Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
We take a bite out of local politics with Oprah Jrenal and Azrin Awal, who both ran for city council positions in their respective municipalities in fall 2021. We chat about their motivations to run, how community played a huge role in their campaigns, and how the complexity of local politics plays into creating lasting change.
Show Notes
We take a bite out of local politics with Oprah Jrenal and Azrin Awal, who both ran for city council positions in their respective municipalities in Fall 2021. We chat about their motivations to run, how community played a huge role in their campaigns, and how the complexity of local politics plays into creating lasting change.
★ Support this podcast ★
Creators & Guests
What is Take the Last Bite?
Take the Last Bite is a direct counter to the Midwest Nice mentality— highlighting advocacy & activism by queer/trans communities in the Midwest region. Each episode unearths the often disregarded and unacknowledged contributions of queer & trans folks to social change through interviews, casual conversations and reflections on Midwest queer time, space, and place.
For questions, comments and feedback: lastbite@sgdinstitute.org
To support this podcast and the Institute, please visit sgdinstitute.org/giving
Host: R.B. Brooks, they/them, director of programs for the Midwest Institute for Sexuality & Gender Diversity
Cover Art: Adrienne McCormick
RB
Hey. Hi. Hello, y'all. This is RB, and welcome back for season two, episode five of Take the Last Bite, a show where we place Midwest nice under a microscope and zoom in on the abnormal curvatures and complexities of the ways queer and trans people coexist in the Midwest.
I'm going to keep today's intro pretty swift and sweet because I'm currently recovering from a back injury because gravity and Minnesota snowy ground conspired against me and I'm trying to listen to my body. But I want to lay some context for the conversation you're about to hear today between myself, kind of, and two of my cherished friends in the work. Before this recorded conversation, Azrin and Oprah had never met each other. We had all chatted a bit via Facebook Messenger to talk about the logistics of the recording, but otherwise these two had never been in long form conversation together. But I had a hunch that knowing them as I do separately, bringing them together was going to garner a really nourishing and rewarding conversation. And oh my goodness, was I correct?
There's a ton of really incredible takeaways from this conversation. We dig into imposter syndrome and the feeling of, well, who am I to think I can run for political office or be someone that folks can rally around? We talk about a lot of the limitations and restrictions of marginalized folks, especially queer and trans folks of color, to even run for office because of a lot of lesser known associated costs for running. And we talk about some of the stickiness when it comes to electoral politics, and how the pace of change in politics versus organizing and direct action work sometimes clashes, but that there's still a lot of value in utilizing this existing structure and system to enact sustainable change.
But what's still really resonating for me, and something that I think speaks really broadly to one of our underlying motivations behind this podcast is how the conversation started, and I opened this up asking both Ashley and Oprah what their relationship is with the Midwest. And from there, our conversation really kind of lays out what does it mean when you establish an affinity for your physical geographical location. It's more than just dirt and earth, it's about the people, it's about the community, it's about resources. And in many ways it seems for these two, it's about identifying gaps in the existing spaces they're in that need addressed, and feeling called and motivated to address the restrictions and limitations in those spaces.
In conceptualizing our show Take the Last Bite we very much wanted, and continue to want, to highlight and talk about what does it mean to exist in a Midwest queer space, place, and time. And it was very enlightening and humbling to hear from these two folks who endured quite a lot of lessons and obstacles and endured so much personally and politically, because those are intricately intertwined, how their affinity for where they live, in two completely different municipalities, in two completely different states. Neither of them from the locations in which they ran their campaigns originally. Kind of speaking to what does it mean to have a connection? What does it mean to come from different places and compare and contrast what's going on at home versus what you now call home? What does it mean to be kind of a transplant into spaces and want to be part of the conversation and want to be part of making change in this place that's newer to you? What does it mean to integrate into these spaces that aren't necessarily affirming for the identities that you hold and how that becomes this kind of beacon, this kind of motivator for saying, I'm here and I plan to be here and I want other people who are like me and who think like me to feel like they can be here as well and disrupting some of the status quo and normalcy that exists in these predominantly white, cis-normative spaces.
This is not a conversation promoting or favoring or grandstanding to say that every queer and trans person, every marginalized person, needs to run for political office. That's not what we're talking about today. This is a conversation about how we can utilize and leverage different tools, some of which currently exist and some of which we're looking to create, to dig as deep as we possibly can and yank at the roots of all of these systemic and structural realities that inhibit our lived experiences. This is a conversation with two folks who are not traditional cookie cutter career politicians, but who understand that by placing themselves in spaces, where those career politicians exist, they are usurping and interrupting the status quo and business as usual.
You can learn more about Azrin and Oprah's backgrounds as educators, students, colleagues, community members, friends, in the show notes. I'm incredibly grateful to both of them for finding time to share space with me and to be in conversation with each other. It's really interesting to get a handful of facilitators together to have just kind of a casual conversation for a podcast because it just seems like everyone's really fluidly Passing the baton and moving the conversation forward. So this just felt so seamless and easy, and I really enjoyed every moment I was able to have with these two post campaign, so I hope that you're just as nourished and encouraged by all of the wisdom and vulnerability and honesty that these two had to share about all of their experiences and insight and wisdom.
So with that, I ask you to sit back, relax, and take in all the goodness of this episode of Take the Last Bite.
[INTRO MUSIC PLAYING]
Y'all we cannot do this. We cannot be these stereotypical Midwesterners. Please eat the rest of this food.
We just have these conversations every day with people like this is exhausting. I don't want to do this anymore.
Why can't we be in space with hundreds of other queer and trans folks and having these necessary conversations?
I don't know who you are, but we're going to talk by the potatoes for five minutes
Because aesthetic is the only thing keeping my dysphoria at bay. I'm broke all the time, but I look amazing.
Definitely going to talk about Midwest Nice and if that's as real as it wants to think it is.
Midwest nice is white aggression. That's what it is.
[END MUSIC]
RB
Alright, fam, I'm Super excited about this conversation. I feel like this is two of my separate worlds coming into conversation together. I'm really excited to be with both of you. So let's just start off with both of you, like sharing who you are and then including in that intro, what is your relationship to the Midwest?
Azrin
Who am I? So I just got asked to send in this bio earlier today. I was like grooming myself as humans do in the bathroom and I'm like typing this little bio up. So this is perfect. So I'm just going to read the bio that I came a little prepared and it's only because this other person has been trying to get in contact with me about sending in this bio. So my name is Azrin Awal. I use she/they pronouns. I am a first generation Muslim immigrant, Bengali Asian American queer woman of color dedicated to social justice, community, health and healing. I am an advocate, an activist, an artist, and an adventurer. I am determined to heal the generational trauma, the systematic trauma and the interpersonal trauma that I carry, while also empowering the intersection of my identity. I love challenging myself and connecting with the people in the environment around me. Wherever I go, I will bring my authentic self, my heart and my community with me. I don't know. I don't know if that does a good job.
Oprah
Yes, I love that. I too have a bio. No, I'm kidding. I don't know. I'm happy to be in your presence. I'm Oprah Jrenal. I use she/her/hers pronouns. I currently live in Michigan. I serve LGBTQIA2S+ students at Michigan State. I live in Lansing, Michigan, and I am black. I am fat, I am queer, I am goofy. Yeah, I love people. I love talking to people and trying to figure out how we can make the world better. I love talking about it and doing about it as well and happy to be here. One thing that you didn't say was your relationship to the Midwest. So you like love it out here. Been here for 50 years, like what's going on? And then I'll say my thing for the Midwest.
Azrin
As I said, the bio, I don't think this covers anything. I don't know why I said it then. So my family, I can't tell if it's first Gen because sometimes I consider myself first Gen, but I'm also that Gen that immigrated. So I am an immigrant, right? I have my green card. I had my first passport. We went through. I was naturalized through my father when he got his citizenship. So my story to the Midwest is essentially 1990, my father won the DV2 lottery. So very like a rare chance. He came over to New York very specifically, got into found community there, got into the Indian restaurant business there, went back, married my mom. I was born and then my mom and I later joined my father in around 1999. And by that time, my father had moved from New York to Minneapolis, Minnesota. So when we came, my mom and I joined my father here. It was directly Minnesota was the first place, essentially in the US that I lived in. And I sometimes don't ask my dad. It's like, why not New York? Why Minnesota? And I think the job opportunity that he had had brought him to Minnesota and then because there wasn't as big of a diverse community here, the people that were here, he made really strong connections with because there's a limited amount, so you got to build coalition where you find it, right? Right. So surprisingly, he thought of going back to New York where there's a bigger Bengali community, but he ended up staying here because of those more intimate connections. Like, there's only a few of them at that time. Now there's like, many of us walking around. So through that process, like that immigration and that movement and that journey, I've always been in Minnesota and in the Midwest. And frankly, as much grief as I give my father for moving from New York, I think I've built roots here. And the relationships are a lot stronger here. And I struggled a lot here, too, struggled with my identity and how I'm a global south body, living in the global north, very much so in the Midwest where there isn't that many individuals around me that look like me. So I guess through that, I grew up in the Midwest. I struggled in the Midwest, and I found myself in the Midwest. Like, found my voice and how to activate that voice. I guess that's my relationship with the Midwest. I'm very much so attached. Even though I have dreams of, like, moving to one of the coasts and living by the ocean. I found the biggest body of water in the Midwest and decided to move there and probably will be here for a long time. So that's my connection to the Midwest.
Oprah
I love that. And that's also interesting that you're like, sometimes you dream about going and living on the coast. I'm from the coast, so I grew up in Los Angeles, California, all over Southern California. And I could go to the beach when I felt like it, but we didn't go often because we lived there. So I was like, what's the point of driving, like 45 minutes to go to the beach or however, it's always there. So that's really interesting. And then I moved away have no intention of going back because I went to school in Arizona. I did my grad school work at the University of Kansas. So that was my first little Midwest moment. And before that, I worked at the University of California, Los Angeles. So I was working, doing diversity equity stuff, working with transfer students, specifically in the residence halls, having these big conversations about justice and equity and liberation, like what are we doing? And one of my supervisor at the time was like, you need to go. And I was like, what are you talking about? We're doing great work here. I got to stay here. And she was like, no, you got to go and see how other people are talking about this. They have the same positions as you, or they're also working in housing or they're also working in diversity, equity, inclusion, whatever. You need to go and just learn what's happening out there. Because I was very sheltered and protected by folks who thought like me, who I could have tough conversations with, and they wouldn't cry. I went to the University of Kansas and I had an education. Like folks who say they love the inclusion, they love diversity, they're all about it. And then once they get done checking that box like that, they have the training or that they watch the video or whatever, they're right back to racism, right back to transphobia, right back to all the things. And because it's like breathing. It's like if you're not actively fighting against it, then it's just going to happen. And so I learned. I was like, oh, so saying it doesn't mean that you're doing it. And I was raised up in the work. If I'm talking about it, I'm actually doing it, too. I was doing it before I knew how to talk about it. I had to find the words like, oh, this is intersectionality. But it's like I was just doing it. The Midwest was where I really got that, “Like, oh, okay. So if I don't say the thing in the meeting, then nobody's going to say the thing in the meeting because there's no one out here who is really thinking the way I'm thinking.” And then I kind of found my people. I was in the grad school program, so I found folks who were going through the same stuff, thinking the same thing came from other places. And so those are folks that I still talk to today, but I know if I call, they'll answer that kind of thing because we supported each other through that. Left the Midwest for a minute, went to Massachusetts, worked out there in housing, and then came on back. And this is the first position I've had at a University where I didn't live on campus. So I'm actually rooted in the community. And so that feels completely different than other places I've been, because it was just you get stuck on the campus because that's where you live and work. But I really love that and come to love Michigan and love Lansing and the people who have the thoughts and the dreams, and they're actually working towards those thoughts and dreams in the community.
Azrin
It's a lot harder. I feel like it's a lot harder in the Midwest for Black Indigenous folks of color to navigate the realm because of Minnesota nice or the passive aggressiveness, but then also a lot of the times allies or people who are like, we're with you, like you say, they say the words, but there's no follow up action. Right. Because they don't do that internalized work of, “okay, you're outwardly explicitly saying this, but have you evaluated the internal self? Have you evaluated your internal biases? Have you checked your privileges?” And when that doesn't happen, I think it's a lot harder. The environment becomes a lot harder. Absolutely. But I think that's actually one of the reasons why I ended up staying in Duluth. My first week in Duluth is waiting for a bus and I got called a terrorist. Right. I had my hijab on, and in that moment, I had a friend, too, who also was a hijabi and was with me. And she's Black and I'm Brown, and we're just waiting. And these people go by and say like we're going to hell and things like that. But in that moment, some of the folks, the POC in our group, some of them were like, “we got to go back to Minneapolis. We have to go back to Minneapolis where there's more diversity, more folks of color, more of that safeguard.” Right. Where you have that support system. But that got me thinking, I guess if I leave who's here for the generations to come, right. We're not taking our presence in this space, then we're not putting our presence in the space for folks who will come who look like me or who are queer or who are POC immigrants. So I guess that was one of the reasons where I found a place in the Midwest, in Duluth, particularly where I felt connected to the nature and the environment. And I very intentionally wanted to create community, too, even knowing that this community might push back on ideas of my identities or the intersections of my identity. But I oftentimes think, right, because in that framework, it's like we will gravitate where there is more diversity, there is more in those like usually the bigger cities. But then I think of those rural areas in the Midwest where there isn't and thinking about how when I went through the campaign and there were a lot of ugly comments that came my way, recognizing it's probably coming from a place where they have never met someone that's Muslim or Brown or an immigrant. So how do I carry myself forward through that experience?
RB
So I think it's a good place to maybe dial back just a little bit to make sure that we're clarifying early what campaign you're talking about. Because that is why you're both and I start with the question about your relationship to the region, because I feel like that relationship and that backstory is so relevant to your affinity for where you're currently situated and ultimately the decision that you both made last year to run for political office in your respective municipalities. And as a conversation that I felt really motivated to have, especially as someone personally who really doesn't have a lot of faith in electoral politics. But in our current climate and current context, there's a lot of power and there's a lot of investment in electoral politics. So it's pretty impossible to ignore. So I definitely want to hear from both of you about the good, the bad, and the ugly. Right. What was your campaign? First of all, what was the role that you were running for and what were some of the experiences that you had running for local office?
Oprah
Yeah. In Lansing, Michigan, the city is broken up into wards. There are four wards. I live in the largest ward, which is Ward Two. And I was motivated by - I've never thought that we have a scarcity of resources. I've never thought, like, there just isn't enough to go around. There's more than enough to go around to serve people. Our priorities are out of whack. And that's what I ran on, you all, as in voters, general folks who are dialed in medium length, like all the way versus not at all, and all that are being lied to and you're being told that there's just not enough. So when you say, hey, our streets aren't getting fixed or these lights have been out, or look at all these abandoned buildings, why do we keep having abandoned buildings? And the city doesn't do something, put something in and make it really cheap so that a new business can get in there, why is this happening? And then they say, oh, well, do you want that? Or do you want to be safe at night? And it's like, wait, what? So now you're making me choose, like, safety, which if we put safety here and then put an asterisk on it, they really just mean police, which I was very open about my desire to get rid of the police in my campaign - brought me a lot of ire. Like, folks are super angry. And the folks who were open to a conversation, I was able to pull them along because it's easy to create a monster, especially out of a black woman. It's easy to say, “She wants you to be unsafe and wants the criminals. She's trying to help the criminals.” But when I talk to individual, older white folks who started with this, “I love the police. And I can't believe you would say such a thing,” when I started talking to them about where crime actually comes from and how police don't actually prevent the crime from happening. So, yes, I hear you telling me that your house was broken into multiple times and how that was devastating to you and made you feel really insecure about your home and your safety. I hear you and the police came, they wrote up a report. You didn't get any of your stuff back. And it happened again, is what I also heard in that. So what if our city refocused, got those people what they need, because that person broke into your house to steal stuff so they could sell it because they wanted it, because whatever. But what if everybody has what they need to be successful from right where they are so that they don't do those things? Like, we get into our schools early and we promote mental health and just personal growth. Like all the things. If you want to be a scientist, if you want to be a singer, if you want to be whatever, we give you the tools to do that. I wanted students. I talked about getting in our schools and making sure that kids can dream, but then they also can have the tools to get to those dreams. And we can do that if we take money from this thing that we know - the institution of policing - that we know, that we're just waiting for them to mess up. We're like, we're going to take resources from the community. We're going to make it hard for you to get your education. We're going to drive around your neighborhood little Black and Brown children, and we're going to show you that we're watching you. And then in your schools, we're going to have paid police officers walk around and watch you as well. So now you're used to being surveilled. So the piece of your brain that you get to develop that says, “Maybe I don't want to push this trash can over, or maybe I don't want to whatever.” You don't have to flex that piece of your brain because someone is always in the shadows watching you and saying, “Get off that.” And you don't get to do that in community. We're not talking about accountability and bystander stuff so that your friends can say, “You don't want to do that. Come on, let's go over here and hang out like, whatever, so that we can start taking care of each other.” And those are the things I talked about on the campaign trail, as they say. I, too, was a person who was like, not really interested in politics. I paid attention loosely, and I had friends who would talk about different things happening, and I would be like, oh, yeah, that's cool. I'll read an article or two, but when people are like, “oh, I don't do politics.” Politics does you. Like, politics is dictating your life for sure. No matter how much I wanted to not pay attention to it, it was impacting the streets I drive on. It was impacting the taxes I paid, impacting my neighbors and friends. And so it was really important for me to be like, okay, I have this job at Michigan State that has given me a sense of security financially that I've never had in my life. I'm in the community. I can do something. Like, I can try, and if not me, then who. So I might as well just put myself out there and do it. And so that's kind of what pushed me was like, I can keep talking about it, or I can try to be about it, too. And I can try this one Avenue.
Azrin
Yeah, that's a powerful statement of, “if not me, then who” like taking that personal accountability and putting yourself out there, knowing that it's going to be hard. And it sucks that the systems that we're actively fighting against, those aren't systems that we created. Those are systems that folks with wealth, privilege, and power created and now maintain. But those are the systems we're actively fighting against, knowing that the responsibility that we're taking on. So no, I feel that, I feel that statement like, it's not me. Then who?
Oprah
What about you?
Azrin
I was having a really hard time finding my voice and figuring out who I am. Growing up in a very suburban white community down in the cities, in the suburbs. There was a lot of privilege that wasn't talked about. And as one of the only during my time, at least one of the only Global South bodies in that school, it was hard to find my identity and who I was and the intersection of those identities. I remember in that school district, there was someone who was saying highly problematic things, and it was in a classroom. And I called that student out. I was like, “hey, that's racist.” And the teacher immediately turned around, and this was like when I was in 6th grade and was like, “you can't say that to anyone. You can't call anyone racist. We don't use that language here.” So where was the centering, the trauma and the centering, the margins in that. So going from that kind of environment where that was in 6th grade and in third grade, I remember in that same school district, I remember they were showing 9/11 videos and I saw those side eyes and those glances and the teacher saying attributing religion and identity and an entire culture of individuals to like, “oh, they're violent, right?” And just like, not seeing the full nuance and what goes into it. Right. How Christianity has its own set of extremists and like, not talking about the power and privilege that came into play here and not talking about historical context, not talking about generations and generations of knowledge that was created from these cultures and these Global South bodies. But very so focusing on political motivations and trauma, essentially, that propelled actions of violence. Right. That was condoned by all Muslims around the world. So it was interesting to be in that environment and hearing my classmates be like, oh, we should just bomb the whole goddamn - third graders probably saying things that they've heard in their families and things like that. I can't remember if it was second grade or third grade. I remember the teacher, there was a worksheet of like, what do you want to be when you're older? I had wrote down, “I want to be white.” So at a young age, I had so much internalized oppression and bias that I started to hate myself. And it took years of self love and still to come to a place where I love who I am and my identities and the intersection of all that. Right. Even as that 2nd, 3rd grader, I knew who had the power and the autonomy. I might not have had the words to say, but I knew it. So what I started recognizing, even though I don't like politics, I don't like how our system is run. I felt that I was constantly - politics has been constantly pushed into my face because of the rhetoric, the propaganda, and how it's played out in the active lives of folks living in the community. So with that and struggling to find my voice, I came to Duluth. And then in Duluth, as I got more involved with discovering myself and discovering a lot of my traumas and my PTSD and really diving into it, that's when I started speaking up and finding my voice on campus. And then the thought of, “if not me, then who right?” This burden and responsibility to actively push back against the system is not a wish that I would want for any of my children, any of my peers, to recognize the level of trauma that even comes from being out there and actively pushing against the system that is constantly trying to push you down and stomp on your light and your brilliance. And I think that kind of relates back to the migration and the movement that my ancestors went through, like through Asia, Northern Africa. And I think the leadership that my ancestors had taken up, and I guess I felt that sense of responsibility of like, “I'm here to serve my people. I'm here to uplift and serve my people.” And I was doing that through, like, nonprofit work, activism, work, my art. But through that journey, I never envisioned myself getting involved in politics. I was involved in politics in the sense that politics affects my life every single day. I follow global news pretty often, like, looking at but in those moments, last year mentors of mine that I looked up to that have helped me through this entire journey had approached me and was like, “you should run for this seat.” And all of a sudden those imposter syndromes and the internalized bias came up. Like, “I don't think I'm qualified. I don't know if I have the qualifications. I don't know if I would get the votes. I don't know if I can do this.” But then once people started challenging me in a sense where think about what you have done already and what you can continue to achieve with the seat, with your voice in the seat, and then think about the individuals who currently hold the seat and if your life experiences that you've gone through is something that they can bring to the table. And I was like, no. My life experiences as an immigrant, as a Muslim, a queer Brown person, navigating this journey in this life. I don't know if I can see my voice or any sort of representation in local politics for me. Right.
Oprah
So it already doesn't exist, like, on a large scale. So it's like, how do you see yourself in something where you don't see yourself.
Azrin
Exactly right. So when I was like, okay, well, let me actively think, is this something I can do? Is this something that I can serve folks through the seat? Can I serve my community? And then when my initial answer of no slowly turned into a maybe and then slowly turned to a yes, and the moment I was leaning towards yes, I got in contact with city Council members, current and past and allies essentially had that discussion. It's like, “what do you do? What is your impact? What can I do?” And through those conversations, I got really excited for the position and the challenge that it might propose. Through that journey, I ended up becoming a candidate, which was its own whirlwind and monster. Being a candidate in a campaign is something that, I think it's like indescribable. I don't think if you haven't been a candidate, it's so difficult to explain what it is because all of a sudden you're this public person and you're putting your entire authentic self, if done authentically yourself out there for criticism and critique, which every elected official should have to do. And at such a personal level, too. Yeah. So essentially that was my journey and why I ended up then saying yes and then running a campaign and really trying to build coalition with my community and the different spheres of community that I was involved in.
Oprah
Yeah, I don't think we blatantly said it, but did you win your election?
Azrin
I did win. It was close, but I did win my election. Yes.
Oprah
I did not win my election. So we have, like, we can talk about that. But I will say I gave the incumbent a run for his money because I was like, I'm not playing around. And I think he played around up until the last minute because that's how I see this. When I think back on it is like, he really thought he just had it in the bag and then started hitting doors and realizing that people were talking about me and not interested in him because we were hitting doors for months. And he only really started hitting closer to election time. So at the end of the day, he got like 2,300 or something. Also, my Ward was like, the lowest. Like, we don't vote in my Ward - lowest turnout. And I got like 1,300, something like that. So for a newcomer that's coming out of nowhere, the folks on my team who are deep, deep in politics, who pay attention to everything, they were like, “this was great. You didn't win, but you won. A newcomer coming out of nowhere. This doesn't even make any sense.” And it was because we wanted it so bad. So Congratulations to you.
Azrin
Thanks. I want to acknowledge my privilege here, though. So there was two seats up for city Council, for the At Large position, and because there were two seats up, one was an open seat and the other seat was - the individual to say, folks call her the incumbent, but technically she was appointed. She was never elected in until she went through the most recent election. But she was seen as the incumbent. So for one seat, she had a very strong hold. And essentially it was me and this other individual who was more right leaning. And of course, I'm more left leaning, going really neck to neck for the second seat. So I want to recognize that privilege where there were two seats and I wasn't directly running against an incumbent for one of the seats because thinking about it, sometimes I wonder if there were two incumbents in that seat. I don't know. I don't know what the results would have been, but because one individual who was previously in the seat decided not to run again.
Oprah
I love to hold multiple truths. So sure, you maybe have some like the door wasn't always shut, maybe it was cracked and you just kicked it open. And also, I'm sure you worked your butt off and deserved it and are doing a great job. So you hold multiple truths, you can have a little help and also work really hard and do great things. That's awesome.
RB
Even feeling like you have to disclaim some of that makes me think about something. We talked a little bit before I hit the record button because I was like, wait, we got to talk about this because it's so good, so good, and also so shitty. Is that, like all of these experiences that you both named about even considering running, who was in your ecosystem to kind of push you, convince you, voluntell to run? Who is participating with you, right? Seemingly folks who are already really invested in the game of electoral politics, folks who maybe have experience with campaigning or who've been part of local politics previously inviting you in, encouraging you and guiding you along. All of that to say, the insurmountable barriers or brick walls to bump up against through the entire process, win or lose, right? Like whatever we're naming as a win in this situation. And we were talking about just like all of the deterrents that marginalized folks have in participating in electoral politics. And from what you all have already shared, right? A lot of it is just who the hell am I to do this? Especially with another barrier being these are predominantly white municipalities. The voter turnout across the nation is always going to be older white folks. We're definitely seeing young folks and marginalized folks participate more actively. But we're also more inclined to look for alternatives like mutual aid projects, other types of systems that are just beyond electoral politics. So you really got to push and push against all of these things. So what we also talked about was just there's not a lot of incentive besides wanting to do good work, because the pay, right, like the compensation for folks who are doing local politics is really like disproportionate even comparing y’all’s municipalities. It's not sustainable for folks who maybe are already experiencing generational wealth gaps or poverty. Right. Like, it's just not feasible. I was telling you all before we hit record, too, that here in Duluth, we had someone who's a small business owner that wanted to participate and run for - be appointed in an open seat. But once they found out what the meeting schedule was, they're like, that doesn't work with my own schedule to run my business. So how am I supposed to participate in electoral politics and be a representative, even be considered? Right. So there's all of these layers and layers and layers of who can even participate. Right. Oprah, you even said you're in a position right now where monetarily you could sustain yourself to be able to even consider running for a position that's paid for a paltry amount, right? Yes. Can we tuck into that a little bit of just like all of these layers and layers of reasons why it's really hard for folks to even consider running through these positions, especially the two of you who are like, this wasn't a dream situation? Right. There's plenty of white boys who go into student Senate in their colleges and they're like, I'm going to be President. And they probably are because they have the chance to think about it that early. I know so many. Right. But you all are not those people, which I really appreciate, by the way.
Oprah
Yeah, there's a lot of barriers. One of the things out here that struck me right away was when you go in and you say I'm running and you fill out the paperwork, you can either go and get like 250 signatures from your neighbors and community in the Ward, or you can pay $100 and that gets your name on the ballot. And it is COVID was COVID at the time. And that was before vaccines were everywhere and before we understood you're more likely to get it if someone talks right directly in your face than if you touch a doorknob or a doorbell and that kind of thing. So I didn't feel comfortable going up to people's homes. We were quarantining, asking for signatures when we don't know what. At the time, we didn't know much about the virus. I opted to pay for the $100 because I could. But there are people who could not like that would be an instant barrier. The second thing was when you go and apply - not apply, but you go and sign up and everything - on the website, on the city's website is your name, your full address, because you have to put down address, and you can put a phone number down in an email address. So I created my political email address. And before I filled out the paperwork, when I realized that's what that was going to be, there was only one other candidate who had a PO box on the Open to the World website. And everyone else just had their home addresses. But they also were cisgender, straight white folks. They had no - conservative folks - like the incumbent family man. I got these kids, and I got my wife, and I work with my hands kind of dude. So he has no reason to be afraid. He's not saying anything controversial. He's not pushing for change. He's not trying to uplift marginalized communities who have been just shat on by the system that he benefits from. And so I went out and got a PO box. So I had to pay for that because it was like, I'm not comfortable being in my home talking about how we need to take money from police, get rid of them, and actually focus on the community. So I had to go get a PO box. So that was another barrier where I'm like, oh, this has to be a holdover from everybody just being white, cisgender, straight, Christian, conservative, whatever. It doesn't matter if your address is out there. Nobody's coming to your house to burn it down while you sleep. But those are things that I thought about and also with how people, white people, are finally talking about the police in some areas where they weren't before, they weren't considering, they weren't listening to Black and Brown communities. When we were saying “we're not safe, they're killing us.” Until last summer, I think I was also concerned about speaking my truth around police because I'm like, “bad things do happen, and you all have created a system where we are reliant on you. And if something bad does happen to me or is happening in my community and I want help, there's no other people to call.” So why aren't we talking about how to call, like, creating systems where we can call folks who don't have to show up with a gun to your community but can still come and help you if you need something that is out there. And so that was another piece of my campaign trying to really talk to folks about, like, “we can change the way we live. We don't have to be relying on these folks.” And then meeting with the interim police chief and him saying, “well, yeah, we don't have all of the positions filled. And people don't want to be police right now because of the way police are talked about in the media.” And I'm like, “no, it's because police kill people, and then they don't go to jail or get any repercussions for it. That's why people don't want to be police. Boil it down because you can't blame Black and Brown people and Indigenous folks for everything.” And then his push was, “well, we need more money because more money will make people want to be police. More money will keep us safe and all that.” And that was just the lies that were being bred at that time last year. And so lots of barriers. And I also struggle with the imposter syndrome, thinking like, “who the hell do I think I am doing this? This is not for me.” I had other black folks tell me things like, “you need to stop talking about getting rid of the police. You are not going to win if you talk about this” and me pushing back, saying, “I have to sleep with myself at night, I have to look at myself in the mirror. I like to be able to meet my gaze when I look in the mirror. And I won't be able to do that if I start conceding things now. So I'm not going to do that,” and then have those folks not want to be a part of my campaigning. And that's okay because we all get to make choices. Just a lot of barriers around safety and feeling like, what am I doing? What is happening here? And I am a very private person. So it also felt weird to have people look at me in the grocery store because I sent 3,000 mailers out the week before. So then I'm in the grocery store and I'm like, “why are you standing at me? Pick up your broccoli and leave,” you know, that's all.
Azrin
I think it was something that I noticed from the campaign right off the bat, you know, prior to this year non profit work, 30K a year, the city Council bumps me up to like, what, 42? but 30K a year for my tuition, my rent, groceries, carpet, everything, right? And when you look at the standard of living, I'm privileged to make that amount. I'm privileged to have this roof over my head. I recognize that. But at the same time, I'm struggling too. I was struggling a lot with my health and medical bill and debt and all of this. Like I said right before I decided to run, there was an incident that triggered my PTSD and it was really traumatic. I was getting flashbacks and it was very traumatizing. But I didn't have adequate health care at the moment that, anything I seek I would have had to pay out of pocket. At the same time, I was having a lot of physical health difficulties that I couldn't pay for either. So combining all of that, when I was going to run for election, I communicated with my campaign team. It's like I don't know if I can put any money of my own personal wealth and money into this campaign, which you see a lot of the other candidates doing, where they give a loan out to their campaign, which I can't do that. So I knew that I am going to have to fundraise. I'm going to have to fundraise a lot. Really much so lean on my community. And that's going to be challenging because asking individuals who I know that every single freaking dollar matters, because I'm in that position. My family's been in that position where every single dollar matters in how it's impacting your life. So there's this immense amount of conflict intention as I was asking my community, please support me through this, also recognizing that I need your support so I can amplify your voice on the city Council, too. So there was this balance that I was trying to work around. But through that, money is what I was recognizing is what gets you in front of people. Like fundraising to get yard signs, fundraising to get radio ads to get billboards to get mailers. All of that is so directly related on money and personal contributions from your community members. So I have my own concerns and issues about that to even begin with right off the bat and how different money and funding comes into a campaign and what that looks for that individual as an elected official and things like that. But one thing that made me realize at that moment is I had to go through a job transition where my job that I had at the time as a youth advocate, it was shift based work, right? So I was working from 2:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. every single day, except for whenever I get those, my two days off, like that weekend off. And that makes it really challenging, right? Because when you're a candidate and you need to be knocking doors, you need to make calls. You need that afternoon time. So I had to shift my entire career or my work that I was doing my job in order to make sure that I can sustain my campaign. So when I made that shift to more of a flexible position, still doing similar community work, youth based work, and like program advocacy work, I was still putting in, like, say, after work, I was putting in 2 to 4 hours door knocking every single day or making calls or something. And that time that I spent in there, that's not time that I'm being compensated for at all. Right. And then realizing even as an elected official, I'm still going to have to work my full time job, two part-time emergency jobs to sustain myself. And yes, the stipend helps. It helps significantly. Right. But it's not something that I can let go of my three other positions to just do holistically. And I feel that right. I think about that often. It's like I wish I could put everything into the elected seat and position that I see. Like individuals who are retired, who are doing or have that wealth and privilege or that power backing, who are doing part time jobs or have that generational wealth that they can bring in where they're not. The individuals who are also working full time jobs alongside City Council. Right. And that makes me realize the barriers that exist for the working class, the individuals at the margins, Black, Indigenous folks of color, queer folks from running in politics. Right. There's all these financial barriers, emotional barriers, systematic oppression and barriers that exist with that as well.
RB
It seems like some of the big points here then is the time consumption. How much of your time is dedicated and who has to spend one amount of time? Are you able to just pay the $100 or do you have to go knock on a bunch of doors and canvas for days, weeks, months, whatever to get your signatures?
Oprah
Do you have a family, right? No, I was able to be like, let me go out here and do stuff. But I couldn't imagine doing this and raising children, a child, taking care of a partner and being there for them during that time. It was terrible. There was nothing. There was no extra minutes.
Azrin
The entirety of last year, 2 to 4 hours, sometimes 6 to 8 hours every single day. When I feel I mean-
RB
The system definitely not seems like with certainty. Right. Like it's based off of a model that serves career politicians. Right. Like folks who want to start in politics early at a local level and work their way up to some kind of large scale, broad based political career, which is not going to serve marginalized people in any type of way, either as constituents or as folks who are interested in running. And so what I'm also wondering, out of this. Right? Time consumption, money consumption, disparity in resources, who has access to doing these things? Who has the time and space and resources to do this? Who has the connections, right. Who has the wherewithal all of these things, all these barriers you listed off. Right. What does it feel like to think about either as folks who've done the campaigning or as folks who may be eventually guiding or supporting other folks who do campaigning to do all of this labor, right, all of this work to enter into a structure or a system that is historically, traditionally, and just blatantly slow in terms of making and contributing to change? What does that feel like?
Azrin
Maybe a way to break it down? Oprah, I'm interested. How did you navigate endorsements? Because that sometimes determined what kind of support you were getting, who were giving you your support, and what kind of funding was coming into your campaign. So how did you navigate those endorsements?
Oprah
So on one hand, they were navigated for me because there were places that would email certain candidates and not others because they already knew that the values weren’t aligned. I had my talking points on my website, so they did a good job of being like, we're only going to email the other person. And then so I didn't have to even deal with that. For the folks offering endorsements that were just emailing everyone, I got to decide on if values aligned, I would look at their past endorsements and see, like, who do you care about? And what were they saying at that time and that sort of thing. But I filled out things. I went to everything that I was invited to. I honestly don't think that there was one that I just didn't go to. But the Black Lives Matter Lansing had a handful of talking engagements, and I went to all of those. I was endorsed by the Democratic Socialists of America chapter in Lansing, and they were incredibly supportive and so helpful with the campaign - would not have gotten as far as I did without the support of that team. And so I would say I took my time and I would read about what they were into because I, at the end of the day, didn't want to be endorsed by someone or a group that was terrible because that's not what I was doing. And with the money stuff, I also got all of my money from individual donors. I didn't get any money from - even the endorsements I did get from Black Lives Matter Lansing - all that did not come with money. So every dollar I got a little I think I got a little over $8,000 for my whole campaign. Yeah. Came from individual people who were like, “You. I like what you're saying. Here's some money.” Also, those are Black and Brown folks, and those are low income folks, like the people who really care and love my message. And so I was straddling a line of feeling like, “give me more money. And also, I'm sorry that you're giving me money. I'm glad you believe in me. But also, I know that come on, this sucks.”
Azrin
I think every time when your community donates and gives money, there's that extra responsibility, recognizing that dollar matters, that dollar matters to them. And now that dollar is so valuable in the campaign, how do I show up as my authentic self and continue to elevate that voice? Absolutely. No. I did very similar things. My campaign team really looked at what kind of endorsements we were seeking and the vision and the mission of the group and how that aligned with who I am and my experiences and what my platform was based on those experiences.
Oprah
Yes. So, RB, can you say your question again?
Azrin
Yes.
RB
You're definitely hitting on it. And I appreciate trying to take my big picture. Right. But it was kind of talking about how especially for the two of you all, you all are not career politicians. Right. You all are doing nonprofit work. You're doing education work, you're doing community work. All of these myriad things that are very parallel. And aside from electoral politics and also the power and the investment in electoral politics is hard to ignore. Like you said earlier, Oprah, you can ignore politics, but politics are doing you. So either engage or don't. So I guess my question in a couple of ways is how would you stay motivated around continuing to engage with local or municipal politics? How do you stay motivated when we know that this is a system and a structure specifically that works so slowly in many ways at making change, that there's a lot of bureaucracy, that there's a lot of politics within the politics like we talked about. Right. It's not a fast moving change machine. So how do you balance the desire to be a part of a structure that has so much power to try to steer it towards making meaningful change and also the exasperation with how slowly it often creates that change, if it could create it at all.
Oprah
Yeah, that's a meaty question.
RB
You're welcome.
Oprah
Being the kind of person I am, I was really like, I look like I'm one person, but I am multitudes. I am millions and billions of people. I'm not alone. And if I learned anything from the election time, was like, I'm not the only one that is thinking the way I'm thinking. I'm not the only one who wants the things I want. We just need to find each other. And one of the tricks of, like, white supremacy, patriarchy, sexism - blah blah blah enter the -ism - one of the tricks is that it makes you think it gaslights you. “I'm the only one who cares about this, look at me alone.” And it's like, wait, what? Like, no, people came out of nowhere, and we're like, “oh, I love what you're saying. How can I support you? I make cakes. Can I do a fundraiser, like, a raffle of cake for you?” One of my close friends now, @sarahjeansews on Instagram - always be plugging. She sews and does, like, stitching and stuff. And she was like, “I will stitch something and raffle it off. And the money can go directly to your campaign.” She came out of nowhere because she saw what I was talking about and believed it. And that's the kind of stuff that kept me motivated and keeps me motivated because we're here. We're in a system that doesn't want us to be here. So we have to find each other and be intentional and strategic, but we can make space for each other and we can support each other. We can do that from right where we are. I think with a slow moving system of oppression, like city politics and all the things I just think about how I function, and I'm good with the interim measure as we're on our way to the long term measure. And so even before the voting and all the things I had a Google Doc going of like, this would be my strategic plan for my position and all-
RB
How higher ed of you.
Oprah
I know. But the cute thing that I was doing was setting it up, like phases like Marvel Cinematic Universe.
RB
Look at you.
Oprah
Thank you. That was my little amazing thing. So I had it set up as phases. Like, we go in there, we humanize folks. I get to know where you're at on City Council. What are you thinking about? What are your motivations? And then I can learn your language. So it would just be learning, and then it would move into, like, doing. I called it “know better, do better,” - Maya Angelou woo woo - because once we know stuff, you can't unknow it. Yeah. And so let's go. Let's do something with our new knowledge. And so it would have been slow moving. And I also was prepared to stay in community with my constituents. So regular meetings and with just regular folks. And I think, I didn't know who my representative was until I ran against him. So it's like, how does that work? Like, you're supposed to speak my interest in city Council. I don't know who you are. And so because you have determined who your people are, who will vote for you, and you don't care about the rest of us. I was motivated that there were enough of the rest of us, enough of the others to really push and to do good work in a system that doesn't want us to be there. But I like to think that I can humanize folks. I'll buy you a muffin, I'll buy you a coffee, and we can talk about how we can change things together.
Azrin
For a lot of folks in my campaign team, this is probably one of the first time supporting and being on the campaign team of a person of color who holds so many different identities and intersections. And alongside those identities, those -isms that come along with. Right? So right off the bat, when I was establishing my campaign team, I let them know. It's like, we're going to be facing a lot of Islamophobia, racism, xenophobia, sexism, ageism, and it's going to take you by surprise. I was just really transparent, but this is my daily. This is like a daily occurrence. These microgressions are a daily occurrence in my life, and it's now going to be more public. And with that public sphere, there's going to be a lot more of that. And I told them, it's like, I don't want you to hold things in. When you get shocked, you communicate. We all are going to communicate. We're going to be vulnerable. And there were so many times where in those campaign meetings, I broke down crying because of the horrible, horrible things people were saying, not to me, but about my community. And that's what was breaking me apart. And what was also breaking me was the fact that there were individuals in my community with that internalized bias who were like, “this is the game. This is what we just have to deal with. This is what freedom in America means.” And it's like, no, no it's not. These are all tactics of white supremacy that we're actively pushing against. So how I lasted the campaign was really, like being authentic and vulnerable with my campaign team, but then also with my community and the folks and staying in community still. One thing that was really challenging is because I was putting in so much time and effort into the campaign emotional labor, physical labor, financial. I had lost connection with some community. Right. Because the focus, the priority was that campaign. So after the campaign, I'm going back now and reestablishing those connections. And now I'm realizing that if there was that balance, I think I would have been emotionally a lot more like, I would have felt a lot more supportive if I had those community folks going through me with me in that campaign. But that campaign was so isolating.
Oprah
It does feel isolating on that for sure, because I think there were some nights where I had done everything I was supposed to do. I returned all the emails, I filled out all the questionnaires. And then I just was in my house by myself. And if I was messaging friends or something, it got to the point where friends started saying stuff like, “oh, I thought you were going to ask me to do something for your campaign. So I didn't respond quickly because I didn't know what you were going to ask me for or whatever.” And I was like, “I understand” because there was a point where I was like, “you want to come door knock with me? You want to come and fold this stuff with me? You want to come in? Like, whatever. Have you donated yet? Because if you haven't donated, oh, are you registered or do you know someone in my Ward? Will you make some vote for me?” And trying to build on the relational organizing of like,” hey, do you know someone who has a restaurant in my Ward who I can set up shop and get people to vote for me there.” So I understood where they were coming from. It also hurt my feelings. And so I had to hold that as well. But it's really isolating. Like, it's like you're just kind of doing this stuff and people distance themselves from you. Also with like, I had people tell me, well, “I didn't invite you because I thought you were busy.” Yeah, you didn't even, like text and just see, I wasn't busy that night, but it was nice to see your Instagram photos with me not in them.
Azrin
No. I'm getting a lot of what you talked about that now where people are like, “oh, I thought you're busy because you're this or that. You hold these positions” so people aren't reaching out and are expecting me to reach out, but I can't reach out to I'm slowly going to reach out to folks, but people are viewing, like I'm now removed from their community. Right. I'm still part of them. But I'm not in the community, which is really even more isolating. Right. Because now I need you even more. I need to be in your presence and your thoughts and your dialogue, because that's what energizes me, is my community. That's what propels me forward. I will always prioritize you because you is what sustains me in this position. You are the life that I'm living for. So that was really hard.
Oprah
I think it's a holdover from how we view politicians, that they are these over there people, like superhuman. They got it all together. They're over there, and they're not just regular people that go to Aldi. That's why. And I think that's what our community did. They were like, oh, now you're over there, you're different. And it's like, oh, no, I'm still regular. I just got to sign some paperwork. That's all I do.
Azrin
I got to attend some meetings a month. No?
Oprah
Right. What did you learn through this process about yourself or something like that?
Azrin
You really have to stay grounded. Otherwise you're going to lose yourself. You really have to find your people and stay grounded and be authentic as much as you can to yourself, even if that means being vulnerable, breaking down because you are only human. And with that vulnerability, I think, comes strength and comes power.
Oprah
Yeah. I learned something very similar as far as stuff about myself. I'm going to be me, whether I'm on city Council, whether I am working at MSU, whether I'm in the grocery store. The context can change, but I'm not changing. And so that was my biggest takeaway. And I was just like, well, what's my next thing? And folks started asking, “well, I'll support you, whatever your next thing is.” And I'm like, oh, no, my next thing is I know I'm going to be me whenever I get there.
RB
You all are absolute gems. I'm really glad I was able to put, you know, invite you into conversation together to talk about all the nonsense, but also the rewarding experience of participating in your campaigns, what you learned. I don't think that queer and trans folks especially, but marginalized communities in general, really, like you talked about, see ourselves in how we can leverage and push and pull and change through local politics. I think there's a lot to learn from what is possible. I think there's a lot of translating that needs to be done. I think even as constituents who are marginalized communities, that stuff is so unclear. Right. How do you go participate at a city Council meeting? What do you mean? I only have three minutes to tell you about your stupid policy item on the agenda. What do you mean you're going to vote behind closed doors because we're protesting - all of these experiences? How do we demystify this process? And I think one step towards that is getting ourselves in the seats to be able to bridge that gap of understanding and education. And I feel like maybe there's a part two, in the near future of how do folks participate. Right. As just general constituents? Because the target is always moving. That is by design. We're not supposed to know, because then we know. I'm really excited to see what y’all’s trajectories look like from this moment on. I very much feel confident you're not going to become opportunistic, Mary Kay style politicians who are in people's inboxes all the time saying, Please be part of my triangular pyramid scheme. Why did I say it like that?
Oprah
I bring in three people, you bring in three people, and then we'll change the world with $1,000.
RB
Yes. Do you have any very quick final thoughts before we wrap up this moment?
Azrin
Yeah. I wanted to do a plug where I think we didn't really dive into imposter syndrome and how that played a role in our campaign and then even afterwards. But one thing is that the system will work against marginalized folks, queer folks, Black, Indigenous people of color. And the imposter syndrome becomes even a lot more real. And one thing I realized is that regardless of where we are at, what position, we all feel it. We all feel it. It's kind of like the idea of faking it till making it, but we do feel it. And the pitch that I want to give is that so often we think that we're not, especially women of color and queer women of color, we think that we're not qualified for these positions. We're trying to meet 200% before we even put our feet into the waters. Right. Whereas our counterparts might only meet like 60% of the requirements, and they could. You know, these are facts from the job. Like the job aspects, too. Right? So what I want to say is if you are passionate about creating social, public positive change and your voice is needed, your voice is needed in every single board and Commission. But don't burn yourself out. So find the places that you find healing. Find the places that you can balance. I find healing from this, but I can push against the system or make an impact in this way. Find those places and have your presence be seen in those places. Join boards and commissions, run for elected office because the experience itself is tremendous. But to see someone like you and that representation that you bring, the ideas and the enlightenment that you bring that's more powerful to our community.
Oprah
Absolutely. My final thought similar to what you said, little different take. Find your lane, okay. Find what you can bring. Find what gives you joy in the movement, in the organizing and the change making. And it could be that stuff that comes easy to you, that just natural. Find that lane, get up in it and work it out. Because maybe you don't want to have your face on 3,000 plus mailers that go to strangers homes. Maybe you want to be the designer of that mailer for that candidate who you believe in. Maybe you want to feed folks at the activists protest demonstration or you want to feed the folks who are running the campaign stuff. So find your lane and stick to it because that's where you'll get the most like joy. You won't feel like with a fish out of water or that you're a fish and we're trying to test you on how well you fly. There are some flying fish. But whatever, you know what I'm trying to say, just make sure that you do that kind of work because that's how I ran my campaign. I was like you all are going to eat you all we're going to like laugh. We're going to crack jokes. We are going to be goofy because I'm not going to become someone that I'm not to do this work that doesn't make any sense. So find your lane and go for it.
[OUTRO MUSIC STARTS]
R.B.
Our inbox is open for all of your insight, feedback, questions, boycotts, memes and other forms of written correspondence. You can contact us at lastbite@sgdinstitute.org. This podcast is made possible by the labor and commitment of the Midwest Institute for Sexuality and Gender Diversity staff. Particular shout out to Justin, Andy and Nick for all of your support with editing, promotion and production. Our amazing and queer as fuck cover art was designed by Adrienne McCormick.
[END MUSIC]