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Pacey invites a woman from the convenience store to Dawson’s place for the usual Friday the 13th seance while a serial killer stalks Capeside in Season 1 Episode 11: the Scare, also known as Friday the 13th.
A Dawson's Creek Rewatch Podcast for those who missed the boat!
Freaks & Creeks: a Dawson's Creek Podcast dives into each episode of the hit '90s TV show Dawson's Creek with a fresh perspective. Join Cody, Stella, Mal and James as they set sail through turbulent waters determined to understand this iconic teen drama’s place in the modern television zeitgeist.
Cody: Welcome to Freaks and Creeks adopted Creek Podcast, the show where four millennials who missed about 25 years ago take the dive for the first time. Join us, uh, as we experience the series with a fresh perspective week to week and see if our adolescent experiences match up with Austin and the gang. My name is Cody.
Stella: I'm Stella.
Mallory: I'm Mallory.
James: And I'm James. Welcome to Freaksy Creeks. We, uh, got some cape correspondence this week, I believe.
Stella: Yeah, we got a really sweet review on Apple podcasts from user Felicity 38. To sum it up, she said, I have consumed so much DC content, and yet this podcast has been able to surprise me with different takes and opinions on things I've never heard before. As some of the big Dawsons Creek podcasts are entering the later seasons, this is the podcast to listen to. That is so sweet. Thank you so much. What a, uh, kind review.
Cody: Do you think the viewpoint that they're referring to that they don't have to hear about has to do with Vampire Lord? No one's talking about it.
James: It's true. I wonder. Yeah. Uh, when Cody shared this in our, um, podcast, Slack, it was so nice to read. So thank you so much. It was kind of like a little emotional. I don't know if you guys it made me feel like a little weepy. It was just weird to be recognized by somebody we don't know saying such nice things about the show that I think we all love the show, obviously, but it's crazy. So thank you.
Cody: Oh, I wrote that, Cody, the first of the Friday the 13th pranks.
Mallory: Good one.
James: Oh, I love a good Friday the 13th break. Um, also, I wanted to just throw this out there. Uh, we received an email last week for our last episode, I should say. Um, from Luis from Brazil. He's the one who kind of gave us that tip on, um, Pacey on Joshua Jackson. He's not just Pacey being from Canada. So I wanted to officially shout them out. Thank you for that. They also wanted us to give a shout out to all of the Joey and Pacey fans on the Rdawsonscreek, uh, Subreddit, or as we call them, the Joe Pay fans. And that's going to be a name that sticks, I think. Um, so yeah, shout out to the Dawsons Creek subreddit. It is a place that I don't go because it is so filled with spoilers, but I do appreciate everybody's enthusiasm. Have you guys been to the Dawsons Creek subreddit?
Stella: No.
Cody: Once I did and then I realized that it's not a good place to be if you don't know anything at Dawson's Creek. So right out of there, yes, I.
James: Appreciate the enthusiasm of everybody there. There's a lot of really good content. But man, if you haven't seen the show before, it's like, remember that time when Joey kissed somebody in this episode? And you're like, actually, no. But now. I know it happens.
Cody: That's what I saw when I went in there. Every post is like, I can't believe Mitch stabbed Gail.
James: Yeah, exactly.
Cody: Great.
James: Yeah, I'd like to spend more time there. But I guess it's just going to have to wait until, uh, like ten years from now when we finally finish recording all of our episodes.
Cody: Well, sweet.
James: This week we're talking about season one, episode eleven, The Scare. The only way you can say that, uh, this episode was released on the spookiest day of the entire year, which is May 5, 1998. Um don't know why, but I do appreciate it. Uh, um, the synopsis Wildes is preparing to celebrate Friday the 13th. A serial killer is rumored to be headed to Capeside. And this episode was written by our old friend, Mike White. Long time best friend, I think, of all of ours.
Cody: We love him to get on the show.
James: We love Mike. Um, but what I was so surprised to see and um, didn't really realize it at first, but it was directed by a gentleman by the name of Rodman flnder, which what? Um, a name? Yeah. Definitely not a name. Made up by an alien who's visiting Earth to try to gather information.
Cody: It reminds me of Mrs. Doubtfire when Robin Williams is looking around the room at certain things to just create a name. He's like Dennis Rodman.
James: Okay, blender. No. Um there we go. Um, but Rodman flnder, besides having an amazing name, he directed several things, which, um, I really appreciate. Most importantly, though, is the movie Idle Hands with does anybody remember Idle Hands?
Cody: Love that movie.
James: Got Devon sawa. It's. Got Seth Green. It's got a few other people. I think it has. Jessica alba. A very young Jessica Alba. Um, in this movie, Devin Sawwell becomes possessed by some kind of demon. And he has to cut his hand off because it's taken over his hand. And he puts the hand in the microwave to kill the demon. But it doesn't kill the demon hand. And then the whole rest of the movie is this high school hijinks of this possessed hand plaguing the town and killing. I think he's killing it's killing people. I don't actually remember. It's been a long time, but I watched this movie so many times as a kid.
Cody: It was a Comedy Central staple. I feel like they would play it every afternoon. Every time I would come home to school, it was airing.
James: It was so good. I mean, it had so many amazing practical effects. Like Seth Green as a zombie for I want to say, like most of the film. And he's in corpse makeup for all of it. It doesn't look great now, but back then, it looked fucking incredible.
Cody: Yeah. And his friend is, uh, Foggy from Daredevil. And he has, like, his throat slit. I just remember there were scenes that were really disgusting of him trying to eat and it would just come out of the Slatehole. It was very funny.
James: But Rodman Flinder, he wasn't just a horror movie guy, which I think is maybe why he got pulled in to direct this episode. They're like, hey, we want some spooky chops on this one. He also directed two episodes of The Office. The US. Office. Yeah.
Mallory: Uh, were they Halloween episodes?
James: They were not. The Whale and Lice, which I don't remember either one of those episodes, to be honest. I've watched the show a lot. But don't pay attention to the episode titles from 2012 and 13.
Cody: Yeah, it seems like most of his credits are just TV nowadays. Uh, and it seems like if you're a TV director, you don't have much of a voice and it's more of like, putting out the rest of the product that's already been solidified.
James: Right.
Cody: He has a really impressive IMDb.
James: He does leprechaun too.
Cody: He did direct the Conan, uh, O'Brien documentary. Oh, that's cool.
James: So Robin flunder. I mean, what a nice little treat. I wasn't expecting it. It really made me happy to see. And like I said, I didn't recognize it at first until we were doing research for the show. And then I was like, Robin thunder. That's such a fake name. What did they do? And it blew my mind to find out that one of my favorite childhood movies was directed by this guy.
Cody: It's been a long time since I've watched Idle Hands, but in my memory, that movie rules. And I feel like you're always asking people like, what's a hidden gem for the horror genre? Because people only talk about 50 movies and then there's nothing else. If you haven't seen Idle Hands and you like horror comedy, you got to give it a shot.
James: It's hilarious.
Cody: It's a fun time.
James: Fun. We're going to watch it. Um, but yeah, I mean, this episode kind of has a little bit of everything. I mean, it's got some incredible supernatural evidence that I believe completely solidifies every theory that we've been sharing. It's got incredible cinematography. I love the way that this episode was shot. They were trying so many different things. They really made it feel new and unique and different. We got some new characters. We got a few new locations. Um, I was so pleased with this episode. What about you guys? How did you enjoy your watch?
Stella: I loved it.
James: Ah.
Stella: I thought it was so fun. Um, I actually enjoyed Dawson in this episode.
Mallory: Agree.
Stella: Yeah, it was weird. I was like, okay, I kind of like you. I, uh, don't think that will last. But, um, it was just, like, fun seeing him be silly.
Cody: Um, you liked that he was a little stinker.
Stella: Yeah, we can get into it more. But I just felt like it didn't seem like he was so obsessed with the gen situation that he was just like, having fun and being maybe who he was before he met her, right. And he just seemed like kind of like a fun, silly guy to be.
Mallory: Around at the exact same notice.
James: Uh.
Mallory: The exact same thought. It was like he was less obsessed with Jen, and even though he was annoying because he was doing all these annoying pranks, it was just like, fun.
Stella: Cody has some different, I guess.
Cody: Well, just on that point, I mean, I obviously loved this episode. I'm a genre person, so this is a lot of fun. But, um, to say everything was targeted against Jen, at least from my point of view. He was going so overboard on everybody because he knew he was excluding Jen and he was like peacocking. For Jen to notice that she was the only one that wasn't getting these pranks.
Mallory: I felt like we were seeing more of his personality just with his friends.
James: Like a fiddle.
Mallory: Oh, man.
Cody: No, I completely agree with Cody.
James: I think that's interesting.
Mallory: That's so interesting.
James: Yeah, I mean, we have talked about this show and how it conveniently forgets the episodes all the time. And this episode actually demonstrates that on two sides it conveniently forgets Jen and, uh, Joey basically being mortal enemies because they decided to be friends again. But then it also, um what the fuck were we just talking about?
Mallory: Dawson.
Cody: We're talking about Dawson's Creek.
James: Shit.
Mallory: We thought he was being more like himself and less than Jen.
James: Yeah, so it forgets that Joey and Jen hate each other, but then it also remembers that Pacey gave Dawson this whole how to NEG your ex girlfriend into loving you again, basically by excluding her.
Mallory: Yeah, but I feel like in this particular episode, that's not what it felt like to me. It was more like he's like, this is my favorite day, so this is like that was I don't know, I'm.
Cody: Right there with it because he looks like he's having fun.
Mallory: It's like having fun.
Cody: It's not but the thing that brings me back into being like this fucking guy is when they go up to the bedroom and his master plan works, they put on that horrible little slow jam and he touches her face and they almost kiss. Spoiler alert. But it was just like, oh, he.
Mallory: Knew this is what it didn't seem like his main plan, though. I feel like it was kind of like an afterthought to his 1 st, if you will, his yearly tradition of doing this.
Cody: No, this is good. We're talking about how Wood Dawson have done what he had done if there wasn't a cliff situation and if, uh, he wasn't going to be able to get Jen as the side extra piece of him doing these pranks. He had his cake and ata too. It's like, if Jen didn't exist, would he still be having a goofy fun time if he's pulling all these pranks? Probably. But since Jen is there, it's like, well, maybe I'll have my cake and eat it, too. Uh, he'll be able to do these things. Do I agree? I don't know. I don't know. You're here to convince me. I think he's a devious little shit.
James: Yeah, I'm right there with you. I think he knew exactly what he was doing. I don't think that he necessarily planned for it to go this way, but I think he knew that he was excluding Jen and that he knew that would have some kind of impact on her and he was probably looking for that the entire time. Like, is this hurting her? Because if it's hurting her, then maybe I still got a chance. That's how I see it. M?
Mallory: Yeah, I did not catch that.
Cody: There's even a part when I think it's in the cafeteria, we're going to get into it. But, uh, when they're in the cafeteria, he gaslights her when she's like, what, are you going to scare me? And he's like, no, I don't think you're particularly interested in being scared or whatever. And then M just kind of like, blows it off in a weird way that you just know that he's using it as ammunition to get under her skin and exclude her.
Mallory: Not my review, not my invention either.
Stella: Okay, let's maybe start and then we can ever start.
Cody: But I also just want to talk about how, um, I don't think this is a perfect episode. I do have a lot of complaints about it, but I did love it from having fun. And it might be just a millennial thing and older, but for me, I think I get a lot of nostalgia when I see a horror movie that's shot on film specifically. And it makes me think of like when I was in 6th grade and it'd be a sleepover and I'd go rent to a spooky movie blockbuster, renting a slumber party and it looks like shit and teenagers getting killed. It just like, warms my heart, baby. And oh God, do I love a good Halloween episode of a sitcom that I like. Even though this has nothing to do with Halloween and for whatever reason, this has to do with Friday the 13th, which makes no sense. Also, we talked about it being an annual event. If you Google how many Friday the 13th of three.
Mallory: Isn'T always a Friday 13th. So it's not necessarily annual. It's just like whenever there is one.
Cody: But imagine how SoftEd you must be to keep tabs on that.
James: When's the next one? I got to get planning. Well, should we get into it?
Cody: Yeah.
James: Is it time?
Cody: In honor of the Gregorian calendar providing our titular hero with the culturally scary day of Friday the 13th, dawson and Joy celebrate by watching hey, you Guessed It, that Kevin Williamson scripted I Know What You Did Last Summer. Joy turns the movie off and an argument ensues between her and Dawson on the merits of the horror genre. Switching the TV to cable a news story tells the tale of an East Coast serial killer's latest victim being discovered, further emphasizing Joey's distaste for the film genre. When our reality is pretty dark as well. When Joey changes the channel and gets sucked into the drama of Jerry Maguire, dawson disappears. A frightened Joey looks for him only for a masked Dawson to pop out underneath the bed with a fright.
James: Um, okay, so I believe we've talked about this on air a couple of times already, but, um, I have watched I Know What You Did Last Summer relatively recently. It's one of a, uh, favorite movies of mine. One of my favorite movies. That's one of yours? Of mine.
Cody: It is.
James: That's perfect. Anyway, and I just happened to catch the scene that they're showing from I Know What You Did Last Summer. They're actually cutting it up and changing it around. That's not actually the way it goes in the movie, which probably is just to protect the plot. It's also to make it more interesting. But they cut out like probably a minute and a half of that scene as the character runs up to her, the department store, she's banging on the door because she's being chased by the killer and she needs to get let in.
Cody: She needs to get let in.
James: They make it look like she gets killed right there. She actually gets inside. She doesn't get killed, her sister does. It's just unfair. That the way that they mispartrayed, misrepresented this film.
Cody: It's been like 15 years since I watched that movie. You got to watch it again. I'm waiting for the come out and then I'm going to just dive in. But my question is okay, so, yeah, like, Kevin Williamson created the show. Um, Kevin Williamson did not write this episode. I mean, he's a showrunner, so he's in the writer's room and everything, but what are we doing? There's also a screen reference later in his creation. We get the posters in every episode, too. They're going so hard on Kevin Williamson's career as like the backbone of all their interests and everything they watch. It seems so peculiar to me. I can't think of any other medium where they do something like this.
Stella: Well, I feel like those movies I feel like we're so big at that time. I think that was just like a big part of the culture then.
James: They're very in the zeitgeist. And I do see a lot of crossover between I know what you did last summer and dawson's creek. I mean, beyond just the fact that it's Kevin Williamson, but I Know What You Did Last Summer is about four kids who are just exiting high school. A horrible thing happens and then they are basically being haunted by these events, which of course, ends up with a killer chasing them. Those four teams feel very similar in some ways to Dawson, Joey, Jen, and Pacey. Um, it's also shot in the exact same place. So I like to believe that, um, I know what you did last summer in Dawson's Creek are actually one extended universe. And maybe those kids, uh, actually were, because they would have been before Dawson and the gang, but they would have known them.
Cody: I know we talk about David Lynch a lot on this show, but it reminds me of Lynch's Expanded Universe. Um, you can see there's the red curtain of the black lodges and almost all of his work and stuff like that. So I wonder if Williamson is really trying to push for like, this connected random universe of kids getting killed but also falling in love.
James: It would really concrete make my vampire theory concrete if it was all just one extended universe.
Stella: Um, so I'm happy that you mentioned that it was shot in the same place because, um, I noticed when they were watching the movie, there's like a shot of the town and I was like, yeah, that seems like downtown.
Mallory: Totally.
Stella: It's like Dawsonville.
James: It is Main Street. I'm pretty sure it's the same location where in episode one, they're walking to the Rialto movie theater. It's shot from a different angle. Um, or it's in that same episode, they show a Main Street shot of Dawson riding his bike up on Joey. And I squared it out. It is the exact same location. And I think it's so fun.
Mallory: Oh, that's cool.
Stella: Um, okay, two random questions before we move on. How could she not notice that Dawson.
Mallory: Went under because she was watching Jerry Maguire, her future husband, Tommy.
James: Weird. I know.
Stella: That was like a brief moment for one thing, for him to just disappear from the bench. How could you not notice him getting up and then to get under the.
Mallory: Bed he just rolled off or something?
James: It's an early advertisement for temperature mattresses. You can jump up and down and not spill a glass of wine and that thing so, you know, dolphin can get up and sneak under the bed.
Cody: With or without shoes. Uh, have you ever watched Jerry Maguire? You get sucked in?
Mallory: Oh, yeah.
Cody: Takes less than a second for you to just get tunnel vision. I don't blame her.
Stella: I don't know, it was weird. Like, when we were first watching it, um, that moment where we pan away and see that she's by herself on the bed for a second. I was like, oh, is this like a dream? It was just weird. It was like, how did you just disappear?
James: Look, this movie has so many references, but this episode has so many film references. But that moment, you nailed it when you said, it felt like a dream to me, it felt like Nightmare on Elm Street when we go into Freddy Kruger's dream world where we suddenly fall asleep and everything is off kilter and weird. That tonal shift happens in that first scene. And then from then on, we're kind of in this like horror universe and it feels almost like a dream state. And I like the idea that Joey falls asleep watching that movie and everything we see is like her nightmare instead of reality.
Cody: That's cool.
Mallory: Stella, I was asking as uh, someone who doesn't necessarily like horror, did you feel one with Joey in that scene?
Stella: I did, I felt very scene.
Mallory: Yeah.
Cody: I think me and you have had this exact same conversation of arguing the merits of the genre itself.
Stella: Yes, exactly.
Cody: And I'm right, I felt like I was watching you too.
Stella: Um, okay, sorry. Are you going to see anything else, Mel?
Cody: No. Okay, we're going to bring up the tickle fight because we yeah, I was.
Mallory: Going to point out that Joy was clutching the stuffed shark while they were watching, uh, save me Jaws.
Stella: Yeah, I was going to just say how much do these two wrestle in general? And then in this episode it felt like it happened quite a way.
Mallory: Yeah, uh, more than once.
James: We've seen several scenes of them like having a little tickle fight or a wrestling match and that's one of the first notes I wrote on this is who doesn't love a good wrestling match with their best friend?
Stella: Yeah. It also just begs the question like, at some point is he getting a boner?
Mallory: Yeah, you would think so.
Cody: And she knows it. In the halls of Capeside High, Pacey delivers an exposition dump revealing that Dawson's parents are out of town as well as explaining Dawson's infatuation with Friday the 13th and that he uses it as an excuse to get extra spooky and pull frightening shenanigans all day and all night. However, Dawson says he's no longer trying to make his life like a movie due to his failed romance with Jen as Pacey proclaims his distrust and disappointment, uh, pop goes the weasel like contraption explodes out of Paisy's locker giving him a shock as Dawson laughs my notes.
Stella: I wrote that I felt impressed. Question mark.
Mallory: I was playing it cool.
Stella: Yeah, he played it so cool and it was like kind of cute when he got pasty like the expression on his face.
Mallory: He was so proud of himself.
Stella: I loved it. Uh, yeah, I really love Dawson in that moment.
Cody: I understand because here's the thing, uh, being confident at anything is an attractive trait and Dawson sure is good at his little shenanigans and that makes sense to me. And he's having fun, he knows he's good at it, but it's the ultimate goal. That's the sour taste that gets placed into my baby mouth.
Stella: Yeah, because saying the ultimate goal is to get Jen.
Cody: Yeah.
Stella: Okay. I don't agree.
James: Here's what I think. Let's pretend that Jen and Dawson didn't break up and that Jen isn't being asked out on a date by Cliff this episode. If they were dating, what would Dawson be doing? Scaring the shit out of Jen. M. So why isn't he scaring jen right now?
Mallory: I don't know. Well, do you think he would be scaring the shit out of Jennifer?
James: Yeah, he'd at least be including them in this. He would put the little finger and fries or some shit.
Cody: Put the carry bloody bucket on her.
Stella: The last episode, right, it was the carnival, the double date. Yes. Where they had the conversation where they say they shouldn't be friends, essentially. So I took that as like, okay, he's like off.
James: Yeah, mhm, but he's not just backing up. That's the crux of it is. I don't think he's just backing off.
Cody: It's just like a little shit. Like, again, we've talked about this so many times about the things that you see yourself in is the thing that makes you cringe the most.
James: Right?
Cody: And I see myself as Dawson. Maybe that's why I'm reading it this way, but I see myself as like, oh, so she doesn't like me. Well, then I'm just not going to care about her and see how she feels about it. And I feel like this kind of idea of making forcing someone to not be a part of you, like excluding them on purpose kind of plays into the last conversation of this episode about like, would you even care if I died with Joe? That's such a fucked up, weird way to think. But it also makes me like, oh, this is how 15 year olds think. It's like, do people even care if I exist? And by Dawson excluding Jen, it's like she does not exist.
Mallory: I feel like, uh, maybe a couple of last two episodes he tried that and it didn't happen the way he wanted it. And so now it's like he's done with that and moving on. That's how I mean, but maybe not.
James: I agree, because he does. I think that is ultimately what we are supposed to be debating after this episode. Is Dawson being truthful? Because he says that here as he's talking to Paisley, he says, I wrote this down. The characters are flawed and uninspired, the love scenes were amateurish, to say the least, and the ending wasn't happy. So he's talking about his relationship with Jen there and he's saying, I'm done living in a fantasy land. Which is funny because he used to say movies are real life, it can be your life. So we're seeing a character shift here. But is it authentic or is it just to get everybody off balance so that these scares can happen and so that he can manipulate Jen a little bit? That's what I think.
Cody: He's a fucking puppet master. I mean, just the fact that he tells Pacey, I'm done. No way, Jose, I'm through with tricks, and then immediately following that is a trick. And then he's filled with pleasure to the point of going he knows what he's doing. And I also want to know, what is he going to dress as for Friday the 13th? As all children do.
James: Yes. They say that this is his favorite.
Cody: Night of the year.
James: That's what Paisley says.
Cody: There were three that year.
James: So how does he rank them? Which one of the three was his true favorite?
Cody: Is it just the fact that if you're going to celebrate, is it just because it's based on the Friday of the 13th movie series? Yeah. Which isn't like if he's like a film, bro, those movies aren't good. They're just fun. It's stupid fun, but it's not ideal to celebrate it.
James: I think it is just his film flex. Trying to flex it.
Cody: His favorite filmmaker is Steven Spielberg, so maybe he does think they're genuinely good movies. Jason goes to hell. I love it.
Mallory: I love the walk by wipe transition to the next scene at the end of this. Did anyone notice that, like, a Star Wars a student walked by and that's the transition to the next scene. It's a wipe.
Cody: Oh, my God.
Mallory: Okay, everyone re watched this transition from holy shit. Scene two to scene three. It's really cool.
James: Have they ever done a wipe?
Cody: No. I say no.
Mallory: It's a walk by. So it's like someone walking. It's not the wipe legend.
James: Cool. That's fine.
Mallory: I feel like that's how Jen enters into the next scene.
Cody: Yeah. This episode is so stylish.
James: So, Steve.
Cody: That's the thing.
Stella: Real quick, did you like Dawson's, um, green, like, flannel that he had jacket things? Yeah, I thought it was kind of.
Mallory: Like a light plaid, uh, it was.
Stella: Like a four C green folly.
Mallory: I loved it. Yeah, he's got a good jacket collection. I feel like he's wearing good jackets.
Cody: Jen is followed by Cliff into an empty classroom who asks her on a date that night. Jen says she's just not dating right now, but Cliff says this is due to Dawson not being a fun person. Jen stands up for him, saying he's super fun and imaginative. But Cliff strikes back, asking why she dumped him. Then, as Joey, along with the rest of the class, settles in, jen changes gears and agrees to go out with Cliff. At this moment, Joey pulls out a fake rubber snake from her backpack, uh, throwing in fear. Another one of Dawson's dear tricks.
Stella: How does he have time to do all these things?
Cody: Why did he do this?
Mallory: He's so sneaky.
James: So I'm trying to remember. How was the snake conveyed? Was it just wrapped, like, rolled up inside her bag?
Mallory: It was like when she pulled her book out, it was kind of on there. And then she throws it at Jen.
James: On top of the book. Right?
Cody: Yeah.
James: So how doesn't Joey know when she grabs her book and there's this ropey thing on top of it? Wouldn't she have been like, what's that? You know what I mean?
Mallory: If you don't know what to expect, then it's like, kind of startling. I think she kind of reacted in an accurate way.
James: I don't.
Cody: Know, I have a side story, uh, which doesn't have anything to do with Dawson's Creek, but I think the listeners will enjoy, as all of you. It was freshman year of high school. I was 15 years old and I was taking a guitar one class. It was beginners and it was a big music room and it was a very diverse cast of kids in this class. And one of them I will not say their name, uh, I'll just call them Carl. Carl, uh, was, uh, i, uh, would say a stoner to the point of being brain dead, one of those kind of kids. And, uh, me and another student were walking to the back room where there was a soundproof room so we could play guitar a little louder. And we're walking by Carl and Carl is reaching his hand into his backpack and I just hear, oh. And I look back and Carl pulls his hand out and there's a full drill bit that is going through his hand, uh, through his palm, into the back. And I can see the pokey going through his skin.
James: And he just goes, oh.
Cody: And he's shaking his hand while the drill is in there. And everyone is standing there just staring, like you can't believe it.
Mallory: It's like a real horror movie.
Cody: It's almost like one of Dawson's silly little predator, but it was mind blowing. And it's just like, who doesn't think about when you're putting your hand into an empty bag? Especially if you might know what might be in there. Later we found out he had brought this tiny drill to school because Carl, uh, had a ceramics class and he was planning on making a weed pipe and he was going to use that to make the little holesy, uh, plug.
James: With your index finger.
Cody: That, um, remind me of Joey bag. And instead of a snake, it's a big fat Derill. I hope Carl's hand is okay. Who knows?
Mallory: Well, um, I want to talk about what Jen's wearing for a little bit here. Uh, so she walks in. She is wearing a red long sleeve turtleneck sweater. Um, and I think for her in the beginning of this episode, this represents possibly love, passion, or even anger. Also, the turtleneck and the long sleeves are very constructive. And so it could represent how she's feeling guarded now. And I point this out because later, what she's wearing for the next half of the episode, um, I think kind of connects. And I'll talk about that later, but.
James: 1 second, I agree. I, uh, felt like the turtleneck and it almost looks like she's being squeezed in it. And it made me feel like I agreed it's like symbolizing, in my opinion, passion or romance. And then it's like, restrictive.
Cody: She's restrictive.
Mallory: Kind of pulls her arms to her when she gets scared the first time in the locker at, uh, her locker. And yeah, very interesting.
James: Cool.
Stella: Uh, this conversation between Cliff and Jen felt uncomfortable. Yeah.
James: HM.
Stella: Just like, I'm not interested in Cliff.
Cody: This whole episode is how yes.
James: This ah, is where he takes a turn because he's just like, hey, I'm on a time crunch. Do you want to go out with me tonight? I have no idea what we're going to do, but I'm going to fucking love it.
Mallory: Also didn't feel like to any of you that the last episode didn't happen or that this was filmed before the carnival episode. And it had to be because there's a few definite parts of this in this episode where, like, Cliff alert references that this is their first date.
James: Yeah.
Stella: Oh, we didn't know.
Cody: This is why. Okay. Earlier I said, did I love this episode? I certainly did. Is it a five out of five? Absolutely not. Because, like, we complain, uh, about every episode so far as this show keeps forgetting what the fuck happened the episode before, and this one in the sequencing of these episodes has driven me mad. I don't even feel like I'm on Earth anymore because of this episode, my brain is depleted of all brain cells because not only does Jen this date thing with Cliff and that's weird, why did we have this conversation now after the carnival, but also later with, uh, the Joey and Pacey talk about the relationship. Pacey gives Joey more shit about like, well, you've been lusting after Dawson who doesn't even know you like him. What do you mean? We've spent the last, uh, four episodes where Joey is very explicitly, uh, talking about her relationship with us.
Mallory: So they just kissed. They just had a kiss. So there would be awkwardness between Santa.
Cody: It does not make sense. The only way that I can actually forgive this episode for those things is if they were like, listen, we're going to have a character Bible. Every episode is going to be exactly the same. We're going to have the exact same issue over and over again because we don't know if the show is going to get picked up, like, for six to twelve to 13 episodes and we're just going to drop them all at a random time. That's the only way that they can make sense.
James: Um, I have been saying this for a while and I think that this episode really sealed it for me. But I just keep going back to what we know about season one. They filmed the pilot, it gets picked up and then they film the whole rest of the season before the pilot ever airs. And I guarantee you they just had no fucking they did not evolve it. They just shot all of these episodes that they were like, we'll weave this into some kind of coherent season and it is not coherent, but I think in some moments it almost is. But then we get these immersion breaking episodes like this one, where it's like, how don't you guys remember that you had this same conversation last week.
Cody: It's also so frustrating, too, because, um, I like a good, complicated character where, uh, they have deep flaws that they're trying to get over. But Jen drives me absolutely nuts because of this, like, happening over and over again where she's not a girl, not yet a woman, and she's trying to break away from her past and be independent. But we have the exact same conversation every episode. If it's not with Dawson, it's going to be with Cliff. Uh, is she trying to build her confidence and not date anyone? Yeah, but then in a situation like this where the scene is, like, not even 30 seconds, she goes from, I don't really want to date to yeah, Cliff sounds great.
Stella: Yeah. Um, I also feel this frustration about Jen. I feel like we've heard this narrative, like, her say, I need to figure out who I am. I need to be by myself. And then she's like, Never mind, just kidding. Uh, so I don't know. I hope we do get to see her be single at some point.
Mallory: I hope so.
James: I doubt it.
Stella: Yeah.
Cody: I would love it, though.
James: I was just going to say that we're talking about things that continue to drive us up a wall. This is one thing that really drives me up a wall. It's that all the women in the show cannot help but talk about Dawson when he's not around. It's the only thing they're capable of doing. I captured this audio clip of Jen talking to Cliff about how fun Dawson is.
Stella: Kind of down on the whole dating.
Mallory: Thing after what happened last time because.
James: The guy you dated wasn't any fun.
Stella: What are you talking about?
Mallory: Dasm is fun. He's probably the most original and imaginative date on the planet. What?
Stella: Yeah. Why would you say that to someone that's asking you out that you have.
Mallory: Gone on a date with makes no sense.
James: It is so confusing and it is just you're right, Cody. It's just a male fantasy. This is what, I guess, the writers want, uh, out of the women in their lives is just, like, constantly thinking about me.
Mallory: Also, just back to that the snake moment, joey, when she pulls it out, she throws it at Jen. She doesn't throw it, like, anywhere else. I feel like it represents Joey as a possible threat to Jen because Joey's closer or is she getting scared?
James: Is it representing temptation like Adam and Eve and the serpent in the garden?
Cody: And don't forget the phallic symbol of the space.
Mallory: Right.
Stella: Um, did you happen to capture Cliff saying, I have humor?
James: Yeah, I love it. Let's take a listen.
Mallory: You got to admit, though, the guy.
Stella: Does have a sense of humor.
James: But I have humor.
Mallory: I know.
James: Ah. I have humor. Okay, look, I am really funny.
Mallory: We've got some good lines.
James: You just have to spend some time with me. But my jokes are really good. I make my dad laugh sometimes and he's really hard to make laughs, so I'm funny.
Cody: Classic cliff mood. Uh, move. Mood moved. My favorite new comedy, uh, Trope is Hot Guy Be Silly Sometimes, which is, I think we've watched, uh oh my God, I can't believe I was pacing his name, but 21 Jump Street.
James: Channing Tatum.
Cody: Yes. Channing Tatum. After 21 Jump street. And also, um the Lost City. Yeah, which isn't a perfect movie, but I just love a hot guy who's stupid. It's so funny and he kills it at that. I love seeing Cliff being a, uh, moron and hitting that lady on the way out. Funny stuff.
James: I wish that this is the character they gave Cliff from the beginning because he was like a nice guy in the beginning and now he's like a lovable goof, I think. But also a little bit predatory.
Cody: Yes. As the crew eats their ketchup drenched lunch in the cafeteria, pacey fills us in on the mountain operandi of the East Coast Killer, stating he heard from Deputy Dougie that he strikes in 100 miles radius, leaving Capeside vulnerable. As Dawson joins after Jump scaring Joey, he slips a fake amputated finger into Pacey's fries while inviting the gang over that night for a sans. Um, Jane admits to not being able to come that night due to her date, which DOST says doesn't bother him. After a beat, she asks why he hasn't pulled any pranks on her. He says he didn't think she was into spooks, although it's transparent he's purposely excluding her. Like Hitchcock's bomb under the table metaphor for creating suspense come to life. Pacey finally takes a bite of that rubber finger. After the screens die down, Pacey puts the finger in Joey's fries to which eventually throws back at Pacey.
Mallory: Bitch.
Stella: I thought he does it at Joy.
Cody: Joy. Sorry.
James: Whatever. Who gets the finger? Um, I captured this. I want us all to listen to it. Mhm?
Cody: What about no more life imitating movies?
James: Awesome. Just say they don't have this.
Cody: Die Hard.
James: I don't, friend. Die even harder. Is that your inspiration, Cody, for your Goblin character earlier today?
Cody: Oh, is that what that is?
Stella: I thought it was my Goblin. Um I loved this. I thought it was so fun.
James: Mhm.
Stella: I loved seeing them just all be fun. Silly friends.
Mallory: Yeah, I love the opening where Pacey's squeezing a load of ketchup onto the fries. The blood.
James: I had friends like this, though, that drowned their fries and ketchup, like, would eat just soaking wet fries and it always has disgusted me.
Cody: I don't like a wet fry, mhm, that's disgusting. No, I mean, if any character in Dawson's Creek and you're like making me to guess which one is drowning their eyes in ketchup, obviously.
James: Tasty, definitely.
Cody: I bet he has ketchup fingers. He does not wash his hands after the cafeteria.
James: He's definitely also the kind of guy who is going to just be squirting mustard for like 3 hours on his hamburger. Just like not enough. Need it to just be gushing out whenever I take a bite.
Mallory: I, uh, just like the element of this because it was like blood.
Cody: You just know there's someone that has a class of pacey. It's the uh, last period every day and there's like, god, he smells so bad. Ketchup. E, sweaty. After. PE after basketball.
James: Ketchup. Sweats.
Mallory: Nasty.
James: I mean, this is intentional but uh, what do you guys feel about this? Let's talk about it after.
Mallory: Does that bother you?
James: Should it?
Mallory: I don't know.
James: No, it doesn't bother me. Does it bother you? That doesn't bother me.
Mallory: Should it?
James: I don't know.
Stella: M it doesn't bother me.
Mallory: Mom. Um, glad nobody's bothered. That's great.
James: That's perfect comedy.
Cody: How could you not think Dawson doesn't know what he's doing after that?
Stella: I don't know.
Cody: It doesn't bother me.
James: Why would it bother me?
Mallory: I think there would have been an edge to how he said it. I don't know.
James: There was an edge to how he said it.
Mallory: That's so funny because I did not feel that way.
Stella: Yeah, with this interaction it felt like they're both playing kind of coin and they're just like both trying to be cool and uh, we're over it like we're moving on but maybe we still like each other. It didn't but that's it.
James: Ah, it felt like flirting to me. Which gets back to what Cody and I are saying. He is doing this for a reason. It's not just innocent.
Cody: Man is leading a sinful life. Uh, not to switch gears, but Richard, uh, Ramirez, the Night Stalker, uh, after he, uh, murdered and tortured a bunch of people when he was finally caught, they talk about how when he'd be in a courtroom he would have fans. Like people were obsessed with him and they would come to the courtroom and it was like women that thought he was sexy even though he's um, one of the worst of the worst. And this is my problem with Jen because after it's described that this killer is leaving letters and phone calls and he rips people's hearts out, jen's reaction is it's sad. He's just looking for love.
Mallory: That's because she's thinking about Dawson. M. She's missing, Dawson. That's where her mind is right now. She's missing the idea of a romantic relationship. And so in her mind it's killer. It's disgusting. But that's like where her mind went first.
Cody: I know. Symbolically ripping the heart out. I mean, that's what we're supposed to believe but it's still just like that's.
Mallory: Her first reaction, right? It was wild. I thought that was wild.
Cody: She's a Richard Gramirez girl.
Stella: Um, also, so Joey says you're going to send me to the rubber room.
Mallory: Yeah, it's like a crazy that's what I thought when I was like, you're driving me crazy.
Stella: Do people call that?
Cody: I think it's just the show trying to be like a noir movie. They love their lingo.
Mallory: Okay, we also, uh, learned once again that Paisy's brother is a cop because he says my brother is in the note because he's a cop. Yeah, thanks for letting us know again.
James: I liked that. Um, this story that Pacey tells here is the exact same story Dawson tells later around the seance table. Dialed it up a little bit more, mhm. Okay, um, look, I have a theory I'd like to enter into the court of freaks, uh, and creeks. Let's take a listen to this and I will expand on it, but just take a listen. Oh God.
Mallory: Thanks, Dawson. Thanks for giving me a break.
James: Okay, so that's after Pacey is eating the rubber finger. What I really want us to pay attention to is Dawson's laugh in the very beginning. Here, I'm going to play it one more time. Okay?
Mallory: Thanks, Dass.
James: Okay. All right. What do you guys think about that?
Cody: Witchy.
Mallory: Yeah. Witchy.
James: Okay, interesting.
Mallory: It's like a cackle.
James: Yeah, I see that. But I think I am picking something else up. I'm going to play it one more time.
Mallory: All right, thanks.
Cody: Are you going to say it sounds like the Star Wars theme?
James: Yes. He's a half man, half Star Wars. No, he's a donkey man.
Mallory: What?
James: Yeah, that is his true donkey nature coming out. He is half man, half donkey. He is not Dawson. Okay. He's Dawson.
Stella: Wait, is that like a thing in Pinocchio?
Cody: Yeah, they all become little donkeys. All the bad boys don't like that.
Stella: Creepy.
James: Mhm.
Cody: You have a specific thing about people turning into animals that you do not like. Correct.
Mallory: Okay.
Cody: Which is funny because you love animals.
Stella: Yeah. Don't like it.
James: No.
Stella: Thank you. Let's not talk about it anymore.
James: Do you guys remember in the early days of the pandemic and the quarantine and how fun all that was?
Cody: Yeah.
James: All the great things that came out of it in social media. Like everybody posting fun Instagram, uh, stories of like, using a new filter. Do you guys remember the filter that turned you into an animal? Oh, yes. I guarantee you if you do it on Dawson, he's going to turn into either a horse or a donkey.
Cody: Oh my God.
James: So look at our Instagram and find it because, uh, it's going to be there. Um.
Cody: Uh, I did that Instagram filter of Pacey with the snail. Did I send that to you guys yet?
Mallory: No, you didn't, but you got to send that.
Cody: Okay? Yeah. Listeners have been listening to every episode. You know what we're talking about? That sexy snail chime.
James: I love that.
Stella: So that's my theory.
James: Dawson's a donkey man.
Cody: Fine, donkey man.
James: He has this laugh multiple times through the episode. OK, so it's not just this one time. He routinely, as he is doing his little hijinks, has his donkey laugh. So, um, food for thought. Pay attention if you see him eating grass. You know why?
Cody: After Mr. Gold wraps up his Friday the 13th film class discussion on John Carpenter and Alfred Hitchcock, cliff asks Dawson for some bizarrely, inappropriate gen dating advice. Cliff references Jen's Descriptors of Dawson. Imagine it of original dawson. His wheels turn and he says he'll think about it.
Stella: So again, with people celebrating Friday the 13th, like, it's, uh, just a regular thing that the film class is dedicating.
Mallory: Uh, yes. Mr. Gold is just like dawson celebrates Fire the 13th. I felt like it was like Kevin Williamson speaking through Mr. Gold.
Cody: Do you think this is a Massachusetts thing? Like, Salem is big in Massachusetts for a very good reason. Is it just like part of the spooky nature? Like they love Friday 13th?
Mallory: Or did Dawson talk Mr. Gold into doing this for a class or give him the idea? He would, right?
Cody: He's insufferable. Of course he would do this.
Stella: Also, um, I love that Dawson is just like a part of the class now. Uh, originally he was supposed to just not purchase just like there and teacher's pet.
Cody: Uh, also, just want to note, at least I thought this was symbolical, but he's talking about Hitchcock and John Carpenter and they're talking about light and dark and how characters are framed. And I feel like, at least for me and James, this episode believing there's light in Dawson, but also darkness in Dawson, which is overtaking one. And if it's not this episode of previous episodes where Dawson can be a little shit, but also he has a heart of gold, maybe. I don't know. So I felt like that was very important. But I also thought it was a fun little wink to the audience for Mr. Gold saying, well, that's just for today. Next time we'll go back to David Lean, which is like, oh, we're going to go back to the regular format of Dawson's Creek.
Mallory: That's why I felt like it was like Kevin Williamson M speaking through Mr. Gold.
Cody: It's funny because David, I mean, I've seen three of his movies. Brief Encounter is the only one that's like very romantic because that's like a before sunset, sunrise kind of thing of like two people meeting for the first time and falling for each other. But his other big movies are like Bridge on the River Kwai and Lawrence of Arabia, which aren't very big movies. Not like, uh, a high school melodrama. So I thought weird choice.
James: Yeah.
Cody: Huh.
James: Strange.
Mallory: Did you get a, uh, Cliff saying think? We like, think is good.
James: Yeah. I wanted to just ignore this thing. I tried to pretend it wasn't happening happening, because it's pretty weird. Very strange.
Cody: Would you ever go out of your way to ask someone's ex partner advice on how to date their ex partner? It's so weird.
James: I mean, if I had CTE from playing football yeah, maybe because this dude, this motherfucker, how many interactions have they had? Around Dawson and Jen right at the dance. That was a big one. That was a memorable one. Let's not forget that one. Okay, cool. I'm going to invite you to a party. Oh, that's your girlfriend? Yeah.
Mallory: You can come too.
James: That's chill. Um, then there's the fucking fair where you're on a date, but he's also there for some reason. So what part of this is like, that's the dude I'm going to ask for advice?
Cody: Yes. Absurd. Yeah.
James: Well put.
Cody: Again, the show forgetting what it is, but also good evidence that he has played one too many football games. Your name is Dawson, right? Yeah.
James: God.
Cody: Back in the hallway, Jen opens her locker finding a note that reads, you are going to die tonight. Just then, Cliff scares her by turning the corner and putting his hand on her shoulder. She tells him she thinks Dawson put the note in her locker and Cliff tells her that it'll protect her and that, uh, their date that night is going to be a surprise.
Mallory: So later, of course, we find out that this is Cliff doing all these things. He had. Exactly how much time did it between Dawson telling Dawson that he wants an idea to then thinking of this and.
Stella: Then putting his letter logger, I thought.
Cody: It was silly, horrible editing. You should have put a filler scene, something to pad that out a little bit. Didn't make any sense.
Mallory: Yeah.
Stella: Did anyone right away think it was Cliff?
Mallory: No. I did think it was Dawson.
James: I didn't really have any thoughts on who I thought it was. I just wasn't suspecting Cliff at that point in time.
Cody: I don't remember.
James: I didn't think it was Dawson to be fair. I knew it wasn't the killer though, because I was like, why would the killer be in high school?
Mallory: But I love the, uh, distorted camera movement when it kind of zoomed out on Jen reading the letter.
Cody: Yeah, it was awesome.
James: Great horror movie. Yeah, love that.
Cody: Later that day, Jen's alone at her house when she gets an anonymous caller. We enter an homage to Kevin Williamson's project Scream in which they first playfully banned her about scary movies before the collar. Let it be known that they're watching Jen with vague threats to her safety. As the fear gets the best of her, she races around the house believing her comatose grandfather is in trouble. She believes it's all over when the door handle begins to shake, only to be a fake out for Grahams to waltz into the house. When Jen questions the caller's identity, they reply soon. Jennifer.
James: Oh baby. This is a great little, uh, sequence of shots on my rewatch. It's so clear that this is Cliff on the phone. Oh yeah.
Stella: Once, you know, the first time we watched it, I knew right away. I can tell it was his voice and to me it felt very clear. Like we see him asking Dawson for advice. We know that Jen says she felt left out and to me it was clear that Dawson had told Cliff, oh, you should mess with her.
James: Mhm. It felt like the scene was, um, kind of like the network was like, all right, we want you to do Scream. Um, but it needs to be daytime TV friendly. So can we shoot it in the daylight? Is that okay?
Mallory: I did think it was effective, the opening of the scene where we're looking from a distance at the house and it's like someone's watching the house and then you hear the phone ring but you're not in the house yet. That was really cool.
Cody: Yeah, they did a really good job with that.
Mallory: It was like a sense of dread.
James: Definitely. It was plotted, I mean, it was, uh, blocked out so well. It was very tense and I really enjoyed it. This is maybe my favorite sequence in the whole episode.
Mallory: Were you spooked?
Stella: I was a little spooked, but it was okay for me. This was an okay spook. I had fun.
Cody: Love, uh, that the cinematography changed from, as usual, keeping the camera still or doing easy dolly tracking shots and they instead changed it to doing handheld for following her through the house looked really rich. Um, loved the shot of her walking back and forth in the kitchen because I was expecting there to be a face in the window when she kept going by it or someone standing in that little, like the mud room in the background. It's so good. And going to the gram's room with a window open.
Mallory: The wind.
James: So I got a couple of clips, uh, here that I want to play yet again. Jen just can't help but talk about Dawson because, uh, at the same time she does think that this is Dawson on the phone call. But I just really liked Cliff saying this. This guy Dawson sounds like a real loser.
Mallory: Yeah, well, he's not. All right. Just a little out there, but in a good way.
James: Check your grandfather. Check your grandfather. How doesn't she know that that's Cliff? Because it's like, so clearly Cliff.
Cody: Just the fact that we later find out, like, we find out if Cliff and that he was inspired by, uh, Dawson saying that she likes to get scared, uh, going a little hard, like pushing envoy a little bit, threatening her grandfather who might die at any second is like, that seems like a pretty sinister thing to do.
Stella: Yeah, that was my note as well. It was like, at some point she's kind of like laughing along for a little bit and then you could tell she's like really freaked out and you would think he would stop by the way that she's responding.
James: Yeah, um, I think his room is haunted from all the vampires that he's been killing because there's a lot of spooky shit happening in this room.
Mallory: Also, he's supposed to be in a coma, right? Or not, because he is moving. It was confusing.
James: Yeah. He did smack the shit out of her head.
Mallory: Yeah. And also his head moved. He ring into a zombie. Um, before Jen enters Graham's bedroom, james, did you take note of any of the items in the hallway? I know previous episodes using numerology.
James: Yeah.
Mallory: You were taking inventory.
James: I just had but no, I didn't. What did you count?
Mallory: Graham's has an entire wall of decorative dinner plates, like 15 or 20 of them just lined up on a wall.
James: That's my girl. I have a decorative plate commemorative m. Five years of a dam. Put that on a plate.
Cody: If King GIZ came out with a plate, would you buy it?
James: Oh, yeah. I hope they do. Um, they should.
Cody: They have to be listening by now.
James: They better be.
Cody: We've mentioned them every episode. Guys, you've got to come out with.
James: A plate or a cereal bowl. I'll take a cereal bowl.
Cody: Those were cool, too. I remember I had a Jurassic Park cereal bowl as a child, and they came with the spoon, those shapes, like a velociraptor after. You have that, too.
Stella: I remember those little spoons for other things. I feel like I had maybe a princess one or something.
James: Speaking of princesses, um, as Jen is walking, well, first and foremost, she gets smacked in the back of the head by her grandfather. She almost cuts the throat with a butcher knife that she's just walking around with, just like, I'll kill you, Gramps. And then she gets scared by the front door. She goes running down the hall, and what happens? She nearly kills her grandmother, who says.
Mallory: Only me.
James: Man. Graham, this episode has some incredible name pronunciation.
Cody: Do you think she's also turning into a donkey? Because that's kind of the same trajectory of those vocal notes going something in.
James: The water in Capeside, making everybody a donkey.
Cody: And it's fluoride.
James: Donkey made a frog's gay. Oh, man.
Cody: Alex Jones. He's doing okay, right?
James: Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Stella: I feel like Jen definitely redeemed, uh, herself with that scream. Yeah, good scream.
James: Best one so far. I like the Dutch angle in that. Yeah, so good. Well, I guess it's that time, isn't it?
Cody: Looks like it.
Stella: A little spooky over here.
James: Ghosts are fucking with us. Bye bye.
Mallory: Hello there. Jumping in on the commercial break to remind you to find us online. We're on social media at Freaks and Creeks Pod, where we post all sorts of great content. So come and join the conversation. We'd love to have you. We also have a website, Freaksandcreeks.com. It has a really sleek web player, which means you can listen from anywhere or share episodes directly with your friends and family. Thanks for listening and enjoy the rest of the show.
Cody: And we're back at Dawson's. Joey catches him decorating his porch with spooky pranks. When he keeps her from seeing what's behind the couch, she. Tells him she's onto his shenanigans. Pacey arrives in his family's car to pick them up, to which he embarrassingly celebrates with a few AWS. Uh, and they head to the store for sale on snacks. Oh, man, this is the most embarrassing thing Pacey's ever done.
Stella: Pace, I loved it.
James: I'm playing it right now. We got to hear this.
Stella: Don't like riding with him.
Mallory: He's a menace on the road.
James: You ain't hallucinating, Pacey's.
Cody: Got the jeep.
James: Can I hear you say yeah.
Stella: Uh.
Mallory: I am so against this.
Cody: Me too, Joe.
James: I love, um, his chimpanzee. Yelp, that he does. In the very beginning there, he like, slaps the roof of the car and then lets out this little I love it. Feels very pacey.
Cody: Did anyone get to that range?
Mallory: Did you catch Dawson talking about Pacey coming up? Did you hear catch his line here's, Pacey?
James: Oh, I did.
Mallory: I remembered that shining reference.
James: That's cool.
Mallory: Coming up in his Woody wagon.
James: Yes, that's funny. I actually didn't really think about that. I noted it very quick, but it's.
Mallory: Definitely like, here's Pacey.
James: So let's talk through the horror movie references because obviously I know you did last summer in screen we have Halloween because they're talking about that. We have Friday the 13th and we have Nightmare in Elm Street.
Mallory: Yes, there's an Elm Street record and.
James: We also have Shining. That's fine. I didn't know that one other is there anything else that we're missing so far right now?
Cody: Just wait until dark. Seems like the obvious one with them being in the house. Uh, um, I guess the Lifetime movie, hider in the House with Gary Busey. That kind of goes along with that too. Uh, uh.
Mallory: Are you afraid of the dark? When they were around the sale, did.
Cody: You spot any other ones? I think those are the core ones.
James: There's probably more. I'm sure there are some subtle ones and stuff like that. I have some thoughts on some characters that we're about to meet, but I can't think of any other direct obvious references.
Stella: I know everything about horror and that was all of them.
James: Wow. Thanks, Dallas.
Cody: To this point, though, it's funny for how much they actually talk about Friday the 13th that there doesn't really feel like there's any sort of reference to that franchise. The only thing that I can really think of is later Joey says to Pacey, you have a mom complex and Jason vore for those that are in the know. Jason isn't even the killer in the first one it says mom and then Jason becomes the killer in two through the rest of them.
Stella: I just remembered another thing.
Cody: Oh, what do you got?
Stella: Um, I think when, um, Pacey's asking Dawson who's going to dress up as he said something about, um, psycho, uh.
Mallory: The other character, Michael Myers. Michael Myers and Norman Bates mom.
James: Norman Bates goes along with the, uh, mom complex as well.
Cody: There you go.
James: Interesting. This is just loaded with references, which I appreciate. I appreciate these little nods.
Cody: I'll take a reference. Yeah. After the most reckless ride of their lives, they arrive at the convenience store. Due to Pacey hot wiring the car, joey has to stay in the vehicle to make sure it stays on while they grab salty snacks and sweet treats. Inside, they witness a domestic dispute between hetero white trash royalty Eddie and Ursula. As Eddie storms out, she introduces herself to the boys and offers to steal a bottle of wine for their party. Outside, a stranger who is clearly a serial killer named David introduces himself to Joey, playing innocent as he asks her for directions. After asking where she lives and complimenting her eyes, dawson comes back to the car and David leaves. Dawson points out the obvious that he's definitely a serial killer, but Joey defends him. Meanwhile, Paisy invites Ursula to Dawson's as Eddie shows up angrily chasing them to Pacey's car to which they lock the doors and speed off. A lot happening here.
Mallory: So much.
James: Yeah. Okay. I have many thoughts on what happens here, but the first thing I got to talk about is Ursula and Eddie. Can we talk about that for a little bit?
Mallory: Yes.
James: Okay, so as soon as one they're scary, they're terrifying. Just in the way they look, the way they interact with each other. She doesn't have eyebrows. It scares me.
Stella: She looks scary.
James: He looks scary. He looks mean.
Mallory: She looks like Ursula from The Little Mermaid. The makeup sea witch. I actually think her style was inspired by Ursula the sea witch.
James: That's interesting.
Mallory: She's wearing purple fringe, uh, leather jacket, like tentacles. She's got the high blue eye makeup just like Ursula.
Stella: She's got kind of like crazy hair.
Mallory: And like a scratchy voice. Water theme sea witch. This is Earth.
James: Damn. Um, I got a different vibe from that, but I like the idea that she's a sea witch. But I was just captivated by the name Ursula. It seems very specific to have a character named that, right. It's not like Jennifer. Most of the characters have kind of a run of the mill name. So I've gotten to researching that name Ursula to try to figure out if it was a reference to something.
Mallory: That'S the obvious reference. Beyond that, I want to hear what.
James: The origin of the name is. It like a goddess or something like that. Um, and this is what I found. I think it's quite compelling. Okay, so Ursula, um, obviously are the exact origins, but my speculative origins is Ursula is referencing the, um, Latin, uh, word for bear, uh, which would be Ursa, which is also the scientific name of the family is Ursan, I want to say. So ursa referencing bears. Ursula is like a common feminization for gendering words to make it a she bear. M. What I think is that Ursula is actually a ware bear. Oh, yeah.
Mallory: Interesting. It's like Goldilocks, because she goes into the house, she's like, kind of m like she's a bear that's entering their little circle.
James: Like the Big Bad Bear.
Mallory: Big bad bear.
James: My gay porn film that you can find online if you look very hard.
Mallory: I guess that's the wolf, not the bear. What am I thinking of?
James: You're thinking of the three bears.
Mallory: The three little bears.
James: Yes.
Mallory: That's what I was right. Goldilocks are three little bears.
James: Goldilocks and the three not the wolf bears.
Mallory: The wolf is the Red Riding Hood. Yeah.
James: Which may be Jenna's Red Riding Hood. It's okay.
Mallory: Yeah, totally.
James: You're right. It's okay.
Cody: Remember after Twilight they made, uh, like, a cool, badass version of Red Riding Hood. Johnny, um, depp. No, um I forget her name. She was in Twin Peaks to return. Um uh, ah. She was Karen and mean girls.
James: I know who you're talking about.
Stella: Amanda Seafood.
Cody: Yeah. They made, like, a badass Red Riding with her in it. Why didn't we get a Goldilocks Badass teen movie? They could have gotten fucking Grizzly Bear to do the soundtrack.
James: That would be cool.
Cody: Kind of like how Muse had their fingerprints all over that Twilight soundtrack.
Stella: Oh, yeah.
Mallory: Okay.
Stella: So, um, speaking of Twin Peaks, just felt like that was a good point to, uh, um really felt like Ursula was a David Lynch character or character from some other universe.
Mallory: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Cody: Yeah, I wrote she's definitely cut from the same clothes as Nadine Hurley or Sailor Ripley or Coco. Just like so many David Lynch characters that she seems very similar to every liner. Dialogue is so bizarre.
James: Yeah. This is what they hear when Dawson and Pacey come across them fighting in the convenience store.
Mallory: You're crazy, you know that?
James: M.
Mallory: Sure.
James: I got your face, wench.
Mallory: I got your face.
James: What is it?
Mallory: She also calls Eddie a puke.
Cody: Yeah.
Stella: I was excited about that.
Cody: Uh, are we to believe that this was supposed to be a misdirect? To make us believe that either Eddie or her are the serial killer or, like, a serial killer couple, and then David is the surprise at the end to be the serial killer?
James: I have no idea. Because I was immediately like, this guy's a serial.
Cody: Absolutely.
James: There's no fucking way he's not the lady killer. Which? The lady killer. Are you fucking serious? This is our serial killer name.
Cody: Is that the name that they gave.
Mallory: You on the new Lady Killer?
James: He's the lady killer.
Cody: Getting to the point.
James: Yeah, just seriously, what's the point? I mean, it's a, uh, red herring.
Cody: But why Eddie Anderson, Eddie nurse?
James: Being this super toxic, I guess it could be a representation for Dawson and Jen having a toxic, like, foreshadowing. Like, this could be you or something.
Mallory: I don't know.
Cody: Maybe.
Stella: It feels really random to include them in this story.
Cody: We've talked about it a million times. If you're writing something, you always want to introduce a challenge and whenever that challenge has overcome, um, that creates a new challenge.
James: Right.
Cody: And this just seems weird to like I understand they're thinking, okay, so they're going to have a samps and there's going to be spooky stuff like, what else can we do to make the situation even more interesting? It seems like adding Ursula's, like, you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel to make this like, something. It seems so weird.
Mallory: I know that I almost forgot to mention so there was a notable contrast between Pacey and Dawson's reaction to seeing this, watching this situation. I don't know if anyone caught this.
James: But I, uh, caught the audio.
Mallory: Okay. Yeah. So Pacey was wanting to say something or like, help in some way and Dawson wanted to stay back, pointing out that it's a domestic squabble. So it says a lot about both of them because Dawson coming from a household where he's witnessing his parents fight.
James: Whereas.
Mallory: I thought that was an interesting moment between them and them watching this.
James: I hadn't really contextualized it with Dawson's home life, but that's a good point but I more thought of it as just showing like, Dawson's cowardice. I don't want to say that I would get involved with this because I almost certainly would not. This does not look like a situation I want to insert myself into. Um, so I guess I kind of see where he's coming from but yeah, I just thought it was kind of strange because it seems like Ursula is not I don't know, I don't know. What would you guys do if you approach this scenario? You see that? Would you get involved? They're having a public disagreement, might talk.
Mallory: To the store attendant and maybe indirectly be like, hey, just so you know.
James: Uh, they're having a very loud violin right there.
Mallory: I don't know.
Cody: But to get to your point though, I like that their reactions are so different because this is now the second time where Pacey has been on high alert when it comes to any kind of, uh, domestic squabble like this. And he interjects himself. The earlier one being when Joey was intoxicated and, uh, the guy that looks like limb biscuit. Biscuit thor, um, limp thor man, limb biscuit is good, but that's like, another point. Does that speak to his home life? That he is usually a mediator between his parents or maybe one of his 30 brothers and his 16 sisters where this is happening a lot?
James: Right.
Cody: It does make sense for Dawson's, home life is clearly this is all he sees so of course he doesn't want to interject. He's always trying to make himself invisible with this.
James: Mhm, yeah. Interesting character. Defining, like maybe not defining, but flavor. It's giving us color in these characters and it's so quickly brushed on and we're like, okay, let's go back outside. Yeah. Mhm, let's not sit in this at all.
Stella: Um, I kind of just want to go back for a second about I don't know if this Pacey taking the car, if that says anything about his home life. Thought it was interesting that he couldn't just borrow the car.
Mallory: Right, but why did he have to hot wire?
Stella: He usually drives like that truck. So why wouldn't they let him take the truck? Right. Why wouldn't they let him take the Jeep? Why does he feel like he has to borrow steal it? What is that about?
James: My only thought, immediate first hand thought is like, isn't he 15? Why would they be letting him take his car? Because he's not even supposed to be driving.
Mallory: Maybe he doesn't have his license yet.
James: But that said, wouldn't you just steal the keys instead of hot wiring the car?
Mallory: They're still going to notice that the car is gone.
Cody: Yeah, uh, later on. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but when Pacey runs away from Dawson's house to go back home with a flashlight, there are keys in the car and he turns ignition.
Mallory: Of course.
James: Very sorry I found him then. That's funny. He could turn the car off.
Cody: That's funny.
Stella: Okay, so should we talk about Joey.
Cody: And, uh, the Joey Smith she loves David.
Mallory: This reminded me of George Costanza with a TUPE disguise. He looks like a young George Castandza.
James: That's funny, I'll take it.
Cody: Uh, yeah, they look familiar. George Castanza with a two pay.
James: Why? I get it, you're young and naive. But really, this dude is clearly something when he says, oh, I'm trying to get to Providence and she's like, Providence, you are very lost. Why wouldn't you be like, huh?
Cody: Uh, are they trying to tell us that Joey is not very aware? Like, what are they trying to say with us? That she's easily gullible to men that complement her?
James: M, maybe.
Cody: By the way, your eyes are beautiful, or whatever you say. Thanks so much.
Stella: I don't know, like, I definitely felt like she was being naive, but there were like a couple moments where she does look kind of creeped out by him. She's talking about the directions and he's just like staring at her. She looks kind of like taken aback. So I don't know. I wonder yes. I don't know.
Cody: But she defends them immediately. I know.
Stella: Yeah.
Mallory: Uh, I'll talk about it later. That Dawson is kind of her safe space. So right now she's in Pacey's car, which she can't turn it off. She's in an unsafe space by herself and they left her out there. Like, why couldn't Pacey be the one to like, stay in his car and Joey go in with Dawson? So then later, uh, that's kind of how I'm reading this scene, I guess.
James: M, that's a good point.
Mallory: Just made that connection.
Stella: But yeah, um, I did feel like this guy was so creepy. I felt so sincerely frightened by him.
Cody: He looked like the Zodiac. M. Like when you see the artist renditions of what Victims of the Zodiac said he looks like? He looks exactly like that guy George Cassandz with two base.
James: I like the way that they were lighting him on the outside of the car window because they had placed some kind of, like, key light above him to get that little shine on his glasses that I recognized from suspect, uh, drawings. Because whenever they're wearing glasses, there's always like, that shine that's going across them. Right. So it felt like you're looking at a crime scene drawing or not a crime scene drawing. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. It was interesting and it was very creative. I thought it had to have been lighting. It couldn't have been naturally like that. They had to get that out of his glasses in some way.
Mallory: Mhm definitely.
James: Cool.
Mallory: She told them to take Elm Street.
Cody: Yeah.
Mallory: You just take Elm, um street, which is a street right here, and you take it a few miles until you hit the highway.
James: And we've got that slow, dark music pad building underneath it to give us that tense feeling as he's just staring at her. I love the idea that you just take Elm Street for a few, uh, miles until you get to the highway. Yeah. Okay, that's easy.
Cody: Do you know if this is a reference to another horror?
James: I think it's just shoehorning going down Elm Street.
Cody: Street.
James: Nightmare on Elm Street. That's the only thing I can think of.
Mallory: Yeah, that's what I thought.
James: But.
Cody: I know I love Silence of the Lambs and I try to interject it as much as possible, but it would have been so much cooler if they had a sequence where instead of, like, someone trying to load up their car and ask for Joey's help or something.
James: I would have much rather this seance happen in an abandoned barn.
Cody: Absolutely.
James: But that would have been too spooky for Dawson's Creek.
Cody: Cool.
James: I love that. The, uh, killer David calls, uh, Dawson sport, do you need help? He's like, no, sport.
Stella: Oh my gosh.
James: Yeah.
Stella: That was so creepy too. He was so annoyed by a dog.
James: Yeah. It was so unsettling. Yes.
Cody: There's something very specific about a serial killer being, uh, condescending, where it's like this level of like, I know so much more about the darkness of this world than you, sport.
James: I'm not afraid to kill you. Where you play by society's rules, it.
Cody: Puts the lotion on the skin. Yes.
Mallory: Did you get Dustin saying it's the 90s, you got to be careful.
James: Yeah, I got it right here. He gets in the car and he.
Cody: Serial killers are typically white males in their 20s.
James: Hello? It's the 90s.
Cody: You got to be careful.
James: Hello? Hello.
Cody: God, I don't miss that talk to the hand because I don't want to hear it. Stella, you're kind of like a true crime head. Is that what true crime fans are called? Just heads. Yeah. Uh, so you're ahead. Uh, was the particular high point in murders and serial killings? Because I always associate that kind of.
Stella: Like the yeah, I also would say like seventy S and eighty s when it was really intense. But yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think Green River was maybe late eighty s. I don't know.
Cody: Uh, why say it's the 90s? You got to be careful because I don't know.
James: It's the 90s, baby. Um, we got bad stuff happening, baby.
Mallory: Maybe it was supposed to be like tongue in cheek. It's the 90s. There's actually not a lot of this happening in real life.
James: I think it's like times you can't be lock your door at night. You live in the city.
Mallory: Yeah.
Stella: I feel like that was when maybe people were like there was more research, um, on serial killers and people were kind of becoming more aware of, like, technology also.
Mallory: Yeah.
Cody: Uh, that makes sense. I guess what was the one of the biggest shows in the 90s is like, Unsolved Mysteries. So you have a lot of people that are paranoid because we're watching that and the news became more heightened with violence.
Mallory: Mhm.
James: I think there definitely were big serial killers in the, like, high profile crime. And killing was probably more documented then probably any point before because media wasn't really talking about that kind of obviously murder always sold. But I think maybe that's what we're supposed to take away from that. But wasn't Jeffrey. Yeah, I just Googled this. Jeffrey Dahmer was caught in 91. So he would have been very in the zeitgeist for the probably one of those things that people would have been like, don't go out at night and just trust any stranger you meet. Because there's people like Jeffrey Dahmer out there. M, david.
Mallory: Stranger danger.
James: Yeah, stranger danger.
Stella: Uh, any audio from Ursula in the convenience store? There was so much with her.
Cody: You could have capped everything that she says.
Mallory: How much louder could she have yelled that she's going to score them bottles? You want me to score you bottle? Um, store attendance. Just like.
Cody: If I was that person behind the register and I saw Ursula and she was just screaming, I'd be.
James: Like, I don't give a fuck. I love that. When she gives the bottle of wine to Paisy, he says this excellent kibbernett saw Vic NA, my favorite.
Cody: You know, my buddy is having it so good.
James: Absolutely. It feels very on brand for Paisy to be like, oh, great, a girl at the convenience store. Do you want to come over?
Cody: Totally.
James: Uh, maybe I can fuck you later.
Mallory: This scene escalated so quickly. That got so intense so quickly with Eddie chasing after that. Yeah. Wild.
Cody: Again. I enjoyed this episode, but a lot of it doesn't make any sense. So Eddie and her screaming, they have their squabble. Eddie leaves. Where does he go for five minutes just to wait to go back to scream, get in the car.
James: He smokes a cigarette, just like chiefs it down hard around the corner. He's just like and then he comes around the corner and he's all nicotine out. He's very angry and he sees that shocking to PBR.
Cody: Yeah.
James: And Pete, the music too.
Stella: That part was just like, what is happening?
James: It was heightening very hard, which I appreciate.
Cody: Back at Jen's, Cliff arrives to pick her up. When Graham opens the door, she lusts after him while proclaiming his galactic accolades. Jen tells him that Graham's admiration isn't a great sign. Cliff finally reveals that their date plans are to go to Dawson. Seance, every ex partner's ultimate fantasy.
James: Oh man, isn't it? I would love to go to your ex's place for, uh, dinner sometime. That would just be so much fun to just get to hang out with your ex, especially when you don't know that it's your current date ex. Especially when you don't know it's going to happen. That just seems like a dream. And I love that. Later. It's not now, but Cliff calls it out when he's talking to Dawson. He's like, isn't this cool?
Cody: They really dumbed him down, this episode. He has bad.
James: So bad. Um, so again, I said earlier that Graham has some great name pronunciations. This is one of them.
Mallory: Are you Clifford Elliot?
Cody: Hello ma'am. Cliff Elliot. Are you Cliff Elliott?
Stella: Love her so much. I'm loving her more and more.
Cody: Yeah, I don't I still remember that she's a racist.
James: Yeah, that's true.
Cody: True.
James: But I have a theory that maybe because her voice is always shaking like this, I have a theory that she was a road construction worker for a long time and she had to operate the, um, Pneumatic hammer thing. And she also really loves JFK. And she's a part time JFK impersonator, which has been all ruined from this, of course, because now she does.
Mallory: I love how Dan is like it's like a turn off for her. That grandfather Cliff.
Cody: I don't blame her.
James: No, he sucks.
Mallory: Um, outfit change for Jen. So she is now wearing, uh, a dark, rosy pink short sleeve turtleneck for the remainder of the evening. So getting a little bit into color psychology. Uh, she's feeling more vulnerable. This is a more vulnerable version of the sweater she was wearing earlier, which was long sleeve, dark red. This one is pink, short sleeve, but still a turtleneck. So I think she's been spooked a few times leading up to this evening. And so now we're going into the evening and she's feeling more vulnerable.
James: I love that. Um, good read.
Cody: Later at Dawson's, the kids watch Ursula and inspect the house proclaiming. She loves to be scared and needs a drink. Jen corners Dawson over her experiences that day to which he denies having any part. Ursula finds a fake severed head in the fridge who adores it with screams and laughs as dawson preps the living room. Cliff gives a, uh, stoic Dawson his admiration for the dating advice. And around the corner, Jen complains to Joey about the whole dated Dawson sitch where she again believes Dawson to be the puppet master to her misery. Which is cut short when a fake corpse falls out of the closet. As one does, of course.
James: How does he have these? I guess just from his movies. Right. He's always making props and things like that. But, uh, like a corpse and all these little spirit of Halloween didn't exist yet, did it?
Stella: Maybe party city.
Cody: Yeah, Party City was a big one for us growing up. They always had cool masks and props and stuff. But, again, are we to believe that he's making a lot of these in their ex props from his previous films?
Mallory: I think so.
Cody: Okay.
Mallory: Yeah.
James: He's very talented then.
Cody: Quite the collection.
Stella: Uh, what's your face, Ursula? Um, how could you forget? Sorry. Um, it says that the wine isn't cold and needs.
Mallory: I don't understand.
Stella: Yeah, that's something that people do.
Mallory: I think. In the 90s, maybe. I've heard of people liking red wine cold, but not, like putting ice in it. Just like putting it some people put red wine in the fridge, but putting m ice in it and then you're, like, watering it down. I don't know. Very strange.
Cody: White trash love cold wine.
James: Mhm sorry. If anybody out there likes cold red wine we don't think you're right. White trash.
Cody: I do. I stand by what I believe.
James: Uh, she says this, which really confused me.
Mallory: Oh, it's all right. I love to be scared. My boyfriend Eddie scares the goop out of me.
Cody: I can imagine.
James: The Goop?
Mallory: The Goop?
Cody: Yeah, the product from, uh this is.
James: Just some subtle, uh, covert advertisement. It's cross promotion campaign.
Cody: Like Chapstick.
James: Yeah. Wow. She was very early. She's been working on that for a long time. I didn't know that.
Cody: I love that shot of her just inspecting the living room and all the kids leaning, uh, over to the side from the doorway to watch her.
James: So cute.
Stella: Yeah, there's another one later where we get a fun group shot of them. But I thought I really enjoyed those.
James: Yeah. So listen to this scream. Ursula is incredible.
Mallory: It's not cold, so we'll have to add some mic.
James: And then she starts laughing hysterically after she touches it. Yeah, but what a scream. Goddamn, she is a scream queen.
Cody: Did anyone check out her credits?
James: I m can do it right now.
Cody: Yeah, she's something. IMDb trivia no one should ever trust it because it's user generated. So it's probably like 99% of the time it lies. But something I did see on there is that, uh I think it was her sister ended, uh, up marrying our titular hero, Dawson, the actress's real life sister. So I wonder if they met through this episode.
Mallory: Huh.
Cody: But this is IMDb. Where lies flourish.
Stella: Got to find out.
James: I'm looking at her credits right now and, um, no obvious horror credits that I'm seeing. Nothing noteworthy. But she was in Zoolander as one of Mugatu's models. Yeah. That's amazing.
Cody: So hot right now.
Stella: She is, um, unhinged.
James: Yeah, she's great.
Cody: I still don't really know what the tone of Dawson's Creek is supposed to be because sometimes it feels realistic, but every other side character is camp as hell. Yeah. It's like they're coming from this different dimension. It's like Pink Flamingos. Or like a Twin Peaks. It's so weird.
Mallory: Pink Flamingo. Divine.
Cody: Yeah. Personal and makeup.
James: Yeah.
Cody: There you go.
James: Interesting. Yeah.
Cody: Love Divine. I wonder if Divine will ever yeah, Divine was dead by this point, right?
Mallory: I don't know. I'm, um, not sure.
Cody: Okay.
James: How old do you think Ursula is? 30s. Why the fuck is she hanging out with some 15 year old kids who she knows are underage? Because she had to steal a bottle of wine for them.
Cody: White trash. I'm telling you, M, she was trying.
James: To escape Eddie, but she's not.
Mallory: I mean, in that moment. Yeah.
James: It's that cycle, mhm, that we love to see on TV.
Mallory: So when Dawson is setting up the seance, uh, Cliff says, this is the most original first date I can think of.
Cody: Oh my God.
Stella: Yeah.
James: HM.
Cody: These five episodes being out of order is driving me insane.
Stella: The only other thing I could think of is like, if they didn't count the carnival date as a date because it was like a double date maybe.
James: But it was a date. Yeah, it was originally a date. Yeah.
Cody: It's so weird how there was so much more continuity with Tomorrow, who gets brought up later in this episode from Joey. But it's like they had that set in stone and then everything just fell apart after that. I wonder what happened.
James: That was the one block that they really had planned. And then they're like, we can shoot these other eight episodes that will punch in around it. Yeah. On that same note of Cliff saying this is a great first date, in the next scene, it's Jen confiding and Joey about how crazy this is. Did you forget that we hate each other right now?
Cody: Oh, sure.
James: What the fuck are you confiding in me? I thought we really weren't getting along.
Cody: The show does not know when they're friends or not.
Mallory: No. And then they get a, uh, scare together. Falls out of classic scares them together. So they have this moment where they're like experiencing this scare together. Uh, it's interesting.
Cody: Yes.
James: They actually have a good scream. I capped it. Of course I did, because, uh, it's a good screen from Jen and Joey.
Stella: No, he's not that inventive.
Mallory: This is definitely the work of Dawson.
Cody: Kind of wish this is a video podcast because every single time we play a clip of Screaming Stella jumps 20ft.
Mallory: Clutching her stress ball.
James: Yes.
Cody: The. Seance begins. And while Ursula claims to channel spirits and beckon their call, pacey and the gang give her flak. Pacey comes up with the bright idea of channeling the victims of the serial killer, which leads to a conversation about the killer's modus operandi. Once again stalking phone calls and heart removal. Cliff jumps into an urban legend about a snake that pulled out the organs of a baby. To everyone's disgust, Ursula that jumps into resetting the night's events as though it too, is an urban legend, insinuating that she is deranged, giving them all the absolute creeps. And just then, the lights cut out and everyone screams.
Mallory: I love that Ursula kicked off the seans because what? This is so random. But she was.
James: Let's take a listen.
Stella: Spirits, are you with us?
Cody: Uh, spirits, come to us.
James: First of all, you like a spirit goddess.
Mallory: Well, I shuttle from time to time. I have a couple of sister spirits that occupy my body occasionally.
James: Deion and LaToya. Okay, thank you. Please explain this.
Mallory: I think this is a reference to the Psychic Friends Network. Dion, um, Warwick and LaToya Jackson, both the Lane infomercial for Psychic Friends Network. In the 90s. There are clips on YouTube that you can look up. That's a good one.
James: Oh, my God. Yeah. I used to love those late night, 1 hour, two hour infomercials that would play for online psychics. I guess it would be phone psychics and shit like that.
Cody: Either Girls Gone wild or psychics like.
James: Ms. Cleo. God damn, that takes me back. Wow.
Stella: Um, I love Cliff telling his spooky story and everyone just being like, home.
James: Yeah, he can't read the room. I was in the mood. And then there was blood everywhere and everybody was throwing up and the door was incredible. And I was like, dude, what the fuck?
Cody: Did you cap his story?
James: No, but so funny.
Cody: M my favorite part of that whole thing is just after everyone's like, oh, that's disgusting. Jen just going, Poor baby. Um, okay.
Stella: Jesus. I feel like he's trying so hard.
Cody: For the listeners that are refusing to watch Dawson's Creek. Come on, give it a watch. But his story gets so specific about a snake that goes into a baby's body that when the mom pulls the snake out of the mouth of a baby, it pulls out all of the baby's organs along with it. And no one likes that. But I loved it.
James: It was great.
Cody: I thought it was a good story.
James: I thought it was funny. I liked the reactions around the table. Who was liking it and who wasn't liking it. Pacey was loving it.
Mallory: As a kid, I read, uh, children's book called Blueberries for Sal and I thought he was going to launch into this story because it's like, the bear comes up and it's kind of like a little scary in the story. And it turned into this, like, grotesque story about babies inside being ripped out. But yeah, I thought of blueberries for.
James: Sal for a second. I know Cliff probably wouldn't know this, but Joey's got like a, uh, very young nephew that she has to be taking care of right now. So this baby inside ripping out story probably like extra in poor taste right now.
Cody: Or it could be cathartic because she hates that baby.
James: That's true.
Cody: It's like keeping her up every night.
James: Where can I get through a snake? Um, right now? Cliff, do you know do you think.
Cody: We'Ll ever see that baby again? No.
Stella: I seriously wonder yeah. If we're ever going to see that baby.
James: It's like a child.
Mallory: We have a toddler.
Cody: I wonder when's the last time we saw it?
James: Right after they were born?
Mallory: Yes. Uh, when Pacey put him to baby to sleep.
James: Make me cry.
Mallory: How could you forget?
Cody: I could never forget.
James: So when Ursula was talking about the knife that she keeps in her purse and how she likes to slit a guy's throat just to see how far the blood spray, she's aware bear. Okay. The knife in her purse is really the bear in her skin, her body that comes out and she likes to watch that blood squirt. Uh.
Stella: Yeah.
Cody: Yikes.
Stella: I wonder what was she anticipating that reaction?
James: I think she just wanted to see them all square. Yeah, I think she's like, oh, we're all telling scary stories. I got one.
Cody: I'm not going to exactly defend Ursula, but later she says that she at one point wanted to be an actor and maybe this is just she's having some fun. Just in the same way that Dawson is having fun with his shenanigans. That she likes to creep people out in the same way that a comedian says that they're addicted to hearing the laughs of their audience. I can imagine someone who is a trickster loves the screams just as much.
Mallory: I, uh, was saying when they all separate later, she's the one that goes with Dawson. So she's kind of interesting.
James: Parallel.
Cody: There we go. That's why she's here.
Mallory: She started the seance. If she wasn't there, Dawson would be the ones during the sands.
James: They're meant to be together.
Stella: She does. I mean, I kind of thought she looked a little bit like, um, what's her face from walking down the bar. Carol.
James: Ah.
Stella: Curly hair.
James: She kills a bunch of zombies too.
Cody: Then wear bear.
James: Oh, that'd be fun. Where bear versus zombies movie?
Cody: I'd watch it. The Scifi Channel is just well, on.
James: That note, we're going to go respond, uh, to this email we just got from the Scifi Channel about making ware. Bears versus zombies. The movie.
Cody: Cho ching.
James: See on the other side.
Cody: I don't want to wait for you. The number one freaks and Creeks Adawson's Creek podcast fan to rate, review and subscribe to the show. I really don't want to wait and you can make me the happiest idiot in Capeside High. If you did those three simple tasks rating five stars, now that's something pal. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Wait, what's that? A review. What a sweet gesture. And wow, I can't believe it. You subscribed. Now you have truly won me over. Now our lives don't have to be over. We're back. As everyone blames the denying Dawson for cutting the power, jen gets up to call the power company revealing the electricity has been cut as well as the phone line has been cut. Dawson tells them to split up. Bad idea. Joey and Pacey to lock the doors, jen and Cliff to get the flashlights from the upstairs closet and Ursula is to go with Dawson to inspect the fuse box.
James: This is where the episode really takes a, ah, turn and everything goes off.
Cody: The rails just as planned.
James: Just as planned.
Mallory: The classic everyone separates.
Cody: Yes. Uh, do you know if the fans have a term to describe the core friendship? The core for the core four.
Mallory: I think that's people to call it core four. That's what I heard. I don't know. Yes.
Cody: It's for Buffy. They call them like the Scooby gang. Okay, uh, so whenever I want to describe this bunch, it's like the crew. The gang.
James: Yes.
Mallory: I think it's core four because there are people that enter later seasons but they're the core four. The original core four.
James: I think we call them the Scooby Gang.
Mallory: Yeah, we can think of our own name.
Cody: Josh Whedon.
James: Yeah, I don't really have much to say here. This is such a weird scene. It was nice to get Dawson and, um, I don't know, I like that it got Dawson and Ursula together because I was worried it was going to be Pacey and Ursula together and just get like, creepy lettering. At least we didn't get that. That's the one silver lining there.
Cody: Seems like, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that Mike White episodes typically don't have horny pacey as a kid.
James: That's true. Uh, they just have goofy scamp Pacey.
Cody: While Pacey and Joey are, uh, locking up the doors, joey gives him flak for his taste in older women being absolutely cursed. And Pacey throws it back at her, sighting her lustful infatuation with Dawson. A scary sound interrupts them and when they inspect the stairs, an enormous swinging axe contraption comes down, almost cutting them to shreds. So weird that they never reference this again.
Mallory: How did Dawson set this up? And it's like not going and then it is did he release it or is it like on a timer?
Cody: Is there a trip wire?
James: Right, yeah, um, I noticed this little interaction between Pacey and Joey. What about your taste, Joey? You're going to go to your grave pining away for your best friend? A guy who's so oblivious he doesn't have a clue that you lust after morning, noon and night?
Mallory: I don't lust after him.
James: Right. Denial. Denial. Well, that's the spooky axe, but Stella.
Cody: You can come down now. She jumped up 30ft into the air.
James: She was straight through the roof. Yes. He is so jealous.
Cody: Oh, yeah, totally.
James: You don't think so?
Mallory: Well, I don't know. Because if what we're saying, like we were talking about how this might have been filmed before the carnival. Why would he be jealous if he hasn't developed those feelings that happened at the carnival on the carnival episode?
Cody: I think this is because it's a part of the show bible for these characters. Eventually we know Pacey will have a thing for her.
Mallory: Yeah. And they're always bickering. Uh, so far we always see them bickering. So it makes sense with them again, kind of bickering and fighting.
Cody: But then again, it doesn't make any fucking sense because Pacey says that Dawson doesn't know that she's, um, infatuated him. Even though the last episode have been.
James: About that the last several since, uh, the very least since the, uh, fucking Breakfast Club episode where it was clearly laid out there.
Mallory: Yeah, right.
Stella: Yeah. And also like no reference to the Jimmy and Pacey kiss.
Mallory: Right.
James: Well, she doesn't remember that one. I still think she thinks either she was too drunk or in the moment she thought it was Dawson.
Mallory: Wait, Joey and Pacey kiss?
Stella: Yes. I'm curious to know if Dawson knows.
Cody: Well, he does, because Pacey admitted it last episode when they were in the video store.
Mallory: Pacey said no, he does not quite. He said, I think Dawson it could have been interpreted by Dawson as a joke because he says he did, but then he goes into like, oh, yeah. And it was like and then we did this and this and this.
James: And then she invited me in.
Mallory: Yeah, true.
Stella: Yeah. I don't think Dawson knows.
Mallory: I don't know. I feel it go either way.
James: Yes. I think if I were Dawson, I would be like, oh, so you tried and she rebuffed you. Which is true. Except that he actually kissed her. So I wonder what he actually thinks.
Cody: I feel like I'm reading a book out of order. It's so frustrating.
James: Yeah. I feel like, um, when they mailed off the scripts to the executives for them to stamp them up for approval because that's what you have to do, right?
Cody: Go to use big stamps.
James: Yeah. They just give you big stamps on there and they're like, good job. Um, but I think when they did that and they mailed them back after they got the big stamp on it, they accidentally got a couple of the scenes mixed up and put them in different episodes.
Cody: Happens all the time.
James: Those big producers. They don't know what they're doing.
Cody: I love also hear that Joey specifically says this could end up worse than, uh, Tammy. Because I guess the only real logical conclusion you could come with is like, what could be worse than him being with Tammy and she gets fired and they both end up in prison.
James: Murder. Uh, yeah, getting killed.
Cody: As Jen and Cliff head to the upstairs hallway closet, they complain about Ursula as well as what they expect to find awaiting them. When they find the flashlights, they discover a mirror with you're going to die tonight written and possibly blood. And Jen brings up Dawson's other pranks that day. Cliff asks her to contemplate that maybe, just maybe, it is actually a serial killer stalking her.
James: Man, Cliff is so scary.
Cody: Take a listen to this. Cliff scared me.
James: Sorry.
Cody: Uh, it was pretty scary.
James: Stella, are you okay?
Stella: I'll recover. He's the scariest of them all.
James: So Dawson wrote this in his own no. So Cliff wrote this in Dawson's closet mirror.
Cody: This is a Cliff move, right? Again, very confusing. Uh, about when Cliff is being able to do these things.
James: Mhm.
Cody: Is there to be a twist that Cliff has a double and they're working congruently. To form these tricks? I don't know.
James: That's interesting. I did have some thoughts along those lines later, so maybe I'll try to weave that into a theory I've got.
Cody: Working the spoilers for the latest screen, but I guess there's other screens too where there are um, two killers, not just one. So maybe we have someone that has yet to be revealed who is working with Cliff. What was her name that we haven't seen her since episode two?
James: Nelly.
Cody: Nelly. This could be Nelly.
Mallory: She wasn't in the film class either. In this episode she's gone.
James: Well, sorry.
Stella: It's okay, I was just going to say I liked it when, uh, they were talking about Ursula and Cliff was like, yeah, she's a real trip.
James: She's crazy, man.
Mallory: What?
Stella: Uh, has a knife in her bags.
James: Yeah. So earlier Joey says that she has a contradicting personality, right? And now what you're saying about maybe Cliff has a double. So what I was thinking is maybe Joey has a contradicting personality because she's.
Cody: A clone with Joey or Jen.
James: Joey says that she has a contradicting personality so Joey is a clone and maybe it's not just Joey, it's also Cliff because he's got a double Cliff that's doing all this other stuff. So maybe there's a cloning program here.
Cody: In Capeside, one of your good old fashioned cloning program.
James: It was big in the things that.
Cody: I am surprised about. Uh, we get two pranks in a row here. The with swinging axe. I'm surprised that we didn't get them being like, oh, this is a styrofoam axe. Uh, second one is with you're going to die tonight written. You would think that Jen would just be like, oh, raspberry jam, um, something along those lines instead of just leaving it. Maybe this is a serial killer.
James: Right?
Cody: Why are you giving a whiff?
James: Yes, this is not bloody, but she's so scared.
Cody: She's very scared. Too scared to sniff.
James: No, that's my, uh, life's motto.
Stella: You know what they say if you're.
Cody: Too scared to sniff, don't try to whiff.
James: Exactly.
Stella: That's the tattoo we're going to get.
Cody: That's the freaking freak motto. True. At, uh, the fuse box, Ursula spooks Dawson by pulling out a scar from her bag, to which Ursula jokes she wouldn't stab anyone, but would rather shoot someone in the head. She explains her complicated relationship with Eddie as well as his extremely violent history. She then brings up the vibe she got from him and Joey, saying that his infatuation with Jen is on the wrong path. They too, are interrupted by a scary sound and they leave to inspect.
James: Yes, they do.
Cody: This is the most frightening conversation I've ever heard between any two people in any form of medium.
James: Why is it so scary?
Cody: Well, she was going to m murder him earlier. She talked about the knife, and then she talked about Eddie's extremely violent past and um, with other people. Not her. What does she say again? Eddie just like beat someone within an inch.
James: Right here. Let's take a listen.
Mallory: He's been in the pen.
James: What for?
Mallory: Assaulting. Battery. He took this guy's head and shoved it into a wall. The guy's eyeball was dangling from its socket. He's a monster. He's my monster.
Stella: Hashtag my monster. Hashtag not my monster.
James: What more proof do you fucking doubters need? Eddie is a monster.
Cody: People.
James: He's not just a person. He is a monster. They exist. Vampires are real. Swamp things are real. Monsters are real. Ware bears are real. Eddie is a monster.
Mallory: And Ursula is a sea witch.
James: She's a monster. Yes, exactly.
Cody: I'll take what I can get.
James: Don't add me.
Cody: This is good evidence.
James: Thank you.
Stella: I want to talk about theories around about the fuse box. I don't know if people want to talk about the conversation more.
Cody: It's a good one. I mean, he did say that he planned having the lights cut out at a certain time. He said he cut the lights.
James: Okay.
Stella: But he says that the fuse box is like, jammed. Like someone messed with it.
James: What happened?
Stella: Do we think that the lady killer?
Mallory: Yeah, that's what we were maybe supposed to feel like. It could have been a lady killer.
James: Spoiler alert anybody who didn't listen. Um, fast forward just to skip the rest of the episode. Um, but they do say that the lady killer was found lurking around in a residential neighborhood in Capeside, which could be this residential neighborhood. He could have jammed the fuse box.
Mallory: And maybe then he heard that there was a group of people and turned around to the next house.
James: Maybe he wrote for someone alone in blood. Well, actually, he did. Cliff would have probably been scared too.
Stella: Yeah, I don't know. I was pretty focused on this. But Eddie it would be weird if it was Eddie. Why would you do that if he was just trying to get her slow? It seems like maybe I don't know, maybe he followed them home.
James: And there's that peeper shot that's happening in there, which I took to be Eddie because Eddie later the next couple of scenes is like breaking down the doors. But maybe that peeper shot isn't Eddie but peeper lady killer.
Stella: Yes, that's what I thought. And then maybe he saw Eddie and then was like, oh, this, uh, is chaotic.
Cody: Yeah, okay.
Mallory: Eddie, he probably heard that there was a group of people or something, saw Eddie, heard people talking and turned around.
James: I wish that I caught the audio because, um, when they give that peeper shot, he's making noises. He's like, isn't that right?
Stella: Yes. It's like deep breathing, which is the.
Cody: Classic serial killer go to. If, uh, we have any serial killer listeners out there, please write us in and tell us. Do you, um, do a deep breath when you're staring at your victims? Let us know.
James: Is that like, how you get in the zone?
Cody: Auto zone brought to you by uh, yeah. I think there's really good filmic evidence too, that he, uh, does get scared by other male presence.
James: Definitely.
Cody: When he saw Dawson, that's when he dipped. So he sees Eddie and goes, this is already taken care of.
James: You called him sport too.
Cody: Looks like this port got it covered. Yeah, it's all yourSPORT, I guess. There are two POV shots. We get the one of outside the garage looking in the window and then the sound that they hear isn't coming from outside, is coming from inside the house as being not anything or that could have been Eddie, maybe, I don't know. But then the other one is when Ursula and Pacey are outside, we get a POV shot that's from very far away. But then Eddie pops out of the bushes that are really close. So it has to be a different viewpoint.
Stella: I thought it was exciting.
James: It excites me. So, um, this is a cold shot. I haven't scared her once tonight.
Cody: I've been scaring Joey.
Mallory: Yeah, the brunette, cute, feisty. The two of you will work out.
James: So just telling us right there.
Mallory: HM?
James: They're going to work out outside.
Mallory: M character looking in and I guess.
Cody: They were framed by a window. Like that one episode.
James: It is like a TV box.
Stella: Oh, also, I hated when Ursula calls Dawson sweetie. I hate when people do that.
Cody: Ah, pretty condescending.
Stella: Yeah, so condescending.
James: I like sport when, um, she says that when he compliments her on being a good actress. And she's like, well, once upon a time I wanted to go to Hollywood.
Mallory: Hollywood?
Cody: That exposition dump that she gives us? So good.
James: We're like Hollywood. To my right. Got her.
Cody: Dawson and Ursula makes their way back inside, finding Pacey. Jen and Cliff hunkering down in the corner. They tell Dawson Joey left on her own to find Dawson when he walks down the hall and opens a closet door. Joey's lifeless corpse falls out. As Dawson pleads for her to talk to her, as Dawson pleads for her to talk to him, a masked figure approaches Dawson with a knife to which he screams, please say you capped that screen.
James: Oh, you know I did. You know I did. I couldn't not. Let's, um, take a listen. There's actually two versions of this screen, so we'll take a listen to the first one.
Cody: That's true. Oh my God.
James: Joey. Oh, man.
Cody: Framing shit.
James: Yeah. That's terrifying. Oh my God, Joey.
Cody: Did anyone here think Joey was actually murdered and this is the end of her character?
Mallory: No, but I love the blood. She clearly went and found Dawson's stash of fake blood and did this whole thing before he got back.
James: And Jen's idea.
Cody: Yeah.
James: How interesting that Jen's idea involved killing Joey.
Mallory: Uh, because Joey is the threat to Jen.
Cody: Um, also, I want to give acting props to Joey, the character, because she went with a brave choice of keeping her eyes open. Very open.
James: Wide open. Eyes wide open. Eyes wide shut.
Cody: Kubrick. Of course. AZ, those are directors.
James: Illuminati, what do you guys think about the scary mask?
Mallory: Like a skull, right? Skeleton mask.
James: Like a Jason mask with an eyeball on it. It's like a hockey mask.
Mallory: That was the mask that Dawson was wearing under the bed. But, uh, Jim was wearing like a.
James: Skeleton mask for some reason.
Cody: But you're right, it was like a skelly mask.
James: Yeah, it was like a very low budget skeleton mask. Um, very scary.
Cody: Extremely frightening.
James: That's what the lady killer looks like. Ghosts. Yeah.
Stella: I don't know why Dawson was like, so scared.
Cody: Uh, his nerves have to be firing after being with Ursula for the last.
Mallory: Ten or so years and then his best friend is all bloody.
Cody: I'm surprised that he believed Joey was actually dead for that brief moment.
James: Yeah, well, she is a great actress. We know this. That's why he keeps her in all of his movies, presumably. And we notice and he, um, also is, uh, subconsciously in love with her so he can't help but have this emotional reaction to her. I wish. We got a little slow zoom on Jen's face as she realizes she'll never hold a candle to Joey.
Cody: That M would have made sense.
James: On that note, um, we're going to go, I don't know, probably pretend we're dead. See if we can scare each other.
Cody: Yeah.
Stella: Okay.
Cody: Let's turn the lights off.
James: Uh, bye. Hey, everybody, james here. Just wanting to thank you for listening yet again. It is what keeps us going. Now, if you are enjoying the show, if you followed us online, if you've subscribed already, it's not the end of the world. There's one more thing you can do. You can tell a friend. Call them up. I don't care if you haven't talked to them in months, years maybe they're a friend from elementary school. Call them. Tell them I've got a great podcast and you're going to love it. It's called freaksandcreeeks. Go to their website, freaksandcreeks.com. Find them online at freaksandcreekspod.
Cody: I don't care.
James: I don't care what you do. Just tell them to come and check out the podcast. They're going to love it. And then you're going to be the cool friend who gave them a great recommendation. And isn't that amazing? Thank you so much for listening. Enjoy the rest of the episode and go tell your friends about this show.
Cody: M and we're back. And Dawson continued screaming, but the gang reveals it was just a group led prank. Joey is in fact, not dead. Jen says it was her idea to get back at Dawson, to which he once again denies having any part and runs upstairs. Jen follows, asking him to swear that he isn't the stalker. When he promises, she asks why he wouldn't prank her and he admits to excluding her and helping Cliff as an attempt to get over her. He touches her face and says he doesn't like the way things are between them. And when he leans in for a smooch, she says it's not a good idea and backs away. She tells him she doesn't want to be excluded anymore and he agrees. Now that's a scream.
James: That's the second version of the screen.
Cody: A lot more solid. One note. It's, uh, like someone trying to harmonize.
James: Uh, yeah, this is very uncomfying.
Cody: The best part about all of this is basically Dawson going, no, whatever, you suck. And then him running upstairs to cry.
Mallory: By a little kid like, I told.
Cody: You I wasn't doing it.
James: Good mom.
Cody: M and Jen god damn it, I want to like Jen, but then she falls for this shit.
James: She runs out there.
Stella: Mhm but in this episode, I feel like Jen throughout the whole thing, the vibe is that she's missing Dawson and that she's wanting Dawson.
Mallory: Definitely.
Stella: I don't know, it feels like we're moving quickly towards them getting back together.
Mallory: We're ramping up for a, uh, reunion between them.
Cody: I wish they gave me a reason to think that that's a good idea. Yeah. So far I just find him to be the puppet master and I don't like it.
James: Yeah, I'll be shocked if the finale isn't them getting back together.
Cody: All roads lead there. Can we talk about the absolutely fucking bonkers tonal shift that this episode takes with them going upstairs and having this conversation in the slow song starts and romantic because everything was spooked over up until this point, right?
Stella: Yeah, it was really funny. Like, right when that shift happened, I was like, oh, this isn't scary anymore.
Mallory: Totally.
Cody: We're back. It's just so obnoxious that they like I mean, we've said it over and over again once the four two stars back with everything else but the fact that they couldn't even lean completely into their own things that they wanted to do. Breaking, uh, the immersion just to go back to this bullshit.
Mallory: It's almost like how when Joey changed the channel to the Jerry Maguire, this was like the shift in this episode where it turned the channel. It's like this kind of similar moment of melodrama.
Cody: I'll take it.
Stella: I mean, I already kind um, of said this earlier, but, um, I don't really understand why Jen is so surprised that he didn't partake in spooking her since in the last episode, the last time we see them is her saying that she doesn't want to be friends. She retracts her offer of being friends, essentially. And if we're going with that, uh, that is like the order of things, then it would make sense that Dawson would not include her because that would be weird if he was just pranking her when they weren't friends. Right?
Cody: Yeah.
James: This show, it doesn't know what it's doing.
Cody: I cannot sit and hear this blatant blasphemy that he's just all innocent. I just think he's sick and twisted and this was like his master plan is coming to fruition. He almost got a smooch out of this.
James: Yeah, he almost got her back.
Mallory: So does he actually admit in the scene that he was holding back?
James: Yeah.
Mallory: Okay.
Cody: He does. He says that he was purposely doing it because in his version he's like, well, I'm just trying to get over you. So I thought if I didn't include you with the scares and I gave Cliff advice that, uh, this would help me get over you, that's different.
Mallory: I feel like that's a little different.
Cody: But that's what he's telling her.
Mallory: Yeah, that's true.
James: Okay, but m we know.
Mallory: Yeah.
Stella: What a mystery.
James: He's a very bad boy.
Cody: While Ursula and Pacey are outside, eddie jump scares them by bursting through the screen door. They lock the front door behind them and Ursula proclaims that Pacey is her new man who will protect her and that, uh, she'll call the police. Dawson admits to cutting the phone line and when Eddie runs away from the front door, dawson proclaims he's looking for their way in. The gang run to lock all the doors in the house and they hear Eddie climbing the ladder to Dawson's bedroom. They realize the window is open and he's already inside. Back downstairs, Eddie attempts to strangle Pacey, but Joey beats him repeatedly in the head with a frank.
James: Yeah.
Cody: Pan. Ursula comes to his aid and they quickly make up and leave the house. Okay, first thing, this reminds me of the room with the hidoggy scene. Oh, hi doggie. Oh, hey, Johnny. I didn't know it was you. I don't ride roses.
Mallory: Please.
Stella: Um, okay, couple of things. One, it just seems so weird that Eddie now emerges. You would think that, like, okay, he followed them right after because he was so pissed. But then like, uh, he was just like hanging out, waiting for the right why did he wait so long to approach the house? That bothers me. Secondly, they're like, Quick, we need to lock the doors. But it's like, didn't we all just do that? Remember earlier when they were like, oh, we should split up and lock the door?
Cody: That was a PC and Joey, uh, that was their plan, but then they got distracted by the giant swinging axe.
Stella: You don't think they locked the door, though?
Cody: No, they both have goldfish memories. Okay, I'm distracted. Look at that.
James: My favorite thing about that is they're like, everybody go lock the house. We got to make sure everybody's locked in. Pacey, go next door. Okay, so do I unlock the door then and then just leave and it's unlocked? Uh, so then why are we locked? I, uh, love that. Which is also, of course, how Eddie gets in through the door that just fucking opened. What the fuck, you idiots.
Cody: Very silly.
Stella: It was infuriating oh, wait, no.
James: The.
Cody: Door that Pacey was opening was like the dividing door from the mud room or whatever.
James: Yeah, like a screened in porch.
Cody: I don't know why they have that door there. It's so strange. But, uh, like, Eddie was already in the house.
Mallory: No, they thought he was and they thought he claimed the ladder, but then he didn't. He came in the door. Right. And they were upstairs through that front.
James: Door because then he breaks the window on that front door, which they then when they leave, they slam it more glass falls down and stuff like that. But yeah, it just is, um, a horror movie. We're all scared. Faulty logic. Wow.
Mallory: When Eddie is strangling Pacey, joey is the one to save him. Just like he saved Joey at ah, the party.
James: We all agree Joey definitely kills this guy, right?
Mallory: Oh, yeah, you can hear no, there was no sound of that paint.
Cody: She was clearly not hitting anything.
Mallory: She didn't even add a sound effect.
James: No, it was very funny.
Mallory: Which is funny.
James: I'm glad they didn't because it would be like.
Cody: This is the second instance of Joey beating someone near death after she beat up, what's, uh, his face in the cafeteria.
James: Yeah, whatever the fuck his name was.
Stella: How about that? Yeah, I thought it was really funny. She's just going ham on those guys.
James: Nobody touches my M, man.
Cody: I wonder if in that character bible that we had referenced that there was a section for Joey to say, oh, and she's also extremely violent. Right. She is willing to beat someone with an inch of their life.
James: Right. I like that even I'm, um, winding back just a little bit here. But even in this moment of terror, where everybody is slightly fearing for their life doesn't stop Pacey from being Pacey. You know, I may look young, but I have been with older women before. Just no reception whatsoever. She's like, uh, okay.
Cody: Yeah, literal crickets. That's pretty funny.
James: And that's when then, of course, Eddie.
Cody: Rushes them from the woods. I hate how rushed this Eddie coming into the house sequence was. I, uh, feel like they wasted a lot of time with earlier pranks and things like that because there is a fun suspense to the fact that Eddie is climbing the house and doing all the scary stuff they could have done, like some real alien stuff and had them being isolated from each other. You don't know where Eddie is, but this is like a ten second scene.
James: I wonder if there were some edit notes that it was too dark because it really does feel like they were heading to having the serial killer come into the home and then something Eddie comes in and actually say it feels like that's where it was going. Or. Uh. Somebody comes in and saves them but then they kind of had to scramble in the last minute and that's why we get this really rushed hack job edit that doesn't really make very much sense when you're looking at all the pieces at the end of this and going like. Wait. Okay.
Cody: So why talk about Lynching for this entire thing to end with them just hugging and leaving the house? Come by the bowling alley. That's right, work. Bye.
Mallory: Okay, bye.
Cody: I feel like the script is already building up to some kind of confrontation between Eddie and David, like something cool like that by saying, oh, Eddie beat that man to death and ended up in prison so he'd be a great hero turn for him. I was just outside and I want to apologize to you, but I was chain smoking cigarettes. I didn't know what to say. And then I saw this creep looking through the window so that's why I had to beat him to death with a frying pan. Mike White, let us know what was that your original plan?
Mallory: It would have been so much better.
James: Would have been if only cliff walks.
Cody: Jen home and he finally admits to taking, uh, Dawson's advice as inspiration for being her stalker and prankster that day. She tells him that she's not looking for a boyfriend right now and that in the future Cliff should just be himself. As a quick aside, we see an extremely scared Pacey run into his car and drive off. Back at Jen's, Cliff asks to kiss Jen, but before she can answer, he just goes for it. They're interrupted by Graham, who apologizes for interrupting. When they're on their own again, they abandon her and Cliff acknowledges he has a big crush on her. She kisses him back and goes inside before hitting the sack, grahams gives her a piece of mail and when Jen opens a letter, it makes a startling little fart sound, accompanied by a note from Dawson wishing her a happy Friday the 13th. Jen puts the contraption back together and gives it to Grams, which startles her as well.
Stella: Um, just now I came up with a theory that Dawson is a time traveler.
Mallory: Okay. Yeah.
Stella: I feel like it's like he has somehow managed to do all of these things. Like it's not possible. Like when did he get this thing in the mail to her, right?
Mallory: That was so quick. It was like, wait, what?
Cody: Dawson is Santa Claus.
Mallory: Okay?
James: He does like to wear red.
Cody: He puts little treats in people's homes all in one night. M. That's all I got.
James: Okay, like time traveling Santa, spending time.
Stella: Oh no. Yeah, go for it.
James: When Graham, uh, walks in on Cliff and Jen, she really likes Cliff.
Mallory: She likes that. Clifford elliot.
Cody: Good stock.
Mallory: Yeah, he's a church boy.
Cody: I really like that Clifford Elliot.
James: Elliot, what is the logic behind asking if I can kiss you? If I am going to, then not. Wait.
Cody: This is a stretch. We've talked about horror homage in one of my favorite films of all time, sleepaway Camp, which I made you all watch on Happy Birthday Me last year. Uh, there's that part where Angela uh, uh, gets smooched by that boy and he asks her permission. Before she can say yes, he just does it anyway, which shocks her.
James: Do m you think Leapaway cam for.
Cody: Reference could have been it might be.
Stella: A stretch, like white. Let us know.
James: Let us know. On the subject of references, I like that. That's a very good one. I, um, was curious thanks for humoring me. I, um, was curious because when they say he's inside or whatever, winding back sorry, just a little bit to when Eddie when they thought he came in the elevator, the ladder in the Dawson's room. That's a reference to something, isn't it?
Mallory: The latter.
James: It's inside now. It got inside.
Cody: When a stranger call, the call is coming from inside the house.
James: Okay? I swear, uh, that delivery feels like it's cut and paste from something else and I just can't think of what it is. Listeners, if you know what it is, let us know. Or if you miss any other references.
Mallory: Uh, when Cliff is walking down home, he says, quote, yeah, I guess that's pretty stupid, huh?
James: Huh?
Mallory: Me trying to be original by copying somebody else, which I thought was cute because it was like this is like copying a lot of horror movies. M. It was like a heavy metal way of pointing out that he's copying horror with this.
James: Also him just being self deprecating. I'm never going to be original. Fuck, I'm an idiot. I just keep biting other things.
Cody: Porklift. What a dummy.
James: He's a dumb ass.
Cody: Yes. Again, though, like we've jumping off at that point, though, him asking permission and then kissing her. That was gross. And then again, my frustration with Jen not really understanding what's going through her mind is the fact that after he did that gross, weird thing, she kisses him back. Which I found very surprising, very confusing.
Stella: Uh, she doesn't know what she wants.
Mallory: She doesn't know what she wants.
James: Yeah, no she doesn't. It's a good point.
Mallory: Yeah, she misses Dawson. She misses a romantic relationship so maybe she's just like okay.
James: Uh, I don't know. I'm starting to think Jen is um, like some kind of android or a cyborg that is programmed because all she does is talk about how much she loves and Mrs. Dawson, how great of a guy. So what if she is just a science experiment that really the shadow government cloning people who run Capeside. Dawson is their golden child. He's going to go places. He's going to be the next Stephen Spielberg, we all know it. And what does he really need to get there? Well, he needs this woman who just loves him but also needs distance. So they created Jenbot 3000 or something.
Cody: Jen Bot.
James: Yes.
Cody: I'll take it.
Stella: I love, um, PC getting in his car.
James: I just thought it was very cute, very funny.
Cody: Like seeing him scared.
Mallory: Scared cats.
Stella: A little goofball.
James: He's a little stinker. I mean, we say it every week but he's just a little stinker.
Cody: He's so much better as a character when he's being a goof and a silly man. It's so much better than him being Mr. Hornyman. I hate it when he's Mr. Hornyman. Love him when he's mr. Goofy man.
James: Horny pacey is not good.
Cody: Goofy pacey very good. Again, like we mentioned, he turns that car on with one quick little change.
Mallory: I've seen him doing the hot wire and it's taking too long. He's trying to get out of there.
James: And then Joey pounds on the window and stare at him.
Stella: Um, that would be cute.
James: But instead we just get that little like slapstick moment and it's done.
Cody: Kind of an awkward edit too to insert that sequence right in the middle of Jen and Cliff going back to.
James: Her house and why they added that resolution on that. But we're not getting resolution on anybody else getting that. Like we're not seeing Joey then go paddle. We're not seeing everybody wrap up their night. It's just a strange thing. I mean, it's funny, that's why again.
Cody: With the frustration of this being, um, simultaneously serialized and episodic with some of these things, uh, the biggest reset button of them all is the fact that there's a lot of property damage to Dawson's house. Cut the phone line, like all this shit. And then he's going to have to explain that to his parents. I guarantee they will never mention this ever yet.
Mallory: Oh no.
James: And he destroys the screen door and the front glass door. Yeah, there's also property damage inside the entry to their house. Like shit gets broken. There's probably a bloody frying pan, a crater in the floor.
Cody: There's human brains everywhere.
James: It looks like a crime scene.
Stella: Um, can anyone explain to me why the safety pin is scary?
James: Safety pin?
Stella: The safety pin in the envelope.
Mallory: Okay, yes. I didn't understand how that was as a kid. This was a joke that I experienced this contraption, and I think it can be in different forms, but for me, it was like something my family I grew up going to sunrise in the high desert. And so you can buy these little envelopes that are, uh, rattlesnake eggs, quote rattlesnake eggs. So when you open the envelope, it goes, yeah. So that's what that was. It's that contraption.
Cody: But how does it work?
Mallory: It's a rubber band. There's, uh, a wire, and you wind the rubber band, um, between the wire, and then you have to put it in an envelope to keep it like that. So when you open the envelope, it unwinds. But there was no context to it in this situation. It wasn't like, this is an envelope of Ralph snake eggs. Oh, there's actually Ralph snake that came out of the egg.
Stella: When you open it, I still don't understand. There's a red string.
Mallory: That's a rubber band. You twist it around the wire uh huh. And then you put it in something, like, flat, so it stays twisted, pressed. And when you open it, it unwinds really fast. So it's like a buzz.
Cody: Kind of like the sound of the rubber band hitting the envelope is creating a yeah.
Mallory: Exactly. For me, it made sense because I know exactly what it was.
James: And it makes you go like this when it happens.
Cody: Such a loud sound. Big old suit. When she pulled that device out, I felt like I was watching Star Trek. I'm like, what am I looking at? It looked like a triangle with the red thing.
Stella: Uh, I was so confused. I was like, is this some reference that I just don't understand?
Cody: Do you have to wind it back.
Mallory: Up someday and bring yeah, you have to wind it back up, but I feel like you have to wind it back up. But it's never the same as, like, whoever made it and put it in packaged it is.
James: So I don't know. I receive my mom sends me on my birthday every year. She sends me happy birthday.
Cody: Thank you.
James: It's still my birthday. Um, listeners, please send me this. But she sends me these little tiny cakes in these little boxes, which, um, is really cute. I can't remember the company. If I can, I will drop it in here. It is blank. Um, what's fun about it is when you open the box, kind of like what just happened here in this, there's always, like, some kind of little surprise that happens. And one of them, when I opened the box, it was almost like a Pop Goes the Weasel type thing, and all of these butterflies burst out, and they're flying around. In this last one, though, when I opened it, um, it exploded confetti all over the place. And then there was this very similar contraption that just kind of went, well.
Mallory: The butterflies in the last month were the same thing. And there are a bunch of them.
James: You just counterwind this rubber band and then once it's no longer being held it wants to unwind itself naturally.
Cody: So it's just like the wonders of science. It's really cool. In Dawson's room he and Joy go over the days events when they discussed Joey's fake death. They both become very emotional as they agree that if any of them had actually died they would both be very sad. Joey wants to forget the day. Then as she pulls back the covers it's revealed that Dawson had placed many fake insects all over the bed. They laugh. But when they turn on the television, the news report reveals that the serial killer has been caught and it's none other than you guessed it David the creepy weirdo from the convenience store.
James: I mean, shocking everybody. Absolutely. I'm sure not a single person saw that coming out there.
Cody: Why is it news to both of them that either one of them would be right upset if the other had died? Even regardless of them having feelings for each other, they've been best friends their entire life. Why is that news?
Mallory: I uh, don't understand.
Stella: I loved how, uh, happy Joey looks when Dawson says that he would be absolutely mortified. Her eyes are like swelling up with.
Cody: Tears of joy, really from little old Meredith. I remember thinking that way when I was twelve. Being like that is the ultimate form of caring about someone. That they died. If I died, do you think someone would care? It's very strange. It's weird but they're old as hell. I don't know if it's because we have 45 year olds playing 15 year olds but this conversation is so weird and awkward.
James: It's very strange. I don't understand, um, why she is completely flabbergasted by it. It doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.
Cody: Like what a shock.
Stella: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It is really bizarre to watch but at the same time it's like yes, I do remember kind of thinking like that and I wonder maybe they just don't express their appreciation and love for each other as friends.
Cody: All they do is tickle each other.
Mallory: Yeah, that's right.
James: Uh, I think what's more insane than all of what we have just seen is that it's then followed up by.
Mallory: You want to stay over and he knew she would because he put the.
Cody: Bugs in the bed or he did that for himself.
James: Yeah.
Mallory: Going back for a moment to the car scene where Joey is by herself, um, and talking to David the killer. Dawson is the only one that witnesses her that he kind of saves her in that moment and he's the only one that witnesses her talking to David. He's also there with her when they discover that he's a serial killer. So I feel like in this moment Dawson represents safety for Joey and she even says, can we just go to sleep and breach in the world as a safe and happy place to live.
Cody: Yeah. Was this their coming of age moment? This rotation with death?
James: It could very well be. What an episode?
Stella: What is that? An um episode?
James: Yeah. I mean, do we have anything else to say on this one before we get into our ratings?
Stella: There were no et.
James: Dolls.
Cody: Yeah. Oh, my God.
Mallory: Only the shark.
Cody: Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Okay, we might not have gotten the actual doll at all, but we did get a haggard, ah, leathery, um, disgusting creature that said, Ellie, it in this.
James: Episode.
Cody: Was Et.
James: Racist? Is Graham's et.
Cody: Uh, so many questions.
James: Spielberg. Yeah, please let us know. All right, well, ratings then. Yeah.
Cody: I'm coming in hot with a four out of five. Here's the thing. I had a lot of fun this episode. I would say this is my favorite episode of the season. Uh, it was pretty fun. Enjoyable. But as I've already complained about numerous times in this current episode, I just am upset with the episode order feeling wonky. I feel like relationships, this is just another fucking endless cycle of these relationships and nothing is, um, ever coming to fruition. And I feel like we're hitting the same notes over and over and over and over and over and over again. But at the very least, they're doing something with those themes and having a very genre specific fun thing with it instead of just the same monotonous high school drama over and over. So I'll take it. Um, that's about it. I'm just extremely pissed also about Jen, uh, because I love Jen, but this is getting extremely old, extremely.
James: Fast. I agree.
Cody: Four out of five still four out of five.
Mallory: Yeah, I'm going to go with a four and a half. Um, very much enjoyed this. I feel like I'm officially ready for Spooky season now.
Cody: Yeah.
James: What's?
Mallory: Um, all the seats?
James: Yeah.
Cody: Should we have a bonus episode where we do a seance?
Mallory: That's fun. It was refreshing to be like I was watching a different show for a little bit. Um, yeah, I don't know. I had fun. I don't know what else to say about it. Yeah.
James: 4.5.
Stella: I am also giving it a four out of five. Um, I thought it was just like a fun.
James: Shift.
Stella: Um, loved Ursula being a little weirdo. Loved Dawson and all his fun pranks.
James: Yeah.
Stella: I guess for me and Mal, it feeling like a different vibe from Dawson. It was refreshing.
James: Yeah.
Stella: Um, I think that's about it.
James: Yeah.
Stella: Uh, tired of the Jen not, like, sticking to her guns about trying to be single and do her own thing. Also, not a lot of fun.
Mallory: Music sounds, though.
Stella: Good sound effect.
Cody: Absolutely. Yeah. Score was really good this episode. They're doing some fun stuff.
James: I gave it a 4.15 out of five. Of course, for any new listeners out there, I have a very hyper scientific ratings calculator that has multiple variables that I rate for every episode. This, um, one, I think might be the highest I've given so far. But it's definitely up there. It doesn't reflect that this is my favorite episode so far. I absolutely loved this episode. Um, everything you guys mentioned, totally agree. But what I really liked most of all was the way it was shot. It was shot so differently. It really felt unique within Dawson's Creek. Like you were saying, Matt felt like we were watching a different show. And frankly, uh, I like that show better. That, uh, said though, you know, still love this show, still very excited for it. Everybody has mentioned the things that are frustrating about it, but goddamn, can we please just decide to, uh, remember the things that we do in our show again? I think we'll get that naturally in season two. I think it's just a product of the way season one was shot, but it's getting kind of painful at this point. Like you said, Cody, how many times are we going to have the same conversation? It's too damn many times. But still 4.3. Just make it a four out of five.
Cody: Wouldn't it be crazy if this just never ended? How many seasons of the show? There's five, six never ending. Like the, uh, series finale, they're just like, I don't.
James: Know. What if season two is whoa, okay, hold on here. What if Dawson's Creek is actually Groundhog's Day and every season is the same here over and over again until they finally get it right and then they can move on with their life? But not for Dawson. He's been repeating this whole thing over and over again.
Cody: If that were to actually happen, then I would have to say the show makes sense now.
James: Man, that's a cool show.
Cody: My recommendation this week is Jeanette Mccurney's memoir. I'm glad my mom died. Uh, for those not in the know, she was a Nickelodeon child actor who co starred in the early 2000s kids sitcoms I, Carly and Sam and Cat, who has since quit acting. The book details her extreme abuse she endured by her narcissistic mother, who forced her to act, which developed into various eating and mental health disorders, as well as addiction and substance abuse. Her writing is clear and distinct, with a clever point of view and stylized pros that evolves as the book progresses through childhood, at once admiring everything about her mom and eventually powering through the hard realization that she was a victim. It's also smartly, made up of very short, one to two page chapters of small, memorable experiences that lend to the feeling of how these small things build up over time and taken as a whole, rather than singular parts, can completely shape a person beyond the abuse she endured. It's fascinating to hear her experiences of rising into kids stardom as well as the way Nickelodeon treated her. It's also really funny. Despite the extremely triggering content, beyond her childhood stardom, um, I think anyone who has had any sort of similar experience can connect with her journey and find a bit of catharsis.
James: It's very good. Yeah, you've talked to us about it and it sounds so interesting and so good. I have no frame of reference for who she is, but I don't think it really matters. It seems like it's kind of a story that transcends icarly.
Cody: Right.
James: It doesn't matter. That's just one small sliver of the greater story.
Cody: Definitely. When I, Carly, was on Nickelodeon, I was too old for it, but I was aware of it. And I just find myself being always intrigued about child stars in Hollywood, specifically because it's very rare that you see someone come out of that being healthy and ah, okay. And especially when you find situations where it's the parents that force their children to do this because that's even more toxic and horrible. So, having known about Jeanette's history, because she's been very open about it ever since early ended and things like that, I was very interested in reading this book when she announced that she's going to be doing it. Before the book was even released, she had a one woman show in La, also called I'm Glad My Mom Died, where she did performance theater of detailing probably large sections of this book. It's just until now that she's actually put in a book form that, um, everyone can read about it more thoroughly. It's very fascinating. Even if you aren't interested in icarly or child stardom or something, if you, um, are at all interested in, uh, similar themes of parents that put their kids through this kind of stuff, if you had a narcissistic parent or anything like that, I mean, you can connect with us. It's very fascinating and very well written. It's very cool. I'm really happy that she has come out of that and she's doing good.
Stella: Now.
Mallory: Okay, I am going to recommend an album from my favorite musician, Regina Specter. And yet, to put it in terms that you all might understand, regina Specter is my king, gives my fist. I tend to keep my m obsession a little bit more contained, but it's definitely there. I will make everyone listen to Regina Specter and you will like it. Okay. Anyway, so a little bit about Regina Spektor. Um, she's a Russian American singer, songwriter and pianist. Uh, she started playing classical piano at the age of seven. Her father, um, also exposed her to a lot of rock and roll music as a youth. Her family is Jewish and they were admitted to the United States as refugees, um, settling in the Bronx in 1989 when she was nine and a half, where she continued her classical training and explored hip hop, rock and punk. Anyway, um, this is the 20th anniversary of her first album, which is called titled 1111. She, um, just rereleased it along with a double LP of never before released songs that her father recorded during her earliest shows in New York City. And her father also just happened to pass away recently. So it was, like, a very meaningful thing for her to release this. Um, anyway, she was heavily influenced by blues and jazz at the time of, uh, its recording, so it differs from her later albums, which is why I love it so much. Um, and she also just released a brand new album called Home Before and after, uh, which is also great. They're very different. I recommend everyone to listen to her very early stuff and then her later stuff because it's a fun adventure. Um, yeah, so, uh, there's a quote from Pitchfork that says, a great Regina spektor song, unfurls, like a short story with the boring parts excised. So, her songs are self described as fictional. Um, they tend to contain vivid imagery, and some are full on character studies, kind of like short stories or vignettes, but to song. Uh, she often includes literary illusions and recurring themes of love, death, religion and city life.
Cody: So I love Regina. She's great, she's amazing.
Mallory: I see her live, like, three times.
Cody: I always get frustrated when people talk about the best, um, songwriters when it comes to storytelling because people are always like, Bob Dylan. I mean, I love Bob Dylan, but women are never included in that mix. And I feel like Regina Specter came out of a time where a bunch of other musicians were just making catchy pop songs, and she was the only one that was like, oh, I'm actually writing really heavy stuff. That, um, is good. Like, all of her early work is incredible. Amazing.
Mallory: Yeah, I can't say enough about it.
James: Yeah, I talk a lot about storytelling and music, and Regina Specter is incredible at storytelling through music. Like you already said, she just embodies and tells these stories about these characters that are so fresh and original and unique to her. She's got such a specific, um, voice and it's amazing to see it continue on. Uh, I kind of think of her as, like, the modern Billy Joel, which might be a really weird reference because, um, Billy Joel did that a lot, too. He was a big storyteller. All of his music was like, these different little characters that would then spin out into a whole song that kind of studied them. And it feels like that's what Regina Specter does. Um, but better in a lot of ways. Incredible. That's.
Cody: Awesome.
Stella: All right, I have two recommendations. Uh, the first both are TV shows. The first is the resort. Um, it is an eight episode show that just finished, um, this last week. Um, uh, available on Peacock. Um, it is a fun, like, dark comedy mystery where, um, a couple is on vacation at a resort celebrating their 10th anniversary, and they're drawn into a mystery that has taken. Place 15 years before. Um, there's a lot of really fun people in it. Uh, including William Jackson Harper, who is in the Good Place. Kristen Milady. I don't know if that's how you say her name. Um um ben. Uh, do you remember his last name? Ben, the ah guy from high maintenance who I love. I don't know if anyone else watches that, but, um, he was, uh, one of the executive producers on the show. And it also has a role in the show. Um skyler.
James: Tissondo.
Stella: Don't know if that's how you say his name, but he was in Smart. Uh, uh, what's the movie? Get smart.
James: House.
Cody: I have no idea what you're talking about.
Stella: The movie with our friends. Beanie Feldstein.
James: Smart.
Mallory: Cool.
James: Smart.
Cody: Uh, book smart.
Stella: Book smart. Thank you. He loved, um, him in that movie. I don't know if anyone knows who I'm talking about, but, um, he's also in the show. Anyways, it's a really fun cast. It's like a fun story. I don't know.
Cody: I think it's important to say that it's from the creator of Palm, uh, Springs, which is a big hit.
Mallory: I love that one.
Cody: Fun time travel.
Stella: And Mr.
Cody: Robot, uh, the executive producer and showrunner of Mr. Robot named Male was also an executive producer on this. Oh, cool.
Stella: Yeah, it's a fun time. Um I really enjoyed it. Overall, Cody was not satisfied.
Cody: No, I thought it was good. I just didn't love it.
Stella: Yeah, I think it's worth watching. I think it's a good time. Me too. Okay. Secondly, real quick, a, ah, show called Bad Sisters, it's available on Apple TV. Um, four episodes have aired as of now. It's September 3. Um, I have in my head kind of like, conceptualized it as, um, does that sound called Goodbye, Earl from the Dixie Chicks or the Chicks?
James: Yeah.
Stella: Um, that's like what it is, essentially. Um, but not totally. Uh, basically husband is murdered. He's like an awful guy. The show starts with him. Like, he's dead, it's the funeral. And then you see kind of like, how he's impacted this family. Um, and, like, these sisters who hate him so much and the way that he treats their sister, who he's married to and then, like, slowly plotting to kill him. Um, yeah, it's an Irish show. Um, I think it's set in Dublin. Um, and yeah, I'm really enjoying it so far. Um, for me, familiar actresses in it. I think one of the women from Bad Education is in it. A few other people that I recognized are in it, but a lot of people that I don't know.
Cody: Um, ah, because it's on Apple TV. Plus, do you know if it's an original program from them or they just the American distributor?
Stella: Um, so it is based on, ah, another series called Clan, but I'm not sure where. Let's see. It's not an American show. I, um, think it might be from, like, Finland or something. Yeah.
James: Okay, cool.
Stella: That's all I got for you.
James: Cool. That's sound fun. I really like the, uh, bad sisters. That sounds very interesting. I haven't even heard of that one. So that sounds cool. Don't have Apple TV Plus, though. So I guess I'll just go stare at a wall. All right, I've got two recommendations as well. I'll try to make it a little bit quick. Uh, so my first one is Immortality. It's a video game. It is incredible. I'm just going to give you a very, very brief little summary of this game. In this game, uh, it's an FMV game, which M is basically like a film or motion picture. That's a video game. You're looking at real actors who have shot real scenes. And that is how you're playing the game. You're not like, actually controlling a character. You're watching footage and interacting with it, sometimes controlling the dialogue or whatever. In this game, however, the story is, there is this famous actress back in the 60s, Marissa Marcel. She was very promising. She was booked for all of these big roles. Think like a Marilyn Monroe type, but all of these movies that she's getting booked for never get released. And she just disappears from the face of the earth. Nobody knows what happens to her. Cue our video game. We are going to try to figure out what happened to this character because somebody happened to find a collection of all of this hidden film. And you get to watch all of the movies that she's been in. Uh, there's a really fun mechanic where basically, as you're watching the footage, you can stop it at any point in time. And then you put your cursor over it. And you then search all of the other film clips for this same object. So if somebody's, like, for example, hands the character a rose, freeze it. I'm going to look and see, where have these roses been before?
Mallory: Will you accept this rose?
James: Will you accept this rose? It's very interesting. It's very unique. And I don't want to give anything away, but there is a wild twist to this game that will, um, it's best just explored and learned for yourself. But if you're a fan of David Lynch, if you are a fan of Twin Peaks, if you're a fan of kind of extreme, very, uh, psychedelic or surreal elements, you owe it to yourself to play this game. Um, and if you do play it, play it with a controller. It's essential to the experience. I m won't give anything away beyond that. Um, so Immortality, it's, uh, free. If you are on Xbox and are a game pass member, you can play it for free. But it's on just about anything. And I actually just read something about how it's on Netflix. You may not know about this, but Netflix is starting a gaming entity. It's, uh, going to be called, like, Netflix gaming. And they're bringing immortality to netflix gaming, which means if you are somebody who automatically already pays for Netflix, you will have access to this game to play on your phone, I believe. Which seems like it'd be strange, but I think it would work. So check it out.
Cody: Immortali, when you say that it's essential to play with a controller, does, uh, that mean that if you have Netflix and a game system, you should choose to play it on a game system because that'd be a richer experience?
James: I would recommend it. Unless you have something like a backbone, which is like a controller for your phone, which gives you that same experience. Um, the reason why is because haptics or the vibration of the controller, the feedback that the controller gives you while you're playing, it's essential to understanding the way this game is played. So, yeah, check it out. Incredible game.
Mallory: Very cool.
Stella: Sounds very cool.
James: Yeah. Now, you have heard me talk about King Gizzard a lot. I know it's a funny joke, it's all for the memes and stuff, but I actually want to put the jokes aside for a second and say right now, King Gizzard just announced that they are releasing three albums next month in October. Uh, that would mean that in this year of 2022, king Gizzard has released four studio albums, including their bootlegs, which are like live albums or unofficial releases. It's actually closer to seven albums just this year. Um, and goddamn it, this is just one of the best bands that's out there. And I really would love it if people would go and take a listen. So, like I said, they're releasing three albums in October. 1 of the albums is actually something that they've been working on since 2017. And there's an interesting tie into the year in 2017 with King Gizzard. In that year, they released five studio albums plus more unofficial albums. That was one of the most prolific years of the band. And it also is what kind of really launched the GIZ verse, which is kind of this big overarching storyline that all of the albums play in with interacting characters and all this kind of musical collection. There is an album that I'm going to recommend. The album is called Murder of the Universe. It is a tie in, I think, to this episode because it's kind of like a horror album. It is a fantastic storytelling experience from start to finish. There are three chapters of stories for you to find within this album. But the album details humanities slow descent into being what we call what they call altered beings, but basically just leads digital creatures, people, humans who exist exclusively in the digital world, which is where we find ourselves kind of as a people right now, right? Social media, everything is online. That's where we're slowly getting dragged deeper into this digital hole. It's a fantastic storytelling experience. It's a fantastic listening experience. There's incredible music. It's a transcendental experience. For me. I hope it's a transcendental experience for the people out there. I hope you guys can hear just how passionate I am about this album. It is the best album that you could ever listen to.
Stella: Bomb coffin, Dang.
Mallory: Someone quick.
Stella: Get James tickets to see Ingen in Portland, please.
James: They're playing october 4.
Mallory: One.
James: Please. They're playing October 4 in Portland. It's been sold out for over a year. Uh, if any listeners out there want to gift me with, uh, or actually gift the four of us with four tickets, I'll cry. So if you want that you've already heard me cry once when I realized how cool Pace he is. Imagine what will happen when I see GIZ.
Cody: Uh, I heard also that they might do an LP release for their bonaruzet. Is that true?
James: It is. That's one of the bootlegs that was released. I have preordered two copies of it.
Cody: Oh, damn.
James: One Bluray and one LP.
Cody: They have it filmed a rough shot.
James: The entire festival, so you can actually watch it right now on YouTube. It's free.
Stella: All right, everyone, um, listen in for next time where we will be talking about Pretty Woman, where Joey and Pacey both enter in to a local beauty pageant.
James: Oh, God, yes.
Stella: We cannot wait.
Cody: Is Pretty Woman the alternate title or.
Mallory: Is it the beauty contest? Pretty Woman M is the movie reference title.
James: Interesting.
Cody: So annoying.
James: I wonder what Pacey's talent is going to be.
Mallory: I'm so curious.
Stella: We've heard that Joey sings.
James: Yeah. Thank you for spoiling us, people.
Cody: I'm just going to put my money on juggling.
Mallory: Yeah, he's like a clown, kind of.
James: Yeah, that's a really good bet.
Cody: But like, oh, do I want to double down on this bet? I'm going to say he juggles. And do you know what he juggles? Chainsaws. Bowling pins. Oh, yes, that's what lanky arms, baby man.
James: Yeah, that's a good one. I was going to say like, Hackesack mhm. You guys want to see me do Hecky.
Stella: Tech?
Cody: Yes.
James: No. Well, does anybody have any final thoughts? Goddamn, this is a long episode, people. Thank you for listening.
Cody: Probably the longest episode we've ever done.
James: We're pushing on 3 hours right now.
Cody: Is there anything else about King you want to talk about?
James: Oh, God, so much.
Cody: Um, I'm surprised you didn't recommend Goose.
Stella: I honestly have so many wrecks I couldn't decide.
Mallory: But Goose going to make a list and then ask for it next time, so I do.
James: Yeah, I think I'm just going to start a website that's just called James's Recommendations, and it's just like, probably just going to say, king gets rid of the lizard wizard. But King, uh, is well, I guess on that note, it's time for us to leave. So thank you all so much for listening. Um, if you've enjoyed the episode, subscribe to our show.
Cody: We'd love it.
James: I bet you already are. But you know what else you can do. You can email us. We love our emails. Go ahead and email us at show@freaksincreeks.com. You can find us on our Instagram at freaksandcreekspod. You can visit our website, which is freaksandcreeks.com. And you know what else you can do? You, you can have a great week.
Cody: Or however long it's going to be.
James: Until we next to you. Because, uh, until next time.
Stella: Bye.