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The official podcast from the team at BookFunnel, hosted by Jack Shilkaitis, Kelli Tanzi, and Emma Alisyn, featuring guest interviews, self-publishing industry discussions, and tips for using BookFunnel to build an author business.
0:00: OK, so book talk is crazy.
0:04: that is the best way to put that is, it is crazy.
0:07: You're going to get.
0:09: A mix of things.
0:11: You are gonna have the book talkers who will go crazy for your book and scan it and put it out everywhere that they can, make multiple posts about it, and you'll have the opposite side of that, who are like, yeah, that's not for me, and they'll just skip right past you, or you have the ones that'll let you know, hey, this is awful, this is trash, you shouldn't even be an author, which is terrible.
0:33: Hey folks, welcome to the Book Funnel podcast where authors get real-world advice on writing, publishing, and growing a career on their own terms.
0:41: Whether you're just starting out or you're deep into your author journey, we're here to help you build your readership, boost your book sales, and connect with your audience.
0:50: Each episode, we aim to bring you insights from authors, experts, and industry insiders who've been there, done that.
0:56: And then some.
0:57: My name is Jack.
0:58: I am our lead author sports specialist here at Book Funnel, and I am joined today by my co-host, Stephanie, a new name and face here on the Book Funnel podcast, one of the newest members of the Book Funnel Author sport team.
1:10: So give Stephanie a big welcome here in the comments.
1:13: And we are joined today by Casey Belk, who is a book talker and member of the A book talk community, a creator on the TikTok platform.
1:24: Welcome, Casey.
1:25: Good to have you here.
1:26: For those in the audience who are like a book talker, like here on the Book Funnel podcast, tell us a little bit about what you do, and how you got involved in Book Talk.
1:38: Well, I create bookish content.
1:41: I do book reviews.
1:43: I showcase the different books that I have read or received or just saw in whichever bookstore I happen to be in in that time.
1:52: I also do indie author interviews and spotlights, which have been a lot of fun.
2:00: that's, that's, that's what I spend my time doing on bookstore.
2:03: And, and what got you, what got you, I, I imagine you probably have been an avid reader.
2:09: For some time, did you stumble upon book talk first, and then decided, hey, I wanna make this kind of content, or, I mean, I imagine that's probably how it would work.
2:19: Yes, so you're, you're correct.
2:21: I've been an avid reader since I can remember, and I stumbled upon Book talk because I was not a person who went onto TikTok as soon as it became a thing.
2:34: I actually avoided it as much as possible.
2:38: but when I did finally dip my toes in there, I mainly was in there for the funny videos, and then whose video was it?
2:47: I think it was, there's another book talker who does reviews, and I happened to come across her video.
2:54: And I was like, oh well, that was, that was really informative.
2:57: I kind of want to go pick up these books now.
2:58: And I ended up picking up one and read it, and I was describing it to my husband, and him and my son were laughing at me at the way I was describing this book, and I was like, well, OK, well, I'm just talking about the book.
3:10: And he was like, OK, so the way you described that was great, and I really think you should consider doing this whole book talk thing.
3:17: And I was like, yeah, no, I'm not going to do that.
3:19: So here I am, I'm almost a year later.
3:22: Doing the talk.
3:24: I love it.
3:25: He's, it's, he's to blame.
3:26: It's his fault.
3:27: We can blame him.
3:28: He is to blame.
3:29: Yes, I love it.
3:31: I love it.
3:32: And so I guess for authors who haven't, because I know you mentioned like, maybe the hesitancy to to join TikTok as a platform.
3:43: TikTok is talked.
3:46: about a lot in author spaces as a way to market yourself and to market your books.
3:50: I think there's, there's kind of like three different camps, I think, of authors on this topic.
3:56: There's the authors who are like, yes, TikTok, I'm all the way in, and they're just, you know, their critics might say they have Kool-Aid on their list.
4:02: But whatever the case might be, right, they are just, they're there for it, right?
4:05: Then you have people who are like, no, I'm never gonna do TikTok or I'm never gonna do social media at all, right?
4:10: I just don't have time for that.
4:11: I'm gonna do other things to promote myself, or I don't need to do social media.
4:15: And then you got people in the middle who are like, I don't know, like, maybe, like, but they, I feel like they, they're, they're not sure that it's gonna be, I don't know, worth their time.
4:28: Or what have you.
4:29: Obviously, from an author's perspective, that's a little different than from somebody who's just creating book talk content, but I imagine.
4:39: You interact with authors a whole heck of a lot.
4:42: What is the book talk community like?
4:46: How would you, because I have my own idea of what the book talk community is like, but, but from your perspective, maybe that'll help some of those authors who are on the fence to know like, OK, this is what you can expect if you dive into book talk as an author.
5:00: OK, so book talk is crazy.
5:03: and it's crazy in a good and bad way.
5:06: Yeah, yep, that is, that is the best way to put that is it is crazy.
5:12: You are going to get.
5:14: A mix of things.
5:16: You are gonna have the book talkers who will go crazy for your book and scan it and put it out everywhere that they can, make multiple posts about it, and you'll have the opposite side of that who are like, yeah, that's not for me, and they'll just skip right past you, or you have the ones that'll let you know, hey, this is awful, this is trash, you shouldn't even be an author, which is terrible.
5:37: But, what I do love about it is Even if there is.
5:48: Some sort of.
5:50: Controversy or difference of opinion, it's heated, but it's passionately heated in a way where you're like, OK, these people really care about what they're reading.
6:01: They really care about the authors.
6:03: They really care about their opinion.
6:06: That's they're diehard in that.
6:09: Anyone who is unsure about joining the book talk community, I can understand it because it can be so intense, is where you're going to find The largest book community, the.
6:24: Yeah, yeah, it, it definitely is crazy.
6:26: You get a little bit of, you get a little bit of everything in there.
6:30: Stephanie, you're all, you're also on TikTok, so you can speak to this too.
6:34: I don't know what your experience was like as an author on TikTok.
6:37: Yeah, I, I've been on TikTok for years, probably since 2020.
6:42: One, maybe 2020.
6:44: I don't even remember.
6:45: I have a love-hate relationship with TikTok and book talk, not necessarily book talk, just TikTok, just because it it is such a time suck.
6:53: You can get really lost in TikTok, and especially when you're an avid reader, getting into book talk, I lose hours of my day.
7:00: So I, I kind of have this ebb and flow with TikTok.
7:02: I'll get really into it for a little while and then I kind of taper off.
7:07: My biggest question has always been, how, how do you, even as a reader, like how do you get involved in the book talk community?
7:15: Is it simply just posting content yourself, commenting on others?
7:19: You know, you hear a lot about people making these, these strong relationships in book talk.
7:24: And my question as someone, and maybe my problem is that I'm not on enough, but how, how do you get into the community?
7:33: So in my personal experience, it started out with just making the videos and, you know, interacting with the people who engaged on those, but it really does help if you're also going to Other people's content and commenting on that, and somehow I got added to a group on there, and that is also a great way to Build even more community in there and get involved in those things.
8:04: But for me, what really helped me grow in that was doing more.
8:11: Involved things like the indie author interviews and me personally going and sharing someone else's posts and say, hey, go and check this person out.
8:21: I've noticed when you engage more with other people, they're more likely to be like, oh, let me actually go and look at this person's page.
8:28: I'm probably one of those ones where they see me pop up so much in their notifications because I'm just like, you're great, you're great, you're great, you're great, you're great.
8:36: They're like, OK, who is this?
8:37: All right, let me go look at her page.
8:41: That's a, that's a big way to get it cause I know that that's what happens for me is I'll see someone's name enough where I'm like, OK, wait a minute, I don't think I've actually, like, who is this?
8:51: So I will go and I'll look at their stuff and most of the time I spend hours on their page, and I'm like, oh, you're actually really cool.
8:58: This is neat.
8:59: But it, it really is the engaging.
9:02: The engaging is so, so important, cause if you, if you just post something and you just leave the app for a few days and you don't engage, you don't Search for the bookish stuff, just you're just gonna kind of be stagnant and not see as much growth or engagement in that.
9:21: I know one thing I've like some of the readers that I've engaged with aren't necessarily actively creating content.
9:26: I have one guy in particular that I'll kind of shout out here who he, he read my book, and then I think he, I think he read my book and then he found me on TikTok, like just cause I had been posting like it was like serendipity.
9:40: I don't think he found my book from TikTok, from the post I was making there, and he has He doesn't post or create content, but he will comment on other book talk creators content, and he will tag me and be like, hey, you should check out this guy's books.
9:55: So even if you're not like, for readers, even if you're not necessarily looking to like create content, that's that kind of stuff, like, and it's, he'll, he'll do that like, maybe like once a week or something on a video.
10:06: It's not even like he's doing it.
10:08: There was a while there where he's doing it a lot, and it's like maybe once a week, but it's still like, as an author, it's really cool because they're like, hey, I had that much of an impact.
10:15: And that's the kind of thing that I don't know, it's, it's kind of hard to create that through.
10:21: There's a social aspect to social media, which is a double-edged sword, but in this case, like you create a fan like that as an author.
10:28: Who's gonna go out and and make more fans, hopefully.
10:32: So, I, I imagine there's probably different ways to engage.
10:35: Most readers, and this is maybe the one thing that I've tried to pay attention to is that the content that readers are engaging with tends to be, at least, at least from the outside, seems to be that they're engaging a little bit more with content that's being created by book talk creators, other readers, then they are engaging with content that is created by authors to promote themselves.
11:00: And I think there's a reason for that, which I mean, we can totally get into, because the authors in the audience will want to know, well, why, then why should I create content on TikTok?
11:08: I think there's a way that you can, you can deal with that.
11:10: But is that your experience too, that readers kind of tend to flock toward that content that's created by other readers?
11:16: They're really more interested in like getting a Recommendation from somebody else, then they aren't necessarily hearing it directly from the author.
11:23: Have you seen that too?
11:24: Absolutely, absolutely.
11:25: And that's honestly what got me into Book Talk with someone else's review of certain books.
11:31: And then that made me go and look at the author's page.
11:33: I have also experienced though, where I've seen someone else's review, gone to the author's page, and because they didn't have a whole lot out there, I was like, well, I mean, OK, maybe I'll check back and then completely forgot about them, so that.
11:49: It's, it's, yeah, and it works, yeah, because I, that, that doesn't make sense because they could hear about you in a review and then it's, it's like visiting if somebody tries to visit your website and it's like under construction, like, OK, well, I guess that's not, I'm gonna have to come back if you have a TikTok profile, but you don't have a lot of content there or any content, yeah, I could see that being, that could be, that could be kind of, kind of tricky.
12:12: How, how do you handle, like, how should an author approach a book talker?
12:16: Like what are the pickup lines be like, You know, like, hey, did you fall from heaven?
12:20: Cause, right, you're, you're gonna read my book and review it, right?
12:23: I could see authors being, we, we tend to be a little bit of the awkward type.
12:27: So if, if an author is wanting to like, get into the book talk community and get book talkers talking about their book, like, what's involved, how much money is it gonna cost in bribes, that sort of thing.
12:37: So, I mean, for me, it doesn't cost anything.
12:41: But I know that there's some authors that have followed me and as soon as I follow back, there's like an automatic message that sends, and that's been kind of neat.
12:53: But sometimes in the moment almost comes across aggressive, like, oh wait, I didn't.
12:58: I just, I just wanted to follow you just to see what your stuff is about.
13:01: So that can come across a little aggressive, but the reach out is actually one of the best ways to get a reader's attention.
13:09: It's just that, hey, so I was looking at your content.
13:12: This looks like it would fit in what you normally read or what you're normally talking about.
13:18: This is what my book is about.
13:19: Would you be willing to give it a chance?
13:21: That is the one that has pulled me in the most versus the ones where it's like that bottom.
13:26: message and seems aggressive.
13:27: But when an author, when it seems like the author actually took the time to look at the types of things I'm reading or reviewing and is genuinely like, I actually think you would really enjoy this, that makes me feel like they care more versus the mass like, Hey, you may like this.
13:43: I don't know.
13:44: I don't know if this is even your thing, but hey, check this out.
13:48: I think when it feels a little more personal, that makes you more attracted to it.
13:55: I think that one of the reasons that some authors are hesitant to get involved in the book talk community is because of Goodreads is well known, you know, to everybody as a reader community, and authors, I don't want to say smart authors, but those of us who have learned the lesson, try and stay out of Goodreads as an author, except for, you know, updating our books and things like that, but it's, it's meant for readers to discuss with other readers.
14:20: Do you have any advice?
14:21: Like, is, do you, do you, do you feel that the book talk reader community is more open to having authors, a part of the community, a part of talking about books and other reviews and things like that?
14:33: Oh yes, yes, definitely.
14:35: I think one of my favorite things to see is when one author is talking up and supporting another author.
14:43: There's one in particular named Adam.
14:45: I love going to his stuff because he will mention his books, but he also will promote so many other authors, and I love seeing that because us as readers, we can do that.
14:55: We can do that review for you and we can talk about it, but it's also really cool when we see that you also are supportive in that, and then it feels more of like a community type thing versus readers here, authors here, narrators there, like everybody in their own little area.
15:12: It feels more like a community when everyone's supporting everyone, if that makes sense.
15:17: Yeah.
15:18: I, I think part of the Goodreads thing, and maybe Stephanie, we can bounce off each other here a little bit is because Goodreads is primarily a review platform, the readers on Goodreads perceive authors coming into that space as them trying to manipulate it.
15:31: Whereas on a social Platform like TikTok.
15:34: Well, if you're making content and you're part of the community, like I know Adam, we've, Adam and I have, like, we've exchanged DMs.
15:41: We collaborated on, on.
15:42: He just, he did these indie author Jeopardy videos, which are just hilarious.
15:46: He had me on one of those, so we collaborated on.
15:49: it, it's fun stuff.
15:50: And he's kind of taken the path of doing like the hybrid, like he is an author, but he's creating that book book talk type content where he's talking about other authors too, and that's one strategy that authors will take.
16:01: It's not the only strategy, by the way, but It's one of them.
16:04: It's not something that I personally do because I'm just a bad person, but Adam is, Adam is a great human being.
16:10: So you're awful, Jack.
16:13: I'm, I'm doing this just because I'm doing this just because I know that Adam is gonna watch this episode of the podcast because I'm gonna share it with him and be like, go to this time stamp where we mention you, but Yeah, but, so I think that's, that's one way to do it.
16:27: And I've generally what I've seen is it's pretty welcoming.
16:30: If anything, the, I will say the, the book talk creators and the readers, I haven't had.
16:36: Any negative experiences.
16:38: I know there's, there's been book talk creators who have posted content where maybe they shared opinions on something that might, I might have disagreed with, but I mean, I'm an adult, so that's fine with me.
16:47: I don't have a problem with that.
16:49: But like their opinions on reviews or, you know, etiquette, and where I have maybe just a different point of view.
16:55: It's more the authors.
16:56: And Stephanie, I don't know if you get this a lot too, but like, I have one author that when Whenever they post content, they will send it to me in a DM.
17:03: Every time they post a video or make a post, they send it to me in a DM with nothing, no added context, no, no additional conversation.
17:10: They're just sending it to me in a DM, and I will, so what I'll do is I'll just be randomly browsing some, you know, through my feed.
17:17: I'll find some totally random unrelated video and just send it to them.
17:20: Love that response.
17:21: In fact, there's a video I'm thinking of right now.
17:23: That I should, you know, a dog grooming, dog grooming videos, those sometimes can get pretty messy.
17:28: There's one of those that that I think anyway, I'm being a little, I'm being a little facetious when I say that, but it's, it's, it's, it's, I think there's some authors who jump on there and think like, it's that self promotion, that urge to self promote yourself in, in those very low hanging fruit ways that I think comes off as, Disingenuous.
17:48: I don't know, Stephanie, if you've encountered any of that, or engaged in any of that.
17:52: I don't know if you've done that stuff before, if you're that type of, if you're that type of author.
17:58: No, no, I'm and I can't say I know you're not thankfully, maybe I'm not on enough and I know it, it'd be a waste of their time because I'm not on enough to check my DMs, but, no, but I was thinking, I think, you know, part of being an indie author especially is like making a lot of mistakes and we all definitely, it's one of those, one of those industries.
18:22: Where you make a lot of mistakes, you learn from those mistakes and hopefully grow and get better from the mistakes and not necessarily quit from the mistakes.
18:29: Now I'm curious though, Casey, has there, do you know of any circumstances where an author has totally like borked it on TikTok but made a comeback?
18:38: Oh, that wasn't an author situation.
18:41: Well, reader has, that's a good question.
18:43: That's a really good question.
18:45: I mean, I think there's some authors who have maybe stumbled into controversy and then, and then probably what they typically do is just ignore it.
18:55: I've seen a little bit of that.
18:56: I, Casey, I don't know if you have any other examples, but that's, that's what, no, I think that that's primarily what I've seen also, because I think the ones where they did something pretty bad, I don't think I've seen some of them come back.
19:11: They're just gone, but I have seen where there's like controversy.
19:15: I think there was one recently that I saw around Red Queen and gosh, another book, and this author was upset because people were accusing her of plagiarizing, but her book had come out first, and so the other person.
19:31: had to kind of answer to that because she was also on the, yeah, you plagiarized until she was like, actually this came out here.
19:37: And so it was that was a whole thing and the other author I saw almost just kind of ignored the situation and kept posting her content, and it seems like that just controversy just kind of faded away.
19:48: And so that I've seen a lot of that where there's like these back and forths in the controversy, but because the author is just kind of like, oh, whatever, and just keeps posting.
19:58: Blows away if that makes sense, yes, which, which could be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on what the controversy is, but But exactly.
20:09: Yeah, yeah, I guess the problems we've seen have, have kind of just disappeared off of TikTok.
20:16: No, I, I've heard of and, and book talk creators or any creator really like where they're doing some, you know, slimy stuff like that kind of stuff that gets exposed, yeah, they're gone, right?
20:28: So.
20:28: I guess if you're talking like when you say they blew it on TikTok, Stephanie, I guess maybe what, like, what do you mean like by that, like they posted content that made people angry.
20:37: In my opinion, making people angry is one of the best ways to go viral, by the way, but I don't know.
20:43: I don't know what you mean.
20:43: It's terrible to say, but it's so true.
20:46: It's so true.
20:47: Any kind of emotion that you can get people feeling definitely drives engagement, but you just, but I guess it depends, like you don't want to make people angry to the point that they start boycotting and review bombing you and things like that.
21:01: My thought was more just if, if authors are getting kind of a bad name, if they even are, if they're just only posting about their own content or sliding into people, people's DMs with their like constant marketing, marketing, right?
21:16: But I don't, I don't know if there's been anything where it's been big enough that, you know, we can say they messed up doing this, but then they fixed it, and I feel like that's probably true.
21:25: I, I have one and.
21:28: Now that we're going through this, I'm like, OK, I thought about this one.
21:30: This, I kind of wanted to bring this up anyway.
21:32: There was a book talker, so this is a reader posting, and they started off their video by saying that they would no longer be accepting arcs from indie authors because they had they've received an arc from this author, and this, and I, I'm, before I even tell the story, I'm gonna say it, this reader is absolutely 100% correct because of what this author did.
21:54: which is basically like sent them the ark.
21:57: I think the way that it went down was that they, they tried reading, they were started reading the book, it wasn't their thing.
22:04: So they just didn't finish it, didn't post a review, and then the author was like hunting them down, like, where's the review?
22:11: You agreed to review this, you're supposed to review it, and so the, yeah, that, that author has, I'm not sure that that book talk creator posted the author's name or not, I can't recall, but I remember seeing that post, and that's the type of thing that I don't know.
22:29: Within the community, it might be hard to come back from unless you like made a statement about, hey, yeah, OK, I've made it, I screwed up.
22:36: So I'm really glad that you said that because I, I actually have an episode coming out about this sort of thing.
22:42: As a reader, this will hopefully this will be very helpful for authors, but as a reader, when we sign up for the arc and we get the honor of getting to receive that arc, most of the time.
22:54: In the email or whatever it is that we receive, it will say, if your review is 3 stars or less, do not leave a review.
23:01: But, so I had a situation happen where there was an author who I received that email.
23:07: It said in the email, if you DNF, if you, if your review is 3 stars or less, please don't leave a review.
23:13: Thank you for the opportunity.
23:14: But also above that it said that the reviews were required.
23:18: So there was Kind of a little bit of a confusion there.
23:21: So this was one, unfortunately, the author forgot to mention trigger warnings, and I have certain ones that I do avoid.
23:27: And so I got to a certain part in the book and had to quit the book because of that stuff being in there.
23:33: And I did reach out to her to let her know like, hey, I could not finish this book.
23:38: This is why, I won't leave a review or anything like that.
23:41: And she, she was understanding.
23:44: But then came back again and was like, well, could you, like, why wouldn't you leave a review?
23:48: Well, your email stated that you did not want a review if it was 3 stars or less, or if I didn't finish it, you did not want that review.
23:57: So I didn't leave that.
23:58: And so that that's, that's a situation where I saw the video that you're talking about, and I agreed with her 100% because I've experienced that.
24:08: I've also experienced.
24:10: Where I get the arc and the book doesn't release for another 2 months.
24:16: Or even months, and it's maybe a week later and I'm getting a message after message after message of did you start it?
24:22: Did you start it?
24:23: Did you start it?
24:23: And I'm one, I will respond.
24:25: I'll let you know.
24:26: No, I'm so sorry.
24:27: I've not started it yet.
24:28: I do, I will be starting it around this time, and even with that, it's, well, did you start it?
24:34: Did you start it?
24:34: I promise you I'm going to start it or once I say, yeah, I've started it, I'm this far in, then comes the, well, how far are you now?
24:42: How far are you now?
24:43: And it feels very like rests sure.
24:45: Very, very much pressured into getting this done, even though there's plenty of time.
24:50: So that, that can be really hard for Raiders, yeah.
24:55: No bueno, yes.
24:57: More often with newer authors or established authors as well, cause in my head I'm just going, if authors are listening to this, hopefully they do, that please don't do this.
25:09: Like, don't micromanage your arc readers, for one, nobody likes a micromanager, but the whole don't leave a review, I think is really, I, I'm just not.
25:19: fan of that language.
25:20: It's one thing to say if you're 3 stars or less and DNF, can you just wait a few weeks so that the launch starts off really strong, right?
25:28: But to say like, don't leave one at all, I feel like that goes against the entire spirit of arcs in general.
25:34: I just do not like this.
25:37: Some of the, some of the best marketing material you can get as an author.
25:41: is from your 1 and 2-star reviews.
25:43: Somebody goes in there and says, this book contained, contained X, Y, and Z.
25:47: That's why I didn't like it.
25:49: And somebody who comes along who likes X, Y, and Z is like, that's the book for me.
25:54: I, I don't, I, I mean, I've taught numerous webinars to authors.
25:58: On arcs, and yeah, generally speaking, our recommendation at Book Funnel is, yeah, don't be an asshole.
26:05: You're going to send that, it is a numbers game, you are planting seeds, many of which will not germinate into a fully flowering review, and you have to accept that.
26:17: And that's some communication, you know, keep the communication to necessary communication.
26:23: Don't press, because the moment you start pressuring readers, you're like, you're creating the opposite effect that you think you're creating, which is you're, you're not motivating anybody to do anything.
26:32: You are, you know, in fact, motivating people to steer clear of you, and you burn through readers.
26:37: That's why you, that's why you're not building a team of readers who stick around to review your next book and build a team, a street team or an art team or what have you, because You're an asshole.
26:48: I just gotta say it.
26:49: And, and that's.
26:51: You know, this is the Book Funnel podcast, and we, we don't sugarcoat it here.
26:57: That's, that if you're gonna treat readers that way, then expect them to, to respond.
27:03: The way that these readers are responding.
27:05: Casey, I'm sure that you can speak to that more from the reader's perspective too, but I just, I had to say that.
27:10: I'm sorry.
27:11: No, no, no, no, it's, it's very accurate.
27:13: I mean, that's, that's how I feel in regards to like this particular author.
27:19: After that experience, I was like, I don't, please remove me from your team.
27:22: I don't wanna, I don't want to read anything else for you.
27:26: It's also, I want to say just the pushy.
27:33: Nature is just the biggest turnoff.
27:35: It will instantly make me shut down and just be like, OK, well, I, and I'm also kind of a rebel at heart.
27:41: So if you're pushing me multiple times in a day or in a week to read your book, I'm going to purposely not read your book for even longer.
27:51: Because I'm like, hey, I know, I know that the marketing is important, but also, Stephanie, to answer your question, I'm seeing it, it's a mix of everybody.
28:02: It's a mix of everybody.
28:03: The newer ones, I do see it the most with newer authors.
28:06: And so in that regard, I kind of understand it, but I'm also that person who's like, hey, so I just want you to know.
28:14: This is a little pushy.
28:15: I'm happy to look into this, but you need to give me more than an hour to respond.
28:20: That would be great.
28:22: So, but it is, it's a, it's a mix of a mix of all the others.
28:27: It's the seasoned ones, the ones that are still kind of new, but not new.
28:32: They've been in it for a little while, so they kind of know, and then the brand new ones who are like, I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm just gonna bombard everybody with everything.
28:42: And that's, that's hard.
28:43: And then also with being told that a review is required, but don't leave a review if it's 3 stars or less.
28:49: It also makes readers feel like their voice isn't what actually matters.
28:54: It's that they want the 5 and 4 star reviews, which I understand.
28:58: I'm sure any author wants nothing but 4s and 5s, but I want to be able to say, hey, this book was a 3 for me.
29:05: Here's why.
29:06: If it's for you, fantastic.
29:08: It just wasn't for me, and that's fine.
29:11: But when you get that, oh, don't leave a review, that makes it feel like you, your voice is not important.
29:17: It's just the, it's just the 5 and the 4 stars, and that can feel icky.
29:23: Give me the ick and I would never recover from that author.
29:27: Yeah, yeah.
29:29: Well, and Stephanie now being part of Book Funnel, we authors use us to send thousands of arcs every day.
29:36: And so being able to see behind the curtain now, right, when you become part of the book Funnel team and you can see what authors are doing, most of them totally up and up, not doing anything, right?
29:46: That would give authors a bad name.
29:48: But Stephanie, I'm sure even in like the, has it been about 1 month here or so that you've been with the?
29:53: No, it's been, it's been 2 months now.
29:56: I had a baby in 11 of those months.
29:59: So I know that like my, my perspective of time is a little off, but like, in those two months, you've probably already seen things that have made you go like, what are you thinking?
30:08: And that they're doing, yeah, so it.
30:11: I, I do believe it is probably mostly newer authors, authors who are coming to this with a, with a preconceived notion of, I'm gonna, this is the steps of the process to be successful as an author, and I'm gonna go through each step of the process.
30:26: And this arc step is one of the most challenging because, you, you can easily hear somebody talk about it online and tell you how to run an art campaign or build an arc team, and this is what you've got to do X, Y, and Z.
30:41: This is what worked for me.
30:42: And then you try to replicate that and you don't have the same results, because there's so many things, so many factors outside of your control.
30:49: And then some of those authors get frustrated with that, and so they try to be more controlling about the whole thing, because, again, so much of it is outside of your control.
30:57: There's only so much that you can do, so yeah.
31:01: Yeah.
31:01: Yeah, it's tricky to balance it all, and there's a lot of bad advice out there, so I get it, but also I just go back to that nobody likes the micromanager, and I don't know where that would come from like that when you were saying like you were getting, you know, or have seen getting multiple emails in a day, I'm like, whoa, that's crazy.
31:22: Yeah, I have gotten that.
31:24: So my, my daughter's wedding day actually, I had an author that messaged me.
31:30: Oh, I counted it.
31:31: It was like 6 times in that day because they wanted to schedule for a spotlight.
31:37: And I told them the first time I was like, I'm so sorry.
31:40: I'm at my daughter's wedding.
31:41: I'm getting her ready right now.
31:42: I will respond to you as soon as I can.
31:44: It won't be today.
31:45: And he followed up with 5 other messages of, I want to get scheduled, I want to get scheduled, and I still have not scheduled.
31:54: Yeah, I would not either.
31:56: Yeah, absolutely.
31:57: If you get that boundary.
32:00: I don't know Anybody should recognize.
32:04: And I, I think it comes again from a place of like, when authors, when you write a book, it is, it's a very like intimate thing.
32:10: And there's a reason why people call their books their baby, right?
32:14: You hear that?
32:15: Because, yeah, you've, it's this thing that you've created, so you feel very strongly and passionately about that.
32:20: And, and just like sometimes, you know, your parenting instincts can bring out the worst in people sometimes, right?
32:29: It's true, it's true.
32:30: This is kind of the same way, and it's, you know, it's maybe a little worse because you're trying to make money off of this baby.
32:37: That's the, I'm, I've taken the metaphor as far as I can take it, but yeah, there's, there's people who are gonna be treating this like it's This really important to them, so it must be really important to everybody else.
32:51: And the reality is, and I've told authors this many times, you wrote a book, that's great, nobody cares.
32:56: Nobody cares.
32:58: You have to, there's things you can do to make them care, like writing a good book, right?
33:03: There's ways to get people to care, clearly, there's authors doing it.
33:07: I mean, look at Matt Deneman and Dungeon Crawler Carl, that's all some people care about, right?
33:12: My wife won't even read my books, because she's re-listening.
33:16: To Dungeon Crawler, she finished the last book and she's now going back to listen to the first one.
33:21: She's listening to it all over again.
33:23: Of course she's not.
33:24: That's what I don't have a talking cat.
33:26: That's what it is.
33:27: But, but like, so, so it's really hard, it's like you, you will be invisible to 99.99999% of readers in all likelihood, even for the majority of.
33:38: Your career, even if you do manage to make it as a full-time author, you will be invisible to most readers, and that's just the way that it is.
33:47: And so if you come with this attitude, whether it's arcs or like getting a spotlight on somebody's TikTok channel or getting on their podcast or whatever the case might be, right?
33:56: Like, it's not, it's not the way to do it.
33:59: You have to come at it from, You have to be humble about this, I think, which is what I generally try to do.
34:05: I was, I was in, the, the, the comments of a, of a post on TikTok today about arcs and reviews and authors being upset about this fact that they sent out 100 arcs.
34:16: It only got 3 reviews.
34:17: And I'm like, yeah, it's typical.
34:19: That's typical.
34:20: That's actually good.
34:21: You got 3 reviews.
34:22: Be happy that you got those 3 reviews.
34:24: And then it nurture those 3 readers and, and bring them along with you.
34:29: And then when you've got another book, guess what?
34:30: That's 3 readers that are probably going to leave you a review and That's the way you've got to approach it.
34:36: But one, you know, one person in the comments says something like, well, you know what we should do, authors, we should read each other's books, and then review each other's books.
34:44: So you read my book and review it, I'll read your book and review it.
34:47: And I'm like, you do not want to do that.
34:48: You're gonna get banned on Amazon.
34:50: And they're like, what do you mean?
34:52: They did not, did not understand that it's, it's, so it's a very common thing to run across this issue, and authors think that there's got to be some way to get around it, and there's not.
35:02: It's just that you just got to eat this elephant one piece at a time.
35:05: So, I didn't know that authors doing that for, wow, it is not recommended.
35:12: Yeah, do not, not, not only do they get it possibly getting your account banned because it's review, manipulation and things like that.
35:22: But it also, it also can test friendships.
35:25: I mean, if, if you, if, I mean if you do it literally where you actually read the person's book and don't just write a fake review and you don't, but if you read it and you don't like it, and then they're asking you to leave a review and you're an honest person and you know, I've been in those, so I, I got to a point where I was not.
35:41: Yeah, swapping arcs or even, even reading for certain.
35:46: I, I had to really know I liked this person's writing before I would agree to like beta read or something like that because it just gets really and it's not to say that you would never be able to write a review as an author because authors are readers too, obviously, but it's if you are going out of your way.
36:02: To swap with another author, yeah, you're, you're likely to get in trouble.
36:06: It comes across as disingenuous.
36:08: I think there's a way that you could do it, and I think TikTok could actually make it doable is like the two authors agree to make content about each other's book, and each read each other's book, but I think it would actually perform best if you were like intentionally hypercritical, like almost to the point of comedy, where you're like, Oh, they had this in their book.
36:27: That's so overused, right?
36:28: Like that kind of like you could do that kind of thing, like make a joke out of it.
36:32: that's just my mind coming up with ideas on the fly.
36:35: But yeah, there's even a sort of, There are, there are paid review sites where you literally pay them to read the book and write a review.
36:44: Like Kirkus Reviews is one of those that's well known.
36:46: And they generally have a, a decent reputation, even though I think it's totally 100% unnecessary.
36:53: I've seen a lot of new authors fall into that trap of paying for those reviews.
36:57: It's not that what they're, the service they're providing is somehow a scam, in the sense that they're actually Delivering on what they said they would, it's just, it's so unnecessary.
37:08: It's like, why would you pay for it?
37:10: I think, I think part of that is also generational in that Kirkus reviews might have been really important before the age of, you know, when they were established, but at a certain point, and then.
37:22: I'm in my 40s and I still don't even know the importance of Kirkus Reviews.
37:26: I never went out to get one.
37:28: I see them and I, I hear about Kirkus Reviews a lot, but I don't actually know why it was, why it became such a big name.
37:35: Yeah, I mean they were doing reviews for independent authors for, it's been for a while.
37:40: I don't know if it's even before the, like the Kindle revolution, that sort of thing.
37:44: It was, but like in the golden era of self-publishing, they were a big deal.
37:49: And, they, I wouldn't say they were a kingmaker, but like you got a Kirkus review and you're guaranteed, but it did help some people then.
37:56: Now I don't think it really matters as much, because it's still just one review on your book at the end of the day.
38:02: You, you can put it on the back of your, your book and, and readers can think whatever they want to think about that.
38:07: When I see it, I usually go, OK, you shelled out like $600.
38:11: For, for a review, and what does that say about you?
38:13: I don't know.
38:14: But, but there are other, services out there that essentially allow you to arrange these review swaps.
38:21: So authors sign up for the service, and then you can put your book on there, and then in order to get your book reviewed, you have to review other books.
38:29: And so you're gonna have to read other authors' books and then review them to get your book reviewed and what you, you see these authors wind up doing.
38:35: is they just either download the books and then write a fake 5 star review just to get their book reviewed.
38:43: And then sometimes those authors do wind up accidentally reviewing each other's books, and then get caught up in a review manipulation, you know, web right there, which cannot be good.
38:54: So, not something that I would recommend anybody do anything of that sort.
38:59: So it's, It's like tadpoles.
39:02: It's tadpoles is what it is, right?
39:04: Frogs lay, I don't know how many eggs, right?
39:09: Only a few of those.
39:11: No, no, no, no, only a few of those.
39:13: This is what it is, only a few of those are gonna survive to maturity, right?
39:17: Arcs are the same thing.
39:19: You're gonna put out 100 copies of your book and get 3 to 5 reviews, and then you gotta nurture those readers and build that team over time.
39:28: So then you've got a team of 100 readers that you know is likely to leave a review, that takes time and that takes like being, you know, good, you know, a good human being and that sort of thing.
39:38: But to move on from the review conversation, unless you had anything to add, Casey.
39:44: No, no, I.
39:45: No, yeah, I, I wanted to get your opinions on the content that authors create because I think authors in terms of content tend to have a little lack of self-awareness when it comes to the content that they create.
39:58: What content have you seen that's like really resonated with you?
40:01: Let's start there.
40:02: Let's start with the positive stuff.
40:04: The content that has really resonated with me.
40:07: it's kind of a mixture of the author genuinely talking about their books, the funny ones as well, like Jack, yours are, yours are funny, and they just grab the attention.
40:18: -huh.
40:21: But then also the ones where they do show kind of the reviews as well, but not the ones that only do the 5 and 4 star ones.
40:29: I have seen a couple where they're like, oh, this was a 3 star one, but this is why you might like it type of thing.
40:36: Those are the ones that resonate the most with me.
40:41: and when it comes to authors, that's what'll grab my attention.
40:44: I do think humor goes a long way.
40:46: It does.
40:47: Do you know, have you ever seen Geneva Rose's account?
40:51: I don't, I don't read in that genre at all, but she and her husband have created this content where she'll put up her book and say, let me tell you about my book, and then he reaches in and grabs it, goes, no, I'm gonna tell you all.
41:04: About the Oh, yes.
41:05: Yeah, that was one of my all time favorite accounts ever.
41:08: I know nothing about her other than these are the most funny videos I've seen in my life.
41:13: I love it.
41:13: I love it.
41:14: Well, and that, that's actually probably a good way to go about it.
41:17: And I bet they repeat that type of format over and over again.
41:22: If having a repeatable format on TikTok is gold.
41:26: And so if you can find something like that, I think that's, I think that's the way to go.
41:32: I know for myself personally, I guess as an author like on book talk, I scroll past most authors, most authors' content, and I don't, I'm not saying this in any way to be mean.
41:45: I'm not their target audience, so of course I would.
41:48: Yeah.
41:49: But I think it's hard for authors to get out of some, for some of, some authors, maybe it's an, an introversion thing, you're coming out of your shell a little bit, maybe you gotta go through that awkward phase of just posting videos that nobody sees until you feel comfortable on the platform enough to then like, blossom into the true flower that you are, But I, I think there's also like understanding like, OK, you have to create content that people want to watch, in particular that people want to share with other people, and that's hard.
42:23: That's that's very hard.
42:24: Yeah, I can definitely see that.
42:26: It's, it's kind of, it sucks for the authors because there's just everyone's different and what's going to grab their attention.
42:34: Like for me, I know the ones where they're like, my audition to be your new.
42:39: Romanticy favorite.
42:41: I skip past those cause it just most of the time they post like a vibes thing after that and I'm like.
42:47: That doesn't really tell me a whole lot about your books, so I'm just like, no, but with the ones where they're actually talking about their book, that's, I'll engage in that because I'm learning about your book.
42:59: But if you're just posting something that's just like, oh, vibe check, I'm like, well, I'm already vibing over here.
43:04: Yeah, are you familiar with, I know, I know this person by two names, because they have a pen name.
43:12: So Ruby Rowe is the author, and she's big on, on TikTok.
43:18: We actually had her on the podcast a while back, and she just posts stuff for her, like she's in the UK.
43:26: She doesn't even have a TikTok shop or anything like that.
43:28: But she has gotten so much business through TikTok that She had to open like a warehouse.
43:32: I use air quotes because it's the UK when they say when they use the term warehouse, we think of like this giant building.
43:40: I'm not throwing any shade here.
43:41: It's just, it's basically a place to store the books, like almost like a storage unit or a storefront beside the point, like in order to ship all the books that she is selling.
43:51: And I tried literally like, OK, I'm going to go to her page and deconstruct her content, and then replicate it.
43:58: And it worked.
43:59: It works.
44:00: Yeah, you have, she writes in a totally different genre than I do, and I haven't had the time to like sit down and just obsessively replicate her content.
44:07: I should probably do more of it just for the sake of the experiment.
44:10: So I think there's something to be said there, like, look at what other authors are doing.
44:15: And if you're unsure what to do, I, like, almost like you're, you're going to go try that on at the department store.
44:22: Like, I'm gonna try that dress on and see how it looks on me, right?
44:25: And see how you like it.
44:27: and if you find that you get engagement from readers, or they're like, why are you a bearded dude wearing a dress, you know, cause some people might ask that question, then you, you can kind of go from there.
44:38: But the other thing, the other content that I've seen a lot of reaction from, A lot of engagement on is local content.
44:47: Like, I'm an author in Des Moines, Iowa type of content, and having a local presence there has made a difference.
44:55: Not every author does that, but like if you go to events, I posted a video about a Comic-C that I went to this past weekend in Davenport, Iowa.
45:04: Have either of you ever heard of Davenport, Iowa?
45:05: I have, OK, you have.
45:08: OK, well, that's great.
45:09: Daven, Dave, yes.
45:10: You might be confused.
45:12: There's a Davenport in Canada too, a shout out to Mark Leslie.
45:15: Basically, it's like on Iowa's nose, if you know the shape of Iowa.
45:19: It's like right there on the border with Illinois, right?
45:21: the Quad Cities is what that area is called.
45:24: I just posted this video, and be like, hey, there's a Comic-Con, this is what it's gonna be like.
45:27: I'm gonna be there.
45:28: I'm a sci-fi author, you can come meet me.
45:30: 13,000 views, which, which, For most authors posting on the platform, is a decent amount of views.
45:38: Now, what I'll say is this, that's probably because that content was very searchable.
45:42: Right.
45:42: And so lots of people saw it.
45:44: Did that translate to anybody coming to my booth?
45:47: No.
45:47: Well, well, I will say one person, one person maybe they just didn't tell you.
45:51: No, they usually do.
45:53: And I know that they usually do because I have, I have had success with this in the past where I did post, and I even promoted it, and people came in like, hey, I'm here from TikTok.
46:03: And then they bought my book, and it was great.
46:04: In this case, that didn't happen, at least to my knowledge, the only guy that came by was the guy in the Gundam cosplay, which is awesome.
46:11: He didn't buy a book, he didn't need to, he just wanted to come by and say hi.
46:14: But he was in my comments on that post, and he came by, and we chatted for a few minutes.
46:17: Which was, which was awesome.
46:19: But that's the thing too, is that it's not always the views that necessarily determine like the success of the content either.
46:26: And so you can make content that gets a lot of views, and that doesn't necessarily mean you're hitting your target, the target audience that's going to buy your book.
46:35: Now, I didn't mind in that case, because, hey, I'm promoting the event that brings more people who knows, right?
46:39: And to Stephanie's point, yeah, they might have come by and just not said that they saw me on TikTok.
46:45: That's it very well could be the case.
46:48: It's kind of hard to know, but it was a successful event, by the way, so there's that.
46:52: But you know, that sort of thing.
46:54: I, I don't know what the question was or what question I was trying to answer, but Their content type stuff.
47:01: I was gonna, I was gonna ask Casey, like, I don't know if this is you on the spot, or, you know, if you want to follow up or whatever, but off the top of your head, do you have any author accounts that you can think of that you're like they make great content from a reader perspective, besides reader perspective?
47:17: Yeah, so there is the first one that came to mind is I I know I'm gonna say her name wrong, but it's Tessa, Tessie, I think it's Tessia.
47:26: I'll have to like actually send it to you guys cause I cannot remember her full username on there, but she, she posts really good content, and I think she's coming to mind so quickly because she just did.
47:38: indie author Survivor, and that was some of the best and funniest videos I've seen, but there were so many indie authors that were in it that I didn't know about that I went to their page because of them being in that.
47:52: So that was really, really good content.
47:56: who else?
47:59: who's been pop?
48:00: My feed has been really weird lately.
48:03: My feed seems to really want to push certain authors right now, even though I will search up certain ones, but she is definitely one.
48:12: Adam does really good ones as well.
48:14: Adam Adam and, yeah, yeah, he does really good ones.
48:19: And then, yeah, I'm definitely taking notes, by the way.
48:24: They are.
48:25: Their, their stuff is really good, and I think what makes it so good is that, it feels fun, but also personal in a way, but you're also learning about the authors and their books and the stuff that they're doing.
48:36: who else?
48:37: There is 10 gosh, one second.
48:39: I'm going to my TikTok because there's one in particular that I was like, go ahead and look that up.
48:44: Go ahead and look that up, because I, I know for what a lot of authors wind up seeing is they wind up seeing authors talking about author stuff.
48:52: Right?
48:53: Yeah.
48:53: And so, authors will wind up finding that stuff, and then that might be the type of content they post, but that's not necessarily what readers are looking for and are gonna find interesting, right?
49:05: Like readers don't necessarily care about the steps of the process that it took you to publish on KDP.
49:11: Right, like, like that's, that's usually a snooze fest for readers.
49:15: No, so the average reader on Book talk, they're not looking for how you got to where you're at, they're looking for the information on your book, and honestly, they're looking for the pretty cover.
49:27: If you have a pretty cover and that's the first thing that they see, it will grab the attention, and they're gonna stick around to find out what the book is about, and if it's for them, great.
49:36: If it's not, they're probably gonna be like, well, that was a waste of my time.
49:39: Great cover though.
49:41: Yeah.
49:42: But that is hands down, one of the biggest ways to grab a reader's attention is the cover, you know, that we're not supposed to judge the book by the cover, but we're all doing it.
49:51: Let's, we all, let's be honest.
49:54: I, I think that phrase though comes from an age.
49:59: Don't judge a book by its cover.
50:01: That that phrase is so old that we're talking about books that like would have had blank covers.
50:08: Yeah, they were leather bound, handmade like every book was back in the day, and made, you know, who knows, I, I, I feel like that phrase is kind of outdated, to be quite honest.
50:20: So I agree, I agree, and especially in like the age that we live in right now, it's just that we all.
50:27: Judge the book by the cover.
50:28: The cover is very, very important.
50:30: If your cover is bland, it's not going to grab a reader's attention.
50:33: It's just.
50:35: That's just the truth of it.
50:36: there's It's been some books where because the cover didn't grab my attention, I did not even think about it again until later, in all honesty, when they redid their cover and it was more eye-catching and I was like, what's this one?
50:51: Oh wait, I read the back of this one.
50:54: But it, it really.
50:56: that marketing side of it, the cover, and for a lot of people who love their shelf trophies, the edges, those will catch attention faster than the cover will.
51:06: So it's, it's, so if you've got a really pretty cover and a really pretty edge, make sure you put that at the very beginning of your video.
51:14: My wife has an entire shelf of books that she has not read that prove this.
51:19: Yeah, shelf form.
51:20: Me too.
51:21: Me too.
51:21: I'm so guilty.
51:23: Yeah, I, I, I don't know, I, I'm not that kind of reader.
51:27: Well, it's a, it's a well known fact that there is a very, there's a difference between buying and collecting books versus reading books, you know, like, yes, it's like Pokemon cards, yeah, yeah, it's, it's Pokemon cards.
51:40: This is what I've told somebody this before.
51:43: So, so it, let me, let me go down this rabbit hole because I don't think I've talked about this on the podcast.
51:47: But, but Steph, but we all have kids here.
51:50: so I don't know.
51:51: My son went through a Pokemon card phase.
51:52: I, as a kid, collected Pokemon cards.
51:56: It's all about collecting, but they are connected to a game.
51:59: There's a game you can play with these cards.
52:01: The funny thing is, I also grew up playing another card game called Magic The Gathering, which many people have heard of, but some people might not.
52:08: have.
52:08: The funny thing is Magic The Gathering is the opposite.
52:11: It is about playing the game.
52:13: So when you go to buy Pokemon cards on the secondary market, meaning you're not buying them in a package that you're opening, somebody's already opened the cards, and this card has a certain value, and they're selling it.
52:23: In Pokemon, the value is based on how rare it is and how desirable it is, subjectively.
52:30: So the price of a card, the price of that first edition.
52:33: Charas are that a lot of people have heard about.
52:35: It's purely subjective, purely subjective, right?
52:39: You wouldn't even play with that card.
52:41: You wouldn't put that card in the deck.
52:42: In magic, at least, you know, I don't know, things have changed in recent years, but the value of a card was based on how powerful it was in the game.
52:51: If you liked the artwork on the card, nobody cared.
52:53: Like that was, that usually didn't matter.
52:56: It was how useful is it?
52:58: And does it.
52:59: Do its job.
52:59: And books are more like Pokemon cards these days, right?
53:03: Is it pretty?
53:04: Does it have all these fancy things about it?
53:07: And as an author who I personally don't care about those things, like, I don't think to market my, like, yes, I want my book to have an attractive cover, but I'm the type, and I'm coming around to it, but I'm the type of person who's like, nobody wants my book with sprayed edges and a specialist.
53:21: Nobody wants that.
53:22: Like I was just like, who would want that.
53:25: Yeah, well, I, well, but you know what I mean?
53:27: Like, there's, there's a certain, maybe there's other authors out there who are like me.
53:31: If you're like me, post, put it in the comments, but it just seems like I put so much time and effort into the story that that felt like that was the part that that mattered, and all that other stuff is like window dressing, but it matters.
53:45: It matters.
53:47: It also matters the genre, so it may not be as important in science fiction, right?
53:53: But it, but it's important in romanticy.
53:58: Yeah, that's really what I read.
53:59: So it's like, I don't know outside of that how important it is.
54:02: Sure, contemporary romance is blinging out these days too.
54:05: Yeah.
54:06: So, for me, cause I, I read a ton of different genres, the romanticsy fantasy ones, definitely that cover is important, but the sci-fi ones and No.
54:16: Like, I, I don't care about the cover as much in those as much as like if the blurb catches my attention.
54:24: and the same, well, it's the opposite actually for like the scary or thrillery ones.
54:30: If the cover is really spooky, I'm like, well, I need to read what this one's about.
54:34: But yeah, I really do.
54:36: I agree.
54:37: I think it depends on the genre and just What your personal.
54:41: Yeah.
54:44: Actually, that triggered a question, if you don't mind me asking, in terms of, book talk.
54:49: I, I do know that a lot of authors who don't write romance are also hesitant to get involved in book talk because they're like, well, all I ever see is romance authors making it and romance content.
55:00: So do you think that there is a Enough readership out there that you could get your videos seen by people who don't read romance.
55:07: Is there an audience?
55:08: Definitely.
55:09: OK.
55:10: Definitely.
55:11: So the videos that come up are all based off of the algorithm.
55:15: So if you are in your TikTok and you are looking for certain genres or authors, your feed, your algorithm will start to pick that up and will start to show.
55:24: You, the readers that want that kind of content.
55:28: Book Talk is very much so oversaturated with the romanticsy fantasy books.
55:33: So of course that's all you're going to see, but you have to also train your algorithm to bring you to the people that you want to read your book or whose books you're interested in.
55:44: It is very much a, it depends on you.
55:47: In a lot of ways, but then there's also that side where it's like, OK, well, this is oversaturated in this and it does leak into all of them, but there's definitely enough readers of all genre types on Book talk for for.
56:03: Any type of author, you just have to know how to get to that side of book talk.
56:08: And I'll say too, there's also readers who are not who are on TikTok, but aren't necessarily active in book talk.
56:15: And if you know how to find them, you can, and you do that by hijacking like keywords and so forth.
56:21: So I have a book that's inspired by like, by Firefly.
56:26: So if I mention Firefly in a video, that is gonna be in the feeds of people who are fans of Firefly, cause they'll see a Firefight clip, and they'll be like, oh, I like that, and they'll engage with it.
56:36: And then somebody will, you know, they'll see another video of somebody who like posted something about Firefly.
56:41: Like there's the new animated series that they're, they're they're planning to do and all that stuff, which they made a big hubbub about.
56:47: And then they'll eventually see my video, right?
56:49: Right.
56:49: So if you can do like comps and things like that, or you can do funny storytime videos, like you pull a scene from your book and you then talk like it's a storytime video, that's just shareable.
57:02: So I think you can find people even outside of book talk if you do it the right way has been my experience.
57:07: I think part of it is, I think we tend to forget that romance is not the only.
57:12: Like emotion that can get people engaged in this content.
57:16: We can use fear or shin, you know, all these different things to kind of draw people in, but romance just happens to be the biggest genre.
57:24: So you see it most.
57:26: I can say in science fiction, in science fiction, what I see, and I see this with authors too, or not authors, readers, I should say, when I talk to them in person.
57:36: And I think in-person events are actually a really great way to get insight even on how to market your books on social media.
57:42: They want to hear what it's about, they want to hear the idea.
57:46: And it's in particular, like science fiction.
57:49: Science fiction doesn't have just a male audience.
57:51: It has plenty of women who read science fiction.
57:53: It's leans a little bit more towards a male audience.
57:57: It's maybe like 60/40.
57:58: I'm not sure.
57:59: But usually when somebody who's interested as a science fiction reader, they want to know what.
58:04: It's about.
58:04: They're like, what's the premise?
58:05: What's the really cool idea that your book is about, that it's going to make my brain go, but, what are all the implications of that?
58:12: Because there's a net, that's also a natural process, like, you know, that that that's based on like survival, just like romances, you know, these are, These are rooted in like instincts that go deep into our brains.
58:25: There's reasons why we prioritize that information, and so, you can absolutely do it.
58:30: Like in science fiction, there's a trope of the big dumb object.
58:34: Do either of you know what this is?
58:35: The big dumb object.
58:37: OK, so, the one that comes to my mind is from a video game, which is Halo.
58:42: I don't know if you're familiar with Halo or not.
58:44: It's this giant ring world.
58:47: It's a giant superstructure that's this huge ring, and on the inside of the ring, it's like a planet, and you can walk around inside of it while it spins, right?
58:55: It's this giant dumb object that makes you go, and that's what gets you interested in it.
59:01: Or like it could be some big spaceship, it could be a big robot, it could be.
59:05: An alien, and when I'm looking to watch, my wife and I watched the movie War Machine on Netflix last night, literally just like scrolling through Netflix, the baby is keeping us up, like we're gonna be awake anyway, and it's like, it's just this giant robot, like this giant alien robot fighting Marines, and it was the giant alien robot.
59:24: We're like, yep, we're gonna, we're gonna play, that's what does it in science fiction.
59:29: So, absolutely, there's other things, other strings you can pull at, and it's not just romance, for sure.
59:36: The thing is, I think romance is, there's a reason why romance seems to be overrepresented, and that's just because the majority of books that are written are romance.
59:45: So it's not actually overrepresented.
59:47: It's just that there's more romance books out there and there's more romance readers.
59:50: It's just, that's not overrepresentation, that's just reality.
59:54: But that doesn't mean that there aren't readers in other genres.
59:56: Genres there is what I would say.
59:58: Like when you look at the numbers.
59:59: Well, Casey, it has been a ton of fun having you on the podcast.
1:00:03: I want to thank you for joining us.
1:00:05: Before we go, I'll give you the chance here to shout your stuff out where can people find you obviously on TikTok, but you can shout out your username, what have you, so the authors can find you there and elsewhere.
1:00:15: Awesome.
1:00:16: well, thank you so much for having me for one.
1:00:18: This was so much fun for me.
1:00:20: Absolute blast.
1:00:21: Stephanie, you were amazing.
1:00:22: Thank you so much.
1:00:24: you can find me on TikTok, Instagram.
1:00:27: I have a podcast and on YouTube.
1:00:30: Lady Belle Reads is my name across all platforms.
1:00:33: Try to make that as easy as possible for any readers that want to potentially connect as well.
1:00:38: I am on Goodreads on there as well.
1:00:40: Excellent.
1:00:41: All right.
1:00:41: Well, thank you again for joining us and thank you, of course, to Stephanie, my co-host, could not do this without you.
1:00:50: So thank you and thank you, Jack, for hosting us today.
1:00:53: Yeah, thank you.
1:00:54: Of course, of course.
1:00:56: And thank you, of course, to you, our viewers.
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1:01:04: Also, leave a comment with your number 1 or 2 or 3 takeaways.
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