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In Ecclesiastes 3:11, we read that God makes everything beautiful in its time. It is comforting to know that nothing is wasted in God's economy, but all of it will be used for our good and His glory. You're invited to join us for poignant conversations and compelling interviews centered on believing for His beauty in every season.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:02.119)
Well, welcome to the Everything Made Beautiful podcast. today, Ashley, I am so, so grateful for your willingness to come on the show and to talk to us a little bit today. So thank you so much for being my guest.
Ashley Opliger (00:16.398)
Thank you for having me.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:18.375)
Well, I have already done your official bio and intro. So people have a pretty good idea about what we'll be talking about today and specifically related to your book and your ministry. But your story is definitely marked by profound loss. You talk about adultery, divorce, the loss of your sweet daughter, your son's health battles, and even the loss of your dad last year.
So for those who don't know you yet or are just meeting you, will you just share a little bit about your journey and how you've seen God meet you in those really painful circumstances?
Ashley Opliger (00:59.498)
Yeah, well thank you for having me. I'm just honored to be here and yes as you shared an overview of all the trials I've been through, it's a little overwhelming because it's like okay I think there should be a quota on suffering and you know I've I sometimes I'm like am I like a modern day job what's going on here but I think what I really wanted is to
Everything Made Beautiful (01:14.567)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:19.847)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Opliger (01:24.782)
as you had said in your prayer earlier, steward my story well because, you know, all of these things have happened as a result of the brokenness of this world. Each situation was different. Some of it was because of the brokenness in my body or the brokenness in my son's body or the sin of other people's choices that have caused pain and suffering. And ultimately, yes, those are all part of my, my
bio I guess you could say, my testimony. But I think what I want to be remembered by is not by all of the things that have happened, but by how...
Everything Made Beautiful (01:51.569)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Opliger (01:59.234)
the Lord used those situations and those the suffering for glory, His glory and for my good and for the good of others. And so that is essentially what I want to be known for is, yes, I have walked through a lot of really hard challenges and grief and trauma and pain, but the Lord was faithful and He used those things for good and made made beauty from ashes. And so that's a summary of the challenges I've been through, but a little more about me. So I'm
Everything Made Beautiful (02:04.039)
Hmm.
Ashley Opliger (02:28.206)
Maybe you've already shared this with your audience, but I'm a wife to Matt and I'm also a mom to three children one in heaven a little girl named Bridget and then two boys that are eight and four and My I used to be a speech pathologist. That was my career before
Everything Made Beautiful (02:30.511)
Mm-hmm
Ashley Opliger (02:45.622)
losing Bridget and then starting the ministry. But now I lead the ministry. I'm the executive director of Bridget's Cradles. And really my life is a balance of ministry and motherhood. Sometimes I do it well, sometimes not so much. I'm still a decade into ministry figuring out that balance. But my life is very busy and full. But even through all of the trials, I have a very good and fulfilling life.
Everything Made Beautiful (03:12.421)
Yeah, that's so good. Your book is called Cradled and Hope and just so everybody knows, I'm going to link to it in the show notes and make sure you know exactly where to get it. But when I was just, it's almost like.
holding it even feels tender and it's written from a really tender and personal place. So when you're pouring out something like that, like what was that experience like of like, I'm going to write all this out. And I know for some people writing is cathartic and healing. And for some people it's really hard because in a sense it maybe reopens things. What did you find that experience to be like? And let people know what the book is about as well.
because whoo and such a profound title too.
Ashley Opliger (03:59.758)
Yeah, so Cradled in Hope, Trusting Jesus to Heal Your Heart as He Holds Your Baby in Heaven. The book is a book for grieving moms to navigate the loss of a baby, whether it's through miscarriage, stillbirth, or infant loss. And so the book is really bringing moms on a journey with Jesus to trust Him, to walk her from heartbreak to hope and from pain to purpose.
through the book, it's kind of a mix of personal testimony. So a lot of stories and as you alluded to, know, I really dive deep as an author. I very much want to be very vulnerable in the struggles and the emotions and the doubts and the fears and all of those things because I don't think we're doing a service as Christians when we just pretend that, I'm better now, God got me through it. But we really talk about the...
nitty-gritty journey that is messy and hard and painful. And so I really try to share all of that and be very open throughout it. And then a good chunk of the book is theology and biblical wisdom. I say that and I don't want that to scare anyone away. It's just I really try to write it in a way where it's this biblical truth to cling to that's very understandable and relatable to
Everything Made Beautiful (05:06.216)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (05:18.866)
grieving mom that's listening, but you know that has to be the core of my book or else what what hope am I even offering? And so then it goes into practical guidance each chapter has kind of a merge of all of these things of a blending of personal testimony and story biblical wisdom and practical guidance to really say okay well here's the biblical truth but how do we walk that out in grief and what does that look like and
Everything Made Beautiful (05:25.426)
Right.
Ashley Opliger (05:44.344)
how do I navigate this now? And so each chapter, there's a heading, a chapter title, but then there's a subtitle, and the subtitle is the emotion or struggle that they're walking through. So I have a chapter on when you are anxious or triggered, another one when you are hurt by others' words, when you can't forgive yourself. And so when you feel abandoned by God, all of these things that we feel when we're going through grief.
Everything Made Beautiful (05:55.611)
Mm.
Everything Made Beautiful (06:02.44)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (06:09.848)
but then the title of the chapter is the hope or the truth that I'm trying to impart. And so very much willing to sit in the sadness and sit in the mess of grief, but then really trying to say, okay, but I want to point you to Jesus and to the hope of heaven as a way out of walking through this with him.
Everything Made Beautiful (06:29.573)
Yeah, it's so true that two things are true. There is a hope, but there are some really real deep and visceral emotions. And I think sometimes as believers, we shy away, we feel like maybe we're not allowed to feel so viscerally or so deeply about something difficult that happens. And so I'm grateful for your willingness to hold that tension rather than trying to solve it. But the willingness to hold it and point people
toward hope and truth. When I was on staff at a church and leading women, one of the things we always participated in was a pregnancy and infant loss remembrance service. And so whether that be miscarriage or stillbirth or anything across the spectrum of loss. And one of the things I heard most often from women is that it is such a lonely and isolating journey. And a lot of people don't know how to talk about it or aren't sure
how much attention to pay to that journey. And so I think a lot of women feel unseen in it. Have you found that to be true as you've walked with women and even in your own story?
Ashley Opliger (07:41.1)
Yes, absolutely. as you were saying that I was thinking that it's kind of threefold. There's like three reasons I think that that is the case. I think one, we have a very real spiritual enemy that wants to isolate us and keep us lonely and keep us in the darkness of our grief. Two, we have a culture that is uncomfortable.
with grief and isn't willing, you know, or comfortable to sit in the sadness with us. And so and therefore we feel like we need to kind of keep it to ourselves or to push it down and to move on. And then the third is we have our own internal feelings of feeling like, well, I don't like to feel this pain, right? Because grief is painful and it's a natural human flesh reaction to want to numb that pain or distract ourselves, keep ourselves busy. And some some of us might turn to
to different things that are negative coping mechanisms, whether that be drinking, eating, spending, scrolling, whatever it is. Some of it might even be good things. Like my thing is actually ministry and it's interesting to say that in a negative light, but it's like sometimes I'll be quick to move to the ministry and the meaning making of my grief and not sit in it long enough before I'm ready to go and help other people.
Everything Made Beautiful (08:50.387)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Opliger (08:55.872)
And I'm not saying that it's bad to help other people or to make good come from it. But I think for me, I have to be careful to say I also need to spend time and sit and feel it because I don't want to rush through it because the healing comes from the grieving and lamenting and being with the Lord. And so I think for those three reasons, we have our own internal pressure to move past the pain. We have a cultural culture that's not really accepting and.
Everything Made Beautiful (09:10.952)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Opliger (09:22.094)
comfortable dealing with death and grief, especially the loss of a baby and then we have an enemy that wants to keep us lonely and isolated and as you as you know from God's Word, you know, he's a lion prowling around looking for the weak and if you think about it from a perspective of the enemy looking for someone that he can attack, it's like when you're grieving your weak, you're this wounded person and it's like he's like, well, this is the perfect time to take her out and to plant these lies and to plant these seeds and so
Everything Made Beautiful (09:24.455)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (09:47.816)
Right.
Ashley Opliger (09:50.274)
How do we combat all of that is we have community and we have other believers that are bearing our burdens with us and are pointing us back to the truth and the hope of the gospel. And so I think it is imperative to be in community, even though it's so hard and sometimes our natural inclination is to kind of go inward with our grief. It's so healing to come out and to just share that in all of the, even if it's the mess and the hard and the darkness of it, being honest with God and others of where we're at.
Everything Made Beautiful (10:20.145)
Yeah, that's so good.
One of the things that you talk about is that Jesus cradles our broken hearts, but he's also cradling our babies in heaven. Would you just talk a little bit about that? Because I can imagine for someone listening, and I know I have a friend who's a songwriter and she literally wrote a song for this very principle of it isn't that they are no more. It's that he's holding them until we see them again. So will you just unpack that a little bit as an encouragement for women?
Thank
Ashley Opliger (10:53.664)
Yeah, well first of all, that song just sounds lovely. I would love to know who it is and what the song name is. yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (10:58.373)
Yes, I'll send it to it's yes. It is my friend, Kristi Knuckles, and she, she has a song called Glory Baby and it's that very principle and it's, wonderful. yeah.
Ashley Opliger (11:10.446)
love that and I love Christie's Worship Music, so thank you for sharing.
Yeah, I think that that idea came for me when I was thinking about heaven and how close it feels because I think my daughter is in the physical presence of the risen Jesus in heaven, but yet his Holy Spirit is inside of me. And so at the same time, we are both in the presence of Jesus. And, you know, the Bible is very clear, we should not speak to the dead, but he is our mediator. He is our conduit to heaven. And so there's so many times that I
Everything Made Beautiful (11:26.856)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (11:41.01)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (11:44.448)
I'm like, Jesus, you are in me right now and you are with Bridget right now. Will you tell her that I love and miss her? And you know, I think it's such a beautiful thing to think how close heaven is. It's just a prayer away to talk to him. And so that's really what I was thinking when I titled the book was, yes, he is holding our babies and we have the hope to see our babies again, but he's also with us and he's walking through this grief journey with us and.
Everything Made Beautiful (11:51.953)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (12:12.258)
He's never gonna leave us. And so it's this heaven and earth, you know, thinking that he's there and he's here and he's with both of us. And we have the hope of heaven, but we also have the hope that he's gonna be healing us on earth.
Everything Made Beautiful (12:25.617)
Yeah, it's the thinness of the veil. And I find that once someone you love so dearly is in heaven, you realize how thin that veil can seem so often. Like it no longer feels really far away. It suddenly feels very close and very thin. I would love for you to just tell us about Bridget's Cradles. How did it start? I'd love for you to tell Bridget's story if you feel so led and just I want people to know about your ministry.
mystery.
Ashley Opliger (12:56.33)
Yeah. So Bridget is our first child and she was a honeymoon baby. We were so excited to get married and then shortly after be surprised with just this gift of life and
Everything Made Beautiful (13:04.018)
Hmm.
Ashley Opliger (13:10.318)
But however, I was 13 weeks in and this being my first pregnancy, know, everything was going well until this day I started having really heavy bleeding and I was rushed to the emergency room and I was diagnosed with a subcaronic hemorrhage and they told me that there was a chance I could miscarry. There was also a chance that it could heal on its own, but I would just need to go home and take it easy and see what happened. But it was a very large hemorrhage and it was growing larger over time. And I was on bed rest for 11 weeks.
Everything Made Beautiful (13:33.747)
Hmm.
Ashley Opliger (13:40.224)
I just stayed at home in bed or on the couch and went to some high-risk appointments in the meantime and one time my mom pushed me in a wheelchair around a store but that was it the rest of time I was in bed and so
When she was born, basically I had a placental abruption. So the hemorrhage had grown behind the placenta and caused it to rip away and that naturally put me into labor. And so I went to the hospital and within 30 minutes she was born and she was already in the arms of Jesus. She was not breathing. so
Everything Made Beautiful (14:02.739)
Hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (14:13.491)
you
Ashley Opliger (14:16.33)
Even though we knew that was a likely outcome because of the complications and going to all these doctors and them telling us, you know, there's a good chance this will happen, it still was just so shocking and heartbreaking and not anything a parent is ever prepared to face. And so.
In that moment, they had swaddled her in a traditional hospital blanket and she was only 13 ounces. So she was very, very tiny, but perfect. She had fingernails and peach fuzz and eyelashes. She was beautiful, but that blanket, she just kind of got like.
lost in there because she was so small. But then my mom placed her inside this little cradle that she had made. She was essentially trying to make a blanket and then God gave her the idea to knit the sides up and turn it into a cradle. And she fit perfectly in there and we were able to hold her for 24 hours in the cradle and love on her. And our families came and got to hold her and we had pictures taken. And so this this cradle just gave us so much comfort. It was a very dignifying way to hold her and
Everything Made Beautiful (15:01.651)
Hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (15:18.653)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (15:19.372)
From that moment, the hospital, they were just the staff, they said, we've never seen anything like this. We feel like this would be very helpful to other families who lose a baby in the second trimester because they didn't have anything. They had washcloths and medical basins and the large blankets. So we started donating them to the hospital. And then a little while later, we were on a news story and we shared our story.
Everything Made Beautiful (15:32.477)
bright.
Ashley Opliger (15:44.558)
All of a sudden it aired across the country and all these other hospitals were saying we really could use these. And I quit my job and started doing ministry full time. We became a 501c3 nonprofit and we've been doing the ministry now for a decade. And now we're in over 1600 hospitals in all 50 states and sending out 30,000 cradles and keep stakes a year. It's been amazing what the Lord has done from one little cradle that a grandma knit.
Everything Made Beautiful (16:03.315)
Mm.
Everything Made Beautiful (16:11.955)
That is, I mean, what a ministry, like a present on the ground ministry, not a not and this I'm not, you know,
reducing any of these but not just I'll pray for you or here's a gift card but I mean that is a tangible feeling of being seen and provided for so I just want to say I can't imagine what was going through your mind while you were on bed rest because that is a long time to know what could happen and be praying that it won't and so that
weight along with the eventual outcome to then turn that into something that is really beauty from ashes for so many people. What has surprised you the most about how God has grown that ministry?
Ashley Opliger (17:09.854)
So shortly after when we started the ministry and this all started in her empty nursery. So it started very small in this in little room and then it started taking over our basement and then we ended up moving into a headquarters nearby and we've been in there since but
Everything Made Beautiful (17:15.186)
Hmm.
Ashley Opliger (17:26.966)
From the beginning, I was just asking the Lord, like, what do you want us to do? Is it that you want us to be in every single hospital? Is it that, you know, some sort of number that you're wanting us to get to? And I just I remember walking our dog in this field and asking God that question. And I just heard him say, like, I want every grieving family to know about me and to know that they can see their baby again. And so I think from the beginning, it was just this, OK, the gospel.
Everything Made Beautiful (17:37.715)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Opliger (17:54.912)
is the the mission, but it's going to look like a lot of different things. And so as you said, you know, the cradle is the gospel in the sense it's it's a tangible act of love and comfort in the midst of the darkness of grief. It's a sanctification, like a sacred way to hold a baby. And so.
Everything Made Beautiful (18:06.065)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (18:12.96)
We share the gospel through that. have now, now that we have a headquarters and we've grown, we have a podcast, we have support groups online and in person. We have the book that I just wrote. we do remembrance events for mother's day and grandmother's day. we do, wave of light on October 15th, pregnancy and infant loss remembrance day. So it's grown into all of these different programs and events and services, but really at the core, if you just think of like an umbrella over all the things that
Everything Made Beautiful (18:32.541)
Yes.
Ashley Opliger (18:42.864)
we do is the gospel because without the gospel there's no hope that we're offering. You know, the cradle would comfort someone for 24 hours and then that comfort's gone. And so I think really wanting to follow up with families beyond the hospital after they have the cradle and they they leave with empty arms of sharing that hope with them that they can see their baby again and that Jesus is going to walk with them through their grief.
Everything Made Beautiful (19:03.795)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (19:08.123)
Yeah. Have you, I assume that you get an opportunity to literally physically walk alongside some families and some moms through this journey. What are some of the ways that you have seen God meet people in your time of walking with families?
Ashley Opliger (19:25.804)
Yeah, so we have, as I mentioned, support groups online and in person and it's every month. So we'll see the moms every month and then we have a Facebook group for them to kind of be chatting and talking and sharing stories in between those times. But a lot of times we will have moms come that are believers. They do believe in Jesus and they've they've grew up, they grew up in the church or something like that. But this
situation has like rocked them to their core and they are very much questioning how a good God could allow this to happen and that's a very valid question by the way if you're asking that. But I think
What I've seen that the most beautiful stories come from walking other grieving moms is like seeing people come in just very broken and questioning and doubting and angry with God and having all of these, you know, just feelings like, did he abandon me? Does he not love me? Is he punishing me? And then just seeing them really rely on the word of God and see his character for who he is and come out of that with a different perspective and allow God to use their grief for good. And that's been
own story and it's beautiful when I see it play out in the lives of other women and that's the hope of why I wrote the book and why we do the support groups is to see those redemption stories come out of such hard places.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:40.509)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:51.443)
Yeah. When you have experienced pregnancy or infant loss, you suddenly have a real clear idea of what is needed in order to help other people through that time. But for so many who have not experienced that or necessarily been around it other than to just hear that someone has experienced a miscarriage, for instance, what are some practical ways
that people can love and support somebody that they know of that has experienced this that goes beyond, you know, Christian-ese or platitudes or things that may seem helpful but are actually hurtful? What are some ways that we can actually be the hands and feet of Jesus rather than just saying things that don't really help in the moment?
Ashley Opliger (21:41.164)
Yeah.
Well, I love that question. And we actually put together a free ebook on our website just for this, because we found that that was a need that a lot of people, know, family members, friends, they they love someone that lost a baby, but they don't really know what to do, how to show up, how to care for someone. So we put together a guide. It's free. You can go to our website and find it. But we even have a gift guide of some ideas that are very specific to pregnancy and infant loss of like if you want to give them a gift on their due date or their baby's
Everything Made Beautiful (21:47.272)
Mm.
Everything Made Beautiful (22:06.995)
Mm.
Ashley Opliger (22:12.316)
day or for Christmas like here are some very meaningful ideas that are personalized and special for grieving moms so we have that as a resource but some of the ideas that that are shared in that book is that the ministry of presence of just showing up and being there to be willing to sit on their couch and listen to them not feel like you have to fix it you can let them cry and you can share their tears with them and
Everything Made Beautiful (22:14.407)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (22:22.088)
Mm.
Ashley Opliger (22:38.76)
showing up in very practical ways, especially in the early days, you know, it's, it's very hard to function when you're grieving and you're not getting a lot of sleep. It's hard to eat. It's hard to do the things that you used to do. So if you can show up and bring a meal or offer to pick up groceries or do something for them. but it is helpful to be very specific about it instead of saying like, let me know if you need anything, which is very kind and nice. And I've done that myself to many people. so I'm not shaming you if you've said that, but.
Oftentimes a grieving person is not going to take you up on that. They're just going to feel like a burden and they're not going to be like, actually, here's something you can do or actually can you bring me dinner tonight or tomorrow night? But if you say, if the person says, hey, can I bring you dinner? Would it be better on Tuesday or Wednesday night? Usually the person will be like, Wednesday would be great actually. So I think just being very practical and sharing some of the ways that you want to help and then letting them take
Everything Made Beautiful (23:23.869)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Opliger (23:35.884)
take you up on that is good. But I think just remembering those days, especially I've seen now with grieving my dad, know, it's like, it's like there's a lot of support in the beginning. And then it's like, over time, people kind of forget and you start hitting milestones and like there's fewer and fewer people that remember. And so I think and I experienced that the same with Bridget and so many moms that come to our support groups say the same thing that, you know, over time, the
Everything Made Beautiful (23:42.311)
Hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (23:48.904)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm
Ashley Opliger (24:04.832)
support wears off, it feels like their baby's forgotten and that no one's really checking on them. It doesn't feel like anyone really cares anymore. So I would say the ministry of presence and like longer term presence of remembering those days and just checking in even on the random days of saying, how are you doing? How's your grief going? How are you holding up? Those things can be very helpful.
Everything Made Beautiful (24:27.505)
Yeah, I've even taken to sometimes just like putting somebody's name on the calendar every six weeks and just telling, you know, my calendar to put their name there just because we need help remembering we're all doing so much so many places so fast and just having a reminder like it's not weird to put somebody's name on your calendar and as a reminder to yourself to check in on them because it will mean so much.
Ashley Opliger (24:40.728)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (24:56.751)
Ashley, you mentioned struggling with how could a good God allow things like this to happen, which is such a profound theological question, and it's one that we all ask in suffering. I'm sure that you wrestled with the same things personally, especially the magnitude of things that you've experienced, but the different kinds of things that you've experienced. As you said, some are, it's all the fallen world, but some are other people's choices. Some are our bodies, some, you know,
How have you wrestled personally with those questions and then what have been the anchors for your soul? Because we always have an enemy of our soul as you said and he's always wanting to accuse us with doubting the goodness of God. How have you anchored yourself in what you've walked through that could be helpful and hopeful for others?
Ashley Opliger (25:50.272)
Yeah, well, I try to answer that big question in my book, and it's kind of a theme throughout multiple chapters. I have some chapters in the beginning that are really about the feeling abandoned and about questioning who God is in the midst of grief and diving into what that looks like to study His character and let His Word be what impacts our circumstances. And I have this chart where I explain
For me, what I found was that I was really letting my feelings influence my thoughts and then my thoughts influencing how I viewed God versus letting God, his character and who he actually is impacting my thoughts and feelings and ultimately how I view my circumstances. And that was a huge shift for me when I realized I'm really, I have a really skewed view of God. I'm letting my circumstances kind of dictate
Everything Made Beautiful (26:33.649)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (26:45.23)
my feelings, which, you know, we live in a very broken world. We're dealing with so many painful things and our feelings are very volatile as well. And so it's like if we're going through all of that and we're letting that be how we view God, we're going to have a skewed version of him. And that's when we get into problems like, oh, he must not love me. He must not be good. You know, and those are errors in our theology. And I had to really pinpoint what I was
Everything Made Beautiful (26:53.265)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Opliger (27:15.274)
erroneously believing about God to help that. And then it's like, once I corrected those errors, and that wasn't easy because a lot of it's like, you know, we know things in our head about God, but we don't feel them. It's like, we know God's good. We know the Bible says he's good, but it's like, does he feel good to me? Does he does this feel good? Why would he let this pain be part of my life? You know, and so there's definitely a wrestle between your head and your heart. But I think as I've
Everything Made Beautiful (27:17.063)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (27:30.45)
Right.
Ashley Opliger (27:44.396)
progress through so many different trials. It's like really trying to just anchor myself on his character and saying like, it's, it, there's no way he can be changing based off of my circumstances and all the other people on the face of the earth, all of their circumstances. you know, the word says that he is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He's not changing. And so I just take so much comfort in that he is always good. He is always faithful that, you know, I go through different attributes in my book, but
that are often clouded by grief because, you know, when our grief will just cloud his sovereignty, will cloud his justice, it will cloud his faithfulness. And so just really having a firm understanding of who he is and his word and believing that to be true, because if we believe that to be true, we'll trust him. So a lot of times I think...
these skewed perceptions make us not trust him, you know, and some of that's the enemy. Some of that's just our own errors and how we've interpreted the word. don't know if it's, you know, cultural and things we've learned in the church, prosperity gospel, that kind of thing. But I think just having an accurate view of the gospel and of theology of suffering, that suffering, you know, we so often feel like, well, if there is suffering, must mean that something's wrong. He doesn't love me. It's like.
Everything Made Beautiful (28:42.215)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (28:47.474)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (29:01.486)
Well, Jesus suffered and he told us there would be suffering and that is part of this journey of sanctification on our way to heaven. And so we can view even our suffering in a different light.
Everything Made Beautiful (29:13.555)
For the woman who's listening today who is in the throes of loss.
like the visceral emotions, it's either been very recent or is still very heavy and very close. You know, her arms are empty. What would you say to her directly as a word of hope? Just kind of a, this isn't a fix it, this isn't a solve it, or even a, this is all you need to hear. But what today would be your message to somebody you were sitting across from who was just right there.
in the thick of grief over loss.
Ashley Opliger (29:54.09)
yeah there's so many things i would say but i think bringing that honest emotion to god like just all of it the hard the hard dark things that are in your heart the things that you're thinking i i found for me like the more that i can be honest with god with how i'm feeling about him or about what i'm going through in my life the more that he can
could break through that and to show me who he is. And sometimes that means saying really hard things. It might be yelling at him. mean, it might be saying things that you believe him about him that are not true, but just speaking it so that you can get that out of your heart and he can show you that and, and, not shaming yourself for being in that place because grief is so heavy and so hard. And so it's just like, just bringing it all to the
the foot of the cross to Jesus and just saying, okay, God, here is just my exposed heart and all of its just sadness and grief and pain and the ugly parts of it. Because sometimes grief brings out, like for me, every time I go through a new trial, it feels like it opens up all these other wounds and it just brings out some of just this like, it, right? And like things that the Lord needs to like work through. it's interesting how different trials can bring up different.
Everything Made Beautiful (31:02.759)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (31:12.416)
aspects of your life it's like okay there's still more healing that God is working on in me and just saying okay God here's all of it and here's where I'm hurting and here's where I'm doubting and here's what I'm believing about you and Lord will you meet me in it and I just so believe that if you seek him you know you will find him and he will be there he's promised that he is near to the broken hearted that he sees you and I think so often the enemy wants us to believe that he does not see us
Everything Made Beautiful (31:40.733)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (31:40.756)
And you look at the David and the Psalms and all of the cries of like, where are you Lord? Like, are you listening? Can you hear me? And I felt that before, like, what are you doing God? I don't understand. but like let those cries of lament come out of your mouth and journal them if that's something that's healing for you. and just be willing to sit with him and know that he does see you. He does hear you. He is close to your broken heart and he's not going to leave you. And I know it can
Everything Made Beautiful (31:57.427)
Hmm.
Ashley Opliger (32:09.932)
be really, really hard to believe that when you're in the dark. it's, it's, I understand, like I feel for the woman that's going through that, because it's like, you do, you just feel so hopeless. And like, is this ever going to end? Will there be light at the end of the tunnel? But the hope is, is that yes, there will be light at the end of the tunnel for believers, because we have heaven to look forward to. And we have
Everything Made Beautiful (32:32.945)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (32:34.57)
Even on earth a hope-filled future that God has promised us that doesn't mean a life without pain or without trials But it means a life with his presence and with him walking through these things and if he's with us, know We're gonna be okay. And that's a hard thing to say when you've been through so many hard things It's like we're gonna be okay like there's nothing on this earth that can separate you from the love of God like Come what may like i'm still somewhat young like there's gonna be more trials that i'm gonna face but i've
Everything Made Beautiful (32:57.459)
Hmm.
Ashley Opliger (33:03.968)
Said, okay, God, you've been faithful before you'll be faithful again. And no matter what happens to me, you're going to be there. You're going to see me through. And ultimately one day the suffering will end. There is an expiration date on the suffering and you will wipe every tear from my eyes. And one day death and sin and pain and crying will be no more.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:14.321)
Yes.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:22.161)
Yeah, one of the ways that Sally Lloyd-Jones writes it in the Jesus Storybook Bible, and this may actually be like J.R.R. Tolkien's words, but it's all the sad things will come untrue. And that just feels like...
Ashley Opliger (33:35.95)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:38.296)
such a hope and such a something we can cling to. I know I do, especially now that the veil is thinner, is that all the sad things will come untrue. If you could coach us just like
not shaming us, but those of us who inadvertently say things that are not helpful when someone is in the throes of grief. I know when my dad died, people said things to me because he walked through Parkinson's disease. So we knew what the likely outcome would eventually be. They said things like, well, at least you knew it was coming. So it wasn't as bad, you know, which is not helpful. No loss knowing it's coming or not knowing it's
Ashley Opliger (34:20.782)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:24.849)
that does not lessen the pain of loss. What are some things that people are well-meaning but say that are not helpful so that we can be a little wiser when we are interacting with someone who has lost a baby?
Ashley Opliger (34:40.874)
Yeah, well the comment that you brought up the at least you knew it was coming, know, anything that starts with at least never ends well. Because I'm on the flip side of it where we didn't, it was a sudden situation and so people will say other weird at least things and it's like it's not helpful, you know. And it's, it's just so weird the things that people will say and it's like wow that doesn't make any sense and
Everything Made Beautiful (34:48.539)
Yes.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:56.689)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:02.29)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:07.891)
.
Ashley Opliger (35:09.816)
when it comes to the loss of a baby, know, people will say, at least you were able to get pregnant or at least you have other living children or at least you can get pregnant again. None of those things are helpful. So I would say at least should be probably out of the vocabulary. Yeah. Yeah. But I think some of it is like, think people, they're uncomfortable with someone else's sadness and they want to do something to either fix it or to like bring the silver lining of like,
Everything Made Beautiful (35:15.571)
Mmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:21.138)
Mm-mm.
Stricken.
Ashley Opliger (35:39.508)
yeah, that was bad, but here's some silver lining. And it's like, but we actually don't need that. Like, can we just be sad that you lost your dad to Parkinson's? Can we just grieve your dad and grieve the pain of walking through an illness with him and how that would be hard? Like, can we just grieve that and not have an at least in there? And I think that's just hard for people as they want to fix it or they want to bring something good from it.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:56.285)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (36:03.197)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Opliger (36:08.632)
There's not to say that good won't come from enemy. You've shared with me before about how much good has come from your dad's death. That doesn't mean that you wanted that to be part of your story or that you wanted to lose him at 68 years old. you know, it's like, well, God will bring that, but you don't need other people trying to find that for you. And so I think more than anything, listening and asking questions is more helpful than trying to infuse.
Everything Made Beautiful (36:12.529)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (36:24.987)
Right? Yes.
Ashley Opliger (36:38.382)
what you think about it or what you think they should think about it. And pointing them to the word and to hope, you know, I had after I lost my dad, I had a friend that would just like read scripture and like send me voice messages of just Psalms. And it was like I was it was hard for me to pick up my Bible, but it was like I was just hearing truth spoken over me. And she would just read a psalm and send in a voice note, you know, and that was so helpful to me of like.
Everything Made Beautiful (36:40.595)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (36:51.72)
Mm.
Everything Made Beautiful (37:03.015)
Mm.
Ashley Opliger (37:06.07)
I just need to hear truth and I need to hear the word of God and even when it was hard for me to pick up my Bible. And so I would say listening and pointing them to truth without trying to fix it or try to offer some sort of solution or this is, you know, it's weird. It's always weird when people are like trying to say, well, that was bad, but it could have been worse. It's like, well, it was really bad. You know, like I always think like when people say like, at least you had other children.
Everything Made Beautiful (37:28.049)
Right? Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (37:35.234)
when they're talking about the loss of a baby, it's like you would never say, like at least your mom didn't die at the same time. Like, why would you say that? Like, so it's a weird thing. And I don't think that people are actually trying to be hurtful or insensitive. I really don't think so. So when I'm saying these things and I'm, you know, picking apart some of these comments, I do want to say like, I don't believe people's hearts are.
Everything Made Beautiful (37:43.283)
Yeah, yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (37:51.013)
No, I don't either. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (37:58.014)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Opliger (38:02.51)
ill intentions. think they just don't know what to say and these things come out and it's like their their their heart and it is good but the execution and the delivery can be hurtful and that's been helpful for me to have grace for people when they say things like that because I've chosen to see their heart like why did they try to say that well they were trying to comfort me they were trying to you know and and that has helped me not take it so personal or so offensive because it can be
Everything Made Beautiful (38:19.08)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (38:25.523)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (38:30.418)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (38:32.226)
hard to navigate that on the receiving end as well.
Everything Made Beautiful (38:35.025)
Yes, well and you know the heaven just needed another angel or these kinds of things that have become commonplace. It's like when in doubt show up with the ministry of presence and maybe let your words be few when you're not sure what they should be and reading scripture I mean what it's living it's active and it's healing when we use it that way so.
Ashley Opliger (38:46.562)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (39:01.649)
Well, Ashley, I know there's a cost anytime somebody shares their story. And so I don't want to just go, thanks for sharing your story. Cause you know, you wrote a book and everybody should read it. Everybody should read it and get it and figure out how you can be involved in the ministry of Bridget's Cradles. What a precious gift, such a specific, precious gift to families who are walking through losing a baby specifically in the second trimester.
But what a way for the gospel to go forth in.
a time when there you know what other way are you going to share the gospel in a time like that than to show up and literally provide a way to cradle. loved what you said you know Bridget's dignity was protected in the way that that cradle served your family. So I want to encourage you go to the show notes get Ashley's book get fine go to her website find out everything about Bridget's Cradles figure out how you can get involved or figure
out how you can connect an organization or a hospital that needs to know about this. But more than anything, Ashley, I just thank you for stewarding your story. I do know it comes at a cost and I don't want to just gloss over that because I'm really grateful. I, you know, we prayed before we recorded that God would go ahead and begin preparing the hearts of women who would and men, families who would hear or see this podcast. And so I know that he's done that.
And so I just want to thank you for your faithfulness.
Ashley Opliger (40:38.983)
Thank you so much. It's been an honor to be here.
Everything Made Beautiful (40:42.407)
Well, before we go, I do want to ask you the question that I ask all my guests, because this is the Everything Made Beautiful podcast, we firmly and resolutely believe that God is by nature a restorer, a repairer of the breach. He is always transforming everything. And we will eventually see the new heaven and the new earth and the perfection. But until then, he's still making everything beautiful in its time. And so I ask all
All my guests, if you could design, like you had the option to architect your perfect, beautiful day, what would it look like from start to finish? And my one caveat is there are no restrictions on the perfect, beautiful day. So like if you're allergic to gluten, you don't have to be allergic to gluten in the perfect, beautiful day. If you need to time travel or space travel, you can do that. So what would your perfect, beautiful day be?
Ashley Opliger (41:32.056)
Ashley Opliger (41:43.374)
Wow, yeah, there's a lot of things that come to mind. The gluten thing is the touchy subject. I'm not supposed to eat gluten. I don't have celiac, but it's for my best that I don't eat it. And I, there are many seasons that I will go gluten free for like a couple of years and then I'll be like, well, I'm going to eat some gluten. So probably would be eating gluten for sure on a perfect day, but I think it would be spent with my family. And if time travel was part of it, I think I would be going back to when
Everything Made Beautiful (41:54.675)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:02.227)
You
Ashley Opliger (42:13.328)
Bridget and my dad were alive to be with them and to love on them. almost thinking trying to travel, it's like, it be better to travel back in time or to travel to the new earth? Because that would probably be the best. But a day on earth, I would probably go back. But if I couldn't time travel, it would be spent with my family here. I genuinely love ministry. so it's
Everything Made Beautiful (42:15.933)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:25.372)
Yes.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:35.293)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Opliger (42:39.862)
You know, it's not work to me. It's a calling. And so I would, I would want to be doing ministry during that day. I'd probably try to add in some massage and some playing the drums. I've been learning to play the drums. love music. So, you know, it's interesting cause it's like a lot of my days look like that. I, I'm blessed that I get to live out some of those days. I just, yeah, I wish that I could be with Bridget and my dad and
Everything Made Beautiful (42:42.13)
Hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:51.014)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:55.723)
Aww.
Ashley Opliger (43:09.238)
Ultimately with Jesus so that would probably be the that will be the pinnacle is the new earth, but
Everything Made Beautiful (43:11.187)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (43:15.643)
Yeah, I love that. If you had said to me, I love music, I still would not have said, I bet you play the drums. So that was a fun surprise. Did you just decide that?
Ashley Opliger (43:22.923)
Ha
that's a surprise to me too. That's a surprise to me too. I actually started learning last year after my dad went to heaven. So he was a guitarist and he loved music and my childhood was listening to classic rock and listening to him play guitar. And so when he went to heaven, it's just, I think I was always meant to be a drummer, but it's just like for some reason, like the grief and everything, like it just hit me and it was like, I need to be playing drums. I'd never played drums before.
Everything Made Beautiful (43:40.113)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (43:55.85)
So I bought an electric drum kit because after the boys would go to bed, I would be down here drumming on my electric kit. And then I did a drumming bootcamp and took some lessons. And then that led to me getting an acoustic set. So now I've got two drum sets and I'm like all in with the drumming thing. I just love it. It's very healing from a lot of different standpoints. It's very expressive. It's actually from a brain standpoint with moving your different limbs, the left, right.
Everything Made Beautiful (43:58.216)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (44:20.071)
Yes.
Ashley Opliger (44:25.036)
brain hemisphere stuff, it's actually very good for grief and trauma. and it's connects me to my dad. So I just, I, I'm not very good yet, but, one day Lord willing, I'll, I'll be a better drummer. And at the moment I'm just enjoying learning and playing.
Everything Made Beautiful (44:32.317)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (44:42.035)
well, let me tell you something. Chick drummers, that is a good thing. We have a friend who's the chick drummer at our church and she is amazing. And it is so interesting the difference when she's playing versus one of all the great guys that we have. That's not a gender specific issue, but there's just something about...
Ashley Opliger (44:43.886)
yeah, skill it.
Ashley Opliger (45:01.281)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (45:07.789)
women in roles you don't typically see them in. So chick drummers and chick bass players like so so good. I'm married to a touring musician so I'm I'm you said that and I was like like
Ashley Opliger (45:09.247)
Yeah, no, I'm-
Ashley Opliger (45:13.282)
I'm for it.
Okay, I Know I know yeah, I so skill it they have she Jen ledger is what a drummer and I'm like, she's just so cool like and I don't know I feel like a lot of times are more expressive and they're drumming and I'm like if that's kind of what I want to do But it's gonna take a little while because I'm so busy I haven't had to be like very regimented on my practice schedule, but I did get some playing in earlier today. So that was good, but
Everything Made Beautiful (45:23.537)
Yes. huh.
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (45:38.855)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (45:44.684)
Yeah, it's a journey and it's been, even if nothing comes from it, if I'm not playing at church or any concerts or anything, which that would be pretty amazing. But I think for me, it's more just like having that private time to play music and to...
Everything Made Beautiful (45:49.692)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (45:56.53)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I even love what you said about your right, the left brain, right brain, and the help that it is in trauma recovery. That is very, very true. mean, music therapy period, but definitely moving in that way. Well, we are cheering you on as the Chick drummer. was a fun nugget that you dropped in there.
Ashley Opliger (46:15.946)
Yeah, yeah. A little nugget. Yeah, I should also throw in my perfect day would be flying planes for sure, because I'm also a wannabe pilot. So I forgot to add that in. But yeah, that would be part of my day. I've been doing some discovery flights the last year and got to be up in some planes. And that's been a cool thing. That'll probably be later in life that I get my pilot's license. But eventually, that would be a dream of mine.
Everything Made Beautiful (46:24.953)
Yes!
Everything Made Beautiful (46:39.846)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (46:45.745)
I will say I have a son who's a private pilot and he would say, yes, absolutely do it. It's totally worth it. And it's as great as you think it is. Yeah. listen, we're, you know, I I'm an empty nester come tomorrow. I actually take my youngest to England tomorrow to live there for a year. And so by the time this airs, she'll have already been there however long, but,
Ashley Opliger (46:48.555)
Okay.
that's awesome. Man, your family is cool. I'm like, I gotta hang out with you guys.
Ashley Opliger (47:08.767)
my word.
Everything Made Beautiful (47:13.809)
But my middle is my boy and he after high school was like, I think I want to be a pilot. And so I went to flight school and got his private license and he's wanting to be a certified flight instructor so that eventually I would imagine he would go commercial, but he'd like to be a private pilot of like, you can hire me and I'll fly you somewhere, but you have to have, you know, so many hours in commercial before you can do that. But.
Ashley Opliger (47:25.304)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (47:32.981)
Yeah.
Ashley Opliger (47:36.692)
Yeah, wow, that is amazing. Pilot drummer author chick, I don't know. Kind of weird, but that's me.
Everything Made Beautiful (47:39.548)
Yeah, so do it. Do all of it. Be a drummer, fly planes, do all of it. Yes, do it. You'll definitely have a niche. Nobody else will be competing with you in that. That's great.
Ashley Opliger (47:51.348)
Yeah. Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (47:54.546)
Well, Ashley, thank you so much. This was a delight and I know it's going to help people and everybody go to the show notes. Follow Ashley. Make sure you stay up with what she's doing. And as always, I'm going to encourage you to be on the lookout for the ways that God is making everything beautiful, including you. And we will see you next time.