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On Stepping Up STEM, host Dr. Pamela McCauley explores the intersection of science, technology, engineering and math, and the barriers marginalized communities face within these fields. Join her as she sits down with impactful and passionate leaders making a difference in STEM education, innovation and entrepreneurship as they share their experiences and insights on how to create a more inclusive and diverse STEM community.
Laura Rodgers - 00:00:03:
We have got to get STEM teachers in our elementary schools and they need to be diverse. I don't know how to go about doing that because what STEM person is going to take a 75% cut in pay to teach in an elementary school?
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:00:27:
Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math are all great careers, but they're also filled with additional barriers to entry for women, people of color, and other amazing members of our community who have been historically marginalized in STEM. I'm Laura Rodgers, and welcome to Stepping Up STEM. On this show, I'm having conversations with impactful and passionate leaders making a difference in STEM education, innovation, and entrepreneurship. My guest today is Laura Rodgers,, Cybersecurity Senior Manager at North Carolina military business center. Laura also chairs the North Carolina Interagency Cybersecurity Coordinating Committee, and she has developed several cybersecurity tools for defense contractors that can be found at cyberNC.us. Laura, my friend, welcome to the show.
Laura Rodgers - 00:01:16:
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:01:19:
Well, it's just a pleasure to see you and hang out with you. And you're just amazing. I'm so glad to have you here. So I just shared a whole bunch of stuff that you do. This is one person doing all of these things. And we know how important cybersecurity is, and we know that there aren't a lot of women, particularly leaders in cybersecurity such as yourself. So tell us a little bit about how you got into cybersecurity.
Laura Rodgers - 00:01:43:
Well, it's really kind of interesting. I am not a cybersecurity expert. I'm not an IT person. My background is in business and strategic planning, and every job I've had is the big primes Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics. I've somehow managed to get myself into compliance and quality management systems and implementing those. And I also worked with the Capability Maturity Model Integration for software development. So a couple of years ago, two and a half years ago so when the Cybersecurity Maturity Model Certification CMMC started coming out for defense contractors and I took a look at the model, I was like, well, this is a quality management system and a maturity model for cybersecurity. And those are two things I know about. Wow. And I also realized after having worked in industry and working with small businesses, there was no way they were going to do this by themselves. It's too hard, too expensive, and too confusing, and certainly nothing that is necessarily in their wheelhouse.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:02:45:
Sure.
Laura Rodgers - 00:02:45:
And many of these small contractors don't even have It folks in house.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:02:49:
Most sure.
Laura Rodgers - 00:02:51:
So I decided that we had to help them. So I put together a white paper and submitted it to some state representatives and to Commerce and a few others at the Capitol. And I hope was to get a statewide strategy for Cybersecurity because the defense industry is the second largest industry behind agriculture in the state. Now it's way behind, but it is there, so it's significant. So I wanted to figure out a way to help them. Well, they didn't bite. So it was like, well, I guess we're on our own. My boss and I started the Interagency Cybersecurity Coordinating Committee, which going forward, I will call I three C because it's a mouthful. And we have universities. NC state is on there.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:03:34:
Okay.
Laura Rodgers - 00:03:35:
Many universities, community colleges, and state agencies all kind of coming together to try to figure out how to solve this problem and to turn this problem into an opportunity for the state. Because truly, cybersecurity could be an economic development tool.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:03:50:
It sure could.
Laura Rodgers - 00:03:51:
If we can secure the state, that's very attractive to business to come into the state, a state that actually supports cybersecurity. So that's kind of the plan, and that's what we've been doing. Well, that's fascinating. We're building an ecosystem. It's growing every day, and it's very exciting, but we still could use some state support.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:04:12:
That is great. So you're a woman who means business, so I see that state support coming. So I understand you also work with small businesses. So talk to us a little bit about what the work you do with small businesses.
Laura Rodgers - 00:04:24:
Okay, so I do work with small businesses on cyber. I built some tools and have the website, and I teach a class every week for small defense contractors to get them to cyber. I start from the very beginning. The company has nothing in place. That's what we assume and how to revise their vision and their mission and embed cyber into the culture of their company. Because cyber is not a person. It's not a department. It's a value, just like quality.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:04:54:
Can I just say this how important that is, particularly for many businesses that want to do business with the federal government? So tell us continue more about the course.
Laura Rodgers - 00:05:02:
So I work with them, I consult, and I teach the class, and I have my tools, and I'm also working on building the ecosystem. And then the other part of my job is business development, and I'm kind of slowly getting out of that and more into cyber. If companies are wanting to do business with the federal government, if they've been in business for a while, then I can help them understand what they have to do to become a federal contractor. And it is very difficult to be a federal contractor, but it can be very lucrative. In 2020, there were, I think, $7.4 billion worth of prime contracts in North Carolina in federal contracting.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:05:42:
Wow.
Laura Rodgers - 00:05:42:
It affects every single county in North Carolina. So it can be lucrative. It's just that it's very difficult. So we help kind of sort of knock down some of those barriers because we know how to navigate it and then help them if they get a request for proposal and they don't really understand. I teach a class on how to what you call shred an RFP. So you go through it line by line, and what is important and what's not and what you need to do.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:06:08:
Oh, wow. I'm sure that helps reduce some of the intimidation.
Laura Rodgers - 00:06:12:
It does, because RFPs can be very intimidating. And then I teach a class on how to do market research and use the tools that the federal government has available that you can use to research your competition and look at what agency is buying what you sell and things like that.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:06:29:
That is fantastic.
Laura Rodgers - 00:06:31:
Small companies teaching them those things because they don't have the money to hire a business developer. And we're state funded, so they get my services free to them.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:06:42:
That's exactly what was going next is how much does it cost? So these services are free?
Laura Rodgers - 00:06:46:
Yes.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:06:47:
Do many people know about this?
Laura Rodgers - 00:06:49:
Well, we try to get the word out. We have lots and lots of training on our website that we have done, especially during COVID, everything went virtual.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:06:57:
Is it still virtual?
Laura Rodgers - 00:06:58:
We just had our defense technology symposium in person down in Fayetteville this week. On Tuesday, I was down there for that. We had our flagship event, which is our Federal Construction Infrastructure summit in Wilmington in April. We had our medical biomedical event in Chapel Hill a couple of months ago. So we're getting back into yes, and we're all over the place. I spoke this past Saturday at Wake Tech. I mean, we're everywhere. It's just that there's so many companies out there. It's very hard for them to all know. Sure, we're there, but we've been in existence since 2005.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:07:34:
Wow, that is wonderful. And for anyone who might be listening to this, what kind of company would be a good fit for coming to some of your training to try to get this kind of business?
Laura Rodgers - 00:07:45:
Any kind of company. The Federal Government buys everything from socks and underwear for soldiers and boots to weapon systems, and all of those require a supply chain. So even though you may not prime a contract, we can help position you to subcontract as well.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:08:04:
That's a really good point.
Laura Rodgers - 00:08:06:
And I connect people to team.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:08:08:
Okay.
Laura Rodgers - 00:08:09:
So I have a company right now that's wanting to team on a giant contract that's coming out, and it's a woman owned business and she's looking for teammates. So she and I work once a week and we're together. Okay, who can we call? Who can we get? Because she can't afford someone to do that kind of research and help her with that.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:08:30:
That's a big deal because I think there are a lot of businesses who might want to go after federal contracts, but there's the intimidation factor and thinking, this is so big, I could never do it. But to have a resource like you to be able to sit down with them and talk to them and then identify partners, I mean, that's priceless.
Laura Rodgers - 00:08:47:
Well, it really and we all have different capabilities on our team, and we're from the west all the way out to the coast. We're at a variety of different community colleges. I'm at Wake Tech.- RTP campus, and we all have different capabilities. And we have people who are subject matter experts in different industries as well, like I am cyber, we have medical and construction and textiles, all those kind of things.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:09:12:
That is so neat. And before we finish it, I want to make sure that people know how to get in touch with you. So let's say someone listening wants to get started. How would they get started in the federal government?
Laura Rodgers - 00:09:24:
Well, for starters, they can't be a start up. Federal government will not in general, do business with a start up because it's too high risk.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:09:33:
Okay.
Laura Rodgers - 00:09:34:
Unless you are doing R and D for particularly the DOD. And they're funding you through a grant. And it's real niche type of product to service that typically it's something that the warfighter needed yesterday. Those kind of things you can do as a startup in general. Everyone else needs to be in business for a few years. So the DOD has a warm fuzzy. The federal government has a warm fuzzy that you're going to stay in business and you know what you're doing. But the best thing to do if you want to be in the federal marketplace is to go to an organization called The GCAP, the Government Contracting Assistance Program, and just GCAP, Government Contracting Assistance Program, and they will help get you, guide you through the basics. And we can, too. But you have to get registered in the system for word management. There's a lot of regulation type things you have to look at first, so I recommend checking with them. But you can also check with us. If I have the time, I'll help a company that's just wanting to get in. If I don't, I typically refer them to the GCAP, but we generally work with companies kind of that are already in the space to help them build.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:10:47:
Okay. It's so wonderful to hear about these resources because I run into folks all the time who are interested in federal contracting. I've done it for several years, but there really is that intimidation factor. But there is so much help out there for it. So I want everyone to remember GCAP and because you can reach out to Laura, but also really think about that GCAP. Now, Laura, we had the most wonderful time when we first met on that panel. This is a panel by North Carolina to a NT State University. And so we were talking about diversity and many other things, and I was so impressed with your commitment to diversity. And talk to me about that. How did you get I mean, I know obviously being a woman in cyber, and there are very few of them, but talk to me a little bit about how you got so fired up about this.
Laura Rodgers - 00:11:39:
Yeah. So in cyber there I think 74% are men. It's kind of a tough nut to crack. And the story that I told you that it was a very cathartic moment for me. I guess I went to see the movie Hidden Figures, and the background on that is when I started my career in 1982, I was on the MX Missile, and then I moved on to Titan Missile. So I was in the aerospace program. Okay, I go to see Hidden Figures, and I came out of the movie and I literally couldn't see. All I could see were flashes of light. I guess that's how high my blood pressure had gotten. I was so angry that I just felt like I couldn't function. And I thought to myself, I was in the space program. How is it that I didn't know about these women? And I am a firm believer in inspiration. I look to others for inspiration. I want to be able to inspire other people. And I think what gets me and you do about that is we lost two generations of women who did not know that it was possible for them to do a job like that. And that's gone forever. We cannot get that back. And that is a tragedy of epic proportions. It still makes me angry because not everyone grew up like I did, with a strong mother and pushing me and pushing me. Some people need that inspiration and that to hang on to and know that those women did that. And now I can do that too.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:13:19:
Absolutely.
Laura Rodgers - 00:13:20:
If you don't know that right. If you don't see that, you might not do that. I just am sickened by that. I just can't even believe it.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:13:29:
And see, when you put it that way, that is so powerful. Because putting it that way helps us understand why it's important today, too, that we continue to put these role models in front of young girls and young women. It still shocks me that today, today in 2022, there are still girls who are wondering if they can have some of these careers. Three weeks ago, I was asked to do opening little video to introduce engineering to a group of pre-college girls. And these were middle school and high school girls. And one of the folks wrote me a letter afterwards and said, you had some converts. That one girl said, wow, maybe I really can be an engineer. We're still having to convince them today. But to your point, if we had taken these opportunities generations ago, it might not be as hard today.
Laura Rodgers - 00:14:19:
Well, it wouldn't be as hard. And think where society might be the solutions.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:14:26:
Exactly.
Laura Rodgers - 00:14:27:
Brilliant minds and the diversity of thought preach Lord. Bring to the table. How many problems could we have solved right now had we just used the intellect, the brain power, and the creativity of all these other people that weren't allowed at the table? I can't tell you how many times a day I look at my watch and go, what year is this? I did it this morning. I was on a call and I didn't say anything to anybody. But I'm like, okay. I do that several times a day, I think. And it's like, I just cannot believe that things are still like they are, right? In the year 2022.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:15:09:
I agree. I was talking to some friends about this and saying, you know, how do we move this forward? Here we are, you and I, out here, we're talking to businesses, trying to get more businesses to find funds, particularly women and people of color, minority owned businesses, and then trying to get them in the pipeline from an educational standpoint. I've been doing feel like I've been doing that my whole career. Then you, as you said, awareness about what you can do. So how do we change it? Is it in the media? Do we have more conversations like this? I feel like we keep talking and sometimes we're talking to the same audience, right?
Laura Rodgers - 00:15:44:
It's the echo chamber, right?
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:15:47:
Let's get out here into some of these rural communities and talk to these young students. Let's go to the inner city. It seems like, again, we're not reaching them, but we've got YouTube everywhere. Do we need to put some more YouTube introduction to engineering out or more hidden figures? I'm so open for suggestions.
Laura Rodgers - 00:16:06:
Here is one of my suggestions, and this is a theory on my part, but I really believe that we have to start when these young girls and boys are in elementary school. And I'm not here to bash anybody, but if you look at who teaches Elementary School, it's typically liberal arts majors. Now, a liberal arts major is not going to get goosebumps when they're teaching Math and Science to these young children. And I know this because I was there. I watched what happened with my kids, and they were fortunate to have a mother who pushed that. And again, I'm not bashing liberal arts. There's a place for that. But we have got to get STEM teachers in our elementary schools, and they need to be diverse. Because I remember when they brought people in for Career Day, it was all straight white guys, right? Nothing wrong with that. It's just that it didn't resonate with me, certainly. But we have got to get that in our Elementary Schools. And I don't know how to go about doing that because what STEM person is going to take a 75% cut in pay to teach in an Elementary School?
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:17:21:
Right?
Laura Rodgers - 00:17:22:
But if we don't do that, we are not going to embed that enthusiasm for STEM, particularly in girls, because we see that drop when they hit middle school.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:17:34:
Middle school, that's the season.
Laura Rodgers - 00:17:36:
Part of that is hormones. And so my theory is, if they can love Math or love Science, that will help bridge that stupid hormone year or sooner and keep them focused on school and their future. They see something out there beyond school that they want to do, and maybe that will help keep them focused. That's just the theory. I have nothing.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:18:01:
No? Well, let me give you some information that supports your theory. NSF, the National Science Foundation has what is called RETs or Research Experiences for Teachers. And it's designed to do just that to get teachers engaged in STEM. And so elementary, middle school, high school. But to your point, if we can take some of these elementary school teachers and then introduce them to research and STEM and get them enthusiastic about it, they're going to teach it a completely different way.
Laura Rodgers - 00:18:30:
Yes, if they will be enthusiastic.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:18:32:
Right.
Laura Rodgers - 00:18:33:
But when I used to teach, I taught for two years in middle school, and I would literally get goosebumps teaching a Math concept. And when I look out there and see the kids grasping it or some Science thing, and I don't know, isn't.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:18:45:
That such a fulfilling?
Laura Rodgers - 00:18:46:
All the time, that's like, oh, Ms. Rodgers, you're such a nerd. And I'm like, I know that, but I love it, and I own it. And I would get excited. I had this one young lady who didn't think she could do a thing, derive a formula for a trapezoid, and I handed her my phone and said, call your parents and tell them you just derived a formula for a trapezoid, and they won't even know what a trapezoid is. Maybe. Right.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:19:10:
But imagine how much that meant for her. Yes.
Laura Rodgers - 00:19:12:
And what if we all were teaching like that and to be so excited about deriving a formula? And that's what we're missing, that enthusiasm. And that just those goosebump moments about Math and Science. And we need that.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:19:32:
We do. And when I think about some other resources that maybe even we could share with other teachers you know, NASA has an amazing resource library that teachers can use. And so I'll say sometimes if I go to an elementary school or talk at a Career Day, that to teachers, don't feel intimidated. And I say to parents, if you don't know it, it's okay. There are a number of resources out here. You may not be able to get goosebumps or give goosebumps, but you can go to NASA website and download some of these amazing videos, exciting stories that they capture about Science. So NASA is just one, but I know theirs is done especially well. And I'm also wanting people to reach out to me because I'm creating a resource list for small businesses, resource lists for STEM teachers, because I think it's, again, so important that we talk to different audiences, too. That's something that you have been working on now. You're doing so many things. Laura, what would you consider to be, like, one of the most important things that you're focused on now as it relates to either cybersecurity? I know you work on your businesses and also a superstar for diversity and inclusion. So thank you for that.
Laura Rodgers - 00:20:45:
Thank you. My passion, because I'm a very patriotic person, is National Security. And so that's where the cyber comes in. That's why I'm kind of doing what I'm doing is to help defense contractors protect this information. And it's not classified. It's controlled, unclassified information. But when our adversaries get that, they can aggregate that data and find out what we're doing. For example, China made an exact duplicate of our F35 fighter jet with the design flaw in it.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:21:17:
No way.
Laura Rodgers - 00:21:18:
Yeah. And a lot of the information wasn't classified. It's controlled, unclassified, meaning it's very sensitive. So my philosophy when I talk to my defense contractors is, if China or Russia get your data, it's because they had to pride out of your cold, dead hands. You have got to protect this data. And so that is a real passion for me.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:21:39:
Do some of them not realize how important that is?
Laura Rodgers - 00:21:42:
Well, it's one of those things where you can't see it. You know how you can visualize someone breaking into your home, plundering your house, stealing your stuff. Right. Well, for a lot of us, a cyber is very abstract, and it's like, how are they getting in there? And I don't get it. And and surely to goodness, my data can't be I'm just one of the hundreds of thousands of companies. Why would they be interested in my data? And it's very, very expensive. And so, you know, a CEO is looking at competing priorities and doing some risk analysis and thinking, well, I may just have to risk that. But when it comes to defense contracting, you can't. There's a regulation there, and it says you have to protect this data, and here is how you have to do it. Here is the standard that you have to use. And unfortunately, the Department of Defense kind of kicked the can down the road for a very long time and didn't really hold defence contractors feet to the fire. And when they didn't do that, the assumption on the part of the defense contractors was, well, the Feds aren't really serious about this, so why should I be? And they weren't. And so now we've hit critical mass, and this is what we always have to do. We've got to learn the hard way. And now it's urgent, important, critical, everything. We've got to get it done. That's like trying to pull a rusty locomotive, is what it is. And so that's what I feel like I'm doing every day, is pulling a rusty locomotive and getting people to the awareness first.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:23:12:
Right.
Laura Rodgers - 00:23:13:
Okay, we've got a problem. Now what do I do? All right, here's what you have to do. Again, the expenses is prohibitive, and it's going to put some companies either out of business or out of the defense industrial base because they can't afford it. And the DIB, the Defense Industrial Base has already shrunk over 40% really? Since the Cold War was over.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:23:34:
Okay.
Laura Rodgers - 00:23:34:
And so we're losing these small businesses every day. So I love small business because it's the backbone of this country, and so I don't want them going. So that's why I teach my class every week. It's like, Come on, guys, we got to get this done so that you can still put food on your table.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:23:53:
Right? Oh, that's so sad. Well, again, thank you for everything that you're doing, because it's so important that we do everything we can to support and sustain our small businesses. But this cybersecurity, I mean, this is no joke.
Laura Rodgers - 00:24:06:
No, it is not a joke. It is huge. It's just hard to convince people.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:24:10:
Right. And how has the high degree of connectivity that we have now, how has that impacted the need to be even more secure?
Laura Rodgers - 00:24:18:
Well, if you think about we have more devices than we have people, and every device represents a vulnerability. With TikTok now, I'm the family cyber person, so I blast it out to every single person in my family. Get your teenagers off of TikTok.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:24:35:
Wow.
Laura Rodgers - 00:24:35:
Because China has taken the data. They can get in there and take all kinds of data out of that.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:24:41:
Get out of here.
Laura Rodgers - 00:24:43:
Who knows that, right? I did not. Yeah.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:24:48:
Include me on the family blast for me.
Laura Rodgers - 00:24:52:
I have a group on my mobilized platform that I sent it out. I said everybody off TikTok yesterday. Nobody on TikTok. Nobody on this. There are new threats every day. And that's one of the things that I think companies find so overwhelming, is if a large company that supposedly savvy gets hacked, how am I supposed to prevent it as a small, little mom and pop? And I think some of that is like, why should I even bother? And it's like whack a mole or plug in the dyke. You hit one, and three more threats pop up. Because those folks, that's all they do. China has more cyber warriors than we have, active duty marines. And so they are no way. bombarding, bombarding, bombarding. And they're going to find a way in. So you can be as secure as possible to be at least in today's what we know, and they're finding out tomorrow's things.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:25:50:
Right. And because this morning it's funny. We're talking about this. I thought my credit card had been hacked with my credit union, so I called them. But what happened? I connected it to an external account, and so it was giving me notices on what was going on with my external account. And then I'm like, well, darn, I don't know if I want this much connectivity, because if somebody got into that account, then they have access to my other account.
Laura Rodgers - 00:26:17:
Yes. This connected world that we're in, while it's convenient and it's really kind of cool, we all love the technology, has put us at a very high risk. I will never have a smart home.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:26:28:
That was another thing. Okay.
Laura Rodgers - 00:26:29:
I will never have a smart home. And the problem is that security is not really embedded in the products, because not really. I mean, what's happened is and even the National Cyber Director, Chris Inglis, and they finally got one at the national level, has said, we have pushed security down to the lowest level, the small business and the individual who knows zero about it. Because instead of it's, just like I was talking earlier about quality, we used to inspect quality into a product, believe it or not, back in the day. And we learned that you have to engineer quality into a product.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:27:08:
There you go.
Laura Rodgers - 00:27:09:
Well, now we're slapping cyber on at the end when cyber needed to be engineered and manufactured into that product. So I keep harping on that. All the innovators I work with and my son is learning to code, and I'm like, you better be putting security in that code, because I can't stand the thought of any more products or services coming out there and expecting some mom and pop to understand how to secure it.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:27:39:
That's such a good point.
Laura Rodgers - 00:27:40:
It's just crazy. But we have a long way to go.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:27:44:
Well, I am thankful that you are on the frontline, okay? We need you out there doing it even more. So now, if someone who wants to connect with you, Laura, how might they reach you?
Laura Rodgers - 00:27:55:
The easiest way is to go to NCMBC, which is northcarolinamilitarybusinesscenter.us. And there is a Contact Us tab and click on that, and that has all of us on there. It has my phone number and my email address, and that's happy to field any questions or if anybody needs any help, I'm happy to help them.
Dr. Pamela McCauley - 00:28:17:
Well, we are so grateful for all that you're doing, seriously, as a nation, as a state, and just as a fellow small business person and educator, just thank you for because you are doing the work of about five or six women. Okay? All right. Thanks again for joining us today, Laura. And thanks to everyone for listening. I'm Dr. Pamela McCauley, and I look forward to talking with you next time.