In the pursuit of "making podcasts more discoverable," the podcast industry has welcomed YouTube with open arms. But is the industry misdiagnosing YouTube's role? YouTube isn't just "getting into podcasting" - it's a behemoth that's captured consumer attention at an unprecedented level.
I don't think YouTube actually cares about "podcasting" as an industry (it's just another content keyword for them). I also think responses like "Let's add video to podcasts" are missing the bigger picture.
This episode contains clips of myself and Jeremy Enns digging into the realities of algorithmic discovery, social media addiction, audio podcasts vs video podcasts, and how the podcast industry might respond to the threat of YouTube as a platform. Read my blog post on this topic here: justinjackson.ca/podcast-industry-youtube
- What the podcast industry gets wrong about YouTube
- YouTube as the ultimate content aggregator
- "This is not our kingdom": Podcasting in YouTube's empire
- The staggering reach of YouTube (98% of US internet users)
- What podcasting does that YouTube doesn't
- Marketing podcasts as "entertainment for your ears for when your eyes are busy"
- Positioning audio podcasting as the calm alternative to digital overstimulation
In the pursuit of "making podcasts more discoverable," the podcast industry has welcomed YouTube with open arms. But is the industry misdiagnosing YouTube's role? YouTube isn't just "getting into podcasting" - it's a behemoth that's captured consumer attention at an unprecedented level.
I don't think YouTube actually cares about "podcasting" as an industry (it's just another content keyword for them). I also think responses like "Let's add video to podcasts" are missing the bigger picture.
This episode contains clips of myself and Jeremy Enns digging into the realities of algorithmic discovery, social media addiction, audio podcasts vs video podcasts, and how the podcast industry might respond to the threat of YouTube as a platform.
I agree. Without the premium version, listening to podcasts on YouTube is often annoying because of the ads. Sometimes I want to watch a podcast, just like watching a talk show, but most often, I'm just listening to podcasts in the background while working.
Can't say I know many young people who listen to podcasts, my kids hate them 😂
But the younger people I know who use YT for music and podcasts don't watch it either. It's just their portal to the content.
"podcasts" is a head fake, it's a word, it doesn't behave according to any laws of physics
in 2025, I'm thinking about things in terms of "airpod time" and "screen time" - these are real constraints
YT wants to own most screen time, + make more (self-driving cars), + visual ads (a large project)
however, airpod time does not compete with screen time, it exists in a separate non-intersecting plane
this time is associated with exercise, fresh air, driving, chores, walking, working, where your eyes need to be in the real world
this is not a small amount of time: now, or in the future
There are scenarios where “screen time and AirPod time” compete (on an airplane or a bus).
Also I’m increasingly seeing Gen z flow seamlessly between screen time and AirPod time (watching YouTube and then slipping their phone in their pocket and listening audio only).
hopefully the pocket-slippers are not at the wheel!
if both are possible, then it's screen time (apparently 😔)
one thing I was thinking about this morning: if all existing podcasts were suddenly available on YT, how many listeners would listen there and dump AP, spotify, or other listening app
Doubtful. It’s just another channel for shows; people still listen and drive, for example. Radio is still a thing, for that matter.
Audio-only will probably never die. But don’t put that on my headstone…
I don't think it will kill it.
I still like to listen when in the gym or walking.
But I've found I "watch" when cooking for example.
What do you think?
Absolutely not, I really enjoy audio podcasts, I absolutely hate video and I especially dislike YouTube
What is Justin's brain?
Hi, I'm Justin Jackson. Here, I'm sharing brief thoughts on building a better life, bootstrapping, improving society, growing older in tech, being a dad...
Justin Jackson:
I think people underestimate the momentum that YouTube has. When kids wake up in the morning and they've got five minutes to kill, they go to YouTube. When people come home from a long day at work and they're like, "Oh, should I get into that Netflix show?" It's like, "Nah. I'll just like go to YouTube."
Justin Jackson:
It feels like a lower lift. It's like, "Where do I go for that long form content that I love?" YouTube.
Justin Jackson:
"Where do I go when I'm bored?" YouTube.
Justin Jackson:
Where do I go when it's like, "Do I have the energy to dedicate to a whole TV show right now or a whole movie? Mhmm. No. Do I wanna just scroll TikTok? No."
Justin Jackson:
But I'll open up YouTube and there's gonna be 20 videos recommended for me. It's like, "oh, yeah. I'm gonna watch that. Oh, and I don't like that."
Justin Jackson:
"I'm gonna switch to a different video." It it it just occupies a space in the consumer's life that no other app does. It's a different consumption mode than being on TikTok, than being on Instagram, than listening to a audio podcast. And I think when we talk about "video podcasting," what we are ignoring is how much the consumer's mindset matters. And, like, even Spotify is trying to compete on this.
Justin Jackson:
Yeah. They're trying to say, "like, okay. We're gonna add video. But people are not opening up that Spotify app on their connected TV as much (I know Spotify says they're getting a lot of consumption there) but not as much as they are YouTube.
Justin Jackson:
And there's a reason for that. It occupies a space in the consumer's mind. It occupies a space in their habits, which I think are also underrated when we're talking about consumer behavior. And the podcast industry is ignoring this at their peril. They are misdiagnosing the opportunities and the threats because they are misdiagnosing consumer behavior.
Justin Jackson:
This is not just like something that people are switching to. It's like, "oh, I was an audio podcast listener, but now I'm a video podcast watcher." It's not just "I discovered podcasts on YouTube and now I watch video podcasts on YouTube." There are so much more dynamics to this that people are ignoring. And it's everything from, yeah, maybe I watch a podcast on YouTube.
Justin Jackson:
But then the next video that gets recommended is not a podcast. You know? And then the next five videos I watch are not podcasts. YouTube is an ecosystem all onto its own. And it is just a behemoth in terms of capturing consumer attention in all sorts of ways, in all sorts of modes of life, and at all sorts of stages of development.
Justin Jackson:
Everything from young children to teenagers to working adults to retired baby boomers. They have captured everybody's attention and in all sorts of ways. And I I just think the podcast industry does need to take YouTube seriously. But I think they're misdiagnosing, like, the response is, "well, maybe we should do video in RSS" or "maybe, you know, even Spotify. Maybe we should do video in Spotify."
Justin Jackson:
Sure. You should do all that. But the YouTube is so much bigger than all of this. Yeah.
Jeremy Enns:
You know, the your description there at the start just made me think very much along the same lines of Instagram and many social media apps where it is habit is not even a strong enough word. There is a habit and I think about oftentimes when I'm gonna sit down to eat dinner if I'm on my own and I'm like, oh, let's like watch something and immediately I'm going to YouTube because I'm like, oh, I've got like ten to fifteen minutes and I podcasting is a very active engagement and intentional platform about what you're gonna listen to where YouTube you go to YouTube to served something. Mhmm. I go to YouTube and I just wanna see, tell me what to watch. Like, win me over, woo me on the home screen and there's always like something else scanned through like, ah, this is good enough.
Jeremy Enns:
And which is very different than like, I wanna listen to a podcast because I like this host and I wanna be in this mode right now. It's like, give me something to pass the time. And so I think that that is not something that podcasting can compete with in the traditional way and it's something that there is just, like you said, this user behavior that it's beyond choice, it's beyond even habit, it is just pure addiction that like people have been programmed and conditioned to like pull pull up their phone, pull up the smart TV, pull up their iPad and like reach for that red YouTube button. And yeah, it's I think Spotify and anybody else who's trying to compete with YouTube. There is a huge brand and platform pull.
Justin Jackson:
Yes. Yeah. And it's an aggregator on a level we've never seen before. This is why podcast people are like, you know, YouTube's getting into podcasting. YouTube doesn't care about podcasting.
Justin Jackson:
YouTube is just saying, okay. Well, this is a label that's helpful. This is a type of content that people wanna consume on YouTube right alongside how to videos, right alongside full length stand up comedy specials, right alongside full length documentaries, right alongside traditional cable news, which is now getting broadcast to YouTube. People come to YouTube for full length movies. People come to YouTube Sports.
Justin Jackson:
For sports. People come to YouTube for concerts, for music videos, for like, these things that we used to consume all sorts of different places. YouTube is the ultimate aggregator of everything. They've got music, they've got podcasts, they got movies, they got it all. And that's what we're competing against.
Justin Jackson:
That's that's the the territory we're entering into as podcasters and a podcast industry. This is not our kingdom. This is YouTube's kingdom, and podcasting is a tiny little province in that kingdom. And until we take that position seriously and realistically, I don't think we're going to be able to address the threat or opportunity of YouTube properly. Until we really view this through the lens of consumer behavior and how encompassing YouTube is in that world.
Justin Jackson:
Like 98% of US Internet users use it every month. This is insanity. This is an empire unlike anything else we've seen. And we are podcasts as a label is just a tiny it's a keyword in YouTube. And then we haven't even talked about the advertising side of this.
Justin Jackson:
Like, the truth is, There is a world in which YouTube encompasses every single type of content you can consume. It gets it all. And they serve all the ads. And so that is a world that could exist.
Justin Jackson:
And I think that's the, you know, the ultimate threat is like, what does the podcasting industry look like if YouTube owns it all? And again, the YouTube doesn't care about these as industries. These are just keywords. These are just labels. These are useful labels that consumers recognize in the same way that they recognize comedy special and they go, "oh, I know what that is. That's what I want."
Justin Jackson:
They see podcasting and they go, "oh, I know what that is and that's what I want." So yeah, I think our space has really misdiagnosed what's happening here. I think people view it as something way more niche than it really is. It it really is this all encompassing platform that has completely taken over consumer attention in multiple categories.
Jeremy Enns:
I think that creators should be thinking about like what does podcasting do that YouTube doesn't? And if that's what I wanna create, like I need to go all the way on that side of things. I can't just be like waffling between, well, you know, I kinda wanted to do with you on YouTube but I also wanna do this thing and you kinda get stuck in the middle. And so I think it's important to understand like the dynamics here of like what do people expect from a podcast, what do people like from the experience of a podcast. And then if you wanna go to YouTube and the algorithmically driven route, what do people expect from that type of content and what do those algorithms reward?
Justin Jackson:
Yeah. James Cridlin has this great quote where he says, we need to market podcasting as "the content you go for when your eyes are busy," or something like that. And I think this kind of positioning of podcasting, of saying, what is podcasting, and audio podcasting in particular, good at? What is it good for? And reminding people about that.
Justin Jackson:
But also, we've got this these younger generations. Gen Z and Gen Alpha or whatever. They're gonna need to be educated. And we need to think of creative ways to sell them on audio podcasting. And one could be, hey, your brain needs a break.
Justin Jackson:
You need some calm. You you feel it. You feel like you've had too much sugar. Like here's an idea. Put your your AirPods in.
Justin Jackson:
Go for a walk. And listen to this show. And this show is going to be like a companion for you. It's gonna be talking about the issues and feelings and situations in your life that you're contemplating right now. It's going to add to your life in a totally different way.
Justin Jackson:
In the same way that you might sell someone on meditation. I think there's a version of this of podcasting is the calm alternative. When you need to get out of the house, and you just want to go for a walk, or you want to go for a drive, or you're going to do the dishes, like your eyes are busy.
Jeremy Enns:
Yeah.
Justin Jackson:
And here's something you can put in your ears that can educate you, that can inform you, that can entertain you, but in a way that's not going to make you feel sick.
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