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Dimensions of Diversity is a podcast from the law firm of Buchanan Ingersoll and Rooney highlighting diversity in the workplace. Hosted by Lloyd Freeman, Chief Experience Officer, the podcast will include frank conversations with leaders all across the world of workplace diversity.
I'm Lloyd Freeman and this is Dimensions of Diversity. Many organizations turn to internships as a tried and true method for how you can actually advance diversity in your workplace. And we talk a lot about the theory behind why these programs should work, but not a lot about the proof points and how they actually have worked. And so I am so so pleased today to be able to interview one of my, I can now say, former interns, Jai Noah Martin. And Jai is now a freshman at Virginia State University.
Lloyd Freeman:And, we are getting a chance to catch up while he is home on his winter break, but I thought this will be a fantastic time for us to record our catch up session because I can go through some of those ways in which, potentially, this internship helps you to get to where you are. First, how are you? I'm I'm good.
Speaker 2:How are you doing?
Lloyd Freeman:I'm doing great. We're just also proud of you at Buchanan, but I wanna make sure that the listeners kind of understand, how this all comes about. So, you know, you were growing up in Pittsburgh, and attended Nazareth Prep. Talk to the listeners a bit about just what is Nazareth Prep.
Speaker 2:Nazareth Prep is a high school in Emsworth, PA. They run basically off of internships, So, that's how you pay for your tuition. So every student there does an internship. So it's usually based off of your interest. So you do a survey, and, it'll place you based on what you like.
Speaker 2:And, I guess I got placed at Buchanan, and they knew it would be a good fit for me. So happy they did.
Lloyd Freeman:Well and so we were approached, know, by some of the administrators in the school as, you know, this could be a potential partnership for us, and it it specifically came to me knowing some of the demographics at Nazareth Prep. So are there a lot of students of color at Nazareth Prep? Is that what you experienced
Speaker 2:Basically, all black school. Yeah. I would say that.
Lloyd Freeman:And so we thought that it would be fantastic to not only, of course, be able to tap into this very rich student body, but to also have you work in the diversity and inclusion department in our law firm because it can kind of marry, you know, what your experience is at the school with what work we're doing here at the law firm. But I wanna back up for a second because you said that they thought that Buchanan might be a good fit. So did you ever even think about the possibility of becoming a lawyer or working in a law firm before?
Speaker 2:That's what I like the most about telling my story about being an internship partner with Buchanan is because with me, I've been I never thought about being a lawyer or anything, and I ended up in a law firm and liked it so much that I came back. So that's the funniest part about all of it.
Lloyd Freeman:It it was the exposure. So it seems like it's something that you may not have necessarily well, let me ask that instead of telling you. Did you know any lawyers before you were being given this experience?
Speaker 2:Personally, no. I did not know any lawyers.
Lloyd Freeman:Got it. So you're kinda coming into this blind, just getting the chance to kinda feel your way through. Yeah. Talk to us a bit about your internship experience.
Speaker 2:At first so like I said, I didn't know any lawyers. I didn't want to be a lawyer. So at first, I'm just kinda like, alright. I'll just do this because I like sister Linda, and I don't wanna let her down, let her spread her down. And, I met, you.
Speaker 2:I met you and miss, Laura and miss Tiff, and they were just so welcoming. And they made me feel comfortable here because at first, I wouldn't say I wasn't comfortable, but I just didn't know what I was expecting. And they, like, assured me that I would be good, like, regardless of what I did. So I didn't have to do anything lawyer based, but the things that I was going in here learning, it was, like, so broad. I could apply anywhere.
Speaker 2:Yep. And that's what I liked about, being here because it's not just pinpointed to one thing. And I think that helped me with my major also, like, in college, business management. It's it's super broad. And having the experience here helped me definitely in college.
Speaker 2:So
Lloyd Freeman:I love it. Yeah. Then instead of just kind of focusing on, you know, like, the experience and, like, doing the work or even the exposure, Something that I don't even know that Nazareth Prep got you, made you aware that you might potentially benefit from was the mentorship. And so you talked about some of the personal connections you made with folks at Buchanan. How beneficial was that for you at that point in time?
Lloyd Freeman:And then what have you now, you know, looking back now that you're so mature and such so much older as a, you know, college student, Looking back in your seat now, how beneficial was it? So how beneficial was it back then? And then looking back, what can you glean from other that that experience?
Speaker 2:So back then, it was super beneficial because, we were thinking about college. Mhmm. So I I always say I didn't know what college I wanted to go to, what type of college, where, or anything like that. Meeting you, you told me about HBCU and Howard and all of that. So I think that really helped me because I I got, like, a, like, a head start on where I wanted to go in, what, tenth grade.
Speaker 2:Yep. So, yeah, that that helped me back then for sure. Super beneficial to have you guys, in tenth grade. And then I had you guys in twelfth in my senior year. Even though you told me about HBCUs and Howard and all of that, I still didn't for surely know.
Speaker 2:And then you held me, like, know about how well, HBCUs are kinda, like, not the same, but HBCUs and HBCUs. So I'm like, alright. He's not gonna be mad at me if I don't pick Howard. Not at all.
Lloyd Freeman:Not at all.
Speaker 2:That really helped me again. So I think it was beneficial as far as, like, me picking the school, like, the timing of it. Like, me going to college soon, that really helped. And looking back, now that I'm in college, I would say all of the skills that I've learned here, I just use every day almost at school. Especially being in business management, you have to kinda be, like, professional.
Speaker 2:So
Lloyd Freeman:Even the attire, I mean, the school had you wearing a a uniform every day. What are you wearing now that you're in college?
Speaker 2:I wear regular clothes Monday. You couldn't wait. I know. I couldn't wait. But with with with business, every Wednesday, you have to dress up.
Speaker 2:Okay. Good. If you go into that building. So Good. It's not it's not a problem, though.
Speaker 2:Never a problem to dress up, though. But
Lloyd Freeman:Love it. Yeah. So it wasn't a huge transition for you because you mentioned how the demographics at your high school at Nazareth Prep. You know, there were certainly a lot
Speaker 2:of students of color, a lot
Lloyd Freeman:of black students. And so now you're, at a historically black university. Not a huge difference by way of the demographics, but there have to be some differences. What what has changed for you by way of your experience in the classroom and and kind of just your educational experience overall?
Speaker 2:I think in high school, you can say everybody wants the same thing, but not everybody really cares to graduate or get a degree or anything. You know? So, but in college, everybody's there for the same thing kinda. Not the same degree, but everybody wants a degree regardless of if it's a associates or a bachelor's or anything like that. So I think seeing that a lot of people of color wanting the same thing really, like, just keeps me going and, like, inspires me, and it it just looks so good, like, just being around all of those people.
Lloyd Freeman:I'm gonna talk to you a bit about my experience, and you tell me whether yours is the same or or maybe even different. It for me, it wasn't just the classmates and, you know, everyone being, you know, who looks like you, and everyone being goal oriented and, you know, kind of this new network you are forming. But it was also the people in positions of authority. And so, you know, I thought it was very, very powerful to experience my professors being black and, you know, the deans of the schools being black and the president of the university being black and, you know, the winners of the homecoming pageant being black Yeah. And, you know, the student body president being black.
Lloyd Freeman:You don't get that experience too many places and certainly not at too many junctures in life. Yeah. And so for me, that was just extremely powerful, you know, coming to an HBCU. It was kinda like one of those things I didn't know I was going to get until I got there. And and, you know, some people go their entire.
Lloyd Freeman:I was teaching a class at Rutgers Law School. This is law school. Right, Jah? So someone who's gone through high school, undergrad, and and now is, you know, getting their their, professional degree, had never had a black man as a as a teacher, as a professor in their entire life. And so you're almost spoiled because, you know, you're going through, and it's like, what do you mean you never had a black man who's a teacher?
Lloyd Freeman:I had a black man who was my university president and dean, etcetera, etcetera. Did you kind of have that same awakening when you got to campus and you were like, woah. This is more of the students.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I did. It's like, with me, it's more of, like, I wasn't really surprised about the teachers and, like, authority like that being black. It was like okay. Say a RA or something.
Speaker 2:They're all students still. So it would I wasn't looking at it like, oh, they're all black. I'm like, wow. Like, they're still doing school while being in authority. So, like, it really gave me more respect for them.
Speaker 2:So that's that's what I would say for me. But I I don't think I was surprised because even my k through eight, I went to an all black school.
Lloyd Freeman:Ah.
Speaker 2:So it just kept, like, transferring over from k through eight to high school then to college. So I wasn't surprised about it. I would say it's just like, wow. Like, it's still going. Like Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm still I'm still here with people that look like me. So I'm like, definitely, it it looks good. I like it, though. It's great.
Lloyd Freeman:What's been, some of the challenges that you've experienced in this first semester, and how did you overcome them? The biggest challenge, and this might be the only challenge I
Speaker 2:could think of, is how independent you are. Like, it's crazy how, like, solo you are. Like, there's no parent. There's no like, there's teachers and professors, but they they're getting paid regardless. Right?
Speaker 2:Mhmm. They don't you don't have to come to class if
Lloyd Freeman:you don't want to. That's right.
Speaker 2:It's all up to you. So I think that's just the biggest, like, challenge. It's not really a challenge, but it's like a eye opener. Like
Lloyd Freeman:And there's no transition period. It's like your parents drop you off on, like, a a Saturday. And, like, by Saturday night, like, I'm independent. Like, this is it. We started.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. I think that's that's that's what the biggest challenge is if I say I I would have one. Just knowing that it's all up to you, that's it's too much sometimes in your head. Yeah. But once you it gets, like, repetitive after a while, and you figure it out.
Speaker 2:And it's like, alright. If I wanna keep going in the future, I just have to
Lloyd Freeman:get it done. What's been the greatest experience on campus? Miss Pace probably gotta say homecoming, but how
Speaker 2:I think I think it's homecoming seeing everybody get Okay.
Lloyd Freeman:So wait. I was gonna say, make sure that you explain what homecoming at an HBCU is like if we're gonna say homecoming as your answer.
Speaker 2:Homecoming at an HBCU is, like, one of the biggest events that happens in college life there. Everybody gets dressed. They wear their best clothes. They're outside all the time. I like the school I'm going to because it's down in the South, so the weather is nice.
Speaker 2:That's true. So I don't have to worry about being cold or anything like that. Yeah. Particularly coming from Pittsburgh. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But, people are just, like, all smiles during homecoming. Like, people might be failing even if you're failing your classes or something. Like, they still they still just found a way to smile and have their fun. That's homecoming is, like, the period where you can have your fun while being in college. And you still have to worry about, like, your classes and stuff because there's still class.
Speaker 2:But after class, you know, you can look forward to being with your friends later and just having a good time. So
Lloyd Freeman:Let let's transition a bit because I love what you're what you're saying about kind of, your whole mood can change or in spite of, you know, what you may be encountering going through, and you can put a smile on your faces. So it seems like that sense of community that you get during homecoming season.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Lloyd Freeman:But let's talk about that more broadly. Where did you find your sense of community when you got to campus? What were, like, some of the groups that you feel, like, welcomed you and and made you feel like, wow. This is home.
Speaker 2:So I like I'm not really, like, a people's person, so I don't I'm not really, like, with a big group of people or anything. But I do like to get dressed, and I like to wear, like, super nice clothes. And at the at that school, I've seen a lot of different people that also like to get dressed too. So just seeing somebody, like, wearing nice clothes, people give you compliments and stuff, it just makes you wanna, like, get dressed more and keep doing it. So I think, like, that that's what really made me feel like, yeah, I like homecoming a lot.
Speaker 2:Like, I wanna keep doing that.
Lloyd Freeman:That's right. You wish homecoming was Yeah.
Speaker 2:I wish homecoming was everywhere.
Lloyd Freeman:Yeah. Unfortunately, you gotta go to class. Can't do it. Yeah. Can't do it.
Lloyd Freeman:We never touched on this, but, you know, we tried to create a sense of community for you here at Buchanan, and we gave you the the graduation send off. Can you tell the listeners a bit about the graduation send off? Because I know you didn't know anything about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it was a surprise to me, not my family. They they lied to me. But so they, I liked it. It was I loved it.
Speaker 2:I don't I don't even have words for it. It was super, like, thoughtful. I'm just grateful. I'm just grateful for it.
Lloyd Freeman:No. We were proud of you. We still are proud of you, but it particularly, you know, for you to, you know, be able to to graduate and already have, like, your plan set and, you know, you you have to make sure that you understand that, you know, you've still got family. Mhmm. And family is in, like, the broadest sense of the word.
Lloyd Freeman:Right? Like, it can be your work family. And everywhere you go, you're developing that community. And so, like, the network just gets larger. And so whenever you need people, whether it's to help them furnish your dorm room Mhmm.
Lloyd Freeman:Like we did at the grad party or scholarship or whatever it is, you gotta remember, like, I've I have this network and this family that I could always rely upon if I ever need them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's what I was, like, thinking, wow. It was going on. I'm like, wow. Like, this isn't just an internship, like, a school internship.
Speaker 2:Like, they really care for me. So it was just it was super nice. And I just like knowing that anytime I could come back here, ask you guys questions, if I need help with anything, just knowing I have you guys there for me Yep. As a resource is just enough right there.
Lloyd Freeman:Yeah. You gotta talk about your family. So I know the answer is they're proud, but, what what have been some of the reactions, from your family with you? Number one, moving away from Pittsburgh. Yeah.
Lloyd Freeman:And then number two, now that you're in college.
Speaker 2:I was always, like, the baby of the family. Uh-huh. So now that I'm older, they're just so, like, happy and so proud. Like, I know you don't want me to say they're proud, but they they that's, like, the biggest word I can think of. Group?
Speaker 2:Like, as as far as them talking about me. Yeah. They just they just want me to do good, and they're they're happy as well for you guys because y'all did help me, get to where I'm at right now. There's not many people in my family that are doing what I'm doing. So, like, they're just they're just super, like, excited for me.
Speaker 2:I think I think they're more excited for me than I am for myself sometimes.
Lloyd Freeman:That's family. Yeah. How are they dealing with you being away from Pittsburgh? So, you know, Pittsburgh to Richmond is how many hours we're driving? Oh, six six and some change.
Lloyd Freeman:Okay. So we're talking about six plus hours away. This is not like, oh, I need to drop off some snacks
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Lloyd Freeman:To dry or, oh, oh my god. I'm hungry. Like, you know, can you all come and and save me? No. So you're over there on your own.
Lloyd Freeman:How is how is the family dealing with that and adjusting to it? And, also, how are you adjusting to it?
Speaker 2:My family, I think they're to me, the way they're showing it to me, they're actually taking it better than I thought they would. Right. So they're not, like, calling me every single second. Like, I thought there would be, but when I got back, you could tell they missed me a lot. But, I think they just try to worry about why I'm there instead of me just being there.
Speaker 2:They think about, like, okay. Well, he's down there doing school. He's getting it done. He gotta do what he has to do. So but me, I could not wait to leave the city because there's really not much here other than my family.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. As far as, like well, I don't wanna say there's not much here because there's a lot here, but I feel like there's more opportunity when when I got away. And, me being on my own, it really makes me, like, have to lock in and, like, focus on myself and do what I have to do. When I'm up here, I still do that, but my family's there to, like, kinda, like, baby me. Safety net.
Speaker 2:Of course they're gonna be there. But down there, there's, like, no safety. So safety net. So All on you. It's all on me.
Speaker 2:So I like it, but at the same time, it's like, don't forget why you're down here. That's it.
Lloyd Freeman:Yeah. Alright. Before we wrap up, what does the future look like? So what does this summer look like? What are your future goals by way of now that you've got some additional exposure and you've learned more in the business school and been, you know, exposed to some alumni, etcetera, what are you thinking about for career plans?
Lloyd Freeman:So start, I guess, on the small scale with internships and then move your way into what does life look like to go to
Speaker 2:Virginia State. Yeah. For internships, I was supposed to be actually talking about, internship here maybe. Oh, if you can? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Cool. Sure. I'm supposed to be asking you some questions maybe after this or something.
Lloyd Freeman:See, I I should I guess I should know this song. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. My aunt. I always say talk about her, but my aunt has a nonprofit ACH, the summer camp. I'll definitely be working there again. I just like to help her and support her.
Speaker 2:Yep. I have my own brand, a clothing brand that I've been working on. When I'm down at school, I try to scale it as much. There's so many people on campus, so I could just always just say, hey. I here's my brand.
Speaker 2:Here's my shirt. Blah blah blah.
Lloyd Freeman:So What's the brand? Where what's the shirt? Tell the listeners where
Speaker 2:they can find it. Mercer. Wear mercer dot com, w e a r m e r c e r dot com. I started it because I'm from Mercer Street, the Hill District. In 2020, my mom and my granddad passed away, and they were from there.
Speaker 2:And I was raised there, so I'm like, for a way to keep their name going and to for people to know where I come from, I said, I'll make a brand. I like clothes so that I'll just work together. Yep. But, yeah, I think in the future, I'm I wanna scale that. I want people at my school to help me, and it's like I'm helping them.
Speaker 2:They're helping me kind of thing. Business school at Virginia State helped me a lot. It helped me know, like, more about business, and it helped me know because there's been a whole bunch of trial and errors for my brand. And going to, business class, that's just a part of having a business. Like so now I know that.
Speaker 2:I'm like, okay. Well, I could still do this then.
Lloyd Freeman:You're kinda using your own entrepreneurial endeavor like a case study. Yeah. So as you learn more in
Speaker 2:the business school, you're able to, like, bring it back and execute. So it all works out. It's all goes hand hand in hand.
Lloyd Freeman:That's good. That's good. And What are you thinking about for the for the the long term future? So have you been exposed to anything that's made you think, oh, I might wanna make a pivot, or or maybe this is the potential career I want?
Speaker 2:Other than my brand stuff, I definitely wanna learn more about property. I see a lot of people, like, making a lot of money from just owning property and stuff. Yep. And, usually, a lot of people of color don't, like, know about property and how that works and stuff. So I wanna I wanna definitely get into that and try to help other people, like, learn about it and, like, learn about being an entrepreneur as well eventually in the future.
Speaker 2:I don't know all of it right now because I'm still learning. But after school, I should have all the tools to be able to help other people without them necessarily having to go to college for four years for it. Mhmm. Yeah.
Lloyd Freeman:Have you found any, any other mentors on campus or or professors or alumni you've been exposed to who've been able to help you kinda now that you're in this next chapter?
Speaker 2:I haven't found, like, a, like, a mentor specifically, but isn't super big. Like, our student to, teacher ratio is, like, 14 to one maybe. Oh, wow. So it's super small. So I have a connection with all my teachers.
Speaker 2:So I talk to them about different things, like, that could help me as well. Like, my English teacher, he knows a lot about, like, a business too. So you can talk to different teachers about stuff that maybe they're not just teaching. If you just have a conversation with them, you could learn a lot from them. So I like that part about my school.
Speaker 2:I can just talk, and there's that answer somewhere.
Lloyd Freeman:People forget that, you know, your professors can end up being I'm sure I don't I don't know if this is still a hip word, but the plug. And, like, they are the ones who not only can write you a letter of recommendation, but, you know, clearly, for them to teach business, they probably majored in business themselves. Right? They probably worked in that industry, you know, for some particular period of time before they went into teaching. So everything that you're trying to do, they've done it already.
Lloyd Freeman:Exactly. So it's kinda like a built in, you know, mentorship network, but if you take advantage of it. Exactly. Alright. So we'll end with, talk to Nazareth Prep.
Lloyd Freeman:Talk to, you know, the future interns at at Buchanan or anywhere else. Right? So other young people, inner city, could be in Pittsburgh, but they get this opportunity to have an internship. And, again, you had no idea what this internship was gonna do for you and how it would change the trajectory, but what is your advice for high school students who get the opportunity or even college students, you know, to get an internship, about kind of seizing the the opportunity and making the most of it?
Speaker 2:I was there in high school, and we had to do the internship program. And before I knew about it, I was probably thinking like, yeah. I don't I'm I don't know about this. Like, maybe it's not for me. I don't really wanna do this.
Speaker 2:But, if you take advantage of it, it it'll help. Like, no doubt. There's no doubt that it'll help you in the future. You just have to take advantage and learn from it. Like, learn whatever you can from it and apply it.
Speaker 2:That's all that's all I would say. I've I've done another internship in between the two Buchanan years, and I didn't like it at all, and that that's why I wanted to come back. But I didn't complain, and I still learned from it. Mhmm. And, if you I would say if you don't like your internship, learn why you don't like it.
Speaker 2:Don't just say you don't like it. Figure out why you don't like it. And instead of saying making a list like I like this and I like this, make a list of saying what you don't like. So then it'll it'll work together. Like, okay.
Speaker 2:I don't like this, so that means I must like these things. So that's what I had to do. That that would be my advice for anybody.
Lloyd Freeman:I love it. Well, it's not just your your your blood family who are proud of you. You know, your Buchanan family is proud and say, of course, shout out to your your blood family and to, all the folks in your circle and your village, both in Pittsburgh, the new folks you've met in Richmond. Shout out to Virginia State. I mean, because I can already see, like, the maturity.
Lloyd Freeman:You know, what a difference one semester makes. Look at you. Jai, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you.
Lloyd Freeman:Dimensions of Diversity is brought to you by Buchanan, Ingersoll, and Rooney. Please rate and review our podcast. We would love to hear from you. And don't forget to subscribe to hear all of our new content as we continue to explore ways in which we can all advance diversity and inclusion. I'm your host, Lloyd Freeman, and thank you for listening.