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The Fintech Marketing Lab is a podcast where Araminta Robertson, Managing Director at Mint Studios, explores, experiments, and breaks down how fintech marketing actually works in practice.
Intro: When I host FinTech marketing
events, one of the biggest complaints
that I hear from marketers is
leadership doesn't understand marketing.
They don't give us the budget we need.
Their expectations are similar to sales.
They just don't get it.
And I know it's a big frustration.
I see it myself in the work that
we do with marketers every day.
So.
I thought for this episode it'd be
interesting to hear the perspective
of the CEO the other side.
Now for this episode,
this is not just any CEO.
Patrick is an amazing person and
any marketer would be lucky to have
him as a CEO since he genuinely
understands marketing is patient and
just in general, an amazing person.
But I thought it'd be interesting to have
him on our podcast to go a bit deeper into
how A CEO thinks about marketing and see
what he has to say about how marketers we.
Should communicate to the
C-Suite a bit about Patrick.
He was an early employee at Novee, the
well-known Canadian payment company, and
is now CEO at his own payment company.
Fiska.
Fiska is an integrated payment
solution dedicated to helping SaaS
platforms add electronic payment
acceptance to their services.
I should also mention that.
Fiska is also one of our clients and we've
enjoyed a really fantastic collaboration
over the past, past few years, so it was
really great to go a little bit deeper
into, their view on marketing in general.
In this interview with Patrick,
we cover how does he as a
CEO think about marketing?
What are the metrics
he really cares about?
How he evaluates a channel when he
knows it's hard to calculate the ROI.
And what does he wish more marketers
understood about how CEOs make decisions?
Enjoy the interview.
Generic intro: You are listening to
the FinTech Marketing Lab podcast.
I'm Arminta from Mint Studios, a
content marketing agency specialized
in the FinTech space, and this
podcast is where we experiment,
explore, and break down how FinTech
marketing actually works in practice.
Each episode I talk with top FinTech
marketers about what they're testing,
what they're learning, and how
they're pushing the boundaries of
brand strategy and team building.
With that, let's get into today's episode.
Araminta Robertson: amazing.
So one of the first questions I wanted
to ask you is I know that you were an
early employee at Nove and now many years
later you run your own payment company.
I'd be so curious to hear like what
would you say has changed about the
payments industry, since you work for
Nove and now as a CEO, and how, also,
how has that perspective changed from
working at a payment company versus
running your own payment company?
Patrick Huynh: I have to say.
Industry-wise, everything's changed since
I started in the early two thousands.
So I've been in the
industry for 25 or so years.
Before two thousands or eight, late
nineties, I would say there was a period
of about 23rd years of really stagnation
and everything's really evolved.
No innovation in payments.
Everyone was doing the same old.
Everyone was using the same
way of processing payments.
And no one really thought about the.
Payments is something that needs to
be improved or enhanced or optimized.
And then I think innovation
came along with the first.com
boom.
Or some people may call it bubble because
it resulted in a market crash, but there
was the emergence of new technologies
companies like eBay, for example, which.
change consumer habits.
And the emergence of e-commerce really
forced payment companies to think about
payments and how that is embedded within
their customers or their users ecosystem.
So you no longer have a
retail brick and mortar.
store where old, good old brick of
a terminal could sit on a counter,
and every single customer had their
own credit card, physical card.
There were now different
ways of making a purchase.
And so when you look at that dot
com boom we saw the emergence of
companies like eBay, which led to.
PayPal, which then eventually
got bought by eBay.
And I would say PayPal was one
of the first disruptors in the
payments industry, followed by
square in the, 2009, 2010 years.
That really changed the
way how a payment is made.
And we're starting to see a trend towards.
Integrated payments within a software
platform rather than a standalone
solution like the good old, brick.
And if you do a quick search online
for the zone payment terminal, that's
been the same terminal that has
existed for 20, 30 years, it's been
sitting on the same business counter
or store counter for the 20, 30 years.
And so what integrated
payments has done is.
Change the way people think about
payments and how that's processed.
So the traditional concept of having
a physical card and swiping that
through a terminal is no longer viable.
And people were thinking
about frictionless payments in
different types of environments.
A great example of that is Uber.
In the past when you take a cab.
Number one I'll just remove the
cab hailing experience for now and
focus on the payment experience.
With Uber, you hail a cab
or your ride share car.
You get to destination and
you literally just walk out.
But before that, you hail a cab, you
get to destination, and then there was
this whole process of payments, right?
If you pay by cash, the driver had to.
Calculate The fair and then, pull out
cash, calculate the change exchange
of like physical funds and so on.
That could take, multiple minutes.
And it doesn't sound like a whole lot,
but it's sometimes even worse if you
pay by credit card because they would
have to pull out their old payment
terminal and then boot that thing up.
That could take another couple
minutes to process a payment.
While everyone, while blocking, traffic
and everyone behind you is honking
because you're blocking traffic and
trying to make a payment or you're running
late you're just fumbling with cash or
credit card to make a payment, right?
And so that's the idea
of frictionless payment.
Uber's done that really well and made
payments a behind the scenes event
rather than a, front of a house event.
And so I'd say.
To answer your question, everything's
changed in the last 25 years, and
there's such a quick pace of innovation
within the payments industry, especially
compared to the previous 25 years.
it's sometimes hard to keep up with.
Araminta Robertson: Nice.
Oh my God.
And also, like, working for a
payment company is different to
being the CEO of a payment company.
what have you noticed, or
what did you maybe not expect
would it be like to be CEO?
Like, how are you feeling about it in that
position?
Patrick Huynh: I see myself more as an
entrepreneur than a traditional CEO.
I'm not a CEO of a Fortune 500 company,
and I'm sure that the role of the CEO of
a Fortune 500 company is very different.
So I'll just speak from my
perspective and from my experience.
Being an entrepreneur means that
you have to wear multiple hats.
That's number one.
You have responsibility over,
all aspects of the business.
and you go from being the vision
behind the business to the person that.
Ultimately has to take care of sales,
marketing, product and so on, right?
Even though you have leads in every one of
those areas, or you're, or some companies
have leads in each one of those areas
at the end of the day when you're an
entrepreneur and it all stops with you.
So, you have the.
The opportunity and also the
responsibility or the, some people may
see it as a burden to have to look at the
business in a very holistic way, right?
Not just one aspect of your business.
I think that's a big change.
Although with Neve, I've had the
opportunity to work in a very
entrepreneurial environment even though
it got very big I was able to exercise
a lot of creativity and so on and so on.
But the role there towards the end
became a lot more of a more traditional
executive role or administrator.
Than someone who's building.
And so the biggest change for
me now is, going back and really
building the every single stone in
that foundation around the company.
Araminta Robertson: Nice.
Yeah, no, it's very different.
So, the reason I asked you to join
me on this podcast episode, and what
I think is really exciting for our
listeners is the perspective of the
leader when it comes to marketing.
'cause I think as marketers
we're often very entrenched in
our own KPIs and our own goals.
And I think a big.
Kind of, whenever we do our
FinTech marketing events, one of
the big topics is always, talking
about marketing to leadership.
How do we do that?
How do we do that in the best way?
So I think this episode is kind of
an opportunity to hear the other
side, to hear, yourself as a leader.
How do you think about it?
What is it you want to
hear from marketers?
What do you wish marketers
understood about your perspective?
So let's just Starting with
Fiska a little bit, how do you
think about marketing at Fiska?
And then we can talk a little bit about
like, how would you like marketers to
communicate or all that kind of stuff.
So how do you think About marketing at fi?
Patrick Huynh: I think generally I'm very
much of a meat and potatoes kind of guy.
Um.
Not in the sense of my diet but
really just in terms of my overall
approach towards business, right?
So I look at things in
a very pragmatic way.
So if we talk about marketing I
don't romanticize marketing like,
an episode of Mad Men even though
you probably didn't know this about
me, but I'm a marketing major.
Um,
Araminta Robertson: No way.
I did not know that.
That is crazy.
Patrick Huynh: so, so for me marketing
is part of a sales process, right?
It goes hand in hand with sales and
you've probably noticed that I'm
using the term sales rather than
the more current term of growth.
And that's more favored
by the tech industry.
So it just shows you what kind of a
person I am, but I think CRI marketing
is a critical part of a sales cycle.
I think it falls within a sales
function, which ultimately leads to
customer or, user acquisition depending
on, how you view the industry.
So customer acquisition
and revenue growth, right?
But marketing as itself
is also a very broad term.
And so if I had to define marketing
in my own words or in my, own view it
would include essentially three things.
You have branding, you have product
positioning, which is product marketing.
Then communication.
So what that means if you combine those
three elements, marketing should help
create awareness for your company.
So that's part of the branding piece.
For your products, which is product
marketing and product marketing
is also product positioning.
You have to be able to create awareness
for your brand, but also be able to
clearly communicate the value of your
product or services, which is part of
product marketing to your customers.
And the last part is communication.
So communication could
include several channels.
How do you talk to your customers?
How do you reach them?
In which way you reach
them, what do you say?
And so on and so on.
So that's, part of the
communication piece.
And then obviously you there, have other
factors in there and marketing is identify
your customer or your target audience
and customer persona and, and so on.
So that's how I see marketing at
Fiska or , in my own Real World.
Araminta Robertson: And, I know that
obviously like, marketing is still a small
part of what you do at Fiska and like
you're more focused on the sales aspect.
What would you say at the stage that
you're at Fiska, what are the metrics
that you're looking at when you're
evaluating marketing performance?
And I think for the listeners, just
so that they're aware a little bit.
And you tell me if I'm right, but
Fiska the main way that you are doing
your marketing is through LinkedIn,
through website content, through
LLM kind of optimization, but it's
mainly website kind of content.
That's how you're really mostly
doing marketing and obviously
we're helping with that.
But you're not doing like, I don't know,
out of home ads and stuff like that.
It's mainly website and digital marketing,
Patrick Huynh: That's correct.
and by way you're doing more than help.
I think you're doing an amazing
job with our marketing strategy.
And you've been a great partner.
Araminta Robertson: Appreciate it.
Patrick Huynh: To answer your question
I come back to what I had said.
Really, I'm a meat and
potatoes can guy, so.
The metrics that most important
to me is conversion and revenue.
So it ties down to customer
acquisition and then revenue metrics.
I think other very important
metrics that are leading indicators.
And I think they're equally
important to know and understand.
I think at the end of the day it
comes down to the fact that, I have
so much information, so many decisions
to make and marketing is a piece.
I'm not gonna rank it in terms of
importance or how much time I spent on it
versus other tasks, but it's just one of
the many areas that I have to oversee.
And so For me, marketing, if I
have to boil it down is all about
customer acquisition and revenue.
Metrics or
customer conversion.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah,
no, and I think this is where
like sometimes there's a bit of a
disconnect between leadership and
marketers, where often they may be are
tracking metrics that aren't really
connected, not directly to revenue.
And so sometimes it's this.
That's why often,
marketing is seen as the.
I don't know, what do they call it?
Finger painting in this
department because a lot of
people don't see the value.
And this is, you know what frustrates
me sometimes 'cause it's like,
especially nowadays in 2026, you need
marketing, especially if you're a tech
company, to raise awareness and to
be, to appear in the right places.
But the problem is that if you're not
connecting it to the right metrics.
People just don't understand
that people don't see the value.
What are some examples of metrics that you
feel maybe marketers obsess over that you
just feel, as you said, it's just too much
and you don't think it's that relevant?
Patrick Huynh: It's the first time I hear
that expression, that uh, finger painting.
But completely actually see the
value of, marketing as a function.
Marketing is a science
Or business science.
And some people might debate the
term science or the choice of word.
Maybe it's not the best one, but
it's definitely a business function.
I'll say is that are a lot of metrics
out there in marketing, right?
So, in fact I think they're all important.
It's just a question
of time and priorities.
So if I have five hours a week
to dedicate on X, Y, and z.
What's important for me, what's important
for me is your conversion metrics, your
revenue metrics, your ROI metrics, right?
But you have other metrics
like awareness and reach.
For example, it's impressions, website
traffic, keyword rankings or engagement
metrics, click to likes, blah, blah, blah.
Or bounce rates and, and others.
Are important, they're leading indicators.
Without those and if you don't track
those, then you are not able to optimize
your customer acquisition or conversion.
And eventually your revenue or
your return investment, right?
So I think it's important for marketers
to keep track of all those metrics.
It may not be.
Super useful to present all of them to
your client, So for me what's important
is really conversion and revenue or
customer acquisition and revenue.
And the rest is one of those things where
I will look at them if I have the time.
But I would rather take a look
first or hear first about your.
Conversion and how, the campaign is doing,
Araminta Robertson: Yeah,
that makes total sense.
And I think this is maybe what's
missing is that sometimes marketers
only report on the leading indicators
when really what you really want
is the conversion, the revenue.
And it's not to say that you shouldn't
report on the leading indicators, it's
just that don't just report on that.
Like let's do both and if
there's no time, do the revenue.
But that, I think what's sometimes
missing is the revenue aspect.
Like how does this help with acquisition?
Right.
Patrick Huynh: Correct.
And I would even say that even
if you report on that first,
Araminta Robertson: Yeah,
start with the revenue
Patrick Huynh: yeah, exactly.
again, if you had an hour
a week with your client,
How do you spend that hour?
What do you talk about?
Well, I think that's.
What you need to talk about first, and
then go back on how you got to that point
and maybe challenges that you may have
but don't spend, the first 30 minutes
talking about, website traffic and,
you know, click through rates,
bounce rates, and so on.
And then only use the last 10 minutes to
go over your conversion and your revenue.
Araminta Robertson: That makes sense.
So now say, imagine you had like the
dream CMO you had on your team, like a top
level, really one of the best in FinTech.
this ideal scenario, what do
you wish this person, how would
they explain marketing to you?
How would they report marketing to you?
What is the dream scenario and how
is that kind of relationship, like,
what are they talking to you about?
What do they keep you in the know for?
Patrick Huynh: that's a great question.
So I think the CMO should be part of
all business functions, Because the
CMO, if we look at that person's role
marketing could go very, very broad.
And I think the CMOs role is probably
slightly different from the one of.
An agency that is not part
of a, inside of an an entity.
So the CMO has to understand,
number one, your product and
services, who your customers are,
and actually touch all of them.
That means they have to be able to talk
to the customers, they have to be able
to understand the customer's pain points.
And how we are able to provide
value or address those pain points.
So that, to me, a good CMO is one
that is going to be able to talk to
customers, talk to the competition,
understand the market, understand the
products, understand as much about the
business as I do then their role is in a.
Practical way on in a day-to-day
way is to be able to take all that
information and synthesize that in
a way that is easier for someone who
may not have as much involvement,
whether that's a customer an employee
or an investor to convey the value
that we provide as a company.
Has a product, has a solution.
And it's important to also keep in
mind that there is a company in the
culture, not in esoteric, kind of
kumbaya way, but customers not only buy
a product of service, especially in our
industry where trust is so important
'cause you're handling people's money.
That people make a purchasing
decision on the company as well
as the people that they work with.
And so the CMOs role should be
able to synthesize all that to
the outside, to the inside and
investors, lenders, and so and so on.
And to go back to your question
what would I like to see reported
back to me is the same thing that
I would say to an external agency.
Show me the end result first,
And then we can talk about
how we got to that point.
And that's how generally, I like to.
View data and metrics,
Araminta Robertson: End
result being revenue.
Patrick Huynh: yeah.
Customer conversion,
revenue and so on, so on.
Right?
So it could be on the upside is
customer acquisition revenue on the
downside, the customer attrition and,
And so on.
So on.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah,
Yeah, that makes sense.
And how would you for example, there
are certain channels that are hard
to attribute to new customers, and
one example of this is LinkedIn
which, we've worked on together and
We're all on the same page here.
LinkedIn, it's incredibly hard
to tribute to new customers.
Even the date, like even a single LinkedIn
post, it's not always gonna perform well.
And yet, this is a channel that
you have decided to continue to
invest in and clearly adds value.
my first question would be, how
do you understand LinkedIn and
why do you believe it adds value?
And then also, say the CMO has to report
on channels like LinkedIn, how do you
believe they should report on that?
Patrick Huynh: So I think if we go
back to the concept attribution first
I believe that attribution is the
biggest challenge for any marketer.
Whether that you're an external agency
or internal And I remember having a
conversation a few years ago, and this
is probably going back 10 years, 15 years
ago, with a friend of mine who owns an
out of home marketing agency that's doing
super well and has massive customers.
They're running super creative campaigns.
And so, so, but what he said to me
is his single biggest pain point is
to be able to show or demonstrate
attribution to his clients.
And so.
message I have to all my peers,
entrepreneurs, CEOs, leaders,
whatever you want to call them,
is not to necessarily obsess over
attribution to any single channel.
So to look at marketing as a mix, and
it's a mix of different channels and
that you need a mix to be successful.
Now, in our case.
LinkedIn is just one channel, right?
We have I think that we are able
to communicate to our clients
through different channels and
LinkedIn is just one off those.
And I don't necessarily try to put a
quantifiable attribution to LinkedIn.
I don't think that.
Everything can be quantified
Or everything can be boiled
down to, a scientific unit of
measurements that can be reliable.
And so to make a long story short
I look at LinkedIn as something as
part of a channel that we use to
communicate the value to our customers.
Now, why do I think LinkedIn
is important in our.
Case is that, as I alluded
before, we have to build trust.
How do you build trust with a potential
customer who doesn't know who you are
and that's looking for a solution, Or
a financial service to be more precise.
And so we use LinkedIn as a way
to communicate my own views.
So I post.
Under my own accounts.
And so it's my own views of
the industry, the products.
And sometimes I'll even go
into the, personal life.
not that also keep that at a
very high level, but the point
is, people, customers, potential
customers want to know not just
about the product, but also about.
Views your vision, who you are.
And LinkedIn is a great way to do that.
And I have often heard from our own
customers and prospects that I talk to,
comment on topics that I put on LinkedIn.
they, I would say generally agree.
That's what led them to
the conversations we have.
I'm also guessing if they disagree,
they wouldn't be talking to
me.
So it tends to be more
biased towards the positive.
But customers do comment, so shows
that, number one, they research
What you have to say beyond what comes up
on chat, GPT and Google and peer reviews.
So they'll look up on
LinkedIn, and see what you say.
And then they form an
opinion based on that, right?
So again, it's not a, quantifiable
or scientific measure.
But I think that's, that LinkedIn is
extremely useful for us in that way.
It may not pull customers
indirect directly.
We don't really often see customers
coming in straight from LinkedIn.
But it's definitely part of the journey.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah, no, I think,
and I think a big reason potentially
that you continue to invest in it
and see the values because you have
heard, you're the one who has heard
customers say on a call, oh, I saw your
LinkedIn post, and I think this is.
Often, maybe what's missing or
what's, when you are the person
who actually hears someone say, oh,
I really like that LinkedIn post.
You start to be like, okay,
this is clearly worth it.
And I completely agree with you, and
this is why I continue to publish on
LinkedIn, is I, multiple people have
mentioned that they appreciate the
posts and often it's someone that I
met a year ago or two years ago, right?
And I just understand that
these things take time.
And I I think this is why
marketers who are trying to
maybe justify LinkedIn, it's.
Maybe asking salespeople on the call
to say, do you follow us on LinkedIn?
Or How did you hear about us?
I love the, how did you hear about us?
Because then that's when you actually
hear the prospect saying, oh, LinkedIn.
And that's what will I think, get
leadership's attention is when
an actual prospect or customer
says, I loved your LinkedIn post.
I loved your reports.
I love that event.
That is like the biggest,
and it's qualitative, right?
As you said, there's
no unit of measurement.
It's kind of hard to track.
But it's storytelling and it's kind
of, as a marketer, I think it's our
job to kind of explain a little bit
the journey that people go through
and the role of each touch point.
Because ultimately, that prospect
probably read a LinkedIn post, read
a blog post, did some research on
Chacha PT, met you at an event.
Ultimately, it's all these
little bits, and I think if
you're able to showcase that.
That's when leadership understands,
okay, this is how it's working.
And this is why, attribution is such a
controversial topic because yes, it's
very hard to track, but the way I think
about it is, even if it's very hard,
doesn't mean we shouldn't try, right?
We should still try as much as we can
to understand our customer because,
and what they're doing, because that's
how you know what topics to cover
and also what channels to invest in.
But yeah,
basically
Patrick Huynh: completely.
Yeah, I, and I completely agree with
you, and if we go back to the question of
like what metrics attract and attribution
and so on and so on, I used to obsess
over, a number of response or likes
on LinkedIn and impressions and so on.
And I think the more I obsess over
that, those metrics the worse it got.
then there was a question of
how do I break or how do I.
Adhere to the LinkedIn algorithm so
that I get more views and yes, it's
important to have a lot, more views.
That means that you're reaching more
potential customers or, a broader
audience and your message can be
heard and so on and so on, right?
But it's also important to be.
Authentic and true to your values.
Because that's really ultimately for
the people that are reading your posts.
That's what they want to see.
They don't want to see like a sales pitch
Every post.
They don't want to see you provide,
Or sway in,
in the way of the wind blows.
So LinkedIn is a tricky one.
But it seemed to be working for us.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah,
no, it's really exciting.
The other thing I wanna talk
about is like, just communication
in general with marketers.
Like you're a fantastic
person to work with.
You are very respectful of
people and a very great listener.
But I know that a lot of marketers,
they often struggle when communicating
with leadership and they feel like
maybe they're not being heard.
And so, I know this would never
happen with you, but I think
it's an important topic for.
People working with other leaders
that may not understand marketing as
well as you do and who may still feel
like it needs to be justified a bit.
So I guess my first question
would be what do you feel?
What makes you immediately like, lean
in and get really interested when a
marketer starts explaining an idea?
What makes really get fascinated
by what a marketer is saying?
What do you think is important
when they're talking to you?
Patrick Huynh: I go back
to trust and how trust is.
Built, sometimes takes time
and trust is built two ways, right?
I can't tell you how to do things and
you can't tell me how to do things.
It's about listening
to each other as well.
But I'll, I'll take a step back and maybe
I can share with you my process there.
So.
As I said it, it starts with
a relationship of trust.
First thing here is I will vet if we
share a common value, and if our vision
in general aligns, it's a lot easier
for me to trust someone who share.
Same value as I do, and then general
vision, it doesn't mean that we have to
agree on everything and that we have to
be just a copy or a mirror of each other.
In fact it's good that we have,
different views and opinions.
But the core values have to be aligned.
Secondly domain expertise.
So if you have domain expertise,
that goes a very long way with me.
marketing is such a broad
sector and business sector
and if you're able to build.
Expertise in my industry right
away, I would say that's 50%
of the work that I have to do
that's stuck, in payments.
But if we just talk about
marketing in general whether
you're in SaaS or even more narrow.
Yeah.
You could be a specialist in
a certain SaaS segment When we
first met very clearly, you have
developed a niche or an expertise
or focus on the payments in FinTech.
And for me that's uber important.
I didn't need to teach you what the
basic of payments are or interchange
or who Visa and MasterCard is.
So, those are some of the factors that
really make me lean in and listen.
And then also it takes time,
And so demonstrated results
trust.
and I always say and results take time.
So, again, maybe a word of advice to any
of my peers that are listening is that
you can't expect results immediately.
You go to a
doctor,
you have to trust
what your doctor advises you.
Otherwise what's the point, right?
And so you have to provide some
level of trust from the get go.
But there's nothing
like demonstrate value.
So a lot of the questions you've asked
was around metrics and what should
be communicated, so on and so on.
Show results first,
as soon as you can, and focus
on that because ultimately.
That's what your
customers are looking for.
They're looking for results
and hopefully positive results.
And even if it's not positive,
talk about it right away.
this
didn't work.
We tried this, it did not work.
So here are the metrics and
here's how we're gonna fix it.
Versus going through the whole hoopla
and skirt around the issues, right?
So positive, negative focus on results.
And even if it's negative
or if it's not what
we wanted
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Patrick Huynh: on it, that builds trust.
I know that you are a
responsible partner and
that good or bad, you will tell me.
So I trust you and whatever you say
carries a lot more weight versus someone
who's just skirting around the ocean.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah,
no, I couldn't agree more.
And I think you've nailed kind of
what is the key part of communication
with a marketer, between a
marketer and a leader is trust.
And I think it's this balance because.
We organize our FinTech marketing
events and we always hear the same
kind of complaints, which is like,
leadership doesn't understand,
leadership doesn't want to, is impatient.
Leadership doesn't give us the
resources, and it's this balance.
And I think it's also tricky because
certain leaders maybe still think
of marketing of how it was in the
seventies, which was mainly ads or how
it was before, but it's evolved so much.
And in 2026, marketing
looks so different, right?
It's mostly not most, I mean,
it depends on your industry,
but obviously for FinTech.
It's mostly digital and it's also taking
up a bigger and bigger part of the funnel.
So whereas sales used to
do a lot more reaching out,
finding the leads, all of that.
Now marketing does a lot more because
people want to do their own research.
They're not wanting to get out bounded.
So I think there's been this
change in marketing and maybe some
leaders have not realized that.
And so that's why there's often this
tension between leaders and marketing and.
I think just to go back to that,
like you've already given some really
good advice on how to build trust,
which is alignment and also values.
And also demonstrating results.
But in those first, like six, six months,
you've hired a new CMO six months.
Obviously, as you said, you can I don't
think it's realistic to expect results.
Super quickly, what advice would you
give to a marketer that's has six
months to like build trust basically?
Patrick Huynh: The first thing
I would have to say is like a
message to my peers that six months
is a very short period of time.
You can expect results
in six months, right?
So no matter how, unless it's
miracles you're not gonna
build a whole marketing mix.
In six months and expect positive results.
And think we're probably talking
about positive results more than
just general results, right?
So marketing takes time.
Marketing takes patience.
And I think it's, again, I go back to the
what I had said before, focus on results.
Even if it's just you're making.
Incremental progress.
It may not get you may not have
reached the point that your customer
or your leader is expecting.
Show Progress, show results so that they
can have a little bit of something to chew
on versus just keeping them in the dark.
And again, the metrics may
not mean a whole lot to them.
Like the, all the leading, what I
call the leading indicator metrics
may not mean a whole lot to them like.
The, Number of website visitors, at the
end of the day, what does that mean in
terms of revenue or customer acquisition?
Not a whole lot, especially for
someone who's not in it day to day.
So, show results, then you can.
Backtrack into, other metrics.
And I think that's important to
just provide constant communication
and feedback loop to the
leadership or to your client.
Araminta Robertson: No, I agree.
And also, if they're not where
they're supposed to be, explain
what you're doing to improve that.
I guess.
Like, what is the plan?
And I think one very good question,
if there's a leader or CEO listening
one very good question that we've
been asked often as an agency is like.
Our opinion, which is like considering
at what month we're at, is this normal?
Are we above average?
Are we below average?
Are we on track?
Like in your opinion, based on
how many months we've been doing
this, what is this good or bad?
And I think that's a really good
question to ask because then.
It's on the marketer to basically explain
whether things are going well or not.
If they're not, that's okay as well,
but you know what's happening there.
And if they are going well above the
trend, the average, and, but the CEO
thinks they're low, that's also important.
So the marketer can communicate
and say, look, it's only been three
months, but this is really good.
So we're on track.
So I think as you say, over communicate,
I think, and being honest and explaining.
This is my opinion.
This is what I've seen is like
ultimately what really builds trust.
'cause the CEO needs to lean on
the marketer's expertise really to
know if things are working or not.
Patrick Huynh: And you've just hit
another very important point there.
the measure of success, whether
it's in terms of time or whatever
the results may be, whatever metric
you're using is a measure of success.
Really varies from company to
company and also based on the life
cycle of a company like a startup.
It's not the same as a scale
up or a more mature business.
So a lot of times and this is where
building expertise or vertical expertise
or industry expertise is, becomes
really helpful, is that you're as a
marketer the leaders always want to
compare themselves to their peers, to
the competition, in other words, right?
It's kind of like, grade school report
card, you've got 90% in math, but
are you doing that well or you not,
not doing that well If the rest of
class, the average is 95% and you
get 90%, yeah, 90% in isolation may
seem like a great number or great A
grade, but 5% below your peers, right?
And so as a marketer, it's always nice
for your clients, or I'll speak for myself
to hear how we're doing, even though
we may not have reached that goal yet.
Are we progressing in a way that is kind
of like in on trend with the industry?
Are we or, and competitors,
are we doing better or not?
And even if we haven't hit our
goals, I can tell you right away.
If you tell me that we're doing better
than our peers, like, to me, that's
like a cost for celebration, right?
So, and back to your point, I
think communicate frequently and
especially in the early days, maybe
over communicate, and that's gonna
help you build that level of trust.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
this is great.
So I'd like to finish off with one last
question because I think this is also
great for our listeners to hear your
perspective on this, which is, what
do you wish that marketers understood
better of How CEOs make decisions?
Patrick Huynh: So that one I
can answer very succinctly.
Marketing is important
and it may be your life.
But it may not even be
in the top five or top 10
of
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Patrick Huynh: to do, or priorities
for a CEO or any, an entrepreneur.
So just keep that in mind.
what's really important to you may not
be the most pressing thing for them.
So keep things simple, short, concise.
We said before, communicate
often and early doesn't not
necessarily mean you just ramble on,
Araminta Robertson: Yeah, totally.
Patrick Huynh: Focus on the key
data or information that's important
to them keep things simple.
They are not marketers.
they, They are essentially entrepreneurs.
Or leaders and that, that
have to lead many teams.
So keep that in mind.
Araminta Robertson: No, I think that's
really, I totally, yeah, that's completely
been our experience as well as an agency
and we always keep it in mind as well.
And I think a few tricks that I've heard
from other people that have worked is.
Having a dashboard that the
CEO leader can always click on
and see the immediate results.
So you don't have that, like they
have to message the marketer every
single time they have a question.
I think just having something that has
always the high level, the most important
key metrics there, that's super helpful.
And also it could be a one way
communication channel in the sense that.
Maybe every few days you send an
update or every week or whatever it is.
And the CEO leader doesn't
even have to respond.
It's just a Okay, cool.
Good to know.
And I think there's a few different
ways that you can communicate all the
important stuff without taking up time.
'cause exactly as you said, the
CEO's job is literally running the
company and there's many other things
that often have to take priority.
So,
Patrick Huynh: By the way,
sometimes you don't even realize it.
Maybe you're on phone or in
person meeting with the CEO.
But there's time and there's
also mental bandwidth, right?
So sometimes you say things, it goes
in one ear, it goes out the other.
They're still listening to you,
they're nodding, there's smiling.
But it might not register.
So, make sure that you understand
the priorities in their lives.
And, formulate your com
communication to them, at the
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
I.
Patrick Huynh: customers.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
No, this is great.
Amazing.
Well, thanks so much,
Patrick, for your time.
I think this was really helpful.
I hope that marketers listening
understand a bit better the perspective
of the CEO and really appreciate
your time and hopefully we can also
implement some of those as well, more
Patrick Huynh: Well, thank you for
allowing me to share my thoughts and.
Opinion on this.
Araminta Robertson: Oh, my pleasure.
Amazing.
Speak soon.
Patrick Huynh: Thank you.
Bye.
Speaker 10: Thanks for listening.
You can find show notes and
information about guests@www.mint
copywriting studios.com/podcast.
And finally, huge thanks to orama
TV for producing this podcast.
Thanks for listening, and
see you at the next episode.