146 "What can we learn from one woman's history of toxic relationships?" with Stephanie Quayle

What happens when the person you’re spending your life with turns out not to be who you thought they were?  

Stephanie Quayle knows because she lived it. She joins the show to share her story of a toxic relationship that left her questioning everything she knew about the world, her partner, and herself.  

Stephanie Quayle is a musician, entrepreneur, and author of the new book, “Why We Stay.” Sitting down for a raw and authentic conversation, Stephanie shares how she partnered with the leading expert on Narcissism, Dr. W. Keith Campbell, to write her journey of healing in hopes of helping others regain agency and rediscover the capacity to trust themselves. This conversation is vulnerable, powerful, and a must listen no matter your current relationship status. 

In this episode:
1:52 – A call to take care of yourself and a content warning for this episode  

5:02 – Why Stephanie is taking care of herself with the release of her new book  

8:00 – How Stephanie’s life unraveled 15 years ago  

13:37 – Dr. Keith Campbell’s work on narcissism and contribution to “Why We Stay”  

17:09 – How narcissism played a role in Stephanie’s toxic relationship 

26:29 – How Stephanie revisited the hard parts of her story  

31:35 – Red flags in relationships  

34:30 – How Stephanie learned to trust herself again  

40:38 – Stephanie's encouragement for others in unhealthy relationships  

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Creators & Guests

Host

Hannah Warren

Creative Marketing Director at Onsite

Host

Lindsey Nobles

Vice President of Marketing at Onsite

Host

Mickenzie Vought

Editorial and Community Director at Onsite

Editor

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What is Living Centered Podcast?

So many of us go through life feeling out of touch with ourselves, others, and the world around us. We feel disconnected, overwhelmed, distracted, and uncertain of how to find the clarity, purpose, and direction we so deeply, so authentically, desire. The Living Centered Podcast in an invitation to another way of living.

Every episode, we sit down with mental health experts, artists, and friends for a practical and honest conversation about how to pursue a more centered life—rediscovering, reclaiming, and rooting in who we truly are.

Stephanie Quayle: 00:06

And I believed him to a fault. I overrode my own gut instincts, my intuition. Every time I was like, I cock my head and be like, wait a second. You know, it was met with you're insecure, you're crazy. Initially it was the love bombing and, and everything is happy and great.

Stephanie Quayle: 00:27

And then it wasn't till it started, you know, slowly picking me and minimizing me that my light got dim. And I I allowed it because I was sure I was the problem because that's what was relayed to me. Right? And so I kept, if I get stronger, if I get wiser, if I do something better to better myself, then maybe, then maybe I'll be good enough for him. And then of course, after, you know, everything essentially was a lie.

Mickenzie Vought: 00:59

Welcome to the Living Centered Podcast, a show from the humans at Onsite. If you're new to this space and just beginning this journey, we hope these episodes are an encouragement, a resource, and an introduction to a new way of being. If you're well into your journey and perhaps even made a pit stop at Onsite's Living Centered Program or one of our other experiences, we hope these episodes are a nudge back toward the depth, connection, and authenticity you found. In this series, we sat down with some of our favorite experts and emotional health sojourners to explore the relationships that make up our lives. From our friendships to our families or families of choice to our relationship with ourselves.

Mickenzie Vought: 01:39

Part practical resource and part honest storytelling that will have you silently nodding me too. This podcast was curated with you in mind. Let's dive in. Hey, friends. Today's topic is a heavy one.

Mickenzie Vought: 01:55

And while filled with hope, if you're not in a place to listen today, we hope you'll take good care of yourself and skip it, if that's what you need. Before we jump in, there is mention of suicide ideation and toxic relationships throughout this episode. If you are in an abusive relationship, help is available. You can speak with someone today at the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 800 799-7233. Take care of yourself, friends.

Mickenzie Vought: 02:25

Alright. Now to today's guest. Today, we get to sit down with a new friend, Stephanie Quayle, to talk all about unhealthy romantic patterns. Stephanie is a Nashville recording artist who tours the world with her music and an entrepreneur with her own record label, Big Sky Music Group. Stephanie recently released her first book, Why Do We Stay?

Mickenzie Vought: 02:48

How My Toxic Relationship Can Help You Find Healing. She partnered with the leading expert on narcissism, Doctor. Keith Campbell, and it is a fantastic book. This episode is also special because I was joined by Onsite VP of Entertainment and Specialized Services, Debbie Carroll, as my cohost for this conversation with Stephanie. We jumped right into the conversation, and you'll notice that I catch myself a few minutes in to officially start and backtrack with Stephanie.

Mickenzie Vought: 03:19

Debbie and I were both so grateful to have been able to be a part of this conversation. And I hope that if you resonate with Stephanie's story, you walk away from this conversation feeling empowered and seen. Alright. Let's jump in. I feel that way, especially when you write a book this vulnerable.

Mickenzie Vought: 03:40

I would make up that as it starts to go out and you start talking about it, the anxiety would ramp up. So

Stephanie Quayle: 03:46

You are a 100% correct. It's it's very similar to when I put out the album on the edge, like, the week leading up to it. Mhmm. I thought about pulling the plug on it. I I seriously considered because it is so exposed, and that was, you know, just little 3 minute song version.

Stephanie Quayle: 04:08

So now with the book, there's no there's no gray. There's no, like, well, I think she meant no. I wrote it exactly how I mean and meant it for. It was I am starting to feel that way for sure. And I think even just the title of the book and the sharing of what the story is about I know you experience this every day, I'm sure, is that when you kind of put out anything, whatever capacity, relationships or toxic, it's amazing who kinda starts coming forward.

Stephanie Quayle: 04:45

And not even in my personal journey, just people going, you know, I just had a woman call me who shared the same guy. And I'm, like, I have to I have to mentally kind of prepare myself every day for just that it Yeah. Mission because it's not light.

Mickenzie Vought: 05:05

Yeah. Yeah. And what are some of the ways that you do that? I I that's something I wouldn't have thought of as you put something so heavy out into your world and share your story and hope that it will help other people. There is gonna be some reverberation of people sharing their stories back at you or someone else's story and a lot of what we would call, like, secondary trauma even.

Mickenzie Vought: 05:22

So how are you taking care of yourself?

Stephanie Quayle: 05:24

I am finding a lot more alone time, a lot more quiet. I'm a very extrovert person as we you know, I'm I I love humans. I'm having to kind of retreat a little bit and really set my intentions. So every day, you know, my prayers, my meditation, my journaling, my journaling is like a direct line of moment. I mean Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 05:51

It's blowing my mind even this morning when I was journaling and just kind of preparing my my day, just what I'm discovering about myself. That's really, you know, the most important relationship we'll ever have. It really is is how are we with ourselves. And just kinda when I think I'm like, oh, I wrote a book. I'm doing great.

Stephanie Quayle: 06:14

I've got my stuff together. It's like, oh, hey. Now that we've gotten to that layer, let's go deeper. And so this, this is this life journey is deep, friends. It's it's just the discovery is wild.

Debbie Carroll: 06:32

It's so true. I don't think we ever stop learning and growing, and sometimes I wish there'd be a little bit more of a breather in between opportunities.

Stephanie Quayle: 06:40

Yeah. So a

Debbie Carroll: 06:40

little bit more of a break.

Stephanie Quayle: 06:42

Yeah.

Debbie Carroll: 06:42

Yet yes. There it just it's mind boggling how many layers there are.

Stephanie Quayle: 06:48

Yeah. I find that I get really self critical when I find out there's a layer I have not attended to. So I get very, like, okay. So we you know, I usually get angry with myself, and then I'm like, okay. Well, this isn't going to do anything.

Stephanie Quayle: 07:06

This is not serving you, Stephanie. So let's let's break it down. And that tends to take about 24 hours, I've noticed. Like, the the the onslaught of information and then, okay, like, let's let's break it down. And and journaling for me, writing for me has been the greatest gift.

Stephanie Quayle: 07:26

Is it there's no other person. It's just you and God in the paper or computer or wherever you write. And it that has given me a tremendous amount of peace to navigate this whole new adventure of expression through a book. Yeah.

Mickenzie Vought: 07:44

We kinda jumped right in. So I would love to to kinda I was

Stephanie Quayle: 07:48

like, oh, we're we're starting with it. Yes.

Mickenzie Vought: 07:51

But tell us about the book and kinda give us a little bit of why now. Just a little bit. What what was the prompting in this season that you were ready to kinda share your story?

Stephanie Quayle: 08:01

Absolutely. So going back to, you know, 15 years ago, you know, and and just for the listeners, I've been married now almost 9 years. I'm in this incredibly healthy, solid marriage, with this, you know, so there there is light at the end of this, tough story. And I was in a relationship with a man I was sure I was going to spend the rest of my life with. Right?

Stephanie Quayle: 08:27

I was raising his daughter with him. I just we it was everything, and then it wasn't. And he died in a plane crash on January 28th of 2009, and it was a Wednesday. And I say that because Wednesdays have always had a that Wednesdays hit different. And Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 08:49

Wednesday, I I was in shock and trauma and all the things that we could talk about that come with grief. I only grieved him for about 5 days because the 5th day, which was Sunday, we had a public memorial service for him at the airport where he had crashed. And he was piloting the plane. This was something he did all the time. I flew with him countless times.

Stephanie Quayle: 09:15

So it was a very strange, set of circumstances. And at the memorial, there was a sea of strangers.

Mickenzie Vought: 09:24

Mhmm.

Stephanie Quayle: 09:25

And I noticed a lot of women. And then that night, it was confirmed that I wasn't the only woman. So grief betrayal and, like, a very truncated amount

Mickenzie Vought: 09:37

of time. So fast.

Stephanie Quayle: 09:38

Yes. And with that, it was such a different time. Social media was nothing like it is now. Mhmm. I have this 12 year old little daughter, little girl not my daughter, his daughter that has just lost her dad.

Stephanie Quayle: 09:51

So regardless of his behavior, that's still her father. So kind of grappling and wrestling with all these things, I went into mama bear protection mode, protect this little girl at all costs, and then she grew up. And we've stayed very close, and she had the courage to start healing herself through her art, which led me to write my album. And I always considered a book because it was such a stranger than fiction set of circumstances. Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 10:24

The timing is really, you know, I have nothing to do with it. You know, it's just kinda like I circumstance, and I started writing kind of as a memoir. And then our mutual friend, John Zarling, he introduced me to Harper Collins. And when we started talking about what this book could be, it became, wait a second, this could actually be a tool. We could actually create a tool, a guide, not a textbook, but something that people could go back to and revisit.

Stephanie Quayle: 10:57

And, that gave me a lot of, okay, I'm on purpose. That feels right to me because we're helping others through a story that, you know, is a little bit stranger than fiction on steroids. Although, as I'm learning about other people's stories, mine's pretty pretty usual. That's what's banana. Not that uncommon.

Mickenzie Vought: 13:36

What I particularly love about Stephanie's book is how she partnered with doctor Keith Campbell, a leading expert on narcissism, personality, and cultural change to really ground her story through the lens of therapeutic principles. Together, they do a great job of both normalizing individuals' experiences while creating the space to name the patterns and buzzword concepts that many of us know, but maybe don't actually apply to our own situation and our own lives. There's something about someone naming what you're experiencing that validates it and opens your eyes. I asked Stephanie how the 2 got connected to work on this book together. Here's what she said.

Stephanie Quayle: 14:21

He got introduced to me in such a special wild again, like, everything about this has been so, what I call, divinely orchestrated because you just couldn't put us together. And the way that we were introduced was through a mutual acquaintance, now friend, but at the time, it was just this these all these little circumstances that brought us together. And, you know, he is one of the, foremost experts in narcissism. His, you know, his track record I I I don't even think I really realized how he is, like, the expert when it comes to talking about this and being, you know, on the forefront of that conversation from 15 years ago. So right at this moment where this was starting for me, he was sharing this already.

Stephanie Quayle: 15:11

And I, you know, I just I didn't have the wherewithal. I didn't have I didn't have the book. I didn't have someone say, hey, you need to read this book. Right? Or the terminology.

Stephanie Quayle: 15:21

So when we got introduced, he immediately said exactly, kinda what you said. He said, this was not your fault. This was not because of you. And I think, you know, so many times when we're when we're in unhealthy relationships, be it business, personal, family, whatever that is, romantic, we put so much of it on us as something we could have done differently. And there there are many things I could have done differently, and now I have that knowledge.

Stephanie Quayle: 15:52

And, man, so much shame. And with one sentence from an expert in that brief first encounter, I just felt like it wasn't my fault. And that I think we take that on. Right? I I think shame is I I've been wearing shame like a bit of armor for many, many, many years.

Stephanie Quayle: 16:17

And so he's just been a delight to learn from, and I feel like I'm just starting to learn. Right? Like, I'm as we're writing the book, I'm learning along the way. And now I get to, you know, reflect back and spend time with him and be like, okay, wait, I have so many more questions, you know, as you discover more. So, yeah, it's it's been a real it's been a real joint.

Stephanie Quayle: 16:40

So I'm excited for people to hear, hear and read the story. So it has that first person experience, but then have Keith's expertise to really shine light on what you're feeling is not wrong. What you're sensing is not wrong. You questioning yourself is normal, and yet you're your greatest advocate. So, yeah, I'm I'm excited for people to have the tools.

Mickenzie Vought: 17:08

The word narcissism came up several times throughout this interview. And something I remember learning when we were concepting Onsite's course identifying narcissism was how numb those of us who are in a relationship on the other side of someone displaying those behaviors become to the patterns that the narcissist exhibits. I was glad that Debbie took a moment to explore this idea a little bit more with Stephanie. And I was struck by the idea that when we name something, it can reorient every experience we've had with someone.

Debbie Carroll: 17:43

One thought around just narcissism in general, I don't think most who are are narcissistic even have an awareness that that is part of their being or their character. And somewhere along the way, something was wounded in them that caused the behaviors that they're exhibiting. And but in it sounds like too when you were in this relationship, you didn't want know what to call it, or you didn't know what to name it until much later. Talk a little bit about that.

Stephanie Quayle: 18:13

I have no idea. You know, we had we had a lot of dynamics which we talk about in the book where, you know, because of our age difference, you know, there was that immediate power play. Right? And so I really believed him, you know, and I believed him to a fault. I overrode my own gut instincts, my intuition.

Stephanie Quayle: 18:36

Every time I was like, I cock my head and be like, wait a second. You know, it was met with, you're insecure, you're crazy, and he would only call me by my last name, which I have, you know, I have theories on, for sure. And so, you know, initially, it was the love bombing and and everything is, you know, happy and great. And then it wasn't till it started, you know, slowly picking me and minimizing me that I just my light got dim. And I I'll I allowed it because I was sure I was the problem because that's how it was relayed to me.

Stephanie Quayle: 19:15

Right? And so I kept well, if I get stronger, if I get wiser, if I do something better to better myself, then maybe then maybe I'll be good enough for him. And then, of course, after, you know, everything essentially was a lie. I am sure that there was a woman or more at the beginning of our relationship. So I'm sure I I am the other woman to some other woman, which is just such a head trip.

Stephanie Quayle: 19:47

You know? It's like, that's just not even who I am as a human. So and I didn't get a say in it. Right? I didn't get Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 19:56

I didn't get a say in it. Now in some of these other women's cases, they knew about me and they made that choice. And that's, you know, for them to navigate. Mhmm. And then for me to write songs about.

Stephanie Quayle: 20:09

So there is that there is that part. Yeah. No. It was, when I now now being able to look at it such so obvious now. You know?

Stephanie Quayle: 20:21

But the one thing that I really encourage others to never say to someone who's in an unhealthy relationship and gets out is or is trying to get out is, oh, you're smarter than that. Or you should know better. Because I think that when we're in it, we're in it. And that's what I hope this book will be is kind of like the when you don't know what to say, hand this book to someone and be like, you should read this girl's story and see if there's anything in here that, you know, is relatable or is interesting. Because I think, you know, I'm an expert in myself.

Stephanie Quayle: 20:56

I'm becoming an expert in myself. But there's a lot more there I still have to learn. And that gives that, like I said, firsthand experience. Right? But Keith then meets it with tremendous expert insight.

Stephanie Quayle: 21:10

It's not like your dad saying, hey, that guy's a narcissist. All you know, dads will say things. You're like, yeah, dad, but you don't understand. Right?

Mickenzie Vought: 21:18

What I really took from your book was that people, even if they were raising the flag for you, you were so in the relationship that you either weren't listening to the red flags that they were raising, they are saying concern, or you were in a relationship with the other person was convincing you that everyone else was wrong. And so can you kind of talk about the isolation that happens in a in a toxic relationship where you aren't able to hear the voices of maybe some different people in your life who who are loving and encouraging and saying, hey, I don't I don't really like this.

Stephanie Quayle: 21:48

Yeah. Isolation is super sneaky

Mickenzie Vought: 21:52

Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 21:53

And really dangerous. And, when my family was reaching out, I I I guarded myself, which was such an interest like, was such a flag to myself now. Right?

Mickenzie Vought: 22:08

Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 22:09

Because I knew if I said anything, they would know. So I kept it all like, I'm fine. Everything's fine. And he didn't really we didn't go around his family, and he couldn't spend a lot of time around mine, which I find really interesting. And that isolation is a is a is a tactic.

Stephanie Quayle: 22:32

It is an absolute tactic because when you're not around others that can speak into your life, they can use a control too. Right? It's a controlling tactic. And so I had one of my friends refer to me as a Stepford Wife while I was in it because I just was so just gray. I was gray as I wear gray.

Stephanie Quayle: 22:53

I was so gray. And, I my light was just gone. And I made a lot of excuses, you know, from his the first relationship to the second one. I would make excuses for bad behavior. And that's such a sign to me now, and I see it with, you know, when I if I see my friends in situations like that, I'm like, no.

Stephanie Quayle: 23:17

No. No excuses for bad behavior.

Mickenzie Vought: 23:21

Yeah.

Debbie Carroll: 23:21

Well, that's so interesting around that you kept him from your family. So there was a level of intuition Sure. And and awareness, yet I also believe when you're in a relationship that can be toxic or just unpleasant or there are things that need improving, you there can be a sense of denial, like, well, but I love him so much. And love can be blind. Love can be Yeah.

Debbie Carroll: 23:45

You know, until it's not. Yeah. So it sounds like you you had some sense of what it was, but then it was just so incredibly difficult to unwind.

Stephanie Quayle: 23:54

So difficult to unwind. And anytime I tried to leave, you know, I especially in that first relationship, when when things got to where I just I couldn't make it make sense. And I even offered myself up, meaning, like, hey. I'll be okay. I'll be heartbroken, but I'll be okay.

Stephanie Quayle: 24:16

If you don't want me, let me go. And that is like a moth to a flame. Right? Because that just made him want to conquer me more

Debbie Carroll: 24:30

and

Stephanie Quayle: 24:30

hold on to me more. And that's when he would double down with, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna marry you. I'm gonna give you everything you ever wanted, you know, and and you're like, okay. Well, is he is he being is is this gonna hap you know, it just it just messes with your mind. And Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 24:50

So and then that, you know, because I didn't resolve myself after and really heal myself and take the time to get to the bottom of me, I fell Yeah. Into another toxic relationship. And that one was really toxic, and I didn't realize how toxic it was because I I think the brain is so good at protecting. Right? Our brain's like, okay, we're gonna just put this in a little compartment because you can't handle this right now.

Stephanie Quayle: 25:16

And it was as I was writing the book, and I got done kind of with writing about the first relationship when I started to write about the second one. I had to keep calling my mom and my stepmom and just go, did this really happen in both relationships? But I had to keep checking myself because the toxicity of the second one was, you know, I haven't healed those wounds, and and those just compound. And now we're in a very precarious place. I was in a very dangerous place mentally, where I just I just wanted to stop hurting.

Stephanie Quayle: 25:55

And I was willing to do anything to stop the pain. And that was, you know, very, very dangerous.

Mickenzie Vought: 26:03

And scary. Mhmm.

Debbie Carroll: 26:05

Very scary. Yeah.

Mickenzie Vought: 26:11

As Stephanie shared the depth of pain and grief and hurt and confusion that she experienced in both of the damaging relationships she reflects on in her newest book, Debbie asked her if she'd be willing to share what it was like revisiting those hard parts of herself and her story.

Stephanie Quayle: 26:29

I've said this, if you wanna know yourself, write a book about yourself, and it will rock your world, I think, in a healthy way. You know, I I don't know that I don't think I when I started writing the book, I didn't think I would say, like, oh, I'm gonna talk about this instance that almost took my life, or I'm gonna talk about this instance that almost took my life. I didn't think I would go there. I thought that I was going to be a little bit more guarded. But as I was writing the book, I'm like, you know what?

Stephanie Quayle: 27:00

How can I say to someone else? Don't avoid anything. Go to all the scary places. Now, I'm choosing to be very public about it, and, like, not not everyone's gonna choose to do that. But to not confront all of

Debbie Carroll: 27:17

it Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 27:17

Didn't feel honest. Right? So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna and it was scary. And it still is. I mean, to even, you know, because it's really revealing every aspect of that.

Stephanie Quayle: 27:30

But there's also such ownership in the narrative that no one else gets to, control. That's really what the book became much more than about these guys.

Mickenzie Vought: 27:43

Yeah. It was about you. It's

Stephanie Quayle: 27:44

really it's about me and and, okay, I've got a lot of healing to do. And I, even last week, caught myself going, why do I stay in a business relationship that's not healthy? And I go, Stephanie, read your book. You know, like, so interesting that how, you know, it really then starts to take shape in every aspect. Mhmm.

Stephanie Quayle: 28:10

And I I think sometimes we think, oh, that's just this part of our lives. But everything affects everything.

Mickenzie Vought: 28:18

I wondered how it bled into other areas of your life. And as you started to do the work in one relationship, I wonder if it has kind of pushed you into doing work in other relationships. I feel like I've seen notice that in my own life when I start to get healthy in one area, let's say boundaries, I'm starting to set boundaries in my personal relationships. And it that muscle gets strengthened. Yeah, my ability to tolerate unhealthy behavior or people walking over my boundaries becomes less and less because I know how to do it better.

Mickenzie Vought: 28:48

So then I start, I start setting other boundaries. And it's an uncomfortable feeling because you're changing the dynamics of how people know how to relate with you

Stephanie Quayle: 28:56

completely.

Mickenzie Vought: 28:57

So tell me about what that has looked like as you've done this work, how it does play out into other relationships.

Stephanie Quayle: 29:03

That what you just said is so powerful and so needed because the word you used was tolerate. Yeah. What we are willing to tolerate for ourselves

Debbie Carroll: 29:19

Mhmm.

Stephanie Quayle: 29:19

We would rarely let our friends and loved ones tolerate.

Mickenzie Vought: 29:23

Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 29:24

What we accommodate oh, man. Those two words, accommodate and tolerate. Right? They're just visceral. Interesting.

Stephanie Quayle: 29:33

And, yes, so going back to your question about how it bled into other relationships, Because, again, I was vulnerable and I hadn't done the work. I was very what I I was very susceptible to bad people. And the work relationship that I talk about in the book that happened, it was it was emotional manipulation at its highest. It was using grief and losing the loss of loved ones as the bait. And I tell you what, like, going back to that time, I'm so lucky to be here.

Stephanie Quayle: 30:17

So many times my life could have been taken and or, you know, whatever inflicted upon myself, I think about it. I'm like, what was I thinking? You know, I was so trusting, and I was so willing to trust in my business even though I had just gone through a meat grinder when it came to Yeah. In romantic relationships.

Mickenzie Vought: 30:44

Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 30:44

And so it's really interesting how I, for some reason, was so trusting in my business relationships that were very toxic. All the meanwhile, being in this, you know, romantic, untrusting play, it was very weird, very strange. And then, of course, as you get stronger and as you heal, now now it's like I I I have a zero tolerance. I won't even waste my time trying to figure out why people are bad, which is what I you know, I was like an investigator. You know, I had to get to the every little nook and cranny to understand why this person could behave this way.

Mickenzie Vought: 31:29

Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 31:30

You know, my time my time is precious now. Mhmm. Because you can't get it back. Can't make more.

Debbie Carroll: 31:36

That's a very good point. You can't make more. Yeah. And we have a finite amount of time on this earth. And so ensuring that it's the very best life that we can live is is so important.

Debbie Carroll: 31:47

I'm curious for you as you've done this work, which it sounds like a significant amount of work and not only written a book about it, but also written songs and really had some other healing outlets for you personally to on your journey. But when you when you talk about the business perspective, what are some or otherwise or romantic. What are some red flags for you personally where your antenna immediately gives you that intuition that maybe this is not

Stephanie Quayle: 32:15

Yeah.

Debbie Carroll: 32:16

The right relationship for me? Are there certain things that you've learned to identify that are helpful for you?

Stephanie Quayle: 32:21

Absolutely. First things first, how does that other person make me feel? Are they and I'd say, especially in business, there's this, you know, let me tell you how it's done kind of, you know, diminishing, oh, condescending. Like like that minimizing condescending place that some people like to work from, that's like a for me now, that's just I can't I can't even. Can't even.

Stephanie Quayle: 32:49

If I have any bit of my gut, my heart, my head, or my head, if it goes like this, my if it doesn't add up, I don't question it. I just walk away. And, you know, I don't know if that's overzealous or if that's, like, an overcorrection. I just don't do it. And because it's just too much of a it's just got too much of a hook for me.

Stephanie Quayle: 33:14

And when anyone refers to anyone as crazy Yeah. I immediately put them in a new category. And depending upon my relationship with that person, if they're new or if it's an acquaintance or whatever it is, I will tend to, ask that person, oh, so this person is in a mental institution? Let's break down that word because that word is is a shutdown word. And so when people use words, it's shut very dismissive.

Stephanie Quayle: 33:44

Yeah. To shut others down when they say someone else is crazy, I tend to look at them a little differently. And that's just the way I do it. Yeah. And, you know, when people show us who they are, I think we really owe it to ourselves to believe them.

Stephanie Quayle: 34:01

Yeah. You know, words are words are strong. Actions are stronger. We can't expect different results from others who do the same thing over and over and over again. I have to remind myself of that because I believe people, and I love people, and I see potential like a big blinking light, and I just want the best.

Stephanie Quayle: 34:26

We can't want more for others than they want for themselves.

Mickenzie Vought: 34:30

Oh, that's good, Stephanie. I've heard people say it who kinda find themselves in perpetual relationship patterns. Like, oh, I've been here before. I've been here before. And people will say I have a bad picker.

Mickenzie Vought: 34:41

And I think you use that phrase in your book. And I imagine when you've got that narrative about yourself, like, oh, I have a bad picker, you stop trusting yourself. And I just wonder what that journey has been like because hearing you rattle off the things you just rattle off, you have a lot of confidence within yourself with who you are. You have a confidence in your gut and your intuition. Yeah.

Mickenzie Vought: 35:02

But I would imagine that that was pretty hard earned. And and someone else who's out there on the front half of this journey saying, I can't trust myself because I picked this over and over and over again.

Stephanie Quayle: 35:13

Right.

Mickenzie Vought: 35:13

What did that process look like?

Stephanie Quayle: 35:15

So my trusting myself was so discombobulated and so rattled that it took not only grief therapy, grief counseling support, you know, grief support groups, But, really, it took me getting alone with myself and quiet and said, okay. You're the only one that you have a 100% of the time, every single day for the rest of your life. So let's get let's get you. Let's start with you. And I've spent a tremendous time, and I spend a tremendous time.

Mickenzie Vought: 35:56

Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 35:57

Trusting myself. And it's intentional. It's a daily it's it's it's a daily muscle. It's a daily habit to get to that place. And then, you know, you have these circumstances that will happen that you're like, oh, my gut was right.

Stephanie Quayle: 36:13

I trusted myself, and I need to start writing it down. I need to start writing down like, hey, blah blah blah blah. This is what your gut gut's saying, and just remember this when this doesn't work out that you already knew.

Mickenzie Vought: 36:24

Yeah.

Debbie Carroll: 36:25

Already knew. I'm wondering. I think sometimes that that gut reaction, the the muscle becomes stronger, so to speak, as we get older or do more work. Not necessarily get older, but as we do more work. Absolutely.

Debbie Carroll: 36:39

The people we choose to love, you know, toxicity can be attractive. They can, you know, can be very charismatic, very charming. Maybe that point in our lives, we need whatever the love bombing is that that somebody's giving. And then then later, you're like, wait a minute. This is shifting or changing.

Debbie Carroll: 36:59

And so I feel like for I'll speak for myself. My journey in relationships would have not been great, except I'm in a really solid marriage now, but it took a few tries. That, you know, choosing choosing the people that we wanna love often also has has to do with the woundings and the things that

Stephanie Quayle: 37:18

we had

Debbie Carroll: 37:18

in childhood. Of course. Really unpacking that and looking at, why am I selecting this type of man? Mhmm. For a long time in my world, it's just like, I'm out.

Debbie Carroll: 37:31

I'm not dating. This is not good for

Stephanie Quayle: 37:34

me or for anyone

Debbie Carroll: 37:36

else. So yet right. You're all about trusting your own intuition. Were there learnings for you along the way around things that areas to work on that maybe weren't even related to the to the individuals that you selected, but more related to yourself

Stephanie Quayle: 37:52

Yeah.

Debbie Carroll: 37:52

And the things that you needed and wanted that you weren't getting.

Stephanie Quayle: 37:56

Yeah. That's that's a great that's a great question. I spent a lot of those relationships trying. Trying to be what I thought the other person needed me to be to fill that space. When I first met David, I was in my toxic number 2 relationship, and I was very forthcoming about how jacked up it was.

Stephanie Quayle: 38:18

And, you know, we're just met through a mutual acquaintance, and it was just, you know, I was in North Carolina playing a show, and I had no try left. I was I was I was at, well, what I considered to be my rock bottom.

Mickenzie Vought: 38:36

Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 38:36

And so I just was so honest and raw with him that that's how our initial conversation even began. So when, you know, I get to this place of, okay, I'm single now and he's single, and I I get to meet him in our now home in Montana, I'm like, I don't get the healthy, solid, stable guy. I get, you know, the next version of the last version. You know? Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 39:05

And so that took me some time to trust. The thing about David is he just wanted me. He just accepted a lot. You know, I don't know how many men would be like, oh, she's gonna be fun. You know?

Stephanie Quayle: 39:22

I mean, it came with a whole lot of whole lot a whole lot. And the thing I love about him is he just he knew. He knew I wasn't at my not even full healing because I don't think I I think that's just a constant thing. He knew I still had healing to do. Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 39:41

He but he knew that it would come. He had a lot more faith in me, I think, than I even did. Right? Mhmm. So I was still in the process.

Stephanie Quayle: 39:51

And so, you know, when I think back to, gosh, like, just trusting myself, that when I leave a room, when I feel like I'm with healthy people, I don't ever leave feeling smaller.

Mickenzie Vought: 40:06

That's good.

Stephanie Quayle: 40:07

Leave feeling like, oh, man, that was a waste of my time. I go, gosh, man. I'm a go take on the world. Let's go. Like, I'm gonna get off this podcast and be like, okay, I've got more to do.

Stephanie Quayle: 40:19

Let's go. How can I you know?

Mickenzie Vought: 40:21

And Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 40:22

I think that's a huge observation and flag that I've really learned to, like, go into every room with now. How did I come in? How am I leaving?

Mickenzie Vought: 40:38

As we were winding down our conversation, I wanted to ask Stephanie if she had any encouragement for someone who had a loved one in a toxic relationship. I asked how she might suggest someone come along side that person in a way that would be fruitful. Stephanie shared that because of the way she'd been isolated from her community and the way she'd chosen to not be forthcoming with those who were in her life, she didn't have anyone who came to her with the truth of what she was living in. She wished someone had seen and she shared how it has changed the way that she shows up in relationships with others who are in the same place.

Stephanie Quayle: 41:16

I don't know what Keith would say about this, but I will, ask him when I see him. I will risk friendships with the truth.

Mickenzie Vought: 41:26

Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 41:26

And I am okay with that. I'm okay with people leaving my life because of the truth. And I say that because a lot of times, you know, people get back together with the ones they're leaving. And I just know so viscerally how it felt knowing that everyone knew of a certain group, and no one protected me. And I am willing to lose friendships over that.

Stephanie Quayle: 41:57

Right? I saw a friend or heard of a friend or that, you know, firsthand situation and know that my friend is in something, and they're over in in over their head and they don't know. Now I I would hopefully use all the tools and the skills to do it as correctly as possible and as kindly. And, you know, I think confrontation can be very courageous, and I think we can do it in a very kind way. And, also, we have to ask the other person if they want the information.

Mickenzie Vought: 42:28

That's good.

Stephanie Quayle: 42:28

Because sometimes people don't wanna know. And I'm a I'm a, like, a seeker. I am an actionist when it comes to the truth. I wanna know it all. And I don't know that that's you know, I just I'm just in, like, I wanna I wanna figure out every little crevice.

Stephanie Quayle: 42:45

And if there's a I can write a little situation that's not quite right, I'm gonna do it. And so then, of course, you know, once my family and friends knew that their intuition was correct, their concerns, I mean, they're phenomenal. You know? And I I think the thing we have to remember is we can't make anyone heal faster. We can't make anyone leave someone.

Stephanie Quayle: 43:11

Mm-mm. You know? I I I now I will say when people have reached out to me and said, hey. I'm in a I'm in an abusive situation. I say run and here's who you call.

Mickenzie Vought: 43:21

Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 43:22

Because I don't I don't know what else to say. Right? Except, like, here are all the numbers of all the experts and support groups that are available. But if you stay, he's he's gonna hit you again because he's done this. So, yeah, I don't know if that answers both questions, but I feel very passionate about, you know, there are options you can leave.

Debbie Carroll: 43:46

There's that's a great segue to a question that I have for you, Stephanie. When people are reading this book and as you were writing it and as you're about to launch it, what are some of your hopes that people walk away with as a result of, you know, your beautiful writing and your your vulnerability and your truth and your honesty? What what do you hope people leave with?

Stephanie Quayle: 44:09

My greatest hope is that number 1, they'll get time back. I think that I'm such a young I was, like, 18, and I was already running out of time. I was very I was just I'm like, I've not done anything with my life at 18. You know? And my mom would be like, oh, here we go again, you know?

Stephanie Quayle: 44:29

And then time moves. And I gave. I was complicit because I gave and I stayed my time. And I'll never get those years back. That's why the, you know, the song The Lost Years, I think, hits me so hard off the album because it's, like, I think we can all relate to time that if we could do it differently, we wouldn't have done it like we did.

Mickenzie Vought: 44:58

Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 44:58

And so my, like, my first hope is that as people read this book, that it will truncate that healing, truncate that decision making because they'll have the information. Right? And that's like that doesn't write 15 years of stuff. Right? And I wouldn't you know, people ask, well, if you would you do it differently?

Stephanie Quayle: 45:22

I mean, it put me here. It gave me my precious husband. It gave me the most glorious relationship with a little girl that's now a a grown woman and and Mhmm. Had all you know, we can't

Mickenzie Vought: 45:37

go backwards. Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 45:37

But we can give forward in our experience and wisdom and experience. Right? And so I think that getting people time back is just like, okay, I can get behind that mission.

Mickenzie Vought: 45:51

Mhmm.

Stephanie Quayle: 45:51

And then, you know, and obviously, all the information. I think that when it comes to grief, I wish someone would have said to me, don't wait. Don't wait to get help when it comes to grieving because grief is I had no idea. And I was 2 years in before I took that first step and went to grief, specifically grief counseling, 1 on 1, and then, a grief support group. And I I went going, please tell everyone.

Stephanie Quayle: 46:30

Tell everyone to not wait because grief is you can't outrun it. It will compound, and you can make it a friend. Absolutely make it a friend, but it is a strange deal. And I think until until people experience that, it's hard to say, oh, I know how you feel. Right?

Stephanie Quayle: 46:50

Be like me telling someone who's gone through something. They're like, oh, I know I know I don't know how you feel. But losing someone and understanding the magnitude and the confusion that comes with grief, don't wait to take care of you. Mhmm. You know?

Stephanie Quayle: 47:04

And that's gosh. I really I'm really good at taking care of others. Yeah. But, man, did I like, I was at the bottom of my own like, I'll get to you later. Mhmm.

Mickenzie Vought: 47:17

You're at the bottom of the to do.

Stephanie Quayle: 47:18

Yeah. Bottom. Yeah. And it's just not that's just not we're not meant to do that, and we're not meant to carry it. Now when I think about just our our sweet little bodies that just Mhmm.

Stephanie Quayle: 47:34

Carry the weight and carry the all this stuff. Like, no. We're we gotta get it out. So that's another hope is that people will read it, be like, okay. Maybe I can take on myself too.

Stephanie Quayle: 47:49

Mhmm. Maybe I can That's good. Stop avoiding things and go to the dark places with the support and help of those that know. You know, I think sometimes we give our family maybe too much credit And, like, we can't do scripts for a reason. Like, let's utilize them.

Stephanie Quayle: 48:07

There are free wars resources like never before. So that's, you know yeah. Go go go to the information.

Mickenzie Vought: 48:17

I love that. Well, this has been such an enlightening conversation, and I really hope that it is equipping people. Your book is so beautifully written, and it's so incredible that you partnered, with the leading expert in narcissism just to to really ground it and help people and give them practical, practical applications and to to break the cycle. I think even just the, subtitle, how my toxic relationship can help you find freedom. I think it's such a beautiful subtitle.

Mickenzie Vought: 48:46

So as we end, I just wanna thank you. But also a question we often ask is, what is one practice that keeps you centered? So you're as you're talking about putting yourself at the top of the list, what's one practice that keeps you centered?

Stephanie Quayle: 48:56

I pray.

Mickenzie Vought: 48:57

Yeah.

Stephanie Quayle: 48:58

I get still and quiet, and I pray, and then I listen. Yeah. I love it.

Mickenzie Vought: 49:06

Well, thank you so much, Stephanie. I appreciate it. Thanks for listening to the Living Center podcast. If you're enjoying the show, we'd love for you to consider leaving us a review or rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or or wherever else you listen. It only takes a few seconds to navigate to the show in your app and select the stars to begin your rating.

Mickenzie Vought: 49:26

It helps more people find the show and we really appreciate it. Thanks so much.