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What’s the story you can’t stop telling? Fran and Bethany are here to help you write, sell, and launch it.
Literary agent Bethany Saltman and bookstore owner Fran Hauser—also both critically acclaimed authors—host Bookbound, the podcast for non-fiction writers who want to learn how to transform their ideas, expertise, and obsessions into successful books and publishing deals. Fran and Bethany interview accomplished authors who share the strategies and surprises behind their bookbound journeys. These how-I-did-it conversations will inspire listeners to claim their own “author-ity” mindset and turn the story they can’t stop telling into a book the world needs to read.
To connect with the hosts and more, go to www.bookboundpodcast.com/
Rachel Somerstein [00:00:00]:
I'm never going to have 250,000 followers on Instagram. And that's okay. Nobody in my experience of putting this book out said anything to me about, like, your social media sucks.
Bethany Saltman [00:00:11]:
My name is Bethany Saltman, and I am an author and a best-selling book coach.
Fran Hauser [00:00:17]:
And I'm Fran Hauser. I'm an author, a keynote speaker, and a publishing strategist. These how I did it conversations will inspire listeners to claim their own authority mindset and turn the story they can't stop telling into a book the world needs to read.
Bethany Saltman [00:00:32]:
This is Bookbound, the podcast created in partnership with Share Your Genius. Are you worried that you don't have a big enough platform to get a publishing deal, let alone at a big five publisher? Well, you're not alone. That's what we hear over and over again from agents and editors. And yet, our guest, Rachel Somerstein, an associate professor of journalism at SUNY New Paltz, got a deal with a big five publisher to write her book, Invisible Labor: The Untold Story of the Cesarean Section. With a modest platform and no social media to speak of, join us for this incredible conversation about what it takes to get a deal in today's crowded market. And no, it's not to have a big platform. You just have to have a great idea. Let's dive in.
Fran Hauser [00:01:18]:
Hey, Rachel.
Bethany Saltman [00:01:19]:
Thank you for being here.
Rachel Somerstein [00:01:20]:
Thank you so much for having me.
Bethany Saltman [00:01:22]:
We're really excited to talk to you about your amazing book, Invisible Labor: The Untold Story of the Cesarean Section. We like to start every interview with a similar kind of a question, and then we're going to get into it a little bit more with you because we're really intrigued because you already wrote about it in the book a little bit. So talk to us a little bit about how you knew that this thing that was happening in your life had happened in your life was not just something that you had to deal with, perhaps a trauma, but also a book.
Rachel Somerstein [00:01:54]:
So I had been working on a different project, and I write about this in the book a little bit, and I had this moment of total clarity where I was like, why am I doing this other project? The most important thing that has ever happened to me was my c section. And not just because I became a parent, which for me was this transformative experience as it is for most people, but how I became a parent. So I get to this point where I was like, I need to pay attention to that, and I need to write about that. So I wrote an essay first, and then as I was reading more about c sections. I was like, oh, there's a lot here that's far more compelling than simply my own experience. And that's how I knew it was a big project.
Bethany Saltman [00:02:37]:
That's so good. A lot of our listeners and students wonder. They have an idea, a story they can't stop telling, which is how we like to talk about it, but they're not sure if it's a book. And what you did was you wrote an essay about it, which is such a good thing to do, a to test the idea, to see if you're interested. But I love what you said, that you realize that there's a lot more to it than even what you knew, and so then you knew that it was a book. So that's a great teaching for people.
Rachel Somerstein [00:03:06]:
Yeah. Thanks. And also, I realized I should say that I knew I didn't want to write a memoir. That wouldn't have been the right thing for me as a genre. And I was even more interested in c sections as a procedure and what they could reveal about, let's say, the United States than in writing about my own healing process, which a different writer might have a different feeling about that. Right. But that's how I felt as the author.
Bethany Saltman [00:03:30]:
Yeah, that's so important, because, again, so many people who we work with are at that exact crossroads. They have a topic, and they're not sure if it's a memoir. And they might even get pressure from agents or editors to tell it one way or another. So tell us, was that ever an issue? Was it a question? Did people ask you to do it one way or another? Talk to us about that.
Rachel Somerstein [00:03:52]:
It was not an issue. On the first draft, I gave a copy of the first draft to a couple of very close friends, and one of them, my closest friend from college, was like, you need to put more of yourself in here. At first, I was like, hmm. And then I thought, you know, she and I have very similar reading habits. What would be, like an ideal book? And even though she had very different birth experiences than I did, I really paid attention to that. And I should say, for me, if I had been pressured to be more memoirish, like, this might sound like a funny thing to say, because I write about this personal stuff in the book, but I'm very private about certain things in my life, and I was very clear about what I would not write about. I, fortunately, was not in a position where I had to say, no, I won't do that. I didn't have that much space to bend.
Fran Hauser [00:04:39]:
So you wrote the essay, and then you realized, okay, there's a book here. What did you do next? Did you have an understanding of how book publishing works? Did you know that? Oh, okay. Now I need to write a book proposal. I need to get an agent. Tell us about that.
Rachel Somerstein [00:04:57]:
I really didn't know that much. I have an MFA, but I studied fiction, so I knew more about writing a novel and trying to get that published, for which you have to have the whole manuscript done. And with writing a proposal, I was like, I don't even know where to begin. And so I asked a couple of friends who had written nonfiction books if they would share their proposals with me, and they were very generous, and they did. And that gave me a map. I see now what I would say to somebody and what I have told people who are asking me, like, how did you do it? It's a genre. Just like, a service piece is a genre or a recipe is a genre. A proposal is a genre.
Rachel Somerstein [00:05:34]:
And so I did my best to copy the genre while making it, like, this is my own book.
Bethany Saltman [00:05:42]:
That's brilliant. It is definitely a genre. It's also an art.
Rachel Somerstein [00:05:46]:
It really was an artful document to figure out, like, what's the terrain of this book? And also to wrap my mind around, like, this is a book, and it's not essays. It's a book with a narrative arc. And then, I should say, in terms of finding an agent. I also had friends who shared their agent contacts with me, which was very generous. But the way I found my agent, ultimately, was through a conference, and I am extremely lucky because she's a great fit.
Fran Hauser [00:06:12]:
Oh, that's so cool. So do you mind sharing the conference?
Rachel Somerstein [00:06:15]:
Sure. It was the CLMP conference. They had this sort of, like, speed dating thing with agents. This was in 2020. It was remote. You know, it was virtual. You had to pay to be in the conference. It was, like, $300, and it was like a dare for me to myself because it was like, okay, if you're really serious about doing this book, then, like, go for it.
Rachel Somerstein [00:06:41]:
Like, put some skin in the game kind of thing. And also, that meant that I had to more than the financial investment, I had to prepare something real to talk about in these meetings as opposed to this thing that was, like, in my head and kind of really solidify my elevator pitch. So I'm lucky that this agent wasn't right away that she wanted to work with me, but ultimately, we did want to work together. But really, it was forcing me to, like, put myself, I don't know, in a place where I could articulate my project.
Fran Hauser [00:07:10]:
Right. Because, like, when you're all by yourself working on it, versus now you're accountable to someone and you have a timeline and you have deadlines, which is such a good thing. You have a forcing mechanism. Right. Which is so good. So, Rachel, you brought up comps before. One of the things that I'm really curious to learn more about is that there doesn't seem to be a huge number of books out there about c sections. So was that a positive or a negative when you were pitching the book?
Rachel Somerstein [00:07:45]:
Yes. I really appreciate you asking that, because on the one hand, there was no other book about C sections. On the other hand, some publishers felt who was going to buy it, which is the challenge, I think, and I think you both know far better than I do. But from what I can understand is the challenge of writing something that it's not totally reinventing the wheel. There's books about pregnancy and pregnancy complications and infertility and pregnancy loss. So it fits within that group, but it's a different kind of a take. And I think that it was challenging for my agent to show publishers that, no, there really is an audience for this. And that being said, I mean, it went at auction.
Rachel Somerstein [00:08:29]:
Like, there were multiple interests, which is wonderful. And the initial level of interest and meetings did not translate into, like, this place. This place. And it wasn't from the feedback my agent gave me. It wasn't because of, well, we don't think this is that well baked or, well, we don't think she can do it or she's not the right person. It was really. They were concerned about audience.
Bethany Saltman [00:08:52]:
I have so many questions. Well, so, first of all, I want to know, because this is something that comes up a lot. How do you build. You can use your comp section to really artfully build. Build a case for your book. So tell us how you did that.
Rachel Somerstein [00:09:06]:
So my agent really guided me to also expand my notion of comps to include, for instance, health justice books. I had not seen that, and it was really insightful, and I now see that. And to her credit, one of the first editors to respond with a lot of excitement about the book, did not have children, did not plan to have children, but responded to it from a health justice angle. And I think that was key to showing that there's an audience, not only from the way I was thinking about as an author, right. Of, like, you know, let's say mothers with a particular set of experiences, but broadly speaking, because it's what the book really does. Right. This is, like, real. It's not wishful thinking about what the book could be, but that, you know, we have to think about, let's say, for c sections, their practice disproportionately on black women compared with white women.
Rachel Somerstein [00:10:01]:
That's a whole area about which there's a lot written. Right. Like, disproportionate health impacts that the book could speak to as well.
Fran Hauser [00:10:10]:
Oh, I just love that. I love that positioning. Like, positioning is just. It's everything.
Rachel Somerstein [00:10:15]:
Yeah. And it also showed she really got.
Bethany Saltman [00:10:17]:
The book because you didn't want to go memoir y and, you know, like, prescriptive and all that kind of stuff. I mean, after you'd write a prescriptive memoir about c sections, but people get so stuck in a loop about wanting certain things out of books because that's what's hot or trendy. And so I love that you were clear. You found an agent who got it and figured out how to make it happen so that you ended up with an auction. It was a book at auction, and you got a deal.
Rachel Somerstein [00:10:48]:
Yeah, I'm so fortunate. And it doesn't always work like that. Yeah. I'm really grateful that not only she got it, the acquiring editor got it, too. And I think that the team I worked with understood earlier than I did what the book could be in terms of. Also, like, it says something about America. It's like, I'm using this very. The most common operation in the world and one of the most common operations in the United States to understand our culture better and our history.
Rachel Somerstein [00:11:18]:
And I wanted to do that, and I could not have articulated it at the proposal point. So they really saw that. And so that's like, the luck of the team.
Bethany Saltman [00:11:29]:
Well, it's so great, because what you're saying is that you had this proposal that you worked really hard on, but it wasn't even there yet, I should say.
Rachel Somerstein [00:11:37]:
Also my agent helped me a lot with a proposal that was a really long process. My proposal was in decent shape when I sent it out to people, including her, and then we revised it over a long period, probably about five months before she took it out to sail. And when I go look at it now, you know, the book has changed since then, too, and it's deeper and better researched. It was much better than what I had done on my own because of her vision.
Fran Hauser [00:12:07]:
It's just so wonderful to have an agent who's a true partner, you know, and who's really pushing you and helping you sharpen, you know, so much of it is like, the sharpening of it and just making it more compelling and, you know, really thinking about it. Thinking about the book as, of course, there's the art piece, but there's also the business piece. And so how. Right. How do we create this proposal that's, like, really marketable? Like, it's agents or that gets editors, like, really excited, you know? So when you find an agent who's willing to do that with you, it's everything, you know, when you were talking about writing the book, who were you picturing as? Who was the muse? Like, who were you picturing as the reader of the book? Because you have this, like, mom piece, and then you have, like, the health justice piece. So I'm really curious about, like, who were you writing it for?
Rachel Somerstein [00:13:01]:
So in the beginning, it was definitely, I was thinking of people like me who'd had an unplanned pregnancy complication, right. Which could be a c section. It could be something else that is really not pictured in the mass media. Like, that was a big thing for me when I was postpartum. I'm like, where are the c section stories? People, like, they're so common, but I don't see any of them. And that was very isolating for me. So I was thinking about moms in a similar position as I was reporting. I also started thinking about providers.
Rachel Somerstein [00:13:31]:
I felt my own empathy and kind of, like, understanding of the ecosystem of birth and medicine. It grew, really expanded, and I started thinking about what it would be like to be in a provider's shoes meeting a mom for the first time and seeing, let's say, some clinical signs or something and how the provider would respond. So I really opened up and health justice issues, too, right? Let's say, what is the difference of a provider meeting me? And I'm white skin, I'm a middle class person. I'm married, you can tell from my ring. Versus a provider meeting somebody like a woman of color who's maybe, you know, in her early twenties, right. Doesn't appear to be partnered, maybe is on public insurance. Even a provider who doesn't think of themselves as racist might have implicit biases. Right.
Rachel Somerstein [00:14:21]:
Or they wouldn't relate. Right? I don't relate in the same way or something like that. So I was thinking about how I could invite readers in, all of those readers, right? The younger mom of color or the older mom of color, the white, middle class woman, the provider, into this conversation about birth. And I think that made it for a better book because I wanted to be fair. And if I'm going to invite everybody in, I need to be fair, which means imagining this experience, these stories from all these different perspectives, even though the book is much more focused, I think, on the birthing person's perspective because I'm not a clinical provider.
Bethany Saltman [00:15:05]:
You know, we hear so much about platform and first time writers or second time writers, we get really worried about it and wrapped up in it. And, you know, I love a story like yours. You know, you're not a big social media person. You know, if someone just looked at your, quote, platform from what they could see, there's not a whole lot there. And yet you got a deal, a big five deal. You wrote a book that's been really well reviewed on NPR, etcetera. Tell us about your understanding of platform.
Rachel Somerstein [00:15:38]:
So I love this question because I was a little bit worried when I started working on the book proposal. I thought I didn't have a platform, but I was wrong. I wish I'd understood that better. You know, I'm also a professor. I have young children. What I didn't see that I do have, that's part of my platform is a lot of experience, public speaking. You know, I've been at my institution for a decade, but I've been in higher ed first. I was a part time instructor for 17 years.
Rachel Somerstein [00:16:05]:
I'm really used to explaining things to people, and I'm really used to listening and hearing people's questions. And that proved advantageous with interviews, and it's since proving advantageous with different kinds of events I'm being asked to do. But when I was reading about platform, that was, like, not part of the platform that I recognized or my contacts in higher ed. And then the other thing that I had that I didn't recognize is, you know, I've been writing. I've been doing journalism for 20 years. I used to write about art. I wrote about culture. I started writing about maternal mistreatment in about 2018.
Rachel Somerstein [00:16:44]:
So not that long ago, but I did have a lot of contacts, and that isn't exactly part of my platform in the sense of I wouldn't send them my book and be like, can you make a big deal about my book on social media? But I am able to ask them for advice. And I think that that's part of a platform, too. How do I be strategic? I'm never going to have 250,000 followers on Instagram. And that's okay. Another writer can, and that works for them. Realistically, I do have to get better at social media, too. So I can also recognize, like, the weaknesses, but nobody in my experience of putting this book out said anything to me about, like, your social media sucks. I was like, what should I be doing? And, you know, publisher.
Rachel Somerstein [00:17:28]:
My editors were like, well, you know, you might want to clean this up, or clean that up, you know, make sure your website's good to go. You know, even if I put a huge amount of time into trying to build a platform over the course of six months, a, it might not have worked, b, clearly wasn't where my heart was, and c, it wasn't my strength.
Bethany Saltman [00:17:45]:
This is music to my ears. It's really sending a message to so many people who have amazing books in them, people like you, people in academia, people who are journalists, people who have an amazing story to tell. This platform thing has become such a barrier, and it's just nothing true. Now, if you want, like, a huge financial thing, and, you know, but even that, like, more and more, I'm finding that that is not even true, necessarily. And the inverse, also, you can have a huge platform and not get a good deal. Or even worse, you have a huge platform, you get a huge deal, and your book tanks, and no one wants to touch you ever again.
Fran Hauser [00:18:26]:
Right.
Rachel Somerstein [00:18:27]:
And that there's a difference, I think. I said this to my publicist a few times. I didn't understand the assignment when it came to publicity in the beginning, and partly that's because I'm in a different industry, a non commercial industry, and partly it's like, I never did this before, so I didn't know. But you can still play a really important role in publicity even without a huge platform. Like, it's not. Publicity isn't just posting on social media. That can be part of it, and it should be. I think if I'd let my platform hold me back, I would be really sorry.
Bethany Saltman [00:18:59]:
Well, I'm so happy to hear that your agent and nobody even talked about it. We've had a couple interviews with really great authors who said the same thing. I think we're moving in that direction. I think a year ago, you know, that we might not have heard that so much, especially in, like, more literary, more scientific, more research based, you know, the prescriptive nonfiction world, I think, still requires a little bit more, but who knows? Hey, Bookbound ones, if you're loving this interview as much as we are, we think you'll want to join us for this very special, first of its kind. Read like a writer book club. What the heck is a read like a writer book club? I'm so glad you asked. This idea came to us after working with so many aspiring authors who were still reading books like a reader, liking this, not liking that. Instead of studying successful books for lessons in how to weave their own stories into clear structures or develop frameworks that really change people's lives.
Bethany Saltman [00:19:57]:
And we thought, hey, why leave so much learning on the table? Then we realized that we have this incredible archive of author interviews. Yes, this very podcast. And so we put it all together and said, hey, let's host a read like a writer book club. This is how it works. For the low price of $175, we'll meet once a month over Zoom for seven months. Our meetings will take place on Wednesdays at noon eastern time. We'll give you a list of books related podcast episodes to review and a simple reading guide. We'll meet up and discuss together and in small groups.
Bethany Saltman [00:20:31]:
Bran and I are so excited to get started. We love reading. We love you guys. And we love studying books with other women. Sign up at bookboundpodcast.com/club. We can't wait to see you there.
Fran Hauser [00:20:45]:
I think just debunking this, like, whole, like, misconception that platform equals social media, it's just not true. So much bigger than that. I would love to ask you. I mean, you talk about, like, being a professor and being a mom and doing all the things. How did you make the time to write?
Rachel Somerstein [00:21:07]:
I started the proposal in the winter ish of 2020. I had a new baby. My son was born in June 2020, and I worked that proposal nights and weekends, frankly, and I should say that I was fortunate. I'd already earned tenure, so I didn't need to be doing traditional peer reviewed scholarship. I could be working on this instead. But I was still teaching and caring for my family. And just like being a human, you know, I ended up, I took one year of sabbatical from my job to devote to it, and that still wasn't long enough. So I would work early in the morning, I would work at night.
Rachel Somerstein [00:21:52]:
I would work on a weekend. You know, I would work weekend days. And it really meant saying no to a lot of things. And that was hard. And sometimes, I think, disappointing to my children. They would come and see me. I have a little office upstairs in our house, and they'd be wanting to hang out. And I'd say, okay, we can hang out for a minute, but I really have to do this.
Rachel Somerstein [00:22:16]:
And I think because I really believed in this book, that was how it was possible. Otherwise, I would have been like, why am I missing out on so many fun summer days? I was thinking, this summer, I'm still working a lot because of the book. Promotion. But, you know, I can go away for the weekend and really spend time hanging out. I can turn my computer off at 09:00 and be done. And, you know, thinking back to platform and all this, I mean, it's like in the end, you still have to write your book, you know what I mean? And you have to really want to write the book you're writing. Otherwise I think it would just be punishing, right.
Fran Hauser [00:22:54]:
Because so many other things need to get sidelined. So it's a really big decision.
Rachel Somerstein [00:23:01]:
And, you know, a very good friend of mine gave me this advice. In the beginning. She was like, you can't do your book and do other things. And at the time I was like, I can do my book and other things. Maybe other people can't, but I can. I am this master of doing all, everything at the same time. And I was so naive. And she was completely right.
Rachel Somerstein [00:23:21]:
And I didn't do any other journalism. I didn't do any other, you know, traditional scholarship. I just, I couldn't do anything else that wasn't actually possible. I didn't, like decorate my house, you know what I mean? Like all these other projects, fun projects, was just like, this will be later. I didn't work on my garden that much. You know, that's okay, that it was just a different season.
Bethany Saltman [00:23:42]:
And, you know, when a book is really taking over, that's a good thing. We want that as writers, as authors, you know, that's the unconscious saying, you know, this is the right project. So if that's not happening, I think it's absolutely like you said, it would be very punishing.
Rachel Somerstein [00:23:59]:
And how would you finish it? I mean, I really think, like, I've spoken to a few people who are in the middle right now. And it's like, yeah, if you don't want this book, how will you get it done? And it was like, to your point, it was a pleasure, I have to say, bethany, like, it was like, you know, I said no to a lot of things. That was like very negative response. But it was a total pleasure. Like, doing the research was so fun. Sometimes it was very frustrating to write, you know, but I really enjoyed working on the project.
Fran Hauser [00:24:24]:
The title is so brilliant. Invisible Labor. Was that always the title?
Rachel Somerstein [00:24:30]:
No, it wasn't. Originally the title was The Cut and that's how it sold. And then later my publisher was like, you know, we're concerned. This is a bit visceral and on the nose. What else could you do? And the assistant editor, I was working with Rachel Sargent at Echo, who's totally brilliant. She came up with the idea for Invisible Labor, and that's what we used. And it was so smart, and it also shows how, like, when you have a great team, the results are so much better than what you could do on your own. And I should say, like, one thing I think that's important about my journey is that the person who acquired my book left the imprint and halfway through the process, and I was not able to go with her.
Rachel Somerstein [00:25:12]:
And instead, my agent guided me to a different imprint, to echo with an editor who had initially wanted the book but ultimately wasn't able to make that happen. And I was really nervous about that because I had one relationship with the acquiring editor who really believed in it, and the move was fantastic. I really think that it's because first part of it is good fortune, right? They were able to take me on, and it was still within HarperCollins. But also my agent really knows the industry, and she's really smart about, like, you know, this could be good. This could be a good move. So in a way, I feel like I got the best of both worlds. I got to work with the acquiring editor who had this understanding and vision, and then I got to work with my editors at Echo who also had an understanding and vision that was complementary to what the initial editor had seen, seen or suggested.
Bethany Saltman [00:26:08]:
Yeah, no, that's so good, because I think people don't understand. You know, you get the deal, and then, you know, the anxiety still persists. There are so many twists and turns, so many surprises, so many challenges. But it sounds like you had such a wonderful guide. I'm so happy for you.
Rachel Somerstein [00:26:25]:
Thank you. And I should say one other thing I wanted to say about how I got it done. I think this is really important, is that I made a schedule for myself of deadlines. So I was like, I need to finish, let's say, chapters four, five, and six. They have to be done by the end of the year. And there came a point where I was like, I'm running a little behind, but only by a couple of weeks. This is good. You know? When it became clear to me I couldn't make my initial deadline, I asked for an extension.
Rachel Somerstein [00:26:51]:
So making the deadlines, being realistic about when I could or could not meet them, and realizing when I could not meet them, it wasn't my fault. I was like, I actually just. I see now how long this is taking me. I can't make it happen any faster. I need another six months. And then I really was like, okay, there's no more extensions. I need to really have my schedule and follow it.
Fran Hauser [00:27:13]:
It's so good. And, you know, Bethany, you made me think about something earlier when you were talking about, you know, you get the deal and then there's still the anxiety. You know, you have to write the book. One of the things that I didn't realize as a first time author was that you don't get paid the advance all at once. Like, you get 25% and then you get your 2nd 25% when the manuscript is accepted. I never even understood, like, oh, wait a second. So the publisher could say that they don't like the manuscript and not accept it, right? And then you get the third 25% when, you know, the hardcover comes out, and then the final when the paperback. I just wanted to add that in because we've never talked about that on the podcast.
Fran Hauser [00:27:58]:
And this idea of like, no, you're not getting the whole advance upfront.
Rachel Somerstein [00:28:02]:
And the way it worked for me was I asked for half upfront because I was going on one year of half salary. It still wasn't enough to cover all of my expenses for the book. And then they did the second two. They split them, one on acceptance and one on publication of the hard copy hardcover copy. But on acceptance, I thought that would be. Here's my first draft. I turned in my first draft the end of May of last year. We had to go through the legal read, and I didn't receive that accepted payment until January.
Bethany Saltman [00:28:35]:
Can you describe for our listeners what the legal read is?
Rachel Somerstein [00:28:38]:
Oh, sure. So the lawyers from my publisher went through the book and basically read it with the eye of what could be litigated and asked me to make a couple of changes to make certain things less identifiable. And there were certain cases I wrote about that didn't pertain to me, that we kept an eye on. And that came at the very, very end when there were not going to be any other significant changes. And I really was happy to have somebody do that because I'm not looking to initiate any legal recourse from this book.
Fran Hauser [00:29:20]:
Okay. So, Rachel, right now you are in the thick of marketing and promotion. Like, how is that feeling for you?
Rachel Somerstein [00:29:28]:
It's like a rollercoaster. You know, parts of it are really fun. I love talking about the book. I really love, actually, this conversation, like, talking about the mechanics, because I think it's so useful and interesting. And I heard from some readers these really meaningful, amazing notes and questions. And so that is wonderful. The heat of it has passed a little bit in terms of I'm not doing the pitching. I was doing a lot of pitching, and now I'm pitching a lot less, and I'm a little relieved because it felt very, very urgent.
Rachel Somerstein [00:30:03]:
It's a lot of work. I did not anticipate that. So one thing that's been a lot of work is, you know, I've written a couple of pieces, like companion pieces that's been challenging. And then also, you know, it's surprisingly challenging as I'm also doing some short reported pieces, and I haven't done anything like that in a long time. And that takes a special kind of energy. Even though I'm going back to some sources, I know I'm a very thorough reporter, so I'm not just sort of like, recycling. And it's a lot to be like, I'm pitching some stuff. I'm doing promotion.
Rachel Somerstein [00:30:37]:
I'm reporting. I'm writing some personal stuff. I'm doing interviews for substacks, starting those, too. Like, it's just a lot of different things. And I'm learning, and I'm like, what do I like? You know, that is different than being behind the desk. Do I like a meet and greet? Do I like doing an event? What kind of event do I like to do? Who do I want to be in conversation with? Now people are asking about, you know, different lectures and stuff in the fall, and I'm like, this is going to be a lot of work and a lot of time putting my energy out. And I'm also working on developing my next book idea. So that is exciting.
Rachel Somerstein [00:31:16]:
But I can't tend to that in the way that I would otherwise. And, like, these are great problems to have. Like, I'm so happy that I have a lot to do. It's awesome.
Fran Hauser [00:31:28]:
Well, it is. It's exciting because there's so much opportunity.
Rachel Somerstein [00:31:33]:
Yeah. And you don't even see that before the book comes out. Like, oh, this person's interested in doing a podcast. Oh, that's interesting. Or different people will reach out and be like, can we have a conversation? And you partly want to say yes to everybody. And also you're excited and people are excited. And then, like, you know, I've had a lot of people who are probably, like, two or three degrees separated from me. Like, ask a friend of a friend if they can talk about the publishing process.
Rachel Somerstein [00:31:56]:
I want to demystify it. Like, that's, I'm very open about money, about stuff. Like, we should talk about this. And I also realized I'm like, I actually can't say yes to every person because I actually just don't have time.
Bethany Saltman [00:32:10]:
Well, that's why we love this podcast so much, because everybody wants to have the same conversation. Really, really interesting for people who want to become writers, and it's very opaque, very mysterious. And for us bookish nerds, we could talk about this all day. So are you going to tell us a little hint about what the next book is?
Rachel Somerstein [00:32:30]:
Yes. I'm really interested in doing something sort of similar about the history of herbalism. So I think about how herbal remedies are very popular, and particularly among women, to address issues that the pharmaceutical industries don't address. And on the other hand, these things are not like, they can't actually be standardized, right? Like, that's sort of the way herbal medicine works, and so it's hard to run clinical trials. So is there evidence that it's really effective, or is it just placebo? Or is it wishful thinking? And then there's also, like, the element of buying snake oil. Right. Like, we don't want to be taken advantage of, but grounded a little bit in my experience of after my son's birth, my second child in 2020, I developed, like, a chronic mastitis, which is like a chronic infection, breast infection, and I couldn't stop making milk enough to wean him. I was hospitalized for antibiotic resistant mastitis, and I went to see his doctor, and I was like, is there a pill I can take to just turn off the milk? You know, like, what can I do? And she was like, no.
Rachel Somerstein [00:33:43]:
And actually, most of the research into mastitis is among cows, right. Because they produce milk for sale. It's very little research on humans and mastitis, women specifically. Right. And the research about breast milk is usually about, like, you're under producing, like, you know, this lens of inadequacy as opposed to overabundance, which is a problem. And I couldn't believe it. In the end, I used things that were. There's some evidence for them, but it was like this kind of weird concoction of traditional chinese medicine and sage and working with a lactation consultant.
Rachel Somerstein [00:34:19]:
And I was like, it's easy to also lose your perspective of what's real when you're going through something like this.
Bethany Saltman [00:34:25]:
That's amazing. I love a writer's mind. I just love when you're in the thick of something. And like you said, you don't always know how real is this? Because I'm in it to just, like, watch the threads. Oh, that's so exciting and delightful.
Rachel Somerstein [00:34:42]:
Yeah. Thank you.
Fran Hauser [00:34:44]:
Oh, my goodness. So, Rachel, as we wrap up, and I feel like we could talk to you for forever. Is there one piece of advice that you can share with our listeners? You know, especially people that are listening that have an idea for their first book and they're not really sure what to do. Maybe they're feeling a little bit stuck.
Rachel Somerstein [00:35:03]:
I think that writing an essay is probably the best thing, or maybe it's a piece of reportage that would resemble the kind of thing you might want to do. Because then you will first see if there's there for yourself and for a market, and it'll give you a chance to get familiar with some of the ideas and the people in the landscape of your book, potentially. And then it would, if you decide to develop the book proposal, it gives you something you can send out with your proposal that shows, I can do this, I have done it.
Fran Hauser [00:35:40]:
Take a look and people are reading it. Right? You're validating the idea. Right?
Rachel Somerstein [00:35:44]:
Exactly. And here's my voice. Right. Here's my way of writing about this. And here are the kinds of people I'm going to bring in as sources and how I'm going to structure it and the ideas. I think that also that can make it seem the process of writing a book less intimidating, because then you can remind yourself, like, I'm doing this again, but on a much bigger scale.
Fran Hauser [00:36:07]:
Well, right. Because an essay is just, it's lower stakes, it's lower effort, it's lower energy. You know, it's all of that. And at the same time, you're getting all this amazing feedback. Right. And also seeing like, okay, I really think there's a lot more here. This can be a book. So I love that as a first step.
Fran Hauser [00:36:27]:
We're so grateful to you. Thank you for making the time to be with us. I feel like I learned so much. I'm sure that our listeners are going to learn a ton as well. And what's the best way, Rachel, for everyone to stay connected with you.
Rachel Somerstein [00:36:43]:
So you could go to my website, which is just my name, rachelsomerstein.com, and you can sign up for a newsletter, which I'm going to send out. Not to spam people, but just to be like, here's where I'm going to be over the next few months. And I am posting on Instagram and Twitter, so you can look there, too. But probably my website and a newsletter is the best way.
Fran Hauser [00:37:03]:
Amazing. Well, thank you. And best of luck with the second book. We're excited.
Rachel Somerstein [00:37:08]:
Thank you so much.
Bethany Saltman [00:37:11]:
Thank you for joining us on .
Fran Hauser [00:37:13]:
If you like what you heard, please subscribe and rate and review us on your favorite podcast listening platform.
Bethany Saltman [00:37:21]:
Please visit us at bookboundpodcast.com for more on us and how we work as authors.