Heat (Part 3)

Heat Part 3: The Iconic Diner Scene Showdown & Failed Heist Breakdown! 

“You want to be makin’ moves on the street, have no attachments!” Dive into the heart-pounding third chapter of our Heat (1995) analysis on The Director’s Chair Network! Join host Ryan and guest co-host Sully from The Jacked Up Review Show as they dissect the legendary diner scene where Al Pacino and Robert De Niro face off, plus the tense failed heist that shakes the crew. This episode unpacks Michael Mann’s tactical brilliance and the themes of loyalty and discipline that make Heat a crime drama masterpiece.
 

In Part 3 of our five-part Heat series, we break down the iconic diner scene, where Vincent Hanna (Al Pacino) and Neil McCauley (Robert De Niro) share their first on-screen meeting, dripping with mutual respect and tension. We also dive into the failed heist, Waingro’s betrayal, and Mann’s realistic portrayal of crime, inspired by real-life detective Chuck Adamson. Sully brings fresh insights from his Jacked Up Review Show, and we explore how Heat influenced modern heist films like Den of Thieves. Packed with trivia and analysis, this episode is a must for crime genre fans!

Creators and Guests

Host

Ryan Rebalkin

Guest

Cameron Sullivan

What is The Director's Chair Network?

Join Ryan and many featured guests and other hosts as they break down and review a variety of directors and their films!
So far, this podcast has featured films from Edward Zwick, John Hughes, Brian De Palma, and Michael Mann.
Soon, we will feature Edgar Wright, Sam Peckinpah, Paul Verhoeven, and David Fincher!

0:00
[Music]
0:07
[Applause]
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hello and welcome to the third installment of heat on the director's charity network I'm your host Ryan and
0:37
with me today I have a very special guest co-host Sullie Can I call you Sullie That's often what I go by Is that
0:44
what you go by Okay All right Well well I mean your first name is Cam Why do you go by Sullie Because I'm an Irish German
0:51
family and sole short for Sullivan Oh there you go Sully short for Sullivan
0:57
That makes sense Yeah Not to be confused with the airline pilot who crashed into the ocean No we do not want to confuse
1:04
you with the airline pilot So when they made that movie it wasn't
1:09
about you I I wish have an award What would your movie be about
1:16
Basically being a film student surviving awful college film professors Would that be cinematic Oh jeez Oh man that's a
1:23
story that that that sounds like a podcast within itself I feel like I just want to interview Sullie You're you're probably more fascinating than the movie
1:29
I don't know You're surviving What's this professor
1:35
What happened to the professor What happened Basically instead of being helpful he decided to just mock us be
1:41
cynical and then claim "I told you everything you need to know is "No you
1:46
didn't." And then he just started getting louder That's what I do with my kids When they don't listen to me I just increase my
1:52
volume and then they understand Well you're trying to reflect discipline This guy's saying "I
1:59
taught you this." says "No you're making us want to not talk to you or learn from you." Oh that's true Yeah So I really
2:07
appreciate you coming on and talking heat with me And as we're covering the third set of 34 minutes of But before we
Jacked Up Review Show Plug
2:15
get to that let's plug your podcast Go ahead and plug that for us now Yeah So
2:20
since 2019 we've been doing the Jacked Up Review Show You were a guest when we were talking Planet Hollywood of all
2:25
things We've gotten better at sound audio and remixing since but we decided
2:31
years ago let's just do a variety show instead of just blogging endlessly getting annoyed that no one read the blog Let's let's just talk because it's
2:38
there in the space forever Someone can discover it They might even just check
2:43
it out just because you use the right keyword But we we've covered everything from retro comedians to movie franchises
2:51
And it's always fun doing the franchise versus franchise because then you have to basically it's a fun allout wrestling
2:59
match And we would always joke at the start oh just do a coin toss if we can't
3:04
decide and more without fail Wait we got to do a coin toss
3:10
Yeah you guys have covered quite the gambit It's It's hard to to nail what your next episode might be about You're
3:16
for better for worse you're all over the place We we try to do a theme each week We got a headline themed week going but
3:23
yeah we we had to get better at just the promotion and just get everyone into the predicting the
3:30
unpredictable Do you have any regular co-hosts right now or is it just always a rotating guest host We we have Tom JJ
3:37
and Gil And that was often the best get together Mike who had been a former college DJ was also wonderful And just
3:45
and that's why we got more into the retro tunnel is let's do a classic 70s rock band Let's go into this other
3:50
comedian who's criminally forgotten but whose style has influenced everybody you know and love All right All right
3:57
Awesome So it's the jacked up review show Yeah I did do a Planet Hollywood episode It's been a couple years and it
4:03
was a fun fun to discuss that franchise a failed restaurant franchise now It should have worked Why didn't it work
4:09
Well yeah they're just not the stars they used to be Sully we all have to end our our time in the sun ends one day
4:15
Hopefully your jacked up review show doesn't end And I will say this you have probably the best intro song of any
4:23
podcast I've ever heard and it's a banger of a song First who is the artist and how did you get them to record for
4:29
you It was Gravity Factory and Jason Mays and I just kept in touch after I did a music video for him and I just
4:35
decided hey I need a banger of a theme to get everybody's attention What do you got for me You you did a music video for
4:42
them Yes What Like you filmed it correct I will Is it on YouTube I will be happy
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to share it with you Oh that's fantastic I would love to see that Okay that's pretty much I think music videos are the
4:55
best perfect in between Instead of filming a short film or proof of concept that you just throw away after the fact
5:00
and no one can watch it you might as well just do a music video It's short sweet it's shorter than an episode of TV
5:06
even Yeah Yeah Music videos have been around for a while They're not going anywhere I think they're the ultimate
5:11
medium And now hopefully people watch this on their music video station which is called YouTube nowadays So hopefully
5:17
people watch this episode Make sure you plug this on the jacked up review show on your next episode Sully I'm going to hold you to it I'm going to listen to it
5:24
You better you better plug this Okay So now we're we're talking Michael Man this
5:29
season Of course we're now talking Heat What is your overall fandom if you have one but what is your overall fandom of
5:36
Michael Man So I list him in between the A and the B crowd He he definitely is a
5:42
Sydney Lame kind who just loves exploring the dark side of humanity And
5:48
it's so funny how all these other filmmakers who have gotten into beefs with each other from Oliver Stone to
5:53
William Freenin accusing each other of stealing from one another and it's like you guys are literally all in the same
6:00
maze You're all drinking from the same well So why why is there so much ego and
6:08
right animosity between each other when you have all done a delightful job in your collaborations
6:15
and I again it is wild how you're going to go through all his other upcoming
6:20
ones because I can't do today's Michael man but I can do all the 80s and 90s hits just how he experimented with
6:26
horror mystery and he he loves mixing in pitch perfect sound quality that does
6:33
make you feel like you are over the character shoulder just listening in to all this mayhem Yeah No it's good That's
6:39
a good summary You mentioned William Friedrich and Oliver Stone They had a beef I don't I'm not aware of that beef
6:45
So Oliver Stone has accused so many people of stealing from him Like Scarface is more my movie than Palma's
6:51
movie Oh And he had words with Michael Chimino who he wrote some screenplays from But then he and William Frein
6:58
started a whole beef on DVDs going away or no it's not VHS is here to stay You
7:04
guys are both wrong but you're both brilliant because you buy your BS
7:10
Now where does this lead to Michael Man William freaking did to live and die in LA And Michael Man never forgave him for
7:17
that He's like "You stole from my show My Heavy Vice and Man Hunter You stole my stuff." Oh really And it's just for
7:24
God's sakes you guys both have similar tastes You both love Tangerine Dream You both love cops and robbers and
7:31
corruption and gray morality tells There's why not just work together
7:37
embrace each other's success Hey this is why we are grateful to have you on the show and I've had other podcasters on
7:43
the show because we like to embrace each other's success So I believe in the podcasting world we should not be like
7:48
those battling directors We should embrace each other's successes and shows and you better not you better never turn
7:54
on me That would be horrible But you you do it so it like you take on
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some of the most bizarre internet memes I I still dig the video game one is like
8:05
why do people pretend to like this game It's not a good game Oh yeah So listen
8:10
referring to I do have another podcast called the worst of the best No that's okay There's people that listen to this feed that have no idea I do another
8:17
podcast called the worst of the best podcast and Sull's referring to the Yeah I do a variety like your jacked up
8:22
review show I do a variety of different topics almost every week with my brother Jason and some other guests co-hosts
8:29
from other podcasts there as well Okay So now what is your overall fandom of
8:34
the movie Heat Where do you rate it amongst movies in general or against Michael Man's other films It's
8:40
definitely a must-see heist film even though it gives you pretty much everything audiences are looking for
8:46
Sometimes people cry predictability or whatever I think it's more of an experience movie people are getting so
8:53
caught up in trying to predict the next plot twist instead of feeling immersed and embracing the noir style But yeah
9:01
90s Michael Man is definitely a must because he blurs that line between a blockbuster action director like John
9:07
McTurnin and John Woo and then mixes it in with some of these other gritty crime guys But that this is a must especially
9:15
when you're going to see today's movies are stealing so much from the collateral and heat method Everything from Denn
9:21
Thieves to literally check out the newest movies that Stixs Media and Open
9:27
Road films are putting out They're almost all Training Day and Heat inspired They they have so many 21
9:33
Bridges was one that came out I never saw that one Oh who's in that Who's in that one The Black Panther actor JK
9:40
Simmons Oh there there was also one movie I think you'd dig that had Woody
9:45
Harelson Anthony Mackey uh Triple 9 and Oh I never heard that one either That
9:51
was a total training day movie All these cops stealing from banks
9:57
trying to they owe the Russian mafia x amount before midnight
10:03
Speaking of banks and robberies and Michael Mann I noticed watching this movie or specifically this part of the
Failed Heist Scene Breakdown
10:09
film that we're covering today the third set of 34 minutes of film coverage There is a scene where the crew is doing early
10:17
well they didn't quite succeed but they're starting to do a robbery and it gets interrupted by a mistake by the cops And it occurred to me that Michael
10:25
Man obviously wanted to revisit his time on Thief Now did you watch Thief Yes
10:30
Thief was one I came to later but it's essential in seeing how he organizes all
10:37
this stuff Yeah So I think Thief wasn't widely seen at the time and I don't think it's even widely seen now It's a
10:44
wonderful film I saw for the first time covering Michael Man's films for this podcast I hadn't seen it till I covered
10:49
and Yeah that's right You you know who Kaylee is Yes Yeah How do How do you know her She's been part of the Who Are
10:55
These podcast network Oh that you're on that No but I've been roasted by him but
11:01
it's fine Oh no I don't mean I don't mean I don't mean you were a host No
11:06
I've just seen roasted by Oh okay How do you feel about that How do you feel about is it actually a bit of an honor
11:12
to be noticed by them to be honest with you It is what they do They They are a roasting podcast You took a while
11:17
because some people take it very poorly Sully I don't know if you know that That's why I asked about your intro song
11:23
because it is such a banger of a song They will play it on their show as a way to wake up their own audience
11:30
That's the legacy you've left for them Oh man I think it's fantastic Yeah you've been covered a couple times and I
11:36
put this way My show might be so boring that it's not worth covering Does that make sense My shows are so boring I
11:41
don't know if the boring is the right word because they cover shows that are good as well like really good that they
11:48
really enjoy and then they cover shows that are fun to take the mick out of a little bit I'm in that in between gray area where like yeah I'm passable So
11:57
Jeez you like that one I don't suck Okay No I don't I don't know if that's quite true either Depends on the episode I
12:04
just want to say you you are a celebrity amongst that amongst the fandom So take take a bow my friend Take you and her
12:10
brought up man's voyuristic style and how similar movies like Stoker have done
12:16
that as well as just how we're getting prepped for slowburn kind of psychological stuff Now Thief pretty
12:23
much implements how Man approaches the crime genre People have likened Miami Vice to 48 Hours Walter Hill kind of era
12:30
but Thief that that's where he becomes familiar with Eddie Bunker who's best known as being Mr Blue and Reservoir
12:36
Dogs Okay And Runaway Train So by studying that excon turned author that's
12:43
how he gets all the material about a theft and how long it's going to take to
12:49
conduct a heist how you assemble a crew how criminals once they implement this there is no going back And we understand
12:56
why they don't want to have a normal job because the rap sheet is just so horrendous they're never going to have a
13:01
normal everyday life So Thief pretty much implements the whole Man style from
13:07
that point And it's wild how Heat influences collateral and then the rest
13:12
is history I agree That's what I was thinking about with Thief is how Michael man went back to that reservoir of the
13:19
heist of the thievery essentially And I think it's almost like he he said to himself I've got a little bit of clout
13:25
now I've done Last Moheakans I've got a bigger budget now I've got Robert Dairo I've got Alpuccino Kilmer He's got a big
13:30
cast a big budget Thief didn't do well but I want to not I guess he stole from himself It almost felt like I was
13:36
watching Thief again It's almost like Thief 2.0 Yeah 2.0 Better said Yeah Very good Did you ever watch LA Takedown No
13:44
but I talked to my co-host Craig on that episode We brought that up cuz he saw it and he gave me the answer I needed to
13:51
hear because I trust Craig explicitly He said "Yeah he Craig's great He's the best." He said essentially
13:58
it's a glorified TV pilot It's not good Oh you saw it as well Same idea But the
14:03
cast is dynamite You got evil Berkeley in the Wayne Grain roll You got Daniel
14:08
Baldwin pre homicide life on the street as one of the detectives at the robbery
14:14
So it is interesting when people say "Oh a remake can't be good." This is a remake but he went beyond the limited
14:21
cut for time TV budget He got better actors You're not confined to the TV
14:27
algorithm of language and violence and TV you have to fill time And he had to
14:33
say "Okay let's cut that out That's all offcreen." Exactly Okay All right So again this is part three of Heat So this
14:40
is the third set of 34 minutes of film I always forget where this scene is until I see the movie And of course it's a
14:46
classic Alpuccino moment And not even the Hooa it's the other one What do you
14:52
think before he starts being Cammy again But and so that's a perfect time is I don't have to do gangster roles anymore
14:59
I'm done sin of a woman So now I'm going to give you what you want which is an
15:04
intense Is that what we want Is that what is that what the fans want Is this crazy Alpuccino Well now that you say it
15:10
that way it is almost a Shatner level Do I want over-the-top pacino or do I want
15:15
hammy but miscast pacino or do I want perfect as many
15:21
God I've forgotten this sort of was the film where oh we're doing this now with Pacino This is what he's doing now He
15:27
decided to be this way So here's the famous scene here in this part of the film where Alpuccino's character is
15:34
talking to Hank Azeria's character regarding Vel Kilmer's girlfriend This happened in part one of the film
15:41
coverage where Hankazeria was sleeping with Ashley Jud and now they said "Hey
15:46
we got this guy We're gonna basically blackmail him to give us the location of the crew identity of the crew And so
15:53
they're interviewing him and Alpuccino's character
15:58
Go back So just bear with me as I You're already laughing You're already laughing You know what's going to happen
16:06
Charlene Sherless Who Who Who Are you [ __ ] owl The lady
16:13
you've been talking dirty to on telephone every day last week Yeah All right You know what You can't tie me to
16:19
her Yeah Who needs to Cuz your ass is on a plane back to New Jersey Jag off Oh man I just want to get mixed up with
16:26
that [ __ ] Here She got a great ass Okay
16:33
All right So I got to ask I want to hear your opinion Is this Aluccino doing this
16:38
on his own or is this Michael Man telling him "I want you to deliver the line this way." Which one is it It's improvised cuz Hangazeria actually
16:45
confirmed that in an interview He didn't know he was going to go for that Oh really Yeah So much it wasn't just the
16:51
coffee scene It wasn't just some of the other body language Dairo was doing That's fant Well let me just go back
16:57
then I want to see if they show a reaction Yeah Yeah Is
17:03
just that alone Okay Yeah Maybe that reaction got to be in character cuz time is money And Yeah that's true too
17:11
I want to get mixed up with that [ __ ] cuz she got a great ass
17:18
You can see it now That's great That's fantastic So what what's your overall fandom regarding now We always do this with all of our hosts when we talk about
17:24
certain actors What's your fandom of Alpuccino I saw this movie every time it was on TNT TBS I was a good film buff My
17:32
dad was the oyster to classic rock My mother showed me all kinds of sitcoms and 80s pop music So I had the best of
17:40
all worlds and sometimes I'd even go over to my grandmother's who was my mentor as both a teacher and just a
17:47
historian in general and it' be plenty of masterpiece theater time I loved the first two Godfathers and I saw some of
17:54
his better stuff and I just understood instantly why Sydney Lame fell in love with him and got the best performances
18:01
from both him and Sean Connory and yeah Heath is just the perfect gateway It's
18:06
was for the Millennial crowd It was for the other guys who had seen him in some other stuff like Sea of Love People like
18:12
making fun of him cuz he is one of those much like Dairo much like Christopher Walkin and Sam Jackson who I'm surprised
18:18
aren't in this movie given how they're in everything But they became successful after a while and then started making
18:24
fun of their alter ego and then after a while had to get out of there and say "Hey remember I can still act I've done
18:29
Denny Collins I've done all these other comedies but people want me to do the over the top in your face
18:37
Can you do got a great ass I don't want to put you on the spot I definitely can't do it justice but I I can I do
18:44
love Frank Kelly ando and some of those other comedians who would parody him for a while Oh do they do there's I guess
18:49
there must be Yeah the whoa That's pretty good That's pretty good All right
18:54
I'm glad you picked this part for us cuz this is the column before the storm Yeah It's funny your part ends right so part
19:02
four which will be with my co-host Katie I think you know Katie very well Yes
19:07
she's great And so she lucked out when I divided up this basically for our listeners what I did was folks really
19:13
this is really mindmelting what I did here I knew I was going to do this movie in five parts You know what I did Sully
19:20
I took the time of the film and I divided it by five
19:25
pretty it's pretty crazy right into five equal parts So that's 34 minutes of film for each co-host to cover So anyway so
19:31
when I sent out the who wants to join me on heat it was just a combination of who
19:37
answered first and what their schedule for recording was So you were actually scheduled after I scheduled with Katie
19:45
but I was able to get you on before Katie's date if that makes sense So you actually Sorry you missed out on the
19:51
heist or the bank heist scene Katie gets that Literally her 34minute segment
19:57
starts with the bank heist That's all good Make it easy But what does your scene have What is
Waingro’s Betrayal Analysis
20:02
the big scene that you're everything We got Wingro betraying the crew We got the
20:08
robbery crew being made while the detectives are playing chicken We conclude with Neil hiring Breeden to be
20:14
his new wheelman Dude you forgot the biggest part of the whole How Why would you skip the scene The big scene
20:21
The diner scene Oh okay Yeah but I I even Okay Yeah that is the scene because
20:28
everybody can talk about that I I love these three particular scenes cuz no one talks about them even though they are
20:34
fair All right Nobody talks about them at all Which one do you Which one do you want me to go to Let's pick one I see you got some notes there Good job You
20:40
got more notes than I have Do we want to just go into Vanzant since we were talking about him off here Just
20:47
Which one Which scene is that Just Wayne Gro betraying the crew with Vanzant just
20:52
because William Fner man there there's a chameleon Yeah How do you pronounce his
20:57
last name I I think it's Fner Fner Yeah But yeah I was always like Fisher but like the director David Fcher What What
21:04
Yeah true So Wangro is a great great character Oh actually before we get the
21:10
the Wangro scene that you're talking about but here's the visual of the of the heist Now it's a failed heist
21:16
because it gets interrupted like I said but this is them breaking in with the concrete smashing and the drilling and
21:22
all that stuff Yep This is very apppropo or very sorry or not appropo is the
21:27
right word but very reminiscent of the movie thief I thought Mhm Good point So yeah I just when I saw this it was just
21:34
Yeah So then we go into the Wangro you're right betraying the the group that tried to off him in the parking lot
21:40
And the Wangro actor I forget his name off the top of my head I mentioned it when we covered it but he does such a
21:45
great job in this film and it's just weird that he never really he had some roles but you never really like some of
21:51
the movies he's been never even heard of type films It's odd that he didn't get better work from this film I don't know why that is It's just typ casting People
21:58
only see in a certain way and unless you got a good manager or make a killing just people don't want to
22:06
give you a chance which is a shame because so many talent has worked on this Andy McNav the original Bravo 20
22:13
was an adviser on here with the technical weapons Oh okay Kevin Gage he's really probably the only good guy
22:19
role I can think of is from GI Jane He's one of the hotthead recruits in that Then he was in the serial killer horror
22:26
film Strange Land which I think is underrated But yeah surprisingly after that just just be movie director video
22:32
stuff and you're like he's he's not that bad Okay so here's the scene with Mr How
22:39
do you say his last name again Boy just Fner Yeah ignored the T Just Fisher Oh okay I like that Ignore the T All right
22:45
And now W Rango comes in to betray the gang again Not a thing Not hearing
22:52
bothers me anymore Where's this guy This guy here You put him on Says he
22:58
knows Macaulay I just love the way he walks in looks around Then plus that body language Whoa
23:05
whoa whoa No one walks in here unannounced Yeah Living in this office day and night How well do you know him
23:13
Oh we took some major scores together Now he says right there "We took some major scores together." I thought he was
23:19
just hired when the movie started So is he lying here He He is He's telling a
23:25
white lie to cuz he wants money He wants whatever he's going to pay him just for a tip
23:32
He's acting no better than an unreliable criminal informant on all the crime shows we watch is just like he wants
23:37
whatever he can do to milk this Make it be sexier than it actually is I was like "Yeah no I was only in one heist but
23:44
that doesn't sound great when I'm giving you information." Oh we did a lot of stuff together Oh yeah Okay That's what
23:50
I thought because he does such a good the actor does such a good job playing the character who's lying to Fishner's
23:58
character that I was like is this like a plot hole Does that make sense No I I I got lied to I got convinced as a viewer
24:04
I was like "Oh wait a minute He's lying but he's doing such a good job lying as an actor that I got tricked into
24:09
thinking is this a plot hole?" Did they forget that they just hired him at the beginning of the movie Yeah Man moves so
24:15
fast And this is why all his movies even the ones I don't like benefit from a rewatch cuz then you can see
24:22
why he did all this buildup why he echoed it that way I was watching it with family introducing them to it and
24:28
they were totally understanding why this movie is copied so much and they were
24:33
like hey did he invite them It's like no why else would Henry Roland's muscle
24:39
character introduce him that way It was like someone's here to see you
24:45
And again that's why he he gives a WTF look briefly there in the lefthand
24:51
corner You don't have to tell me your age solely I don't want to I don't want to It's all good I was going to say because
24:57
this movie came out 30 years ago So when did you first see it Yeah I dare say you didn't see it when you were 5 years old
25:02
I definitely saw it in the 2000s and it was a TBS mainstay but Oh I see You saw it on Okay You saw the TBS cut first
25:09
Okay Fortunately it is like all these other movies we love It's not
25:14
bastardized to where Okay Cheesy language edits It It is There's a few
25:20
curse words There's not too many What about Pacino's part on TBS Did he say great ass or did they go great butt They
25:25
just just cut to you know just you're on your way out of here Just Oh they didn't
25:30
say the great ass part So when you saw it on DVD for the first time were you like laughing That plus when he froze
25:36
the TV out that they just cut a lot of stuff for time But in a way it's funny
25:42
now when some of the other tragic stuff with his family happens It it hits me
25:47
and watching it this time I was able to appreciate even more of just some of the surveillance stuff that is modified
25:53
slightly and the the main thing for me was just the restaurant It isn't the exact same way but it's also cut in a
26:01
way where it's it's not rudely interrupted like other TV edits where you know like for instance Tarantino should never be on edited TV You won't
26:08
that doesn't work Yeah No In 48 hours you can't understand anyone saying and it's so it took me years to appreciate
26:13
stuff like that So that's just it It's got to be a movie like this like A Few Good Men where yes there's blatant
26:18
dialogue there are a few bloody squibs but it's not to the point where it's you not too bad You take something out
26:25
nothing makes sense It's not that kind of movie Even we talked about even Manhunter I talked about that with
26:31
Christian Blat there And when he and I were talking about Manhunter it's not even that like Silence Lambs has some
26:39
pretty bloody scenes and sequences but even Silus Lambs isn't that bad But Manhunter doesn't really have very it's
26:45
a lot of it's just offscreen The Burning Death is just slightly modified and you're good to go Yeah Yeah Yeah Maybe
26:51
Al Pacino's scene in this movie on the TVs cut was she's got a great mind on her or she's got a great head on her
26:57
shoulders Maybe that's what they I wish I had a copy of it cuz watching it this time again I explicitly remembered even
27:04
jumping ahead Chris getting on an airline and showing his fake ID to the cops So I
27:10
don't know if I was misremembering or some TV edits have different scenes that aren't in the movie to film
27:18
I don't mind Cobra I like it better than Over the Top and I and I'm different cannon film Yeah So this is a great
27:25
scene I do think they modify it on TV just for time You fill in the blanks to
27:30
the betrayal exchange Now what's the other scene that you wanted to talk about Look at Look at Sully not wanting to talk about the We're going to talk
27:36
about the diner scene here We will No no no Salt He's such a He's such a what do you call it He's such a film nerd Oh
27:43
everyone talks about the diner scene How I'm not I'm not going to insult the I'm not going to assault my film nerd
27:48
knowledge here Talk about that D It's a good thing I didn't have you on for the bank heist shootout scene You'd
27:54
be like "Yeah a bunch of guns go off next." Okay All right No I All right So what's what's the other scene you got
28:00
there Ah man Do we want to just jump ahead to even It's Oh the I don't care about going in order It doesn't matter
28:06
You can jump around Okay I think you really wanted to talk more about the failed heist We could talk a bit about that because the failed heist Oh you're
28:13
talking about where they get caught or Yeah because I knew that the robbers were made out but I totally forgot about how Dairo makes them out also Well
28:20
actually that's a great sequence Okay so back to the failed heist Yep So the cops
28:26
with Alpuccino and his gang of cops they're in the van surveilling Now I
28:31
didn't catch how they knew that they were going to be there for that score Do we know how Alpuchccino and the cops
28:38
knew that they much like the profiling and coming across Chris's wife All that's offscreen and left to the
28:44
imagination but I think it helps that this movie is so well put together in every place It's not the kind of movie
28:50
where we're like that's clunky or that doesn't make sense I am giving the impression they trailed them or they got
28:56
some other inside help that that they say their cars and stuff suffer bug because they didn't mention afterwards
29:01
when they got away the Robert Dairo and the gang got away Dairo says to Kilmer
29:06
I'm just using the actor's names Yes I know because then people can know who I'm talking about They said assume everything's tracked Assume everything's
29:13
bugged They came to that conclusion because they probably are asking the question I'm asking How they know we were here How do they even know we were
29:19
here Just assume that yeah the everything's bugged So of course they're in the van Classic cops in a van
29:25
watching the heist Yeah And this one cop he's walking around with a gun slinged around his shoulder M16 rifle and
29:34
he bangs it against the side of the steel van And that of course alerts
29:41
Dairo's character outside He's just standing out there on watch But what I love about that is one it
29:48
just takes that one idiot to ruin the whole because they would have gotten them too if they walked out with the
29:54
loot I don't know quite what they were robbing here Yeah Albuccino and the gang would have come out with grand lararseny charges whatever Say "Okay guys you're
30:00
going away for 20 25 years You're literally caught red-handed." They were ready to catch him red-handed I'm glad you brought up the loop We never see it
30:07
We would feel cheated as an audience member to see it and it never is shown again It would be hackne screenwriting
30:14
It doesn't matter what they are robbing because they're they don't talk about Do we do we even know because this is not
30:19
the bank heist It's a warm-up It's a side hustle before their inevitable score which they may or may not agree to
30:26
but Chris is going to agree to either way Vilmer's character I'm glad you brought up the loot I'm glad we never
30:31
see it because it's irrelevant They don't get it They won't be able to Here's the sequence here What I really
30:37
like here it's hard for our audio listeners I do apologize So you'll hear the clank of the rifle against the van
30:43
inside the van Then everyone inside the van freezes like they don't breathe almost Andro's character just hearing
30:49
the one clunk and he looks at the van But what I love is you see him looking Al looking and they're both looking at
30:55
each other but they can't see each other It's almost like the six sense of each other But then you see Dairo's character
31:01
with the heat camera his face looking and it's just such a cool effect of you see him looking at the camera Yes Yes
31:08
that has a heat residence And let's just watch that play out here So Buddy knocks against the van Dao looks right away
31:15
right at the van So they're both looking Yeah And I just love that look that Dao gives They're both looking at each other
31:22
You can just see them looking the night vision That's right Sorry Night vision camera And you can see the eyes are lit
31:28
up almost boring into the police van of like you efers I heard you So tactical
31:35
And it is wild too how people forget that both of them are Marines
31:41
That's right Good call Yeah but most people aren't going to see that with the new darker remaster that Neil has that
31:47
tattoo when he gets out of bed Oh okay Good catch Yeah But from this viewing I
31:52
was able to infer that from Kilmer's character's tactical ability as well as there was some special forces stuff on
31:58
Tom Seismore's criminal profile I think that Michael Man has given enough interviews stating how both characters
32:05
are the same person on opposite ends of the law I I hope everybody gets this by now I don't think I got it till you just
32:12
said it It's funny that you said it just like that I guess it's so in my face I Yeah they are I didn't know it So you
32:20
you brought me to the light Thank you Know that I I guess I just never thought
32:25
of it You said you just don't get that on the first impression You just get this is cool This is cool Oh my god I'm
32:30
still lost a little bit in the luster of the film I admit I'm still a little bit lost in the luster of L and Robert sharing the screen time together that
32:37
I'm not paying attention to the characters so much that this is a big his like this is like a movie cinema
32:42
moment to have these two actors together on screen in such a high-profile film that I you're right I should just if I
32:49
look at the characters you have them both who are loyal to the cause both equally as good at what they do and they
32:55
see each other as equals and they have this mutual respect but that's the diner scene that's why we have to show a little bit of the diner scene because
Iconic Diner Scene Discussion
33:01
they're basically at the end of dynasty and they're like "Hey push comes to shove we're both going to have to take care of what we have to take care of
33:07
It's not personal but if I see the heat and blah blah blah and you come around the corner I'm not going back to jail."
33:12
And the other guys I'm going to take you to jail So someone has to lose And that's the great moment in this film
33:18
without revealing the end right now because there might be someone who hasn't seen the film or been a while That's the big reveal at the end is how
33:24
does this play out How is this resolved with these two characters and actors Who who wins But I forgot about that part of
33:31
the dialogue where I don't know how to do anything else and I don't want to I'm like whoa
33:38
So you could learn but you won't You don't want to do it at this stage of your adulthood And it's just so
33:44
interesting hearing that from the cop as well who has no life And usually on the
33:49
first viewing you just let okay failed marriage hates the stepdad all that On this viewing I got even more of the I
33:56
don't even know what to do with myself like I'm bored I love steakouts I'm good at it So I'm going to keep doing what
34:02
I'm good at on four hours of sleep and coffee All right So here's the scene here of them realizing hey we've got
34:09
heat We've got real heat Obviously the cops are there And here we go And they're talking about we might have one
34:15
more score left that we got to part ways This is the last big one Do we rob this bank or not Because we've got heat on us
34:21
now There's a score they're on to place not us Oh sorry This is Vel's character
34:28
first is saying maybe they weren't on to us That's right They're trying to figure out how do they know we were there
34:33
That's really cool that they announced us to the audience They're like maybe they're just there because there's stuff there that they want to
34:40
guard or they found another hideout They found another place to get together And
34:46
again they're not stating the obvious before we predicted it They're thinking rationally which makes this more
34:52
compelling to watch Yeah And then this is where Daeniro's character says "No no no Assume they got our phones Assume
34:57
they got heat Like no they're on to us It wasn't by chance that they were there They were waiting for us They got our
35:03
phones Assume they got our houses Assume they got us right here right now as we sit Everything Assume it all Now we're
35:10
going to buy the bank package from Kel I'll front that That's not a problem What the hell happens to Vanzan 750
35:16
Vanzant Listen with the heat we got you want to play World War II in the streets with Vanzant I love that line My 750
35:21
when he gets a pass I got more motivation to whack Vanzant than either of you is a [ __ ] luxury Our problem
35:27
is take the bank or split right now Do not go So the question is now do we take
35:32
the bank or do we split and just cut our losses And then they go into the whole discussion of who's going to stay who's going to go and they'll give their
35:38
reasons They all decide yeah we're all in We're all in Okay And what's the
35:43
other scene you want to talk about before we close the diner There's I think you brought up a I'm glad you brought up that initial failed heist
35:50
scene cuz I did have some family members
36:00
basically that he has pledged his loyalty I will be your will man I will be the getaway driver There is no not
36:06
doing this He's going to be on the score one way or another Speaking of Treyjo we find out later that he figures that he
36:11
is being followed that he is being tracked and he's I can't come meet you at the diner the very diner where Oh
36:17
what's the actor's name Wing Gro you're talking about Kevin Gage's character No Oh yes Dennis Hayesburg Yeah Yes Okay
36:23
Treyjo's character knows that he's being tracked He's been spotted He's being trailed So he calls Dairo's character at
36:30
the diner saying "Look man I can't come back and meet you guys They're going to follow me to you cuz we're they're in
36:35
the run They're in the wind." So he knows he's got a tail on him So Daener's character yeah don't come back Just go
36:40
go do what you got to do Don't bring the heat back to us But it's just very fertuitous that in that same diner is
36:47
somebody they spent time the in jail with is played by Dennis Hayes's character which is a very tragic
36:53
character arc Yes Cuz he seems like a you can tell that Hayesbur's character
37:00
and he's on parole or whatever it is He's got the job He's being of course I would say abused physically but he's
37:06
being taken advantage of by the boss They take 20% back of what I make that
37:11
it that's extortion Yeah that's right Yeah that's right You don't give me money from your wages I'm going to tell
37:17
them you took drugs in the kitchen You go back and because I guess you could say he has a ankle bracelet or something Either way he's on parole And I did have
37:26
to explain to others because I had seen it before is oh that that woman of his is his partner She's not his parole officer Oh people thought people thought
37:33
that that woman she's just doing what any good partner does which makes sure you get to work on time and don't get in trouble with the law But oh yeah I never
37:40
considered that would be the pole officer but I guess maybe somebody could see that But he has one of the best Breeden definitely has one of the best I
37:46
freaking quit scenes And it's they cut out some other scenes where he's at home
37:51
I think on the TV edit which is a shame because that does rob the character of his moment of I'm between a rock and a
37:58
hard place and then some Yeah It's just tragic cuz you know that he's done his time in prison and he wants to get back
38:05
into society but at the same time the where he goes to get rehabilitated or to get integrated back into society he's
38:11
mistreated It just shows you how important it is dear listeners that if you're in these positions of authority
38:16
and to help people that he would have gone back Let's pretend the job that he's at was honest pay honest work He's
38:23
being treated fairly and kindly And Dairo's character comes and says "Hey you want to drive for us you want to
38:29
make a big score he would have probably turned it down As a man who's been abused in many unprofessional work
38:35
industries it takes guts but it also takes your integrity And if your integrity is robbed and HR is doing
38:42
their usual unhelpful self that's where you just have to say "I quit." There will be no twoe notice In this case he
38:48
does exactly that No twoe notice Did you push down your boss down your boss I did not do that I
38:55
don't assume that's not me But no that's not me It is interesting how
39:01
he's doing exactly what all the other guys there So you can assume that the boss has been doing that to all the
39:07
staff It's not just him I also do blame the parole officer Of course Surely they
39:12
could have done a background check I I get that this is pre- internet but surely they could have asked around Is this a good place to work I would argue
39:18
sorry to step away there I would argue that the pro officer is in on the cut This is where he's getting that's a good
39:25
theory I like that That makes better sense because the guy did act like he knew the pearl officer like I've been
39:30
doing this a while Yeah it's all part of the So the pro officer takes the criminals here and it's like he's
39:37
probably gets 10% of the 20% Man that makes better sense So he's
39:43
splitting it with the parole guy to look the other way Yeah that's right And then he just calls the pole officer and says
39:48
"Oh he took drugs." And he's like "Yep he did." And they're in it together And this is proof that this is a good movie cuz we're analyzing all this other stuff
39:54
This isn't just stupid theories that no one will agree on We are analyzing all this other implications that this movie
40:00
introduces They better agree with us solely or they can just turn off their radios right now
40:07
10 four All right Here's the scene now of Dairo telling him "Hey come work for me." Yeah
40:15
man Sure Cool I mean now you know I'm cool
40:21
You know I'm cool See he goes "Yeah man Yeah you're on
40:27
You're off." Love it But I love how Dairo's character waits There's a silence there You heard folks of him
40:33
waiting for the answer But that was the time Dennis Hayes's character would have said "No man I I I can't." But the fact
40:40
he's running through his mind right now I don't like where I am right now They both have a code nil He's got 10 minutes
40:46
maybe 20 flat before he's either do everything himself or find another
40:51
willman But at the same time he doesn't want to push him He's not going to be held liable for I forced you to do this
40:58
threaten you to do this It's like are you in I'm hearing it I'm listening to
41:03
you but I still need a yes Yeah No it's a great scene And if I get a no then you know what Nice talking but I got split
41:10
also No it's a great scene Great acting by Dennis And now we're going back a little bit Of course storyline but
41:16
that's fine What I thought was the big moment that Sullie had in this 34 minutes but for him it's the least least
41:21
important moment in the whole It's a good scene It's a good scene It's okay We have the two juggernauts Now I
41:26
forgotten how the scene play or how it was introduced is that Albuccino's character they do have his car marked
41:33
Diro's character's car I told that too He had his by squad spot him and then
41:38
give him a copter and then get in a car so he could Yeah They literally chased him down with a helicopter Then they
41:43
jumped into a car and then I wonder what the insurance is on that car Yeah sure For the vice squad using it or let's
41:49
pick and pulls him over and just says "Hey let's get a cup of coffee." And he's okay I mean what choices he have
41:54
He's not arresting him Said "Let's just go talk Let's go talk to a public place No shooting no murder." So I totally
42:00
forgot that they did cut to Neil looking for a gun getting it out of his glove box just in case this went south Just in
42:06
case Yeah How would that add word to this You know what He doesn't want to draw any more attention to himself but
42:11
he might have to if he needs to He could have He almost could have done it He could have smoked Pacino's character on
42:18
the side of the road there There was no cameras on him There's no cop cams on him If there was a time he could have
42:23
done it Dumped the car and be going the lamb again And it could have happened It
42:29
could have happened but they didn't We got the scene instead Yep So they're at the diner Coffee Coffee sounds nice
42:34
Coffee sounds good And here we go with some of the some of the dialogue I I just stopped in the middle of the scene I'm not sure where we are here Let's
42:40
just see where what they're talking about here McNeel is tough as they say Okay So he's
42:46
asking about jail This jail is tough as they say Where he was at Now he says
42:52
here "You're looking to become a pentolog." Oh pen penologist Yeah Okay
42:58
That's somebody who studies jails or I presume penal Is that right study of crime and punishment So
43:04
correctional facility studies But I never even knew there was one But that's just it Like that that goes so fast You
43:10
do have time to glaze over this Oh that's why you said that And here and there and introduced it that way But
43:16
yeah I don't recall a lot of this criminal record stuff So I don't know if a lot of it's just cut for time or
43:23
memory failing me but it is a wonderful way Oh there's lots going on Don't beat yourself up Sully There's a lot going on
43:28
in this film Don't be silly Okay So yeah he goes it's a funny line that Darly looking to study prison management
43:35
rehabilitation the treatment of offenders That's what that means Looking to go back I chase down some cruise guys
43:41
just looking to [ __ ] up get busted back So Pacino is saying there I chase crews of people who just that's a real thing
43:48
that does happen in the world is that people will commit crimes as just to go back to jail Mhm Yeah Cuz they get three
43:55
square a day and a roof over their head and it's almost like the system they know And of course Daener's character is
44:00
nah that ain't me I am never going back How do you rank this performance of Daeneros because this is so different
44:06
from the gentle but brutal giant that you get in Deer Hunter
44:13
And it's not sticking out and in his own little loopy world like Taxi Driver But
44:19
it's also not way different than the Scorsesei ones we've been accustomed to where he just looks on and then gives a
44:27
very delicate speech here at the start of this playing chicken a bit with Pacino's Vincent and saying okay and go
44:35
on and what do you want me to say to this and then slowly he says a few other
44:40
magic words Okay I can totally relate to what you're saying you you actually are seeming pretty cool especially that you
44:46
bought me coffee But now I know what to say to this Now I have my retort and I have my definitive answer This has been
44:52
a nice chat But it is file just seeing at first how he tilts his head a little differently And I really don't think
44:58
he's playing to the camera I really do think legit he is trying to give the character a little nuance with Oh yeah
45:05
this is the most unusual day I've been stopped by cops I'm pretty sure you can tell but I've never been asked for a cup
45:11
of coffee to hear this story I think he admires his profiling I really do He's
45:16
No one's ever asked me about where I was facilitated What Yeah I think Pacino's
45:21
character is trying to find a little bit of humanity and common ground just by saying "Look I'm the law and you're a
45:28
criminal but at the same time like trying to understand him because he's saying I chase people down who just want
45:34
to go back to jail or and he says "Is that you Are you looking to get caught Are you looking When they were made he
45:40
was already grinning They both had [ __ ] grins that someone would be ballsy enough to stump him and then take
45:47
his photos so that all his crew can recognize them and John Void's contact
45:52
can do some profiling on him There's no personal stake He knows wife and his
45:58
daughter will be safe He He's not worried about that I never got a sense of that It's more of a you're good I
46:04
gotta know why you're good and then give you one last warning because brother you
46:10
are going down Yeah brother you're going down to ask your question at the beginning there Yeah I think he's doing
46:16
a great job with this role I think Dairo was my favorite Daener was like late 80s or mid 90s up to here of his acting cuz
46:23
it's just he's the most mature how should I say this He's in his 50s 45 to
46:29
55 I think it's that peak male look and acting They've been doing it for a long time They're doing it so well at this
46:35
point in their careers He's had more diversity but at the same time he is what you look for in stoicness mixed in
46:42
with atypical lifestyle When you see him in other unusual roles like we're no
46:48
angels and even Ronin you're just like he can validate everybody's
46:53
improper position in life instead of just do another thug role This is his kind of poetry He loves this kind of
47:00
humanizing the ugly side of mankind And I love Dairo's looks the way he does the
47:06
side looks the side glances I never noticed the eyes before I'm just so busy
47:11
just paying attention to the suit and his different advice how he makes his quick get to it lines for his crew You
47:19
you feel like he's an actual teacher or in this case ex-Marine I told me one
47:25
time don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out
47:31
on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around a corner Now I've forgotten
47:36
that he says that quote twice He says that Deval's character earlier in the film he says it again about the mentor
47:41
who says "You can't get too attached You got to be willing to bail at 30 seconds fly to feel the heat." And I also forgot
47:47
how often they mentioned the word heat in this film It is said like 20 times I thought it was just this scene and one
47:53
other scene and it's said a lot It's 20 times It's like heat Where's the heat Who's got the heat Don't bring the heat I don't want the heat You want the heat
48:00
It gets a little bit redundant I think they should have kept it two times Were you familiar with the terminology Because I I was reminded of it
48:06
especially when video games Grand Theft Auto and right it is said a
48:13
lot It's not just good screenwriting because you don't want to title a movie with an unrelated title That's just bad
48:19
But it is also they're just reiterating this is how we have introduced how the
48:24
characters talk We're going to keep having them talk this way And I don't know if his character is based on Eddie
48:32
Bunker's lifestyle I think it was more V Kilmer's character has a bit of that I know John Voit was designed to look like
48:40
Eddie himself the character who he drew inspiration on for Thief Yeah He just
48:46
reiterates again I don't get attached You're getting attached to me right now And this is nothing personal I'm not
48:52
asking for police to come after me I know you guys are going to do your job I also am going to keep doing what I do
48:59
for a living Oh yeah Absolutely I guess this is the part of the conversation where they're both going to be at an
49:04
impass Their characters are going to be like "If we face each other we're going to face each other." So then if you spot
49:10
me coming around that corner you're just going to walk out on this woman
49:17
not say goodbye That's the discipline
49:22
That's the discipline So Al's character is basically saying you're going to step out on a woman And Pacino's character is
49:28
like I'm on my third marriage but you're going to do that to that poor woman And that's the discipline But it's interesting how his discipline is oh now
49:36
that you brought me to this knowledge here Sully So Dairo's character is look when push comes to shove I got to drop
49:42
my relationship at the door and leave because the heat's coming around the corner The flip side is Pacino's
49:48
character has dropped his relationship at the door because of the crimes that
49:53
these people commit So they both have lost their relationships He's not a great husband and they're both not great
49:59
because they both love their job so much that they sacrifice their own personal
50:05
relationships in their own weird way One is on the right side of the law so to speak The other one's on the wrong side of the law But both have sacrificed
50:12
relationships because of their jobs Both thought he was going to just have a one night stand and then it got even serious
50:18
I'm not opposed to you coming along with me but you will have to be a fugitive much like me Yeah that's right You
50:24
mentioned the failed heist We never see the details that there's so many other scenes in this damn movie where you
50:30
never see what they're arguing about because it's irrelevant but you get the gist of it We never knew what Al's
50:36
daughter was arguing about It's just teenage girl stuff But right it's a problem It's not being properly
50:41
addressed It's a recurring issue clearly And same thing with the cops that we see
50:48
them going "We never met a heist like this What are we missing What are we missing We we've busted so many robbers
50:53
Why is this one different?" And it doesn't matter why they're not getting it right but they're still allowing
50:58
these different voices to organically interject in the room instead of feeling overridden over saturated with all these
51:07
different voices Enough time Enough time to do what you want to do
51:14
That's right You're doing it now No not yet We're
51:19
sitting here Here we go You and I are like a couple of regular fellas You do
51:25
what you do I do what I got to do And now that we've been face to face
51:33
If I'm there and I got to put you away I won't like it
51:38
But I'll tell you if it's between you and some poor
51:45
bastard whose wife you're going to turn into a widow brother
51:50
you are going down So there's there's Pacino's part Now I
51:56
love how the writer of course Michael Man of the film he wrote the film and directed it Of course he's has to give
52:02
both characters equal amount of dialogue in the scene I think Al might have a little bit more dialogue cuz the
52:08
character of Robert's a little bit more stoic like you said a little bit more quieter But I love how Al does his first
52:14
part Just so you know I won't like it I'm not going to enjoy putting you down But if you're gonna put down an in
52:21
civilian and your heist or whatever you're going down I'm not going to enjoy it because I I respect you and I as a
52:27
person respect your service even all that stuff in the military whatever it might be but I'm not going to let you
52:34
hurt anybody in the process Like a good law enforcement person would say this right I love how now Michael Mans Okay
52:39
now Robert your turn So here's Robert's rebuttal to that His character's rebuttal to L's
52:47
There's a flip side to that coin What if you do got me boxed in Then I
52:54
got to put you down We've been face to face yet but I will not hesitate Not for a second
53:04
Maybe that's the way it'll be Or who knows maybe we'll never see each
53:12
other again [Music] At least you said it to my face as
53:17
opposed to BS me Yeah yeah yeah that sounds good I'll I'll think twice We're both blatantly honest So yeah the mutual
53:23
respect is reinforced Did you ever look up that Patino's
53:29
character was inspired by a real life detective from Chicago No Chuck Adamson
53:34
has been the technical adviser for most of Michael Mann's initial run He had a bit part in Thief He played a crate oper
53:41
and then created crime story for Michael man and then wrote for some of Miami
53:47
Vice This was one of his final roles as a technical adviser But he went after an actual Neil Macaulay in the 60s and much
53:56
like this movie He it came to a close and got the guy in a shootout But there was a if not a mutual respect there was
54:03
a this guy is good Oh wow He knows how to pick locks and he had us worked
54:08
countless nights just assembling a task force But like Patino he was a real life sergeant detective who operated from 58
54:15
to 1974 Oh wow Well I didn't know that Look at you Thanks for you brought a lot of
54:21
background knowledge on Michael Why didn't they say based on a true story
54:27
based on true personalities or things that could happen or have happened Yeah Yeah that's
54:33
good Michael Matt we talked about with thief of course and he does try to add as much realism into his films He's like
54:39
Christopher Nolan before Christopher Nolan I think that way where he tries to add that realism into his films especially again the thief the breaking
54:45
entering stuff the cop side of life the criminal side of life He's really good at just showing both sides of the coin
54:50
regarding that How appropriate inspired Nolan to do homages to Michael man's
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kind of atmosphere and shootouts So yeah I don't know if this is official Maybe in your own personal research it seems
55:03
like you've done a lot more than I have regarding these directors Did Christopher Nolan talk about his was he
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influenced by man Oh yeah he did a Q&A with the stars and man in recent years
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but Oh yeah He did say in other interviews is I do die hard I do like heat I do like these kinds of different
55:20
Sure Yeah But because I know that the aesthetics if you look at Batman of course the trilogy that Nolan did that was his big thing that he really stuck
55:26
to as much as you can Still there's not realism but he really wanted everything to be grounded is probably a better word
55:31
Make it look like a Chicago type city and right just and then even the the abilities of Batman were grounded and
Sully’s Upcoming True Crime Podcast
55:38
things like that Yeah Anyways Sullie absolutely fantastic for you to come on and join me for part three I appreciate
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you answering the call so willingly and yes Yeah it is a pleasure You love films
55:51
You're very enthusiastic and I know on your show you guys talk about so much again so many different topics and you
55:57
guys have fun and that's the important thing when it comes to these podcasts oy that's what I always say just have fun
56:03
if you don't have fun then I don't know what you're doing get better with sound mixing find better topics that you look
56:09
forward to doing the research and presenting a narrative we will be go doing a true crime and history podcast
56:17
very soon oh wow but we'll be mainly exploring wild west legend as well as entertainment scandals that are lesser
56:23
talked about because I I love true crime and I love history podcasts but there's a gazillion ones on already on Charles
56:30
Mans There's a lot there's a lot of true crime Yeah you can find just about anyone on Richard Nixon or what have you
56:35
You want to go a little deeper So here's a producer bad apple who ruined a bunch of careers by his heavy-handedness
56:42
Here's Oh but you also want to have some uplifting ones And so I found my share of those But okay that's also the
56:49
problem with something like this You don't want to announce it too soon because it's gonna take even more research It's going to take even more
56:55
time before you can sit down record and upload it Bless your heart With all the research you do are all these topics
57:02
going to be on the Jacked Up Review Show or is it going to be under a different banner That'll be a separate one And a
57:07
separate a separate show Yes Oh wow Promise Do you have a title yet Are you tinkering with any title I guess the
57:13
title we have agreed on as of this moment is Excuse me No it's fine Big announcement
57:20
Five puzzling questions So five puzzling questions Yep You're going to present
57:25
these questions during the Yep the the typical who what when where and why But
57:31
we also are going to avoid being snarky We're going to avoid just clickbait articles We're going to just try and
57:36
illustrate why is it a puzzle Why is it shocking Oh your five puzzing questions will be
57:42
different every episode We're going to illustrate why it is a puzzle to begin with Oh okay boy Because
57:49
unfortunately with many of these cases you won't be able to answer half of the who what or when where and why And so
57:56
we're going to just try and so why even ask If you can't answer why ask We're just going to just hit into the This is
58:02
why it will always be a mystery as well as this is why this is taking up different folklore and urban myths But
58:09
geez man you are insane The the the
58:14
I thought I covered a lot of different stuff Boy you've got me beat I'll tell you that Okay for now people can catch
58:20
you on the Jacked Up Review Show I'm telling you folks just go Google Jacked Up Review Show at the very least Listen
58:27
to the intro song It'll get you going Thank you so much Sully for coming on I'll have your your show's link in the
58:32
show notes And thanks so much for coming on And stay tuned folks for part four
58:37
where my lovely co-host Katie will be on for part four It's going to be interesting seeing the finale is like
58:44
someone who does not care for it but can hopefully they're mature enough to justify This is why I don't care for it
58:50
They're not they're not mature enough I'll tell you Okay perfect
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