters to me, then that will be the thing that carries me through when my brain does run out of dopamine. It's like, okay, I have an anchor instead of this chasing hustle type of mentality with it.
Faith Clarke (09:10.35)
So what's an example of a moment when it was easy for you to get out of the self-blame? Like it happened and then you were able, what was going on in the environment that made that easy versus the other times when it can be harder?
Angela Johnson (09:26.963)
You know, I am a big fan of parts work and that's been a big part of my practice for the last several years. And I would say that was the number one thing that I can go to parts work. And also that's connected to once you see like when you have a systems approach, like you see the systems at play here and I'm talking about all the systems, patriarchy, capitalism, white supremacy. When we see that this is the water we're swimming in, this is the air that we're breathing.
it allows me to have a pause of when I internalize that and I blame myself, I am absolutely operating from those systems. So to have language for what's really happening I think is very helpful. And then the parts work of just knowing it's like, okay, this is a part of me that has been very well developed of I go to self blame first and foremost.
All the conditioning, I know all the reasons why, but when I can actually say the words, I that's a part of me. Instead of this is who I am or really believing that that's my identity, recognizing it's a part of me, that is a shift that I can get back. I now have choice instead of just a default pattern that is so incredibly difficult.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:46.914)
What's the part? Because I know often there's like a naming of the parts.
Angela Johnson (10:52.551)
You know, it's so many. It's not even just like one. You know, I think when people think about parts where sometimes it's like, it's inner child work. It's like one part. And it's like, I don't see it that way. I mean, it's many parts, but there's.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:07.97)
think I meant more what's the part that's that voice, that's the voice of saying you should have done more.
Angela Johnson (11:12.893)
Yeah, it's, I mean, it's, have you read the book or heard of the work? I just am now remembering the name of the book. It's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. So there is a concept and here's why I'm mentioning it. So I'm going to get to your question, but I think there's some context that would be helpful. So the author is talking about they're really kind of too operating.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:30.242)
I'm really in that.
Angela Johnson (11:38.432)
modalities. One is an internalizer where something happens and the conditioning has presented itself that it is your fault. And so we see this systems, you know, conditioning is also our family conditioning. And then an externalizer and those externalizers are really great at projecting their problems onto everyone else. I'm an internalizer. That was the role I've had in my family since the day I was born. So when something happens, then I internalize that and go, what could
do to fix all of these things. And so knowing that that's conditioning that many people have, so when you ask like what's the part, it's I think it's very much connected to that conditioning of it was my job for many years to take care of everyone and everything around me. And we look at this again from a societal you know impact of women, caregivers,
We're the ones that people are like, you should take care of this. So when something doesn't work right or I don't hit that mark in my business, all of that conditioning is present. for, you know, I've done work on this for years and it's still a consideration every single time something happens, like every single time.
So don't know if that answered your question or not.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:04.118)
Yeah, Yeah, I just, know sometimes people will say it's like the, you know, we had Amanda Laird on who was the first of these and she also was talking about parts work and this voice of like, for her, the voice that was challenging is this, you need to do more, you got to get more done, whatever. And for her, it was like this internal manager kind of person, right? It's always there managing her, watching her every step, making sure she's doing everything quote unquote, right? So was curious if it had that kind of a thing for you, but.
Angela Johnson (13:22.397)
Yeah, yeah.
Angela Johnson (13:27.241)
Yeah.
Yeah, there definitely is like the manager part, the protector part. You know, this is using some language from IFS, internal family systems, which can be helpful. And I just know that it's this thing that will just likely be there forever. And now that I have language word, I now can have more conscious choice instead of just going into the default, which I think is the key. I think that's another illusion of just like, when we heal, then it's like no longer an issue. And it's like,
No, it's not that we forget, like those wounds are still there, but we, they don't control us the way they used to, or we can get back to a more grounded, centered place quicker and easier than we did a year ago.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:16.406)
And I, sorry, go ahead.
Faith Clarke (14:19.756)
curious about which part is not getting enough space in that moment when all the protector manager and other parts come in with the there's a way you're failing to take care of people which part isn't getting to speak up
Angela Johnson (14:35.454)
Mm-hmm.
Angela Johnson (14:40.959)
Yeah, that's a really, you know, and I think it varies. You know, another thought that comes to mind when you're asking that is, you know, talking about parts where we talk and this language often comes up in coaching to like the healthy adult self or in parts work is like the true self. And so where I go to with that question is the part that's not getting the space to speak up is actually the true self. It's like those
those parts that we think are identity are so clouding over our true self or our soul essence or whatever language you want to use for that or healthy adult self. And that's where the conflict is. Because now it's like, this part has strong opinions, but our true self is like, I don't want to live like this anymore. Yet it's been such a way of coping in such a way of managing life or seeing how I see myself in the world.
It's like that's where the conflict is. And so having language for, this is what's happening, it gives space for that true self, that healthy adult self. The part of us that really not only yearns and longs for more ease and gentleness and self-compassion, but knows that it's possible. There's like, there's that thread that's like, I know this is possible, but these parts have likely been so loud for so long that we have forgotten that.
And so I think that's like, that's where my mind goes. When you ask that question is it's like the true self is like, I would like to take up more space and live my life for more curiosity and compassion and creativity and expression. That's available even in the dumpster fire of the world that, you know, we're all experiencing. It's like, there are those spaces that are available to us.
Faith Clarke (16:37.102)
So I'm wondering if the protector and manager and other voices are saying, this is the way you take care of people, have this revenue, what would your true self be saying is the way you take care of people? And what would those markers be?
Angela Johnson (16:50.143)
you
Angela Johnson (16:54.493)
Yeah, mm-hmm.
Angela Johnson (16:58.813)
Yeah, yeah, I love this question so much. I love all the questions. so the true markers of, so how we know that we're in our true self, that's the language I use, true self energy. Richard Swartz, the founder of Eternal Family Systems, he has what he calls the eight C's. I can never remember them, but I know compassion, curiosity, and creativity, connectedness are four of them.
And when those energies are present, those are indicators that you are operating and living from your true self energy. And sometimes, and this has been a little bit of an experiment for myself in the last year, as I've left, I still have social media account technically, but I haven't been there. It's off of my phone. When you talk about that, maybe later, the difference is making, it's blowing my mind. But when I...
Let me back up. total like typical ADHD moment. was like, wait, let me come back, back to the center. So living from creativity, connectedness, compassion, curiosity. So when those energies are present, then I know that I'm tapping into something deeper and into that true self. When those energies are not present, then I know I'm operating from a part of me. And again, just having that language.
for myself has been so incredibly helpful because I'm that internalizer of like, everything's my fault, I have to fix everything. When I can start teasing that out a bit and separating that out and go, okay, so what would creativity do here? What would connectedness, what would compassion, what would curiosity, what would that be like? Sometimes I don't like force it as an, but I intentionally take an action.
that's okay, what would creativity be like with this? And sometimes taking a step, getting some echoing, is that on my, sorry.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:56.226)
and sometimes.
Faith Clarke (19:02.056)
It happened. Something happened with your your stuff, Becky. I don't know. You move something and then OK.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:07.48)
No, I unmuted but I don't the noise was there before I did that so it wasn't me.
Angela Johnson (19:13.801)
funny.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:14.466)
It's probably just somebody's background sounds.
Angela Johnson (19:16.455)
now I know it's now I don't hear it. okay. I'm glad you can see where was I? Sorry, I got
Becky Mollenkamp (19:19.17)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:26.218)
You're saying sometimes you intentionally
Angela Johnson (19:28.799)
yes. Okay. So sometimes I intentionally engage in an activity that will like one force my brain to slow down and really help me remember that I have choice. And so I've been doing a lot of embroidery lately. So it's like, let me unplug, make something with my hands. And for me, I know that when I'm creative and I can make something with my hands, I can get to my true soul or true self, you know, energy and those other parts can just take a little nap.
You know.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:01.378)
How do you bake some of that intentionality into your business and just your day-to-day operating of your business and in your business decisions?
Angela Johnson (20:07.101)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. I for years, I have had a schedule where the last week of the month, I don't do any client facing work. I don't do client facing work on most Fridays. And so I get very regimented in my schedule. And as much as I can create a system for any sort of automations or reminders, then I will use those systems because I don't want to be manually
figuring appointments out or client sessions or anything like that. And then that was really a decision about social media. When I was doing an inventory of areas of my life, reciprocity is a core value of mine. And I started noticing when I start getting resentful and depleted, I know that there's a lack of reciprocity somewhere, whether that's in my marriage, friendships.
family, client, like working with clients, marketing. And I thought, I'm putting a lot of time into looking at social media. And I tell myself it's for the dog videos and, know, embroidery and like art inspiration. I'm spending hours on this platform. Why? What is this doing for me other than doom scrolling? Other than like, and it was just like, huh.
I just don't know that I care about it anymore. And so I just went away from it. And Instagram is really the only platform I was doing. But I just thought, what if I'm not getting a lot of business from Instagram? However, I'm spending hours every day on this platform. I don't, this isn't working. But, and it's not helping my mental health at all.
Angela Johnson (21:56.577)
So what would happen if I didn't? And then I started looking at what does bring me business? Connections, speaking, networking, good old fashioned relationship building, like old school basics. And so it's like, okay, that was that. That was my decision. I, and it's been about a month, so it's fairly new. And the shift in my mental health.
is phenomenal, especially this time of year, we're recording this in December. Seasonal Affective Disorder is something that I've experienced for many years. And so usually this time of year, I'm bracing myself for some really hard months.
And it is night and day difference, night and day difference. Now that's one thing I'm doing, I'm doing other, excuse me, other things as well, but I would say that is a major component of paying attention to what I wanna be paying attention to, supporting my mental health.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:54.178)
Thank
Becky Mollenkamp (23:03.074)
The four words that you had mentioned were curiosity, connectedness, creativity, and compassion, if I'm not mistaken. so I can hear how the exiting social media definitely is helpful for some, maybe it fits in the compassion bucket, compassion for yourself and what you need. But I'm just curious if there are things, ways that you're baking curiosity, connectedness, creativity, and compassion into your day-to-day of your business. If you know that those are the things that help you stay connected to your true self.
Angela Johnson (23:08.327)
Thank you.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:30.592)
and be making choices, decisions, reacting from a place of true self.
Angela Johnson (23:34.849)
Well, I would say the compassion because when my brain goes down the doom scrolling, it's really hard to have compassion for myself. So just eliminating that temptation every single day has been helpful. Ritual parts work practice every day and night typically, or just throughout the day as I need it. But even just starting my day with a few moments of mindfulness. And before I was starting my day on social media, and an hour would go by and just go, what am I doing?
What am I doing? And so the mindfulness is like taking a breath, actually feeling my body breathe. What kind of day do I want to have today? And this sounds so basic, but I wasn't doing this. Like I was just like started my day and going, I don't even feel connected to anything I'm doing. I'm just going through the motions. Why? Why am I doing any of this? And so taking a few moments of mindfulness. And then the other thing that I've been doing is
started also looking at just like how much media, Netflix, whatever I was consuming, does do I feel better after I do it? No, I don't. And so I've been listening to a ton of audiobooks. I did get through all three seasons of Gilded Age over the break in November. So that was fun. But I will just lay there and listen to my stuff and stitch.
And hours will go by and it's like these same hours I could just watch something that is uninspiring I don't care about, but it's just mind like mindlessness. But there's that feeling of ending my day with making something with my hands, which is a passion of mine. Listening to non self development, non business, you know, something fun. And it's just been a big, it's been a really lovely change.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:22.21)
you know
Becky Mollenkamp (25:29.25)
Are they making a difference in the should voice?
Angela Johnson (25:32.097)
Absolutely, yeah. A huge difference. And I think the other piece, because there are still some things that I'm working on, know, some financial goals that have been, that have felt challenging over the last five years of paying down debt and student loans and all the things. But I'm not, like when I think about those things, I am not instantly filled with defeat, self-judgment. It's like, okay, what can I, it's more of a,
Like I'm able to coach myself. like, okay, what's my action this week? What's my action this month? Instead of, don't even know where to start because I'm so overwhelmed and I like hate myself for it. It's like, that's not part of the conversation. It's like, it's overwhelming. And there's just more space. It's like I can make a conscious choice instead of just spinning in that self doubt.
Faith Clarke (26:25.528)
When I think about
Angela Johnson (26:25.81)
And some days are better than others. I'm not saying that I have this dialed in. So that is not at all. I'm hoping no one is hearing that. It's like, yeah, there are days that absolutely still suck. But I figure I've got to give myself every chance possible so it doesn't completely suck.
Faith Clarke (26:45.642)
When I think about a business, an organization, it's like a home. And what I'm hearing you say is that you have you in your home, which is your business, and you've been caring for yourself differently so that your true self has more space. So whether that's you personally off socials and your own work with your hands and your practices, right? And then in your business, you've, you know,
Angela Johnson (27:03.008)
Mm-hmm.
Faith Clarke (27:14.638)
you know that you make money. You can make money without being on social media. So there's a way that the way your true self is being cared for is showing up now in your marketing and possibly in your sales. So my curiosity for 2026 is the rest of your business. Now there is a, would the true self redesign this house? And so,
Angela Johnson (27:41.066)
Mm. Mm.
Faith Clarke (27:43.406)
Your true self has redesigned and is redesigning your marketing. How else if your true self had all the voice that was needed, how else would your true self redesign so that creativity, compassion, what were the other three community connection curiosity? Yeah. How, how would your true self infuse those into your operations in
Angela Johnson (27:52.574)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Angela Johnson (28:03.454)
I think this is.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:04.546)
curiosity.
Faith Clarke (28:13.154)
to your, even what you're measuring. Cause it sounds like the thing you measure is the thing that shuts the true self off and brings manager and stuff back in as you know. So how are the true self based?
Angela Johnson (28:26.206)
Yeah, well, I think, you know, money is a measurement because we have it, we have to have it to live. And so I think there's a reality of this is a component that needs to be measured. And especially as a former money avoider, like I did not, I did not look at my numbers.
And in times of stress, that is a place that it's like, I'll just not do my bookkeeping this month. And then I will be really upset that my past self did that to my future self, come tax time, right? So there are things that it's just like, sometimes like, buck up, buttercup. It's like, you got to still do the bookkeeping and look at the numbers. And it's coming from a different place because I know that when I do that, it creates more peace in my life.
and I have the information to make decisions and I'm not just turning away from actual information and metrics that are required to live and things like that. So I think that's an important piece. But how that true self has already started to redesign is really getting clear on pricing. Like I've raised my pricing recently, which felt scary.
based on the economy that we're in and other things that are happening in the world. And it was really coming from that place of, I have to take care of myself. can't, like, I have to make sure that I am able to take care of myself financially, pay people a great, livable wage, support me. This has to happen. And so then came the decision of, so how can I create accessibility in my business?
What does that look like? What could that look like? And so coming back to, what feels fun for me? What's creative? What helps me connect with others? What's a creative way to do this that I don't have to reinvent the wheel because I don't want to do that. Like I don't want to exhaust myself trying to do something super innovative when it's like, let's just choose simple. So things like hosting a monthly parts work call. It was just like, Hey, let's just get through the holidays together. It's three months. So it's a short commitment.
Angela Johnson (30:37.0)
It's once a month, it was an accessible price, and that's a supplement to the main work that I do. So that was one element. And then, you know, it's a lot of the same practices of, I really like no client facing work on Fridays, like the last week of the month, like what am I doing to build spaciousness in for myself? And especially since I've been teaching, that has added another element. And so I then I'm very
compartmentalized on my schedule, like Tuesdays, Thursdays, school days, Mondays, Wednesdays, client-facing days, Fridays, take a breather and get ready for the next week. And then another piece is I used to work a lot of weekends. Like I just, it would never turn off. And now I'm like, no, I'm just not. I spent time with family. My sister who lives close by, she's got two kids that I absolutely adore and love.
or nine and 13, we do play dates or hangouts as they call them, because play dates for little kids I've been informed. So hangouts, art days, sleepovers, thrifting, the things. And it's like, those are the things that matter. as I redesign, it feels maybe like a redesign, but it feels like a lot of letting go. Like I don't.
And I wonder if this is also something that is for other folks, like perimenopause completely kicked my ass. Like I, it was, and I'm still in it, but a few years ago, like I did not realize how terrible it was. So other things that I'm getting a handle on from a physical level are supporting my ability to feel calm in these decisions instead of.
I hope I'm not making the biggest mistake that I'm actually able to tune into. This is what feels good in my body and not what I should is that's trying to run the show.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:44.182)
You put on your form, and I just want come back to this statement to see where it fits in, which is I'm building a vision of a more equitable life honoring world. And I know my work is part of that transformation. And I'm curious, what are the ways that your work feels misaligned with that right now? Are there ways that your work is not fitting into that vision of the world you're building?
Angela Johnson (33:16.699)
I mean, I've made so much, I've done so much work around that in the last several years, and so I don't know that it feels misaligned.
The thought that occurs to me is, I doing enough to create a more equitable world? And so that, it's sometimes I struggle with that because it is that a lot of that internalizer that I talked about, like it's my responsibility to take care of all the things. And it is my responsibility to keep speaking up and to use my privilege for good and to keep educating myself. Like those are consistent, constant things.
but recognizing that I'm one person and I cannot change the systems. But I can, like for example, like create equitable classrooms. I can use trauma informed practices in my teaching. I can create, I know, accessible pricing. can, you know, really, and also just like staying in my lane and honoring my capacity, because I think that's another piece of.
when I was in like hustle culture so strongly, was so depleted all the time. Like that is not creating an equitable world. Like that is perpetuating the very systems that we are consciously trying to divest from. I don't know that there's, yeah, like an active like misalignment, because I've been doing so much work on that for years. But it feels...
Becky Mollenkamp (34:36.662)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:41.588)
but you feel like you're doing those things right now?
Becky Mollenkamp (34:48.898)
Well, the reason I'm questioning it or I'm just interested is because then it says, if which area of your business or life would most benefit from embodying that statement and you said your mental health and capacity. And so if there's no misalignment, then how would it improve? I'm just trying to understand, cause it sounds like a lot of what you're saying is like, I'm doing all the things, which is great. And I'm, and I'm thrilled and curious then where, where is this
piece of my mental health and capacity would benefit if I were able to more fully embody the statement, if you're already fully embodying it. So I'm just curious, is there some stickiness somewhere where you're feeling like, I'm not fully in this or, I mean, it's great if you're already like, no, everything's good.
Angela Johnson (35:36.519)
No, I don't think that everything's good. I know. I don't know that any light I don't know that will ever be like everything is great. Like that's just not reality.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:39.5)
I mean, I'm with this. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:45.174)
Are there areas where mental health and capacity feel like there's challenges?
Angela Johnson (35:50.688)
I mean, I've made so like in the last two months, because that was probably, I don't know, several weeks that I filled out that form. It was before I left social media. I mean, some of like the mindfulness in the mornings, the creativity at night. It was before I was doing that. so today, like the last few weeks, my mental health is better than it has been in probably two years, at least. And like to feel
Becky Mollenkamp (36:00.034)
Mmm.
Angela Johnson (36:21.107)
true hope for
just like feeling like knowing that I will like I can feel good. And it's so strange to be saying that when I am paying attention to the world. Like there's a lot of terrible things that are still happening. And so it feels strange to be like, how am I feeling this fulfilled in this grounded and centered and all of this shit is still happening.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:52.524)
Yeah.
Angela Johnson (36:52.705)
But I think that might be the point of like all of like, and that's to me, like building more equitable world is like if I.
I'm constantly in response mode and reaction mode, or not response mode, but reaction mode to everything happening around me. I cannot help anyone. I'm now at the, like all of that is controlling me. And it does to a point, like it does, because we're all part of this system that is really fucked up. And so, so I don't know that there's necessarily a misalignment, but it's like a of...
Like this is a practice. Like it's not like there's no destination. There's no I've arrived. Like that does not exist. It is. It reminds me of, and I've noticed this pattern my whole life of like, now, like I'm feeling good. And then I get arrogant. I don't need to do that. I don't need.
Becky Mollenkamp (37:50.82)
Mmm. Mmm.
Angela Johnson (37:54.57)
I can go back on social media. I don't need to do this. I don't need to take a few moments of mindfulness every morning. I get arrogant. like, no, don't need to take care of myself. I don't need to move my body. I don't need to get enough sleep. And then I'm back in that pattern of anxiety, depression. It's something I've lived with my whole life, but it's like, today it feels really, really hard. What happened? wait, I haven't been doing the things.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:16.842)
Mm-hmm. Is it maybe?
Arrogance or is it you're not listening to that true the true voice anymore, right? You let the other voices take over
Angela Johnson (38:29.121)
Yeah, and I think I just, you know, maybe it's just kind of that lack of dopamine. I just get bored and I'm like, oh, I forgot what made, what helped me feel this way. I can just not do those things. And then it's like, okay, it reminds me of that problem. think it's a phrase of like before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water after enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. It's like, do the things that I know help me things like meal planning, things like
Becky Mollenkamp (38:43.244)
Who is?
Angela Johnson (38:59.649)
Sorry, I'm getting over a cold, so my voice keeps going out. But things like meal planning, mindfulness, making sure I'm drinking water, going to bed. Like, no, do not stay up, Angela. Do not do it. Like, you are going to regret this.
Becky Mollenkamp (39:18.38)
Are you feeling worried that this, is that part of what's happening right now is just there's that little voice that's saying, this all feels good right now. And what if I go backwards?
Angela Johnson (39:24.541)
For sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, and I don't even know that it's like going backwards because I think anyone who struggled with mental health, like that is, as I've talked to people, that's a concern of like, how long is this going to last? And I can do all the things. And there are some times that my body and brain just does what, like does something else.
And it's like, well, shit, this is hard. And I also know that there are these foundational elements that are very, like much more simple. It's not this big grandiose thing. It's small, tiny actions daily and those daily actions. And that's also sometimes hard because that being consistent is not one of my strengths. If I'm not feeling it, it's like, I don't want to do that.
My brain cannot make me do that. And now that I have language for, okay, my brain is looking for dopamine.
just gonna do it and I'm gonna just like swear my way through it knowing that at the end of the day it will actually support my mental health. So yeah I would say that there's definitely a... and that's been my whole life of like when is the other shoe gonna drop or when will I just have this unexplainable dread or mood shift that you know when will that happen?
Faith Clarke (40:56.694)
I have two thoughts as I know that we're wrapping up. And I wonder where in your business, and this is not, we don't have to open this up, but where in the business do you have the space to chase the dopamine, to pursue the bliss? That if this is,
Angela Johnson (41:10.827)
Mm-hmm.
Angela Johnson (41:18.72)
Hmm
Faith Clarke (41:24.568)
who you are, then there's an element of saying yes to yourself solidly that doesn't say no to the rhythm and ritual and routine that's needed to keep life going. And I hear the pragmatism in all of what you're saying and also hear the risk of boredom for the true self that is saying, you know, I want to do something different.
Angela Johnson (41:52.341)
Yeah.
Faith Clarke (41:52.558)
So like I, yes, mindfulness. And can I have a random deck of 35 mindful activities? And today I don't know which one I'm going to pick, but I'm going to pick one and I'm going to go with it. Or I have half an hour for my mindfulness that I allow myself to be mindful in the most random ways that I choose or whatever it is. And how is that chasing dopamine?
a part of your business so that the business is nourishing that. So that was one set of things. And I'll just put that to the side. wait, go ahead.
Angela Johnson (42:24.994)
I love that.
Angela Johnson (42:30.018)
I have to have variety and I know that. I know I have to have variety and so, and I didn't know I was doing this years ago, but I love creating like one-off classes or like this three like monthly parts work. It's three months, small container. And that's the like the chasing dopamine or that's the creativity of just like, I probably won't do this every single month, but this is what feels really fun right now. I love talking about it.
Let me put it out there. got met with some enthusiasm and it was like that was the green light to like keep going. But I will often have a one-off class. So I know that I need variety because if it's, people are like have one signature offer and just offer that the rest of your life. I envy people who can do that because that would be so much easier. I have tried it many times. It does not work for me because of that boredom. It's like I...
Faith Clarke (43:17.717)
huh.
Angela Johnson (43:25.11)
was passionate about this three months ago and I cannot make myself do it. So I have the consistent one-on-one clients. I do a lot of work with people's signature systems. That's really what I've focused my energy on the last probably 18 months. And then I add variety and that helps. And the other piece too is I love teaching. So one-on-one work is wonderful and I love the teaching component.
So the other piece to that is making the decision of when I had the opportunity to teach at the university, was like, okay, this is a big shift. Do I have the capacity to be able to compartmentalize a really big responsibility here and a big responsibility in my business? And I love it. Like it gives me that variety. And I also love when I know that's like I have two days a week.
to work with clients, to do my marketing, all the things, I'm much better at disciplining myself. And so some people are like, need, like if I add more to my plate when it's conscious of like, I'm passionate about these projects and these ideas, then I have the variety, so I have better follow through. I'm curious what your, I don't know if that answered your question, but I'm curious what your other question was.
Faith Clarke (44:45.07)
Well, it's a question for kind of, you know, it'll kind of, I believe the gift of a good question is, you know, so it lives on. But also I'm hearing variety and constraint as two elements that you use to implement and infuse these principles. The other thought that I had is, cause I heard it kind of rang. What happens in my head is some words jump out. And so when you mentioned revenue and then the...
Angela Johnson (45:02.166)
Mm-hmm.
Faith Clarke (45:14.862)
the dip, I hear the practical pragmatic side of you saying, yes, we have to measure these things. Absolutely. I agree with you. I also wonder about what else you can measure that makes the story not just about revenue. I've recently gone to the gym, started going to the gym because I want to be able to carry groceries when I'm 80. I spent a year before going to the gym.
Angela Johnson (45:15.906)
Mm-hmm.
Faith Clarke (45:42.83)
walking and built up my capacity where walking is concerned. And so I was walking a mile, a mile and a half every day. Not I'm going to the gym, I'm not walking as much. And although I am using whatever the weights are that I'm using, what I've noticed is that I'm not as flexible as I was when I was only walking. Although I am strong in some ways, right? And recognizing that what I want is not just I can leg press 80, 90 or whatever pounds.
Angela Johnson (45:48.364)
Mm-hmm.
Faith Clarke (46:12.322)
but I want strength with my movements. And so there's a way that it's not just the leg press machine. It is this combination, complex combination of movements in every area that builds my full self. It's expensive to get at the gym, so I'm trying to still figure it out. I'm wondering, and to me, measuring that is not just in...
Angela Johnson (46:33.676)
Thank
Faith Clarke (46:39.096)
How many miles am I walking? How many steps am I taking? How many pounds am I pressing? There's something else. And the moment I start to tune into what are those some things else, they fill the picture out in a way that doesn't give the weight as I'm pressing as much weight. I feel like revenue has more weight for all of us than it needs to have. We all know we should be practical, but there is a...
Angela Johnson (46:58.914)
Mm-hmm.
Angela Johnson (47:05.154)
Yeah, I agree.
Faith Clarke (47:07.63)
How am I measuring curiosity each month for you? How for me, how am I measuring my depth of connection each month? How am I measuring my access to intuition each month? Sometimes how many people cried when we shared each month? And what are the measures in liberation focused anti-capitalist, anti-supremacist business?
Angela Johnson (47:23.714)
Mm-hmm.
Angela Johnson (47:35.68)
Mm-hmm.
Faith Clarke (47:36.034)
And how do I each month look at that and just say, wow, look at that. so that, okay, yeah, revenue, the rent does need to be paid and or mortgage or whatever. And so, and I was also more flexible and more intuitive and more compassionate this month than I was last month.
Angela Johnson (47:45.835)
I know.
Angela Johnson (47:58.179)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that. And I think this has been a journey that I've really, mean, since the last five years, had some, before everything happened in 2020, there were just some personal experiences that really put me into a deep chapter of healing. And so last five years have been focused on that. And so how, like other things that I measure, and you mentioned some of them,
connections. I recognized it was a few years ago. I have a lot of virtual friends being an entrepreneur in online business, but I was craving in-person connection. And but they had to be the right connection, like where I could have deep conversations. And so I have some in real life friends that we started a book group of all things. And that has been a lifeline. So that has been part of it. I mentioned my sister and her kids.
being very intentional about how I'm with them. And one of the things that I've done with friendships with, I call them the littles of whenever we leave an activity, we have something on the books for the next time.
Because otherwise it goes months without seeing people that I say I care about. They say they care about me, but life gets in the way. And so let's make an appointment. Let's talk about it now. So that's been a really helpful practice. Taking care of my body, know. Disordered eating, being in recovery from that has been, I don't know that that will ever go away. Like it's always a...
something that's present of my relationship with food, my body movement. And so how can I prioritize my wellbeing on a physical level? That's also part of that measurement. And I think the other thing too is, know, did I enjoy my weekend or was I working all weekend?
Angela Johnson (50:01.844)
And so, and there are times that when I'm feeling it and I, you know, I don't sometimes work, but for the most part it's like, no, I'm not on my computer. I'm not on my phone. I'm putting around the house and doing simple things. And those are relatively new. And I would say relatively new within the last year, cause I would be so consumed. There was always something to do. And so just recognizing like, there is always something to do. And.
Becky Mollenkamp (50:25.474)
Thank
Angela Johnson (50:28.692)
It's not going to make or break my life or my business.
Becky Mollenkamp (50:31.85)
Right? We have to wrap up, which is tough because there's more we could talk about. I wanted to just say to somebody with some neurodivergence and who also like my brain feels your brain. It feels somewhat. I would say one way to help maybe incorporate some of that dopamine hit, or at least that has helped me. So I just offer it to you is how can you gamify some of those metrics that faith is like you guys are exploring? Like what are some other things you can measure and then how can you gamify or make it interesting? Like I.
Angela Johnson (50:45.01)
Hahaha!
Angela Johnson (50:51.451)
huh.
Becky Mollenkamp (51:01.536)
I have a daily planner that I use with my pretty markers and like just trying to be able to record those things. have a place, it gives me that little dopamine hit when I get to color in the thing or know, draw whatever that I have in my daily things. So thinking about that could also be helpful as you think about these expanding, what are the metrics I'm exploring? And then how do I maybe allow that to be where that dopamine is coming from so that you can continue on that path that you know feels good.
Angela Johnson (51:05.826)
Thank
Angela Johnson (51:12.773)
Yes.
Angela Johnson (51:18.039)
I love you.
Angela Johnson (51:27.264)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (51:28.706)
Um, we have to wrap up cause Faith and I both have calls to get to, which is just, you know, again, this is how it goes, right? So I appreciate you joining us. And I hope that as you reflect on some of these things and maybe, you know, how you get to get in touch, stay more consistently in touch with that true voice, that that helps with 2026, like feeling like this invitation to continue and to give yourself the,
Angela Johnson (51:31.658)
Yeah, Yep, this is life.
Becky Mollenkamp (51:54.988)
the permission to drop that worry. Not that we ever can completely, but the permission to say like, it can be good. Instead of can it be good, it can be good. And so thank you for joining us to talk about these things. I really appreciate your time.
Angela Johnson (52:02.114)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Angela Johnson (52:09.047)
Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much.
Faith Clarke (52:11.726)
It's lovely to chat with.