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We share stories of how the blood of Jesus has transformed ours and others' lives.
Tyler Bell:
Hey guys, welcome to the Soapy Box Podcast. Today, we're talking about boundaries, but this is episode two, so make sure to check out episode one before this because it gives context into what we're talking about. Thank you so much for checking us out. Make sure to hit like and subscribe on the way in and enjoy the show.
Denalee Bell:
We're going to talk about what is a reasonable boundary, and I have probably a little reel that I did on this, on what is reasonable, but I'll just start out with, I had a therapist asked me once because I was so frustrated. I was in the midst of it with a family member who is in crisis.
And it's hard when you're new to boundaries and somebody's in crisis to know what is a reasonable boundary. And she said, "What's reasonable to you?" And I looked at her, I'm like, "Just give me the answer. I paid you for this hour."
Tyler Bell:
Come on.
Denalee Bell:
But it really opened my eyes to think-
Tyler Bell:
[inaudible] answer all the questions.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. "Just give me the answer. I don't have time for this. I have a decision to make." But it made me think about it later. I'm like, "Okay, what is reasonable to me?" And that question played on like, "Oh, it is important to know what's reasonable to me." That's an important question because I matter.
Tyler Bell:
The question is a little deeper than you thought.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. And that I matter and the equation was new to me. Like, "Oh, I matter. My needs matter." And this is important for Christians, especially, because sometimes we got caught up in not wanting to be selfish, but your needs matter to God.
You need to be loved. You're supposed to love you, yourself and others. So, these things are important. We have to know that what is reasonable to us does matter for sure.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. So, understanding your needs and your wants when you're trying to figure out what a reasonable boundary is, right?
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Tyler Bell:
I think that's a good first place to go to. After that, I'd probably determine whose lane is it in. So, is the overgrown tree on my property or on theirs?
Denalee Bell:
Whose responsibility?
Tyler Bell:
Whose responsibility is it? What property is it on? I think for you and me, we like to take responsibility for other people's overgrown trees, right?
Denalee Bell:
We do.
Tyler Bell:
And that's a compliant thing, obviously, but I think that's a good place to go to next is after needs versus wants, "Is this a need versus want? What are my needs? What's reasonable to me? Whose lane is it now?" And then, after that-
Nicole Hreniuc:
It's respecting the wants and needs of others.
Tyler Bell:
Yes.
Nicole Hreniuc:
So, I feel like it's easy when you're putting up a boundary to... I think it's really easy to get combative about it and turn it into an argument, especially if you're new to it and you're not really too familiar with how to put in those boundaries, it could easily come off as way harsher than it should be.
So, usually, for me, what I love doing in situations like this, and this has helped me even with not even putting up boundary, but trying to solve something in a relationship, is I always put myself in their shoes.
And I imagine, I'm like, "Okay, what if he or she was telling me what I want to tell them right now? How would I feel? Would I take it right? Would I be understanding or would I just close off and escalate the situation?"
Denalee Bell:
Is it reasonable?
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Because boundaries have been difficult for me, and I'm much older than you, guys, so I've had much more years of not saying no. When it is a big ask, it's like I listen to my body for an indicator. I do that a lot.
And if I'm feeling good to decide if it's a reasonable boundary, I think is it a need versus a want? Does this person truly need this and does this person... or is this a want? And that helps me determine if-
Tyler Bell:
So, it's like, my needs and wants first, whose lane is it, and what's their needs and wants, right?
Denalee Bell:
Exactly. Because sometimes, even if it's a want for them, I'm okay giving somebody a want if my basic needs are met. Do you know what I mean? I'm okay giving if it's a want that I can give and that it's okay to give.
Tyler Bell:
But I'm not going to be just petty and not give it to you because it's just the want and all my needs are met, or, "My needs are met, but I don't really feel like all my needs are met," or it's just learning these different things. You know what I mean?
Denalee Bell:
Exactly. So, to find a reasonable boundary, too, I also pray because sometimes we don't know what God's doing. I feel led sometimes to not do things that I feel would be the right thing to do, and you get to see the fruit of that later that, "Okay, you're right. I wasn't supposed to step in there."
And that's been nice. And I think that the key to the boundaries, to me, to helping me set boundaries and wanting to, is to knowing how much we actually hurt people by stepping in and taking their responsibility and they don't get to learn and grow.
It's been key to me that I've hurt people, really hurt them by keeping them in a situation by enabling them. And I don't want to hurt people. I mean, the whole part of being a complaint is you're a nice person, supposedly, just joking.
So, let's say I overstepped a boundary with you, guys. How do you guys communicate?
Tyler Bell:
Short, sweet, and simple for the first time, for sure. And that was enough. That was a full sentence, use it. And if you can stay in a neutral and kind voice, you don't have to be super ultra gentle. You don't have to be like, "Hey, here's my boundary." So yeah, just short, sweet, simple, kind, like in this voice, in this tone.
Denalee Bell:
I think a simple no is sufficient.
Tyler Bell:
You could say, "No, I don't want to. No, I'm not feeling like it today."
Nicole Hreniuc:
And I feel like in situations when you're in a group of people and let's say someone shares something about you that you didn't necessarily want it to be shared, I think it's good to not necessarily call them out in front of people, but just find the right time and place to really place that boundary and say, "Hey, I don't like my things being shared to everybody."
Tyler Bell:
Time and place, yeah.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Like making sure that it's just a safe space on both ends.
Tyler Bell:
Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
When I'm communicating a boundary, I like to be as direct as possible now and clear, and kind. But I used to believe that being direct was mean.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, me too.
Denalee Bell:
But I think being direct is a kindness to both of them. And saying, "No, I don't want to do that," is saying yes to a relationship. Saying no to you is saying yes to the relationship. It means, I'm not just going to walk away.
I'm not going to just avoid you. I'm trying to communicate boundaries to you. And it lets people know where I stand and where they stand. And I think about when people have given boundaries to me, I'm like, "I like that," like, there's a freedom in it.
And also, when we express and effectively communicate a boundary to somebody, it gives them permission to do the same with us, and then we can build a healthier relationship together.
Tyler Bell:
Facts. I completely agree.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Agree.
Tyler Bell:
I think also a good point is assuming they have the best interest for you. Because when you just learn boundaries and somebody crosses a boundary, your immediate reaction is to be like, "Screw you, dog. I'm going to teach you a lesson."
Instead of assuming that they might've just not known that that was your boundary or they want you to have boundaries. So, just assume that they have the best interest for you.
Denalee Bell:
When I'm communicating a boundary, I, of course, try to be kind and gentle, and posture it with that kindness. And especially, if somebody is new to me, the new me, that knows me from before, I'm a little kinder with it.
Or sometimes, for example, I'll say, "Hey, I used to really be like this in the past, but I'm trying to change the way I am, so I'm not going to be able to do that. I couch it a little bit with I'm learning and I'm growing, and this is where I'm at. Could you please have compassion with me?" Is basically what that's saying.
Tyler Bell:
So, it's clear. Yeah, it's clear.
Denalee Bell:
It's clear.
Tyler Bell:
And it's gentle.
Denalee Bell:
But I'm softening it up for them.
Tyler Bell:
So, when I say neutral to kind voice, it'd be a good opportunity to have a kind voice, right?
Denalee Bell:
Yes. But also, instead of just saying, "No, no, I don't want to do that," I can say, "Hey, I used to say yes to everything, and it just overtook my life. So, I'm just trying to communicate my boundaries more effectively."
Tyler Bell:
Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. That's a good place to start.
Denalee Bell:
Yes, if you're uncomfortable.
Tyler Bell:
If you're uncomfortable or even new to setting boundaries, that's a great one.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. It's just those easier ways. And then, it takes some pressure off of you and them, I think.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. You can posture and prime it how you want.
Denalee Bell:
And I think it's just a gentler, easier way when you're first starting out to do it. Why is it so hard to enforce a boundary?
Tyler Bell:
Dude.
Denalee Bell:
Why?
Tyler Bell:
Say that again?
Denalee Bell:
Why is it so hard to enforce a boundary?
Tyler Bell:
That's what I'm talking about. I think because fear is the root of struggling to set boundaries, if you're avoidant or compliant, that's where it starts. And that fear is often placed in different things, like I've said, losing a relationship, conflict, hurting feelings.
When I started to learn boundaries, I could set a boundary, but when someone would continue to break that boundary, I couldn't enforce it. I didn't want to hurt their feelings. I didn't want them to feel awkward. I didn't want the situation to just get ruined because-
Nicole Hreniuc:
You felt like your power was taken away?
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, exactly. And the vibe was fun, maybe. Or I was having a good time and I just didn't want to just ruin it. And it was just more like a fear of conflict in hurting others that just made me struggle enforcing them.
Denalee Bell:
Do you have a hard time enforcing boundaries?
Nicole Hreniuc:
I do. I think it's with certain people. I think with friendships, I have a very easy time now. It's still trying to navigate that with family, but that's where the fear roots, you're just scared of losing relationships.
Denalee Bell:
And also, I think, with family, too, there are definite patterns and dynamics that have been built up that it just takes a little more time and practice, I think. I feel it was hard for me when I was first starting to set boundaries was there was this internal programming in me that said, "You're selfish if you don't do this."
"You're not kind." And if you're a Christian, too, let's add that component on. You're supposed to be kind. You're supposed to be selfless. But if you don't understand what those words actually mean, it's a little confusing.
Selfless doesn't mean that... of course, you put others before yourself, but only after they have taken care of their own responsibilities of which they're able to take care of. We're each told to carry our own load.
And so, we weren't told to carry everybody else's load, but we are, of course, the Good Samaritan in the Bible. He stopped, and he took care of the Good Samaritan, but he didn't end his life and quit his job to help the guy. He put appropriate boundaries.
Tyler Bell:
Self-sacrifice everything in that moment. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
So, selfless doesn't mean self-sacrifice. And I think that was a difficult thing for me was that programming of what that looked like. And we could do a whole podcast on just the Christian biblical way to set a boundary and why it's okay.
But the truth is Jesus is about love. Jesus is about personal responsibility. Jesus is about freedom. And being somebody else's caretaker isn't freedom.
Tyler Bell:
There's a social conditioning, so in the church or maybe at the restaurant I was working at on, where like, "Everybody be nice to each other and everything's all good and okay." I'm not saying that the restaurant was guilty of that, but just an example. There's a-
Denalee Bell:
An expectation.
Tyler Bell:
... an expectation, and it looks a certain way, and you participate in that certain way because that's all you think it is.
Denalee Bell:
Well, in the church is very similar. There's an expectation. We help. We do all these things. But we're also post... this is another thing I want you to be aware.
When you're setting a boundary or when you're choosing to do something for somebody, if you're not doing it with a cheerful heart, you're being a compliant, and you're going to end up being resentful for it.
Tyler Bell:
I love that cheerful heart. Do a cheerful heart.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. So, that's something that I look at when I am like, "Do I want to do this? Is my heart cheerful about this?" Because that's how God wants us to approach him and his brothers, if not, it's just a dirty rag, anyway. Then, we're just doing it to look good.
Tyler Bell:
Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
And that's not what God wants. He wants us to help and love with a cheerful heart. I know I said that four times, but it is important.
Tyler Bell:
With Christ centered in the middle.
Denalee Bell:
Exactly.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah. I think that's important when you're enforcing a boundary, especially if you feel like you still have anger towards it. You need to just take a break and let it soak before it.
Denalee Bell:
Truth right there.
Nicole Hreniuc:
It damages everything that you built with that person.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. And I think it's okay to take time to think about it and say, "Hey, if it's a big ask, I need to think about it." I just had somebody ask me recently who wanted me to... it was a big ask, and I knew I didn't want to do it, and so I gave myself some time to think about it because sometimes I go right to the no now.
And I'm like, "I need to think about this. I need to talk to my husband about this."
Tyler Bell:
You and I do that with Soapy Box.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Tyler Bell:
I'm quick to say no. You're quick to say no sometimes. And I think you and I catch it now.
Denalee Bell:
I think so, too.
Tyler Bell:
We just said, no. You might be right, right there. My bad for saying no sometimes.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. It's okay to take time. And I think that's an effective way to enforce a boundary, too.
Nicole Hreniuc:
You have to be respectable of people that want to take time, too. When me and Tyler argue, I feel like we're pretty... we don't argue often, but I think we're pretty good about either of us can look at each other and be like, "I don't want to talk about this right now."
"Let's go take a breather for 20 minutes and let's come back and retouch on it." And even when I'm stubborn and I'm like, "Why would you even want to stop talking about this now?" I still respect it because I know there's a root of... he's trying to protect the relationship. And that's important with boundaries, too.
Denalee Bell:
And I think taking a time out is another way of saying yes to the relationship. Because it's not saying, I'm leaving. It's saying, I need some time to think this through.
Tyler Bell:
And it is cool that we can rate it off each other without having to say it. But if you're new to doing that in a relationship, setting boundaries in a relationship, you're going to probably have to vocalize that, "I need a moment." "I need to go for a walk before I do something or say something that I don't mean out of anger or emotions.
Denalee Bell:
Yes, exactly. And especially if you're new to setting boundaries, there are a lot of emotions happening, anyway.
Tyler Bell:
There's an emotional tipping point that led you here.
Denalee Bell:
Yes, exactly. And we have already talked about the other reasons it's hard to enforce a boundary, fear of missing out.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. Nicole got some FOMO.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah. That was a big one for me. I mean, especially when I was younger. I think that's something that you can experience throughout your whole life, though.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. I've felt that a lot in high school, graduating, at high school and stuff. That period of time-
Nicole Hreniuc:
For me, it was so bad.
Tyler Bell:
... where your identity is loose a little bit and you're trying to figure out where you are in the world.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah. Someone doesn't invite you to something, it's over with.
Tyler Bell:
Oh man.
Nicole Hreniuc:
"Oh, what did I do wrong?" Well, maybe they just wanted to hang out with some other people.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. And that's a boundary. They get to hang out with other people. You get to say, no. It's a dance, right?
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah.
Tyler Bell:
It's like breathing, right? It's not supposed to be holding your breath for a certain thing or trying to extend your breath too long. It's supposed to be simple breath, man. It's supposed to be a flow.
Denalee Bell:
I know this person who has a difficulty when they're doing something and not everyone's invited. It's truly difficult for this person. And I'm just like, "It's okay, not everyone gets invited. It's okay."
Tyler Bell:
It's hard to not be invited, though, a little bit. But that's where your identity lie when you don't get invited.
Nicole Hreniuc:
You start looking into every aspect, like, "Did I just say something wrong?" "Am I weird?" Everything you can think of.
Denalee Bell:
And when you get to be my age, you'll be grateful when you don't get invited.
Tyler Bell:
Starting to feel that way.
Nicole Hreniuc:
I'm starting to feel that way, too, honestly.
Denalee Bell:
You'd be like, "I don't have to do that. That's awesome."
Tyler Bell:
Just trying to stay inside and watching reality TV with Nicole, man, play some guitar.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Oh, that's all we do.
Denalee Bell:
So, we've talked about why it is so hard for some of us to enforce a boundary. Now, let's discuss how do you actually enforce a boundary when you have a boundary buster who won't pay attention to your boundary?
Nicole Hreniuc:
I think a really important thing, like I said earlier, is to put yourself in their shoes and make sure you have a kind heart about it.
Denalee Bell:
Because it's easy when somebody crosses your boundary to get a little heated. For me, it is, because I'm still maybe in phase two of this where I don't like my boundaries being crossed.
Tyler Bell:
Yes. Step one, set the boundary, good heart, their perspective. After that, when you're enforcing the boundary, repeat it two, three, 10 times. If you feel like you have to go to 10 times, that's up to you. That's a lot of energy. But that's up to you.
Nicole Hreniuc:
At that point, you should just walk away.
Tyler Bell:
At that point, you should walk away. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
I'm a three-time person. My new favorite thing is to say the exact same words. "No, I don't want to go to that concert." "No, I don't want to go to that concert." "Are you sure? It'll be really fun." "No, I don't want to go to that concert."
And I think it sets I'm being nice, but it also says, "Hey, you're not listening to me. I've told you three times."
Tyler Bell:
So yeah, it's like give them the benefit of the doubt that they maybe didn't hear.
Denalee Bell:
That's the second and third time.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. I believe in second chances. Second time, be clear. Let them know exactly what exactly I'm saying, the words in general. I think there's this phrase that you mentioned earlier, saying no, it's me saying yes to the relationship. I think you could throw that one in there.
Denalee Bell:
You could.
Tyler Bell:
If you're struggling to set a boundary and they keep busting it down.
Denalee Bell:
I feel like when I have a person who is not listening to me, I'm okay getting a little more assertive. I am. Because I feel like you are ignoring me and my needs at this point. I'm going to get a little more assertive and help you hear me.
And if I get a little more assertive by the third or fourth time, I'm okay with that. I mean, you guys could do you. But I like to think of this next stage when people don't listen the second, third time as punishment, just joking. This is not therapist-approved.
Tyler Bell:
Consequences.
Denalee Bell:
The consequence is such a nice word. But I think, by the time, I'm at the fourth time of somebody saying, no, like continually trying to break my boundary, I think it's fair for me to be a little irritated. So, here are my consequences. It's space-
Tyler Bell:
Discipline.
Denalee Bell:
... time and... well, yes, that's sweet. It's time and distance. Okay. So, you don't listen to me. You're not caring for my needs. I have to give us time and distance, or I'm going to lose my marbles.
And I think that's fair because... and this happened with your dad early on, if he wouldn't let me work, because when he's not busy, he thinks I should not be busy, but we have two different work schedules. So, he'd come in and interrupt me.
So, I said, "Okay, if you cannot obey this boundary I'm setting, I'm going to go work at the coffee shop. Well, he didn't want me to do that, so then he would start listening. So, I gave him a consequence that was fair. It wasn't an arbitrary.
I wasn't going to say, "I'm going to divorce you if you don't let me work." It was, "I'm going to go work at the coffee shop because this works better for me." And so, I give a consequence of what could happen. I never had to do it because then he saw, "Okay, you're really frustrated. I get it."
But some boundary investors don't listen. And I have two in my life where I have to say, "I have to go now. You're not hearing me. I love you. I'll talk to you when you can speak nice to me." This is how we're going to have to do it.
And I think there's a tricky thing when we're enforcing a boundary that we want to take control of the situation. So, for example, I had a person hang up on me. So, my initial response is... it is a family member who wanted something that I wasn't giving him, and he's not used to this, yet.
And so, he hung up on me and then called me right back because he wants the thing. And my first thought is to say, "Don't hang up on me." Well, that's just me trying to control him now. He gets to hang up on me if he wants.
But here's the consequence. You can hang up on me if you want, but I don't have to pick up the phone next time. This is the new consequence.
Tyler Bell:
You're allowing them to have free will over the relationship.
Denalee Bell:
You get to have bad behavior. I don't have to put up with it, meaning I'm going to give you time and distance because I need to take care of me, too. And I think we should have maybe talked about this, too, in reasonable boundaries. It's reasonable to want to be safe emotionally, financially, and physically.
Tyler Bell:
It's safety.
Denalee Bell:
It's reasonable to be safe, to feel safe in your environment. And it's reasonable to have your needs taken care of first. There are a lot of reasonable things that we should have added, maybe, to that area. But being safe and being treated with respect, and... I'm respectful to people, for the most part.
I mean, I've had a few harebrained times in my life where I just wasn't. But I deserve to be respected just as I would give to anybody else. And so, when somebody treats me with less respect, I don't have to do that.
Tyler Bell:
So, state the consequence, if they don't follow, give the consequence, and don't try to control the outcome.
Denalee Bell:
Exactly, and space and time. So, I repeat the boundary. If it doesn't work, it's space and time. And the space and time is for them because I might get angry now, and I don't want to go there. I don't want to dissolve the relationship. The space and time is for them as much as it is for me.
Tyler Bell:
It's interesting, like, consequences as they apply to different roles. So, say you have kids, for us, when we're going to have kids, space and time out in their own space. It's not that you're abandoning or neglecting them, but you are setting disciplinary action.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, space and time from activities, space and time from games.
Tyler Bell:
That's why I discipline more than consequences because there's like a-
Denalee Bell:
I like punishment.
Tyler Bell:
I know you do.
Denalee Bell:
I'm just joking, the punisher. I'm totally joking.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. But I like discipline because it is like you're-
Denalee Bell:
It is discipline.
Tyler Bell:
... disciplining the relationship, even-
Denalee Bell:
And that's from the root word disciple, which means to teach. So, we're just teaching.
Tyler Bell:
We're teaching people how to treat.
Denalee Bell:
We're teaching people how to treat you, and it's a reeducation for many people in your life because I'm not the same person. And so, I do give a lot of latitude, but there's a couple people that are particularly hard for me, and I don't have as much patience for them, as I used to, but I don't want them out of my life, either.
So, it's a difficult thing. So, what are some common mistakes for boundary newbies? I talked about taking control a little bit. That was a mistake that I used to make because I wanted such control of my life that I didn't want anyone to have control of me anymore.
But now, the space and time thing really works well for me. So, I think that that's been helpful. And I think another thing that I did that was a mistake, or maybe it wasn't a mistake, is I think it would've been a mistake to stay there, is I retreated from life and people.
And I retreated because I needed to get strong, but I wanted to stay there would've been the mistake because I did, it was safe. I was like, "Oh, I don't have to do boundaries all the time. I can just relax."
Tyler Bell:
That makes sense.
Denalee Bell:
So, that would've been a mistake because we're meant for fellowship. We're meant for connection. We're meant to share and learn, and grow. And that would've been a mistake.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, for sure. I think a common mistake for me was thinking I was too harsh. I thought that every boundary I was putting down was too harsh because I wasn't putting boundaries down at all. So, it felt like it was way too much, and it was going to just be fracture the relationship. And it was more like just me sticking up for myself.
Denalee Bell:
And it was probably normal to everyone else. So, your dad said this to me because I had a really hard time with this, too, in the beginning. He said, "Just be as mean as you want. Say the worst thing you could, just practice on me." And I said, and he goes, "See? And it still wasn't harsh."
Tyler Bell:
And I think when you're learning, you'll want to dance around it and be super nice about it, and then maybe you'll go the other way because you got angry about it. And I think over time, repetition and practicing your boundaries will give you a sweeter spot and more confidence and more-
Nicole Hreniuc:
And giving yourself grace.
Tyler Bell:
And giving yourself grace, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
I think so, too, because it's a process and a journey. It took us a long time to get here, while some of us longer. You guys are younger.
Tyler Bell:
Sugarcoating your boundaries. So, this is interesting because you like to posture and prime your boundary for the person to hear it well, depending on the circumstance, if they're a new person that you're setting boundaries down with.
However, I feel like sometimes if you sugarcoat the boundary, it might confuse the boundary buster. It makes them think that they can overcome that boundary.
Denalee Bell:
Okay. So, I didn't like it when you first said it, but I do like what you said there at the end, because I think if it's too soft, it looks like a way in for a controller or manipulator. It's just another objection.
Tyler Bell:
It looks like you don't actually mean no, because you're just trying to be polite, maybe. It might look like that.
Denalee Bell:
Looks like more of an objection than a no.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, exactly. Not setting a consequence. I'll follow through with. Learning how to set boundaries, it's really hard to learn how to enforce them and set a real consequence, but stick to one that I actually could do.
So, setting a boundary with space and time, and maybe for a week, I'm just not going to see this person or talk to this person because it was crossing a line. Could I actually do a week? Was I able to do in week and enforce a week? There was times where I couldn't have.
Denalee Bell:
I can't even think of a situation where I'd say, "Hey, I need a week break from you."
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. Well, maybe you wouldn't set that word by word, but you to yourself were setting the boundary of, "I just need a week."
Denalee Bell:
Oh, that's fair.
Tyler Bell:
And a lot of the times, I would just not follow through with it and give it up because maybe they just boundary busted, maybe I couldn't enforce it properly. Or myself, I set too strict of a boundary. It's just interesting things.
Denalee Bell:
I think the punishment needs to fit the crime. And we can't set these crazy ultimatums on a small boundary. And you want to at first because you're like, "I'm not putting up with this any longer."
Tyler Bell:
When you're learning boundaries, you just get so fed up so quick. You have a short fuse that pent-up resentment is not an excuse for extreme punishment.
Denalee Bell:
No, it won't work for you or for them, although, it feels good in a minute.
Tyler Bell:
If you set a boundary not to cheat, it would make sense that the following consequences of cheating would be like, "I'm going to leave you," But if you left the toilet seat up, it's not I'm going to leave you for that.
Denalee Bell:
Well, I don't know. If they put the toilet paper on the wrong way, that's just maniacal.
Tyler Bell:
Egregious bastards.
Denalee Bell:
I know. I don't know why people put on under. It's weird.
Nicole Hreniuc:
But another thing that I also said earlier that's important is not giving yourself grace, too. I think that's something that's really, really important in this situation. Especially if you feel like you're a people pleaser, you're going to instantly resort to trying to coddle people just because you put some self-respect in and you really have to just learn that you're fine.
Denalee Bell:
And you might relapse or make a misstep, and you have to give yourself grace for those things or you... because you're not a failure. You're learning. You're growing. And sometimes it's harder than others.
Some people are harder than others. I think you just really have to... so, the grace thing is new to me on this issue because sometimes I get in a loop with somebody and I'm like, "Why can't we figure this out? Why can't we do this?" And then, I think, "Am I ever going to get it?"
Nicole Hreniuc:
And especially as a people pleaser, I feel like a lot of people have a habit of phasing their boundaries as a question instead of a statement.
Denalee Bell:
To soften it up, like you said.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah, exactly.
Tyler Bell:
It's like sugarcoating. But question is a little different, though.
Denalee Bell:
The question, do I really want to, even in inflection, right? I don't know, should we?
Tyler Bell:
I think that you shouldn't do that. Do you agree?
Denalee Bell:
No, I doubt. I want your money.
Nicole Hreniuc:
And then, it's shut down and then you feel bad, and then, yeah, you just can't do that.
Denalee Bell:
That's awesome. I think it's really important. I think this goes along with the grace as to celebrate the victories. So, I have a person in my life who is in crisis, and it is very hard to say no to this person.
And there's a hard one that just came out recently that I had to say no for so many reasons. I just knew it would hurt him. I knew that's what God wanted, and I did it. And it was something I could never have done before.
And so, I am celebrating that victory because this is my biggest boundary buster, and I did it. And you have to celebrate that. And this is in our self-image, we talked about the success mechanism and these things, and gaining success.
Victories and successes will help you get to the next success because you're like, "I did that before. I can do it again."
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, I like that.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. Any other tips for us?
Tyler Bell:
Well, I got some tips for you. That sounded weird.
Denalee Bell:
Well, while you think about it, I do want to mention this, too, before I forget, is a support person, group is necessary. Can you guys imagine, we all talk about boundaries a lot because we're living it and we have a couple of people in our lives that we have to talk about because I think boundaries are important for all of us and being in that same place, because I want a long relationship with you, guys.
But some people don't have anyone. Some people don't have my husband who is willing to role play with me, who is willing to let me practice with.
Tyler Bell:
That's pretty cool, man.
Denalee Bell:
He's so awesome. Thank you, God. Thank you. Thank you. And I have a support group at church. I have people that I can talk to at church. If there are support groups out there, I think if you are a huge people pleaser, maybe... I don't like to put labels on things, but because I'm not a co-dependent, but I have exhibited co-dependent issues, I'm not going to claim it because I am not that person.
But in the past, I might've been. But there are groups that you can go to get a little bit of support, but just don't live there. Don't live under the label. I think when we live under a label-
Tyler Bell:
Don't let it be a part of your identity.
Denalee Bell:
Yep. We don't need to identify as such things. We are growers. We are overcomers. But there are some benefits to being in a support group. And I really would support a Christian group because that speaks truth and speaks about healing. And that's what God created us for is fellowship, and I think it's important.
Tyler Bell:
I agree.
Denalee Bell:
Any other tips you guys have?
Tyler Bell:
Yes. I got quite a list for you. First one, pay attention to your body, it might be giving you a sign that there's a boundary problem. A lot of these boundary problems when they arise, it's like the failure mechanism thing that we mentioned earlier.
Be more assertive in your boundaries so you can be less resentful in your relationships.
Nicole Hreniuc:
That's good.
Tyler Bell:
Get in there.
Denalee Bell:
I like that, be assertive in your boundaries.
Tyler Bell:
So, there's less resentment. That's for them compliant fellows out there. People can't read your mind. Stop getting resentful with people who don't understand your needs because you can't communicate with them. That was my biggest struggle.
Denalee Bell:
That is actually a struggle for me, too, because I still get frustrated at the boundary buster for daring to step over a boundary with me when this was the relationship we had, and it's not fair, they didn't know. They don't know why I changed.
Tyler Bell:
It's the relationship that you enabled. Conflict avoidance is intimacy avoidance.
Denalee Bell:
That's good.
Tyler Bell:
That's a good one. If you're constantly venting about someone, you probably need to set a boundary with them. I mentioned that one earlier.
Denalee Bell:
Amen.
Tyler Bell:
Unconditional love doesn't mean unconditional acceptance of bad behavior.
Denalee Bell:
This is truth. And I think love is such a tricky thing. Love does not mean enabling.
Tyler Bell:
Or self-sacrificing.
Denalee Bell:
Death does not mean accepting a lie. Love does not mean a lot of things. But what it does mean is being kind, compassionate, and being compassionate also doesn't mean self-sacrificing.
Nicole Hreniuc:
Yeah. It doesn't mean saying yes to everything.
Tyler Bell:
It doesn't mean you got to put up with somebody's bad behavior and allow it to happen.
Denalee Bell:
No.
Tyler Bell:
And then, unconditionally accept it.
Denalee Bell:
Because we don't let people grow. That's a opposite of love. If you're protecting somebody's feelings, if you're protecting somebody from taking responsibility, that's the opposite of a love.
Tyler Bell:
Well, look at it. If you're trying to protect somebody's feelings, there's a chance that you're afraid of how you're going to feel dealing with somebody's feelings.
Denalee Bell:
Right. And then, they don't ever have to deal with their feelings. They don't have to grow.
Tyler Bell:
Uncomfortable conversations are difficult, not having them are harder. It's harder.
Nicole Hreniuc:
And then, so much builds up if you don't.
Tyler Bell:
So much building.
Denalee Bell:
I wish you wouldn't have said that. I'm in the middle of waiting for one of those.
Tyler Bell:
The silent treatment is not a boundary.
Nicole Hreniuc:
That's a good one.
Denalee Bell:
Okay. So, I was confused by this because I want to say sometimes I need to be quiet. I need some time. I need some space.
Nicole Hreniuc:
But I think there's communication that comes with that.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah. So, there's a practical in the moment like withholding yourself. That becomes unfair. Withholding your love, that's like the non-responsive, not-
Denalee Bell:
Okay. I probably do do that. I probably do that.
Tyler Bell:
Yeah, I do that a little bit, too. I think we all do, probably.
Nicole Hreniuc:
I do it, too. I do
Tyler Bell:
It's not your job to be someone that puts other people at ease.
Denalee Bell:
Oh, my goodness. I walk into a room or do something and I want everyone to be comfortable.
Nicole Hreniuc:
That's I am, too.
Denalee Bell:
Because I'm uncomfortable if they're uncomfortable.
Tyler Bell:
I know.
Denalee Bell:
But it's not my job.
Tyler Bell:
But it is your job to learn to be comfortable in yourself in those moments, right?
Denalee Bell:
That's good. That was a good one. That was a banger.
Tyler Bell:
Thanks.
Nicole Hreniuc:
That's learning how to get comfortable with people doing things for you, too. Because I feel like when you're compliant, in that sense, you do things for everybody and you try to make everything perfect, but the second people want to do something for you, it just doesn't feel right.
Denalee Bell:
I am getting really comfortable with you cooking for me. I'm getting really comfortable with it.
Tyler Bell:
It is a pride thing, though, isn't it?
Nicole Hreniuc:
At least I like it. I don't know if it's a pride thing because it's like, "Okay, I put myself in my shoes, I-
Tyler Bell:
It can be.
Nicole Hreniuc:
... always planned out my own birthdays. I always like making them super special to me," and then in the years that either someone made a reservation for me or I didn't have to focus on making it perfect for everybody, it just felt wrong for me, which that's not how it should be. I should accept those type of favors from people to a certain extent.
Denalee Bell:
I think sometimes as I've grown older, I don't want people to do things for me because I don't want to have to do things for them. I was so overwhelmed. I'm like, I'm already tapped out. If you do something for me, I'm going to have to do something for you, too.
Tyler Bell:
I'm going to owe you.
Denalee Bell:
Yes, because it's gift. It should be a gift. If we're going to give our time or energy to somebody, it should be a gift and it shouldn't be expected back. But in relationships, there's some reciprocity that's to be expected.
And if there's a one way relationship, I don't like that for me. I don't want to give that to somebody else, but at the same time, like, "Oh, please don't do anything for me." I'm so tapped out.
Tyler Bell:
I agree.
Denalee Bell:
But I think I'm growing back into that now that I have more time, that I can-
Tyler Bell:
I get that.
Denalee Bell:
... I can be kind again. I can accept it.
Tyler Bell:
The last one I have is be yourself so people looking for you can find you.
Denalee Bell:
Yourself, so people looking for you can... your people, yes. I do have a new brand of people that I like to be around that accept me for who I am.
Tyler Bell:
Who you actually are, not the person that's trying to please everybody and sacrifice yourself because you're not being yourself.
Nicole Hreniuc:
I like that.
Denalee Bell:
I love that.
Tyler Bell:
I think that's a good one to end on.
Denalee Bell:
That is a great one to end on. I want to thank everyone for joining us today. Please like and subscribe. It helps us bring you content, and we enjoy doing this.
Tyler Bell:
Amen.
Denalee Bell:
Thank you and see you next time.
Tyler Bell:
See you. Thank you.