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You are a business owner who wants to prioritize people and planet over profits (without sacrificing success). That can feel lonely—but you are not alone! Join host Becky Mollenkamp for in-depth conversations with experts and other founders about how to build a more equitable world through entrepreneurship. It’s time to change the business landscape for good!
Becky Mollenkamp (00:00.962)
Hello, we're back at it. Continuing the series that we've been doing the last couple of weeks around the Feminist Founders framework, vision, leadership, culture, systems. And now we're gonna talk about the fifth, which is disruption or conflict change basically. And this is the one that initially when we talked about this, this was my only sort of sticky point where I was like, no, it's just the other four because these things are gonna be inside of each of those.
and you felt strongly about it being its own thing, which I definitely came around to and fully agree with now, but you want to talk a little bit about why you feel like it needs to be its own element instead of just something that's included inside of the other elements.
Faith Clarke (00:40.086)
Yeah, I think that, it's, it's always interesting to me how much our discomfort kind of causes us to not disrupt things. Right. And so we're here as feminist founders with a whole different framework about how to do business. And I think we have to come to peace with, yeah, it's going to feel awful in some moments. I'm going to come up against things that feel like almost life and death to me.
And when I'm coming up with that internally, how do I navigate that? This feels really important because if I project it onto other people, if I, you know, do the kind of hand it down and everybody, you know, the person at the bottom ends up kicking the cat. I know I have to figure out. Okay, good. If the person at the end ends up kicking the cat, you know, that kind of stream of projection, I have to own.
that my discomfort and how I handle it affects so many more people than just me. And then externally, like with it, between two people, we just talked about systems, we talked about collaborating and creating systems. And in this collaboration, we're going to have an experience with difference. And if we are not at peace with our own, like what causes discomfort for us, then we'll pull the rack. We'll, lean into our power identities.
and kind of double down. And then our methods of navigating conflict through all systems have been, what I say, or al acquiesce. And neither of those are co-creating the preferred future. So this whole thing of disruption keeps us where we are and creates things that we don't want. And so we have to just be present with it.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:27.436)
Yeah, and it's just so ever present and so important if you're going to try and change systems because there is just no way to do it without feeling this, that it did feel important enough that it's like, it needs to be its own piece of this framework that it gets the attention it deserves because otherwise it feels like you're sort of just kind of, you know, dismissing the importance of it when you're just sort of putting it inside of the others. it's kind of it doesn't give it the
importance that it needs. So I totally came around and was like, yeah, we need it on as its own thing. So when we talk about disruption and discomfort, there is like you mentioned the internal and then kind of the external, right? The internal as solopreneurs, often we learn that we have to navigate that. Sometimes it's people talk about mindset and things like that, but it's that internal battle that we often face when we're trying to challenge systems, the things of like imposter syndrome that comes up or
the fear that stops us, the fight, fight, fawn responses, those sorts of things. And then the external, which even if you're a solopreneur, there's the external, it's how you deal with your clients, how you deal with communities outside of you, consultants, anyone, right? Like there's, even if you are a solopreneur, even the most introverted solopreneur, you are still inside of and in collaboration with and in community with others when you're running a business. There's just no way not to be, or you're not selling anything.
So, right? So let's start with the internal first, just because it seems like, I think in my experience anyway, I have a hard time being in right relation with others if I'm not first in right relation with myself. And so I think often this work is internal and then out, because if we can't be with ourselves and learn how to deal with these issues for ourselves, it's really hard to deal with others. So when you think about dealing with that discomfort that comes up as a solopreneur, for me,
One of the first things that I think has been helpful is the piece of self-compassion, of understanding that it's not always like, reducing shame. It's not like I am bad. I am doing my best inside of flawed systems. And that will inherently be challenging because the systems are broken. So of course it's gonna be hard. It's gonna be difficult. I'm coming up against things that don't feel right because they aren't right.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:51.148)
Right? And my reaction to that may be challenging. It may be to feel really uncomfortable. It may be to feel really bad. And that's normal. I think the more I can normalize that it's hard to exist inside of flawed systems and that that's not about me, it's a systems issue, not a me issue, that often starts to help me navigate through some of that discomfort. Like that's been the best starting point for me anyway. Because I think too often we respond to discomfort.
many of us anyway, start to make it a shameful thing. Like, why can't I figure this out? What's wrong with me? Why am I feeling this way when other people seem to be okay? And I think nothing good comes from that shamey space. So that's one of the places I like to start. For you, when you think about the internal discomfort, what comes up is like the stuff that matters most in shifting how your relationship with discomfort looks.
Faith Clarke (05:43.916)
Yeah, I think I tend to focus on my ability to separate out a series of responses that can feel really fast. You know, a person shows you something and you think, God, I thought this person was competent. And in between the showing me the thing and that response, even the thought response, is a series of things. And I try to...
break that down for myself and slow myself down. So the primary technique there is just to build the pause in and to build the pause in, in situations where it doesn't matter so that I can start to understand. I'm having a ton of background noise. hope it's not anyway. So I tried to build the pause in in situations where it doesn't matter so that I can begin to understand me and how I react to things. Right. So,
When I, if I break that down, I saw something, I felt something in my body. Back to our conversation in the previous time about honoring our body. I felt something in my body. What did I feel? Where did I feel it? Did I tighten my jaw? Did I compress my head? Did I, what did I do? What was happening? And then what was the thought I had when I felt that feeling?
Did I interpret that feeling as, was that disappointment? Was that fear? Was that, right? Before I even get to this other person and what they handed to me, I need to kind of be up close with what's going on for me. So I might be, I was really depending on this image to make me some money because I have the rent I need to pay or the mortgage or the kid's tuition. And so now I'm just like, my goodness, this is, I'm farther away from this money than I thought I was. And I'm really feeling desperate.
That's really, that's wisdom there. Okay, good. So I need to do some tending to myself and this desperation and then I can bracket it. And so practicing this really granular self-knowing so that I can know, when it's money stuff, I tend to get really uptight in my shoulders and I, know, versus when it's stuff to do with my kids, I feel that in my belly and that's my mama bear kind of getting activated.
Faith Clarke (08:08.296)
And it's not this client's fault where they're triggering my mouth, you know? And I think, so for me, it's a really granular thing that allows me to know the difference between the story I'm telling and what's actually happening. And in so many situations, I've seen professional, know, like EDs and managers will say, this person is so unprofessional. And you and I have a whole thing about unprofessional, but...
When I'm decoding that unprofessional with a person, something happened, they felt uncomfortable, they probably felt challenged, they either felt their knowledge was being challenged, or felt disrespected. There's some series of things happening that resulted in this whole, this person is unprofessional. Before they even get to what the person is doing, it's so powerful to know what's going on for you. You you're thinking I'm 54 and I'm still in this job dealing with these people who don't respect me.
Why do you think they don't respect you? Yeah, because my ex-husband didn't respect me. We have so much life that we're living and I think that intimacy with that is where I tend to start, but on a physiological level, what's going on? We push down, by the way, the body so much that we don't even know we're feeling discomfort. Like we've gone straight to, no, this is just a clinical analysis. It's clearly incompetent.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:18.093)
again.
Faith Clarke (09:29.784)
completely missing that my stomach is churning, my shoulder is tight and my jaw is clenched.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:34.926)
Well, you mentioned the word story in there. I think so often we without that pause, without the self-awareness, we do we just go to this automatic, my story is facts. This is truth. Right. And it may be truth in that it's the truth of what I'm experiencing, but it doesn't make it facts of this is an undeniable fact of what is real, right.
because the person on the other side of that story has their own experience of the story. And even when it's a story that doesn't have two people, it's just me and my experience of the world, we start to believe our stories are facts. And so that person was rude to me or, you know, I'm gonna not be able to feed my kids this month because I didn't make enough money and now I'm in panic mode. And we believe that story is true before we actually examine, that truth? Will you not be able to feed your kids? Are there not other options? Is there not?
Is there not enough food to make it through the month? Is there not resources out there you might be able to access? Do you not have a community that could care for you? Whatever. We just immediately believe whatever story our brain tells us. Going back to the amygdala that you mentioned in the last episode, it's like this fear response that's there to protect us, right? It's always there for a reason, trying to protect us. But unfortunately, sometimes the ways the brain tries to protect us are actually not very helpful. And so...
I love the idea of the pause. I've always talked to clients about practicing the pause for that same reason that we need to pause, breathe, take a moment to do the work of what is the story my brain's telling me here? What evidence do I have that supports that? And what evidence may contradict that? And sometimes that can be challenging to do alone because we are so caught up in the story and we often are just
fighting to keep that story to be truth. We want it to be true so badly and we need others to help us maybe do a little unpacking. But doing it internally for yourself, learning those skill sets, like you said, learning to practice the pause when you don't even need it so that when you do, you can grab for it and actually use it. Because if we aren't, if we don't have that skill set developed in the easiest of times, there's no way we'll pull for it in the hardest of times. And the hardest of times, we're going to revert to what comes easy.
Faith Clarke (11:18.254)
Thank
Becky Mollenkamp (11:47.776)
And so I think that's important.
Faith Clarke (11:47.83)
Yeah, think there's something about the activation when we're, when something is going on that reduces our access to the mind and the body that makes the best decisions in that moment. And so I, I mean, I'm really good at no separating from my, myself and the story I'm making. What I'm working on now is even does the story even matter because
If I can become aware in the moment when I start to be activated and regulate myself, I have access to the mind that will be clearer and tell a different or better story than the mind that is dysregulated, fearful, and therefore telling.
the familiar story, the one from when I was six that I have kept holding that thread off, right? And so I'm good at knowing what the story is. can quickly, yeah, that's my abandonment stuff. Yeah, that's my invisibility stuff. But it doesn't really matter. What matters is I'm tightening up my shoulder and I know how to untighten the shoulder. I actually know how to regulate my body while I'm in conversation with people. And if I don't, I should learn that. How do I access, a friend of mine, a colleague said,
that you have access to different memories in different brain states. So if your brain is in a beta state, you have different memories than if you are in a theta state or if you're in a delta state, that's why you lose memory of your dreams. It was a fun conversation. And so what's the brain state that helps me be able to navigate what's actually happening here? I need to know myself enough to know how to get back there. And so a colleague of mine just says,
We have, we are constantly in the business of changing our bodies to fit what we need. So if you can be intentional about knowing how your body is changing, it's going into fight flight, how do I regulate it? Bring it back to what's needed. And that's our leadership responsibility, to show up with the body that is best able to move our desire for equity and justice forward.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:01.42)
And you know, I think everyone probably has different relationships with what works for them or doesn't and that can evolve over time. I know for me, like, whereas you feel like, you know, it doesn't matter to me so much, whether this is about that abandonment issue or whatever else, I just need to know, like, can I relax my shoulders in this moment? I am the kind of person who it helps me to get in touch with what is the story here. And because it helps me then be able to say, this isn't that, I'm safe here.
Right. This isn't about that abandonment. This is this is not happening when I was six. This is happening now. I'm safe here. And only once I can get to that place can I then access the ability to be able to say, OK, relax your shoulders, relax your jaw. Right. Because otherwise I am still very wound up in the believing the story of, no, this is they're going to leave me. They're going to hurt me. Whatever. I have to be able to like acknowledge that this is about that trauma.
and that this moment of what's happening isn't that before I'm able to access what I need to be able to release my jaw, to relax my shoulders, to be present and to let that peace go. So I think you have to figure out what works for you. But understanding that very often our immediate response is not at all about what's going on in this moment. It is about stuff that happened long ago. And now our job, like you said, as leaders, but also just as like good humans who want to be in right relationship with others is to be able to.
be present minded and to be able to be with this situation and allow for that discomfort to be happening because also that discomfort can be happening while I still have to be engaging with someone else. And I have to be able to be in that discomfort and continue to show up. And so what does that look like? And I think, and this has always been interesting to me too, I have found that when I am in spaces primarily with white women, there is a general consensus often.
that there is discomfort with discomfort. White women often don't like conflict, right? We have been conditioned to be afraid of conflict, to avoid conflict. And I used to, long ago, believe that was more of a universal woman experience. And what I have learned over time from being in rooms with women who are not white women, who are black women, brown women, who have told me more often than not.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:19.638)
I don't share that discomfort with conflict. That is not an experience that I understand. So don't say that is women are uncomfortable with conflict because that's more of a white women experience. And so that has been interesting for me to learn too, because I used to sort of feel like that was a universal woman experience and it's not necessarily, but for those of us who are part of our role in leadership is to learn to get comfortable with conflict because too often what people will say as a sign of a good culture is that there's no conflict. No one's fighting.
And that's actually not a sign of a culture, right? Because that means people are afraid, they don't feel safe to be able to show their discomfort, to have conflict. And so conflict is an important part of culture. So if you're someone like me, who is afraid of conflict, we have to learn how to be with conflict in order to create an actual healthy culture. I, you know, that may not, there may be other people for whom being in conflict is not as scary.
And so that piece isn't something they have to navigate as much. But certainly if your experience is more like mine, then you have to learn how to be with discomfort. And that starts with being your own discomfort, learning how to be with your own discomfort and just like be compassionate to yourself to say, feel uncomfortable right now, but I don't have to run from that. I can be with it and I can function with it. And that can be really challenging for a lot of people. So I just wanna speak to that piece I think comes first for a lot of us who don't even have that skill yet before we can learn how to be.
in conflict with others.
Faith Clarke (17:48.716)
Yeah, I think that I don't think there's anybody who feels good when there is conflict. But the privilege of being able to avoid it is it's a privilege, right? Because the conflict for many people with multiple marginalized identities, the conflict comes to you. You cannot avoid it, you know, and a certain amount of acquiescing has led to further harm.
And so there is the skill of standing up for yourself or whatever. But I don't think there's anybody who will feel good with conflict. I do think that depending on what's happened in our lives and ancestrally, we have ancestral stories that show up. And so part of my own work right now, some of the stories have a long tail.
and require lots of processing. And like you said, in the meantime, I'm in this present moment with you right now. And I don't have the time to go and dialogue with six year old Faith. Yeah, later. Right now, I do need to release my shoulder and I do need to show up and be present in this moment. Because the stories do have a long tail and are self...
that kind of self-sustaining because we're in the environment that reinforces the stories. So I have been in conflict navigation situations supporting healthier conflict navigation where a white person and a black person are in conflict. And the story is being maintained just by the very presence of their bodies and the ability to kind of know what's true for you even in the face of what's contextually true.
and just kind of tend to that and then be present is just essential in this time where we are reaping the harm of multiple generations of bad things, you know? And so I do kind of lean into the given all of that, my stories, my past, ancestral stuff. What's my, how do I kind of learn?
Faith Clarke (20:04.888)
to give myself some space and then navigate this present moment as a fully regulated individual and then go break furniture if that's what's needed or cry or talk the story through or whatever.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:19.404)
Yeah, it's so funny how so many things about business and maybe it's just where I'm at in my parenting journey. But how many times when we talk about business, it makes me think about parenting as well. And not in a way that I'm trying to infantilize, like people that we're in relationship with, but that, you know, as a parent, there is a role that you have with the relationship with your child that looks different than the relationship you would have with your best friend or your partner or, you know, many other people.
And I think often that is what it looks like to be a leader inside of a business. It's not about because I think too often in parenting, we also think of it as hierarchical and that is not always healthy for in any relationship, including parenting. So it's not that it's I am above these other people, but my role is different than their role inside of this relationship. And so my role as a parent with my child is different than their role with me. And I am there is an obligation to shield them from certain things.
I don't need my child to take on the weight of my discomfort, right? I need to help them manage their discomfort. And then I need another space, perhaps with my partner, where I go and manage my discomfort. And I feel similar in that relationship with an employee or a client. It is not the client's responsibility to manage my discomfort. It is not my employee's responsibility to manage my discomfort. I can have other spaces where I take that to do that. Inside of this relationship where I am trying to help set the culture, I need to show up a certain way.
I think sometimes when we think about decolonizing some of these issues around conflict navigation and leadership, we sometimes start to think, well, then I've seen it happen where it's like, well, we're all the same here then, right? So if we're getting rid of the hierarchical structures, then does that mean I show up and I cry in front of my employees and I let them take care of me and all of that? And that can sometimes become a challenge for people as well, is understanding if we're removing some of that hierarchy.
hierarchy that we're used to with roles and it's like, I'm up here, they're down here. I'm starting to say, no, we're all in this more circular relationship. What, how, when you think about discomfort and navigating that sort of thing, what do you see as the leadership role inside of that? Like, because you mentioned, maybe I take that elsewhere. Is that in a way in reinforcing hierarchy or is it just saying, you know, there are responsibilities that we each have and they look different inside of this relationship?
Faith Clarke (22:42.478)
I'm notorious for building high vulnerability spaces and high disclosure spaces. I don't think I need to process my stuff within a corporate place or whatever, but I feel really free to express it because I think that part of what we are not doing, and we use that as the leadership, it becomes a leadership burden.
is that, no, no, no, I am responsible for holding the space and making it safe for you all. And that's in no way reciprocal. And I'm like, no, actually, we're all humans having a human experience, and we all need to feel the ease of saying, hey, this is a human experience I'm having right now, and knowing that that won't be judged, including me, I'm human as the leader. And then also,
We're all responsible for our own regulation. then communally, we're responsible for co-regulation and communal understanding and repair. So it's like we're all kind of holding these multiple pieces. And I think the leadership role is to monitor for when that's going awry. So it's like, are we in more disclosure than we need given the time and the goal for this time?
are we not having enough disclosure? And maybe I need to pause the meeting and say, hey, let's talk about this thing. So that's my leadership role. while with children, I do feel the responsibility to shield, I think that our desire to shield our employees is hierarchical and supremacist. So I can be having a human experience. It's like I am. The same way I can say,
I'm a visual person, need pictures, I need it to be modeled. Don't just tell me the instructions, because I'm going to lose the pattern. have to, if I can say that, then why can't I say I'm PMSing? Right? But so it's like allowing ourselves to have a full human experience with each other and to be held, think is part of, too much conflict shows up because we're hiding all of that. And so I have no capacity. My son's been up until
Becky Mollenkamp (24:56.863)
Mm-hmm.
Faith Clarke (25:01.42)
you know, four in the morning, I've slept for two hours. I'm not snapping at you instead of asking for grace. Like I'm on two hours sleep. so I don't think I can be fully present in this conversation because I'm, my nerves are just twitchy. You know, I try to hide that. I take my twitchy nerves into the conversation with you and then I, you know, harm you and myself, you know, and so.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:22.604)
Yeah. Well, and I think there's in any relationship and any space, it's also important to and these are things that can be messy. And sometimes we get it wrong. But it's important to know, is this the right place for this? And it's not because of my leadership role or hierarchical stuff, but because this is trauma stuff I should be doing with a therapist. Right. So like, it's just noted and starting to learn what is appropriate in this type of relationship. It's less because I'm your boss and you're my employee, but because
I don't need to dump this kind of stuff onto anyone who's not my therapist or maybe my closest partner or something, right? But when you get, was that?
Faith Clarke (25:57.826)
Back to the culture. Like what kind of culture are we creating here? And in one place, you might be creating a culture where you are processing trauma stuff with each other for the first half an hour of the group meeting. I had a client who, all of them were social workers and therapists, and they never supported each other with the very skills that they support the clients with. And I'm like, why not? So I think once we've decided
And I think this is the power of what we're saying. Instead of all systems deciding for us, we can decide what kind of work community we're creating and what happens in the space and what's normal in this space. And then we can put the processes in place to just kind of normalize that and make that be okay.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:42.156)
Yeah. Well, that's where those processes and systems are important. And the last piece I wanted to touch on, because you just mentioned it too, is like, sometimes we'll get it wrong. And that can be where conflict comes up as well. Like I've messed up. Now what? And learning how to navigate harm repair and restorative harm repair when, especially as a leader, when you've messed up is so, so, so critical because if it's not modeled by you,
then that becomes a very big part of the culture. If it is modeled by you, then that can become part of the culture and learning how to, as a leader, not just say, well, this is the way it is because it is, or not being able to ever admit that you're wrong out of fear of being respected less or believed less or whatever it is. We have to learn what it looks like to model that kind of behavior where you show up and say, I got this wrong. I am sorry. Here's what I'm going to do so that this doesn't happen again.
or that hopefully it won't happen again, or if it does happen again, here's what, know, but being able to show up in that way. And this, think of all the things we've talked about is the piece, and maybe it's because it's the last piece here, it's the most, perhaps the most mature part of this experience, is the piece that I see people still again and again getting wrong, where they cannot bring themselves to admit they've made a mistake. And even if they do, they don't.
do a good job of it, right? They show up and say like, I messed up, but you did this and you did that. And this is why, and this happened, not learning how to just say, I made a mistake. I am sorry. This is what I'm going to do.
Faith Clarke (28:24.642)
think this is one of those conflict navigation. It's one of those things that we should put in vision and write it out. Like when stuff happens, because I don't even know, you can have conflict with people, nobody making a mistake, because people are different. People are just different. And I heard a story about a therapist who had a client was triggered and didn't know what the trigger was. took them multiple sessions to figure out that the door knob,
on her office was the same door knob as was in the house that this person had as a child where they were abused. And we will have conflict because we are different and we have such different stories. And so expecting it as norm of human life together, it's the, how do I be with difference? And it's the, all the systems that have taught us that difference is threatening. I was reading recently about the Vulcan Star Trek, first generation Star Trek.
the Vulcan-like theory or ideology, infinite differences in infinite combinations. Like if we can actually be at peace, this is how we are navigating the world. We're infinitely different and we're gonna put that together in infinite ways so there is no way to have rules with it. And we're gonna kind of, because we can't know infinite differences, we just can't know. We will hit upon somebody's stuff. So then,
How do I imagine that happening and really vision that out and really write that out? And some of the work I've done with organizations is just to write out a skeletal conflict navigation pathway. And that means if other people feel some kind of way, like not even done anything wrong, but somebody feels some kind of way because of something I did, what's the process? Like, you know, what do you say? Like we were even in a group where somebody says, why don't we use oops, ouch? And like I, somebody said, you know, somebody says something and somebody else says ouch.
And then I know, I said something and you say, oops, do you want us to talk about that? You know, so building in back to the processes, ways of normalizing the presence of difference and how we each respond to it and then giving ourselves the space either know or later to dialogue on it and come up with agreements, collective agreements on, in this case, I didn't, okay, I am so sorry. And you know, and just making that be a normal pattern so that this person
Faith Clarke (30:50.338)
who found out that they screwed up whatever way that happened, isn't trying to come up with a way. Like we have as a community, multiple ways that we engage with difference and it's just normal. Nobody needs to feel judged or shamed because we're infinitely different and there are infinite combinations of that difference.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:57.015)
Right.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:12.14)
I mean, again, I learned from my kid and his experience of the world all the time just because it's so much more pure and not yet, he's young enough still that it's not deeply tarnished by all of these systems. And just even in like his first grade classroom, they had a system in their classroom for conflict navigation. They learned what they call kind of like your oops ouch, it was a bug and a wish. It bugs me when I wish we'd, right? So like it bugs me when.
you make that noise. I wish you would be quieter while I'm reading, whatever. Right now, that wouldn't be necessarily the way I would approach it because I prefer iLanguage a bit more than that, but still they had a system that all 20-something of them in the classroom knew. They learned it early, it was repeated often, it was displayed, they understood the process, and they learned the language. And I saw my child use the language because he learned it.
and he knew it and they all did it. And there was this like understanding with each other that then when someone set a bug in a wish, it wasn't a how dare you do that. It was a like, OK, that's what we've decided here. So now I know and I get to make a choice of how I deal with what you've now shared with me. And it's so simple. And yet we don't see it replicated as we get older, right? We lose those skills that I see happening all the time and young with younger kids and.
I don't know that we, I think we think we have evolved beyond what we need at eight years old or six years old. But the truth is we haven't and we don't. And we still need people thrive on structure. They need structure. They need systems so they understand how to show up. As I heard Brene Brown say, I don't know if she was the first to say it, but clarity is kindness. Being unclear is unkind. We need that clarity.
just tell me how you want me to show up and then I know what to do. But when there is nothing that tells me what's expected, if I were to show up inside of a meeting with a bug and a wish and you didn't know it, you'd be like, it might rub you the wrong way. be like, I don't care what bugs you and how dare you. And like, that's me or whatever. But if we had all agreed, this is the language we'll use. It removes all of that. It's not no longer like, it doesn't feel like this personal attack or something. It just feels like, you're using the system we've agreed to. And now I know how to behave and thank you.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:22.114)
Right, we become appreciative of that. So anyway, I love that and I just think it's so important and we don't do enough of it.
Faith Clarke (33:29.164)
And culture, one element of culture is meaning making, right? Something that you do in one culture is interpreted in one way because that's how it is in that culture. And so when we're designing cultures within our organizations, we are designing the meaning making, you know? So we're saying, hey, all together, when stuff happens and we feel some kind of way, how do we want to do it? And we're designing something that is going to be adaptable to the actual we, right? Because when Becky leaves,
And then faith joins, there is a, what is this way and what would work now with faith on the team, you know, it worked with Becky, but does it still work with faith and how do we co-create what will work? And if we continue to trust in our ability to create what we all need together, then we'll just keep shifting it and evolving it and morphing it and adapting it, you know, in restorative ways versus, you know, top down or kind of.
put on or whatever it is.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:30.178)
Yeah. Well, we are going to be back next week to talk a little bit about what this looks like in practice, like taking all of what we've discussed and talking about in practice. And I think one of the things we should talk about is that because I don't know if we discussed it enough in these conversations is like when you decide you want to implement all this, what does it look like when you bring the collective together from the beginning, from vision through all of this? What does that look like? So we'll come back next week and we'll talk more about what this looks like in practice and also tell you about something we've been cooking up.
for people who want to really dig deep into these things. So we'll be back next week to share more and until then have a wonderful day and learn to like practice the pause be with your own discomfort.
Faith Clarke (35:11.744)
Absolutely, it's the biggest gift you can give yourself.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:14.766)
green.