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Forrest Lutz, Business Development Manager @ Wonderist Agency Joins the Podcast and #dentalsharkweek. He gives some really great advice to new business owners on things to look out for when taking over another practice. We hit on analyzing the existing efforts, maintaining Google authority, creating automated touchpoints, and tracking your marketing efforts. This episode is jam-packed and well worth your time!
Reach out to Wonderist Agency:
https://www.wonderistagency.com/contact
Or contact Forrest directly 619-291-7073Â |Â 619-857-7658 forrest.lutz@wonderistagency.com
Tell him you saw the show!
0:00 Intro Music
0:41 Episode Introduction
2:25 Introducing Wonderist Agency
9:39 Biggest Challenges Marketing a Transition
14:08 Strategically Analyzing Existing Practice
17:06 Tracking and Converting New Patients
23:12 Automation and Following Up
27:01 Making Changes to Existing Marketing
37:07 Search Engine Optimization & Google
SHOW HOST:Z
As a dental buyer representative, Michael Dinsio helps dentists buy dental practices step-by-step. With over a decade of experience and more than 500 dental transactions, Michael is a key opinion leader in the dental industry. This program helps walk dentists through the process of becoming a dental practice owner via dental practice acquisitions. If you would like a free consult with Michael or would like to work with Michael in the future visit his webpage. https://www.nxlevelconsultants.com/buyer-representation.html
DENTAL UNSCRIPTED HAS A WEBSITE ! ! !
Find all the content from SEASON 1: "Start Up Unscripted"... as well as SEASON 2: "Dental Acquisition Unscripted", it's all here in one spot here 👉 https://www.dentalunscripted.com
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#dentalsharkweek #marketingadentalpractice #buyingadentalpractice #marketing #dentalpodcast
Intro Music by D Fine Us on https://artlist.io/song/15785/howling-at-the-moon
This podcast covers from START to FINISH How to Acquire a Dental Practice. Michael Dinsio, founder of Next Level Consultants has literally seen hundreds of deals as a banker in the industry & he has personally consulted hundreds of dentists as a Buyers Representative. Michael talks with GUEST SPEAKERS about Due Diligence, Legal, Demographics, and more... He invites experts to the show to help you avoid those headaches and heartbreaks. So start at the TOP w/ Episode 01 and work your way through the transition process. We break it down step by step in a true #UNSCRIPTED and genuine way.
00:00
Oh yeah, here we go practice acquisition. There are pitfalls throughout the entire process.
00:25
Acquisition Unscripted, the truth when buying and selling at dental practice.
00:36
And now your host, Michael Dinsio. All right, all right, guys. Another episode of Shark Week Dental Acquisition Unscripted. We are rolling with this. It's Shark Week Chomp Chomp this episode. I'm going to introduce you here in a minute, but we got into some really cool stuff. We got into like, what's your message and conversion rate, which is.
01:03
Kind of unique, a lot of the other marketing companies are talking about like the mechanical stuff. Today we got into some vision and messaging and conversion, which is so important. Like as a consultant, consulting firm or consultant, I talk a lot about conversions. It's not just the calls you get. It's also how you convert them and what production you got from the money spent. So.
01:32
Sure, you might not have thousands of calls coming in, but the quality of patient and the production from those patients matters, matters, matters. So we also talked about the transition itself and how to like maintain Google authority so that you don't drop off the face of the earth when, when you do get your new site up and running and how to like link everything back so that the old site and the new site are all talking, walking and talking. And there's
02:01
That's been a general theme for the show. And so just more of it. I think marketing is such an important thing, which is why we decided to do Shark Week marketing topic. so stay tuned throughout the whole week. Make sure to catch every episode. But again, without further ado, let's roll into our next episode of Shark Week. All right, right, guys, another episode of Shark Week.
02:28
dental acquisition unscripted. name is Mike Dinsio, as you all know, and I got a cool guest on on today. It's Forrest with Wondrous. He's representing a fantastic company today. And just just like we are continuing this, this is a week of phenomenal marketing companies. And I've said it a few times throughout the series is that like there are literally hundreds of dental air quotes.
02:58
dental marketing companies out there. If someone's on my Shark Week, they know what they're doing and these guys do. And so let's just get into it. Forrest with Wanderest, again, buddy, thanks for being on the show. Tell us a little bit about you and the company that you represent. let's just get into this stuff. Let's dive right in, right? In the name of Shark Week, let's...
03:25
our toes in the water here, right? oh. oh. I got to come in with the corny analogies at some point. That's mental analogies especially. But yeah, mean, to tell you a little bit about me, I've been with Wunderst for just under five years. So, I really came in as Michael and Laura, who are the two co-founders, went into more of that CEO level position, right? You unfortunately can't talk to every single person. And so, they brought me in here to really represent Wunderst.
03:54
make sure that somebody like myself had the same values as them. But so if anybody does end up talking with us, right, I'm the one that you'll end up talking to. I'm the one that you'll really be game planning with. quickly about Wondrous, right? We're full service dental specific marketing agency. So hopefully we don't get the air quotes on that dental because that is all we do. We work with dentists, whether it's established, whether it's acquisition, whether it is a startup. And so...
04:20
really you realize it's not a one size fits all. And so that's why we are full service is to offer solutions from branding, building websites, building photo and video and really strong campaigns to doing SEO, Google ads, social media, all the way through that lead management and really helping practices create a system to follow up with leads that they're getting as they grow. And so we don't have to do everything with us. We do everything a la carte, but I will say making sure that we talk about that overarching marketing system.
04:49
as we're thinking about how do we grow this acquisition and really get it to the place we're excited about. So I love that you said that for us because some of my guests this week aren't full service. I don't know if that's been communicated on all the episodes. What do you mean by full service? I'll have you explain it versus me, but I want folks to know some of the folks, some of the great companies that we've had on aren't full service. So you guys are. What's that mean?
05:15
Yeah, and so there definitely services we don't provide, right? If you think of something like a direct mail or more of those traditional marketing, I'd say we stay largely in that digital world of full service, although we have really great partners that embrace our philosophy that we can always recommend. When I say full service, I mean from the beginning of the message that you're really conveying, right? What are we saying? What is that message we're putting out into the world all the way through the second step, which is
05:42
are we getting this in front of somebody? What are the channels that we're using to take that strong message and now actually get it in front of people? And then the final part, and I think this is where so many times practices in general kind of fall short or don't even think about this step, which is, what do I do with my leads? What do I do with people who have ultimately raised their hand and said, I'm interested in your practice? We have practice management softwares, right? All these practices use that. That's great for your patients. They're great patient communication tools.
06:12
What about the people that aren't yet your patient, but have showed it interest? And so that full service really ties back in with capturing those leads and creating a really systematic way of following up so we can make sure those appointments get booked and make sure you get treatment accepted at the end of the day, get the right patient. So long-winded way of saying full service from the beginning of what are we saying all the way to the end of is that person actually scheduling an appointment coming in and hopefully, you know, staying with your practice forever.
06:42
Okay, so that's, to me, that's next level for full service because that element in the backend about converting and generating opportunities with people that are interested, I wouldn't throw that into full service. I would throw that on maybe this like blue ocean kind of category that other marketing companies aren't doing. for my audience, full service is exactly what Forrest said.
07:10
branding image messaging all the way through how you're going to implement it. But then these guys, which we're going to touch on, these guys do a little bit something extra on the back end. So I'm definitely hitting that. To me, full service is all of that. But there are some companies that don't touch branding, don't touch other marketing things and just do websites. So there are some of those folks on our program. Before we get too crazy for us, folks,
07:38
If you're not following us on YouTube, you need to, because I'm about to do something just completely silly. And this is unique to the Shark Week because Miss Joanna, who is my contact for Wondrous, sends a little box to me in lieu of Shark Week last year. And I didn't, wasn't, she said, hey, Mike, good luck with Shark Week. We're all paying attention. We're all listening. And I was like, what the hell is in this box?
08:07
So I open it up and this is what she sends me.
08:14
Yeah, it's happening, folks. If I can still get into it. She sends me this shark outfit. OK, I can't even get it over my headphones. This is a shark. putting on a shark outfit, folks. So I had to wear it. I promised Joanne I would at the AAPD meeting. I am wearing a shark outfit on YouTube talking to Forrest at Wonders. And you guys, this is a sign of creativity in my mind because
08:44
I love it. You have to think about ways to approach the marketplace to get people's attention. It's one of my favorite things about Wondrous is their creativity and how they approach the clients. So, Forrest, can tell Jojo, or Jojo Giggs, as I call her, tell her I wore her outfit. I don't think I can fit in it next year. We'll see. It is a little snug. So anyways, representing Jojo and Wondrous on Shark Week this week.
09:13
Hey, I don't think snug is the right word. think it's right. It's aerodynamic. And so you can just cut through the water just seamlessly. Right. It was intentional. A hundred percent, especially about this tummy right here. Oh my gosh. Hey, you and me both. and me both. Right. It's not going away with time. I love it. All right. So without further ado, let's get into my questions. So as we're thinking about acquisition and marketing, one of the first questions I ask is
09:40
What is some of the biggest pitfalls that you see buyers run into when taking over practice? Now, there's so many different directions we could go here. All of it's on the table for us, wherever you want to take it. But in your mind, what are some things that our listeners need to think about when buying someone's practice and then the transition of that ownership and process?
10:08
Yeah, great, great question. And I'm going to answer it twofold. But the first one I would say is, as we know, there's so many opinions when it comes to marketing. It's probably one of the most opinionated elements, right? You think about bank loans, you think about closing on a practice. There's not necessarily a right or a wrong way to do marketing, but those have a pretty set process. And so when it comes to marketing, you'll get a lot of opinions from a lot of different places. We think about the Facebook groups, right? We think about podcasts like this.
10:38
you'll probably hear some things that I may think personally or somebody else may think personally, that doesn't always mean that's the silver bullet. And so looking for that silver bullet is almost an impossible task. And I think the biggest pitfall people run into is thinking that they can just replicate exactly what somebody else has done and build a perfect practice from there. That being said, having structures in place, answering the questions that you need to answer,
11:06
and thinking about that before jumping into a full plan, that's where I think most people kind of stray away from, To bring it back to marketing, I think a question that I ask every person I talk to and that every person should ask themselves, regardless if you're talking about marketing is what makes you different? How do you want to be seen in your market? Are you actually offering something that is different from other practices in your area? And I think to answer this in that second part,
11:36
The second thing that people do wrong when it comes to these pitfalls is jumping past the message, jumping past what they're actually bringing to the table and just going straight to the marketing channels. Does SEO work? Does Google Ads work? Does social media work? I've heard all of these different opinions back to that first point. But really what we need to ask is what are we saying? Why would anybody care if they found me at the end of the day? And so I think that
12:05
That is largely what we like to focus on when talking to acquisitions is- Of course. How do you get an old website from an old seller to convey your message and that whole process? It's not just a transition of patience and team, which is really hard, by the way. It's what Next Level helps our clients with, but it's also that message, that vision that you're talking about.
12:36
how do we transition that? Is there strategies, is there tidbits that you have or are thinking about with someone's kind of old site that's definitely not your message to this and how quick do you make that message? And how do you guys actually do that mechanically? Yeah, it's a great question. I think, hopefully, I don't say this too much, but there always is a factor of it depends, right? And I think there is a comfortability of
13:06
the type of practice you're acquiring because when you're acquiring a practice, they do come in all different shapes and sizes. And you know that probably better than anybody. But we do have to take a step back and say, what are we comfortable with as a transition? And there's so many acquisitions that we've worked with where their goal is to immediately get everything up, right? It's cold turkey, the seller moves on. At day one, it is just that new buying doc and
13:34
they don't really necessarily need to transfer that goodwill as much as a practice where that seller might be staying on for six months a year, that transition process may look a little different. So typically what I say is a six month transition period feels realistic, right? You're gonna get the recall, you're going to be able to meet every single patient and you may not need to establish that message in the first six months as strongly as you would because there is that time of goodwill.
14:02
I couldn't agree more because you're on stage. A lot of my clients are like physically and emotionally exhausted. Because you know, look, like generalizing here, folks, don't kill me. Generalizing dentists are extremely detailed. They should be. They're analytical. They're meticulous in a lot of ways.
14:28
And frankly, the majority isn't like super strong at communication skills. They're definitely a rare form, no doubt. And good for you if you're one of those, but most people are not. And so they're on stage, they're trying to win those patients over. They're trying to win their team over in that transition. Marketing is like the last thing that they're thinking about, but they're exhausted. And to take on the idea of flipping a new brand, a new name,
14:58
Um, all those things is it's just, it's taxing to be a new owner as an acquisition for sure. Whereas a startup, Oh, they're super excited about it. They're, they've been dreaming about this for years. They've got names that it totally different. so back to that point for us is like, do you advise folks, uh, on, Oh yeah, that website's not great. Do you guys advise them on what their current situation, what they acquired? Like, do you advise them on that?
15:27
Yeah, 100%. And I think any good marketing agency will, right? They'll take something and they'll diagnose it. They'll say, is this website great? Is it something that we can actually work with? Because there are times where you might be acquiring a practice where the name isn't specific to the doc. And you say, you know what? The brand's good. It's a strong brand. It's run in the community. We can go with it, right? We don't have to totally reinvent the wheel here. Then it becomes a preference thing, right? Do I want to?
15:57
You don't have to. There are a lot of situations where you can take that and run. other side is you're acquiring an older practice, probably named after the doc, right? You're like, I can't operate under this brand because it's not me. Right. And so that's where I will say, we absolutely look at everything holistically and you should, and any good marketing agency will look at that and say, Hey, your website's strong. You do have a good message and ask the right questions. Is this saying what we want it to say? What are we changing?
16:26
in the practice over the next six months, year, does this fit into that plan? But I think to at the core of it, starting with that question and saying, what do we have that's already doing well? Where can we build off what we have? And most instances, some people have to go back to the drawing board and it's almost like that pseudo startup. But I would say a lot of acquisitions, they've built good reputations in the community. They have something going for them. And if you can parlay that into,
16:55
continuing to have a successful practice, 100%, you should take that and run. That's right. That's right. You guys are big, like big on conversion and I am too. It's a philosophy for me. For me, oh my gosh, this thing's snug. For me, it's not how many calls we got. mean, of course that's important, but it's...
17:22
it's thinking of marketing in a real way and how it impacts my business. And you're talking about a lot of the foundational things with vision and image and what you're trying to convey. think that's really important for new owners. Once you get past that, then it becomes more about strategy and the sales funnel and conversion rates. let's talk about that because I think
17:46
We mentioned that on the beginning of the show is like your guys's X factor and I want to spend the appropriate amount of time on it. So it's not just the calls, the number of calls, but it's also what's the production per call that you got in your office and how much did that cost you? That's the way I look at marketing because too many times marketing companies get the bad rep rap, bad rap.
18:16
I think either one. either, either, right? It's its name thing, tomato. Like, they get a bad rap because they, oh, I'm not growing my practice. Well, your front office person doesn't know how to pick up the phone or maybe doctor, you don't know how to sell. And that's not a dirty word on my show is converting people and shh, know, and we're not talking about converting people.
18:38
on dentistry that they don't need. We're talking about converting people that need dentistry and you're helping that person say yes. So that's what we're talking about on my show. But for us, what makes you guys unique in that respect as the sales funnel call to scheduling, to converting treatment, to collecting treatment? Yeah. Yeah. And you're so spot on, right? A lot of practices, they will live and die kind of by that front desk, right? If you
19:07
you can have the most qualified patient. If you don't answer the phone, they're not saying yes. And so you really do realize, and to go back to that full service, it isn't until they book an appointment, it isn't until they accept treatment that we really can consider it a success. And so what we're saying is the core foundation of getting more people to pick up the phone and call, because the more you segment yourself and differentiate yourself in the market, the better your conversion will be, the better those channels will perform. Now to the second point,
19:37
which is how do we now make sure that the people who do call are making the most? I love that you don't shy away from selling, right? I think selling is a dirty word if we think about it, like from a used car salesman, but no dentist is really doing that. Maybe some, we probably, neither of us work with them. Yeah, that's not who, yeah, it's not my patient client. Yeah, exactly. But that being said, we have some clients where you want to get that insight and we have people that,
20:06
we'll look at their system. We'll say, you got 20 people that reached out and said, I'm interested. And we didn't call a single one of them. So you're in the marketing dollars. Like I wouldn't be doing my job well, if I would say to ramp up that marketing spend, because we don't have that backend system in place first. That front desk needs to have responsibility. And so where I think we really come into this is in that follow-up system, we can diagnose, we can say, Hey, we noticed that when we listened to these recorded calls,
20:35
we are struggling to book an appointment or we just flat out aren't answering the phone. And that's where a lot of times creating some sense of automation can really help with this saying, if somebody fills out a request on the appointment, send them a text, send them a follow-up email. We can automate that process because so many people that aren't comfortable with selling, and I'm a sales guy myself, what you realize is you don't have to say the best thing in the world. If you follow up, if you follow up quickly and you follow up
21:05
often. That's usually who somebody's going to pick. so creating that process of staying in front of people and making sure that you're just there when they are ready to pick up the phone call and then make a decision at the end of the day, being the last one in their inbox, being the last one at the top of their text thread. That's what a lot of people just say, I appreciate the follow-up. This is the practice I'm going to go with. You know, it's interesting, man, that I've been in business for a while, not always.
21:33
consulting, not always banking. Started with working with a marketing company, but in that marketing company, I didn't sell to a niche like Dental. I had the opportunity to work with really big companies and stuff. One of those companies was The Limited Brands. Everybody knows. And they were one of the godfathers of marketing, if you didn't know that. They knew so much about their clients.
22:02
that it was kind of creepy. Like if you went to Victoria's Secret and bought something, they know who you were. They knew that the 30 % coupon didn't work on you, but the 40 % did. Like crazy weird stuff. Like they, you know, the buy two, get three works from here, but not this person. like crazy. And this was 25, 30 years ago. So they just kind of like grandfathered.
22:32
The point that I'm making is in every single business is similar in the way that systems and follow-up matter. And in dentistry, I learned quickly that like it's little tiny things, fluoride, reappointment rates, collecting at the time of service, tiny, tiny, tiny things, doing it with compliance and frequency add up to
23:02
monstrous things. And so what I love about your guys is automation is that you can pick up some of the slip, the slippage, because team members are human beings. Talk about some of that automation a little bit, if you don't mind. Yeah. and I think you, you hit the nail on the head when it came to supporting the team members. think, especially in acquisitions, a lot of times you do see
23:25
a little resistance to change from the team. Oh, my sweet Jesus. a little, think, is probably underselling it here. do I look ridiculous? Yes. Yeah. That bad. Like, that's how ridiculous it is. Yes. OK. Exactly. And so I think the first thing is just making sure we understand that this is there to support teams. Right. The reason things get done is or don't get done. The reason people aren't following up with really qualified potential patients
23:54
is probably just because they've never done it before and they haven't had that conversation. So a lot of what we do is we do a lot of training, right? We want to come in and say, Hey, this is a tool to literally just put somewhere in one, something in one place, place to manage your leads with, which probably nobody's ever done at this practice before. And so I think the first thing is just getting your team on board and saying, this is to make your jobs easier. This is to help you. So you don't have to go check 20 sticky notes that are laying all over your desk.
24:22
Let's consolidate it. Let's have it in one place. And so we have this lead management tool. We call it our CRM, our wonderful CRM, our corny brand, right? Where you have to put wonder in front of everything we say. But it really consolidates one place and it says, here's everybody that's ever reached out, whether it's a phone call, whether it's somebody filling out a form, whether it's somebody doing a chat on your website, right? We now have that information in one place.
24:50
which largely is an important part of that process. Because if you don't have it in one place and it's hard to use, it's much harder to adopt, right? Yeah, that scatter, having things. And we know, you should have seen what we did five years ago. We had a board filled with sticky notes. That's where we started and now here we are, right? We use this ourselves to really consolidate everything into one place. But you start there. And then to your point on the automation, it's saying,
25:20
A, is somebody going to own this? Because there are practices that don't necessarily want everything to be sent out in an automated way. And you can delegate something to a team member. You can get their buy-in. You can say, part of your job is to follow up. And guess what? If not one person wants to own that, that's where that automation really comes in. So that automation really is a sequence that we can build out depending on where somebody came from. If they say, I'm interested in an appointment, we'll follow up that first
25:49
that first message will be a text confirming that we received what they filled out. That we might send an email. And if they respond, great, that will now go to your team that you have the confidence in building out. If they don't respond, just a quick reminder, three days later, another text, another email, and we can build this cadence out based on whatever you want in your practice. And maybe it starts out in the beginning of just getting new patients in, maybe-
26:16
after year one, you feel comfortable, you've bought that goodwill to that patients. Now it's all about implants. We're probably gonna have a little bit of a different follow-up sequence because that's a totally different conversation. yeah, it's a really cool system that's tailored towards the types of practices that they really want. The CRM that you guys have is a game changer. And I think it is a piece that we had to give a little love to on the program.
26:45
which is why I brought it up in the middle of this segment because I just wanted to make sure we gave it the love and respect it deserves. Let's go back to foundational marketing stuff. The stuff that everybody's talking about this week. Back to challenges with a buyer and a transition. Like I find that like buying a practice and getting things converted
27:13
is a challenge. Like if we're totally rebranding and refreshing, there's a lot of like, how do we get the old domain to match, you know, like to line up? Do we have the passwords for the Google My Business? Oh, the other guy didn't even have social media. How do we do that? Like talk us through like what Wondrous does for the transition.
27:42
Once you figured out message and look and feel and message, uh, uh, now, what does Wondrous do to help these docs transition? Like mechanically, that make sense? Yeah, a hundred percent. So this is where I will defer, right? Not, not in a bad way, but I will say there are a lot of people behind us at Wondrous that are much smarter than I am. And I hate the, you know, the, play the non-answer answer, but
28:09
Just to tell you quickly about our team, and then I'll answer your question more directly, we have a team of about 70 people all here in the office. I'm in one of the small rooms that I get locked away because I talk too loud, but ultimately there's 70 people here and we have two salespeople, myself and one other. 68 of the other people are on fulfillment, right? SEO specialists, Google ads specialists, project managers, client success managers, people who really are there for our clients and the ones that really help with that.
28:39
I can't take their thunder and say that I'm the one doing this. But what I can say is that's where having a specialist that's done this before and ultimately can look at everything that you have and make that transition is a really important part of any marketing process. And so that's where having these individual groups really comes through and shines. That being said, I'll tell you what I know. so what that is is it's really understanding what are we changing? If you're changing your name, if you're changing the domain,
29:08
If we think about how to capitalize on that, I like to say this all the time. SEO is usually what it's going to impact the most during a time of transition, right? And it's because SEO is kind of like a credit score. You have all of these different variables that go into it. And it's really just a long game of building up your credibility over time. That's a good way of saying that you're right. Cause credit score takes a minute. I've never heard it that way.
29:36
But that's well said. It does build on itself. Yeah. And guess what it doesn't like? A lot of change, which is exactly what we're doing during an acquisition. And so just like the team members, just like they don't like it either. Yeah, exactly. A hundred percent change is never a good thing. Right. It's always scary. And Google is just like one of those team members that doesn't like change because it means that there's something that's not consistent and consistency is what
30:04
Google, especially when looking at SEO, really grasps onto the most. So if we think of this, there are ways that we can mitigate some of that concern with change. However, first thing I'd love to do is just set expectations and say, there probably will be a little bit of a decline, right? You probably can expect a little bit of that, just like to keep running with this horrible analogy, if you apply for a new credit card.
30:29
you might have a great credit score, you'll naturally see it drop down before it comes back up. And hopefully it's better than it ever was before. Yeah. And that's sort of what that is like with SEO is Google listing. If we can keep certain things, if we can keep that listing and just update the name, for example, we're going to absolutely try that because having to scrap it and start from scratch, that's Google coming in and saying, hey, this is this guy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So
30:56
I'd say one of the biggest things that I'd recommend is when you look at your website, although that is where our message stays, don't be super quick to just yank it down. Because what you want to do is keep that. And as you're building a new website, if that is what you end up doing, making sure that you're transferring everything. And this might get a little technical, but right. each individual page. If you have like a cosmetic dentistry page and making sure that old service page links right back to the new one that you've built.
31:26
because now you're basically connecting those dots. Are you talking about a redirect or? exactly. So redirecting, and a lot of times people might only redirect the homepage. that's what I see. That's exactly what I see, yeah. You wanna go through the entire website and look at every individual page we have and make sure that we're bridging that gap from the old website to the new. So if you take one piece of recommendation from here. That's a great one. Don't just yank your website down.
31:53
make sure there was a plan for transition to connect what you had to what you want. I love that for us because that translates directly with the purchase and sale agreement. I know this isn't your world. This is definitely my world. You know, I find that attorneys have gotten so boilerplate, not in a bad way. That sounds bad. We interviewed Robert Montgomery and Alia Ramshin and some other folks.
32:23
They've gotten boilerplate in the way that those attorneys are going to represent you really well. And it's really important to have folks like them on the team. But then they have these like these, these, uh, in your APA, have descriptions and have their, you know, their paragraphs and stuff. And you'll notice that like in those paragraphs or specific wording, because they've, they've talked to for people like forest.
32:50
and they've added stuff over the years and now it's just this really awesome contract. But then nobody really explains why 10 years ago they've added that little sentence. That's exactly why. So in your APA, you actually have the right to run with that website for a period of time. That's why that time period matters. We talked about this in other episodes, I think. And so what Forrest is saying is keep it rolling.
33:19
Keep it rolling and tie it back as long as you can legally so that there isn't this credit score depletion. And I think that's a well, well said and hopefully well received. Change does hurt Google for sure. I will say one element to add on that is it doesn't mean you can't incorporate new things that you're excited about in.
33:47
start answering the phone with the new practice name, right? Get business cards with the new logo. It can be a subtle transfer over time. It's not like you have to do this one brand unveiling. know. Easing into it does help with that building of goodwill with that existing inactive patient base that you're ultimately doing an acquisition to keep, There's one of my clients has a story. She
34:18
very eager to buy this practice and change everything to her way. And I challenged her, I'm like, hey, look, like there's goodwill here that you bought and you wanna make sure that you get all the value in that goodwill. And the patients in a world where patients are anxious about coming into dental offices anyways, change is super scary. But she didn't listen to me and she changed the sign literally day one.
34:48
Literally day one. And we ended up coaching this client afterwards a little bit and patients came in freaked out. And they lost a lot of patients and just because of that damn sign switch out. And so that's a very aggressive story, but it's so true. Forrest is gonna be or could be responsible for that digital impression. Remember changing it.
35:16
even though you're super excited and it's your practice and you know, you're so excited about the vision that they helped you put together and create the messaging and the new brand. It's all exciting stuff. You deserve that. But don't forget the patients you you you bought are not used to any of that. Yeah, 100%. And I think it seems like we're kind of rolling with this similar theme of change today, right? I think that that is when you're looking at an acquisition, the biggest question mark there is.
35:46
when it comes to marketing and comes to just the acquisition in itself. so having a plan from that from day one doesn't mean you're doing it and implementing it on day one, but it's about making sure you understand how does that fit into this overarching system and how are we gonna roll it out in an effective way? I love that. It's a strategy. It's an overall strategy. It's not just, know, wondrous and forest.
36:13
They are one of the few that do help on the strategy. And it doesn't mean that they're going to sell you on a website day one, boom, and put you on all these programs. To me, it's what's the strategy for transitioning and for change. that's what matters in acquisition. Now startups, different conversation, but I love the message. I love the message. Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, you do get some acquisitions.
36:40
that are basically pseudo startups, right? No website, no web presence, hasn't ever had a Google My Business even. And so I'd say that's an acquisition that would operate a little more like a startup, which definitely happens. And usually that is a, let's get something up as quickly as we can, because there's nothing there. So. On that note, what do you see a lot in old dental office, old practices websites? Like.
37:07
Like you just said, any solid marketing company earlier in the episode has the opportunity or the ability to look at, know, mechanically what's going on and what's not working. What do you see is one of the biggest misses of the past generation in marketing? Yeah. That my clients have to get to to change. What do you see? I think
37:36
Number one is just a lack of content. think if we think about dentists in general, I know this is a generalization, there's a lot of listeners out there who are definitely doing this well. Yeah. Yeah. Let's use like before and afters, for an example. There are a lot of clients we work with that are so hesitant to get any content because it's not the perfect case, right? I could do a better job. And so I'm just not going to take a before and after. Totally.
38:04
I think same thing applies to your practice as you're changing it, as you're building this out. And if you look at that past generations of practices, a lot of what people are really purchasing, it's stock images. It's grandma and grandpa running through a field, right? It's the kids on a jungle gym, just zero connection to your practice. And it really used to be about checking the box. It really used to be about, I have a website, check. Did I do an Instagram post?
38:33
check, right? There was a lot of just get something up there. And now your competition has become much stiffer. Everybody has a website almost, right? Except for those few practices we were talking about earlier. Now it really is about going in and saying how do we actually formulate something that makes a difference? Because guess what? A website's not gonna set you apart anymore. That's true, man. It's true. The SEO is one thing, but like
39:01
the convert back to the conversion back to quality. I heard a statistic. Is this true? Most people scroll twice before they bounce. Is that right? A hundred percent. it's true. Searching is always changing, right? As, as Google's gotten rid of pages, for example, there's no more pages. can't go to page number two. You can't be on page number three. They've converted to endless scroll. And so now you're starting to see a searcher.
39:29
change the way that they're looking a little bit. How are they doing that? Well, what are they doing? Let's get into some psychiatry. I know we're now I'm pressing up and I'm asking you a loaded question and technically I'm out of time, but we got to hear more. So what's the psychology behind that? Yeah. I think it's really to a convinced from, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. It's really the segment, that difference between page one and page two. If you used to be on page two, nobody would ever click on your website.
39:58
because nobody's clicking the page two. So I think it is to give people a little bit more of that ability to show up. And I will say you're seeing a lot more people just do their due diligence by taking more time and do a little bit more searching, right? On the actual search results. So. Oh, you're being found a little bit easier. Yep. Which is good for some people, not good for others. If you're number one, that's not great for you.
40:27
Right. And I mean, it gives people more options, right? That's good. That gives more people. Now, what's this thing about Google Maps? I feel like Google Maps is taking over the world right now. Why are they forcing us on Google Maps? Yeah. And that's the second point I was going to say is if you're in the map pack, I know we're on the same page here, right? It's like shark telekinesis. That's right. But so if you're in that map pack, that's really the most coveted spot.
40:56
And that's also going to be the hardest place to get to. That is why it's so important to look at your listings. And as you're making this transition, claiming all of that to build those listings out as confident or as concisely as possible. Listings as in third party listings? Yeah, exactly. So it's a directory, It's your online presence. And there's something called your NAP, which stands for name, address, and phone number.
41:24
Let's think of it as your business's online social security number. You want that to be consistent. so that's like that. Yeah, exactly. We can start talking like marketing people with this conversation, dude. Don't sleep on the nap. Right. There's my that's that's my dad joke of the day. Oh, God, it's terrible. That's all right. I'm the dad wearing a shark suit. My my son would love it. He'd love it. But so it's embarrassing.
41:51
make sure that's claimed, right? And then, and then tell the dad joke that you heard on, on a podcast from some marketing guy that you forget his name, but at end of the day, making sure you're going through and claiming all of those business listings. That's one of the first thing that you should be updating for an acquisition or making sure that they're built out, right? Making sure that- How many, many, uh, some companies go a little extreme with that and say you need to be like all 100 and is it the more, the better?
42:18
A lot of marketing companies only focus on the top five, and I feel like that's not enough. Yeah, we focus on probably those top 20, 25, 30. You don't need every single one Google prioritizes, but that's something where an agency with a strong strategy will ultimately be monitoring that as Google changes what it's looking for. And this is where the marketing distrust comes from, because you have to trust that your agency will actually be doing what they're saying. That's right.
42:47
And that being said, to just wrap this up, to the point I was saying earlier, there are a lot of opinions. That's probably one of those things where your opinion can change. And I'm sure multiple people will get better results. We usually look at those top 20, 25, 30, and we've found really good success with that. I'm sure somebody would disagree with me out there and they'd probably have a reason for it as well.
43:12
There's a lot of podcasts out there for us. I think mine's the best, but I don't know. There's a lot of opinions. They're all just wrong. That's right. Hey, look, I always say, I always say this is my big disclaimer and it's for us is too, because he's on the program and that is nobody knows your situation, right? You go on the Facebook groups, even this podcast. Look, we try to stay. I try to get my folks, you for us, the interviewees,
43:42
to get into the nitty gritty. And it's hard for the interviewee because he doesn't know, they don't know your situation. You might be on like Dental Town or Facebook and you're asking people questions that are in New York City that can only afford 1300 square feet. And you might be in Kansas and you can build out an 828, 3000 square for the same price. So their advice to your advice is totally different. So you gotta be careful about what you take.
44:11
Uh, in, I think folks that ask great questions like forest does on the intake and just tries to learn about you, because I think everybody has an answer. It just depends on what, what makes sense for you and your business and your business plan and your vision and all the things. so anyways, that's my soapbox. We're we're 40 minutes in. I'm sorry. Uh, I usually end these things about 10 minutes ago before.
44:38
Brother, anything you wanna, don't feel the necessary, but anything you feel like you wanna give the audience, I'm gonna, the show notes, make sure you get in touch with Forrest. He's gonna put his information down below, but final words, last golden nugget or anything that you might wanna give. Yeah, I appreciate, now I'll go onto my soapbox, right? But no, I will say we talked a lot about differentiation. We talked a lot about that messaging.
45:07
At the end of the day, no matter what you talk about, nobody knows you because if you talk to me, I will just have met you, right? I can't tell you what makes you different. However, we can ask the right questions to uncover that. So if you reach out to us, if you reach out to me specifically, we do have a guide that we actually work with that's about differentiating your practice. It's our differentiator worksheet, if you will. And so if you want to reach out to me, no obligations. You don't even have to talk to me, although I love talking to everybody, love seeing a full schedule.
45:37
but I will send you that guide. I'm happy to drop that in the inbox. That way you're able to take that and start asking some of these questions yourself, even if you're just starting to think about that acquisition process, a startup practice, or even an established practice and ask those questions. Have I understood what makes me different? Have I thought about these questions or am I just the practice that's saying, hey, I'm a dentist and I treat my patients well, because guess what?
46:03
Probably every other practice is saying that exact same thing. That's right. That would be my takeaways. Take it or leave it, but I'd love to give you that guide that you can use and help or schedule time with me. And I'm happy to leave everything really from that holistic standpoint. That's a big give for us. I really appreciate you giving that. And I think that's a miss in acquisitions because a lot of people feel like they just buy a practice and they just kind of plug in and their identity and vision just kind of gets washed away because they just bought somebody else's.
46:34
I think that worksheet and that give is going to help them really figure out what they want to do in the future long term. So awesome, dude. Thank you so much for being on the program. Again, I still got the tag. Oh, man. You're still thinking about the return, right? This is ridiculous. This is just ridiculous, folks. Make sure it's a good reminder. Like us, follow us, Instagram, Facebook.
47:01
Definitely YouTube so you can see this ridiculousness. You can see Forrest's handsome face on there. We love you guys. I appreciate you listening and being a part of Shark Week. Shark Week's a fun time. It's during Shark Week and hopefully you guys are getting into the Discovery Channel. I was a big fan when I grew up so we're just carrying it on. Forrest, thanks so much man for being on the show. Thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun and I might have to go get a shark suit myself right here in San Diego.
47:29
Go scare some people down at the beach, who knows? You could get a shark skinned suit suit, that'd be badass. Little wetsuit or something. Maybe that's what I'll do next year. I'll wear a shark skinned suit, that'd be badass. Don't send me one of those, those are expensive. I'll make sure I let JoJo know. But yeah, hey, I appreciate it. lot of fun chatting with you and yeah, good talking to you. Yeah man, thank you again and Wondrous is a great firm. guys reach out, show notes below.
47:58
It was a pleasure having you guys on and we'll talk to you later my man. Awesome. Hey, take it easy.
48:07
We want to hear from you. Interact with your host, Michael Dinsio. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. Comment and subscribe.