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Welcome to The Admin Avenues Podcast!
In each episode, I’ll be chatting with inspiring Australian admin professionals, expert advisors, and a few surprise guests you won’t want to miss.
No matter where your admin career has taken you, this is your space to learn, grow, and connect with the people shaping the future of our profession.
Expect real stories, practical insights, and expert advice to help you thrive, whether you're just starting out or leading at the top.
We’re also here to celebrate the Australian admin community, because admins are at the heart of every successful business.
Let’s shape the future of admin in Australia, one conversation at a time.
🎧 Subscribe now and don’t miss a moment. New episodes coming soon!
Visit adminavenues.com and follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram @adminavenues
Track 1 sequence
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Candice 1: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome back to the Admin Avenues podcast. I'm your host, Candace Burningham, and today we're [00:01:00] doing things a little bit different because I'm joined by two incredible women who will both be speaking
Candice 3: it's
Candice 1: Avenues conferences. So Trinity James will be speaking in Adelaide on the Connected EA: How the Right Room Changes Your Career, and Alicia Fairclough will be launching the EA Salary Survey , which
Alicia: an
Candice 1: we're
Alicia: training
Candice 1: results, in Sydney
Alicia: that
Candice 1: And what I love
Alicia: and
Candice 1: although your sessions are different, they're actually talking
Alicia: on
Candice 1: the same thing, about building a career intentionally.
So I thought it'd be really cool if we could jump in all together.
Alicia: but
Candice 1: Alicia is joining us from London. Trinity's joining us from Perth. I'm in Sydney. So,
Alicia: Good afternoon, good evening, and good night.
Candice 1: good good night. Thank you very much.
Alicia: understand
Candice 1: I'm going to start with you,
Alicia: via
Candice 1: No, before I do that, I want to say that you're both representing EA How So How always Australian APAC audience. but now [00:02:00] real big
focus on being
able bring live
Trinity: capacity
Candice 1: first I wanna start with that, because there's so incredible events that have been going on, I
wanna about that and of speakers
and things.
So let's just
do
Alicia: yeah, let's
give that to Trinity because bringing Trinity on year has been the best. So let's let her take that one
Trinity: Oh, amazing. Oh, look, I am just so excited to have been able to bring this to APAC. Like, Alicia and I been working together for probably three or four years before, I took the leap, and we've expanded into APAC here. And, EA How I just honestly believe in this cause, like, so deep. if I had this when I was starting out EA, the the pain that I would've avoided my career, that I easily, the pitfalls I would've avoided are real.
And I think that, you know, a lot of people say that about a lot of programs, but How To really a need, and Alicia always describes it as something that she created because it was scratching her own [00:03:00] itch, and is the definition of that. so I'm so excited to support it. And, like, it is huge in the UK and the USA, but as you know, here in APAC, it is different.
We're special here. I mean, the culture different. It is. The culture's different. It's not just that the time is different, although thank God for not having to get up at 2:00 AM to actually be able to ask our questions live during webinars.
Like, I am here for that.
But yeah, the culture's different. The role is different. Like, you know, chief of staff isn't such a big thing here. Like, people slap EA, , title on anything over here. It- it's quite a different market. So I that we can actually bring people that get that market to this time zone, and we're able to give that extra level specit- specificity. Oh my goodness, I really stumbled over that one. I have even, shouldn't even shot for it. Someone, bail me out.
Candice 1: Yeah, hard word
Alicia: There's also just, there's enormous
Candice 1: but
Alicia: talent, talent, EA and we're now really [00:04:00] fortunate we're able to tap into that thanks to
Candice 1: is
Alicia: Trinity being able to reach out to those people, and we're able to shine a light because, you know, traditionally so many of our presenters have been wonderful, from the US and the UK, and been because zones and
Trinity: for that
Alicia: I'm connected.
So it's really wonderful to be able to tap into an enormous amount of APEC talent.
Trinity: I like
Alicia: the the people in the UK and the people in the US really appreciate and or staying night, whatever they wanna do, have access to this amazing talent from Australia, New Zealand, and Who knows where else we'll be able to get people from?
Trinity: Mm-hmm.
Alicia: correspondence a
Candice 1: them
back have But there's [00:05:00] just
Alicia: accessible
Candice 1: Yeah
Alicia: of
Candice 1: zone ones, for me, because, I am a night owl. I'm not an early person and there's something at, like, 5:00 in the morning, I'm immediately no.
Immediately no. so if you had to describe the admin profession in
Alicia: my
Trinity: Uh, well, me, the really comes to mind is expanding. and the reason say that because, I, my own career in admin,
um,
Alicia: and the profession that I entered then the
Trinity: like, they're managing projects. they're responsible for implementing tech through the entire
Candice 1: in Australia
Trinity: influencing culture is another one that has just absolutely really expanded in scope. It's
Candice 1: a
Trinity: more than just protecting exec right now. So I and perhaps even the perceptions of what the role is
Alicia: I would agree absolutely
with what Trinity said, expansion. And so my word [00:06:00] following that would be misunderstood. I think we're having a little bit of an identity crisis. I think we're having our own identity crisis. I think the market and the employers are not really understanding what to do with us at the moment because there's been so much change and there's been so much expansion, and everything is happening so quickly.
There's a lot of confusion, and there's a lot of misunderstanding about where we fit, and I'm optimistic about it. I think we'll find our place, and I think employers will figure out where we fit, and I actually think executive support, I genuinely believe it's becoming more valuable than ever.
and I have loads of reasons why I believe that. But I think right now, I do we have a little bit of an
identity crisis at the moment
Trinity: tears Like this
and
Candice 1: I agree. But I also
Trinity: gets
to And can I can
Candice 1: secretaries into professionals.
Alicia: people were panicking, you know, what
is the fax
machine gonna mean for the office? What is
word processing going to mean for the office? When email came in, there were headlines saying that executives wouldn't need [00:07:00] assistants because everyone could just instantly send a message. You didn't need letterhead and typewriters and all of that.
All email did
Candice 1: Yeah
Alicia: the influx of information, and so it wasn't about managing the correspondence, it was about managing all of it. And so it wasn't just about typing the letter and posting it, it was about managing all of that coming in. Smartphones, we had similar thing. People were like, "Well, every executive has their calendar and their inbox in their pocket now.
Why do
Candice 1: brought it some
Alicia: That's the point. The fact that they are reachable and they are to everyone means that communication just exploded, and course needed somebody
Candice 1: it's the worst. I was just saying to Trinity Alicia before we came on live that if I was a social media. I'd just be like, "Nah, it's done." You would never see a LinkedIn post again. I'm in a complete world of overwhelm at the moment from emails. Like, this is why I don't do Slack, because if I had Slack on top of [00:08:00] these emails, I can't stand it. I can't stand looking at my inbox and just seeing never gets smaller. It's just constantly... And I used to think, "Oh, that won't happen when
I'm running my business," but it is. I used to think I was just CC'd in everything, and that's why it was. That's so cute, isn't it?
Alicia: On the bright side, at least people are wanting to get
Trinity: look Candace I saying this is to
Alicia: you're in demand
It was.
Candice 1: Yes, right? It's better to have a full inbox than being like, doo-doo-doo. we've all heard people saying, "Just work hard and you'll get noticed." Dumb. I've never thought that was true. I remember I started one of my, probably my third EA job. It was at an investment bank, and remember one of the EAs pulling me aside and saying, "Just because you stay later than me does not mean you work harder than me."
And I was like...
Alicia: never not And
Candice 1: I don't back try
Alicia: the hard yards
Candice 1: usually have city." Like, I'm going for dinner or [00:09:00] I'm doing so I stay at desk until I'm out. I'm young.
I'm in young 20s, I don't go home.
Alicia: that. resulted actual nervous breakdown Yeah
think of
Candice 1: with know, what think? Do that
Alicia: bit of a people and wanted to the
you go first
Trinity: All right. Um,
wanna start by that why I love talking you because you and I are so the opposite like this. bold. say, I never thought that, you know, you just do stuff behind the scenes, get noticed." I did. I thought that, okay?
Genuinely. I don't know. Maybe I'm just
naive, But
honestly, I spent years being the person behind the scenes, just reliable to everything, replying to that 10:30 AM just quickly, always making things happen. I thought that that was me, being valuable, and one day that's gonna be recognized because I'm indispensable now, right?
No. What it ended up being, without oversharing, was I ended up getting, calls at 8:30 PM from the CEO [00:10:00] of the business with the CFO on conference call because there was no sugar. There was no sugar in the office for their meeting that night, and so they had to have black coffee with no sugar.
Candice 1: data "
Trinity: Oh my God." I was almost is 23-year-old me, but that is what working hard
Candice 1: think
Trinity: you I, say that, hand on my heart. So I think that one of the most important shifts that I made in my own career really did come through building better relationships.
so like I've never been someone that could fully advocate for myself. It's just not in my skillset. I love you for that, Candace. I wish I was more like you. I'm learning to be more like you, but it's not my state, right? So I don't know. It's just the way I was raised. I don't know. I don't know
what it
is.
Everyone's got their different skillsets.
Candice 1: Yep
Alicia: administrative
Candice 1: sometimes people
like
Alicia: on
we've learned hard think
Trinity: going back This is showing my age
Candice 1: they're to be
Trinity: But you [00:11:00] do have to protect your space, otherwise you're not valuable. Like, being avail- available is not the same as being valuable, and that's something that I really
did have to learn
Candice 1: And Astrid, I'm like now. I was this I I was
Alicia: to talk it
Candice 1: yeah
Alicia: was normal that I
Candice 1: and lot
I and
Trinity: doesn't it?
it's
Candice 1: billionaire I'd just
Alicia: the idea of
Trinity: in
Alicia: often I, I think
Candice 1: like Oh
Alicia: really valuable, and
Candice 1: was that
Alicia: say that it, I think
Candice 1: stay to and make
Alicia: in
Candice 1: because I out something just my going
Alicia: publicly
in an
from a lack of boundaries.
I a lot high pay women
Candice 1: It stuck me
Alicia: went things.
Candice 1: you do you you think
Alicia: were pleaser, you do best in the workplace and all of that [00:12:00] stuff, and it can take you to a really dangerous place. so, the caveat being that you have to know your boundaries, and you have to be able to implement them.
But I think hard work is really important, but I think visibility is really important. And so I never really understood how to talk about my achievements, and I think as a result, I was really taken advantage of. When I look back at some of the things that happened in my career, and I now understand how valuable I was, but I didn't then.
I, I really allowed, people I worked with to convince me that I wasn't important because it benefited them, because it was cheap, right? I wouldn't ask for a salary increase 'cause I didn't think I deserved one.
And looking back, I know that that's absolutely not true, and if I could coach young people, I think about what I would want, my niece to know when she goes into the workplace.
It's not about greed, and it's not about being unreasonable. It's about understanding your value and what you mean to that organization
and getting what [00:13:00] you're worth
and advocating for yourself.
Candice 1: Mm-hmm.
But does that come later? does that
come
with age and experience?
Alicia: I think it does. In my case, it only came with age and experience, but I think, I, I certainly was never in a situation where I had a mentor. Coaching wasn't thing that then, I mean, it might have been for some people. It certainly
Trinity: there is experience Like particularly the
Alicia: And so I do that can
Trinity: personality to early
Alicia: by what the way I don't
Candice 1: agree. And also we didn't have communities like EAHAD too, where you can just jump in and be like, "Is this normal? Is anyone else I this Like, just with
Alicia: yes
Candice 1: if you
Alicia: do
Candice 1: a colleague you certainly didn't have community like we
in my 20s
Alicia: no [00:14:00] about if it
Candice 1: of vodka
Trinity: speaks volumes is
Alicia: my and feeling teary about
Trinity: of
Alicia: and would never articulate that to anyone.
And it wasn't until years later that I realized that's not normal, you know? You shouldn't be feeling like that going to work, and that you, are valuable and you do have a place there, and you need to learn how to be able to, like, be in that
Trinity: What you're sharing Alicia, though, like I don't think that that an uncommon in EA role, it is an
Alicia: think we
Trinity: type. And this was really raised me on,
Alicia: passing
Yeah
those
Trinity: yeah, yeah, stop it.
Candice 1: and be like like
Alicia: correct.
Trinity: But anyway, so the guy that was running it was obviously not very good [00:15:00] at it because he really segregated stand in the, um, in the
Candice 1: Yeah this not like when was
Alicia: one to
Trinity: the only one in the
Candice 1: honestly l a
Trinity: that
Alicia: Cool
Trinity: Like Yeah , Suddenly
Alicia: stomach
Trinity: a lot
Alicia: was
Trinity: conversational
Alicia: They do
you run
important you to
Candice 1: your gross great aunt come try give you she had whiskers,
Alicia: hope understand that, there will always be
Candice 1: And come and give you a big smack one on the cheek, and you'd just be like, "Argh." Whereas now the parents are like, "No,
if you don't wanna kiss anyone, you don't have to do it. You didn't have to sit on Uncle Ron's lap," or, "You didn't have to... [00:16:00] You had to be polite." And they're taught, "No, your life, your boundaries."
I'm like, good on you. Good on you, better parents . Where were my parents?
West Coast Coolers in the backyard. reference
Alicia: Dad loves a West Coast Cooler. I bought
Candice 1: one slide
Alicia: Coast Coolers for Christmas. We love
Candice 1: Did you?
Alicia: I did. You know you can still get them.
Candice 1: Oh, stop it. Stop it. We might have to have one while you're out just for old times sakes.
Alicia: Exactly
Candice 1: All
right, so do you think admins underestimate their own value, dealt it
Alicia: Nothing further to add.
Candice 1: talk me through that.
Obviously, you've just come firsthand face plant into data telling you this
Alicia: I mean, my personal experience from what I said previously shows me that I certainly underestimated my own value, but I see it every day, and I think that they really...
I, I hope we're getting better at it and I hope we're getting better at
educating administrative professionals about the
value they bring.
But organizations do not run on
their own, and [00:17:00] there are, unfortunately, people invested in keeping you in your place and making you
think you're not valuable. I had a CEO, a say to me in front of people, certain people in the leadership team, he said, "The reality is some people are more valuable in this organization than others, and we just don't like to talk about it."
And he looked directly at me, and he was making it very clear that the technical people, as far as he was concerned, the engineers, the product, people were the valuable people in the the were not the ones I don't need to talk about where career went, but it didn't go well.
But at the time, like, way to try and, you know, keep you And What now know hindsight
Trinity: team
Alicia: and that
Trinity: have to shine the
Alicia: keeping in your And fortunately, organizations are like that. I have also worked with
Trinity: comfortable yeah
Alicia: and appreciative and for me and wanted to see me grow in that role [00:18:00] alongside
Candice 1: Yeah
Alicia: the and that taught
a lot
Trinity: for taking seconds of space
Alicia: The know and and the
Candice 1: boundaries you know
Alicia: start were it, all along. So I do
Candice 1: when would and and a kiss and
Alicia: I they
Candice 1: she'd
Trinity: the in
Candice 1: it
Alicia: looking at to valuable his
Trinity: right? so you
Alicia: I in
Trinity: for your organization.[00:19:00]
Alicia: you place not all
Trinity: So
Alicia: supportive advocated
Trinity: to
Alicia: business
what me
Trinity: without apologizing up 12
Alicia: about businesses how they
this get this to
don't to
the
in and
Candice 1: admins about our salaries. We were worried, like, you're not allowed to talk about money. it's like, what do you mean you don't?
Even Alicia and I, when we were talking about our salaries in Australia, like, "I can't believe you were on
Alicia: an organization you're only one most EA
Candice 1: but we were
Alicia: were the of [00:20:00] like I remember the first time somebody who was a peer just asked me how much I was earning, and I was really taken aback. I thought it was really rude, and I was kinda like, " Oh." and she was just like, " Why wouldn't we talk about what we're earning?" She was like, "This is how much I'm earning. What are you earning?"
And not in the same organization. It w- it wasn't a breach of confidentiality or anything like that. And it, but it really showed me, like, you can't be what you can't see. If you don't know ... If you're making, say, $50,000 and feel like you're doing okay, but you're just not sure, and you aren't speaking to other people, how would you know that there are EAs in the same city as you making $150,000?
Why would you know it you have to be having those conversations Yeah Let's
Yeah
And that's why the report... I know we will get to that, but that's why the report is so important
someone And I'm
to active LinkedIn
No I don't. [00:21:00] I
Trinity: Can I other that would you construction you would
Alicia: how much they know about that. I mean, AI every day, people that I know who been AI course possible, have watched every LinkedIn Learning video, have watched every YouTube video, have attended every webinar, are still feeling like they're behind and asking me what course they can do next.
I'm like, "You are leading the way. You are in the 1% of people who are so far ahead of this technology." It's not technology. I think they really underestimate the power of network and community, and I say that because your peers and this is global, this is not just about being part of the Australian or the Sydney or the Brisbane and/or the Melbourne admin community or anything like that.
But your network, I know it's a cringe old saying, your network is your net worth, but your network is so incredibly valuable for so many reasons. So the first thing that comes to mind is when I started EA How To, I really wanted a place online where I could go and say, " spreadsheet is [00:22:00] doing my head in.
I can't formula work. I understand why. I'm ready throw my laptop out window," and have a dozen people jump try to help me. And so I wanted that kind
th
Trinity: just say for most roles, be Like, you think about, know, if you're working in guys the yard, like, know, they have 100 people
Candice 1: when
back um,
Alicia: EA,
have and you're, especially if you're in where
either the only EA or maybe there's
other one, I was always the senior
Candice 1: just
Alicia: usually four or five direct reports who like front
Candice 1: and you just didn't
Alicia: something that.
But I
didn't have anyone that I could go and ask, and you're certainly not gonna go to CEO and ask them.
And so
I wanted that place and, and we have that place now and we have loads of
them But also, I know you don't like Slack, I absolutely love Slack, but the connections that I see in there, the number of people who have just casually mentioned to me, "Oh yeah, I got a
job through your Slack channel."
And I was like, "What? What do you mean you [00:23:00] got a job through
my Slack channel?" And they said, "Oh, well, you know, Sarah and I were having a chat about that AI topic that you posted and we decided to jump on a call and then she told me that there was a job opening at that place and she referred me in and I ended up getting the job."
I have heard that same story no less than seven times in the last 12 months, and they're only the ones that tell me. And
I, I wish everybody would tell me because blows my mind when I hear that. but these are the people that are
going to refer you in. face it, people hire and refer
people that they like and that they're familiar with.
And
so if you're just an active member of the
community, I have recruiters come to me all
the time saying, "Oh, you might know like, "I know lots of people." But the ones that spring mind are the people who are just always They're commenting on the post, They're
sharing the helpful template,
they're asking smart questions at the
webinar. And
you remember those people and other people remember those people.
And so when opportunities do come up, more often than not, people are referred
in for jobs.
[00:24:00] there are a lot of jobs out there that are never advertised because they're filled by people who are referred in.
And so you are really missing out if you're not being an
active community member and a participant~ Oh, I ~
~think we've, completely lost you. We've got no sound, Candice ~
Trinity: ~shift in ~
~happening Alyssa ~And the getting
Alicia: really interesting now that we've got the three years of data, and this is only for the US, we haven't looked at Australia yet. But, titles partner in it have
risen by
quite a lot. So the first year we did the survey, only 1% of job titles had the
word partner in it, and it went up to 1.68% in 2025, and now it's
3.19% in
2026, mostly because of executive business partner. That's the emerging
title
Alicia: And, the assistant title didn't decline
at all. It's been consistent that every year about 60% of people
have the
Trinity: job
Alicia: senior executive
assistant.
Trinity: know shift Yeah, there's definitely a, a titles
R, I think you're right. people that are not
EAs
Alicia: Yeah,
it'll be interesting to see what that means
in Australia [00:25:00] Yeah. we haven't looked at Australia
yet. We've just gotta hurry up and get this one first
Trinity: titles are
Alicia: executive assistant
Trinity: Even the people that I'm coaching, like, you they they're trying to within their
organization and, they should have
those kind of but the organization doesn't recognize them, so they're still being completely underpaid
as a role that doesn't even make sense anymore.
Like, you wouldn't
rehire
listing that job description what they're
wouldn't be able
assistant on that task list of what they're
doing day
to day, but they still won't re-title the thing.
Alicia: The,~ the staticky noise is gone.~
Candice 3: ~Is it?~
Alicia: ~Yeah, you're back. Uh, it's all normal now~
Candice 3: ~okay. I don't know what the hell happened there. okay. So I was just gonna give my little insight. ~so I was in conversations with some EAs who work at a very, very well-known tech company, who we all use their product, and when they join the company and to this day, they have never been trained on their product. So let's say... And it's not them, but let's say it was Canva. They got a job at Canva and were never trained in Canva
Trinity: path you
Candice 3: It's just like, what the hell? How can you possibly go out and be an advocate for this product if you [00:26:00] haven't trained the people who would be your biggest advocates? it's just, it blew my mind. I'm like, "You've never had training in the product or the company that you
work for They're like,
"Nope."
Alicia: what you're talking about too.
Trinity: for To
Candice 3: Anyway, we shall not name names. but let's Jump into the goody stuff. So Trinity, your keynote talks about the right room. and Alicia, your research looks at, How people are progressing in their careers. But Trinity, do you think those two are connected? And, tell me about
being in the right room
Trinity: Oh, absolutely. I, look, I, I think the best way I could describe it is that the right room gives you a bigger map. I mean, you start seeing different titles, different salaries, like Alicia
mentioned,
different career paths,
and different,
even ways of
working.
and suddenly the future
contains,
way more than the role directly above
yours in
the organizational chart
actually has.
Um, and that's so important for EA progression because my goodness, that career isn't clear at the best of times. [00:27:00]
But, like being
in those
right professional circles, it certainly influenced my career.
like I moved from admin into learning and development, into project work,
and then I moved into organizational leadership and then
career coaching, and
and
I mean, like that's not a neat ladder. I mean it's basically a fire escape. That's not a ladder.
Candice 3: In heels.
Trinity: that's it, and
a pencil skirt.
But each move, like it really was from being in the right room because you can see a broader possibility, better alignment, developing new
skills, building
relationships, helping people that you're
actually passionate about supporting, networking with people who could see where my experience might translate.
So
yeah, the
rooms that you're in really do shape what you believe you're qualified to do,
and it also
gives us language. And this is something that both you and Alicia
have touched on during this conversation. Because
you might hear someone describe, stakeholder management [00:28:00] or strategic operations, and you know, they sound like, such pie in the sky words.
Yeah, that's right. Exactly. but it's not until you're actually working and speaking and networking with people that you realize that you've actually been doing that for years. And once you can name it, you can present it differently in an interview or a performance review or a salary conversation,
and things start moving
Candice 3: Yeah.
Tell me,
Alicia: um, a few years ago,
Candice 3: Yeah?
Alicia: sorry.
Candice 3: No, I was gonna just say to you to give me an example of something. This might be it
Alicia: Yeah. So, if I go way back to, I wanna say, late
20s, I remember the first time that I was invited into a project, and I was invited
into this particular project because I did have very specific knowledge.
I was working In local government,
and it, the project was to digitize all of our
forms.
So anyone who knows anything about government, it certainly used to be we had
literally thousands of paper [00:29:00] forms for all different things. And
because I was in such a customer-facing role and I was processing permits and applications and doing the admin side of that, when the government decided that they were going to start digitizing this process,
they needed me because
they also n- they needed to know
where to start, they needed
to know what the most simple
form we had was to test it,
they needed to know what the most high
volume form
was, and nobody else had
that kind of information. And it was the first time that,
I was like, "Oh, I'm actually really useful to this
process." and
somebody who was working in the finance department at the
time pulled me aside, and she gave me some
really good advice. She said No, matter what, you want your name on this project. This is gonna be really valuable to you later. And I didn't really know why at
the time. I thought, I'm not gonna be doing forms. I'm not gonna be a project manager. Like, I didn't understand why, and I wasn't recognized at
the time. I remember one of the people leading it barely acknowledged my existence at the time,
and all good. When I moved on, it
[00:30:00] became a metric that I was really proud of, that I could talk about in interviews and said that, you know, I was, crucial to digitizing the first 250 forms in that government organization in Sydney, and And suddenly I knew the process and I knew the language of project management, and I knew where I fit into that cog in the wheel that made all of that happen.
And what a thing to be able to talk about at your interviews when they say, "Well, what impact did you have?" And I can talk about literally being a, a crucial part of digitizing this government process. so that would be a really early example of just being in a room where I felt like I had no business being in there, but somebody pulling me aside and going, "You want your name on this and you wanna be involved,
and just sit and listen and learn and get involved."
And it was absolutely true. The other one was, I've often said that the most transformative thing I ever did was working on cruise ships, and it was because, I'm gonna show my age here when I
say I grew up. [00:31:00] having no clue what I wanted to do when I grew up.
So I had absolutely no idea, which is how I ended up with two teaching degrees even though I did not wanna be a teacher.
It was like women my age either
went into teaching or nursing if we didn't know what to do, and it was like, "Would you prefer kids or sick people?" And I went, "Kids." And I knew before I even finished those degrees that I did not wanna be a school teacher. but- showing my age, there was, no YouTube.
you didn't go and watch
videos about different careers. I literally did not know what different careers existed. I only knew What careers I had
seen in my very small town growing up
by the seaside in Australia. So if I
hadn't known someone, it's like, okay, well, I know a dentist exists. I don't wanna be a dentist.
I just Didn't know what was out there. And so when I went and worked on cruise ships, suddenly, I remember on the very first night in the crew bar, I met a guy who was from South Africa, and he was funding his six-month surfing in Hawaii by selling his photographs , and he was a photographer on [00:32:00] board, and he was doing gallery exhibitions, and it blew my tiny mind. I was like, "You can do that? Like, what?" And suddenly, I was living in a place that had,
nearly 4,000 crew from,
over 25 different countries who all had
these different jobs, and I was exposed to things that I had never, ever considered. I look at being part of an EA
way.
Trinity: first executive
Alicia: that it
Trinity: complex that nobody in
Alicia: digitizing
forms government, or they're working on projects like
implementing
then why that you can
do it too?
If you don't know that there are people making $200,000 year
then you think it's totally normal that you're making $50,000 a year even though you have the
same
title, and you definitely have those skills to
progress to 200,000. So you need to be member, a member of a community. you need to be
in the [00:33:00] right room
Candice 3: I could not agree more. I am gonna show my age now and say that when I was in year 12 or 11, when everybody start talking about careers, they had a book, like a Yellow Pages, and it had careers in it
And that's where you went, "Oh,
could I be this? Could I be this? Could I be this?"
Alicia: Starts with
Candice 3: trying to figure out what I'm gonna do
when I grow up, by the way.
Trinity: and that feeling doesn't
Alicia: same
Trinity: you get your assistant role. I
Alicia: know exists if
Trinity: there and you've got this massively role
the
Alicia: for
introducing and
Trinity: the emotional
Alicia: organization
Candice 3: But we were also told it was a stepping stone job.
What are you gonna do when you find your big girl pants after
being an EA?
Trinity: in
Alicia: And as far as misconceptions
Trinity: hours
Alicia: I one that I really dispel,
about paths. very
successful, lucrative career
Trinity: specific
that you
Alicia: of but
Trinity: levels [00:34:00] that to
Alicia: the door and run type job.
I know,
some people will use it that
Trinity: platform that's itself
It's
Candice 3: was, it was my career, and I bloody loved it, and I was very proud to call myself an executive assistant throughout my career. It was the best. So we just touched on a little bit of AI, so I wanna just... obviously it always steers into this conversation, so let's just go there obviously changing our profession.
Do you think it has made the community more important than ever? I know we touched on this? before, but like Trinity in community, are you seeing that it's helping people
learn faster?
Trinity: of course. absolutely. Through EA How To,
like, we're seeing on all of our webinars, our virtual summits, our Control Alt
Elite we're seeing how learning
when they share what they are testing. Like, one person who's
working
actively
Alicia: the
would love to
You can have [00:35:00] a
fulfilling
Trinity: very technical level privacy concern was,
Alicia: lots different things
Trinity: deep
everyone needs consider, right?
Alicia: get your
foot in
Trinity: currently launching at us.
like this confetti cannon at the moment. It's ridiculous. So community, people that are using it actively every
day in their role, that helps us learn faster, it helps us make better decisions,
it helps us, you know, focus on what is actually genuinely useful
Candice 3: Yeah. Alicia, the data side, are you seeing, are the numbers showing that it's becoming more valuable? I saw on a LinkedIn post recently that you said people using AI, are earning
20 something thousand dollars more
Alicia: Yeah. so to be clear,
this is from the US report. We're
doing that first because we're launching that report in San
Francisco in about two weeks. so that data comes specifically
from the US but, [00:36:00] EAs who use AI regularly
on average, earn $23,672
more than EAs who aren't using it and have no interest in using it. And obviously, we can't be certain about what's driving that gap. All we know from the data is that the gap exists and correlation is not causation. So we can't say that, using AI causes someone to earn more. But what we can
say is that AI fluency is becoming a career differentiator,
and that it seems like it's probably
associated
with a willingness to learn greater responsibility, higher earning potential, stronger career progression, all of those
things.
It's possible that EAs
who embrace
AI are
more likely to seek out higher value work, that they're, developing new skills to
position themselves in a
more strategic way. It's also possible that they already work in organizations that are embracing the technology. There's a lot of things to consider, but what we do know
is that almost [00:37:00] all EAs, it was only 2% of EAs who said that they're not using AI, and they have no interest in using
AI, and they
don't intend to.
So most assistants are very much using it
regularly, but there is a
gap in how people are using it, and there's a salary gap in
how people
are using it. We specifically
looked at actual tasks that people
use AI for,
you know, it's a given that a lot of people are using it for things like
writing email drafts for more complicated emails.
That's kind of a given. The ones that start actually moving the needle on salary are the people who are changing processes, and they're creating agents and custom GPTs, and they're embracing automation. There's a real gap, and it
seems to be mainly the more senior people who completed the survey who are doing that, and they
are earning more
Candice 3: Yeah. And without revealing all the stats from you're still, running through Australia as well because you've got the UK and the US releases before you come here, but were [00:38:00] there any trends or anything that genuinely surprised you that you can tell us a little
sneaky peeky?
Alicia: Not yet. I feel like we need to come and do another, pre-release podcast, so I genuinely haven't seen any of the Australian data yet because we're doing it in order of our in-person releases. something that I did post this morning, and that's because I'm literally writing the US report as we speak,
it's that certainly in the US, and we know that Australia does eventually tend to
follow suit with things that are happening in the US and the UK, it just doesn't
necessarily happen at the same pace.
But the executive business partner title is
on the rise. but what I will say is that the assistant title
Trinity: You didn't
Alicia: so consistently across all three of, had the word assistant in their title. So, whether that was executive assistant, administrative assistant, senior executive
assistant, the, the
word assistant is still there.
But there was quite a jump with having the word partner in their title [00:39:00]
Trinity: thing that
Alicia: 1.68% in
3.19%
So,
Trinity: the way that they describe
Alicia: and
much like
Trinity: operating at a more strategic using
Alicia: to assistant."
to executive assistant, we're in the middle that at moment.
We're
Trinity: scope creep you
their their
Alicia: more
Trinity: reflecting it also raise questions
Candice 3: Yeah. You know my
thoughts on that. and literally, I was in a argument with a bot the other day for Virgin Australia. I was trying to change my flight, and it
said, "Assistant," like assistant typing. And I went, you're not an assistant." and it said, "I am trying to assist you And I'm like, but you're not an assistant."
And we went into this loop of it trying to do this, and I was just like, "I'm just making my point. You're not an
assistant."
Alicia: Primus versus
the bot Taking on one bottle at a
time
Candice 3: Yep, one bot
at a time
You are not us.
So Trinity , Do you find like these findings line up with what you're hearing and [00:40:00] seeing in the, community chats and the,
Alicia: people
Candice 3: community every day?
Alicia: from
Trinity: Look, I think one
Alicia: in 2024 to
2025 to
Candice 3: Yes
Alicia: 2026
I think that um
Trinity: level like
Alicia: of seeing
Trinity: yet,
know, on their resume, title
Alicia: We're seeing
Trinity: I think that AI really
does bigger about how the profession is changing.
and look, honestly, these conversations are so
much easier when you are surrounded by people understand the role, who've got data on the role, and also,
yeah, just peers that are navigating the same changes, which is why AIOP and EA How To is
just so important be involved
Candice 3: Yep, I totally agree with that. And now we're gonna move on to the, tricky, tough topic. Let's talk about salary. Why do you think admins still find it hard To talk about salary? Why do You think that. they find it [00:41:00] uncomfortable, And that they shouldn't be asking for what they
want? Alicia?
Alicia: We've been conditioned To be polite
and
nice, and to be grateful to be in the room, and to be grateful to have a job at all. We've
been
raised that way, and it's a really tough thing to break understanding that
you're not
being rude, you're not being ungrateful.
We are grateful to have a job. We just wanna make sure that we're being compensated
for it appropriately.
But, again, I think it was generational. I think our entire generation, we were entering the
full-time workforce and starting our careers during the global financial crisis, and we were very much told, "Just
be glad you're here. be glad you've even got a job." And we are. We are.
always grateful that we have
a job.
But now we need to start having those real conversations that
also it's a female thing.
women particularly have been conditioned to
not talk about it because it's rude, it's crass.
Men on golf courses have been talking about
money and talking about salary forever, and we haven't had those same, cultural experience.
but that [00:42:00] is absolutely
changing. We might not be doing it necessarily on a golf course,
though sometimes we are, but we're having those conversations now
Candice 3: Yeah. And I think that we didn't have the conversations. We weren't told to Well, I didn't know about the, I didn't even know salary. was negotiated. I just thought you got told
it.
Alicia: like,
"Oh, that's what they told me they're paying me, so
that's
Candice 3: that's the cost of a stamp. That's what your salary? is.
I And
would've thought
Alicia: a lot of, yeah, to be fair, a lot of the positions that have been more traditionally dominated by women haven't been very negotiable. Like, we've been in roles where if you were a teacher or a nurse or you worked in government, you're in a salary band and it's not negotiable. It just, that's your salary band and it is what it is.
And there are still obviously people who work in industries where salary bands are a
thing, but your salary is very much negotiable and should be negotiated. And something that, again, I don't know if this is true for Australia yet because I haven't
checked, but, whilst salaries in the US and the UK have increased, they haven't kept up with inflation. And so that's why also salary [00:43:00] negotiations are really important because the salaries themselves, they go up a little bit over time, but, we're seeing that kind of one, 1.5% increase. But if
you're talking about 3% inflation, then your purchasing power is actually down. So you have to be having
those conversations and being commercially aware and just being aware of
what's happening in the world.
and that is something that is, very reasonable to bring up
in a salary negotiation,
being able to talk
about inflation, knowing what inflation has been over the last 12 months to say, "So technically you're paying me less right now than
you were when I started two years ago." And
being able to articulate
that, being able to put that as part of building a case for a salary
increase is really
important because you can't just go in and be like, "I
want more money.
It's not fair."
Candice 3: Yeah.
Alicia: have to be able to build a case
Candice 3: Yeah. And you need to have something that you can benchmark against, like a
Alicia: Absolutely.
Candice 3: E-salary report that you can
say,
Alicia: Yeah.
Candice 3: is the data."
Alicia: Yeah, and we keep talking about the report, but you've got to use the report in context. There's a
reason the report is so [00:44:00] big, and we have tense discussions every year about making it short. I'm always wanting to make it shorter. Yvette's always wanting to include everything, and we're always trying to find the right balance.
Trinity: for me and the thing
Alicia: possibly
Trinity: separating emotion of a salary from evidence
Alicia: title. got look at your age. You've got to look at your location. You've got to look at your
You've got to look at
where you're performing in of that
all of these things contribute
building a for a salary increase. It is not a matter
of emailing a copy of the report and being like, "Here,
it says that
Trinity: an
in
Alicia: this you're only paying me
Trinity: even know
Alicia: need be able
your value. to visibility that Trinity and
Trinity: anyone anyone maybe
Alicia: hard and quiet. You've got visible, you've to be
be do you bring
Candice 3: Mm-hmm. And Trinity, are you finding this is more helpful to be speaking about these kind of group discussions, [00:45:00] group forums where people can, openly talk salaries, benchmarking, negotiations, how to get the courage up if you're feeling a little bit tense about what... how to bring
it up in a interview?
or a review,
or
Trinity: Yeah, so I think that the
that really helped
Alicia: we
Trinity: like, the
So Alicia,
Alicia: just look at your You've to industry
amongst all and
to case
And
you."
Trinity: as admin
Alicia: average is and
Trinity: didn't that my
Alicia: an increase You to to talk about It comes back that
Trinity: that
Alicia: I
Trinity: not upset not outshine and then one
Alicia: be to be got
Trinity: good
Alicia: That's exactly what [00:46:00] we think is gonna happen. They're gonna come and be like, "Trinity, you're a star. Thank you so much for all your hard work over the years. We'd like
to reward you with more money," which has literally never happened ever
Trinity: I know, it sounds stupid when you say it like that, but that's what I
thought.
Alicia: but it's
true. We all I thought
Trinity: right?
Candice 3: We
did.
Trinity: that's how I came up, and I think that it's really...
Oh, I love the work around the salary survey for exactly this reason, because we're suddenly, we're not dealing with the emotion of, "Please, God, what can I do to earn more money here and make them happy enough that they'll come and offer me something that deserves the emotional labor that
I'm doing here alone?" we're
talking about, you know, what has changed in the role? What are the benchmarks? Like, what outcomes am I responsible for that I wasn't before? What is
the market paying? what value am I creating in this organization? the salary survey really helps us with that, but I think that community is really important there as well because that's
when we start to realize that we're not unreasonable for wanting our pay to reflect our contribution to this [00:47:00] organization, and this conversation is
something needs to be had
Alicia: And nothing will boost your confidence more than seeing the success stories.
So when you're in the Slack community and somebody says, "Oh my goodness, I advocated for myself. I went and I was brave, and I had the conversation even though I wanted to be sick beforehand, and I came out with a 14% salary increase," nothing will give you the boost you need like seeing other people's success.
And without community, you simply don't have access to that kind of
information and that kind of insight. Sharing tips on how you did it, so somebody will post and say, "I got a 14% increase," and
half a dozen people will jump in and say, "What did you say?" Like, Can you show me an example of the-- Like, did you put together a deck or was it just a conversation?"
Like, " How did you do it?" Did you send an email?" And, I find that fascinating. I find it so interesting, hearing Did you wait for your review or
did you bring it up in advance of your review?" previously, we just never had access to that kind of information. We didn't-- I literally
wouldn't have known how to [00:48:00] have the
actual conversation.
Like,
do I schedule an appointment? do I send an email? Do I write them a letter? Do I send a carrier pigeon with a request? I don't know what to do. Do I have to wait until my performance review? Do I have to wait and they give me the review, and then because the review's good, I then go and say, Okay, so now you need to pay me more," or is that too late because they've already done the reviews?
Like, you don't know this stuff unless you're
having these conversations with people and finding out how it's
Trinity: And
Alicia: organizations. I mentioned earlier that there are going be people in your career who are invested in keeping you in your place,
they're invested in
Trinity: wait until
Alicia: information.
And so when
you find out, oh,
this isn't normal. At other organizations,
EAs doing and Z, and they're having these
Trinity: sharing
Alicia: bulbs start going And you know what? You can't change every organization. report
about negotiating salary, it's about knowing possible So you
might be somewhere where they're really keeping you in box And they've got no
you more. Cool. Now you know what's possible if you go
Candice 3: Yep. And what I love about the EA How To [00:49:00] community is, and I've been a member for many years now, is they actually cheer you on. They're genuinely happy when you get a win. They're just like, "Yes, queen." It's just they're so happy. No one's like, " w- why do you get that? Everyone is just happy.
They're happy to see other
people winning in life
Alicia: It's built on a philosophy of, a rising tide, all of that sort of stuff, you know, that we genuinely believe that when one person does better, it benefits all of us, and that your success is our success and vice versa. So we all benefit from that. No one benefits from keeping
anyone down
Trinity: I
Alicia: Because
Candice 3: This
Alicia: to and
Trinity: I before or
Alicia: are X Y
conversations off The isn't just
what's [00:50:00] elsewhere
a interest in paying
Candice 3: Love that
Trinity: So generous. and I think, yeah, a rising tide really does lift all ships, and it's a beautiful community for all that
Candice 3: Yeah. She is So
inspiring, her career. she could do anything with her 50 million degrees. and yet she chooses to stay in admin 'cause she bloody loves it. she's like, "This is
the career for me. Love it."
Alicia: And it's also a
Trinity: reasons
ambitious person
Alicia: the biggest
Trinity: every step
EA to training
Alicia: I think
Trinity: experience
Alicia: by that.
Trinity: outside
Alicia: not needing an are from
people who never would've had one anyway. It's like, " Babe, no one was offering you one Don't worry about it Like, we don't
need your LinkedIn
Trinity: Like sometimes
Candice 3: Oh.
Alicia: Most people don't have an assistant. That's okay.
Trinity: around influence
Candice 3: trolls over the
years
Trinity: it's [00:51:00] autonomy
work
Alicia: with
and executives at
Trinity: fits the rest of to decide moving forward looks
Candice 3: Yep. Amen to that. So I know we're cutting it in on time, and I know you've both got things to do, so I just wanna ask a couple of quick last questions if you're okay for it. What's one myth about career progression that you'd love to bust?
Trinity?
Trinity: Oh, look, I really think that, the career ladder idea is one that
I wanna bust
for so
my own career, I'm
Alicia: of those
Trinity: Like
Alicia: the misconception
Trinity: followed single along the ladder. I mean, work national
Alicia: and
Trinity: every really built on the last one, even
Alicia: I'm encouraged
Trinity: and I would Love
Alicia: about executive assistant
assistant it's[00:52:00]
Trinity: it's around flexibility, around
it's around having
Alicia: assistants
that
Trinity: that
around your life. You get what like,
and I would love for that career progression myth to be busted.
You get to decide
Alicia: Yeah. I want them to understand progression
doesn't mean leaving. progression doesn't mean not being an EA anymore. There are so many
things you get to define what success looks like for you, and that it doesn't mean going and becoming a chief of staff, which is a totally different
job, and
one that is also
quite hard to break into, not many
of them available, a lot of them being made redundant.
Like, I'm not saying no one can go and do it.
You certainly can if you want to, but I'm really tired of the idea
that that's what progression looks like.
You can go into operations. You could go into a different part of the business, but you can also have a really great, fulfilling, successful, lucrative career as an executive
assistant. And I've watched EAs who [00:53:00] have done the climbing the ladder in terms of salary, but I've also watched people say, " You know what? At this time of my life,
I'm, valuing flexibility. I'm valuing, the ability to spend more time with my children or to not be stressed and woken up at three o'clock in the morning because, have an executive on the other side of the world who, can't figure out how to book a flight," or whatever that is.
And so just what does career progression look like for you? What does it mean to you? And it, certainly doesn't mean having to leave being an EA.
Candice 3: Yep
Alicia: It might be
I'm really passionate about, going to an industry that you're really interested in and that you enjoy. once you're in a position where you have a job, it-- You know, we always talk about the fact that it's always easier to get a job while you've got a job. And so when you're in a position that you actually have a job that you're not desperate to leave, it's the best time to start looking around and look for things that you want, not need. Because if you don't get it, it's no skin off your nose, so you can go and do the interviews and have those conversations
and While you're there, ask for way more money than you think you should [00:54:00] be because you know what? If they say no, it doesn't matter, you've got a job. And so if they say yes, amazing. But maybe you wanna go and work for a
not-for-profit that you're really passionate about. Maybe there's a charity
that you're particularly interested in and invested in that you want to see succeed, and you can bring all of those corporate skills to that.
Or maybe
you can bring all of your corporate skills to
a, fun startup that needs somebody
to build from the ground up. I mean, that
is something that I love doing. There's just so many different ways to go
Trinity: have
Candice 3: out my next question, so I'm, gonna take that one out because it's exactly what-- you just covered So you're already
Trinity: To
Candice 3: it. but, what I love about
Trinity: It's as an
Candice 3: what you're gonna be talking about at the
Trinity: in and
the steps much and
Candice 3: melds
Trinity: that
so
Candice 3: and get better in our lives, in our careers,
Trinity: EA
Candice 3: Avenue's, socials today, it's Wor- International World Best
Trinity: really
Candice 3: like that, and we [00:55:00] made a thing about work
from admins, that I've worked with, that we've stayed friends forever. Like, it are meeting in communities,
Trinity: zone
Candice 3: the video wrap-up of that, Alicia, dying. FOMO,
I hate missing out when I see admins getting together like that just looks so amazing.
We're gonna have to ramp it
up in Australia when
you're out here.
But, um,
I love that this is all
it all comes together with it all. Like
be a bit different the context of it is
Trinity: shouldn't have
Candice 3: that creates opportunities, and Alicia, you'll be helping people understand the market a bit better, value navigate salary conversations, and prepare for what's next for the profession, through this data.
So if you're joining us in Adelaide, you're gonna hear from Trinity on her keynote, The Connected EA: how the Right Room Changes Your [00:56:00] Career. And if you're attending in Sydney and Brisbane, you're gonna be hearing from Alicia talking about the results from salary report for Australia. So they'll be launching in Sydney, and we're going to rehash the data in Brisbane and throw in a bit of extra info that we might discover in Sydney that we're like, "Ooh, yes, let's bring that up there too."
Not only that-
you're also both gonna be coming to the AOP Awards, which will be amazing. You'll get to see how the APAC-- well, the Australia... Uh, we never know, we might ask some people from APAC fly in for it
party and celebrate this incredible profession. So thank you both
so much for joining me today. I can't wait to see you both what feels like
weeks.
months, but gonna feel like weeks.
Alicia: outside of
Candice 3: Yes, it's gonna be so good to finally get you into Australia, and people can actually meet you in the flesh. So she does exist. She's real. I've met her. I've met her. I can attest she's not AI.
Candice 1: EA
Alicia: They can meet me and say what everyone else says, which is, "You're way shorter than I realized."
Candice 1: the national
Alicia: Every time somebody meets [00:57:00] me, they're like, " You're so much shorter than I realized."
Candice 3: Ruth Kyler, I
Alicia: them
Candice 3: she was tall. And so We met, I think We were outside a car park,
Alicia: they've been
Candice 3: up like a little kid. I was just like,
Alicia: of time
Candice 3: She's
Trinity: word
Candice 3: and Rachel Burnetti's very little. It's
Alicia: There we go
Trinity: is
Alicia: international
Candice 3: us in all our heights, in all our heels.
Well, Alicia
will in heels no doubt. I'll be in my flats or my slippers, as we've now found I've got used to. But thank you so much
for joining us. Thank you. Yes, I
definitely am
Candice 1: To
had an
Candice 3: thank you for joining us today. Thank you for everything that you do for the admin
Candice 1: there's
Candice 3: do it without
Candice 1: to and
Candice 3: so
Candice 1: talk some the
Candice 3: So "We will see you very soon. Very much looking forward to you. Thank
Alicia: Thank you. Thanks for having us.
Trinity: Thanks for having us.
Loved being here. [00:58:00] Bye. Bye
for now