Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Demystifying The Indie Film Journey
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
yeah, yep.
I love that.
I love that trust.
I love that a producer says, look, I'm
not going to solve the problem for you.
Here's what I feel like isn't working.
And then let the creative team solve it.
This is Truly Independent, a show that
demystifies the indie film journey by
documenting the process of releasing
independent films in theaters.
Each week, Garrett Batty and I,
Darren Smith, will update you
on our journey, bringing guests
to share their insights into the
process and answer your questions.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: Okay.
Welcome to our episode, Darren.
Nice to see you.
How are you feeling?
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Oh man, I'm feeling great.
I'm excited to be here.
I'm loving that we're kind of
tackling different aspects of
the filmmaking process that we've
experienced over our careers.
And like, we're giving little mini
masterclasses about this stuff.
It's fun.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: Well,
our, my goal is to share my experience and
I don't consider myself at all a master at
anything, but if I can share my experience
and people can learn from that and what
not to do or something that would help
them in their process as far as making an
independent film that's the value of that.
We're that i'm able to offer
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
there we go.
We'll let the audience decide.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
I can't wait to talk I do love that
this season is really mirroring our
experience As far as where we are
in development of our next project.
So here we are episode four and we're
going to be talking about Notes today,
like writing notes, receiving notes how
to obtain notes on this creative process,
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
I'm very excited.
This has been something where,
you know, I've, I started.
In film doing post production sound.
And so I never had any kind of
access to or experience with notes.
But the very first thing I did outside
of sound was write a screenplay with
my old business partner and friend.
And notes was a big part of like,
how do we get this thing made?
Oh, we should talk to people.
We should get feedback.
We should do table reads.
We should get notes.
Okay, cool.
Let's do it.
And so.
I've had a, I mean, we're going
on 15 years that I've been giving
and receiving notes and I'm
excited to chat about it as well.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: my
first gig was editing and an editor
is going to, I mean, that is the role
of an editor is, you know, an offer
and receive notes and take notes and
then and then here I am, you know,
I've written 10 to 12 screenplays and.
received notes and given notes.
And so yes, I have a lot
of experience to share.
And again, hopefully it helps us
demystify the independent film process.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Amazing.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
and then Darren, we also want to
talk about a movie that we just
watched yesterday in the theater.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Yes, we do.
We'll get to that as well.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: Okay.
Week I visited with a friend of mine.
We went to went to a little deli
in down in Provo and shared script
pages and you know, I took 20
minutes to read what he had written.
He, he went over what I had written and
we just kind of talked and shared notes
and it was such a refreshing process.
It's something is so simple and
I haven't done for a long time.
And and it was and I love that we
have this Now, I mean, there's very
many writers group that we can share
writing notes as we're writing these
scripts and developing these projects.
It's such an important
part of independent film.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Yeah, that's so smart.
And it's one of the things I would
recommend to anyone listening, whether
they're a writer or a director or producer
or filmmaker is like join groups of peers
that are on the same journey as you.
Right.
And so if you are a writer, joining a
writer's group gives you this kind of give
and take where I love how you phrased it.
You made an offering, you, you
brought something to the table and
in a writer's group, there's this
inherent, like, I'm going to give
feedback on all of your guys's stuff.
And you're in exchange.
I'm gonna get feedback from you.
I was just in a writer's cohort
for like online writing, like
social writing and writing essays
and articles and stuff like that.
But there are like 300
people in the group.
And so you'd put up your draft and then
you'd get feedback from some of the
paid like writers and editors that are
inside the company, which was amazing.
But then you could just share
it In the group and anyone
could go check out your piece.
If it resonated from just like
the title and the synopsis of it.
And they'd go over to the Google
doc and they'd leave comments.
I have one that had like 30
different people give me comments
on, Oh, this really resonated.
Oh, this was confusing.
Oh, I didn't get this part.
And it was such an important
part of the process.
And I'm really proud of the three
pieces that I wrote in that cohort.
And so giving and receiving notes.
Super important.
But when you've got that kind of
give and take where you're not
just asking for notes, you're
actually giving something in return.
I think that's an important
principle here too.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
There, you bring up a good point.
There does have to be a give and take.
As a film producer, you, you receive
scripts or ideas or pitches frequently.
I would, I would imagine there's
a significant time investment.
To give notes.
And that would probably slow down
whatever else you're working on.
What, how do you handle that?
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Yeah.
What I've,
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
can you read my script?
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
can you read my script?
No, I I'll a word of caution to
people that are listening to this.
Like, don't have your very first
message to somebody, especially
producer B, will you read my script?
It's just such a bigger ask
than maybe you understand.
So what I've been doing as a
producer is been telling writers,
like, send me a Treatment.
Set me a synopsis.
Send me something that's just
written in like a narrative format.
It's not a screenplay.
Send me something that tells
the story in 5 to 15 pages.
Because I can read that in
20 minutes and I can be like,
Whoa, you've got something here.
I see what the hook is.
I see who the characters are.
I see what, where the obstacles
are and their intentions.
And I know that this
could be very cinematic.
I can get all that from
a 10 or 15 page document.
It doesn't really matter for me as a
producer at this point, if you know how to
do proper formatting on a screenplay, what
I want to see is, can you tell a story?
And if I could do that in 15 or 20 minutes
versus two hours, which is two hours to
read the script and then another hour
or two to consider it and give notes
and send an email, you're talking half
a day that you're asking someone To read
a full screenplay and give notes, which
I'm happy to do for people that I have
a working relationship with, or I have a
longstanding friendship with, but, but not
people that are messaging me on DM or in
DMS on social media for the first time.
So chunking it down and saying,
Hey, can I send you, let me
do it this way too, because.
It also matters that it aligns
with what I'm doing, right?
So if someone's going to send
me an R rated slasher horror
movie, I don't produce those.
So, maybe don't.
But, if you've got the next, you know,
Garret Batty esque movie, and it's family
friendly, and there's a faith element,
and it's inspiring, and it's something
you could watch with the whole family,
you could say, Hey, I've got something
that I think perfectly aligns with
what you're doing with Producer Fund.
I'd love to see if you'd
be willing to take a look.
I'm happy to send over a
short synopsis, send it over.
Cause now you've done the homework to tell
me that you, this is something I would
actually value and want to check out.
So there's some thoughts
from the producer's side.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
No, I think that that's wonderful.
I think the only thing that I
would add to that as a producer is
because I get that as well weekly
people will send scripts or ideas.
I usually try to respond with
again, it's gotta be aligned with
what I'm interested in doing.
But I and I, I'm.
It's always more helpful.
I think when there is a specific
question or an understanding
is is what are you looking for?
You know, will you read my script?
Yeah, it's fun script, right?
What are you looking for?
Are you looking for notes?
Are you looking for a commitment
to produce this movie?
Are you looking to hire me as a director?
You know, what are you looking for
before I really invest a lot of
personal like mind space into you?
What their project is, and I'll also
be very upfront and say, at this point,
I'm not looking for projects that
don't have funding attached, or I'm not
looking for projects that don't have a,
that already have a director attached.
And I think that that helps
weed out a lot of things.
It certainly probably doesn't
get what they want, which is.
Notes but from a producer's
standpoint, if we gave notes to every
single script that came across our
desk we'd never produce anything.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Yeah, I, I have two thoughts,
but I'll start with one.
One is that.
You know, there's, there's this kind
of inherent ask when you're reaching
out to a producer where you are saying,
well, you take a look at this and
by doing so, will you also consider
helping me to get the next step?
So,
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
I'd, I'd want to clarify that if,
if that ask wasn't involved and
say, are you looking for a producer?
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: yeah,
and, and so a lot of times I catch
myself defaulting to like responding
to that ask, which is like, I'm
not looking for projects right now.
And that's not really what they asked.
They said, well, you look at
my script and I responded with,
I'm not looking for projects.
Maybe I'm going too far and saying
I'm assuming that they want my help.
But that kind of just tends
to be the follow up question.
90, 100 percent of the time.
Like, okay, well, will you do it?
But here's what's interesting is
like, I, we just had Luke Johnson
on the week before or two weeks
before we had him on our show.
I was in his office pitching him.
And at the end of that meeting, he
said, Hey, can I send you some scripts?
Because they're not for the
company I work for, but they
might be a good fit for your fund.
And he sent me a script.
He didn't do what you just said
of like asking for specific notes.
He just said, will you
take a look at this?
Meaning will you consider this
for your fund as a producer?
And I said, yeah, I'll take a look.
And it's a really good script that I
actually really like and am considering.
And so.
Just realizing what you
said is so important.
Like, what are you actually asking for?
Do you just want notes?
Are you at that stage?
Are you looking for this is done?
I'm ready to start fundraising
or turning it into a movie.
Those are all such important pieces of
the context that play into this give and
take this offering and this response.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
I think there's value too in if, you
know, those projects that come across
looking for notes to understand what
the, not only the style and genre or
whatever, but again, the budget and
say, look, is there a team behind this?
Is there funding already attached?
You know I'll get sent scripts that.
There's no way that they could be
done for under a certain amount
of money or the money that I
am, have the ability to raise.
it would be I think, again, if there's
not a clear understanding of what the
individual is looking for, you know, do
they want notes or my perspective from
a producer and say, yes, yeah this is
a 20 million movie and it would require
this and this and this, and you'd have to
shoot in various locations and so forth.
Or are they looking for
just story notes and like,
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Yeah.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: care.
They don't care about
budget and stuff like that.
And those are two different
reads when I, when I read those.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: I often
ask for context of like, are you looking
to produce this at a certain budget
or is this something that you're going
to submit to blacklist or to studios?
Like, are you a rep writer?
Do you have an agent who
could send it around town?
Like all those things very much play into
the kind of notes I'm going to be giving.
And one other quick thought is like,
yeah, It feels sometimes like I've
done this in the past too, where
like, man, if I could just have so
and so attached as a producer, then
my life will change dramatically.
Right?
Like the project will get funded.
It'll make a billion dollars
and I'll have a career forever.
And it's like giving someone that
doesn't even know you yet that much
power over your future in this industry
is pretty risky in my, my opinion.
And so I would just urge listeners
to do what we've said over the
past, I don't know, 30 episodes
or whatever we're at of like, take
the responsibility for yourself.
Like if, if you're passionate about
this project and someone says, no,
don't let that deter you keep going,
find someone else, do it yourself,
become a producer, like find the
financing, put the team together.
I'm not special in that I have some
superhuman ability or a gift from,
from the gods to like produce movies.
Anyone can just choose to be a producer
and then start producing one day.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Okay, so Darren, we've talked a little
about how to obtain notes, right?
I
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Yeah.
How to ask?
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
guess how to ask for notes.
And maybe, maybe the note is, or the
takeaway is, when you're approaching
a person, is there a specific Note
in mind that you're looking for.
Can you limit the ask?
Be respectful of that individual's time
know as an independent filmmaker saying
look, do you feel like there's a hook
in the first pages of this script or?
Do you feel like this movie could be
done for a certain amount of money or
And so forth have a specific ask and
that would help facilitate like help
balance, you know, give and take of that
exchange what where you You Give notes.
I want to talk about two different things.
I want to talk about receiving notes
then a screenwriter or as a producer
you know, you've sent it around and
People have, there, there are tons of
different opinions that have come back.
You've got conflicting notes.
You, Hey, change the main
character to a female.
Hey, you know set this in a
different period, you know, and,
and, and they're all different
notes or just a different movie.
And then there's some valuable notes
where as a producer, how do you
balance those and who do you listen to?
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Yeah.
Well, I, I think you first have to do
what we just said in the first part of
this episode, which is like, did you,
did you give the right kind of context?
What kind of notes are you looking for?
And so one of the things that I
spent literally years Kind of giving
myself a, a, a master's degree in
screenwriting and storytelling.
The, the amount of books and courses
and coaching and stuff that I, I
did from like 2016 to 2020 is a
lot, like it's the equivalent of
doing a master's degree in writing.
Like I did a lot of research and
study and education on this because
I knew I wanted to be a producer.
And I knew that one of the
things that you have to be really
good at as a producer is story.
Like if you just, if you just film a bunch
of flashy action stuff and there's no meat
on the bones, then you've got a popcorn
movie that doesn't satisfy an audience.
And that wasn't interesting to me ever.
And so I really resonate with.
Stories that are well told.
Some of my favorite screenwriters
are like Edgar Wright and Simon
Pegg and their trilogy of movies.
You know, Christopher Nolan
and Jonah Nolan, his brother,
that write movies together.
Just the, the layers and layers
of story and payoffs and character
development and The way that they
could make you cry in one scene and
laugh in the next, like, those are
all the things that drew me to being a
producer because I wanted to recreate
that for others with other stories.
And so I think as, as a producer going
into, I'm going to be developing stories.
I'm going to give notes on things you,
I think you have to have done the work.
To be able to confidently say,
this is what's missing for me here.
And you have language to explain, not just
this scene isn't working, but here's why.
And you've got language around it,
and you've got clarity, and you've
got understanding, and you've got
expertise because you're saying,
I, I know what I'm talking about.
You can, you can accept or reject
my notes based on what you feel,
but here's what I see is going on.
And it's less about.
I'll say it this way.
I want to check a box of, is
there emotional content here?
I want to feel something.
Did I feel something
from reading a script?
Then that's a good sign.
But then most of my notes are,
this is where it is working and
this is where it's not working.
And this is how to maybe solve
the parts that aren't yet working.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Think that that's, there's
a lot of good insight there.
And it made me think of experiences.
Where as a screenwriter, I'm receiving
notes, you know, conflicting notes from,
from different producers or whatever
it is or as an editor again, receiving
different notes, I think that there's
always, it's always important for me
to remember that there's a reason for
the note, whether it's a note that I
agree with or not, there is a, that
there's Something I have written,
or created, or directed, instigated,
like, gave somebody enough pause,
they are going to give a note there.
Now, whatever that note is, that
has to be their opinion, may or
may not be the direction of the
story that I'm trying to tell.
But, I have to pay attention to
the fact that that caused them
to stop from experiencing this
story, and to make an objection.
And
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: big.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
it's not surrendering your creative
control to listen to a note.
I think it's in fact, more enabling it.
It's not a backseat driver is saying,
okay, thank you for helping me avoid that
pothole, but I'm still steering the car
I've been in situations where you
know, I've sat with a screenwriter,
I'm the director, a screenwriter,
and we're in a classroom setting.
It was a writer's group and
they had all read the script
and they were giving feedback.
And the screenwriter became
very, very defensive.
And so here we are, we showed up, they
had all read the script, we showed up
to notes to listen to this writers group
these You know, they're they're students.
So they're not expert writers
or anything like that.
And but know, you have to go into the I I
I try to go into the mindset Look, we've
either happen to have written the best
screenplay in the history of the world
there's an opportunity to improve it.
And most likely there's an
opportunity to improve it.
And so and myself were sitting
in a, in a classroom setting
and I'm asking for notes.
Our goal is to tell the best story as
students started to give notes, the
screenwriter became very defensive and
first it was you know, then the screener
said, I think on the maybe I think on
page 27, you should try this or this
caught my attention and the screener
goes, Oh, well, let me tell you why that,
let me tell you why that's happening.
And I just, I thought, Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Like, Timeout, this is not a conducive
environment to like receiving notes.
And it, it, it's that, that experience
has stayed with me because the class
became very combative and it, one,
we didn't get any positive feedback.
Like it just became, Oh, well, if you're,
if you're not here to accept notes, then
what are we, what are we even doing here?
so that experience stayed with me.
Like we have to be willing
to receive and accept notes.
when you're at your desk, you can decide
whether to put it in there or not, or
whether to make the changes, but boy,
in the moment receipt, take the note.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Yeah, it makes me think of an
experience I had as a producer about
probably seven or eight years ago.
I was in L.
A.
for some meetings, and a friend of
mine who's a screenwriter and director
down there invited me to a friend's
screening of their movie that they had
just produced and starred in and written.
And so we're go to the producer's house
and it's this like six or 7 million
house in Culver City, like super nice.
There's 2025 people there.
And we're all there to
like watch the movie.
And I'd never been to a
screening like this in LA.
And so I'm there thinking,
Oh, this is a test screening.
This is like getting feedback,
getting notes, right?
So I'm kind of watching it with the
critical eye and going, Oh, that worked.
And Oh, that didn't really work.
And Oh, the payoff didn't really land.
And so at the end the The gal who I
happen to be sitting next to, like the
writer star of the movie, gets up in
front of everybody and says, thank you.
I'd love to know if, if you
have any thoughts or any
feedback, I'd love to hear it.
And she was, I thought being sincere.
Zero people raised their hands.
I probably should have paid attention
that like, maybe this isn't what you do
here, but I, I, I go, Ooh, I got thoughts.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: Oh,
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
I go on like a five minute spiel
of your payoff doesn't land.
And that's your whole movie.
And I said, I think you
already have the parts.
I think if you took this and instead
of saying that you could overdub
it and say this instead, like I
was processing this the whole time.
I go, You do a setup here in
the first act, and then you do a
secondary callback in the middle act.
And then at the end, you get to
do this thing where there's this
payoff that I think you're after,
which doesn't quite land yet.
And everybody, like even my buddy
was like, stop, stop talking.
And I was like, Oh, you know, I'm,
I'm sorry if that, you know, if
you're not in a place to be able to
make changes or anything, but like.
I, I liked the movie.
I just, it didn't land.
So I thought you'd want to know.
And she goes, okay.
And then it, you know, we all break and
we all go get, they're drinking wine and
I'm drinking ginger ale or whatever it is.
And we're chatting afterwards.
She comes up to me and grabs my arm.
She's like, Oh my gosh,
I'm so glad you were here.
No one else is willing
to give me notes on.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
ah, okay.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
So if you, as a producer can sit
there and kind of analyze like, Ooh,
I know what you're trying to do.
What if you did this and this and
this, then I think it would work.
And then it's a collaborative thing.
Like I didn't get to go and sit in
the edit bay with them to make those
changes, but like, I kind of gave them
what I thought pieces they already
had and they could tweak and do to
get the outcome and they didn't do it.
So that's fine too.
They didn't end up making any changes.
I saw the movie on
streaming like years later.
And I was like, Oh, I wonder if they
made the change, skip to the end.
And they didn't, but it
doesn't mean I was right.
And they were wrong.
Just.
It's like interesting
experience, but yeah,
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: it,
it, it is interesting because those
situations are so tough and delicate
and, you know, you have to know at
what stage the project is in before
you, you know, in order to give notes,
I, I did a, an audience screening.
It was not a test screening.
This was, here's, you know,
we're getting ready to release
the movie in the audience.
And and this was for one of
my first theatrical films and.
You know, it's a packed theater and,
you know, at the end you hand out
the survey and it was more like,
Hey, how do we market this movie?
And the, you know, 99
percent was positive.
And here's the, you know,
Oh, try this or this.
then there's one guy that wrote like
a page and a half of like edits that
needed, you know, here's what you needed
to do for this character and so forth.
And, and it was just too,
too little, too late.
In, like, how do you, you know,
get giving notes on a screenplay.
And one of the points that it's
made is about being positive.
with what you like and
start with what works well.
I think there's value in that.
You do want to build,
you know, if somebody's.
You know, we're in this classroom setting.
Maybe the classroom could have taken more
time to build the screenwriter up Hey,
we love this and holy cow What a great,
you know rom com or whatever it was then
saying and then here's specific notes One
thing I I shy away from And it sounds like
your process is a little bit different.
try not to Tell them how to fix it and
say, look, here's something that created
confusion for me and, and as a receiver
of notes, I try to, I like to make
sure that I'm, I'm still in control.
Like, I'm not asking, I'm not
looking for as a screenwriter.
I'm not looking for you to
write this scene for me.
Is this scene working?
Why or why not?
But, but as a screenwriter, I'd
like to reserve the right to fix it.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
it's probably more my nature
than like my mindset around it.
Like, I don't know that I chose
that that is the right approach
other than that's my default.
I just tend to solve problems.
That's my nature.
But in that context, like
what are we after here?
And I think the meaning you
give to notes can, can impact
their efficacy a lot, right?
If you're saying these notes
mean that I'm a bad writer.
Well, you're not going to be very
open to receiving notes in the future
because it's a painful experience.
But if you look at notes as this
is an opportunity to make the
script and the story better, and
it's this separate thing from you.
Yes, it's your baby.
Yes, it's your artistic output, but
if you can separate yourself and
your ego from the work, then all of a
sudden you can invite collaborators to
come and look at this piece of work.
Independent of you as the
writer, the creator and saying,
Ooh, what if we did this?
Ooh, what if it looked like that?
Ooh, come look at it from this angle.
You might see what I'm seeing.
And then it becomes this separate thing
that doesn't have any impact on you as an
individual or as a writer or as an artist.
And in my experience, those note
sessions go way better than the
ones where it's, you can tell that
they're clinging to every word.
And if you give any sort of negative
or constructive feedback, It's like,
Oh, you think I'm a bad writer.
So I'm never going to talk to you again
because I've had that happen as well.
One of the thought though, is like,
we're after a screenplay that works.
We're after a piece of writing
that works and whatever that
means for you, that should be kind
of shared with everybody else.
What does it mean for
this screenplay to work?
Does it mean it wins a
screenplay competition?
Does it mean It can attach an actor.
Does it mean it can raise funding?
Does it mean it can get distribution?
And those are four
different outcomes, right?
Oh, you ultimately want all of
them, but which one's first and
which one are you going after now?
And if you have a screenplay that
doesn't work, well, that's the
reason to get notes to be like, okay,
this is what I'm trying to do here.
Give me notes that will help me get there
so that it's a screenplay that works.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: Yeah.
Yes.
And I love that.
And I think the way, let's see, I
think clear and concise and specific
notes are very helpful and, and
remembering that it is a writer's script.
It's not the producers yet.
And it's our, the producer's job
is to steer and guide the writer
to Not to imagine like how much
better the screenplay would be
if the producer had written it
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Yes.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Which is which is a great mindset
to be in both as a writer and a
producer and be like, oh let us
help Elevate writer and them succeed
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Yeah, I had a friend who gave me that
experience, not gave me, but shared an
experience with me about how they brought
on an executive producer who helped
raise some of the money for the movie.
And then that, that executive producer
started writing script pages and scenes.
For themselves to be in the movie.
And it's like, Ooh, you know, that's a
overstepping unless it was part of the
contract, which I don't think it was.
And B it's not going to jive, right?
Like you've got a writer and then
you've got an executive producer.
There's two different people who
are working separately, not in
tandem, like, and it hurt the movie.
So yeah, as producers.
I think we always need to
respect the creative space of the
artists that are doing the work.
And we're protecting that space and
we're helping them do their best work.
And whether it means giving very specific
constructive, like what if you did this,
this, and this, maybe they're really
stuck or maybe they just don't see it.
And so you have to kind of spell it out,
but that doesn't mean I'm going to dive
in and open, you know, final draft or
fade in and say, here's what I would say.
I'm not going to start typing
words into the screenplay.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: yeah,
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: but yeah.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: yeah,
thankfully so and darren that has been
one of the Like greatest collaborative
experiences that i've been on in the
past two projects with you a producing
partner And saying very where you, you
give your notes, you express your opinion,
and then you enable me to, you know,
address it or fix it or, or keep it.
I love that.
And I think you give very, very
insightful, specific, clear notes that
are always for the benefit of the project.
It's never an ego thing
or anything like that.
It's like, again, we're either
making the best movie ever, or we
can make it a little bit better.
Like, like our goal is to
make it a little bit better.
and on the flip side of
that, one of the worst.
Collaborative experience I've ever
had creatively is an EP that wanted
to sit in the writer's room, like,
and write with me, and I became
a, essentially a button pusher.
transcribing what this EP was saying.
This wasn't even my script.
I was hired to direct this project
and it became just this nightmare of
a project where it wasn't even notes.
It wasn't.
It wasn't fair to anybody and it was just
the EP sort of dictating their vision.
And we were yeah, it, it, it did not
result in an enjoyable experience.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Yeah,
notes, notes should never be a way for
you to satisfy the needs of your ego.
If you don't, if you don't feel like
you're contributing, if you don't feel
important, if you don't feel like you're
having an impact on a project, the way
to do that is not by taking over someone
else's job or giving notes that have
to be followed or else, because that's
just satisfying your ego as a producer.
And there's in my mind, no
space for that on a film set.
You have to be so in control of yourself
that you are not letting these parts of
you, these egoic parts of you, show up.
And dominate a set like that is the worst
thing you can do as a producer or an EP.
But there's this element of trust
that's inherent in there too, right?
Like you can take a note from me because
you know that I trust you with the
final decision and I'm not giving you
a note with any sort of attachment or
expectation or manipulation with it.
It's literally just, what about this?
Ooh, have you thought about this?
Or what if they said this instead?
And it's just like play.
It's like, let's jam for two
seconds in between takes.
And then you're like, Ooh, let's try it.
Or I don't think it works.
And I go great.
And I go sit in my chair and I
keep watching movies being made.
And it's amazing because
there's no ego there.
And I implicitly trust you.
So ego and trust, I think those are a
big part, whether you're on set giving
notes or whether you're giving notes.
You know, very, very early on pre
money, pre fundraising, pre anything.
And you're saying this, I'm not giving
you these notes to satisfy myself.
And I'm trying to,
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
yeah, yep.
I love that.
I love that trust.
I love that a producer says, look, I'm
not going to solve the problem for you.
Here's what I feel like isn't working.
And then let the creative team solve it.
And then vice versa.
yourself as a writer to be
like, Oh, I got us this far.
Here's what's not working.
It's obviously not working.
They're seeing whatever I've written.
They're not seeing it the way I'm seeing
it because they're, because we're making
the same movie, it's not working for them.
So how do I write it in such a way?
Does that mean change dialogue?
Does that mean change means on sin?
Does that mean change
the whole PowerPoint?
but what is, what is triggering the note?
There, I want to mention, I want
to talk a little bit about read
throughs because a read throughs are
another great way to receive notes.
And I think that that's, there's this
very vulnerable spot as a screenwriter
to like say, okay, I'm going to.
Put a draft out there and bring
in actor friends to read what
I know, what we all know will
inevitably not be the final movie.
but, but you got to do it, right?
I mean, it's a great way to receive
lot of input in an evening of time.
What's your been, have you had
an experience for read throughs
or what's your take on those?
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
yeah, I've produced read throughs.
Like we did one on a screenplay that my
buddy Allen and I wrote this probably
back in 2015 or 2016, where we hired
a bunch of people to come, a bunch of
actor friends to read a bunch of parts
and we were there, we recorded it.
We filmed it.
And then we spent, you know, the
hour and a half to read through it.
But then we had another hour set aside
for notes because we wanted the actors
take, tell me about your character.
And, and a lot of the notes were,
it just feels underdeveloped.
It just feels like I'm standing
in a corner, not doing anything.
You're like, Oh, you're right.
And that's a blind spot for early
or younger writers who maybe haven't
acted before to go, Oh, I've got six
people in this scene, but two people
are talking and one of those other six.
People said one word and they
don't have a purpose to be there.
And that makes a big difference, not
just on the story and the characters,
but imagine fast forward to production.
You got four people that were hired for
the day to stand around in a, in a room,
and they don't have anything to do.
They don't feel good.
You don't feel good.
Your budget doesn't feel good, like.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Budget hurts.
Yeah.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: So
catching those things early, early
on, and then being able to say, Oh,
let's not just bring in a producer,
a writer, director's perspective.
Let's bring actors perspectives who are
playing and embodying these characters.
They're going to know, Oh,
this feels really good.
I want to read, I want to perform
this part because it's so meaty or
I don't even see why you need this
role that we didn't do anything.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: As
a screenwriter, you know, I've done,
I usually do a big read through this
is before you've cast before, know,
anybody's, you know, before you've
raised money, whatever, you might have
a little bit of development funds, your,
your, or even if, even as a writer for
hire, I'll do a, you know, get my draft.
Usually it's my second draft.
Cause that first draft, we all know
is just kind of the garbage draft.
It just lets us kind of spit out the idea.
And then the second draft is okay.
Now this is starting to take shape.
And then, yeah, I'll, I'll either hire
or, you know, post and get volunteer
actors, whatever it is, and, and we're
very transparent, Hey, we're doing
a read through on a script that I've
got to deliver next week, or a script
that I'm working on, we'd love to have
you come and, you know, there'll be.
Pizza and we'll hang out
for a couple of hours.
We'll read the script and then talk
for an hour on notes as I love the
conversation afterwards, right?
That reading the script
together with the actors.
And usually I like to read the mise en
scene because I know the tone and the
voice of the script, or if I'm going
to have somebody else read that, I make
sure that they've read the script prior.
So they know even kind of what the tone
and feel is, because that can just derail
a project if somebody is not, if that.
know, between dialogue is messed up.
That'll just kill the whole read
through, the vibe of the read through.
But then and I, I also tell the
actors, say, look, not acting.
This is not an audition.
Like don't overread, please.
Let's just enjoy, just,
just let it wash over us.
And then we do, it takes, it takes
an hour and a half to read the
page script, a hundred page script.
And then we take an hour to talk about it.
And again, the same principles apply
as far as receiving notes where I'm not
trying to correct or excuses or say,
Oh, well, this is why that one, or,
you know, they say, Oh, I don't think
that this character is doing a lot.
Okay.
Well, here's why, because
in the next scene, no, no.
That's not the time for that.
I just go, just sit and take notes.
And I even take notes while they're
doing the read through and say, why
did they read the line that way?
What have I written that cued them
to read the line as a, you know,
as a confused question when it
should be a direct statement, know,
what have I written before that?
Or, you know, and so.
It's very, very valuable to do and a great
way to get even unsaid notes on a script.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Yeah,
I've loved the Zion's Film Fest has
started doing table reads as part of their
festival, which has been really cool.
The last few years to sit in on those
a like it gives I've had a lot of
other producers reach out to me and
say, will you come to our table read?
And it's like, yeah, I I'll sit there for
an hour and a half or 2 hours and, you
know, And just take it in and give you
two minutes of my thoughts afterwards.
That's way easier since I'm already there.
I've already dedicated the
time to be at the festival.
It's easier than setting aside the time
at night in bed to read screenplays.
When my wife's like, do
you want to watch the show?
It's like, I'm reading a screenplay, but
I've loved it because you can get audience
reactions to, you can see if they laugh
or see if they gasp, if there's something
that happened or see if they react.
That's really important data when
you're that early on in the process.
And then it's been so fun to go up to
the filmmaker friend afterwards and
say, wow, that really, really worked.
Or like, Hey, that's pretty
good for where you're at.
Like, I'd love to have a conversation
afterwards or whatever it might turn into.
It's a cool thing they've set up.
So, If you haven't listened to the
episode we did with Marshall and Michelle
Moore about PR and film festivals,
they're the ones who are running that.
And it's pretty cool to be a part of it.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: Yeah.
We've got a board meeting
tonight for the science indie
film fest coming up in February.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
There you go.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
yeah, it should be, it's a
good, good plug for them.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: You
know, we had one other aspect of notes,
but I think we save it for another
time, this idea of notes during pre
production or when you're on set.
Like that seems like another
conversation we can have another
time when we're in that part of the
process, but I feel really good about
the convo we've had today so far.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Yeah, I agree.
Great, great content.
Hopefully, hopefully this
is helpful and beneficial.
Again, it, it comes from a place of
this is, this is my experience as
a filmmaker, again, I've done eight
features and a number of different, you
know, hundreds of different projects.
Notes have been at constant part of those
either client or notes or whatever it is.
And so it's an important,
important aspect of filmmaking.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Does this mean we get to talk about
the movie we saw yesterday now?
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Oh, what a great experience.
So thank you.
Yes.
We went to the theater yesterday
and watched a movie that doesn't
need any notes Interstellar.
the 10 year anniversary
re release on IMAX.
And it was just a thrill to watch.
It's one of my favorite movies.
I watch it once a year.
But to see it again in theaters
in IMAX with my son and my
wife it was just such a joy.
It was fun to see you there too.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Oh man,
I watched that movie when it came out, and
I remember going, That's a big, awesome
movie, and I love Christopher Nolan.
Like, he's so good.
Right?
That was kind of the takeaway.
Because I had young kids at the time.
They were like, Three, one,
and newborn when it came out.
And so I probably was just underslept
and tired when I watched it.
And I haven't watched it like at home.
I haven't seen it since
theaters 10 years ago.
So seeing it this time.
A, the craft and the, the level
of filmmaking prowess that
every single person brought
to the table was astounding.
Like the, the actor's performances
and the direction and the
cinematography and production design
and everything was just bonkers.
But man, I, I was crying, not just
tearing up, like crying multiple
times because I have a 13 year old
and 11 year old and a 10 year old.
And like the idea of that, like I
was in the place of Cooper, of, of
Matthew McConaughey's character.
And I could so much more resonate with
the emotions he must have experienced.
And my gosh, I don't really think
I appreciated the performance that
McConaughey gave, but it is Oscar worthy.
It is so good.
And I can't imagine being, you know,
suspended from a rope in a, in a stage
across a green screen and then having
to process in real time what he was
going through at the end of that movie.
Like just the level of, of talent
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: Yeah.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: craft
again, that he had just blew me away.
It was so, so good.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: Well,
it we weren't the only ones to see it.
It did 4.
6 million on its re release.
It came in as the number six
film over the weekend and,
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
That's incredible.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
of 12, 000 per, or excuse me,
27, According to Box Office Mojo,
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
That's amazing.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
good for them.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Gosh, that's huge.
It's massive.
Like,
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
I also watched, I also screened
The Piano Lesson, which I got
on a producer's guild screener.
And what a, what a made film.
First time film director, Washington.
Denzel's son,
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: yeah.
John David.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
John David is in it.
And then his brother directed
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Oh, no way.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: Yeah.
It's a total family project.
His
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Did not know that.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
end of the film, they
dedicated to their, their mama.
They said, and,
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Crazy.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
again, very, very watchable movie.
Very I watched it with Sherry and,
and really enjoyed the lighting
and cinematography were standouts.
It
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Wow.
Wow.
Wow.
That's awesome.
I need to join the PGA so I can
get screeners every Christmas.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: It is.
It is like Christmas comes early.
We just got the Moana two screener,
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Oh, nice.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: The
number one movie in theaters right now.
So
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Yeah.
That's been our, that's been our
theater going this last little while.
Like I, I saw Juror number
two, but everything else I've
seen has been big releases.
I saw Moana two with the
family, Wicked with April,
Gladiator two with, with Allen.
We saw Red One as a family,
saw Interstellar with you.
Like.
I haven't seen any of these
other these other indie releases.
I mean, I, I would put Y2K as an indie
release, but like it's 2, 100 screens
by A24, it doesn't feel like an indie
release anymore on that many screens.
So yeah, I feel like I, I, I
need to go and see Bonhoeffer.
I haven't seen that.
And there's a couple others,
Enora that I wanted to see.
Heretic, Conclave, A Real Pain.
Like there's a bunch and I think
they're all out of theaters now.
I waited too long to see a
bunch of these great indies.
So yeah, no screeners for me.
I'll wait till streaming.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
want to come up we can do a screener
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Hey, there we go.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
movies because Everything you've
mentioned so far is sitting in my app.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Oh, that's awesome.
Okay.
Done deal.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
darren what a great episode.
Thank you very much.
No notes No notes on this
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: No notes.
Thanks, man.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642: but
please and, and thank you to everyone
for listening and sharing the podcast.
We're seeing continual growth each
episode, and we love that people
are sharing and commenting and, and
sending in questions or thoughts.
Keep it up.
daren-smith_2_12-10-2024_102642: Yeah.
Thanks, man.
garrett-batty_2_12-10-2024_102642:
Take care.
Thank you for listening to this
episode of Truly Independent.
To join us on the journey,
be notified of and ask us
questions about today's episode.
Head over to 3coinpro.
com slash podcast.
And put in your name and an email address.
If you're a fan of the show, please
leave us a review on your favorite
podcast app and be sure to share this.
Thanks for listening.
And we'll see you next week.
Our intro and outro music is
election time by Kjartan Abel.