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The only podcast covering all things Arizona State athletics! We bleed maroon and gold, and love talking about the Sun Devils no matter what sport.
David Howman (00:01)
Welcome one, welcome all to a very merry, a very supersized episode of Echo from the Buttes. I am your host David Hellman joined by, my goodness, we've got a full house today. I'm just gonna go around the horn. We've got Andrew Hazlett, Austin Bundy, Aya Abdeen, Tom Harden. I'm out of breath just saying all those names, but we got a packed house. We got a lot to talk about on this episode. A lot of different developments in Tempe, in the Valley.
Tom Hardon (00:21)
in it.
David Howman (00:31)
It's been activated and now it's getting ignited. There's lots of fun news to talk about and we got a really good show for you. Let's just go around the horn, talk about ⁓ what we're doing for Christmas. What plans you guys got going on for it? Tom, I'll start with you. Wearing the agnostic Santa Claus hat.
Tom Hardon (00:51)
I'm-
I am having a nice gentle low-key Christmas day before jetting off to Minneapolis for the week between Christmas and New Year's to cover the 2026 World Junior Hockey Championships. So I'm gonna enjoy a nice little respite before getting right back on the trail.
David Howman (01:21)
Andrew, what you got going on?
Andrew Hayslett (01:23)
Good question, because I'm not exactly sure. I know it's something with my family in Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. I just don't know what exactly. I think Christmas Eve is at our place and then Christmas Day is not. I don't know. I'm just told what to do. What?
Austen Bundy (01:42)
Andrew's just there so he doesn't get fined.
said Andrew's just there so he doesn't get fined.
David Howman (01:48)
Yeah.
Andrew Hayslett (01:48)
Yeah, I'm
just here so I don't get fined. We're on to Cincinnati.
Tom Hardon (01:53)
go.
Andrew Hayslett (01:57)
Everything's great. Decided to get back in the race car here at Phoenix. Kyle Busch once said that 20 times over. So, something like that.
David Howman (02:05)
you
Austin, you actually have a traditional Santa Claus hat ⁓ for those not watching on YouTube. Tom's got a Santa hat on, there may or may not be a certain branding about it. It's not ASU branding, I can tell you that. But Austin, what do you got going on?
Austen Bundy (02:27)
As you know, I'm on the East Coast here in Northern Virginia, so we're going to be going up I-95 to Northern Jersey to visit some family, go into New York City, see the Rock Center Tree, all that good stuff, and come on back for a little more work before the New Year and everything. So it'll be a little hectic going up to see some family in Jersey.
Hopefully the snow on Friday doesn't impact any of the return travel, but otherwise it should be fun.
David Howman (02:59)
Yeah, you and Tom are both getting, you're going colder. Like, you're both going out of your way to get colder weather at like the coldest time of the year. I don't get it.
Austen Bundy (03:10)
Gotta
find a white Christmas somewhere. It's too warm once you get under the jet stream here.
Tom Hardon (03:15)
Life's too short to be normal.
David Howman (03:19)
I guess so. How about you?
Aya Abdeen (03:23)
I don't think I have ⁓ as much going on. I'm just going to relax with the family and just have a nice little break, especially after the type of year I've had. coming off a spring graduation from Arizona State. And it's been a nonstop grind for me over the past few months while I'm still finding a job and finding opportunities for me to expand on my portfolio.
I am so grateful that I get to report Arizona State Athletics with you guys. I mean, it's a little bit random of me to bring this up, but there is there is food and drinks that I discovered on Walt Disney World just a few minutes ago. Shout out Mr. and Mrs. Sprinkles of Adventures. I mean, this is what they're having. They have all these drinks, eggnog and the turkey and mashed potatoes pop over. That sounds so good. I'm like literally I'm craving for one even though
Thanksgiving just happened last month. There's still turkey available, which is literally crazy. So other than that, I'm just excited for what 2026 has in store.
David Howman (04:32)
Yeah, yeah, and I'm going back to my old stomping grounds, back to the valley. We're flying out on Christmas day. And I'm kind of scared about that. I really don't know what to expect at the airport. So if any of you are the praying type, go ahead and send some prayers up for me, because I don't know what to expect when we get there and how crazy it's going to be. But I am excited to.
go back to Phoenix, ⁓ go there every winter around this time and get out of the freezing cold ⁓ here in Oklahoma, get back to Arizona where everybody else is bundled up and I'm wearing shorts and t-shirts and it's my favorite time of the year. Get to have good Mexican food again, which is a big plus for me. ⁓ But I actually...
Aya Abdeen (05:07)
Yes.
That's good to know.
Tom Hardon (05:21)
Thank
Thank
David Howman (05:27)
touched
on something that I wanted to bring up too, because our last supersized episode we did was right before Thanksgiving. And we had quite the spirited debate about Thanksgiving food. And I feel like there's not enough discussion around Christmas food. ⁓ But I mean, in that picture Aya showed us, there's eggnog. How does everyone feel about that?
Aya Abdeen (05:37)
my god.
And then there's like two
Tom Hardon (05:49)
Thank
Aya Abdeen (05:49)
different drinks
from Jollywood Nights and Hollywood Studios. I'm like, Mr. Sprinkles is living his life right now.
Tom Hardon (05:54)
This is.
David Howman (05:57)
you
Are we all Eggnog fans here or?
Aya Abdeen (05:59)
Like I mean it?
Tom Hardon (06:02)
Very, very,
Aya Abdeen (06:02)
No.
Tom Hardon (06:03)
very pro-Eggnog.
Aya Abdeen (06:05)
I need to try eggnog, but like I have to figure it out. Hopefully Dutch Bros has something about that.
David Howman (06:11)
I feel like it's not good. I feel like the people like Tom and Austin who are saying that it's good are lying to themselves.
Austen Bundy (06:15)
David.
Tom Hardon (06:22)
First you don't like stuffing, now you don't like eggnog.
David Howman (06:26)
I will say I had some stuffing at Thanksgiving this last year that as far as stuffing goes was the best stuffing I've had, but
Tom Hardon (06:34)
Do we see a change in the wind there?
Austen Bundy (06:34)
Now you need to have eggnog and we'll convert
you fully.
David Howman (06:37)
But I will say, did not, that was not part of my leftovers that I made sure to take. It was decent, I finished the stuffing, but I did not go back for seconds of the stuffing. ⁓ Eggnog, feel like is, it's gross, it's disgusting. What is it about the flavor of eggnog that you like?
Tom Hardon (06:50)
You know what? I will accept this.
Thank
Aya Abdeen (07:02)
That's a good question. It's kind of like, I don't remember when was the last time I tried eggnog. Like it literally felt like it was forever ago. So I don't know.
Tom Hardon (07:04)
And then we'll see you on the next
David Howman (07:05)
Like, tell me.
Tom Hardon (07:12)
mean, for me,
it's that it's just a little bit more sweeter. honestly, I like the heavier texture of it. Like that's really what does it for me. And it's just, you know, it's a nice comfort sip. Like you're not chucking it down like a glass of milk. Like you're pouring yourself a glass and you're actually enjoying it for.
David Howman (07:35)
Who's drinking glasses
of milk these days?
Aya Abdeen (07:37)
Thanks
Austen Bundy (07:38)
People with strong bones, David!
Tom Hardon (07:38)
Didn't your parents ever have you
drink milk? Michael Jordan would be disappointed in you with the Got Milk campaign.
David Howman (07:42)
Austin,
Austen Bundy (07:45)
Stop it David, get some help!
Aya Abdeen (07:45)
⁓
David Howman (07:46)
no, you're, you said, you said people with strong bones. If you have strong bones, you don't need to drink milk. You drink milk to get strong bones.
Aya Abdeen (07:48)
Remember,
it got your fat!
I mean, yes, I mean the best way to have milk is to dip it with Oreo cookies. I, mind you, Oreos is the best cookie out there.
Austen Bundy (07:56)
Stronger bones.
Tom Hardon (07:58)
It keeps the dome strong.
David Howman (07:58)
⁓ yeah, yeah, okay.
Tom Hardon (08:04)
Yes. Yes.
David Howman (08:05)
Right.
But that's not drinking milk. It's an accessory to the food. You're not putting the glass back. Who's drinking milk? Why is that a comp- That's your comparison for eggnog being good? It's better than milk.
Aya Abdeen (08:13)
YES!
Austen Bundy (08:15)
You drink it.
Tom Hardon (08:21)
Dairy.
Aya Abdeen (08:22)
⁓ I got it.
Tom Hardon (08:23)
They're
both dairy products.
David Howman (08:26)
Okay.
Austen Bundy (08:28)
See you.
Tom Hardon (08:28)
But I'm not gonna
compare eggnog to water.
Austen Bundy (08:31)
Eggnog on its own though
David Howman (08:32)
I don't think you should have to compare
Tom Hardon (08:33)
you
David Howman (08:34)
it to anything if it's good.
Austen Bundy (08:36)
I can understand eggnog on its own being a little, people being timid towards eggnog on its own. See, you got to be able to pair it with the right things to be able to spice it up a little bit. And literally, I mean that because you take a glass of eggnog and you put a little bit of cinnamon in there. And if you're in my family, the tradition is you take a little bit of fireball whiskey and you pour it in and you mix it in there.
Tom Hardon (09:01)
Fireball or DeSarono is a good option as well.
David Howman (09:01)
So it sounds like you're covering up the flavor.
Austen Bundy (09:05)
You
David Howman (09:08)
It's like when the first time I ever had grits and I thought it was the most disgusting thing ever and then my mom was like, well, you gotta put butter on it. You gotta pour maple syrup on it. I'm like, well, if you gotta put all those things on there to change the flavor, maybe you don't like grits. That's how I feel you guys are talking about eggnog. ⁓ You put some absinthe in there, you cover it in cinnamon.
Austen Bundy (09:27)
See ya.
See, I would say this is just your white taste buds coming in, but the fact that you didn't like grits tells me they're not even white taste buds. It's something else entirely.
Andrew Hayslett (09:46)
I also don't like grits.
Tom Hardon (09:46)
Yeah, I can see David's
take on, you why do you have to add something to it to make it good? That's why I didn't want to say anything about adding spices or liquor of choice to it.
Austen Bundy (09:58)
Well, Eggnog's already good on its own, but if you enhance it with those things, it's even better. They're enhancements.
Tom Hardon (10:04)
There we go.
David Howman (10:05)
But that's not what you said at first. You said you gotta spice it up. It's about how you pair it. It should stay on its own. It should stay on its own.
Austen Bundy (10:11)
Yeah, because it's an experience. It's an experience. ⁓
David Howman (10:18)
Andrew's been quiet this entire time.
Andrew Hayslett (10:21)
Yeah, I have nothing to say.
Austen Bundy (10:26)
Andrew remembers how he got flamed during the Thanksgiving debate, so he's just staying out of it.
David Howman (10:31)
Well.
Tom Hardon (10:32)
He's not picking this battle.
Andrew Hayslett (10:36)
I truly have no stance on it.
Austen Bundy (10:40)
Okay, Aaron Burr.
David Howman (10:43)
So what's your what's your what's your go-to Christmas food then if it's not eggnog? We're getting something out of you tonight.
Andrew Hayslett (10:53)
Come back to me later. That's a good question.
Austen Bundy (10:54)
Hahaha!
Aya Abdeen (10:56)
I have to say hot chocolate is the best way to go when it comes to winter.
Austen Bundy (11:02)
Can't go wrong with hot chocolate.
Tom Hardon (11:04)
Can't have Christmas without Christmas cookies either though.
Andrew Hayslett (11:07)
⁓ yeah, I love
Christmas cookies. Sugar cookies with frosted and sprinkles.
Tom Hardon (11:10)
or
holiday cookies.
David Howman (11:13)
What is Christmas cookies? What is holiday cookies? Does any cookie go?
Austen Bundy (11:18)
David.
Tom Hardon (11:20)
So ⁓ my mom and I, we usually do a holiday cookie baking day. we do what we call tarantulas in our family. Other people call them haystacks. There's other regional names based on where you're from. basically, they are chow mein noodles. And then you boil down butterscotch or semi-sweet chocolate chips.
David Howman (11:32)
tarantulas.
Really.
Tom Hardon (11:47)
and you stir the noodle, like the dried chow mein noodles, and let them dry and sit.
Austen Bundy (11:52)
Flag on the play, we're talking cookies here and you're going noodles?
David Howman (11:53)
Level plus.
Tom Hardon (11:56)
Yeah, drive charm angels.
David Howman (11:57)
Chow mein noodles
in cookies.
Tom Hardon (12:01)
dried chow mein noodles, then stir them into either melted butterscotch or semi-sweet chocolate. Let them dry and set, cover in sprinkles.
Austen Bundy (12:11)
Sir, that is just Buddy the Elf spaghetti.
Tom Hardon (12:16)
That's why I said dried noodles, not cooked noodles.
Austen Bundy (12:18)
You
David Howman (12:23)
I'm completely speechless. I've never in my life heard of chow mein noodles being used to make any noodles for the record for cookies. And you call them tarantulas. Look at the spider.
Tom Hardon (12:36)
My family calls them tarantulas.
Other people in Arizona that have grown up here have called them haystacks. I'm sure there's other names for them from the Midwest.
David Howman (12:45)
So
every Christmas you eat just, you eat a handful of tarantulas.
Austen Bundy (12:46)
Never heard of him.
Tom Hardon (12:50)
Basically,
The only spider I like.
Austen Bundy (12:55)
This week on Fear Factor.
Tom Hardon (12:57)
Thank
David Howman (12:58)
Yeah, I...
Man.
Tom Hardon (13:01)
Yeah, connect me to Johnny Knoxville, I'll get on the show.
David Howman (13:04)
Yeah.
Austen Bundy (13:07)
See, it's funny, I just got done ⁓ rolling and making a bunch of dough and stuff for cookies with my mom upstairs. We do these mint cookies, they're like dark chocolate cookies with like an Andes mint pressed into it after they're done baking, so it melts and you spread it around. We do snickerdoodles. ⁓
David Howman (13:07)
I'm.
Austen Bundy (13:31)
We do these like dark chocolate ⁓ ginger cookies, which are my personal favorite. I love those. You roll those in sugar, some crystallized sugar and bake them. What else do we do?
Tom Hardon (13:43)
Peanut butter kiss cookies
are another favorite of mine.
David Howman (13:46)
That's a good one.
Austen Bundy (13:46)
Yep,
we're doing those too. Yep. And then there's one where we do, ⁓ it's like we call them cereal cookies. So, you know, like the special K cereal. We take, you take that and you mix it into ⁓ just like an oatmeal cookie type of batter ⁓ and some, you throw some cranberries in there, dark chocolate, and they're really good when they come out. They're real crunchy and crumbly when they come out.
Andrew Hayslett (13:47)
My mom was just...
David Howman (14:12)
Cranberries.
Austen Bundy (14:14)
damn it, David.
David Howman (14:15)
I didn't... I didn't... I didn't... ⁓
Andrew Hayslett (14:17)
So, Tom, this is what you're making?
Tom Hardon (14:21)
Yep, yep, those are exactly what I'm making.
Andrew Hayslett (14:26)
They look like french fries.
Tom Hardon (14:29)
You know, I can see that, just, you but they're one of those things that like, if you've never had them, and like, I wouldn't say go out of your way to make them, like they are good, but try them before you judge them.
Austen Bundy (14:45)
So what you're telling me is it sounds like you're have to bake a bunch and then mail them out to us for some taste tests on the next episode.
David Howman (14:50)
Yeah. Yeah. Do you ever pair your tarantulas with eggnog?
Tom Hardon (14:50)
Yeah, basically.
I mean, I will have them in addition to eggnog. I don't specifically pair them with the eggnog because the eggnog is delicious on its own.
Austen Bundy (15:06)
Hahaha
David Howman (15:07)
Okay, you
Austen Bundy (15:10)
What a diplomatic answer.
David Howman (15:14)
All right, so we've got hot chocolate, we've got cookies, we may or may not have eggnog. What's the main entree on your table on Christmas? Because turkey is Thanksgiving, but I feel like there's a lot of different answers you get here.
Tom Hardon (15:23)
I'll start.
I'll start with this one. Another family tradition we do, we'll get a nice big eye around from the butcher counter and cook that up. My grandpa had a recipe that we've used for years and years. Comes out perfectly, very rare, like very delicatessen style and makes excellent roast beef sandwiches the next day.
Andrew Hayslett (15:56)
My family does it.
David Howman (15:56)
I don't
have an issue with that one.
Andrew Hayslett (16:00)
My family does a shot, ⁓ Chateaubriand.
David Howman (16:07)
I know what that is. I'm a man of culture. I know what that is and it's delicious.
Austen Bundy (16:07)
You're gonna have to explain that one to me.
Tom Hardon (16:09)
I mean it sounds French
so...
Andrew Hayslett (16:16)
I think it's some sort of steak. I don't know. I just eat. That's not something I... I, ⁓ learn.
Tom Hardon (16:17)
Thank
David Howman (16:21)
You are corrupt.
Austen Bundy (16:27)
Bon Noil.
I come from a Hispanic household. ⁓ So we do, there's multiple different stages to this. So Christmas Eve is what we celebrate more than Christmas day. And we kind of follow more the ⁓ Italian, like Iberian ⁓ tradition, which is seven types of seafood or seven types of seven fishes for dinner. So we'll try and find like we'll do. ⁓
places that either do paella, seafood paella, so you can get some shrimp, calamari, whatever their fish of the day is, octopus, ⁓ what else, ⁓ mussels. ⁓
That's five. I don't know what the other two we figure it out. We try to get seven in there at some point, but Christmas Eve is usually what we celebrate the most that Christmas morning or literally the whole week. We do tamales. My family's from Guatemala, so we do Christmas tamales. ⁓ And then Christmas day evening, we do usually a tither. Some years it'll be pork. Some years it'll be like a a roast beast. ⁓
type dish. But yeah, it's relatively the same. We try to go through each of the cultures. Like my mom's side of the family is Hispanic. My dad is American white. So we try to combine the two when we do the Christmas Eve, Christmas Day main meals.
David Howman (18:04)
I couldn't tell you the last time I had a good tamale. That's... Because I grew up in Arizona, like, I didn't... That was probably the food that I had the least of, like, the Mexican food area. And then when I got out to Oklahoma and there's Slim Pickens out there, I was like, man, if I could, like, I could just crush some tamales right now. And maybe that's what I'll have when I...
Tom Hardon (18:29)
Thank
David Howman (18:32)
when I go home. Maybe I'll, Austin, you can ship some to me and I'll have some.
Austen Bundy (18:37)
You got to find
that hole in the wall place. The one that looks like a real greasy spoon doesn't look like it's an actual restaurant. You know, taking the back of someone's truck. Those are the best.
David Howman (18:43)
Yeah.
I've always grown up, I think growing up, like we had a different entree like every year. I feel like it changed. ⁓ So I don't know. It was always a different thing every year, but I think like generally all the sides were the same sides from Thanksgiving though. Like we just kind of brought those back. It's only a month away. So it's just like, let's just bring those back into rotation. Added some cookies, you the snickerdoodles.
⁓ You know, lots of different things.
Tom Hardon (19:22)
We'll do some variation on the sides. Like there will still be a potato, but you know for Christmas it'll be baked potato instead of mashed potatoes.
Although this year I'm doing scalloped potatoes.
David Howman (19:36)
I don't know.
Gallop potato, that's a good... A lot of different things you can do with a potato.
Austen Bundy (19:44)
Scallops, there's fish number six.
Andrew Hayslett (19:47)
you
Tom Hardon (19:47)
Hahaha!
David Howman (19:53)
Well, there's lots of different, lots of fish in the sea, if you will, ⁓ when it comes to different food options at Christmas. But one area where there's not a lot of different fish in the sea ⁓ is in the coaching ranks. You like how I kind of spun that all together?
Austen Bundy (20:15)
Got there eventually,
it works.
David Howman (20:18)
I'm wearing comfortable shoes, which is good because I had to walk a long way to get there. But, you know, the coaching carousel continues to spin in college football. And of course, there was a lot of stress, a lot of concern over ASU if they were going to be able to get a contract done with Kenny Dillingham because the Michigan job came open suddenly and abruptly and...
immediately all the reports were saying Kenny Dillingham was one of their top choices and and you know if you were chronically online the way that I am it went from being he's definitely leaving to Michigan to no we got him wrapped up to actually no he's already signed with Michigan to no actually no he just signed the contract and he's talking about it and ASU got their guy they already had their guy but they kept him he re-upped with a contract extension
a meaningful bump in pay, a very meaningful bump in his salary pool to retain a lot of key assistance to expand some of the staff resources off the field that he has and keeps him in Tempe for the foreseeable future, notably fending off Michigan, which is a pretty impressive feat all the way around. was a great job done by ASU's administration, Kenny Dillingham.
did a great job of negotiating to get all the things he was asking for to help ASU football continue to be what they've been the last two years. And just collectively lets us all let out a sigh of relief. What was everybody's stress level ⁓ before the deal got done? Were people hitting the panic button here?
Tom Hardon (22:07)
I was a three out of 10. Very, very low stress. And I said about it on our previous show as the rumor started to swirl about what can he leave for Ann Arbor or not. And my take all of last week as everything was going left, right, and center is he already came to Arizona State under
David Howman (22:10)
Okay, not concerned.
Tom Hardon (22:36)
institutional crisis following his predecessor and why would he want to step into a Mercure situation at Michigan with a head coach that was dismissed for a much worse situation plus an athletic department that is
You know, in shambles almost, you know, why would he want to step into that situation? Why would he want to leave the family support structure that he and his wife have in place here in the valley?
and uproot and start somewhere completely new. Yes, if Michigan backed up 12 Brinks trucks into his driveway, all that money could buy all the childcare and support structure that you could ever need. But it's not the same as when you're firmly entrenched with family basically right down the street. So I was never worried that Kenny was going to leave. All week long, I had the inclination
the inclination that he was using this leverage to get that bigger salary pool for his assistance and try and leverage some kind of ⁓ promise or guarantee of greater NIL resources from the university or.
other donors that that needed convincing to step up and and bring Arizona State up to the level of of these big boys in the NIL area. Again, you can't really quantify.
the NIL investment at this point, but I think what he got from the university is exactly what he was looking for and what he was trying to leverage with the Michigan rumors swirling around.
Aya Abdeen (24:30)
Definitely. mean, I was at the press conference where athletic director Graham Rossini was speaking to the reporters yesterday, like before the San Diego's women's basketball team took on Colorado, which not a surprise, they got another winner, which we will talk about later. But Rossini ⁓ talked about about it.
Austen Bundy (24:31)
play.
Tom Hardon (24:38)
I just need.
Thank ⁓
Aya Abdeen (24:56)
sustainability and longevity as a success to building a successful football program, which I'm really happy that.
Tom Hardon (24:56)
Thank
Aya Abdeen (25:06)
that the Sun Devils have agreed to an extension with Kenny Dillingham. And I mean, I have to add in as well, there was rumors by a reporter who is associated with Koushi on Friday that Kenny Dillingham would be going to Michigan, in which there was misinformation, which, well, C.D. said that he was surprised that he saw some misinformation for sure. So just wanted to add in that as well.
Tom Hardon (25:19)
Thank
Thank you.
Thank
Austen Bundy (25:34)
I'm going to play a little hindsight devil's advocate here for those who kept thinking ⁓ that Kenny was going to Michigan or why they thought he would be going to Michigan. Even though Michigan's athletic department is certainly imploding on itself, there's going to be an investigation, heads are going to roll. I think this is going to have a significant ripple effect across not just that university, not just the Big Ten, but probably all of college football. ⁓
David Howman (25:34)
Yeah, definitely. ⁓
Austen Bundy (26:03)
As much as that athletic department is in a very murky situation, uncertain future, going to Michigan, if Kenny were to have gone to Michigan, the donors and the money that pool would have still been there. Those, those go blue boosters were not going anywhere. They weren't going to abandon the program. You weren't going to see any dip in.
The amount of money they'd be able to offer NIL-wise, which would stabilize a little bit of the recruiting pool. The only reason I feel like they would probably lose recruits or anybody who's already there is just because of the fact that you're now associated with a program that has gone through two gigantic scandals in span of five years. But that being said, mean, Kenny staying here, ASU still needs that level of donors. They still need, like he said in his comments to the press just a day or two ago,
that somebody needs to step up and write that big check where I mean, just to throw that out there, it's sad that we've gotten to this point in college football that we're talking about something like that. ⁓ But he's not wrong. The state of the sport is if you need if you're going to compete with anybody who's in the college football playoff right now, if you're going to be there consistently, you need that type of money. You need that type of ⁓ commitment from boosters, from donors in order to
get those big recruits in order to have the facilities necessary to develop players. ⁓ just the fact that ASU has the environment, literally has the environment to attract high quality talent. what you can't tell me there are no players out there who would see Tempe, would see Phoenix and see the facilities ASU has the stadium and think.
This is not a place you would want to play. would want to spend four years academically or just in a college environment. The problem is it's missing the money. It's missing the prestige. When the money flows, the prestige will follow because you're going to have the type of recruits and the type of players that will want to go and play there, want to go and sign those agreements. And then the talent talent level is going to elevate the program to the level of prestige that will automatically
draw in more of those recruits like in ohio state like a georgia like in alabama well where it's just self-sustaining from there on forward so i think any of the i mean obviously were biased but he made the right decision i think when it comes to college football as a sport instead of being the type of guy who's gonna jump from program to program to uh... elevate his profile just go to the blue bloods that are looking to poach a lot of these uh... high-quality up-and-coming coaches
that'll bring over some of their recruits that are, ⁓ Jaden Daniels asked where they're not getting the type of playing time and exposure that they need in whatever program they're in. And as soon as you insert them into a Blue Blood program, you insert them into the SEC, ⁓ they thrive and they become Heisman ⁓ caliber players. So Kenny overall for the sport made the right decision so that ASU and other schools now have a precedent to point to.
when trying to even the playing field in this NIL, in this CFP era, in the big, big donor era. ⁓ Overall, this was exactly what the sport needed. This is exactly what ASU needed. And I'm glad that Michael Crowe, Graham Racini respected that and rewarded the loyalty ⁓ exactly how they should have.
Tom Hardon (29:37)
I want to extend an opinion regarding at least the culture of athletic market, so to speak, for the entire state of Arizona. ⁓ Yes.
David Howman (29:49)
That's such a polite
way to start off too. I would like to extend an opinion.
Tom Hardon (29:53)
⁓ Yes, Phoenix is one of the, I think, top 10 most populous city in the country, one of the largest, one of the larger media markets in the country. But when you think in the scope of athletics, or just of sports, and I'm talking about professional sports as well, Arizona is a medium market at the most generous.
The Diamondbacks are consistently in the lower third of payrolls in Major League Baseball. Some of that is a byproduct of ownership and deals that they do or do not make. The Suns are largely, they can almost get to that final step, but trip at the finish line and.
I know the suns are kind of good for ⁓ a one really good year every eight to 10 years and then it's middling to rebuilding in between. The Cardinals exist. That's about the best thing I can say about them. But it extends to college athletics in my opinion as well. Arizona State and for what it's worth our neighbors to the south.
David Howman (31:01)
Sounds like a threat, almost.
Tom Hardon (31:12)
I think are still generally, both universities are trying to punch through that next tier. And there's just a very limited interest level in the state as a whole. you see it in the, like I said, you see it in the professional ranks and it sends down to college as well. It doesn't necessarily matter.
Whether it's people associated with each university or just local businesses wanting to invest, there's just a very low level of interest from the community at large.
David Howman (31:51)
I think a large part of that too has to deal with the population in the state to an extent. ⁓ you know, my perspective as a native Arizonan who, I mean, when I grew up, I was like, hey, I've always lived here. I didn't know that that was like a rare thing. And then I started thinking, somebody pointed it out and I realized like, I don't know many people that were born and raised in Arizona. And it's just kind of that state, you know, if you grew up in the Midwest.
If you grew up on the Northeast, like you come to Arizona to get away from that cold weather. And that's a large part of the population. And most of those people grew up rooting for Nebraska or Penn State or ⁓ whatever one of the good ACC teams is besides Miami. ⁓ Duke, I guess. I don't know.
Austen Bundy (32:41)
Flaps in.
David Howman (32:43)
And so then they still root for those teams and then their kids grow up rooting for those teams. And so there's not really a whole lot of like generational fandom for ASU or for any of these pro teams. Cause a lot of them are in the grand scheme of things newer to the area. so, you know, one thing that I've gone back to a few times is ironically, I'm going to a big 10 school, Minnesota.
And PJ Fleck, one of the things that he spoke about when he first got there was how he was like, see, I see all these people that, you know, born and raised here in Minnesota and they're cheering for Michigan. They're cheering for Ohio State. And what he started doing early on in his tenure in Minnesota was they would do like, ⁓ friends, like kids and family night or something. And like during the off season, they bring people onto the football field. got to see the
meet the players and things like that and they would give out as much free swag as they could. Just like basically throwing it at people like Oprah, you know? Like you get a t-shirt, you get a t-shirt. And it was like, you know, it's not going to work for everybody, but eventually these kids just grow up with Minnesota swag and you know, by osmosis almost, they start rooting for Minnesota. Now obviously, you know, Minnesota doesn't have the fan base that any other Big Ten school does.
But the idea of it being like kind of investing in the future generations that can grow up Sun Devil fans. But then also the other piece that has to go with it is you have to actually have success. know, PJ Fleck has been relatively successful at Minnesota. So we'll see how things kind of manifest down the road there. But ASU has too much inconsistency. You know, you can go down the road the last, you know, five or six regimes and you've got coaches that...
Tom Hardon (34:25)
Thank
David Howman (34:34)
have some success and then they don't and then they get fired. And so for Kenny Dillingham, we're only three years in, you know, he's at the stage right now where Todd Graham was not too long ago where it was like, he had some successful seasons, but can he sustain it? And now we're at the point where Kenny Dillingham has had that success and it has been so successful that he almost left or, you know, almost in quotation marks. But for the first time in...
Tom Hardon (34:47)
Thank
David Howman (35:04)
A very long time ASU came really, really close to losing a coach because he was getting poached by another program as opposed to he lost momentum and we had to fire him. And so when I think about going forward and building that that fandom. If you can have that consistency and everything points to Kenny, Willie him should be able to do that. This could be kind of the turning point of like, hey, we know what we have worked.
doubling down, we're keeping it, we're committing to it. And that's not something that this fan base is even slightly used to. And I think that could be like the turning point for this program.
Aya Abdeen (35:47)
100%. I agree with you on that, David. And adding in to what Dillingham, how he has transformed a program from when they were dealing with some scandals in which they had a four-fate semifinal wins from the 2021 to 23 season to now be one of the participants in the college football playoffs earlier this year, even though they were so close to winning over
Tom Hardon (35:54)
Thank
and the way that I think we're playing this game is that we're still playing for the military, and we're still playing for the
Aya Abdeen (36:17)
over tech sex, but...
I mean, what Kenny Dilliam has done to transform his program into where they are today, it's pretty huge. the big question is, as you said, can he sustain that success for sure? We will have to find out. mean, Graham Racini, he is such an amazing athletics director, given all the files what he has done throughout the past few years as an athletic director. bought it, first he bought in Dilliam and then he also bought in Molly Miller and JJ
Tom Hardon (36:20)
Thank you.
This is what we
Aya Abdeen (36:49)
Van Neil and look at the women's basketball and volleyball programs right now. Women's basketball they have not having one of their best seasons yet which they are still undefeated with 14-0 and women's volleyball they were so close to Klichy and spot tuning in Elite 8 but they fell to to create who has more experience in the NCAA tournament. So this is just the beginning for the Sun Devil Athletics and I'm excited to see what more they have in store for the next few years for sure.
David Howman (36:50)
Thank
Tom Hardon (36:51)
Thank
you.
Thank
Thank
David Howman (37:19)
Yeah, and with Rossini too, I mean, for how much we talk about Kenny Dillingham of like, he's one of us, he's a Sun Devil, know? mean, Graham Rossini is in the same boat. And I think, you know, it's not always the case that like you go out and you hire an alum and they're just always going to be loyal to you. Cough, cough Oregon State. But somebody like Graham Rossini and you hear him talk and you hear the way that he talks about
Just sports in general. Like I remember when he first got hired or when he was first promoted to the AD spot and they were asking him questions about, you know, renovating, ⁓ desert financial arena. And he was saying, he's like, guys, I'm, I'm six, five. Like when I sit in those seats, it hurts my knees. Like, I get it. Like he's somebody who's out there and active and among the fan base. Like he, he knows what the fan base wants because he's one of them. Just like when Kenny Dillingham was crowd surfing.
And he's like, I was one of these guys not too long ago. It's like these guys understand what it is to be a Sun Devil, what it means to have that kind of success. And so Tom, I was just like you, I had zero concern. I was actually a one out of 10. If we can go down to zero, I was a zero out of 10 in my concern because I knew one Kenny Dillingham, as long as he feels that there is support.
Tom Hardon (38:19)
Thank ⁓
David Howman (38:45)
in Tempe that he has the administration support, even if it's not where he'd like it to be, because what he would like it to be is Texas Tech and they can't be at the Texas Tech level just yet. As long as he feels that there's support, he's going to stay because he's committed to Arizona State. And I also knew that Graham Racini is the kind of guy that he is going to be committed to having that kind of support. Like he's going to do what he can to have that support. And
Tom Hardon (38:58)
Thanks.
David Howman (39:14)
For as much ⁓ criticism as there is out there about Michael Crow, the university president, ⁓ I think he gets a bad rap. I think a lot of people, they see how much he focuses on education and think that that means that he doesn't care about athletics. And I think that's ⁓ a misunderstanding of him. ⁓ I mean, he's the university president.
Tom Hardon (39:24)
Thank
David Howman (39:42)
Fundamentally, his number one job is to focus on the education. And without question, he has done a phenomenal job in that regard. The value of an Arizona State diploma has gone up considerably from when he first took over. ⁓ But he also does care deeply about athletics. He wants ASU to be great at athletics. But his background isn't in sports administration. So that's why he brings in somebody like Graham Orsini and he says, hey, like,
do what you gotta do to make these things great. And he's got somebody in Grand Mercini who knows what to do, who's gonna get it done. And I think that's an important component to have because you could also have the kind of the setup that a lot of SEC schools have where the president or chancellor is heavily involved and sometimes even the state governor is heavily involved. And that can be a detriment because you're very much at the whims of
somebody who doesn't actually work in sports administration who's just kind of like, ⁓ I woke up this morning and I didn't like the coach. And so just fired him. Or in Alabama, they're talking about how, know, Alabama fans are talking about how they would be happy to lose Kailin DeBoer to Michigan because he's not as good as Nick Saban. And then they go and pull off an incredible comeback win in the playoffs. So ⁓ I think it's a good thing that Michael Crowe is
the way that he is because it empowers somebody like Graham Racina to do what he does, which in turn empowers Kenny Dillingham to do what he does. So as unpopular as it might be to say, thank you, President Michael Crow.
Tom Hardon (41:20)
And for anybody who says that Michael Crowe doesn't focus on athletics enough, it bears reminding that these are student athletes. Emphasis on students.
Andrew Hayslett (41:21)
Alright.
Austen Bundy (41:34)
Also, we're in a hockey school in the desert. Like, if he's not focusing on athletic programs, like, come on, we turned a desert school into a hockey school. Like, come on.
Andrew Hayslett (41:35)
I agree with you.
I agree with what David said. I think Michael Crowe gets too much hate. And I also agree that I was at a one, two. I just didn't think Kenny Dillingham was leaving after he really didn't entertain the idea of going to Penn State or LSU. Cause if he did at that point, I would have been more worried, but he didn't. So I don't think the Michigan job.
Only because they're trying to force it isn't gonna make it happen from certain media outlets who shall not be named. ⁓ Looking at certain people, Josh Pate for one. ⁓ So.
Aya Abdeen (42:32)
Ha! LOL. ⁓
Tom Hardon (42:33)
Subtle.
David Howman (42:36)
You got something in your
throat there, Andrew?
Andrew Hayslett (42:37)
Yeah, just he was never leaving. I didn't believe any of it. Just people take bits and pieces of things that they want to hear and say, ⁓ yep, he's leaving. When the full story is right in front of them and they're clearly, they clearly missed it. So, simple as that.
David Howman (43:01)
Yeah.
Well, and the other thing too is, I mean, the negotiations were ongoing and the negotiations were happening in the media. And that, I mean, that happens pretty often in a lot of different areas. ⁓ I think it felt so foreign to us because again, ASU has not really been in this situation. ⁓
Realistically, the last time it happened was John Cooper when Ohio State poached him and Twitter didn't exist back then. And Kalshi and Polymarket also did not exist. Thank God. ⁓
To me, was like, again, as a Dallas Cowboys fan, where every single negotiation on anything happens through the media, even when it's negotiating, getting a curtain to go over the window so that the sun doesn't shine in the face of the players, all of that has to happen through the media. And so I'm very numb to that at this point. ⁓ But that's what a lot of it felt like, especially with Josh Pate, for example. He is somebody who...
As he said many times throughout this process, I'm close with Kenny Dillingham. I know Kenny Dillingham. Kenny talks to me. Like you know, there's things that get put out there to help apply pressure to the ASU side as they're going through these negotiations, and that's just part of the game. And you know when it's when it's Lane Kiffin during the season on the road to the college football playoff, it can get very frustrating in this situation. I think Kenny Dillingham handled it very well. I think his agent did a masterful job.
of kind of, you know, being the puppet master, making everything, you know, applying pressure. And I think Graham Racini made a really great point. I don't remember if it was in the press conference that he held or in a follow up interview afterwards, but somebody asked him about like how many emails he got from people. And he was saying like, yeah, I got thousands of emails. And you know, saying like, hey, you need to give Kenny Dillingham what he wants. And he said,
It's great because now I'm going to save all those emails and I'm going to reach out to all of them to donate to ASU football because we got our guy. Now you got to back him. So which again goes back to like we got the right guys in place. But I was I was not stressed at any point throughout the process. I was just sitting back waiting for it to officially happen. Happy that it did. You know, very, very
excited that it did. ⁓ But now comes the next question of where do they go from here? Because we've got the money for the coaches, know, maybe got the money for the players. That's not something that they actually, I don't think they're allowed to put it in writing, but there will be money, then there will be players. And now it's transfer portal season. And notably, big
big loss ⁓ is Sam Levitt. I don't think he's technically announced yet. Has he officially entered the portal?
Andrew Hayslett (46:16)
I don't think the portal opens for a little while, but I don't think he's even announced that he's intending to go in at this point either.
Austen Bundy (46:16)
Not that I have seen.
Tom Hardon (46:16)
Thank you.
David Howman (46:23)
Right. Yeah, no, the portal
Tom Hardon (46:24)
Yeah, I think that.
David Howman (46:25)
doesn't open. Nobody's entered the portal.
Austen Bundy (46:28)
Thank
Tom Hardon (46:29)
Yeah, I don't think I don't think Sam has officially said, you know, I intend to enter the portal, but the writing is on the wall for people for us to ⁓ decipher as we will.
David Howman (46:37)
Yeah. Well,
Austen Bundy (46:37)
as a need to.
David Howman (46:40)
Kenny Dillingham quote tweeted one of the on three things that he was entering the portal and said did his usual like anybody that gets him would be getting a great player. And I was like, I mean, when your own head coach is saying something like that, I don't know, it seems kind of official.
Austen Bundy (46:58)
I don't think Sam ever intended to put out something like that, especially considering the reception of him not being at the senior awards. ⁓ what type of reception you got from that. think he's going to try and quietly just like put his name in the portal and somebody's going to report Sam Levitt's name is in the transfer portal. And that's how it's going to happen. And he might put out like a thank you, Sun Devils message or whatever, and, and endure whatever hate messages he gets from that. But I mean, he'll eventually that's probably the only
David Howman (47:16)
Yeah.
Austen Bundy (47:27)
time we're going to hear from him on the issue.
David Howman (47:30)
Do we think the players raid his locker?
Andrew Hayslett (47:33)
No.
I don't know if there's anything to rate at this point, because I think he's known that he's leaving for some time.
Tom Hardon (47:44)
I'd imagine anything that that he wanted to bring from his locker is already gone and it's just you know Whatever's left is for the taking
David Howman (47:54)
Now, which, you know, an unfortunate end to, potential end to the Sam Levitt era, but what's everybody's concern level with finding the new quarterback? Do we, in Kenny Dillingham we trust, there's a lot of names out there. Well, there will be a lot of names out there once the portal actually opens.
Tom Hardon (48:11)
Thank
Andrew Hayslett (48:12)
Yeah, there's
There will be plenty of fruit to pick from, from what I've seen on Twitter, just even names in the Big 12. Soresby, Hoover, which I, who's a player I really like. And then there's what? Eight other conferences, if you want to count the pack, 12-9. I'll go back to two, so.
David Howman (48:36)
Rocko Becht is
may or may not be going to Penn State.
Tom Hardon (48:42)
Yep, John Ryle
is the one that I've seen.
Austen Bundy (48:45)
for Bula's in the Portal 2.
I feel for me, I'm looking at per Buola and I'm thinking he, I mean, if Drinkwitz stays at Missouri, he'll go wherever he wants to. But I I'm, I'm keeping an eye on Drinkwitz ends that Michigan job because I think if there's two candidates that I'm looking at, well, three, really, if there's three candidates I'm looking at that Michigan can go after it's Jed Fish, who's practically begging to be hired by Michigan at this point. ⁓ There Eli Drinkwitz, ⁓ who
who was hoping to Bower would take the Michigan job because then he would go put his name in the hat for the Alabama job. ⁓ Or Jeff Baum at Louisville who doesn't want to let me use a Louisville alarm. I don't think he wants to leave, but I mean, Michigan is Michigan. I think if Michigan were to give him a phone call and make him an offer, I don't think anybody refuses that.
David Howman (49:40)
I personally think, and I don't want to turn this into a Michigan show, but I think Brian Kelly's gonna end up in Michigan. It just feels so fitting.
Austen Bundy (49:46)
guys
Tom Hardon (49:47)
That would be the funniest thing ever.
David Howman (49:51)
It would be so perfect.
So I want that to happen. ⁓
What were we talking? Quarterbacks. Priebula would be a good fit. DJ Lagway from Florida, he's available. Colton Joseph. Aiden Childs is available. Another Michigan State quarterback. Would be the second time that Sam Levitt has left a program and Aiden Childs has come in after. I saw...
Austen Bundy (50:01)
HAHAHAHA
Tom Hardon (50:09)
Holden Joseph.
Austen Bundy (50:13)
Harvard's quarterback.
Michigan's backups in the portal.
Tom Hardon (50:26)
getting a familiar path
there.
David Howman (50:29)
I saw somebody mentioned ⁓ Jackson Arnold, the Auburn former OU quarterback. And that one just like feels right to me. Like that feels like a Kenny Dillingham Reclamation Project similar to Bo Nix. It's not who I would want, but it feels just like Kenny Dillingham going like, hey, I did this with Bo Nix. He had a rough go of it in the SEC and then had a great time at Oregon.
Obviously Kenny Dalyham knew Bo Nicks before he came to Oregon. He coached him at Auburn at one point. ⁓ But I mean Jackson Arnold, former five star player, like he's got all the raw tools. It's just a matter of being in the right system and I could see that being somebody that Kenny goes after. ⁓ Not saying he should, not saying I want it, but I can see that happening. ⁓ lot of options though. A lot of options.
Andrew Hayslett (51:23)
I think they're going to wind up.
Austen Bundy (51:23)
Underwood's backup at Michigan
is available too.
David Howman (51:30)
What's that?
Austen Bundy (51:33)
Sorry Andrew, go ahead. I think I talked over you there.
Andrew Hayslett (51:35)
You go first, Austin.
Austen Bundy (51:37)
I was just saying, think Underwood's backup at Michigan is also jumping in the portal. He was supposed to be the starter this year, but got beat out by Underwood ⁓ in camp.
Andrew Hayslett (51:53)
David appears to be looking at, I think they're going to wind up with someone who's going to be a junior or actually a senior this year as a one year stop gap to eventually Jake Fetty, which I, I, I, maybe two years as a possibility, but I think they're going to go after someone who's going to be a junior next year, just so that they can have that one year, one year guy to just bridge between what.
love it and fatty that that's that's what I think they're going to do.
Austen Bundy (52:27)
Go the Will Howard route with Ohio State because you had Julian Sayen there last year and Will Howard beat him out, but Sayen was impressive enough to potentially beat out Howard last year.
Andrew Hayslett (52:37)
Exactly.
Tom Hardon (52:38)
We brought this up a couple shows ago as well, whoever does come in, ⁓ if they go that junior senior route, could also be an attempt to bump up the play of both Jake Fetty and Cam Dyer, just to see what each of them brings to the table and how ⁓ maybe give us multiple options in the offense going forward.
David Howman (53:06)
Yeah, there's definitely going to be some options there. By the way, that Michigan quarterback, Jaden Davis. ⁓
I don't have anything else to add besides his name, but the Michigan quarterback battle was not something that I paid close attention to this year, but Jaden Davis was the backup and it looks like he's in the portal. So he may be available. He may be an option that they look at. ⁓ I've also seen that Hammond, the Texas Tech quarterback that started a few games, ⁓ famously lost to ASU, you know, only team that beat them.
Austen Bundy (53:20)
haha
David Howman (53:48)
no big deal he might be jumping in the portal and he could be potentially an option ⁓ there's lots of guys lots of guys out there
Aya Abdeen (53:58)
how the tables return.
David Howman (54:01)
I mean, it would be, it would be, maybe we don't want him though, if his only experience in Latin America Stadium is losing, but ⁓ exactly.
Austen Bundy (54:15)
Can't beat them, join them.
Tom Hardon (54:20)
Wasn't that the Kevin Durant strategy?
Austen Bundy (54:22)
We should go get Harvard's quarterback, bring him into the Harvard of the Southwest.
David Howman (54:30)
I like it. I'm on board. I don't know if, don't know his academics, but he probably would need to bump up his grades to get in.
Tom Hardon (54:33)
Just think about the marketing behind it.
Austen Bundy (54:43)
Yeah
David Howman (54:46)
⁓ But one last thing. What's that?
Austen Bundy (54:48)
Mill Avenue 101.
Needs to pass Mill Avenue 101.
David Howman (54:53)
Yeah. To quote Kenny Dillingham, Pukin Rally.
Austen Bundy (54:58)
You
David Howman (55:00)
⁓ One other thing I was going to touch on on football ⁓ was how Kenny Dillingham talked about like we need one of these rich alums to step up. And I wanted to just catch everybody off guard and ask the question, who should it be? Who should be the one alum? Let's call some people out here. Who's the one that's got to step up and write that check? Be our Phil Knight.
I got a name in mind, I guarantee nobody else is gonna get that name.
Austen Bundy (55:32)
Give me Jimmy Kimmel. I know he didn't graduate, but he's got the cash. He can do it.
David Howman (55:37)
He's got the money.
Tom Hardon (55:43)
Phil Mickelson, he's got all that live money.
David Howman (55:47)
He's been very active on Twitter recently in supportive Kenny and supportive football. ⁓ So I feel like, I mean, like what's he doing with the money right now?
Andrew Hayslett (56:02)
paying off his gambling debts. I know he has some of those. here's a name who isn't an alumni but has ties to the valley. How about Bob Parsons of GoDaddy and PXG?
Austen Bundy (56:04)
Yeah.
Tom Hardon (56:21)
I like that.
David Howman (56:21)
Thank you.
Andrew Hayslett (56:22)
He went to ⁓ Google says the University of Baltimore. And last I checked, they don't have a significant football program. So.
Austen Bundy (56:22)
This is David.
David Howman (56:32)
But they
could if he starts down-atting.
Austen Bundy (56:36)
Does David Spade still have a whole lot of that early 2000s comedy money?
Andrew Hayslett (56:36)
true, but-
David Howman (56:40)
He needs another Adam Sandler movie first. Once we get Grown Ups 5, he can do it.
Austen Bundy (56:47)
Emperor's new groove too
David Howman (56:51)
I'm down.
Tom Hardon (56:52)
Joe.
Austen Bundy (56:54)
You
David Howman (56:58)
Alright, so the name I have, I'm gonna tell you guys the name and then I'm gonna ask some, I'm gonna see if anybody can guess what his claim to fame is. Chris Cohan.
Austen Bundy (57:13)
I got nothing.
Andrew Hayslett (57:14)
Deloitte guy.
David Howman (57:16)
Deloitte guy? No. That's a good guess. No, he's...
Austen Bundy (57:19)
Is he like the
Rafi? Is he like Rafi? A lawyer or something?
David Howman (57:29)
I love that. No, he's the former owner of the Golden State Warriors before they got good. He owned them for a stretch in the 90s and I think the early 2000s is when he sold them. ⁓ And wasn't exactly beloved by Warriors fans. They were very excited when he sold the team. ⁓ And to be clear,
Austen Bundy (57:30)
haha
David Howman (57:57)
It's not like the Warriors immediately started winning championships after he sold the team, but it didn't happen while he owned the team. But ⁓ he hasn't really emerged a whole lot since then. But I mean, you know, if you got money to buy an NBA team, you probably got some money. He sold the team and I'm sure he made some money off of it. He went to ASU. graduated from Arizona State. ⁓ Says in the 70s.
I think. ⁓ So, you know, he also would have kind of an understanding of what ASU football has been, what it can be. And I think in some way, if he could be like our Phil Knight, I don't think he has Phil Knight money, but if he could like come in and help kind of set the program forward on this new path, like it would kind of, you know, help reshape his legacy after the Warriors.
know, ASU fans would love Chris Cohen. They'd be like, Chris Cohen, like, that's our guy. And Warriors fans will just be sitting there mad that somebody is saying nice things about him, which is an added bonus, I think. You know, get, ASU football gets to be successful. You make Warriors fans mad in the process. So Mr. Cohen, if you're listening, I'm sure you are. Give a little cash, you know, write a check, just a little bit, see what happens. Just one mil.
Tom Hardon (59:24)
Here's a wild card for you as well. ⁓ Joe Shane, the CEO of U-Haul. The marketing's right there. Make that big donation and with players that transfer in, will U-Haul you in?
Austen Bundy (59:25)
I read.
Aya Abdeen (59:41)
That's hilarious.
Austen Bundy (59:44)
I was going say it sure as heck is not Joe Shane, General Manager of the New York Giants. I would have known that. I regret to inform you we will not be getting any of Rafi Law Group's money as Brandon B. Laffey went to U of A.
David Howman (59:48)
I saw Austin physically cringe.
Well, I'm glad I ⁓ never used his legal services. Glad for a few reasons. But yes, that's our pitch. Millionaires, millionaires and billionaires listening, that's our pitch. ⁓ Just spare a couple mill and see what happens. Use some fun money. ⁓ I'm sure Kenny is good for it.
Austen Bundy (1:00:08)
You
Was a pretty, is a producer
West that usually says consider Arizona state.
Tom Hardon (1:00:33)
He's one of the many, yes.
David Howman (1:00:34)
Yeah.
Yep, consider Arizona State for your next ⁓ I don't know if it's tax deductible when you donate to, I feel like it's probably not.
Anybody know?
Andrew Hayslett (1:00:50)
I don't know.
David Howman (1:00:52)
Andrew, I know you don't know. You haven't done taxes. Yeah. Enjoy it while it's there. Once you start owing taxes, it's all downhill from there.
Austen Bundy (1:00:53)
Tax law was not part of my master's program.
Andrew Hayslett (1:00:57)
Yeah, I don't make enough money to pay to-
Tom Hardon (1:01:07)
donations to Sun Angel are generally tax deductible.
David Howman (1:01:08)
Right on.
Sun Angel being the Sun Angel Collective. Yeah. What?
Tom Hardon (1:01:17)
Sun Angel Foundation, yes.
Austen Bundy (1:01:24)
Is that Sun Angel Foundation?
Tom Hardon (1:01:25)
Yes.
David Howman (1:01:26)
⁓
yes.
But if it's tax-deductible, it's to the, I don't know why I'm asking you, you're not a CPA.
Tom Hardon (1:01:39)
I do finance, but I'm not that into it.
David Howman (1:01:39)
You're doing this.
Well, either way, whether it's deductible or not, Phil Mickelson can spare a little bit of money. And, you know, now that they've retained their incredible coach and speaking of incredible coaches, pivoting to Molly Miller and the women's basketball program, like Aya alluded to earlier, 14 and 0. 14 and 0, it's the best start in program history. They clinched best start in program history a while ago now.
Tom Hardon (1:01:46)
Peace out.
David Howman (1:02:15)
and they just keep winning. They survived a couple of skaters in their non-conference schedule, beating Oregon State on the road, beating Gonzaga on the road, started Big 12 play on Sunday against Colorado. And Colorado has been pretty decent in their basketball program this year in the last couple of years. So getting a win over them, they won handily in that one. Like this is a really, really good team.
Aya Abdeen (1:02:35)
Yet I hope.
So mean, adding on to the win, the Sun Devils have had very impressive, really good consistencies throughout the season from the bench to the starters, which you can see ⁓ different players step up each game. I mean, how the Sun Devils have different types of weapons, starting with Gabby Elliott and Marley Washnitz, I mean.
What an impressive turnaround that they've had. Last year, they had a record of 10-22, and they had Natasha Ider as its head coach. At the end as well, that was my second season covering the women's basketball as a digital reporter when I was with the state press. now, ⁓ how the tables turned. mean, it's pretty cool getting the opportunity to report for women's basketball once again here for the devil's in detail, which it's my dirty year.
the team and this is the most consistent team I have ever seen from the top to the bottom, which is, I am really excited to see what more they have and especially how they can continue their conference play.
David Howman (1:03:57)
Yeah, no, mean, they've been, they're just fun to watch too. Like Aya said, a different person steps up every game. like, I mean, think Gabby Elliott has probably been their most consistent scorer, but Marlee Washington, it's, mean, every single game I look at her stat line and it's like, she almost will get like a quintuple double every game, because she gets the points, the rebounds, the assists, she gets steals. ⁓
every now and then she'll block some shots. it's just, you look at, she does a little bit of everything. And ⁓ during, I think it was during the Gonzaga game, I was watching that and I tweeted that Marley Washington says, would happen if Kim Scataboo played basketball? And I'm like, it's, that's the best way to explain her game. And it's just so fun.
Tom Hardon (1:04:31)
Thank
Thank
Aya Abdeen (1:04:46)
Literally.
David Howman (1:04:54)
It's fun watching her play. fun watching the entire team play. They have so much grit. Their defense is so good. And the way that they all play together as a team, the job that Molly Miller's done, like majority of this team is brand new there. She almost primarily built the team through the transfer portal ⁓ and they've come together so quickly with the team chemistry playing within the offense and the defense that Miller runs.
and it's just, you don't expect that kind of chemistry so quickly. Even Kenny Dillahan, when he first came onto the scene, he built the team primarily through the portal because he had to. And there were some good players, but they didn't necessarily have that team chemistry. And obviously there were other things going on in 2023, but it took a little bit for them to start really playing as a team. And with this basketball team, it's just, I mean, almost from the very
beginning like they've just they've just been in sync and they play ⁓ such a fun brand of basketball and for anybody who hasn't had a chance to check out their games they're always on ESPN plus if nothing else you can always you can always pop on over to devils in detail.com you can read an article it says how to watch it and it'll tell you exactly where ⁓ may or may not be written by yours truly so there's truly no excuse to miss these games
Tom Hardon (1:06:19)
Thank
Aya Abdeen (1:06:21)
For sure, mean getting to report at these women's basketball games, for the third consecutive year, it's such a gift that I have inside me. mean, coming from growing up in Phoenix, watching WNBA games, and I wish there was more coverage, but getting to see more attention that they have.
Tom Hardon (1:06:26)
No.
Thanks for coming out and listening.
Aya Abdeen (1:06:44)
Especially with Molly Miller's arrival as head coach. I'm just really proud to be a part of this season. It's just so special to see this team grow every single day. And I mean, what really stands out to me as well is McKenna Brackens. She leads the team of rebounds. She also has tons of double doubles. Mind you, I have lost track of how many she has. She's just so freaking impressive on both ends of the court.
Tom Hardon (1:06:46)
Thank you.
Thanks.
You know, you know, know.
David Howman (1:07:02)
Mm-hmm.
Tom Hardon (1:07:10)
Thank you.
David Howman (1:07:15)
Yeah, and to hammer home how good this team is, the last coach, Natasha Edir, not to like, you know, completely dump on her, ⁓ because she didn't entirely inherit like a cast when she took over the job, but her first year they won eight games, her second year they won 11 games, last year, her last year was 10 wins. They're 14 and 0. They've already won more than any of last three years combined.
Tom Hardon (1:07:18)
.
Thank
David Howman (1:07:44)
Now we've just started Big 12 play, so the Big 12 has some heavy hitters this year. They have, I think, four teams, including ASU, that are undefeated at this point, unless there's a game that has changed that while we're recording. So I'm really curious to see how the rest of the season goes now that they're in Big 12 play. ⁓ But they've come into this with a whole lot of momentum.
Tom Hardon (1:08:03)
you
Thank
David Howman (1:08:14)
really eerily feels like ASU last year in football with, you know, they had the momentum, they get to big 12 play, they could shock the world and just run to 12. You know, I can see that.
Tom Hardon (1:08:14)
Thanks.
Aya Abdeen (1:08:24)
I could see it. I could see it. I could see Thunderbolt
Shock in the world. I mean, maybe it's a bias. I'm just like keeping this right here. I mean, like back to I apologize for my confusion just a few minutes ago, but I meant to say
Tom Hardon (1:08:30)
Again, it's a very short video. Again, please.
Thank you.
Aya Abdeen (1:08:41)
What a full circle moment of getting to cover
the Arizona State women's basketball team. And I'm so excited to continue to continue the journey with all of you guys. And I mean, it's just impressive to see this turnaround from women's basketball. The last time they made it to the NCAA tournament, I was a sophomore in high school. It was it was one of the last years when Charlie Turner turned would coach before retiring in 2022.
Tom Hardon (1:08:48)
Thank
Aya Abdeen (1:09:07)
and look where what a women's basketball team is right now because of Molly Miller. It's definitely the Molly Miller effect.
Tom Hardon (1:09:08)
Thank you.
David Howman (1:09:14)
Mm-hmm.
Tom Hardon (1:09:15)
You know, I've got to say seeing this team from afar and just seeing highlights and recaps on social media, this team is night and day more exciting. It's just, you know, it's a whole brand new culture, brand new vibe, whatever you want to call it. But we set it in the segment before talking about Kenny Dillingham, but Gramersini really knocked it out with bringing in Molly Miller. She's been
and an extreme breath of fresh air to the women's basketball program.
Andrew Hayslett (1:09:50)
As Doug Tamarow put it on Twitter, or I guess X now, her name should be Moy Meyer. She doesn't know what an L is, so.
Aya Abdeen (1:09:58)
that's a great one. ⁓
David Howman (1:10:01)
Yeah, always great content from Doug Tamrrow. He never lets it down. ⁓
Aya Abdeen (1:10:09)
He's
a legend.
David Howman (1:10:11)
And we were talking before too about like Dillingham, Rossini, both like they get it because they're alums. They went to ASU, they understand it. And then you look at Molly Miller and she comes in and like, I've heard so many different people describe her as like the female Kenny Dillingham. Like there's so many similarities there. And even on an ASU level, like she gets it. She's not even an alum, but she's
Tom Hardon (1:10:35)
You
Aya Abdeen (1:10:36)
Yes.
David Howman (1:10:40)
She's already embedded herself so much within the fan base. She gets this school, she gets this program. ⁓ And I think, again, you don't have to hire an alum just in order to have a special connection to the program that they're coaching. I mean, look at Kyle Whittingham at Utah. He went to BYU, like literally their rival. And he lived and breathed Utah.
until he stepped away, you know, and has made it very clear he's not retiring. He's kind of sort of pitching himself maybe to coach somewhere else. I don't know. But ⁓ Molly Miller looks to be another one of those home run hires, even though there wasn't necessarily the personal connection to ASU. She's already she gets it ⁓ and has brought a level of excitement to women's basketball that frankly, there's not a whole lot of excitement for the men's basketball so far.
but I kind of feel like there should be, because they're doing better than I expected. ⁓ I don't know how many of us have paid attention to men's basketball so far this season, which would again, highlight my point of maybe they should be getting a little bit more attention.
Tom Hardon (1:11:57)
I made a point to watch the game against UCLA last week and I think that game was an expected loss. I wanted to do it with minimal expectations. I would have been extremely surprised had the men come away with a win. But ⁓ to see them following up with a...
with a really not great loss to Oregon State leading into conference play starting up after the new year. This team is still, I'm intrigued to see just how much is able to be retained from the same team that had only lost to Gonzaga and USC.
Until you know until last week see how much of that is able to be retained. Modem is. Is really impressed me. Night after night whenever I've been if I've been watching the game or if I'm just catching highlights on on Twitter or Instagram. He's really impressed me coming in and just taking control of his team.
David Howman (1:13:10)
Yeah, Odom has been really fun to watch. ⁓ Anthony Pig Johnson, ⁓ which like we gotta come up with a better nickname. I'm sorry. I don't like it, but he's been really great too. He's ⁓ kind of ⁓ a scouting success story coming from the ⁓ NAIA levels ⁓ and putting up legitimate numbers with a Power 4 Conference team. ⁓
You know, again, Tom, like to your point, you know, lost to UCLA. You can forgive that lost Oregon State was a rough one. ⁓ But their resume up to this point, all in all, it's been impressive. mean, they upset Texas in the Maui Invitational. Then they were able to beat Washington State, got all the way to the championship game at which point USC was able to beat them. Again, you kind of expect that, especially in that, like, I mean, they played.
three games over four days away from home in Hawaii, different, you know, pretty different time zone there. You know, they were able to beat Oklahoma who's no slouch, ⁓ beat Herb Sendak in Santa Clara ⁓ in the Jack Jones classic. Like it's not really, there's not necessarily any signs to me that they're gonna be in the tournament or they're gonna be like big 12 contenders.
But they've got enough playmakers on this team. They've got enough scores on this team that they can get rowdy. They can surprise some teams. They can make some games fun, especially in the Big 12. I mean, even last year, they got a couple of upset wins here and there. I think they can definitely do better than last year, and they can put up a really decent fight in the Big 12 this year.
Andrew Hayslett (1:15:04)
Yeah, I think that they can improve based on what I've seen in the non-conference, which like you said, David, wins over two SEC schools in Texas and Oklahoma. It's not something to forget about. Even though you just lost to Oregon State, which you were leading in that game late by like seven or eight points with like six minutes left. That's a game you should win at that point, but it's overachieving non-conference.
Which, it feels like Bobby Hurley always kinda does that. So, like, not saying, the team's gonna fall off. Which, that could happen. But we'll see in these next few games, if ASU can win a couple of these games to say, okay, this is real, or is this Puzzle to Mirage?
Tom Hardon (1:15:41)
that.
When you look at the Big 12 conference to open up coming out of the new year, three out of the first five conference games are against top 10 teams at BYU on January 7, down in Tucson on the 14th, and then at Houston on the 18th.
It's not really an easy stretch to start the conference season.
David Howman (1:16:28)
I mean, that's easy.
I'm not winning those games, but they're playing in those games.
Tom Hardon (1:16:37)
Yeah, true.
David Howman (1:16:40)
But yeah, to your point though, yeah, it is, we've seen this before with Bobby Hurley. They typically do very well in non-conference. ⁓ So I'm not getting excited until we see several weeks of Big 12 play. ⁓ And I'm not particularly getting excited for those weeks of Big 12 play that we'll have to see, but you never know. You never know what could happen. Nobody thought that.
Molly Miller was gonna be 14 and 0 at this point. Nobody thought Arizona State was gonna be a hockey school. But as Austin pointed out earlier, they indeed are. Which leads me into our next segment. Once again, another impressive segue into the next topic. ⁓ Tom, yeah, you know, when you talk for an hour about things, you gotta be good with the words.
Tom Hardon (1:17:29)
Clever with words, some might say.
David Howman (1:17:38)
⁓ So Tom, why don't you throw some words at us about the hockey team?
Tom Hardon (1:17:43)
hockey's been enjoying a nice little break hockey was off last weekend after splitting on the road at Minnesota Duluth getting the win on Saturday night after losing on the Friday night back in action this coming weekend in Hanover, New Hampshire playing the Dartmouth Big Green this is a Saturday Sunday series
As opposed to the typical Friday Saturday series that the Sun Devils will usually play. This is technically the Ledger Bank classic, but instead of being a being a four school format, this is simply a two game series between ASU and Dartmouth under the Ledger Bank classic. Name Dartmouth did in darkness, enjoying a and a. An incredible starts their season.
winning their first 11 games before going down against in-state rival University of New Hampshire before their holiday break and so they're going to be looking to get back to their winning ways against the Sun Devils. This will not be the first time that Arizona State and Dartmouth have played each other back in the 2023-24 season. Dartmouth came to Mullet Arena and both teams played to play to a couple of ties in that weekend series a 4-4 tie
in the friday night game and a 1-1 tie for the saturday night game with Arizona State winning both games in the shootout. But this is a huge series for Arizona State to start to make some moves in the NPI rankings. Dartmouth is ranked number 8 in the USCHO poll and I believe I don't have the NPI right in front of me but very similarly ranked in those NPI rankings. Arizona State is number 35 so needing
to really get a lot of wins strung together in a row against these highly ranked teams is going to be key for the Sun Devils coming out of the holiday break.
Andrew Hayslett (1:19:51)
Yeah, like you said, Tom Dartmouth really high up there. I think a split is what you need with just these road series in particular against these top teams.
Tom Hardon (1:20:05)
Yeah, you're exactly right. Splits on the road are really what you should be asking for. A sweep on the road is phenomenal, but a split on the road will help move the needle in the right direction and then got to come back home and get those sweeps.
Speaking of when Arizona when the Sun Devils do come back home, that will be for the Desert Hockey Classic coming up on January 2nd and 3rd from Mullet Arena. Arizona State will play Alaska Anchorage on Friday, January 2nd at 7 p.m. and then we'll play either Air Force or Michigan Tech on January 3rd. Hopefully that game will be the championship game as the Sun Devils go for their fourth consecutive in season tournament victory.
But regardless of whether the Sun Devils are applying for the championship or the consolation, Saturday, January 3rd will be a 7 p.m. drop. And for this weekend's series... ⁓
We'll have more information on this on Devils in detail, but both games will be able to be streamed nationally on ESPN+. So for those who are unable to watch Sun Devil Hockey with any regularity, this is a great opportunity for you to see the Sun Devils on your screen without having to go through some unorthodox methods to watch them.
David Howman (1:21:29)
I looked it up to the NPI rankings. Dartmouth is actually number two. ⁓ So pretty high up there. The only school that they're behind is Michigan, which makes it even more impressive that Kenny Dillingham didn't go there considering they're a hockey powerhouse as well. But I think Arizona State's gonna, in the long run, will be up higher in the long run. ⁓ So, but number two, that's certainly no joke.
Tom Hardon (1:21:59)
Yeah, it's going to be a huge opportunity to move up. when you're at these MPI rankings, I did a full breakdown of what the MPI is and what that means for Arizona State last week on Devils in Detail. But if Arizona State is unable to win the NCHC tournament, really to get into the tournament?
Got to finish the season at around that number 12 number 13 cut line in the NPI to be safe from any potential bid stealers.
Andrew Hayslett (1:22:33)
And that's something that they didn't do last year and the pair wise, which was last year's equivalent to the MPI. And they finished just around the 16th position, which with Michigan ahead of them, they were the first team out in South Arizona state. But you had an Atlantic hockey America. One of their teams was a bid stealer. then in Bentley, which was led by Connor Hasley and who is now at Arizona state.
and then Cornell, the big red in the ECAC conference. So it can happen at any conference right now. I believe last week's edition of the NPI, it had only one hockey East team in, which that's always, they're pretty good. They've got so many powerhouse teams.
I only had one and so there's, I think there's going to be a lot of volatility up and down the NPI over these next few weeks. Eventually when the NCAA tournament falls, you might see Arizona State in that top 13 or so to be up there. And what would happen is ASU has to win these games that they should win with the Desert Hockey Classic against
Though Alaska Anchorage is not very good, let's be real here. And Michigan Tech and Air Force who are middle of the road teams to below average, which you should win those two games. There's no reason not to. And then further down the line, your conference opponents of these powerhouse teams like Denver, North Dakota, that you have to take as many points as you can.
if you want to sizeably jump up the MPI to get into the tournament.
Tom Hardon (1:24:38)
We're looking at at least four out of six points in any given weekend for ⁓ the Sun Devils regardless of home or away. If you're on the road, taking an even three and three isn't a terrible, ⁓ isn't gonna end all hopes, but when you're playing at home, got to.
If you're not going to win both games in regulation, win one game and over time one game in regulation. Get those five out of six points. That's the best. That's really the minimum hopes you've got to be looking for.
Andrew Hayslett (1:25:21)
The Sun Devils have been really good in overtime this year. Colin Potter especially has found the back of the net a few times in overtime. that is something that the Sun Devils can do. Especially if you're down one late in the game, pulled a goalie, get that extra man goal to tie the game up late, put you into overtime where I would say the Sun Devils match up well against any given opponent in overtime for a high.
David Howman (1:25:52)
have a whole lot else to add on the matchup but I do just want to say I feel like of all the Ivy League schools out there outside of athletics Dartmouth is always the the underrated one out there that gets left out of the Ivy League conversations I don't know if that's if that's just my weird weird take on the Ivy League schools I feel like you never hear about Dartmouth that much
Tom Hardon (1:26:18)
I do want to throw it back to the last series against Minnesota Duluth and one of the points that Coach Powers has really been trying to drive home is getting more scoring ⁓ outside of the top line. ⁓ Almost all the scoring did come from the top line in the 6-3 win, but what was really standing out to me was
Five rules and five assists for 10 points and then a plus minus rating of plus 14. That's for a single game for one line to have a plus 14 rating is just incredible. You don't see that all the time from any one line. it's, these guys are producing, but that's, gotta see more consistent production from the rest of the three lower lines.
Andrew Hayslett (1:27:12)
So Tom, I kind of throw it back to you. asked the question, do you keep the three together or do you break them up to try to get more scoring throughout the lines and bring up a Jack back or a ⁓ Sean McGurn or someone else to try to get that?
Tom Hardon (1:27:29)
I think for
the time being, you need to keep them together because Friday's game at Duluth, Captain Kyle Smolin went down with a head injury and was evaluated for concussion protocol, did not play in Saturday's win. And with unknown how long he's going to be off the ice.
I think you've got to keep that core line at the top until he's ready to jump back into line up and then you can start to space these guys out.
Andrew Hayslett (1:28:03)
Yeah, and also you had Jack back, another forward who's been good so far this season. think he missed both games in the Duluth series. So I think his availability puts a lot into that as well.
Tom Hardon (1:28:20)
And plus ⁓ there was one loss from the roster. Justin Cloutier left the program to return to the Ontario Hockey League, returning back to the Sioux Greyhounds where he... ⁓
where he played before coming down to Tempe. He only appeared in the first two games of the season and was listed on the injury report with an illness for the rest of the first half. And we will no longer be seeing him listed on the lineup for the rest of the year.
David Howman (1:28:57)
I ⁓ I struck out with my Dartmouth riff So I don't I don't have anything else to add there Tom immediately immediately just side-side step past it, but ⁓ I'll save my I'll save my Ivy League Stand-up comedy routine for later ⁓ But it will be it will be a really ⁓ Really a proving ground for for the Sun Devils this week going against Dartmouth and
And like Tom said, it'll be on ESPN Plus. It's a great opportunity for those of us who may not be able to watch them all the time. ⁓ Of course, check back at devilsindetail.com so that you can find out how to watch that, where to watch it. ⁓ If you don't catch it, or if you just want to read about it after, there's another site that you may be able to go to. I bet you can guess what that site is.
course you can find coverage on all things ASU athletics over there at Devils in Detail from all of us here ⁓ and maybe not necessarily on Christmas Day maybe but ⁓ we are we're all looking forward to celebrating in the different ways that we will celebrate having some delicious Christmas food some of us also will consume egg novel although we shouldn't ⁓ but for everybody here at Echo from the Buttes
⁓ For Andrew Hayslett, Austin Bundy, Aya Addin, Tom Harden, myself David Howman, wishing a Merry Christmas, a Happy New Year, Happy Holidays to everybody. On behalf of Echo from the Buttes, ⁓ to our ASU Sun Devil family, and as always, give them Hell Devils.
Aya Abdeen (1:30:40)
Forks up, Merry Christmas.
Tom Hardon (1:30:41)
Thank you.