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The purpose of the show is to provide a critical examination of society and culture through the intersectional lens of race, gender, and class, more specifically it seeks to provide a COUNTER-NARRATIVE. The Show encourages a reflective assessment and critique of unique standpoints and their potential contribution to popular discourse.
Hello and welcome to the counter narrative show. Today's episode is on urban farming and food justice. I have the pleasure of being joined by some amazing folks right here in Baltimore who is working on urban farming and food justice. I am joined by mama Saray. Mama Saray has been feeding the scene with her delicious healthy food, striving to help bring more communities together by having free events in various neighborhoods, teaching lost skills like cooking and sewing to you. Franco Franca Mueller Paz is an award winning Latina educator and community organizer leading a progressive campaign for the Baltimore's 12th City Council District. She is also the co founder of Gloria Richardson of the Gloria Richardson solidarity gardens, also joined by Ms Harris on June 2013 shrimp to love farm open with the goal of providing job opportunities in the Sandtown Winchester community, as well as to address another serious problem plaguing several Baltimore city neighborhoods, food, apartheid. We're also joined by brother Lee Jordan. Brother Lee Jordan is an organizer, a mentor, an entrepreneur, serving as community organizer for black Yale Institute Baltimore. Black Yale Institute is an emerging Pan African institution based in Baltimore, Maryland. It aims to build independent power by establishing an Action Network and incubator of and for black people and entities in pursuit of food sovereignty.
I need to know everything. Who in the what in the where? I need everything. Trust me, I hear what you're saying, but I like this. Know what you're telling me. I'm Curious George. I happen to pause for five and a horse. I'm ready for war. I'm coming for throws to turn it with ghosts. I need to know everything.
I'm actually gonna go ahead and start this off with with brother Lee Jamal, one of, I'm sorry, with brother Lee Jordan. The first question I want to ask you is one of the things that mentions is food sovereignty. Can you talk to us a little bit about what exactly is food sovereignty? What does that mean? Food
sovereignty. So sovereignty just means control. So sovereignty just means control. So it just means controlling your own food, controlling your food system, control how your food air, and also having a say so and how it's distributed, where it's distributed, and what kinds of food you all are having. So it's really just having complete control of the food system and all of like the pieces that come with it
nice. Could you say a little bit more about, like, specifically, exactly why that focus is important? Why is food sovereignty a particular focus of black Yale Institute? Right? Yeah, so a little
bit, and we'll talk a little bit about it later, but a little bit of what black Yale Institute does is combat food apartheid. And for folks who don't know what food apartheid is, food apartheid is in in the most simple terms, the intention of putting grocery stores and putting grocery stores in specific areas based on income, based on race and based on class. So well and mainly race class. So we combat food apartheid, and to jump back, I'm sorry, I'm tanking. I'm losing your initial squat, food sirens, I'm sorry. So we combating food apartheid, and food sovereignty is a big piece of that, because without control of the food system, then food apartheid pretty much just flourishes, right? And the thing about food apartheid is it's controlled by those in power. So you're talking about the grocery stores that we all are. We all have had the chance to shop at Whole Foods or your Trader Joe's and any other super big organization of a grocery store, if you will. But a lot of what's behind those grocery stores are people with power and people who have, kind of, in my words, people will have a plan already of how, how they want this food system to play out, and the job they wanted to do, and the only way that we can combat on the only way we can defend ourselves, is by turning to ourselves and being reliant on ourselves, believing in what we want to grow, what we want to eat, and how we want To prepare food and just regain the control of those food systems.
Thank you for that. One of the things that brother Jordan mentioned Miss Harris was places like, you know, Trader Joe's and all of these other places where we can get produce from. So why? Why go about the business of urban farming. Why? Why not just go to the grocery store?
Well, one reason is that it's the food is locally grown, and if you notice, most of the times we're having to drive to those places. Mm. And I know for my community, a lot of our residents don't have access to vehicles that you can drive to those areas. Another reason is that sometimes those stores have the food is processed, or the food that is provided at those stores come from farms that are further out, whereas those of us that have urban farms, we're right here, we're local, and we can be patronized by our own and teaching them also. So it's like twofold. We're not only providing fresh but we're also teaching them in ways that they probably don't even know how to prepare or what's good for
them.
Speaking of preparation of food. I know a lot of the work that you do mama Saray is around. Let me make sure I start her video back up one of the work that one of the aspects of the work that Mama Saray does is preparation and education around food prep. Mama Saray, could you come on and talk to us a bit more about that right now? Yeah, I see your camera is actually off, and I think I might have did that by accident. There you go. There's that beautiful face, because I know a lot of your work is around fruit prep and educating people around food what are some of the things that you find yourself having to educate folks around food prep?
Basically, you'd be surprised at how many people, especially young, young people, young women, don't know how to cook. Everything is microwave. So when I have people ask me to teach them how, you know, they'll get vegetables from us and say, Well, I don't really know how to cook this. So I'll give them recipes, or I'll show them, if they have the time, how to prepare certain things, because I grew up cooking with my mom since I was four. So this is the pleasure to me to teach people, because I feel like a lot of the things that we were taught when we were younger is not taught to the young people anymore. They're missing those skills of cooking and sewing and just you know, what we used to call home economics was, of course, in schools years ago, but they're not there anymore.
I also frequently see you at different community events. You're always like out in the community, feeding the people at different events. Whenever I see you, I know I'm going to get some really good food. I'm always curious, though, what is the source of the food that you end up cooking? What? What locations do you get it from? Like, what urban farming locations do you get the food that you prepare from?
Well, we have our own garden in Hampton neighborhood. I use some of the food from our garden, ash tree garden. Also Food Rescue. We get donated a lot of food from Trader Joe's, mom's and Whole Foods, and also from the farmers market. They donate to us too when they have an access of food. So we get, I'll get my food from various places. Thank you. This epilepsy all organic. Franca,
Franca. I really like to hear from you about, like, I know one of the ways in which you got started with the CO founding, the Gloria Richardson solidarity gardens came out of this period of COVID. Can you talk a little bit more about how, how was it birthed out of that? What was the need that you guys were feeling Sure?
So when the Coronavirus crisis began and schools were closed, we had to address a reality, which was that a lot of students across the city get their food from Baltimore City schools actually 30% of Baltimore City students live in a food desert, so a distance away from being able to access healthy food. So many, many, many of our students rely on having consistent meals, and I do wish they were healthier, but from the school system. And so when schools closed, we needed to find a way to ensure that students were getting the nutrients and everything that they need to continue to thrive, even if they weren't coming to our physical school buildings. And unfortunately, there was a huge letdown from the housing authority of Baltimore City, in which they were telling residents that they were going to be supporting them through providing food at several housing projects. And so there were promises made that there was going to be foods delivered to places such as Perkins, Latrobe Douglas homes, and then for a period of time, that wasn't taking place and food was not being delivered to those locations. And we were lucky enough to have incredible community leaders like Reverend any chambers and organizers from Ujima to come and try to fill that void and coordinate for food donations. And unfortunately, there became, there began this power struggle between the housing authority and this effort to try to sustainably, you know, feed our communities. And so there were several attempts to try to shut down those food donations or threats of trying to get activists around this evicted and removed from their homes, especially even during a time period where there was a moratorium on evictions, threatening of calling the police for giving people food. So yeah, it was really terrible, and even when things became somewhat improved, which meant that the housing authority did begin to bring food. It was, you know, like a ham sandwich or something that is not enough once a day, you know, at around four o'clock or something like this that's not enough to take care of or sustain human beings. People need more and need more to live. And so the idea of beginning the Gloria Richardson solidarity gardens was that there, there needed to be some alternatives to having to rely on these systems. And also, you know, there was the unfortunate reality that there were stores that were beginning to up charge on such basic items such as milk and egg. And so this level of price gouging that was taking place, the lack of action from city government agencies, it really made it clear that we need to be able to take care of ourselves and find some liberation in our food so that we can have the ability to, you know, not just take care of ourselves, but also be in solidarity with our neighbors and Try to grow and share with our communities. So that's, you know, this crisis really breathed this into life, and it's such a pleasure to be here with folks who have been doing this work for so long, and I'm learning so much just from this conversation. So really, thank you for having me on. No,
it's a pleasure. It's so interesting, though, that you mentioned that because I would not think that there's this much resistance to getting people food. And I'm really curious about what was the source, the primary source of that resistance around providing people sustenance?
Yeah, I don't, I can't explain why you would try to stop food donations. There were some false reports of the food not being of a high quality, which was not true, and but trying to sort of smear the incredible community organizations that were trying to take care of the folks living at Douglas and I will say that the food work that's been done by Reverend any chambers and Ujima really fought hard and rallied with the community, and anyone who came was able to get food. People who would even come, folks who were driving their MTA would stop to get food. There were even police officers who said that their families needed food, that they weren't that there had family members who had been fired, and they needed help, so whoever came by got support. And so it really, it really saddens me to think that some agencies that were are, you know, meant to support us and take care of us, didn't do that work when we most needed them.
So I know you mentioned Ujima, so I'm going to bring on Brandon, because I really like to hear more about Ujima people's Progress Party. And if you could unmute, could you just give us a little bit of background on some of the work that the Ujima people's. Progress Party does
Good evening, everyone. Can you hear me loud and clear? Yes, yes. Thank you Good evening, and thank you for having me. Apologies for running behind but I'll just jump straight to it. So Ujima people's Progress Party is looking forward to being Maryland's first independent Black Worker led electoral party in the state of Maryland, which is pretty much more than just winning elections or getting on the ballot. It's pretty much a highlighting with Franka said, launching fight back programs to win power back to the people, but more importantly, to be able to have those who live in the community to have more than just in legal authority or any kind of power inside of the electoral arena, but more or less the grassroots authenticities to be able to launch block captains, to be able to have community events and as well as to answer the questions around community control of food, community control of Housing, Community control of education, health care, transportation and utilities as well. Because all too often we've noticed that a lot of folks, working class folks, particularly black and brown as as good Franka highlighted as well is that they're often locked into the two party system, and that they are either forced or believing that they're voting or they're into a political party because of what their family orientation has gotten them through, or their social circles and environment, or just because it's probably the right thing to do outside of voting for a boogeyman politician that isn't a Democrat, but for us, we look to be more than just an alternative you can vote for. We look to being an independent Black Worker led political party that can be able to operate 365, 365, days a year. Sorry, and also have community events such as food distribution, Gloria, Richardson solidarity gardens, as well as be able to launch self defense programs and trainings political education around Fannie Lou Hamer and as well as other iconic figures, and also celebrating certain months of the year, such as March, what we call revolutionary Black Women's History Month. So we can be able to put the focus on black workers and those who will come from the struggle of independent political action.
Could you say a little bit more for me please, about what community control of food looks like, in your opinion?
Yes, thank you. Thank you for asking me. So that is pretty much for us, particularly, we don't see community control of food as just being the end all be all, or as a cookie cutter solution, we do see it as the option that we start with food distribution, answering the simple question of before, during or after a pandemic, what are poor and working class folks are supposed to do? Be that in low income housing or affordable housing or mixed income. How are they able to make their bills work 40 hours a week, and as well as have enough money and resources to take care of other added amenities or be able to just take their family out, you know, for a night on the town, and still have to keep up with nutritious and quality foods. And particularly so with us, we've worked with Reverend Andy chambers in the Douglas homes area, which is one person as well who was a part of this initiative. And we've came up with that idea around, okay, if we can solve the first issue of if someone is not able to go to the market, or the sick, elderly, disabled and shut in, this case, then we should be able to bring them food and resources and also understand their health diets as well, whether they're a diabetic or not, be able to set those food aside and know that the lady down the street you know does not have a family members or anyone in this city or state that can be able to tend to her needs. So it's up to the community to step up and be able to have food distribution sites and mutual aid. And that evolves around, okay, if we answer that simple question of, how do we eat day to day? What happens when, just as Frank mentioned earlier, when the housing authority or those resources that are threatening low income communities to say, Hey, if you guys continue to feed yourself and receive food from private and public donors, we're going to know impose some unlawful restriction or unwritten policy that will intimidate people from coming to get the food and as well as distributing it, and then it would discourage people from altogether being a part of it. So we've come up with the window box garden model, which is nothing more but a pilot program of saying, Hey, I bet you can't grow your own food in your window. Okay, good. You think you're onto something. We're going to bring some mason jars and see if you can grow them out of jaws. Oh, I bet you can't grow your own food out of Mason jaws and window inside of a wine box. And. Now we say, Hey, I look at you, you know, you know. Say, probably an hour to some energy, and probably some dollars from going back and forth to the market, gas money or Uber from just simply growing food out of your window. Now the next question becomes, now that we see that you're able to provide for self and do for self on one model we've, you know, inadvertently, or should I say, unsubconsciously, tapped into a person's to be able to say, Hey, I'm no longer depending upon receiving my paycheck to go to the market, to go spend money at a grocery that is not a farmer's market, that is not grown from the land. So when we talk about growing food from a wine box gardens and from a mason jar. We're also talking about taking soil from black farmers, connecting with black and brown farmers, urban farmers in the community, working with black churches and bringing everyone into the community, control of food model to the point that the question asked, well, the demand is greater than the supply. So what do we need next land. So we'll have to get land to accommodate those who are growing food in their windows, who were once people who are receiving food from the mutual aid support that are now moving towards bringing their wine boxes, their mason jars and anything they had that is excessive and growing abundantly to a land that we can accommodate, either through the city or by, you know, independent will and action and say, Hey, this is our land that we wish to call we want to donate, not donate, but dedicate this land to in memory of Gloria Richardson, and call it GLORIA Richardson solidarity gardens. So that would be just a simple model in a nutshell on it. But most of all, we want to be able to add a political component on it, to understand that black people, at least in this country and as well as this state and city, the city and state that we're in, there's always been the problem of food sovereignty, or at least food insecurity. So when we're dealing with people who have different blood types that eat foods accordingly to their health and their diet, they will be able to grow their own food without actually hastening their health or bringing themselves haste into a definitely kind of, you know, physical model or internal ingestion of food from the market that we cannot guarantee whether or not it will expire by time we get it from The freezer stores in the grocery stores, to our refrigerator. So being able to have a control over how we eat our food, as well as connecting to the churches, the farmers on where our soil and our vegetables and as well as the the fruits and nutrients that we'll be able to consume on a consistent basis, we eliminate the dependency model on someone who's in office to tell us when to do something, or someone who has power or political or at least an economical position above the community, to tell us what is acceptable and what's not. We began taking powers into our own hands and start developing independent models of programs that can answer the question of food sovereignty, so we won't have to spend money with those who do not respect our politics, our ideas or our community.
Thank you for that brother, Lee Jordan. One of the things that Brandon mentioned sound and someone else also mentioned earlier was this connection to food deserts, like bringing up food deserts, and then also this aspect of sovereignty that I know black Yale Institute is very much focused on. Can you just share with the people, what exactly does it mean to live in a food desert? What does that mean? Okay,
so I really like this question. I appreciate it so to live in the food deserts, to live in the area where there's no access to food in your area, so, and I don't know the exact radius or miles, if you will, that that actually makes it that feels the area, but it's having no access to food. It's essentially what it is a desert, you know, in a desert, has just about nothing. And now, while I like this question and why it's always interesting to be asked about food deserts, because it brings us to this conversation about language, right? It brings us to really take a look at how we phrase things, right? And we have to be clear that a lot of the ways we are phrasing things and talking about things are also going to perpetuate, or also going to lead into how we solve our problems and how we find our solutions. Okay, so the food desert. There are food deserts in Baltimore and but however, the problems that we've came across in charter Hill and that I've seen other folks in other communities all throughout the city come across is food apartheid. And those two things are different, and they are very separate in the sense that you're in an area where there just happens to be no access to food. However, with the and I mentioned earlier, the intentional piece about food apartheid is that there was a blueprint rolled out at some point deciding that this. Where this, whatever food source that is, will be dropped into, and now just to use tri Hill, for example, tri Hill does not have a grocery store. However, it is a food apartheid area only because they have access to food inside of what would be, what folks know as Family Dollar. So you have folks who are buying or have to buy their groceries. And Mama Harris mentioned it earlier. A lot of folks in our community don't have the resources or or even, you know, something as simple as a car, to even get to the closest Food Lion or get for Harris Teeter and then, and there's layers, right? Because even when you get there, even if you travel by bus, you have, you have about two hour trip to a grocery store, and then your bus money is going into your grocery money. And then the worst part of it all, and I've actually experienced this when I was young, but having to carry the groceries, you know, back home on the bus, you know what I mean. So it's real weight. And I think, I think we have to really be sure that when we talk about a food desert, it is a food desert when, you know, I mean, as we analyze it, however, the problem, I think, is right now at the top of the menu is the food apartheid, and the fact that and the brother mentioned it, and the fact that we need to regain control of all of our resources, of of our narratives, and of how we share information with each other, and all of those little things, because that's going to allow us to actually Begin to have the real conversations with the right language and find the right solutions.
I'd like to, yeah, I'd like to jump in here, because brother Jordan is what he's saying is so true about the food apartheid here in same town, Winchester, we have about 17 liquor stores just about on every corner. And then no, we have no grocery store. The closest one would be at Mondawmin. And so with the subway, the mass transit, being down both at one area of the community, then you know, here we go, that people have to use their funds to get to a grocery store. So that's half your money right there. And then, when you think about the corner stores that Jack their prices threefold, and with that, you know, I think about mama Sarai, Because the education piece is so important because then people, our community is so used to going to these corner stores and accepting the prices, accepting outdated food, you know, they don't stop to look to see the expiration date. And so it's, for me, it's important that as everyone that's participating, we continue to get the message down how that urban farming food justice is what we have to stand up for. Is it okay
feeling time if I piggyback? Absolutely. Okay,
yeah, so mama, mama Harris mentioned and talked about how folks pretty much have to submit to whatever they have in the community, and sometimes that does end up being the corner store, the liquor store where you got to buy the $5 gallon of milk, versus, I think it's 239 if you get it, you know, I mean in your regular grocery store. But I just, I like, like, it's like, I think this is all things that we've, we've we've either seen or we've lived, and I think, I think it's I like, how much of not a coincidence it is, right? And I want to highlight the fact that like this exactly, this is exactly what the food system does. And a lot of folks come to me when we have these conversations, and what they what I try to ensure they don't leave with is this idea that the food system is broken because not broken at all. For something to be broken, it has to be, has to be, not able to function for what, whatever. The function was built for whatever. And this full system wasn't built to ensure that folks had fresh, affordable, cultural foods. The food system wasn't built to ensure that healthy food goes into all communities and all health issues are being adjusted with the equity view and not an equality view. It's just that it's so real, right? And it's an umbrella that we've been living under for so long. And just to bring it back to mama Harris's point. We've been so denormalized. I'm sorry we've been so normalized to to buying the American cheese singles, right, and to find the same groceries and eating eating the same ways in our eating habits constantly have been repetitive, and it's just, I think it's really one of those things where we really gotta. So you know, really looking to, you know, I mean, what we've been eating, not not recently, not just recently, but our lives and what our families been eating and what's been passed down. Because, I assure you, and if I'm wrong, please come in and tell me about myself. But I assure you, somewhere down that line, you'll see a break where that goes from, you know your great, great, grandmother's recipes to to what would be something that you've just gotten used to, and chicken pot pies, something of that nature, but
brother Lee there, like it froze a bit. One of the things that I feel like he hit on is something that you could really speak to Vama Saray in terms of that disconnect between you know, are you there? You had froze for a second?
Yeah, I was just so I was just gonna wrap it up. I was just saying, we've just been disconnected. The food system has disconnected us from the land and the work it takes to grow food. So when we have these farmers markets, and folks question why, why this produce is this much, or why do they quite, you know, or they question, why has holes in it? And you know what I mean, because we aren't using pesticides or anything of that nature, where we're from, and we also working on a land day by day to grow this. You know what I mean, fresh? You know I mean, and there's the food that the community wants and needs. So it's just, um, yeah, it's just the food system has its hands and a lot of a lot of different things, and you can see it overflow into just, just different areas where it really weighs in on black and brown, poor community, so I'm sorry I got into it right there.
So No please, no apologies necessary. That's what you're here for.
Mama Harris, if I can, please absolutely okay. I was born and raised in Sandtown, so and we have been looking for a another food rescue giveaway location, so maybe you and I can hook up, because the closest one, which I know most of the people from same town, will not come all the way over to North Avenue and drew hill. But we do have a food giveaway there every Wednesday at UMAR Boxing at 1217 right near the pawn shop. But I would like to bring one closer into Sandtown. That's something we've been thinking about four minutes, but I didn't know who to contact. I was going to contact Lisa, because I know she does a lot of food giveaways in fan town. But I wanted to mention, before we run out of time, the locations that we have tried our best to put food rescue and in different desert food desert areas of Baltimore, we do Sundays at 2pm we just started. This will be like the third Sunday at 2pm we give away fresh fruits and vegetables, organic fresh fruits and vegetables on Monday, that's at two o'clock on Sunday, Mondays, we do land, of course, at 12 noon on 840 Utah Street. Tuesdays, yo Baltimore, which was originally be daddy's headquarters, one of my my idols began, and she started giving away food long before anybody else even thought about it. Everybody remembers and on Fridays, food is giving away at Grace, Baptist Church at 1130 at 3201 the Alameda. So is anybody want to hit me up and get those addresses and times, you know, so that you can pass them on to community people. But I do want to do one directly in Sandtown, around, you know, Lawrence and carriage street where I was basically was my neighborhood in that area. I live near Gilmore projects too, and I wanted to say to Franca, is that my Bronco one
moment. Mama Saray, could you make Could you come back on the video? I think I accidentally clicked you off when I tried to spotlight you. Okay, I would love to see your face. Okay,
there you go. Okay, so the idea of doing something in Sandtown has been tossed around a while, so that would be a blessing to hook up with Miss Amelia to get that program started. But I wanted everybody to, you know, take down this list of locations so that you could send people who give away free organic fruits, vegetables, bread, milk, all the stuff that they would have to go pay me some money for I myself can't afford organic. If I wasn't working with free farm Baltimore, free farm, I wouldn't even have you know, my diet is so much better since I started volunteering and able to get fresh, organic vegetables and fruits. So when, when we get the chance. Us, maybe we can exchange numbers or information, or I can get it from the host for contacting the familiar.
I would love that. I would love that. Mama saraq, okay,
awesome. I love it. Mama Sarai, would you mind just saying that list one more time, and I want to say thank you to all of the 16 eyeballs. Or what is that? 3232 eyeballs that are watching, Mama. Sorry. Could you say that list for me once again? And I'm going to type it in the Facebook chat while you're saying it, so that folks could know
where they could get, uh, Food Rescue giveaways every Sunday at 2pm 3510 ash Street, Baltimore, free farm, Monday's land of Kush, vegan restaurant, cafe 840, Utah at 12 noon. Tuesday's yo Baltimore, 1510, Lafayette at 12 noon. Wednesday's UMAR Boxing. 1217 North Avenue and and that's 12 noon. And Baltimore free farm, 3510 actually at 12 noon, but two giveaways on Wednesday, Fridays, Grace, Baptist Church, 3201 the Alameda, we had one location Thursdays at in a Pratt library, but I don't know if that's going to start back up again. The coordinator has some health issues, and so we haven't been going to New Orleans ener Pratt library on Thursdays lately. So so so far, it's just four locations that we're doing right now. Thank
you so much. I might send you an email to see if I could get that list so I could distribute it. And
I wanted to talk about what she was saying. Franco was talking about the incident at Gilmore. I was involved in that too, and we were very upset that they would not allow food to be given to the elders. These were shut in, people who couldn't get out. And, you know, they were very disrespectful. They even were cursing at people, threatening to call the police just because we wanted to feed people. So of course, you know, I got the hold of certain politicians, numbers and the mayor's emails and stuff. And so we bombarded them with emails. I contacted Denise cope in channel 13, and we just was not giving up. So, yeah, that was a really good movement, and we won
Good, good on that. That, um, brings me to you, Brandon, you, uh, kind of mentioned this a bit earlier, but I feel like there should be more we talked a bit about, like the health aspect of food, and nutrition aspect of it and the food desert. But there's obviously a political component to this thing. Could you speak a little bit more to the political component of how the food systems are controlled and the importance of food sovereignty,
are you muted?
Yes, thank you, mom, so Ray and Miss Harris and as well, the brother who's spoken, the political component, as mom highlighted, is that when you're taking the position to be able to answer question that is been gone unanswered for so long. There will be pushback. There will be a lot of, you know, counter aggression towards it. And that's something that you know we we've always saw as an issue where, I think Thomas and Carver said he will fees. You can't control you. So if the institutions that are responsible for putting more grocery stores, more corner stores and liquor stores in our community, then community centers in in pretty much farmers market, then it'll be safe to say that we'll be taking money out of their pockets when we become independent and decide to say, Hey, I'm going to grow my own food, or I'm going to work with Mama saree, Mama, Mama Harris and others like Franca and whoever are on listening on the line. We're going to stop spending our money. We're going to save our resources, pull out energy and put out power together to into a social component where we're becoming more in the sense of human capital that can do more of itself in the community under that model, and that political component, is often faced as where we have now grocery stores that are accepting all forms of payment. But yet, if we are able to control the land and command that power to grow our own food, not only will be able to accept with payments as well as the economic component, we'll be able to have a farmers market where we can put pressure to those councilmen inside of those low income communities to say, hey, why don't you issue some vouchers or some resources that the community can come with? WIC. They they also their their EBT benefits is what is, their public assistance card, their their regular paycheck, or money, or whatever it is they wish to spend in other forms of payment, also locally. So we're not only able to feed ourselves, but we're able to create jobs out of that model. So we're keeping a consistent flow of volunteers, people who can distribute, people who can people who can work the land every day, and as well as keep track of those in the community who may take several medications or have certain health risk that they cannot eat certain foods, so we won't be dependent on the overpriced food or overpriced garbage that they sell at the corner store just to make it to the next day. But instead, we're actually have prepared foods that we can get from the ground, that we can also pay attention to each community members need, and have more and more pressure on politicians for those who think that they have the community's best interest, when in reality, where? When in reality, the community knows what's best for itself. So what we will need is a control of those resources. So those taxes and land giveaways they give to developers just to create land space and hold for the next big housing boom or real estate or developer to come in and get it for $1 $1 for 30 to 99 years that could be given to the community to control, and just expounding on the political component, I'm pretty sure we all are familiar that the Mondo, the greater Montgomery area, coming on down to, let's say, Pennsylvania, and North going into Baker Street, pushing down to Gilmore homes, they've lost another market hub not recently. This was about probably five years in counting. That is target. So the very fact that you got big corporations and institutions that are being given tax giveaways to community dollars and resources that can be used in the community where we can build up the land, harvest it, and be able to sustain ourselves through some agricultural needs. And means they'll give it to a company and and say, Hey, promise to stay here for 10 for 10 years. They'll cross their fingers and leave in eight years. And with the community to be left with is just the eyesore between another market being gone, where people can shop and get food and their tax money being taken with them from another corporation that we'll never see. So those kind of political components are also action in the question of, how do we attain power? How do we address the food apartheid and food sovereignty and the food insecure questions, while being able to meet the needs of those who are greater at risk with health issues, but are also dealing with the rigorous task of being able to keep the refrigerator full their bills paid and their health in check.
Man, I feel like that hits on so many other points I'm gonna I'm gonna come back to it, and I'm gonna let you know right now, the question that I want to come back to with you Brandon, is the impact of gentrification on access to food, and the types of access to food. In this moment, I'm going to go to Franca. And I really want to talk to you kind of about access to food, and even more specifically, the significance of access to culturally relevant food for certain communities, absolutely.
And I just want to say that you know these this is a life or death issue, like this issue of trying to find ways to ensure that we're developing our city, not just in these small corners and pockets that, like Brandon said, are being developed, and folks that are from outside of the city are taking tons of money, making money off of our backs, of our work, off of being their customers, off of, you know, living here like they're making money out of being here in Baltimore. And why don't they get like, why are we not demanding that they that they pay their fair share to keep developing the entirety of the city? You know, we have all these locations. We have, I don't know what I think it's like. One in every three African Americans in Baltimore live in, you know, food apartheid or a food desert. You know, why aren't we making it a priority to address those things? And we can just see how big the effect is when we look at Coronavirus and how deaths are landing right, we know that Black and Latinos are super disproportionately affected, and a big part of this is related with diet. We know that there is a correlation between people who live in areas of. Food apartheid and higher mortality rates, higher cases of diabetes, higher cases of heart disease. And what are the things make you more vulnerable to COVID? It's those, right? So if we don't solve this problem, you know, like someone has blood on their hands, like this is killing people. It's killing people through heart disease, through diabetes, through the COVID crisis. And even when this COVID crisis ends, the health impacts that are killing black and Latino communities, it's not going to go away. So we have to like, this is very urgent. We need to solve it now and so. And I love your question, Rasheem, around the idea of, how do we make this accessible and also honor the culture that's within our food? And I think there's been some really beautiful work happening with arte Sanas from the creative Alliance and connecting with food, and we're lucky enough to with the Gloria Richardson solidarity project to be working with community leaders like Yesenia Mejia and Alejandro Martinez to think about this question of, how can we use this as an opportunity for all of our communities to learn about the different food culture that we Bring and the medicinal aspects of food, right? I wanted to show something, which is, on Monday, we're going to be showing folks how to grow food in jars. So this is just like a jar, and I have some here, and our ability to use herbs is deeply connected to health. It has a lot of antioxidants and anti inflammatory abilities, and so making sure that we're creating needs for folks to connect with food, to make it easy for them to grow, and then doing the work that Mama Saray, that you're doing of showing people how to cook this food, how to use it, the connection it has with our roots, where it came from, right? We have the word tomato that comes from the indigenous language of Nawa from Mexico, getting to know how you know these foods, they're ours. They become to our they belong to our cultures and our history, and you know, they're here because our ancestors have been farming them and cultivating them for generations. And so someone earlier mentioned that there's been this huge schism between our histories and the food that we consume today, and that's really robbed us all of a piece of our culture and our identity. And so I really see this work as healing work to reconnect and honor its importance and to also take care of one another and ensure that we're putting life first. And yeah, I just think this, this can't keep going on. We can't allow uh, developers to keep getting rich while we're dying of diabetes and heart disease in our communities.
Well, Said,
I cannot add, uh, just something to that, Frank, you did it that was all so, so true, and needs to be really putting put into a lot of faces, honestly, but you mentioned something, and I'm just quickly saying it just about how it's killing us. And I think part of us being raffle our culture is through that, though, I think, and this, and I guess we'll talk about a little bit later. But black university was born out of the motivation from our serving director, or in doing, if you will, brother Eric, who made black your black honor, of his grandmother who died prematurely of diabetes. And I think a lot of that, or the biggest piece about that, is that food is like, what's what we're so normalized to what we're engaged in every day. It could be the one thing that puts us where we need to be, maybe not right away, but over time. And with that, a lot of our elders go and with a lot of our elders, it's a lot of our culture, right? That's a lot of things that hasn't been passed down, or could have been passed down and carried on. And I think that's where a lot of where sometimes we lose a lot of the culture that that we we strive so hard to keep and to pass down and keep going through our generation. So I just wanted to emphasize on that, Frank, I think you did an amazing job
talking about that. Thank you so much for sharing that both of you. I feel like one of the things that you share brother Lee, that just like really spoke to me, are the ways in which food can either kill us or heal us, and the foods that we have access to. I know you mentioned earlier that the system is working as it was designed, right? So then there's this conversation around. Around restructuring the design to create a design that is healing. One of the things I really appreciate about shrimp to love and so many of these other programs, Ms Harris, is it is it has a very strong community component, not just in the aspects of providing nutrients and sustenance for our bodies, but also the job component, the workforce development component. Can you speak a little bit to that and why that is such an important component of strength to
love? Sure, what happened was we realized our organization intersection of change. What we've tried to do is to reach out to the needs of the community, so it wasn't what we felt like what the community needed. We wanted to hear from the community tell us what you feel is needed. And so one area was in recovery for women, and so we started with that program, and then we moved to Jubilee arts to provide a safe haven for not just young people, but adults that they could come participate in those various activities and and then the farm came about. The strength of two came about because 21217, had the highest recidivism rate. So they come back into the community. They look around, try to find employment. There's no employment. And so they go back to the things that got them incarcerated. And so on the small scale, you know, we said, Well, let's start strength to love to which offered at first, helping with identification, because they come out, they have nothing. And so the very basics, the we would provide gift certificates to supermarket. We would provide assistance with birth certificates, everything that they needed to get back to independent living. And so as we work towards that there was this parcel of land that was just a breeding ground for drug abuse, needles and and all type of paraphernalia. And so the idea which came out from elder Harris, was that, why not? You know, let's try urban farming. And so we went to the city, and we started with one hoop house, and we went from one to, we have 16 now, and so, but it provided employment for those who really love this type of work, and it was also a stepping stone to get the those that were returning back from incarceration. It was a point that would at least help them to get employment, get a paycheck, and then see just where they wanted to go from there. You know, Farming isn't it's hard work, but, and you have to love it, but it was a means for employment that they could put down on a resume that said, Yes, I have been working, or I worked here. This is what I did. And they, you know, they were faithful, those who started with the farm, and then they were able to grow to other things. And so it is near and dear to us, because we don't have enough places that will employ returning citizens. You know, they've worked hard now they've gotten rid of the box, but when we started, the box was still there, and so it just made it hard for any of them returning citizens to get a decent and affordable position. And we would try to give. We would try to make sure that the pay scale was what someone going to one of the department stores would give to a return, you know, to an individual. Instead of looking at, oh, they checked this box. We're not going to hide them. No, we even was able to partner with different companies, a landscaping company, who was willing to take on our returning citizens. The. Because at the time, you know you can't hire everyone for the fall, but at least to have various partners to say, Yes, I'll be willing to take a chance and hire this individual. And so there have been some that have been doing landscaping work for the past seven years. And so you know for us that that's improvement, that is a joy to for them to come back and visit and say, Thank you. You know it kept them from going back to incarceration. And so, you know, I would there were other partners as we seek to look for more that will be willing to get rid of the stigma and be I guess, know that you can trust the individual. If I send someone to you, you can trust them. They're going to do what you ask for them to do, and all I ask is that you give them a living wage so that they can feed their family and take care
love that. That is awesome.
So we're getting to the bottom of the hour. I have another general question that I want to provide an opportunity for everyone who wants to know how to follow you, support you all, engage with whatever you have coming up next. I want to provide space for that before I get to that. What are some of the ways, small and big that people watching could possibly do within the next I don't know if they could do it today. They could do it in the next 30 days, if they can do in the next 60 or 90 days, what can people watching do to build an equitable food system for communities most impacted by the apartheid anybody can take that?
I'll start just dealing with what Mr. Millia said about there not being any grocery stores in same town. I think, you know, we could try to maybe get people together to possibly, because it's so many abandoning buildings in that area, it's ridiculous when I, when I drive through Sandtown, I usually cry because I remembered, you know, the neighborhood that I grew up in, and now all I see is drugs and boarded up buildings everywhere. And I thought the same thing. The last time I was in the area, I saw one store on carry and launch. That was it. You know, even the market on Pennsylvania Avenue has very limited supplies of anything decent. So to try to get, you know, some type of mini market or something down there would be a goal I would, I would be willing to work on, Okay,
anybody else, I
think, you know, something that would be really powerful is definitely, you know, and it's been so eye opening to be in this conversation, but to continue working together, to think, How can we create something that provides for our community what they need, but is ours, you know, I don't think we need More companies that are going to benefit off of our harder money, but instead being able to create something like a grocery store cooperative that belongs to us, that belongs to the people that live there and the people that shop there, and because we have control over it, you know, it could be an opportunity for returning citizens, like you were saying, Miss Harris, you know, maybe the Co Op, that's, that's a, that's a way a cooperative could work, is that it supports the employment of returning citizens. So I think that we, we are, the majority of this city, are the folks that are experiencing the experiencing these issues in our community. So I think there's a lot of creative possibilities if we come together and really demand solutions now, and demand solutions our way, that are community led, that empower us, that don't take money out of our city, but it's for us and it's for our community, and if we have these incredible farming initiatives that can also, you know, be a place where urban farmers or folks that decide, you know, like, I'm going to fill my window with men and I'm going to, you know, sell it at, you know, this community store. I just think there's so many opportunities for us to take care of each other. And so I really, you know, this isn't such an inspiring conversation, and I look forward to the continued conversation to see how we can, you know, take, take the take our city back and stop allowing, you know, essentially, you know, the murder of our citizens through unhealthy food. And I think because. It's a slow killer. People don't, don't feel the urgency, you know, it takes a long time. It takes a long time of eating something healthy. That's, you know, slowly poisoning you. But I think we got to see it for what it is. And like I said, someone has blood on their hands. Many people do. The longer we go without solving these problems. Yeah, agree?
Yes, I agree. I think one, if not a few things that could be done. And, you know, just in a in a simpler way, would be having a conversation with a neighbor, anyone, just simply around the basis of, exactly, well, how does sanitation look like in your community? Because the reason why that question has to be asked that and along with the foods that that ties to the food sovereignty question, it is always a political component that it comes back to, because if we can see that our drains and our sewage system itself are already cluttered with trash that we that we're getting from the corner stores, from lack of having the adequate grocery markets in farmer's market for that matter, of who we can compost and regrow anyway, that conversation itself would lead to, well, how does so much trash and how much So so much about natural resource itself, get neglected with the trash, stay around longer. So when you're able to have that conversation to build in a communal way, you establish a relationship between the things you have in common. That is, we're living inside of districts, inside of areas represented by political powers in an economic interest that profits off of Al despair. They benefit from the problem not being being resolved. And that's kind of what Baltimore has, you know, becoming in the past few years, recycled pain. So we're able to have that conversation around, hey, this is an empty lot right here, full of trash. We saw how many people you know run for this district get reelected, and how many times did they mention it we've had, how many events about other issues that tie into it, be that the element of crime, violence and recidivism as as mama Harris mission, if we're able to answer the question of exactly of what's in our community and which stays longer, We'll be able to come to those conclusions, of block cleanups, of assuming power of the land where those trash are on empty lots, and to be able to claim in that land of our own, simply because we're no longer dealing with looking outside of our window and seeing a bottle or a piece of plastic or any kind of trash near house that's, let alone the block that we live on that we walk next door to talk to our neighbor about the issue of how certain things that are staying around longer are no good for us, and the things that we need are often or not always further away or if not within, eyeshot or arms reach.
Next, I'll see y'all a whole bunch more. I'm gonna go to some of the comments. Thanks again for everyone who is watching. Aubrey says yes. Christina meninger says yes. Franca worker, food cooperative. Antoinette pill says that is an awesome idea. Food co op in the community. Jamila Jamila says, Mama Saray, thank you. I'm a neighbor. Agree we need a market to support our black farmers food. I would like to speak with you about this. She's in the chat. If you want to connect. There's 11 other comments. They were moving pretty fast. I just got to the ones that I could be able to see. I want to definitely take the time to thank everyone for joining us and just go through each one. And just like I'm going to start with you, Franca, what do you have coming up next? How can people connect with you? Follow you all of that stuff. Sure.
So I'll actually be formally announcing my candidacy tomorrow. We're going to be doing a COVID safe bike tour around district 12, which is the district I'll be running in. And so we're going to start at 29th and Charles make a stop in front of Douglas homes, and then, and then we'll also stop over at the Oliver rec center. And so feel free to join us. We're going to be meeting at six. If you want to learn more, you can follow me on basically any social media at Franca Mueller Paz, which is my name that is up here with my video. And so at Franca Mueller paws, and tomorrow, we have a really sorry on Monday, we have a really exciting event with the Gloria Richardson solidarity garden. So from 12 to 4pm and Brandon correct me, if the details are off, we're going to be in front of 247 North Dallas Street, which is right at Orleans and bond and. Front of Douglas homes, and we are going to be learning how to to do these so how to be able to grow like if you don't, you might I live in a studio apartment. So if I've had to find really creative ways for how I can create green space in here. So you know, no matter what like, you can fit a jar and grow your own food and save money on things like expensive herbs and lettuce and stuff like that. And so if you want to learn how to grow, just bring some mason jars. Meet us. We'll be doing workshops on how to do it. We'll also be you can bring wine boxes. If you have wine boxes, we'll be making wine box gardens, you can kind of take a look at mine, you know, take advantage of, you know, make those liquor stores good for something. Ask them for a wine box. They'll give them to you for free. And you just drill some holes in the bottom, put some dirt in it, and it's ready to go, you know. So we have a lot of resources we can use to begin this journey to food sovereignty. And I think you know, it's it's a small step, but that's how it begins, and it's also a way to empower people around this work. But thank you again, Rasheem for inviting me and again at Franco Mueller, boss, you can follow me on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook.
Thank you, Mama Harris, could you tell us how to find you and what are you up to next?
Alright, one of the things that we're doing right now is providing fresh salads every Tuesday in partnership with clergy united for the transformation of Sandtown, and they distribute what's called Grab and Go lunches. And we have been providing salad from our garden, from our farm. And I think this past Tuesday, we did over 100 and so we'll be doing this every other Tuesday at 1142 North Fulton Avenue. And so you're welcome to stop by. We have, you know, our organization, intersection of change believes in partnerships. So if you are interested in getting in touch with me, you can do volunteer coordinator at intersection of change.org, or you can do s 2l, two.org, and that will take you straight to the strength to love, to farms website. And also we, we have our Jubilee arts program that have just started, virtual classes, dance classes, art classes, Clay classes. And so it's been amazing. We actually did Jubilee Joy boxes, which we provided fresh greens with a simple recipe along with it and it, it was, it was amazing to see the comments that came back that people really enjoyed. So they they want to eat, right? You know, if we can provide them the foods that would be beneficial, healthier for them. So I believe that's about we're getting ready to launch a capital campaign on Kavanaugh Street in between Monroe and Fulton, and sometime in August. So you know, if you want to come and volunteer, you're quite welcome.
Thank you for sharing that I am one of the teachers right now during the summer at Jubilee, I'm teaching digital activism online, so come and sign your kid up. All right, Mama Saray, what are you up to next? And how can people find you, follow you, support you.
Anybody can email me at prime time for unity. That's what for four instead of the word written out prime time for unity@gmail.com tomorrow at 2pm at 3510 ash Street, at the bottom of three farms, we'll be giving away fresh fruits and vegetables, milk, bread, eggs, all kinds of we depend on what we get in, which is normally a good amount of food, and we get donations from the farmer's market tomorrow too. So anybody that wants to come by the giveaway again is at two o'clock, and we do Wednesdays at two. I mean, Wednesdays at 12 noon. Sorry, when Sundays two, Wednesdays at 12 noon. Um. And they can hit me up on Facebook, Saray Israel, S, A, R, A, y, and again, the quickest way to get in contact with me is to prime time for unity@gmail.com.
And you said 3510 ash Street, yes, eight. Okay, awesome. Thank you. Brandon, how? What are you up to next? How can people find you, follow you, support you,
yes. So on Monday, at 12 to 4pm as Frank Commission, we will have the wine box gardens at 247 North Dallas court, as well as the Food Distribution Program Monday through Friday, from 12pm to 3:30pm every day, and that evening, we will also have Fannie Lou Hamer political education class, where we will be studying Malcolm X's speech the ballot or the bullet, and we can be reached on Facebook at Ujima people's Progress Party, on Twitter at Ujima people's Progress Party, or twitter handle Eugene Maryland on Instagram at Ujima people's Progress Party. And our email address is you pp maryland@gmail.com
so could you say gmail.com could you say Monday? You said Monday noon
to four? Yes, Monday at 12pm to 4pm as well. We also going to have, I'm sorry that I forgot to mention this, but liberation through reading is going to be gifting children and families books by black authors as well.
Black author the 12 the Monday, 12 to 4pm that's at 247 what
Street North Dallas court. Sorry if I was speaking fast.
Oh, you were speaking regular. I'm typing slow, and then Monday through Friday, I missed that part, but then you said the
Monday lou Hamer, okay, go ahead, yes, so I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So on Monday evening at at 8:30pm we have a Fannie Lou Hamer political education class that is online, and the details are on our Facebook, Instagram and Twitter web page also, but every Monday through Friday, from 12 to 4pm we have the food distribution at 247 North Dallas court, the same location that we'll be having the wine box gardens, the liberation through reading gifting children with black authors and as well as a community engagement exchange pretty much between food, books and conversation on that day, Monday. Okay, awesome.
All right. Brother. Lee Jordan, how can people find you, follow you, and what you up to next?
Um, so, um, real quick. If I can, I wanted to share. I didn't get to share what black youth Institute is and does. So if I can do that really quickly, please. So Black units to is a Pan African, unapologetically, unapologetically black organization that's working to create self sustaining and self reliant black and brown, black, brown and poor communities. And we do that through five ways. We have five initiative areas. First is one of our highlights, which is urban agriculture. We stood at one and a quarter acre farm where we are constantly distributing food for pop up markets throughout the community, different programs, different and different programs in schools and senior homes and things of that nature. We also have our st Carl haymark Academy, which is our political education initiative. We've had programs recently which is very similar what Brother brand is doing, engaging folks and really having folks study our leaders. However, since COVID, we've we've adjusted and went digital. So we do now just a bi weekly series. We call it the payday show. We get paid every two weeks. Some of y'all big money. Y'all get paid every week, but we do a chug talk, which is our political education show. You'll see it bi weekly. You can catch it. You can catch it. You can catch the link for it on Instagram. You'll see it on Facebook
as well, which is, what's the Instagram tag to catch it? Prime is at
Black yield Institute and also at Black yo, Twitter, Facebook, um, in the last few things, we also do food, sushi organizing. Right now we're working to build a cooperatively owned grocery store in Cherry Hill to combat the food apartheid. In place of that, we are doing a pop up market every first two Sundays of the month, and it starts back up next month. So August 2 is when it starts back up where we will be in Cherry Hill, serving folks, providing fresh produce, fresh and affordable produce. And the very last thing I'll say. Is our black food research and inquiry Initiative, where we are really just working to control our own narratives and making our contribution to our contribution to really just our own narratives and our own studies and our own research. It's just been all too many times where folks have came into our communities, written and spend time with us and soaked up culture and told stories incorrectly, you know? I mean, so all in all, just all too often, where stories are told about us, but not by us. And, yeah, I believe that's my Oh, I'm sorry. Lastly, our council for black line of food sovereignty, where we are just working with working with other black leaders, organizations and groups who are just coming together, and really where we organize our black people and lift them up and and lift them up and work towards goals collectively. And to be clear, when I say, lift them up that that that is really just our relationship. Building relationship is the smallest aspect of society. You have to have a relationship. So we do our best to manage those and with that by management. And I want to be very clear. I want everybody to hear me very clear when I say this by management. We do that through, uh, through just chilling, talking, playing music. But emphasis on this one, we do that through spades as well. And for those who know spades, um, just be careful and tread lightly when coming my way, that's where the building happens for us is what we're really engaging with each other and being ourselves, you know? I mean, it's just our it's our liberated zone where folks can, you know? I mean, really, just open up. So that's what we are doing. Please look out for our pop up markets, first two Sundays of every month, from from one to five, and going to be right in Cherry Hill. Please look out for Chuck talk bi weekly. You can catch that on Facebook. And also we have our volunteer days every Sunday, every Saturday and Sunday, from nine to 1pm if you're interested, please jump on our jump on our website. Go to our link and our website is blackyoid institute.org and go to our link, and please sign up and volunteer registration. My name again, is Lee Jordan. My emails out jordan@blackunestu.org if anybody wants to reach me, and that's all I got. I appreciate y'all. This has been amazing.
Wow, that's a lot.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry I always dropped the ball right now, no, not, no, no. I'm not
saying like, you specifically, a lot. I'm saying like, you know what I mean, the collective, that's a lot of resources and information. I think I gave everybody opportunity to share what they're up to next thing, yeah, absolutely,
this year will be our 50th, 50th tribute to Marcus Garvey in Holland Park. I would hope the park packed brother Charlie Dugger. If anybody's not familiar with Charlie Dugger, he was a former school teacher. He's retired now, but he's always been a very active person in the community, doing positive things like taking especially for the young men, he would take them canoeing. He would have all kinds of programs to kind of mentored the young brothers, and he would have pool parties at Google Park. And, I mean, he's just been and he's had this particular tribute to Marcus Garvey for it will be the 50th year this year. So at Holland Park on 1500 Harlem Avenue, 21217, last year we had a beautiful August the 15th. Sorry, thank you, Jordan, August the 15th hit. You know, Marcus Garvey's birthday is the 17th. So this month you usually do it on a Saturday. So it's probably 15th. It's probably a Saturday. Last year we had a human red, black and green flag. Everybody had on some people had on red, some had on black, some had on green, and they made a human red, black and green flag. It's one of the most beautiful things I've seen in my life. But, um, yeah, this year is the 50th so I was I'm hoping that everybody comes out and, you know, Marcus Garvey always preach self sufficiency and up your mighty race you can accomplish what you will. So we have kept that concept and kept his name and his history and his mission alive for 50 years in Highland Park.
Thank you so much. I feel so blessed right now to have been able to have this conversation with all of you. I feel good, and I feel like I could sleep better at night, because I know y'all are out there like, you know, feeding the people. There's all of these resources. If you if you are willing and able, send me a look, because I don't think I was able to type it as fast as everyone was speaking, but if you send it to me, I'll make sure I put it under, the video, and then when I repost it to YouTube, I will put it in the description there too to make sure that people have access to it. So thank you so much for sharing your time and your talent with the counter narrative show today. Thank you to everyone who was able to tune in and watch it, even people who are watching on replay. Um. Next week, we'll be joined by day von love, where we'll be talking about from protest to policy and making that link between activism and legislation. Thank you very much for your time, and have a fantastic night. I am going to stop thank.