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Rivr Conversations is a podcast inspired by Brent Drever’s Rivr Notes—a newsletter that sparks reflection and offers practical insight. In each short episode, expert Rivr Guides unpack the latest note, exploring themes of leadership, performance, and wellness. If you’re seeking grounded wisdom in under 20 minutes, you’re in the right place.
Today's conversation is about what it really takes to reach big goals, the kind that don't happen overnight, but over years. It's inspired by Brent's Rivr Notes post Crossing the Finish Line. We'll explore why determination often looks ordinary, how setbacks show up right when you're closest to the goal, and how choosing to keep going through delays, distractions, and late night detours can make crossing the finish line one of the sweetest victories. I'm Andy, your Rivr Conversations host and part of the AI team working alongside Brent, the creator of Rivr Notes and this podcast. Rivr Conversations is an extension of Brent's popular weekly newsletter, Rivr Notes.
Andy:Each week, two of our expert Rivr Guides sit down to reflect on the latest note, sharing insights, takeaways, and stories that explore leadership, performance, and wellness in a grounded, thoughtful way. With that in mind, let's step into the river and hear what our guides uncovered in this week's journey.
Reed:Today, we're, embarking on a really compelling exploration. It's all about long term determination. Our source material for this deep dive, it's a powerful personal account, titled Crossing the Finish Line. It unpacks this decade long personal goal Brent had and the, well, the unexpected often kind of messy journey to actually get there. Our mission today really is to distill what true perseverance looks like, especially when life decides to throw its most inconvenient curve balls, you know, and how these insights will, they can be applied to any significant goal you might be pursuing, whether that's personal growth or say a tough project at work or even just building a new habit.
Reed:Okay. Let's unpack this.
Lena:Yeah. And what's truly fascinating in crossing the finish line is how Brent frames his pursuit. It's not just about achieving, you know, a specific athletic objective. It's presented more as this profound decade long lesson in, well, the very essence of persistence itself. He gets into themes of adapting to setbacks.
Lena:And often they're minor things. Right? But they add up. Cumulatively impactful. And he really reveals the, the unglamorous, often unseen side of genuine determination.
Lena:It's a really compelling narrative about how the cumulative effect of these seemingly small choices day after day ultimately defines our capacity to reach a finish line that maybe once seemed almost impossible.
Reed:And the origin of this goal, it starts over a decade ago. Brent had just moved into a mountain community, signs up for this local trail running race, the 10 k at 10,000 feet. Now, for anyone not familiar running at 10 ks, that's what about 6.2 miles at 10,000 feet altitude is, it's a serious challenge. The air's thin makes every step harder, right? So Brent being new to it all, he opts for the shorter, maybe more comfortable five ks.
Reed:And he talks about this slightly, humorous kind of embarrassing part. Well, the 10 ks starting line was packed, you know, serious runners. The five ks group was sparse, just him and about five other people made him feel a bit cheap as she says, but then right there, amid this slightly awkward start, something really pivotal happens. See, most runners, Brent included, they take a gondola up to the mountain top for the race start. Makes sense.
Reed:Yet, Brent notices this one guy who actually biked all the way up the mountain, just casually leans his bike against a tree, walks over to the 10 k line, then just takes off like a shot. And get this, he doesn't just run the grueling 10 k, he places second, misses first by mere seconds.
Lena:Wow. So Brent's curiosity naturally was piqued. He goes up to the runner afterward, asks him, did you really just ride your bike all the way up here before running that race? And the runner just laughs, replies, yeah, my transition wasn't great, which impacted my run. So what Brent soon finds out is this wasn't just some, you know, super fit local guy, this was an Xterra world champion.
Lena:And just to clarify for everyone listening, Xterra, it's this really demanding off road triathlon. Open water swim, mountain biking, trail running, often in really rugged terrain. So this champion, he was one of the best in the world at the very sport Brent had only like secretly, tentatively begun to dream about, this chance encounter, you know, witnessing someone operating at such an elite level, even if the goal seemed almost mythical to Brent then, it undeniably planted a powerful seed. And this does raise an important question, doesn't it? How often are our most significant life goals, the ones that maybe define a decade or more of our lives?
Lena:How often are they sparked by something unexpected? Just seeing someone embody a level of mastery we aspire to, even if we don't fully realize it at that exact moment, it seems like it's often less about some grand plan and more about an inspiring spark.
Reed:Right. And as Brent reflects so wisely in crossing the finish line, the thing about those kinds of seeds, sometimes they take a long, long time to grow. For him, it literally took more than a decade to finally train, overcome all the obstacles, show up, and cross that Xterra triathlon finish line. He wasn't setting records, you know, or joining the elite ranks, but he had finished something he set in motion all those years ago. That's huge.
Reed:Okay. But here's where it gets really interesting, I think, and where the source gives us some truly relatable insights. Just when you feel like you're almost there, right? Life decides to throw some truly inconvenient curveballs. Brett makes it clear it would be easy to wrap the story up neatly.
Reed:But the truth is, the road to any finish line fitness, a work project, life goals, it's rarely smooth. And his road to this particular race, oh, it had more than its fair share of potholes, especially in that crucial week leading up to it.
Lena:Oh, indeed. That week became this extraordinary test of Brent's resolve. It really demonstrates the true nature of what he calls ordinary determination. So hurdle number one came the night his oldest son, who he was helping move back to college, trips on the stairs, gashed his forehead, led to a late night ER visit, couple of stitches, and Brent getting maybe two and a half hours of sleep before their early morning flight. So much for being well rested for race week.
Lena:Right? It's often these kinds of unexpected, almost mundane disruptions that can prove more challenging than the big anticipated obstacles.
Reed:Exactly. And it certainly didn't stop there. Not even close. On his way back from dropping off his son, his flight gets delayed. Not once, not twice, four times.
Reed:He finally lands at 01:30 in the morning, knows his carefully planned pre race training schedule is completely shot. But what's fascinating here is his response, how he reacted. Instead of getting frustrated or just giving up on any physical activity for the day, he just walked the airport for two point five hours and covered six miles, weaving through concourses while other travelers are probably looking at him like, why is this guy doing laps at midnight? You get can almost picture it, can't you? This solitary figure, totally oblivious, just hitting his activity goal.
Lena:Yeah. And that airport walk, it isn't just about, you know, getting steps in. It's a micro example of finding agency, adapting when plans completely derail. It really highlights a core insight from the text. When life hands you these unexpected circumstances, you still have the choice how you respond.
Lena:You can either be a victim of circumstance or you find a way to proactively engage. Even if that engagement looks, well, utterly bizarre to everyone else, it shows that flexibility and just refusing to be completely derailed are key components of resilience.
Reed:And the curveballs just kept coming. The very next evening, his younger son cuts his finger making a sandwich. So off they go to urgent care again. And then that same night, his son is on his way to go camping with friends, calls Brent with a flat tire, alone, late at night, never changed a tire before. So instead of getting a full night's sleep before this major athletic event, Brent's evening plan suddenly shift to roadside assistance duty.
Lena:And Brent notes, you know, none of these individual events were catastrophic. Everyone was okay, life went on. But in the moment, each one felt like a significant derailment of his carefully laid plan. And this is precisely where Crossing the Finish Line offers its most potent insight, I think. It challenges our common ideas about determination.
Lena:We often think determination is about some heroic, unwavering grit, right? Or a dramatic sacrifice. Pushing through impossible odds with sheer force of will. But Brent's story challenges that perception. It shows us that most of the time, determination is about these small choices in the middle of ordinary chaos.
Lena:It's not always about grand cinematic gestures. It's about the quiet, often mundane persistence that happens when life just gets messy and inconvenient.
Reed:That's such a critical point. It's counterintuitive, isn't it? That often our most significant growth doesn't come from pushing through these huge, heroic obstacles, but from the cumulative micro decisions. Just choosing to stay engaged when life throws these mundane, inconvenient wrenches into our plans is the difference between grit as a performative act and persistence as this quiet, consistent choice. So when the source talks about this ordinary determination, what does that actually look like in practice?
Reed:What are those small, unglamorous choices?
Lena:Well, as the source outlines it, it's more of a subtle recalibration, not some iron will. It looks like, well, losing sleep, yet still finding the discipline for micro actions that maintain momentum, like walking those six miles in the airport, you know. Even though it wasn't the perfect training session, it looks like adjusting when plans just don't go as expected. When the schedule you meticulously crafted just collapses. Recognizing that flexibility is its own kind of strength.
Lena:And maybe most powerfully, it looks like leveraging humor, laughing at the absurdity of it all. That acts as a powerful psychological circuit breaker against frustration, doesn't it? It stops the setbacks from completely derailing your spirit. Brent's ability to just pivot rather than, you know, wallow seems key.
Reed:Yeah. Pivoting. That's a great way to put it. It's not glamorous. No, it looks like changing a flat tire in the dark.
Reed:So your kid feels supported even when it costs you precious sleep before your big event. It looks like that simple, powerful act of just saying, okay, this isn't ideal, but I can pivot. It's about showing up for the messy real life moments that demand your attention. And then despite those demands, choosing to keep moving towards your goal. These aren't just one off heroic acts.
Reed:They're habits, really Habits of mind and action. And when you stack enough of those determined choices together, when you consistently make those small decisions to keep going, one day, you find yourself crossing the finish line of something you thought might never happen. It's that cumulative effect of those ordinary moments that makes the extraordinary possible. It really reshapes our understanding of what resilience actually means, doesn't it? Less about bouncing back from one huge blow and maybe more about consistently rolling with the smaller punches.
Lena:Exactly. Which brings us to what Brent's experience means for work and life more broadly. This really expands the relevance of crossing the finish line. Whether you're pushing, say, a multiyear product launch, navigating a complex career change, building a long term personal habit like consistent exercise, or even just trying to get a challenging family project off the ground. The truth from Brent's story is just universally applicable.
Lena:Setbacks are absolutely inevitable. Plans will go sideways. Timing will be inconvenient. And just when you feel like you're close to the finish line, life will test you with a flat tire or a flight delay or a midnight ER visit. So the question isn't whether those things will happen.
Lena:They will. The real question is, will you let them stop you? Or will you adjust, keep moving, and eventually cross the line?
Reed:That really is the crux of it, isn't it? It frames adaptability not as some bonus skill, but as a core competency. For any significant long term endeavor, how do you integrate that kind of determination into your professional life? Like, if you're a project manager facing unexpected budget cuts, or a team member suddenly leaves, it's not about giving up, right? It's about finding your own airport walk moment.
Reed:What small, proactive step can you take right now to maintain momentum and morale? Or if you're an entrepreneur struggling to get a new venture off the ground, how do you reframe those creative blocks or investor rejections? Not as failures maybe, but as just more flat tire moments that require a pivot and a practical solution.
Lena:Precisely. It's about cultivating a mindset where challenges are seen not as absolute roadblocks, but as natural yeah, frustrating, but natural components of the journey. And this applies so profoundly to personal growth too. Think about setting a goal like learning a new language or mastering a complex skill. There will be days you're exhausted, days you feel like you're making zero progress or unexpected life events that just eat into your study time.
Lena:The ordinary determination comes in choosing to do just five minutes of practice instead of the full hour you planned, or finding a creative way to integrate the learning into your daily commute, maybe. It's about not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. And understanding that consistency, even in really small doses, always trumps those sporadic bursts of heroic effort. It's about recognizing that the pivot isn't a sign of failure, but actually a required competency for long term success.
Reed:It really brings it full circle. For Brent, it took over ten years to get from that gondola ride, that cheapish 5 k at 10,000 feet, all the way to an Xterra finish line. And there's that perfect full circle twist to his story too. One that really underlines the power of persistent vision. The same world champion he met on the mountain more than ten years before, he ended up winning the very race Brent was competing in, which was, I imagine a powerful reminder to him that hard things take time, but they're always worth it.
Reed:So the core lesson here seems to be that determination isn't really about brute strength or perfectly pristine conditions. It's about staying in the race, maybe laughing at the setbacks and choosing to keep going. One ordinary determined choice at a time. It's the subtle cumulative power of those everyday choices that truly makes the extraordinary possible.
Lena:Which, you know, race is an important question for each of us, doesn't it? What's the difference between merely having a goal and truly embodying the determination to see it through, especially when the path is anything but linear and life is constantly throwing these ordinary wrenches into our carefully laid plans? It seems to be about that everyday perseverance that while definitely not glamorous is fundamentally what carries us forward. It's the often unseen work of just maintaining momentum amidst the mundane.
Reed:So what does this all mean for you listening right now? Perhaps consider a long term goal you might have abandoned or maybe one you're currently struggling with, feeling kind of overwhelmed by the unexpected detours. How might reframing those setbacks not as failures, but as ordinary moments of determination, Those small, unglamorous choices to just keep going? How might that fundamentally change your approach? Maybe the greatest victory isn't just crossing the finish line, but realizing that the true grit, the real strength, was actually forged the ordinary messy moments along the way.
Reed:That's our deep dive for today. Thanks for listening. Until next time.
Andy:That's it for this week's episode. To close out each Rivr Conversation, I like to describe the photo featured in the Rivr Notes newsletter. It's not just a stock image, it comes from a real adventure after all, the best ideas often come from staying curious, embracing new perspectives and engaging with the world around us. This week's photo was taken at the edge of a mountain lake on a summer morning, the kind of morning that feels almost too still to be real. The water is glassy, perfectly mirroring the pine covered hills that rise on the opposite shore.
Andy:Yellow buoys float quietly in the distance, small markers of activity in an otherwise calm scene. The slopes are green and full, but you can see where the shoreline has pulled back, leaving a band of rich earth between the grass and the water, evidence of seasons shifting and water levels changing. Above it all, the sky stretches wide and blue, streaked with delicate brush strokes of cloud. It's a place that invites you to pause, to breathe a little deeper. You can almost feel the cool air on your skin, hear the faint lap of water against the shore.
Andy:A reminder that calm doesn't mean empty. It means ready, waiting, holding space for whatever comes next. If you'd like to read the full Rivr Notes article, including all the amazing photographs, you can find it at OnRivr.com, that's Rivr without an e, and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts so you never miss a conversation. Before we go, a quick reminder. The opinions and viewpoints expressed in this podcast are solely those of the presenters and our AI companions, sharing personal reflections and perspectives.
Andy:We're not legal experts, medical professionals, or therapists. This content is for informational and entertainment purposes only, so please consult the appropriate professionals when you need advice or support. Thanks again for listening. Rivr Conversations is an OnRivr, LLC production.