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Every Tuesday on the CosmoFactory podcast: Discover the latest innovations along the cosmetics and personal care supply chain. Hear thought-provoking conversations with top beauty industry experts from around the world. Learn about next-level solutions and find inspiration to turn your own ideas into industry-changing innovations.
A PRODUCTION OF Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna
CosmoFactory is the first podcast from Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna—the most important beauty trade show in the world. Dedicated to all sectors of the industry, Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna welcomes over 250,000 visitors from 150 countries and regions and nearly 3,000 exhibitors to Bologna, Italy, each year. It’s where our diverse and international industry comes together to build business relationships and to discover the best brands and newest innovations across consumer beauty, professional beauty, and the entire supply chain. The trade show includes a robust program of exclusive educational content, featuring executives and key opinion leaders from every sector of the cosmetics, fragrance, and personal care industry. Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna is the most important event of the Cosmoprof international network, with exhibitions in Asia (Hong Kong), the US (Las Vegas and Miami), India (Mumbai) and Thailand (Bangkok). Thanks to its global exhibitions Cosmoprof connects a community of more than 500,000 beauty stakeholders and 10,000 companies from 190 countries and regions. Learn more today at Cosmoprof.com
CosmoFactory was co-developed in collaboration with supply-side expert Deanna Utroske, Host of the CosmoFactory podcast and Editor of the Beauty Insights newsletter.
Alexander and Deanna
Deanna: [00:00:00] This episode is about designing polypeptides. It's about the progression of biotech in beauty. It's about topical and ingestible ingredients About skincare, wellness, longevity, and more For today's episode of the Cosmo Factory Podcast, I am speaking with Alex Lorestani, co-founder and CEO of Geltor. Alex, welcome to CosmoFactory.
Alexander: Thanks, Deanna. It's so great to be back with you.
Deanna: Yeah, no, it's my pleasure. I'm so glad you could make time and speak with me today. [00:01:00] Um. In the cosmetics and personal care industry, certainly at the, at this point in history, if I may, biotech ingredients, including peptides and proteins, uh, are reasonably common.
And this was not the case 10 years ago. Geltor, the company, um, you lead is generally thought of as one of the first, if not the first company, to bring biotech collagen to the cosmetic ingredient marketplace. So I'm hoping we can start with a, a quick history of the company, sort of when, how, why did Geltor get started?
Alexander: Yeah, it's, it's hard to believe that jel tour got started more than 10 years ago now. And my co-founder and I, uh, actually met more than 10 years ago when we were, uh, graduate students in the molecular biology department at Princeton and. It was the summer of crispr, as I like to say. You know, this was a, a moment in time when, you know, for people like us, um, it, it, it became clear that like the future of what biology could do [00:02:00] was gonna be really, really different from, uh, what had been possible before.
And in particular, uh, it, it. It sort of opened up the possibility of designing biology in a way. Um, that was much more, you know, tuneable and exciting, creative than, you know, what, what had ever been possible. And you know, that like over the next few years of working in the lab together and sort of, you know, uh, sharing ideas, solving problems, stuff like that, uh, you know, became a conversation about how we could go and build a.
Big protein company. That's kind of what we got excited about. Um, that was in the summer of 2015. That's when we actually started the, the, the Gel Tour Inc. Um, and what, you know, we really set out to do initially was, you know, bring together the power of, um, you know. Making proteins in a fundamentally different way, uh, through fermentation and, uh, applying sort of the emerging tool set, which relative to what we have access to today was super rudimentary.
Um, but the, [00:03:00] the emerging tool set we're designing proteins, uh, uh, sort of like building them for a purpose. So that's, uh, where things started and. I have to admit, like, you know, we really didn't know anything about the cosmetics and personal care industry. Um, you know, we were kind of in the backyard of some of the biggest players, uh, you know, being in Central New Jersey.
Uh, but it, it, it was not something that, you know, we were expert in by, by any means. So, um, our, uh, sort of exploration of the beauty and personal care industry really began, like once we started talking with anybody that we thought like could be a customer. And that's where we found this amazing fit between, uh, where, where, you know, we saw our customers, um, uh, feeling the industry heading, sort of like where consumers were heading and what, you know, biotechnology could actually deliver.
Um, so, so that's a little bit about how we got started. Uh, it's been a, a wild journey and, and a really exciting one since then.
Deanna: Yeah, no, I'm sure. And I mentioned collagen and as you have suggested, consumers today are very, um, understanding of, of this, um, of [00:04:00] this protein. Everyone working in beauty certainly understands that our, our bodies produce or synthesize collagen as the same way that, uh. Other animals do. Um, and biotech is often used now as an alternate source of ingredients.
So it's easy to imagine using biotech to make collagen right, rather than sourcing it from cows or fish or other creatures. Um, but you're not quite making like a, a mimic of an animal collagen or, or a, you know, a fish collagen, for example. Can you, can you talk to us about this idea of protein design?
Alexander: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, in, uh, in, in exploring sort of what customer's problems were, um, you know, o one of the things that we found was. Uh, customers weren't, you know, particularly, uh, wed to the types of collagens that existed, uh, in animal sources. They were really interested in these materials because of their ability to [00:05:00] deliver some kind of functionality or some kind of activity.
So what we said was alright, like if we weren't limited to, uh. Type one, type three collagen. The types of collagens that are most abundant in animal tissues, uh, which are, you know, sort of extracted through a, a sort of gruesome process frankly. Um, what if we could first just take a step back and look at all of the collagens in nature, you know, in, in just humans alone we have.
Around a diff a hundred different types of collagen molecules. They're kinda like 28 different families, and each family has a few different members. So it's, it's around a hundred. So we said, all right. Um, what if we could explore that for the collagens that had the ability to go and deliver different benefits?
Right? Whether those are benefits specific for a skincare application or a haircare application, or, you know. [00:06:00] Go down the list. Um, so that was, that was where we started. And that was a, uh, a, a natural jumping off point because our customers and consumers were already familiar with, you know, collagen, conceptually.
And this was, I think, a really nice bridge from, you know, the traditional animal derived sources of collagen to. Using biotechnology to basically unlock collagens that could not be unlocked in any other way. Right. So one of the first collagens that we focused on was human type 21 collagen, which is a signaling collagen as opposed to type one and type three, which are scaffolding collagens.
So that was like the first example of how we could use, you know, computational tools to identify. Uh, collagen sequences that had the ability to deliver particular types of performance and use [00:07:00] fermentation to unlock those at scale. Even though, you know, in humans Type 21 collagen basically disappears after you're like three years old.
So like, that was, that was, you know, the, the first step and. Over time, uh, you know, we found consumers and our customers becoming more and more familiar with biotechnology and the ability of it to deliver things that were fundamentally different from what could be sourced in nature and what could be found in nature.
And therefore interested in how we could design new things, uh, with, uh, with, with proteins as sort of the substrate for that design. So, you know, if you think about. The Huma call 21 example, as really using biotech to make the inaccessible accessible. Um, the approach that, you know, we're now spending a lot more time on with our, our customers is how can we take a, you know, perceivable consumer [00:08:00] benefit and work backwards from that, uh, into a protein design that we can then make through fermentation and, and produce.
So. That's been, that's been the journey. And right now we're finding certain segments of the market to be, uh, you know, more, more of a fit for designer proteins, uh, and other segments of the market to be more of a fit for sort of the best of what nature has to offer and what can be unlocked through biotech.
And that's, uh, that's been a part of the adventure.
Deanna: No, and I, I appreciate your sharing that because that. That last observation you made is very much, you know, something that has taken you some time to learn. And I very much want to hear from you today, Alex, about more of these highlights, right? What have you learned from 10 years of making biotech ingredients for beauty?
I've gotten to interview some folks here on the podcast who have been doing something like this for two years, or, or, you know, just getting started. So I know that, that [00:09:00] you've learned a lot, not only about biotech ingredient design, but also about. Biotech ingredient design specifically for cosmetics and personal care applications.
You know, for, for listeners who might be trying to do something similar or looking to partner with companies like yours, when you look back at this, at this decade, what are some of the most valuable things you've learned?
Alexander: I think the, um, the first thing that, you know, we've seen compound over the past 10 years is the focus on performance. There's sort of like, you know, constant discussion of, you know, different certifications and like different types of language that, you know, we use or, or don't use. But, you know, at the end of the day, uh, the, the thing that.
Is driving consumers to choose one product over another, like over and over again is, you know, whether it's like really working for them. Um, and you know, this in, in the beauty and personal care industry has [00:10:00] only, I, I would say, accelerated, uh, over the past like three to four years. Um, I think a lot of that actually has to do with, uh.
Proliferation of drugs like ozempic, right? Like the bar for performance, uh, has been raised. And you know what is more in your face than, uh, body composition. Uh, it is like a, your face is what's more in your face than body composition, like, you know, hair. And, and, and so those are, these are, these are the, you know, frontiers for, um.
Materials that, you know, can help people, you know, get the results that they're looking for and their expectations for, you know, what good performance looks like has been completely transformed in the past few years by, um,
Deanna: You know, it, we, we think a lot about like consumer expectations. We think about perceived benefits when we do, uh, you know, sort [00:11:00] of, you know, consumer perception studies. We're literally thinking about perceived benefits. Um, and that's so often talked about in the brand space. But it's interesting to hear not only from an ingredient company that you're seeing those benefit expectations shift, but also like you're developing new ingredients and you're, you're.
It, it's sort of affecting you that far back in the supply chain. It's super interesting, but go ahead.
Alexander: yeah. It will. I, I think, you know, that is, that is the, the biggest shift that we've seen in the past 10 years. Like the, the bar now is for. When we share, you know, when, when we're working with a partner and they're performing a clinical study on, you know, some of our products or, uh, you know, performance study, it, it, it basically needs to be, the expectation is that this is going to be the best performing product that they have ever seen, uh, because of these advances in technology and the understanding that something fundamentally different can be delivered.
So it has, like, [00:12:00] you know, that started out like. In a small way, 10 years ago, people, the first true believers, uh, seen the potential of biotechnology to really move the needle on performance. Uh, but that has in, in an incredibly exciting way, accelerated, uh, significantly, um, in that time. So that's, that's where, you know, we're spending, um, a lot of our time.
And, and again, just like for us, you know, there's a lot of talk around and it's important sort of like, you know, the words that we use and sort of the, you know. The, the way that the, the ways that these products are framed, but you know, performance is, uh, you know, supreme. Um, and, and that's where we think bio biotechnology can really make a difference.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's so interesting too because, you know, I think in, in years past, a consumer wants something that works well as sort of their best, their favorite product. But as you've suggested now consumers and brands are looking for something that actually is different. Um, and I, I think that's a real opportunity here.
And you've, you've mentioned the idea [00:13:00] of terminology and certifications a little bit in your remarks there. Neither you or I I don't think qualify as a regulatory specialist, but, but companies, um, in the biotech space do sort of struggle at times with, with language. Can they say animal friendly? Can they say this is vegan?
You've kind of suggested that it's, that's less relevant right, than efficacy, which we know is, is sort of chief efficacy, safety quality. These things are, are, are paramount in beauty. But do you have any advice, you know, should other companies be pursuing certifications? Should they, you know, put vegan on their, on their labels?
What, what matters?
Alexander: Yeah, well, I think it's, uh. I, I obviously, I just sort of said like, you know, I think, you know, performance is supreme, but oftentimes, like some of the most complicated parts of bringing these things to market, whether it's the ingredient or the end product, um, are things like nomenclature and, and certifications.
And, [00:14:00] um, I, I, I think that's just, that's just the way that, you know, the, the, that's just the way that things kind of work today.
Deanna: Yeah, we need to talk about it somehow.
Alexander: Yeah. Yeah. We need to talk about it somehow. Like things need to be labeled. Um, you know, somehow, and I, I think that, um, you know, there. Are a set of, um, you know, third parties that can help companies navigate this, that I think are gaining credibility with brands.
Um, you know, we, I think the example of like vegan is really interesting 'cause, you know, vegan can mean something different to, you know, one person compared to another person. Um, and, and even the certifying bodies like have some, you know, variation in terms of how they approach it. And retailers have some differences in terms of how they approach it.
So, um. What we think is really powerful about like, you know, J'S biotech platform and, you know, biotech more broadly is the ability to bring, uh, perfect traceability to how these products are made. You know, for example, the, you know, fermentation process that we use has, uh, what, you know, what we refer to as fully defined media, which is [00:15:00] just kinda like complicated way of saying like, we know exactly what is going in to this product.
Um, there's no sort of, you know, mystery powder, uh, that is going in and doing something special. It is a. Perfectly defined list of ingredients that are going in and feeding the fermentation, and then we know exactly what is coming out of that fermentation. So, you know, biotech I think is a great way for, you know, brands that are prioritizing things like traceability and the ability to get these, uh, you know, certifications that kind of relate to that.
Um, you know, relative to what you can get from. Extracts from plants or, um, you know, animal extracts, obviously.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's helpful to think about. You know, and. It strikes me that the years you have spent in the, in the cosmetic ingredient business now coincide nicely, right? With the rise of nutraceuticals in beauty, and we know many topical ingredients make sense as supplements. Do you have a perspective [00:16:00] on nutraceuticals?
Have you learned anything? Is there, there's something we wanna know from you on
Alexander: Yes. I, uh, I mean this is, this is, you know, one of the two big frontiers that we see in beauty and personal care. Um, you know, I think so much of the past 10 years from a, uh, you know, just market driver perspective has been driven historically by, you know, premiumization and like geographic expansion of these products globally and.
That has taken place within the existing, you know, product set, you know, hair care, body care, skincare, applied topically. What, you know, we are, you know, really focused on as a frontier are like the biggest beauty brands expanding. How beauty is delivered to their customers, uh, through ingestible products like the nutraceutical ones that you mentioned.
Also through more medical aesthetic type products. So this is a sort of, you know, [00:17:00] systematic, uh, expansion of like these beauty products offered by these beauty brands. Rather than buy a. You know, right now, like really fragmented set of players. It is sort of like, you know, the companies that make products that're applying topically.
And then there's, you know, I think it's like hilarious actually that the, you know, biggest like beauty, uh. Supplement companies are the ones that make like the Clorox wipes that, you know, I buy at Costco and like Purina dog food. Like that is such a disconnect. I, you know, I would think from, you know, the, the, the way that most brands are thinking about the experience that they can bring to their consumers.
Um, and then similarly, you know, medical aesthetics, like that wall between like the doctor's office and like. Sephora is, it's, it's already kind of come down and I think that we're figuring out what those businesses that, you know, sort of emerge are gonna look [00:18:00] like. So we're sup, we're super excited about this.
What I'll say is on the nutraceutical side specifically, since that was like, that was your question, it is, uh, a, a totally different, um. Ball game from a, a science perspective, right? So, so, so the, the kind of, so from a. Product design. And from a, you know, manufacturing perspective, everything that we make is food grade, right?
Like we, we do all of this in a food grade manufacturing process. Like, you know, the, the sort of, you know, front end of this is really set up nicely for adjustable products. But you know, when we start going down the road of. Uh, you know, developing the science for ingestible beauty products, uh, this is a completely new frontier.
Um, you know, we, we, we had to go and run the biggest ever clinical study in ingestible skincare just to set a baseline, right? Like, what [00:19:00] are the existing benchmarks? Doing in the market, right? From a like rigorous clinical study perspective. And what can our product do relative to them in placebo. So it is a, uh, I would say a much more complex, um, uh, effort from a scientific affairs perspective.
But like, you know. I was an Mt. MD PhD student when I started the company. This is kind of what, um, uh, what excites us when we see a big opportunity in the market and the chance for science to kind of, you know, pave a kind of big, sort of like path through that. Um, yeah, really, really looking forward to the next few years in that segment.
Deanna: Yeah. No, and and you're certainly not the only. One in the industry to notice that overlap now of beauty and health. As it were. Um, and that's, you know, been a very strong line, especially in the States, um, for regulatory reasons, but even, you know, even in the states now, it, it's like you said that that wall is, is really coming down and I think that moves us into, um.
Really what we think of as [00:20:00] the wellness movement, right? And all things longevity certainly fit in there. I do wanna mention a previous Cosmo factory episode. Um, we've covered longevity several times, but um, one example is an interview I had with, uh, Dr. Anna Amanda Nova. That was episode 73, and she and I talked about NAD plus.
In particular, it's a molecule that our industry and biologists, uh, more widely are researching for its role in longevity. I wanna think a little bit. About this with you, Alex. Insofar as you know, you've said there's, there's, there's an exciting new frontier here, really. How is sort of long longevity wellness, even like skin health affecting protein design.
Are you, are you going to create new things because this sort of category has opened up in beauty?
Alexander: Yeah, absolutely. We are, uh, we're, we're doing that right now. And, and I, I think that the, you know, when I think of cosmetics, like I, I think that was. That's like the first [00:21:00] longevity category, right? Like, I think going back, uh, going back a hundred years, you know, it's like, I, I think that the, the tools that we have are changing, but, you know, going back to, you know, like Elizabeth Arden, right?
Like, you know, these are, these are, these are like themes that have, you know, been a part of the beauty and personal care industry, uh, you know, since it's kind of like modern inception. So. We are excited to be a part of that, um, that, that work to like advance the science, uh, in, in this space and for us, like, you know, really getting to the bottom of, uh, how do we, what are like the, I I think of them as like, you know, longevity destinations in skincare.
'cause I think that we're, as a field even just trying to figure out like. What does success look like for longevity in cosmetics? [00:22:00] It's an extremely like molten field right now. I think some companies are doing a great job of like finding a destination and going super deep. Uh, so, you know, we are, I'd say right now, like very focused on the science and our ability to design proteins to make an impact, uh, you know, with, with rigorous science, but.
That's one of the areas that, you know, we are, uh, we're, we're quite active in.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we've talked a bit about collagen. Certainly this is a, a very chic protein in beauty right now, but there are many other proteins of relevance in beauty. You know, as, as we wrap up our interview here, I wanna think about elastin. Will you tell us about this protein, maybe why it's compelling in beauty, um, and what makes biotech elastin any different from, from something we could get from a different source?
Alexander: Yeah, well, you know, uh, maybe to start the story, like, one of the reasons why, you know, we, we started working on this was the fact that it [00:23:00] is unlike collagen, which is pretty straightforward to source from animals, uh, elastin. Is really, really difficult to source from animals. Uh, one reason is, you know, relative to collagen is actually really rare in the extracellular matrix or skin of animals.
So there's just not a whole lot of it to, to work with. And then from a, uh, you know, material perspective, it has different properties which don't make it as amenable to the types of, you know, chemical extraction processes that have been used historically when you're taking this stuff from, from animal tissue.
So. We thought it was fascinating that, you know, collagen, elastin, and keratin, these are kind of like, you know, three pretty common, uh, you know, materials, uh, of, of interest in cosmetics and personal care. But one of them, elastin was pretty inaccessible. So, so we started, um, we started with that as, as a point of interest.
We, uh, then, you know, as I would say, the sort of. Longevity, wellness and, [00:24:00] and beauty. Um, you know, uber category began to form, uh, saw a lot more attention being paid, paid to elastin and sort of, you know, in in particular because while. Collagen has like a pretty short half-life, you know, there's a lot more turnover and sort of like regeneration of collagen, um, in, in human tissue just as a baseline.
It, the halflife of elastin is like 75 years. So like the elastin that, you know, uh, that I have is the elastin that I was born with. The elastin I'll have when I'm 75 will be pretty much the lastin I was born with. And that means it has like a really different, you know, pattern of accumulating damage and sort of tools that you need to develop to ultimately like.
Repair it, hopefully. Uh, so, so it's a, it's a fundamentally different approach and changes to elastin have a significant impact on like the appearance of skin. So, uh, that led us to start to dive much more deeper on how can elastin be used to stimulate the production, more elastin in the skin. Um, because that would be a, a pretty powerful tool to [00:25:00] have in, in the toolkit.
Uh, similarly like. Elastin has actually an important role in, um, hair follicle, uh, you know, structure and physiology. So, you know, we are, uh, right now, you know, really like, you know, in the same way that we pioneered, you know, the, the sort of like. Collagen category in, in biotech for beating personal care really we're to do the same thing with, with elastin and, and a few other molecules.
Um, so this is, it is, uh, not our like, I would say, biggest, uh, product yet, but it is absolutely the fastest growing one. Um, and it is, uh, it's been exciting time to really push the science, um, and the, the depth of our understanding of what. A recombinant, elastin can do in, um, skin, in hair across, you know, a a variety of, uh, uh, a variety of situations.
And we actually, one of, one of my colleagues, uh, Josee, Mel Barce, he recently published in Personal Care Magazine. Uh, really interesting. Uh, publication [00:26:00] on, uh, the role of elastin, uh, and the ability of ELAs pure to, um, provide benefits in, uh, postmenopausal women. Um, so this is kinda like, you know, we'd love to sort of like go deeper into, alright, like, how can we model, um, and look at particular groups of people, um, where this may, you know, be more relevant.
Uh, I encourage folks to check it out. Just they did great work there.
Deanna: Yeah. No, and I appreciate your mentioning that. We've had a, a few episodes recently that, that speak to what we might call the menopausal consumer. Specifically and finding ingredients that have, you know, clinical data of relevance is, is quite, um, quite a challenge. Uh, still at this point. A lot of companies are turning to, uh, classical wellness or, or supplement ingredients and incorporating them.
Otherwise, you know, just looking for new studies on existing skincare ingredients. So I'm, I'm glad you shared that. And I have to say, Alex, um, you know, I, it might be a cliche expression, right? Looking backward helps us look forward. But I, I thank you for sharing your learnings. Um, over 10 [00:27:00] years with us, um, and for being my guest today on the Cosmo Factory Podcast.
Alexander: Thank you so much, Deanna. It's been great to, you know, be on this journey. With you over the last 10 years, uh, and I'm looking forward to the next 10.