Now more than ever, choosing to actively participate in your own life is essential to thriving in a world that constantly demands your attention.
In This Episode...
Clark Crosby joins Brandon in the Think in Cursive podcast for a wide-ranging, honest conversation about what it means to "participate" in life. Clark first talks about the idea of him being the "rabbit" instead of the "turtle" which eventually leads into a bigger conversation about participation: getting off the sidelines, creating instead of consuming, spending time with people, and being intentional about how we use our attention.
The discussion moves into real estate and lending, where Clark shares what he's learned from working in mortgages for the past two decades, what people don't see behind a real estate transaction, and why experience and relationships can make such a difference when a deal gets complicated. Clark also talks about the current Atlanta housing market and mortgage rates.
Clark also opens up about losing his grandmothers, wrestling with faith and atheism, finding a deeper sense of connection, and how he actively seeks to participate actively in many aspects of his life such as in work, family, community, and his country.
Key Takeaways
Be an active participant in life. Stop rotting in front of the TV and waiting for life to happen. Actively engage in your relationships, business, profession, community, and that things that matter to you.
You can always reinvent yourself. Part of Clark's story is that he has not threaded a straight, steady path to success. He went through some rough times, especially during his teenage years. He tried many things, including managing a tattoo shop, getting into music, moving to different locations, and working in the corporate world. His willingness to reinvent himself and experiment has opened doors to new opportunities.
You can't control every outcome. Real estate, as with other industries, is full of moving parts, unexpected problems, and emotional reactions. Often, the best thing you can do is to stay calm and do your part, while letting the rest unfold.
Define success in your own terms. Be a famous band member and sing for a huge crowd? Or build a business that allows you to work from home with your family? Success means different things to different people. Define what success means for you and pursue it.
Don’t let fear run your life. Fear often keeps people from starting something new, but taking the first uncomfortable step can create clarity along the way.
This Week’s Guest Bio: Clark Crosby
Clark Crosby is a mortgage broker and loan officer with Success Mortgage Partners. His job is mostly about helping homebuyers and real estate agents figure out the ins and outs of getting a mortgage. Originally from Florida, Clark eventually made his way to Georgia, where he now lives with his wife and kids. He first entered the mortgage industry in 2007 and has spent years working through the many changes in real estate, lending, and the broader housing market. Outside of mortgages, Clark is a husband, father, musician, and someone deeply interested in personal growth, faith, creativity, and living an intentional and engaged life. In this conversation, Clark brings the perspective of a guy who has tried different paths, changed his mind, taken some wrong turns, but kept moving.
Mentions
Guest: Clark Crosby Book: The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry Cultural References: Fight Club, The Tortoise and the Hare Financial Institutions: Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac, Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC), Dodd-Frank People: Kevin Warsh, Jerome Powell, Siamese Dream, Peter Gabriel, Wim Hof, Meister Eckhart, Bob Goff, Brian Johnson Music: Smashing Pumpkins, Siamese Dream
Keywords real estate, mortgage, intentional living, meaningful life, reinventing yourself, entrepreneurship, how to let go of control, hustle culture, slowing down, phone addiction, eliminating hurry, music, relationships, fatherhood, creativity, play
Brandon Leonard is an Atlanta realtor, entrepreneur, musician, husband, father, and founder of Lifters of Men, a nonprofit dedicated to strengthening families and communities. After earning a degree in finance and beginning his career in accounting and commercial development, Brandon found himself at a crossroads when the 2008 recession changed everything. Rather than following a conventional career path, he took a leap into music, eventually performing more than 400 live shows with his band. Those years on the road taught him something that no classroom could: how to connect with people, listen to their stories, and meet them where they are. Eventually, Brandon found his way to real estate. He went on to sell more than 150 new homes early in his career and has since helped hundreds of families buy, sell, and invest in the Greater Atlanta area. Along the way, he’s renovated homes, worked with private investors, and built deep expertise in everything from new construction and first-time buyers to luxury properties and real estate investing. But what makes Brandon’s story interesting isn’t the number of homes he’s sold. It’s the questions that came along the way. After years of building, achieving, working, and chasing the next thing, Brandon became increasingly curious about what makes a life meaningful beyond the usual measures of success. What happens when our careers are no longer the center of our identity? Why do we lose some of the curiosity and playfulness we had when we were younger? And what can we learn from the people around us if we’re willing to slow down and really listen? Those questions are what led to Think in Cursive. This podcast is Brandon’s way of creating space for honest and interesting conversations about play, work, identity, family, creativity, connection, and the messy, winding process of figuring out what a good life actually looks like. At its heart, Think in Cursive is an extension of the way Brandon has come to see life: the most interesting stories are rarely written in a straight line.
Guest
Clark Crosby
Clark Crosby is a mortgage broker and loan officer with Success Mortgage Partners. His job is mostly about helping homebuyers and real estate agents figure out the ins and outs of getting a mortgage. Originally from Florida, Clark eventually made his way to Georgia, where he now lives with his wife and kids. He first entered the mortgage industry in 2007 and has spent years working through the many changes in real estate, lending, and the broader housing market. Outside of mortgages, Clark is a husband, father, musician, and someone deeply interested in personal growth, faith, creativity, and living an intentional and engaged life. In this conversation, Clark brings the perspective of a guy who has tried different paths, changed his mind, taken some wrong turns, but kept moving.
What is Think in Cursive?
Most people stopped playing the moment life got serious. That was their first mistake.
Think in Cursive is a podcast about reclaiming play as a way of thinking — and discovering what becomes possible when you do. Host Brandon Leonard sits down with entrepreneurs, athletes, creatives, and everyday people who are quietly winning by doing things their own way.
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;26;19
Unknown
I'm going to think in cursive today. I've got Clark Crosby here, buddy of mine. I'm so excited to catch up, man. We're just going to. Thanks, brother. We're just going to chat. We're going to chase the White Rabbit or whatever. Yeah, yeah. How are you today? I'm doing great, man. It's funny you said that. I always tell people I am the rabbit, you know, everybody hears that story about the rabbit in the turtle or the turtle in the hare, and nobody ever figures out what or remembers what happened to the rabbit after the race, right?
00;00;26;19 - 00;00;45;04
Unknown
Yeah. Nobody ever thinks about that. Yeah, we were talking about running earlier, and I think about that a lot with my life and everything. And it's like I'm the rabbit. It's like everybody's focused on the turtle. We all heard that story growing up, right? So it's like you're getting tired over and over again. Who's talking about the rabbit, though?
00;00;45;04 - 00;01;06;06
Unknown
What's happening with the rabbit? Right. He has to go home and he's gotta formulate a plan, right? Like, what's going to what's going to happen next? But it's so funny with everything, with life today, how technology's affecting our life, how so much stuff happens so fast. Right? We still talk about the turtle, and I think it's because it's relevant, obviously.
00;01;06;09 - 00;01;23;01
Unknown
But at the same time, it's I just think it's interesting you started out saying that, and that's that story that we always hear, and you always hear people talking about the turtle. But what about the rabbit? You know what I mean? But the rabbit's reinventing himself over and over again. Something trying. Right. We got to try something new.
00;01;23;01 - 00;01;40;11
Unknown
Try something new. Right. We got to just keep trying. That's the thing. It's always, always about keeping, trying, involving other people in that, you know what I mean? Collaborating. And that's what we're doing today I love it I love all of this. This looks great, man. You're doing a great job. Appreciate the opportunity. Happy to be here that this is cool.
00;01;40;11 - 00;01;59;20
Unknown
Yeah. This is a really an experiment. But I'm not afraid to do experiments anymore. Like you talked about. You know, playing music. Yeah. Going and booking bands and or booking shows and putting shows together. And all of those were experiments to trying to sell t shirts, CDs, write music, sing, learn new instruments, change careers, change careers again.
00;01;59;20 - 00;02;16;06
Unknown
I changed my major like six times. I ran out of hope hours. And how you how young were we doing when we were doing that? Young. You know what I mean? Like, think about it. You're in your late teens, early 20s, just like I did it all the way through the 30s to. Yeah, right. Pretending to be a corporate guy.
00;02;16;06 - 00;02;36;00
Unknown
Then going all into music whenever, finding an opportunity and then having to pivot and go back into corporate and constantly change in hats. And now that I'm, self-employed, I'm really just trying to, like, not wear any hats. Yeah, and it messes up my hair. You get that? Great. But I'm, you know, I think I'm in good company there.
00;02;36;02 - 00;03;05;03
Unknown
That. Yeah, man, it's all about wearing all those hats. And I think we get hung up as human beings, as Americans, as fathers, as husbands, as wives. Whatever it is, whatever job you have nowadays, it's more than one job. Everybody, you know, we're content. What are we doing right now? We're literally creating content. Everybody wears multiple hats today, and I think that's what's the future is that's what the future holds, is, multiple responsibilities.
00;03;05;03 - 00;03;25;22
Unknown
You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think that the success in the future will be for the people that are up to task for that. We were talking a little bit before we started recording about participating in whatever you like to do, basically zoning out and watching TV all day. That's that's a thing of the past.
00;03;25;22 - 00;03;44;13
Unknown
I don't know what the future looks like for people that want to do that still, but I'm not going to be there, you know what I mean? I know that one thing that's not going to be what I'm doing. I'm going to participate in life, whether that's my kids, right, whether that's my business, whether it's my personal interests that I'm interested in.
00;03;44;13 - 00;04;06;24
Unknown
Right. Like everything's not about everybody else all the time. I get a little bit of me time, right? And you have to be fully engaged and intentional for that stuff nowadays. And I think it's only going to increase in the future. And I think that's what we have to get are fellow again, fellow Americans, fellow citizens, fellow fathers, fellow mothers, our neighbors.
00;04;06;26 - 00;04;27;10
Unknown
We've got to get everybody or try to at least on the same page about being a participant in their own life. We got to tend to our own gardens right around here, the people around us. I think it's great when people have, missions and things they support abroad. Yeah, but I really love it when, you know, we do that for our neighbors.
00;04;27;10 - 00;04;46;00
Unknown
Yeah, it's what it's all about. Until our own. We grow up hearing that our whole life. Yeah, we heard it in church. Or if you played sports, your coach was talking about it. If you had a decent or a good teacher. They were talking about it, maybe. And we always have that cynical attitude about it. It's the too cool for school attitude, right?
00;04;46;00 - 00;04;59;17
Unknown
It's like, nah man, I'm going to sit in the back. I'm going to I'm going to sit in the back of the bus. I'm going to sit in the back of the classroom. Hey, Bob Goff has this awesome quote, says, I've never met a courageous cynic. Yeah. Because it's a constant temptation to write to to not become cynical.
00;04;59;18 - 00;05;20;22
Unknown
Yeah. Or not to be cynical. It's the man in the arena, man. That's what it is. It's all about, again, participating, being an active participant, we talk about music. We were talking about music earlier. There's you can go find on Instagram right now, let's say you're into some obscure music or like let's say you like traditional country music.
00;05;20;22 - 00;05;49;01
Unknown
Like not like country music that they were playing on the radio in the 90s. Like you're a real traditional country music. I like some 90s country to everybody. Right? But I'm talking about that old school kind of what some people may think is boring, kind of slow paced country music. Yeah. You can go find 1022 to 25 year olds right now on Instagram, probably doing that, ranging from people with 100 followers to people with 10,000, 20,000 followers.
00;05;49;08 - 00;06;12;24
Unknown
And they're knocking it out of the park right now, you know what I mean? So it's like we're in this new landscape of it's a complex landscape, but there's just so much out there and people get discouraged by that, I think, because, again, we've been lulled to sleep over the past 40, 50 years by commercial, you know, just everything being fed to us.
00;06;12;24 - 00;06;32;17
Unknown
Yeah. And now I think the new thing is going to be to get up, get off our butts and participate. And it's going to be fun for the people that want to take part. There's so much information, so much data everywhere. It's like firehose everywhere, right? So yeah, and there's no wisdom. Kind of like music even with everything available.
00;06;32;19 - 00;06;57;21
Unknown
You know what I mean? Every time I try to sit down and play electric, I'm trying. I start tweaking. Yeah. The effects and look. And I got one of those, you know, big, Yeah. Yeah. I don't even know what it's called. Oh, my God, I need I need to practice more. And I'm just tweaking and same thing whenever I open up, studio GarageBand or something, and, I just get lost in the technology and I get away from the actual creation.
00;06;57;21 - 00;07;23;28
Unknown
Yeah. And, I know I talked about this with Russ, about this binary relationship with creation and consumption. You know, you can't be creating and consuming at the same time. Kind of like you can't be fearful and playful at the same time. You know, you got to be in a headspace to be able to play and, especially so, yeah, you know, you're in the real estate space, you're into lending, for the work stuff.
00;07;23;28 - 00;07;45;09
Unknown
Yeah. And this seems like it's been pretty dang challenging, the last couple years. At least, you know, I see it in the real estate space. Yeah. And just being a dad, and you get mouths to feed and, you know, husband. And how do you stay play for how do you blow steam off and, stay upbeat and keep showing up and all that good stuff?
00;07;45;09 - 00;08;01;22
Unknown
Yeah. No, no, real estate's great. It's like music. It's a great, you know, lots of people talk about it, you know? And so it's something that a lot of people observe, they have since the beginning of time. It's kind of obscure to some people. Some some people talk about it like they know what they're talking about.
00;08;02;07 - 00;08;24;18
Unknown
But it's tough to really meet somebody that's an expert that you can trust. So, yeah, it's a great thing. I love it because it's so crazy, real estate's nuts. You even kind of alluded to it. An old school kind of way of thinking in real estate is that real estate agents and mortgage professionals kind of almost operate in two separate spaces, which we don't, you know what I mean?
00;08;24;23 - 00;08;50;29
Unknown
And I did this job pre global financial crisis, you know, straight out of college in 2006. And going from back then to now, doing it in multiple states, going from a call center to being a boots on the ground guy that's going shoulder to shoulder with real estate agents into these transactions, you can see how much it's changed and how much it's evolved to the same thing that we were just talking about with, like just music and society.
00;08;51;01 - 00;09;15;03
Unknown
It's now participatory, I guess, if that's a word, you know what I mean? Like everybody's got to be involved. So the way to to do it is to go back to what you said. You can't play if you're not relaxed. You know what I mean? If you're not having a good time. So basically, what I've done post-Covid since rates started going up a little bit, you know what I mean?
00;09;15;05 - 00;09;36;28
Unknown
It's just really gotten into a the science of what makes our business tick to really see how things work, which most mortgage people, if you asked, you know, 95% of mortgage folks what even makes up mortgage rates? They wouldn't even be able to tell you. Ask them what you know. The fed meeting was yesterday, the big Kevin Warsh guy, you know, he took over for Jerome Powell.
00;09;36;28 - 00;10;01;19
Unknown
That's in the news right now as 95% of mortgage folks what the FOMC even stands for. You know what I mean. We're going to this new place in everything. But most of all things like real estate, that impact so much of our economy into this space where somebody like you, which I love about you, which I've loved since it's one of the reasons I called you were doing this because I cold called you.
00;10;01;19 - 00;10;36;19
Unknown
Right? Right is because you're one of these outlier agents that you really holistically understand the business from. So many different positions. Right? I appreciate that, and it's so cool to see on a like a spectator. As a spectator, it's cool to see. But you can also appreciate it because you know how much work goes into it, man. Like there's so much stuff developing real estate, doing flips, like taking a piece of real estate that's not in a great spot and making it great and having a family come and make that their house, you know what I mean?
00;10;36;19 - 00;10;55;19
Unknown
Like, that's the stuff where you kind of start to get, like, tingles on your arms, you know what I mean? Because it's families helping families, man. It's not some business transaction. Yes. We make a little bit of money off of it, but at the same time, it's you. It's this regenerative agriculture of our business. You know what I mean?
00;10;55;19 - 00;11;15;23
Unknown
You're putting quality into it in return, you get quality out of it. Basically, ever since, things have gotten hard, you look, first of all, half the business gets out of the business, right? So like half the agents even half of our side of the business gets out of the business during these times. So you can see it's kind of like that spot when you have a, tsunami.
00;11;15;23 - 00;11;35;10
Unknown
Right? If you've ever seen the videos on the internet before a tsunami hits the beach, draws back, right? The water, like, gets drawn back like 100, 200ft. You can see all the fish flapping around because they're usually not exposed. Right. That's what we're going through in real estate right now. Yeah. You can see everything and everybody. You know, some people don't like that.
00;11;35;10 - 00;11;52;05
Unknown
You know what I mean? So what I try to do is just focus on the non-negotiables. That's an easy thing to do in real estate. Lots of experienced professionals know that if you talk to a certain number of people each day and have real estate conversations, you can kind of dumb it down to that. It's all about that intention, you know what I mean?
00;11;52;05 - 00;12;12;12
Unknown
That's really where it comes from, is what you're trying to accomplish and where your intentionality is and where you're where what you're trying to put into the world, put into those transactions, put into those homes that you're by and remodel lane, make it perfect for that family to come by and live there for 25 years. You know what I mean?
00;12;12;16 - 00;12;29;01
Unknown
Hopefully they need to refi a couple times and I can get a couple deals out of it, but you know what I mean. That's not what it's about. At the end of the day, those are the kind of the benefits that come off of what you're doing with that intentionality. Yeah, I always thought you're just kind of incentivized to be a good person.
00;12;29;01 - 00;12;48;24
Unknown
Yeah. To be stay connected with people. I do remember early on when, you know, when I first left, the homebuilder joined the general real estate and I didn't know what I was doing at all. And I remember my, old, community sales partner at the builder. I was like, I'm thinking about going into general. And she's like, oh, don't go into general.
00;12;48;24 - 00;13;09;23
Unknown
It's it's really hard. And like, so like, I think that it's right now we're in a, I think we're finally kind of on the back end of it, which is a good thing. I think we're right on the precipice with Kevin Warsh, the new fed chair, coming in. Kind of everybody thinks he's a Trump guy not to get political.
00;13;10;17 - 00;13;40;19
Unknown
I don't think he's I my personal opinion. I think he's the first kind of a, the new guard coming in. Finally, we have this problem in our country with these politicians and federal employees hanging around. Yeah, for way too long. And Kevin Warsh, again, people think he's a Trump guy. I think because he came in with Trump and Trump was put the spotlight on who was going to take over Jerome Powell spot last year.
00;13;40;19 - 00;13;59;28
Unknown
And I think it's mainly based on that. Kevin Warsh was a I think he's a Stanford graduate, like in the early 90s with Marc Andreessen and Peter Thiel. He's like heavy on AI. When he was at his position with the Peter Thiel crew. Yeah, yeah. So which is weird at the same time because it's like, what's all this AI stuff going to what's going to happen?
00;14;00;02 - 00;14;35;14
Unknown
Have you heard it sounds like you're pretty up to date on this. I think I saw an article yesterday. Yeah, about AI, open AI. Yeah. And the the runaway attacks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That breaking out or whatever? Yeah, yeah. It's really it's really interesting and I know that's again. So that's a great point. I think Kevin Warsh knows or at least he's finally we have somebody up at the steering the ship that knows that our society is about to be impacted on a level that none of us can really understand at this point and how that ends up washing out.
00;14;35;15 - 00;14;55;11
Unknown
You know, hopefully it's good for us. I don't know. But, at the same time, I'm just happy we they seem to be because they're not. Again, people think he's locking step with Trump, but it's not. They're very heavy on AI. They think it's going to be deflationary. You know hopefully this war situation will chill out in Iran.
00;14;55;11 - 00;15;19;22
Unknown
Obviously we don't want wars being fought anywhere for any reason. We don't want kids and women and civilians or even soldiers. We don't want people dying for, you know, useless wars anymore. We're past that. And as a society, as an American society, as a global society, I think a lot of us are on that same page now. So I think that over the next three, six months, I think that's going to come to an end.
00;15;19;25 - 00;15;47;18
Unknown
And, you know, you know, again, you're a great agent. I don't know anything in February, in February, March, we were teed up to have a heck of a purchase season. Finally, man, we were finally going to kick this thing off. We were in the fives and then this war popped off, you know what I mean? So as soon as this chills out a little bit and really gets to a solution, which I think is going to happen by the end of the year, we're going to have time and kind of just the energy of being away from Covid take over.
00;15;47;20 - 00;16;13;23
Unknown
We're going to get back into the fives and 5.75 not to get boring and technical, but 5.75 is the true kind of median rate that that's the psychological point where people will chill out a little bit and get back out into the market. That's also the rate where FOMC, the Federal Open Market Committee is not they're not being you know, advantageous or they're not being restriction air restriction restrictive.
00;16;13;23 - 00;16;31;22
Unknown
Excuse me. So that's kind of that middle ground where we need to get back to where I think we're going to have a ton of transactions come out of just being. And again, the difference in payment for people is maybe, you know, on most mortgages is maybe 30, maybe 50, maybe $75 a month at the most, you know what I mean?
00;16;31;22 - 00;16;52;02
Unknown
But just something psychological breaking under that 6% rate does something for people since you're in people's numbers all the time, right? I would have to infer from what I see that a lot of people are carrying much more debt than they used to. Oh yeah, and that it seems like the younger kids, you know, kids younger than me are coming up, you know, and they're screwed.
00;16;52;02 - 00;17;11;14
Unknown
They have it seems like there's so many people, they don't have any fundamentals of just basic stewardship, basic finance. And I saw like the majority of those Coachella tickets were sold with I'll pay you back later services. Yeah. That's huge. That's huge. Right now the buy the what's it called? They call it they buy now. Pay later now pay later.
00;17;11;14 - 00;17;26;21
Unknown
That's what it is. Yeah. Luckily I'm not very I'm not doing mortgages. You don't get that deep into buy now pay later. So I didn't know that off the top of my head. But you just kind of mortgage it. You know it is, right? Actually, I'm just doing a higher dimensional version of it and think I'm being snobby about it.
00;17;26;23 - 00;17;42;23
Unknown
I hate that line, but, but yeah. No, you're right, man. Like, that's why I feel so bad. And but again, it's compartmentalize. I mean, last night I was talking to do a new pre-approval. It's like a 24 year old software developer that's from LA that just moved here. You know what I mean? And that's the great thing of I love that.
00;17;42;23 - 00;18;09;28
Unknown
I think our market's positioned like in being you know our market the Atlanta market is positioned to come out swinging. Yeah. I think you know put us up against LA New York Chicago, places like that. I mean it's just the flexibility of our market, the versatility of our market and the impact that you can make on somebody's life to grow their family's net worth and how quickly they can do it.
00;18;09;29 - 00;18;29;27
Unknown
Sure. And again, back to that flexibility of it. It's just amazing here. Go to New York and try to close the transaction in two weeks. You can't you literally can go to California and try to do it. They don't do it. We have people are moving away from those places. Exactly that. Georgia's still growing. Probably not quite as fast as Texas, but but we but you know what's great about us compared to Texas.
00;18;29;27 - 00;18;46;23
Unknown
Go to Texas. Go to places like Austin. You see the values dropping off of a cliff. It's the same thing in Florida. And that's the thing that a lot of people do, especially in the media, is they'll do these catch alls, right. It's like the southeast is really taking a hit on values and it's like, oh, really will come to come to Atlanta.
00;18;46;28 - 00;19;06;08
Unknown
And there are some places, some spots in Atlanta that have had some value, you know, some some price. The prices aren't growing as quickly as they have, but there's a ton of places where, you know, that tale of two markets thing is a reality right now where, you know, we made an offer on a house a couple of weeks ago and there was like ten offers on it, you know what I mean?
00;19;06;08 - 00;19;36;29
Unknown
And I'm talking to the listing agent on a Saturday morning at 10 a.m. like, it's Covid, you know? And that's what's cool about this, you know what I mean? The good old days of real estate people. So glad that I got to ride that way. And it's it was so insane. I remember because we are that's a new thing, the boots on the ground mortgage person that's calling people on the weekend that I'm proactively calling you as a listing agent, and I, during Covid, as a listing agent, you don't want to necessarily talk to a mortgage person.
00;19;36;29 - 00;19;59;12
Unknown
You want to talk to the agents to see who's got like, where are we at with the offers? Who's got the highest offer? So I have to trick you into thinking, you know, to into calling me back for some reason. Well, I always did call I before I review offers. I always speak with the agent. Yeah, yeah. Make sure you know docs are full, you know, credits pulled, and, they've got cash to withstand a short appraisal.
00;19;59;12 - 00;20;21;12
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. And that's a great. That's you being a great agent. It's so interesting how many different versions of our job you can get on any given day, right. Yeah. And 2021, things were so gangbuster. Right? Were on the street, had gotten out that, hey, people were buying houses and there was bidding wars. And the investors were also bidding things up.
00;20;21;12 - 00;20;37;02
Unknown
Yeah, it was absolutely chaos. But my father in law challenged me to read the Bible in a year. And get together once a week for an hour, which to my father in law is three hours. That's awesome. We did that. So we did that. How did you feel when he said that? I was like, oh, I should probably do that.
00;20;37;04 - 00;20;55;14
Unknown
I was like, but work is going gangbusters. I make it a lot of money. Did y'all have a good, decent relationship before he said that to you? Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. And I respected his I mean, the guy hasn't missed quiet time with the Lord and like 40 years. Yeah. Like daily. Yeah. And it's usually a few hours I mean, and he's Old Testament scholar.
00;20;55;14 - 00;21;20;26
Unknown
He's a converted Jew, like messianic Jew. And. Yeah, he loves, sharing his knowledge of the word. And he's been a great mentor from that perspective of consistency. And, you know, I should probably tell him more, but yeah, but I said, yes, I showed up. And one thing that I learned about reading the Bible and trying to cram it all into one year is most days, I wouldn't feel like I got much out of it.
00;21;20;26 - 00;21;38;20
Unknown
Yeah. You know, but then there might be one word that just, like, was echoing something and then stirring something inside of me. Yeah. And then I had some kind of epiphany. Yeah. And then I realized, like, that one word might be more important than all the other words in this moment right here, right now. And it's all circumstantial.
00;21;38;20 - 00;22;01;17
Unknown
I guess that's, you know, why they they say the living word. But by me making time for God in my life that year, my income tripled. I mean tripled, right. And, I heard the story. I don't remember where I heard this story of, like, okay, so this grandpa has this grandkid over, and they go and they ride on the tractor and they cut the grass.
00;22;01;19 - 00;22;20;12
Unknown
Yeah. And, the kid is being held. He's sitting on his grandpa's like, yeah. And, the grandma says to the parents, hey, you know, we need we need some to come back, you know, soon and help us cut the grass. We need him. And, something happens and he's not able to come back. That time in the kid is really freaking out because he's like, I gotta help them cut the grass.
00;22;20;12 - 00;22;43;16
Unknown
Yeah, and we think that we're driving the tractor. Yeah. And life. Yeah. You know, and so when I turned, when I turned 40, I was like, I'm going to try to let go more. Yeah. Kind of like the fight club scene. Yeah. Letting go. Yeah. Well, you know that book, the Ruthless Elimination of Hurry? That book was a catalyst to this.
00;22;43;18 - 00;23;09;03
Unknown
I could I could use to read that book. Well, I can let you borrow that copy if you want, man. I'll. I'll give it to you. Yeah, it was transformative for me. And, I mean, it was a whole lot of little things that added up to a big mental shift. Yeah. And getting out of this hustle culture and the nonstop notifications and nonstop external stressors, if nothing else comes of this podcast, my phone is off.
00;23;09;04 - 00;23;36;26
Unknown
Yeah. And I'm talking to somebody in person that's, you know, I mean, not only ever like, industry, you know, professionals, but like, we're people. Yeah. We're not on the other end of the phone and something. Yeah. Like I said, I just have this feeling something special is going to come out of it. Yeah, yeah. And you bet you're also doing and it's not again, to go back to being what I was saying earlier about being a participant in it, you're not sitting on the couch saying, man, I wish something would happen if I was for a while.
00;23;36;27 - 00;23;56;27
Unknown
I had to think about it. I was like, do I really want to do this? You know? And, because when I thought about doing the podcast, I thought about having people, smart people over to have an intimate, personal conversation. You know, I'm not a, touring comedian. I'm not a touring frontman or anything like, you know, I'm a real estate guy.
00;23;56;27 - 00;24;21;28
Unknown
I deal with people in small settings most of the time I'm very comfortable in that space. But having just open, free conversations where they can go wherever. Yeah, with, you know, leaders and creatives and all kinds of people. Yeah, it's a little intimidating for me to. Yeah. And I don't get intimidated very easily. And when I feel that little fear stirred in me, I'm like, ooh, maybe this is something that I should lean into.
00;24;21;28 - 00;24;53;15
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's great. I got a great I was doing breathwork one morning and it was a couple of years ago. I had this really big. My grandma's both died within like 3 or 4 months or six months of each other in 2022. And I was, you know, I was about to be 40. And it was kind of like this really transitionary period for me where I had a lot of, I don't know what you would call it, man, I hate to say like, I finally, you know, achieve this enlightenment of like, becoming an official adult, which is crazy to say at 40, you know what I mean?
00;24;53;17 - 00;25;09;20
Unknown
Coming out of owning tattoo shops and I own, you know, I own tattoo shops for a while. I've done mortgages for a long time. And I hit this point with both my grandma's passed away. I was very close with. Both of them come from this kind of gray in you. You're from the same place to the south.
00;25;09;20 - 00;25;40;09
Unknown
Is like, you know, everybody talks about men all the time. Like, dude, we just. The foundation of the South was built by all these wonderful women, man. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if it was the same for your family, but a lot. It was a lot. A lot of me and my friends. Yeah. There was a couple of dudes in the family, you know, varying degree levels of craziness with the dudes, and then just a ton of women, like, I had aunts and my grandmas and my mom, and it was just everybody.
00;25;40;09 - 00;25;58;03
Unknown
It was so fantastic, man. And just that's where that love and that energy came from. I was doing this, doing a lot of spiritual stuff, had a couple experiences with one of my grandmothers that was, you know, that has crossed over to the other side where, I was able to communicate with her on the on a small level, at least.
00;25;58;06 - 00;26;20;29
Unknown
You know, to me, that's that's the way I took what was happening. And so what do you mean? Yeah. So we do the, the kind of like, spiritual journeys that folks do now based in plant medicine. So I had an experience with one of those things where my grandmother, a couple months after she passed away, I got to kind of interact and communicate with her on a small level, like ayahuasca.
00;26;21;15 - 00;26;39;00
Unknown
Not ayahuasca, but, you know, just your old school. The old school. Normal. Okay. Kind of mushroom trip. Okay. So I don't, you know, I don't, I don't I didn't have the resources to go down the Costa Rica or something and pay her a $5,000 trip, you know what I mean? So. And I'm from northeast Florida.
00;26;39;00 - 00;26;58;12
Unknown
I grew up, I'm a sober person, and I did, you know, ten years last. Last week, actually. No shit. Yeah, man. So ten years? No, it's just no booze, no cigarets. It's like it's it's crazy. You know what I mean? Like, it's a it's a it's a crazy feeling when you get to that place. But I just went old school, though, because like I said, I grew up in Florida and Jacksonville.
00;26;58;13 - 00;27;14;21
Unknown
We, you know, we learn about drugs really quickly where I'm from. And so, it was kind of we were doing hard drugs before we were in high school. Most of us, you know what I mean? So I just went the old school route, closed my, and I live it. I've got a great basement because I live in Atlanta now, you know, closed out the basement.
00;27;14;21 - 00;27;37;01
Unknown
My wife and my kids were upstairs sleeping, you know what I mean? And I, you know, I went to town, and had this great experience. And it's so different when you're, when you're a, you know, when you're approach that at a, at a from an older position and being older and being sober and not doing anything else, you know, you're not hanging out with your friends and at a party or something like that.
00;27;37;24 - 00;27;56;11
Unknown
So anyway, so I did that and had that experience and it was fantastic. It was crazy and stressful and I don't recommend it. I'm not a medical professional, so don't take advice from me. But if you were trying to say or like, see your grandma, was I trying to time or I didn't even have that intention? Man, that's a great question.
00;27;56;11 - 00;28;18;19
Unknown
It's a fantastic question, dude. Because, no, I didn't even have any of that intention. Actually, she passed away before. Like, I was already kind of on that journey. And then she passed away, you know what I mean? So it was like it was it was a separate thing. And it was really interesting. How that came about with that experience was because it wasn't it wasn't her and me.
00;28;18;19 - 00;28;37;23
Unknown
My grandmother was a wonderful, you know, she was like the the Christian matriarch of our family. Both of them were, you know what I mean? They were both very, very devout Christian women, and went to church every Sunday. Most of the, you know, my, my mom's mom went to church every Sunday. Wednesday she ran the daycare at the, you know, the church that I was baptized in.
00;28;37;23 - 00;28;51;24
Unknown
And then my mom and dad got married, and you know what I mean? So very deep founded. But it was also kind of like some Southern Baptist stuff, you know what I mean? So you get a little, you know, it's a little bit different feeling. You know, there's this like, I think he's like a 15th century, like, Christian mystic.
00;28;51;24 - 00;29;16;28
Unknown
His name is Meister Eckhart. He's got this quote that I think it's whatever talk of God that doesn't make you feel love is a lie or something like that. And I always think about that quote when I think about my experience growing up in a Southern Baptist church, you know what I mean? Because it gets a little, you know, it'll make you some of that stuff's a little I think it might just be that it's super heavy for a young kid or young brains can't really take all that information in.
00;29;17;02 - 00;29;37;12
Unknown
What do you mean? Like, comprehend the scripture? Yeah. And just all of the Bible and some of the this your basic negative feedback that you hear about people's experiences and churches, you know, growing up and stuff like. Yeah. So it's interesting. That's what I mean. It's interesting that she came because I would have I wouldn't have been thinking about her when I was eating five grams of mushrooms, basically what I'm trying to say, you know what I mean?
00;29;37;12 - 00;30;01;07
Unknown
Like, I'm not thinking about Granny Barbara. That's that's her name right there. I'm not thinking about Barbara when I'm eating five grams of mushrooms, but she's the one that came, you know what I mean? And it was it was amazing. And it was. I had spent so many years from the age of, you know, 14, you know, 15 years old when I really started getting heavy into stuff, chasing that feeling again.
00;30;01;07 - 00;30;23;28
Unknown
And it was so interesting how it came back around and it really finally it like unlocks something in me, man. It was like it was like, everything is going to be okay. And it really helped me deal with my struggles that I had with atheism and really like post, you know, teenage years, being an atheist. And then, you know, and some people can deal with that and some people are happy being atheist.
00;30;23;28 - 00;30;47;13
Unknown
And that just wasn't my speed, man. It wasn't the it wasn't the channel I was supposed to be tuned into. And it it is for other people, I'm sure. So good for them. I'm happy for you do your thing. But for me, it didn't work and that was the problem. Like a lot for a long time, there's not having that access to that higher dimensional version of love that we all need, and that's all it is.
00;30;47;13 - 00;31;07;26
Unknown
It's just a higher dimensional version of it. And I don't know how to explain that, but it's like it's like looking at something through eyes that aren't ours and being able to experience it from this unity place, this place of unity. And almost like we are all sitting in this same room right now, we're just different versions of the same thing.
00;31;07;26 - 00;31;24;13
Unknown
We're doing this together. And not to hippie out too much, because I don't know necessarily that we are, you know, you hear that we're all different expressions of God or whatever, but I think that we don't have to know and we don't have to figure it out. Kind of like that book over there. You were talking about the the hurry thing.
00;31;24;13 - 00;31;43;03
Unknown
Some of that anxiety that comes from the same place, whether it's feeling hurried or just feeling like you don't know what's going to happen next or you don't know the reason we're here, it's all fear. Exactly. Right. Yeah. So you've got to have a plug in to something that's bigger than yourself. Or at least I do. A lot of people do.
00;31;43;05 - 00;32;00;16
Unknown
And, take the cynical attitude and kick it down the road. Man, I don't care. You're not. You're not too cool for school, man. Like that's what I had to get to my earlier. You said that, you know, it was hard as a kid to, you know, or maybe it wasn't you, you know, hard for the kids to digest some of the scripture.
00;32;00;18 - 00;32;24;23
Unknown
Well, I'm 42, and it's hard for me to digest most of the scripture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, one of the things talking about fear and, and anxiety, it was one of my favorite verses in the Bible is Proverbs 28 one. Yeah, the wicked flee, though no one pursues, but the righteous are as bold as a lion. Yeah, yeah, that's like the most gangster stuff I've ever heard.
00;32;24;23 - 00;32;45;27
Unknown
Yeah, I want to be fearless. Yeah. And that's a part of, you know, make a space for this. Like. Yeah, I never thought I'd be reaching out. I never thought I'd be excited to reach out to all these people that I've lost touch with. Or maybe you ever have that feeling when too much time has gone by and you feel like ashamed, so you don't call it so you just keep kicking the can down the road.
00;32;45;27 - 00;33;04;21
Unknown
What everybody in our business is going through on a daily basis is what you just said, because it's something it's not 90% of the time. It's not that person. Oh, me and them had a horrible blowout and I can't ever call that person again. But there's just a little bit of friction that and you're a little tired, maybe a little bit beat down by the day or whatever it may be.
00;33;04;21 - 00;33;19;10
Unknown
Everything is so circumstantial. But no, that thing, the breathwork thing I was going to say is I came out of this breathwork session. Breathwork is really awesome for short extended periods I think. Like you can do it for a couple months and get a lot out of it, but then it kind of chills out. So this is like meditating.
00;33;19;10 - 00;33;36;26
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, meditation sitting. Yeah. And some people don't know we're talking about Christianity and Bible verses and stuff. Some people don't like to conflate those two. But either way, again, I was just kind of we both work out a lot too, and we're very active in our bodies. So I was just kind of doing it and trying it out with Wim Hof, you know, the Wim Hof guy.
00;33;37;00 - 00;33;55;27
Unknown
Yeah. I never tried any of the that breath, the Ice man, that's it got me into it. Right. I was doing a lot of cold plunging anyway. So I come out of this breathwork plunge this morning and there you go. I come out of an breathwork session, and it's just like your head's kind of all over the place, and it's it's hard to explain.
00;33;56;00 - 00;34;14;01
Unknown
I don't know, it's like scuba diving and coming out of the water. It's crazy. It's kind of weird. So. But I hear this voice in my head and I'm going to try to get it right, so it's impactful. It was the road less traveled. It is the harder one to follow. But what most people don't know is that eventually it starts to show you the way.
00;34;14;03 - 00;34;35;22
Unknown
And what I mean by that is that that fear that we were talking about that keeps people at bay, that keeps people on the couch so they don't go down the road and they don't build the podcast studio. Even they don't know what necessarily it's going to turn into. You know what I mean? Eventually it starts to show us the way.
00;34;35;25 - 00;34;53;03
Unknown
And and we know that because we've been, you know, varying degrees of success and yeah, kind of like we've got a little something going on. We tricked some women into marrying us and have kids with us, and we own homes in this great, you know, suburb of Atlanta. And it's like, so we've got a little bit going on.
00;34;53;03 - 00;35;20;29
Unknown
We got a long road to go, man, trust me. But that's the fun part about it too. Like that's the good news. Yeah. Good news right. Like that's what it is is we're here. We've got the strength for the struggle in the faith, for the fight man. And we've just got to put it out there and let other people know and be those you know, the lighthouse for people and whether or not it's a go, there's a ghost in the lighthouse, and we just have to take over that spirit.
00;35;20;29 - 00;35;39;20
Unknown
And that spirit's going to be there long after we're we're gone, right? Yeah. Even if that Brian Johnson dudes. Right. And we all start living to like 150 years old, man. We can't we're not going to be around forever, no matter what. You know what I mean? So it's it's a survival. It's I always tell people this and this is not my line.
00;35;39;26 - 00;36;02;00
Unknown
It's a famous internet guy. So don't get mad at me for stealing somebody's line. But this business, real estate, entrepreneurial ship, whatever you want to call it, is the sacrifice of the fittest. It's not the survival of the fittest. A majority of people get into the business thinking and entrepreneurship in general, thinking. It's going to be a survival of the fittest thing.
00;36;02;00 - 00;36;19;10
Unknown
They think it's going to be a sport, you know what I mean? And it's not. It's completely different, man. It's completely different. You know, I'm I grew up playing traditional sports. I don't know, I know we talked about jujitsu and stuff that's a little bit different because it's an individual thing. But same principles still apply. I ran cross country.
00;36;19;11 - 00;36;36;01
Unknown
I said, yeah, that's what it was, I remember. Yeah, yeah, but you're still on a team and you did that in high school. So you understand that team aspect. And people think that's why I think a lot of sales. And you see this in real estate offices. And it definitely happens in mortgage offices and in any sales job really.
00;36;36;01 - 00;36;52;17
Unknown
You've got the people that will stay in front of the pack, you know what I mean? And you've got everybody else, you know what I mean? And they think that when they get into these jobs, into be a real estate agent, go to a real estate office, what's going on in a real estate office? Yeah, nothing. Most of the time.
00;36;52;17 - 00;37;07;13
Unknown
You know what I mean? Because the people. And that's what I love about you, man. There's people like you, and you're you're a different version of it because you do so much. You know what I mean? You do that like having the ability and the wherewithal to do the flips and do all that stuff. You're like a heightened version of it.
00;37;07;16 - 00;37;33;00
Unknown
But let's just take your average successful real estate agent at any office in the city right now. They're doing their own thing, and then you've got the other people, and these are the people we have to help man in every aspect of life, not just work in life to man with parenting, with, you know, how to raise your kids, how to be physical and how to be have a healthy life with your own body and inside your own skin and emotionally.
00;37;33;00 - 00;37;56;22
Unknown
Everything. Dude, we've got because people are struggling, man. And I think because of where and how I grew up, I'm a little bit more heightened my awareness is heightened. And yours. Yeah. I mean, shoot, man, being from Albany, I know, I know, like South Georgia's not South Georgia northeast where I'm from, Jacksonville, you're from the South Georgia like it's like that area of the country is such a unique place, man.
00;37;56;22 - 00;38;24;24
Unknown
Just think of the football talent that's encompassed within that little circle. And before Atlanta football, baseball I mean just ungodly or no godly talent. And it's just they don't a lot of people in those spaces because we're not in New York. We're not California. It's not Atlanta. You know what I mean? It's not Miami. We've got to now get those people to understand that they have to participate in their own lives, man.
00;38;24;24 - 00;38;46;15
Unknown
And again, if we have to sacrifice something from ourselves, it's about the bigger picture. It's about everybody. It's not just about us. It's not just about our family. It's not just about our kids. That's why I love coaching kids. I love coaching basketball. I'm about to start coaching baseball. My four year old, you know what I mean? And, and my dad coached me, and he tried his best.
00;38;46;15 - 00;39;03;11
Unknown
He did a great job. You know, there was a couple. He was one of those dads. He was a baseball dad. I was, you know, he's a big guy hitting ground balls at me as a ten year old as hard as he could. And that was a little weird sometimes. But at the same time, like, we're still together today and we can still both talk about that stuff.
00;39;03;11 - 00;39;20;12
Unknown
And now I'm going to be a better version of that for my kids. Like take this and pass it on. You know, it's a relay race. And again, where that go, we have to take over that spirit in the lighthouse and be the stewards like you were talking about and show people, whether we're talking about work or it's not work.
00;39;20;12 - 00;39;40;08
Unknown
Well, that's cool that you're coaching. I think that just kids, kids need a little bit more, you know, fatherly or paternal engagement coaching. I mean, I had more probably impact in my life. In some aspects from my coaches during certain formative years than I did from, you know, father figures. Heck yeah. But yeah, it's as, as cool it's cool that you're coaching.
00;39;40;08 - 00;40;00;09
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. I've never coached. It's funny, I never played basketball. I never played baseball. I played like peewee football. I wrestled, did cross-country. That's why you're successful. That's why you're the agent you are. You want me to tell you? You want to break down your personality profile? Sure. It's because you did. That's what I'm saying. So, like a guy like me and most people, which is super interesting about you, is one of the things I love.
00;40;00;15 - 00;40;15;00
Unknown
And that's why I told you, even when we were first conversation we were having about being in a band and stuff, and I was like, nah, dude, you're that accountant. That's that's your real that accountant energy. And I know you don't like it. Don't get me wrong, that's for me. But that's what keeps you in the middle, dude.
00;40;15;00 - 00;40;35;21
Unknown
And that's what people that grow up playing regular team sports. Yeah, you know, those. It's just. And I'm this guy, I am him. That's what I was talking about, being the rabbit at the beginning when we first turned on. That's me, man. I'm not the turtle. I'm never going to become the turtle. What I had to I can't, I couldn't.
00;40;35;21 - 00;41;01;13
Unknown
If you paid me $10 million a year, you couldn't make me become the turtle. So knowing that, I have to then say, okay, I can't be mad at you being the turtle because I was for a long time. Not you, obviously, but just my friends that I would see and not your normal friends. Everybody's got their normal friends that go to college and get a good job, and they're doing the thing.
00;41;01;13 - 00;41;19;25
Unknown
But I'm talking about somebody doing something cool, like you've always like, there's those characters your whole life. So I've got a buddy like you that I was looking at when I was 18, and it's like, you can't be mad at the turtle man. The turtle is going to be the turtle. That's the that's the thing that's most successful, especially in real estate.
00;41;20;02 - 00;41;40;07
Unknown
There's a lot of guys like you all over the country. I mean, that'll be really good at managing themselves and making sure they hit their non-negotiables on a daily basis. And the biggest thing is they don't let the emotional baggage that comes with this job throw them off kilter. Man like that is like, I can't do it, dude.
00;41;40;08 - 00;41;56;15
Unknown
I'm like, I'm bad. Like I told you earlier, I was raised by a big group of women, man. Like, I'm ready to rock. I'm going to. Somebody tells me I didn't do a good job. Or even if somebody like, even kind of mentions the possibility of not even me not doing a good job, but just something messing up.
00;41;56;15 - 00;42;18;24
Unknown
It's like, and there's 88 pieces of information per borrower on the 1003, you know, a mortgage application. And so it's like you got to organize that through 3 to 4 weeks of space and time with 22 separate, 20 separate third parties touching the transaction. And it's like, and you know how it is, you talk to an agent and tell them, hey, man, I don't or excuse me, ness or man, it's not going to.
00;42;18;24 - 00;42;42;00
Unknown
You know, we might have to push a day. I don't want to do that. Nobody wants to do that. But you can't let that throw you off kilter. So the cool thing is, is that nowadays, with all the technology is that we have, we can understand everything. Again, you just have to participate in it and become a part of it in order to manage that better.
00;42;42;00 - 00;43;07;01
Unknown
That idea of playing, you know, sitting on your grandpa's lap, driving the tractor, thinking that we're driving the tractor. Yeah. You know, and just, just kind of letting go of this idea that I'm controlling everything. Yeah. And you can't, you can't. And we're probably actually impacting a lot less than we think that we are, you know? So, yeah, it's been kind of an experiment to kind of let go, especially as markets are shifting.
00;43;07;01 - 00;43;26;17
Unknown
And, you know, you said you had a bidding war, you know, just a couple weeks ago or something. I thought I was going to have a bidding war on this last flipped. And it really looked like it. Even through all the showing activity and the comments and conversations, I didn't. Yeah, I got one offer. Yeah. And I was holding the line at that offer.
00;43;26;19 - 00;43;44;13
Unknown
They came in 25 under or list or whatever. And I was like, we're in a bidding. Anyway. I thought we were. Yeah. We weren't. Yeah, yeah. And, I'm so glad it worked out. Yeah. But yeah, we were able to close and all that stuff. But just thinking, you know, this is either going to work out super beautifully and smooth.
00;43;44;13 - 00;44;04;07
Unknown
Yeah. Or it's not. And there's no you know who have you can add a single hour to your life by worrying. Exactly. Yeah exactly. And it's not. You have those transactions. I had one that closed last month that it closed. It's been a while close to the beginning of June, but it was one of these that I get a call on the last day, the financing contingency.
00;44;04;10 - 00;44;27;07
Unknown
And it's from another broker. He just told everybody he couldn't do the deal. But this woman is self-employed. She's got one year, a 1099. She sells courses on TikTok. She's killing it. So that all sounds good and well. And it's like, okay, we probably can work with that. But then the real story comes out is that our 81 year old mother just got a divorce.
00;44;27;09 - 00;44;59;06
Unknown
And this house that they're under contract on in Lawrenceville is a ranch. And we know the ranch problem that we have and Atlanta and the Georgia market as a whole. And I'm not talking about Hidden Valley. I'm talking about single family detached ranch properties. One stories they needed this house because she didn't have anywhere else to go, the house that she lived in currently, the daughter who was a who was I was I was working with was a two story and it was she'd lived there for 20 years, so it wasn't going to work out.
00;44;59;06 - 00;45;22;28
Unknown
She had to have this house, and it's one of those things and walk us through the boring details of it. But everybody was on edge for three weeks in that transaction. She, even though my client was super upset the day before closing because I'll tell some I know this job so well now that I'll preemptively kind of try to manage their expectations on something that might be asked for, right?
00;45;23;00 - 00;45;39;12
Unknown
Especially in one of these situations where you know, you've been in it before, where the guy keeps asking you for stuff, right? Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I try to get in front of that. And some people have the opposite. Some people will be like, no, don't keep it. If you have to ask for them, just you'll just have to ask when it happens.
00;45;39;12 - 00;45;55;15
Unknown
But don't say it if it's because it might not happen. And I'm like, dude, there's like a 75% chance we're going to have to ask for this. I'm going to go ahead and give them a heads up. So the day before closing, I have this long text about, hey, this is the last day. If we don't have CTC today, we can't close tomorrow.
00;45;55;18 - 00;46;15;14
Unknown
We're done. I have to back out of this. I got my mom and apartment. I appreciate your help. You know, I can't believe this. They're super mad at the underwriter and everybody else being kind of polite to me still, but just not happy. I am saving this transaction. You know what I mean? I came into it a month late.
00;46;15;15 - 00;46;33;18
Unknown
It was under contract for a month before. It was like a 45 day close. So a month it might have been. That is at least three and a half weeks. It took this guy to find out he couldn't do the deal. And I looked him up and he was actually a pretty good broker. He's got a ton of reviews, probably in his 50s in the market for a long time here, knew what he was doing.
00;46;33;18 - 00;46;52;04
Unknown
It was just something that all the financing post qualified mortgage in 2010, in our in our business because of Dodd-Frank, it's all the same. 90% of the people do the exact same thing. That's why you guys get inundated with phone calls, and all they want is 800 credit scores and 20% down. That's all they want. But what were you talking about earlier?
00;46;52;12 - 00;47;10;20
Unknown
Participating. Right. Like, there's so many tools out there now. So everybody's a broker. And I love my the company I work for because we have an internal team where I can go to and say, hey, I need to close this now. Do we have any option? Give me a Hail Mary or give me a hey, no, this can for sure happen with this place.
00;47;10;20 - 00;47;28;04
Unknown
It's just going to take three weeks. And, and we got it closed. But she was super upset and I was talking to her yesterday. I was down in the doing some squats down in the, They're doing some deadlifts down in the basement, and, I get a text. I mean, I got my headphones on. I'm listening to Siamese Dream, which is a great album.
00;47;28;23 - 00;47;46;22
Unknown
Smashing Pumpkins, nobody's ever. So I'm listening to Siamese Dream, and I get a text from her, and she asked me a question about, she had a pipe burst because something they were doing down the street, and she's asking me for the HOA contact info, which I'm like, you know, okay, I'm glad, but I'm glad you reached out to me.
00;47;46;22 - 00;48;06;14
Unknown
Most mortgage guys wouldn't have even answered the talk to her because it's like 630, 7:00 at night and she's asking about HOA stuff, but she sends me this long text of just like I can't, I'm so happy. I love my house so much. Thank you so much. You know what I mean? And she said that after we closed two in a in a more condensed version, but she really let me have it this time.
00;48;06;14 - 00;48;23;07
Unknown
I'm sitting down there doing deadlifts in my basement East calm. My kids are above me. I can hear their feet kind of hitting the ground because they're watching TV before they go to bed, because that's the 30 minutes that their mom lets them get some screen time during the day. And I'm like, man, this is like, this is perfect, man.
00;48;23;07 - 00;48;50;17
Unknown
I'm literally in heaven, dude. Like, this is like, if you were to ask me when I was 15, if I was sober, you know, when I wasn't high, like, hey, man, what do you, what do you want to do? And I would have told you, be a coach or something like that and have, you know, play professional basketball in Ireland or Italy or Slovenia or something like that, or be, you know, something with music, obviously, but really, in my heart, man, it would have been this man.
00;48;50;17 - 00;49;10;21
Unknown
It would have been just something sustainable that we can do on our own that we don't necessarily we have to plug in to these kind of different third parties and stuff sometimes, but it comes through us, man. So it's almost like, I know you were a singer, so like, would you have rather been like a Peter Gabriel figure?
00;49;10;21 - 00;49;25;17
Unknown
I'm trying to think of like, cool, like 80s frontmen or like lead singers instead of, like these modern dudes. You know what I mean? Like, Peter Gabriel is awesome, you know what I mean? The album. So it was fantastic. But, would you have rather been one of those dudes, or would you rather do what you're doing right now?
00;49;25;17 - 00;49;53;20
Unknown
I mean, like, seriously, I, I mean, I love playing music, I love playing with the guys and having, that magical experience. But I don't want to be gone. Yeah, I want to be gone for my family. This is. This is perfect. I don't have to be successful or be externally validated. If I can provide for my family and do life on my terms, be home with my kids, see them grow, teach them, love on them, play with them.
00;49;53;20 - 00;50;16;19
Unknown
It's stressful as hell, but at the same time, we get the benefits of the kids too. And I wouldn't get that if I was a truck driver, a touring musician, a pilot. Appreciate those of you that do all of that, but for me, I had to prioritize my family life, and that's honestly why I got out of new home sales in general is because they work every single weekend, because that's what a cure for that company did.
00;50;16;19 - 00;50;30;12
Unknown
You probably oh, I did, you were. No, I know you killed it, but you would have went up the ladder, man. They would have. You would have been VP or something already. You stayed. So you're right. Yeah. Well who knows man, that is a it was a very toxic culture, but, and I couldn't have stayed in it any longer.
00;50;30;12 - 00;50;59;28
Unknown
But at the same time, I'm so glad I went through it. And I learned that I can thrive in a hard, toxic environment, you know, and I can switch roles and pivot and excel and different roles, even despite, you know, a crazy toxic environment or whatever. So as I'm slowly creating my own environment. Yeah. And yeah, right in the rules, making space for other people to to have legitimate conversation like form legitimate present relationships.
00;50;59;28 - 00;51;20;17
Unknown
Yeah. It's funny earlier you're talking about, people zoning out, watching TV. I'm thinking every single time our TV is on, like we're on our phones, you know, like, this is the real TV. Yeah. And things like sauna, jujitsu, skateboarding, this podcast. My phone's off. I have to do something like that sometimes just to be able to get the frickin phone to stop dinging.
00;51;20;17 - 00;51;43;05
Unknown
Yeah, ever since I got a license, you know, salespeople are nonstop. But then there's actual work. That's. Yeah, very involved. And, you know, I just had a listing go live, and, so I'm getting a lot of inquiries and everything, and that's dude, I can't imagine, like, I was working with the, agent of mine that's down in the city, and she does a lot of interesting properties and like, rentals and sales, rentals and stuff like that, and actually leases properties.
00;51;43;07 - 00;52;10;26
Unknown
And she was she puts me in on some of her emails for some of the properties. And you guys just like that's one thing we get try people try to call us to sell us software and stuff like that, or some lead generation program, which I know you guys get that too. But then this whole other thing that we don't deal with on the mortgage side that you guys deal with on the real estate side is getting inundated with people trying to scam, trying to be weird, not even trying to scam on your new listing.
00;52;11;00 - 00;52;27;07
Unknown
Maybe it's just a crazy person that wants a great deal. They have the time to write up an offer and send you over an offer on the first day of listing. That's $100,000 short. There's always one of those. It's like, that's insane. And that's what people don't understand when they get into this business. Is that because I own tattoo shops?
00;52;27;07 - 00;52;43;24
Unknown
People get in the business and they think it's like basketball. When your kids play basketball, you buy your kids a pair of shoes and take them to practice. That's all you got to do, right? That's you. If they got a pair of shoes already, you don't even got to buy them shoes, right? Real estate's more like baseball, where with baseball, you've got to buy.
00;52;43;24 - 00;53;11;14
Unknown
I'm about to start coaching, right. And we got to buy, like, at least $250 worth of equipment to show up. And it's that. To go back to the tattoo shop analogy, you're running a whole business. You're not just putting signs up in front of houses, you're not just going to closing. You actually have to do everything. Like if you went and think of like in the 90s, went to, you know, started a pizza shop and you had to get a lease and like, that's, you know what I'm saying?
00;53;11;14 - 00;53;39;03
Unknown
Like, you've got to manage everything and people don't understand that and at all. And you see them get gobbled up by this business. But it's really tough. It's a lot of balls to have up in the air and a lot of people, again, we have to help people through it because you have to help people through it. You'll get a transaction that listing, you'll get an offer from an agent who's done two transactions before and their whole life and that and maybe their loan officer is there.
00;53;39;03 - 00;54;04;29
Unknown
Maybe they're using some internet lender that's based out in New York, and it's like you're kind of in it by yourself. And I don't know if you actually have a seller if you're the seller on this transaction, but if you have a seller, you have to manage them too. It's just really tough. You know what I mean? And you've got to have the tenacity to get into there and to not be afraid and to wait for the direction from your environment because, you know, environments going to give you the direction, right, is funny.
00;54;04;29 - 00;54;22;21
Unknown
You're talking about personality profiles earlier in the turtle in the hair, and I'm so used to giving people information and then letting them process one of my secret weapons or, or secret talents, I guess, is just being able to keep my cool when somebody is just running their mouth and blowing steam off. And may I just wait until they get tired?
00;54;22;24 - 00;54;41;03
Unknown
And then I, well, are we going to do the deal? And I'm like, yeah, what do you know that that was the story of like one of my first flips. And anyway, but just being able to let people have their reaction, let them have space, love them where they are. Don't take it personal. Yeah. And then see if you can keep things moving forward.
00;54;41;04 - 00;55;04;26
Unknown
If there's an agent that's done two deals and there's a bidding war, that agent is not winning unless she's working with me. Well, yeah. And the Holy Spirit. Because, you know, because I'll tell her what to do. That's the thing you have to a lot of that's what's interesting about this job, man. It's like you guys do deal with so much on this, like, outer level of the transaction.
00;55;04;26 - 00;55;27;27
Unknown
But once the deal gets made, once we make an offer, if they're using a mortgage, the buyer's agent and my buyer's agents that love me, they kind of know this about me. Like, I'm kind of like, I'm going to steer the ship now, you know what I mean? Like, this is all about me organizing again, these couple of third parties that are involved in this transaction because the closing attorney, we love our closing attorneys.
00;55;27;27 - 00;55;44;16
Unknown
And Georgia obviously thank you for for you guys existing I've had do you know how many times I've had to walk closing attorney through a seller's all to because they put like a negative sign in front of a you know, or a they put a debit as a credit card that happened with that high at the closing table.
00;55;44;18 - 00;56;04;21
Unknown
Right. You know what I mean. Like, so it's like the and people don't understand that. And you have to have somebody that has the knowledge and the experience and the wherewithal and they want to. And that's that's what I think one of the big things that we're dealing with in our industry right now is you've got all this technology coming in and changing things.
00;56;04;28 - 00;56;27;04
Unknown
And again, a lot of people, there's a very finite amount of people that know how this business works. Sure. And it's hyperlocal. So per state it works different. You know what I mean? Like Florida, our neighbor to the south, my home state, they don't have financing or they don't have appraisal contingencies. It changes things. It's not you wouldn't think it doesn't really change it that much.
00;56;27;04 - 00;56;53;08
Unknown
But just having that appraisal contingency, I think Jersey Jersey's the other state. There's not a lot of states with appraisal contingencies, believe it or not, in the country. Jersey has it, I believe, and it just kind of gives somebody an extra day to kind of like get weird about, you know what I mean? Because if we're making a, we just made a offer a couple weeks ago and the agent's asking me and she's like, I almost hate just say, in 21 days anymore because we just didn't do it.
00;56;53;08 - 00;57;19;21
Unknown
But, you know, during Covid, we were doing three, five, seven, maybe 14 days if we were lucky. So it's hard for me to even say 21 days now and it's still transaction. I'm like, I don't want to do 21 days, but you can do 21 days if you need to. But but anyway, I just mean to say you guys wouldn't know that almost on a, you wouldn't know how fast I can do an appraisal unless I tell you there's definitely something that people, you know, we we're looking at every single term.
00;57;19;21 - 00;57;38;10
Unknown
You know, it's not just due diligence, not just sales price or closing costs. Commission. Yeah. It's, you know, closing date. It's due diligence appraisal contingency or not, you know, right. To request repairs instead of going through due diligence, I learned so many things going through Covid and being in so many bidding wars and having a lot of listings.
00;57;38;11 - 00;57;55;22
Unknown
Yeah. But also winning with buyers, a lot of the times. And that was one of my superpowers. Yeah. And, it took me going back and actually looking at my stats from 2020 to 22, because I was like, man, I've had a lot of buyers get the house they wanted on the first try. Yeah, yeah.
00;57;55;22 - 00;58;12;16
Unknown
And, you know, back then people were putting in, you know, they're like, oh yeah, I missed out on 16 houses. We put offers on. Yeah. It's like, well your agent doesn't have a very good track record, you know. And I was like, I did like 82%. Yeah. And those two years of my buyers got what they want on the first try.
00;58;12;16 - 00;58;29;07
Unknown
Yeah. That's right. We all we wrote we wrote escalation clauses. We you know I didn't generality man. Well they told me they wanted it. Yeah. And I was like this is what it's like if you're not in the flow of business. Yeah. You're not going to understand those nuances. No. Just like if you're not, if you're not playing your instrument.
00;58;29;08 - 00;58;56;23
Unknown
Yeah. Every day you're not going to be able to just sing through it. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and I it's funny because all these hats that we wear, all these tasks that we do man, parent and business man and musician and creative and also all consume mindless data just like the rest of you guys. It's so hard to not shame myself for not picking up my guitar as much as I should, or the drums or whatever, you know, because you just can't do everything.
00;58;56;29 - 00;59;12;15
Unknown
You might as well just be playful and try to check your spirit, like along the way. Yeah, I really enjoy just chatting with you, man. Yeah, thanks for coming. And just kind of riffing with us here and yeah, man, I was totally, psyched when you asked me. I was excited when you said you were going to start doing it.
00;59;12;15 - 00;59;27;29
Unknown
You were on another podcast. It looked great, too, by the way. Thanks, man. So yeah, man, I'm super stoked for you. I think this is going to be great. I believe when you believe that something's going to come out of this for you because of the effort that you've put into this, you know what I mean? And maybe somebody will see me.
00;59;27;29 - 00;59;43;22
Unknown
Maybe something like that will happen for me, you know what I mean? And I'm just just trying to, get as many, irons in the fire as possible right now, you know what I mean? It's it's an interesting time for all of us. So it's, it's going to be exciting in the future. We just got to stay on top of be intentional, you know.
00;59;43;23 - 01;00;02;27
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. And stay sane. Contact. And actually you know expand our network and be aware of who we're spending time with right. Yeah I kind of always think about you know, now that I'm a parent I am thinking about that kind of coaching mentality because there's a lot of guys coming up that didn't have, great examples like myself.
01;00;02;27 - 01;00;22;11
Unknown
And yeah, if we can be super attentive to who we're spending time with because that's who we're going to become, like, right? Yeah. Five people and maybe since the bar is so low for content out there. Yeah, maybe if we can put out, you know, positive, impactful, authentic stuff. Yeah, maybe something will come of it. Yeah. Clark, if people want to reach out to you for lender stuff.
01;00;22;12 - 01;00;41;13
Unknown
Yeah. Or whatever, just to connect, how can they reach you? Yeah, man. So I am Clark Crosby mortgage. If you just Google that, I should pop up. If you're in the land area. But you do step outside of Georgia too, or just or I'm into Florida. I do Florida too. And we technically, I mean, my teams license and most of the country, to be honest with you.
01;00;41;26 - 01;01;02;23
Unknown
So we can always help out folks. And we have a wide, diverse range of products. If it's a legal option that is available, I have access to it. We do everything. So I tell people, you know, lots of people are struggling. First time homebuyers are struggling with affordability right now. We got tons of access to down payment assistance, but also people are struggling with their credit scores too.
01;01;02;23 - 01;01;26;16
Unknown
So on the flip side of that, lots of people, this is what I hate is people that have money, that have low credit scores, that go to the 90% of banks that do Fannie, Freddie, you know what I mean? Love Fannie and Freddie, but there's more out there than just them. It's just a, you know, a, a result of 2008 is 90% of the financing in our country does the same thing.
01;01;26;18 - 01;01;45;24
Unknown
If you have somebody with a 500 credit score that has 20%, they can buy a house nowadays where long enough past Covid to where these banks are out here lending money and they're aggressive and they want people to buy a home. So, just remember to ask everybody that you can turn over every stone. There's always an option out there.
01;01;45;24 - 01;01;56;16
Unknown
But yeah, man, I'm all over the internet. Clark Crosby. Appreciate you dude. Yeah. And thanks again for the time, man. We'll do this again. Appreciate it brother. Thanks to thanks man fish appreciate.
