Glory

Glory (1989) is a cinematic masterpiece that’ll hit you right in the feels! Join us on the Edward Zwick's Season as we dive into his powerful Civil War drama, featuring stellar performances from Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman, and Matthew Broderick. D

In this episode host Ryan and special guest co-host Doug unpack the emotional depth of Glory (1989), a film about the 54th Massachusetts Regiment, one of the first African-American units in the Civil War. From Denzel’s Oscar-winning performance to the haunting score by James Horner, we explore the movie’s impact, behind-the-scenes stories, and historical significance. Whether you’re a Civil War buff, a film score lover, or just here for the incredible acting, this episode has something for you!

Creators and Guests

Host

Ryan Rebalkin

Guest

Doug Greenberg

What is The Director's Chair Network?

Join Ryan and many featured guests and other hosts as they break down and review a variety of directors and their films!
So far, this podcast has featured films from Edward Zwick, John Hughes, Brian De Palma, and Michael Mann.
Soon, we will feature Edgar Wright, Sam Peckinpah, Paul Verhoeven, and David Fincher!

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[Music] [Applause]
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[Music]
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hello and welcome everyone to another episode the second episode of zwix
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flicks the Ed zwick podcast I'm your host Ryan and with me today I have a special guest co-host and friend Doug
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Doug how you doing I'm doing wonderful Ryan I'm glad that you asked me to come on and talk about this beautiful movie
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I'm really excited to have you on if you're listening to this podcast I'll give you a quick background Doug is a online friend we have yet to meet in
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person one day we will and we'll give each other a nice big be hug and a kiss on the cheek
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I might slide my hand into your back pocket you never know yeah sure absolutely slide your hand back there
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anything you got to do Doug but Doug and I met through our mutel fandom of sessor Salone and his films and we've done some
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of those reviews together so if you just really just Google last of the action heroes podcast Network all of our shows
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come up on that podcast feed you can check out all the other shows that join us on that feed regarding action films
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Stallone Arnold and all those good action stars but uh so Doug and I have collaborated before so I'm really
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excited to have him on because one he's a great voice on the Airways but also a great friend and Doug you are a fan of
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Glory correct very very correct yes my dad was was a big history buff loved all
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the old war movies and stuff so I I saw this really early on in
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19889 ' 89 I was 11 years old so I was really young I hung on every scene even
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at that young age even at that young age like you could feel the weight of of the message of the movie it was the acting
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it was the score probably most of all this movie is responsible for me falling
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in love with movie scores and and really understanding the fact that a good score
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can take a good movie and make it great it could take a great movie and make it out of this world phenomenal that's
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exactly what uh James Warner does with with this well said in fact speaking of the score it's interesting because when
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this film was finished when the principal photography and filming was done edwick took the film and showed it to the the studio heads and to get their
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feelings on it and there were people Doug already crying in the film like these grown men crying as they should be
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and as I have and I'm sure you have too with this film without the score the score wasn't done yet yeah yeah the
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first test scening to the other producers right is that the one you're talking about yeah grown men crying and
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there was no score that's how this F is and how powerful this film is now they might have had a uh a generic type score
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I'm not sure how they do these movie showings without a soundtrack maybe there's some sort of I don't know what
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do you call it a u placeholder like a yeah yeah generic the word I'm looking
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for is generic like a generic type sounding score maybe and fact I know what Studios sometimes do they'll
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actually take scores from other films that already made they'll Implement those so they'll take like a classical
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piece like where the pace would fit with right with the scene I wonder if Ed did that so he didn't say
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in his book whether he did or didn't the score Doug totally agree when some of these chords in this film hit when you
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watch it again and again I've seen this film numerous times of course over the years you just have to hear the the
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quick little score of the choir boy singing and I'm like I'm starting to tear up already you know get you just
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know what the heart punch is coming and the musical cues gets you right away into getting that te eyed absolutely
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with this film yeah so like you said Doug Yep this film did come on 1989 you were 11 I was 14 so my first memory of
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this film was I did not see in the theaters and I'm trying to remember I mean it was a long time ago now but I'm
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trying to remember why I decided to rent the film because that's what I would have done it was again 1989 was 14 I was
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deep into renting and buying VHS tapes at the time was I was a VHS collector I collect the movies all the time I
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suspect I probably rented it just because it was a war film and I'm a big fan of War films from Vietnam even at
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this at that young age vennom films any kind of War film historical War films old timey War films but definitely this
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would have been my first real Civil War type film I cried at 14 watching this
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film absolutely cried yeah again the score has a lot to do with it but you
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got to give it to edwick too this is an edwick podcast so let's give him his du like please shower on him I want him to
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come on to the podcast let's let's show out those Positive Vibes out there you got to give it to the way he directed
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those scenes that drum up the most emotion yeah we're going to talk about a couple those scenes and his experiences
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from that okay so this film Doug didn't make as much as I thought it did it was a not a box office bomb it barely broke
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even so it had a budget of $1 18 million in 88 89 and only a box office of 27
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million which is yeah it's surprising but not surprising partly because you
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think about well Ryan look at the cast look at the cast well back then this cast wasn't quite the cast that you
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would think of today had this movie been made today with these names it would have been right especially in the book excerpts that you sent me the roles that
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Denzel Washington and Morgan Freeman played before this that EDS Wick was alerted to them from playing was small
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roles in you know in small projects you know yeah well Denzel was a TV actor he
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was a elsewhere yeah it's odd to think this movie was sort of Denzel's coming
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up party and Morgan Freeman's but this movie was a big coming up party for Denzel what are your overall feelings on
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the Denzel's performance I hate to seem like a ball washer but every time I watch this I hang on every part of
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Denzel's performance like he's it's no surprise that he won the best supporting
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actor Oscar because he dove in he embodied this uh runaway slave and he
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just acted the [ __ ] out of every scene he was in it wasn't like chewing the
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scene we've seen so many actors and all the Slime movies that we do like the way they chew the scenery he wasn't he was
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just doing it he was acting I can't say enough about Denzel in this movie
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totally agree I think this movie was obviously my first introduction to Denzel I don't think i' had ever seen
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him anything I mean I was probably aware of the show at the time of St Al but I never watched it as a teenager or as a
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kid so this was um a well-deserved he got the Oscar for best support and the
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Golden Globe I believe and welld deserved for this film now keep in mind this was Ed zwick's only his second
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theatrical film to direct talk about a big jump from about last night to Glory
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did you catch any of the uh the story there about how he went from that to this I wasn't as because I was as I was
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listening to it I was doing chores so I wasn't hanging I wasn't hanging on
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the story as much all the Matthew brck stuff like bored we're get we're g to get to it we're GNA get to that yeah was
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it him that went and saw the uh the stat St you in Boston so Ed himself is a big
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Civil War buff and he was as a kid so this is something that he was always drawn to it's been in his blood since he
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was a kid so the same age that I was when I saw this film and fell in love with the Civil War history because of
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this film myself he too was a civil war fan as a as a teenager as young child he made his mom go to these Civil War
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monuments and exhibitions the poor mother's like oh my gosh but also very happy that that his her young son was
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like interested in this stuff but she was bored so he's always had fascination with this he was sent the script that
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Kevin jar had written so we're going to talk about Kevin jar if if you don't mind Doug what am I talk about him right
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now I know that he worked on the story for Rambo First Blood Part Two this guy
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he's put his fingers in a couple of movies that I'm a huge fan of and it's
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it's interesting for example Glory he wrote the screenplay for it and then he did the story for Ramble for split part
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two but he also wrote Tombstone oh man yeah that's right up your Island
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oh freck yeah maybe you should do a Kevin jar podcast no well it's funny well those are big but he also did
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judgment night which was kind of fun he did Navy Seals which was a lot of fun he did the devil's Z own with Harrison Ford
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uh he did The Jackal with Bruce Willis he did the story for The Mummy he did Rules of Engagement and then the elamo
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so he's kind of done some these fun box office type you know other than Glory a
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lot and Tombstone is just incredible they're not like Oscar bait type movies they're just kind of fun but big time
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actors have been a part of his part of his films he died at an early age heart failure at the age of 56 that's a shame
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you 56 you can still rock and roll absolutely now did you know that he had an uncredited screen rle in the movie
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Glory he was the white soldier that had the soldiers spat what did he call the
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just the soldiers fight with um Denzel Washington's character he has one of the lines that gets the Waterworks flowing
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okay right before the Fort Wagner that's right so one of the scenes that Kevin jar had and this must be really cool
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though if you think about he wrote this film now so what Ed did is he took that screenplay and he fleshed out the
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characters from that screenplay so I think what Kevin did is he kind of did like this part here this part here like
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the historical screenplay it was more of a this battle happened there were at this part now and I think Ed took that
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main story though he's not credited for it he fleshed out and gave the I think gave the story the heart that it was
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probably needing as we all know edwick is an accomplished screenwriter by his own right and understands character
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development I mean he was part of those TV shows that we mentioned in the first episode of this podcast of course 30-some and other ones that he was a
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part of so he's really good at developing his screenplay or dialogue and character development so he added
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that oomph to this film though he's not credited as a screenwriter for the film but he did say it was interesting as
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he's talking about being a director that a good director and a writer will have that kind of relationship so the
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director won't necessarily be credited as any kind of screenplay or writing but that's the collaborative effort is the
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director and the screenwriter will work together while during the filming to make the film that much of a better film so here's the one scene with Kevin jarr
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when of course the the 54th Regiment they're working the soldiers are walking through their work area coming back from
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a battle or whatever and here's some of that interaction hey come on now buck up boys hey buck up now come on
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so that's of course Denzel's trip character yelling to these soldiers like come on man being a bit of a lip here
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which is not a good idea these guys just seem battle have seen their friends be killed and he's tell them to Buck up and
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we're going to do this fight too we're going to show you how it's done see someday they going to let the 54th get into it see and all your troubles will
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be over come on now cheer hey what' you say
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boy boy so that was Kevin jar there so what' you say boy which of course is an insult do you know why it's an insult
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actually what the cultural reason for that is I'm just assuming it had to do with demeaning sleaves a better
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podcaster would have this information not ask the question do you know um the other white
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Soldier here yes I do know who that is that's the dude for Breaking Bad who rings the bell on his wheelchair Mark
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marolas yeah Tio salamona Doug coming in yeah I forgot his character or the
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actor's name but these little bit rolls I love seeing them in these little ear just such a a distinctive voice in face
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so you can pick him out easily hey let me tell you shut up you get up off me snowflake see let me explain something
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to you see the way I figure I figure this war be over a whole lot sooner if
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you boys just turn right on around head on back down that way and you let us head on up there where the real fighting
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is huh them men dying up that road and it wouldn't be nothing but revs dying if they let the 54th in
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listen all right so the fight breaks out of course Marg Freedom's character com and breaks it up and then yes the
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classic moment we're going have to show that to this is the Kevin jar redeeming moment for his character I'm glad you didn't play his uh the next line he has
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oh was it a bad word or something yeah when he Compares something to tits on a bowl oh that's right yeah that's right
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the character redeems himself so when you hear this musical C Doug you're gon to get the chill every time I could think about it
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and get the chills but it's just like the the music buildup as there for anybody that's not watching it's the
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whole Reg is walking through like a gauntlet lined side by side of of Union Soldiers just sending them off to to
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almost certain death oh [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause]
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yeah you ever get tired of it oh I'm getting the chills already I know it's
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hard not to it's a great shot too so of course for audio listeners this is that classic shot of the 54th Regiment
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walking forwards on either side of the white soldiers and you see the backsides of the black soldiers that carrying the
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colors and that music's going and then Kevin jarr redeems his [Music]
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[Applause] [Music]
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character you m before
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[Music] I literally got goosebumps man
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I me too me too every time every time also you see like trip who had the fight
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with him earlier on they share a look they share that the moment before he says that and after he says give him
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hell 54th chip you know has a smile on his face right where that queue of music
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comes in is where that smile kicks in yeah cuz he doesn't smile often in this movie no no uh the best line that Denzel
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did was at the beginning when the tent Morgan Freeman's character asked him like you know what' you do before you got here what about you D bu where about
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you from I'm around Tennessee and ran away when I 12 years
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old I ain't never look back what you doing since then I run for
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president I ain't win though
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just because at first he's a real jerk to everyone but when he cracks that joke it humanizes
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him he breaks everybody everybody laughs at that all right let's hear what Ed had to say about Denzel since we're talking
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about Denzel oh actually before we get to Denzel let's close the put a pin on uh Mr jar so it was just interesting
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that when we listened to the book Doug that Kevin and Ed they kind of buted heads but it's nice to see that they
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came together that Kevin jar allowed the film to be made that need to get made and then he had a part in the film that's very I thought that was very nice
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of all that to happen and a big moment too for Kevin to yell at that part give him hell 54 and every girl man First
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crying I mean that's that's a powerful moment that Kevin got to be in the film and to see his film come to frisen I
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would think that in any good partnership it's not going to be all sunshine and rainbows from day one to release of the
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film you know you're gonna you're gonna butt heads especially if you never worked together before also there's
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going to be some growing pains and but it's not the budding heads and it's not how it starts it's like that moment
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where you come together and and now it starts to flow now it's like playing off one another and making it work in the
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end that's what counts the next day it was time to shoot the first T scene I
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said good morning to Morgan Jimmy and Andre as they walked onto the set ready to rehearse Denzel was nowhere in sight
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after a few minutes I began to get edgy the ad told me he was still in makeup 10 minutes later I was getting angry we
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were on a a very tight schedule finally he appeared with his head shaved we'd
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never discussed it but the moment he began to rehearse I stared open mouthed
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at the utter transformation that had taken place overnight he had become trip volatile funny Angry mesmeric the next
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night as we watched da despite the wonderful specific work by the other actors in the scene it was impossible to
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take your eyes off denel that night I still couldn't sleep but wasn't anxiety
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that kept me awake I had been in the presence of greatness I'd never seen an actor command the focus by doing so
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little it wouldn't be the last time I felt that way working with Denzel neither on this movie nor in the others
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we were to make in years to come Doug you said the exact same thing about you couldn't take your eyes off him and Ed
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felt the same way watching him behind the camera here's a young director you know 35 years ago feeling exact same way
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that you expressed in this podcast you couldn't take your eyes off Denzel this was Ed seeing this transformation of the head shave they didn't talk about it he
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did that on his own what do you think of that it's very daring would you say for an actor say I'm going to shave my head yeah especially if you don't discuss
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that with the director beforehand but what can you say like yeah it might have been a bold move but it was the right
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one you know he transformed from people might have known him from saying elsewhere now all of a sudden he's a
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totally different guy you start with a clean slate now Denzel of course had a
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part in the movie which is one of the most heartbreaking transformative parts of the whole film
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and it makes me cringe every time and it's a hard one to watch it's a hard one to get through Doug the whipping scene
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yeah it is a hard pill to swallow even more so when I researched this movie a
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little bit more that this never happened in real life okay that's right we discussed of course before we started
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recording how much we're going to go into the history of things how much is is it accurate I don't think that's necessarily important so much because it
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is just a film that shares a message and I think that's what's key here is the message about the treatment of blacks so
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those they didn't do the whipping necessarily of blacks from the Army perspective yeah black people were
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whipped by white people so of course this was showing inhumane treatment that
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black people received at the hands of white people as SLA when they were slaves I think that's why the scene was
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kept what do you think what are your thoughts on why do wasn't historically accurate for Army to do that I agree and
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for all I knew until two days ago when I was researching this that it actually did happen but if you think about it the
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Union soldiers were against slavery they were abolitionists they were against the
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mistreatment of these humans so to punish him the way that all these slaves were punished on the plantations and
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stuff doesn't seem like it would fit with the Union Army's morals however I
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get why they included it here and it it's to kind of highlight and what this
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the slaves were going through you know at that time and I guess the most poent
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way to display that is to include a whipping Scene It is a powerful it's
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hard to watch because now if you're a fan of the movie and you of course you know the scene we're talking about I
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don't know how many people listening know the story behind the scene so I'll summarize a bit of it I'm going to let
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Ed finish the story without spoiling it they did do principal filming of the scene what they did they actually used a
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cloth that was enough that when Denzel was hit by this cloth this prop whip that he felt it it wasn't necessarily
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like stinging but imagine being hit by I don't know like a dish towel like you're going to feel it you can feel the impact
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but it's not going to you know break the skin or anything like that so that's what they used so John Finn who played Sergeant Major M he was nervous about
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filming the scene as well like being the guy like imagine like hey okay today's the whipping scene John you're gonna
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whip a black guy like that's probably got to be hard to film wouldn't you say yeah oh my God for him absolutely but
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the subject matter of the movie without this scene is heavy right it's just a heavy subject the movie covers Ed Wick
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even I don't know if it's in the excerpt but he claims that the tension of the actors during this scene was real and it
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was palpable like you can feel it in the air you know you're upset about filming a flogging scene as it is but these
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scenes were filmed in Georgia on the grounds where actual floggings happened hundreds of years before so all that
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combined like I think he compared it to ghosts being real like being there on set they did the principle yes thank you
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Doug that was awesome yes you're right and they already did a lot of the shots but Ed told Den hey we're going to do
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one more shot and I'm going to let him finish the story here but we did the shot again anyway as a safety mostly
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this wasn't a scene anybody wanted to have to reshoot at the end of the second take the operator signaled that we were
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good it would have been easy to move on to the reaction shots but something told me there was more to be mind I told
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Denzel we needed to adjust something at camera and that we would do the scene only once more then I took John Finn
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aside and told him not to stop whipping until I said cut he gave me a dark look but nodded grimly I walked back to
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camera made sure the dolly grip would again wait for my signal before pushing in and called action just as he had done
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on previous takes John ripped Denzel's shirt away and began to meat out the lashes once twice three times in the
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prior takes this would have been the moment for the camera to begin dollying in but I waited John raised the Whip and
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brought it down again four lashes five six on the earlier takes Denzel had
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absolutely refused to acknowledge the pain and humiliation of the moment he would take any punishment that could be
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Meed out he would show nothing he was in control seven8 but now that control had
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been taken away there he stood helpless the actor as well as the character just
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as thousands of others had stood there before abused powerless alone how long
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would this go on he must have wondered without entirely understanding what I was doing I had recreated the circumstances of over a hundred years
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before by exerting my dominion over him I was unconsciously shaming him was it
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manipulative was I violating his trust was he Furious yes to all and yet not at
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all though I hadn't told dandel the plan I somehow knew he wouldn't break character the shame and mortification
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were real Now it only made him fight harder refusing to break I stared at the monitor watching him struggle his face
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twitched I signaled the dolly grip to push in as immersed as Denzel was in the moment with The Duality of Consciousness
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reserved for only the greatest actors he could sense the camera Drawing Near digging deeper that a single tear
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appeared and slid down his face catching the light at the perfect moment is the magic of movies wow what do you say to
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that it's heavy it's it's heavy and I don't want to say manipulative of edwick
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I mean he did it for a purpose that's what directors do though a good director will do this kind of stuff this is not
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uncommon to sort of trick for example you remember the scene in Alien when the when the chest breaker
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comes out yeah yeah none of the actors knew that that was going to happen except for the actor who uh I forget his
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name top my head the actor that had the chest thing in his because he was part of makeup yeah that's right he knew that
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that was going to happen but all their reactions of the thing coming out they didn't know that was going to happen so
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them jumping off the table and screaming was real yeah so that was that was a manipulation by the director to trick
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the actors to get a real reaction a raw reaction and the fact that Ed knew that I'm going to do this to Denzel and he's
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going to be mad angry and pissed but he's going to channel that character he's not going to break he's not going to look away and I just love how that
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tear comes down Doug I mean how do you do that this has baffled me for years how
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he was able to do that but I always think of it from the character's perspective for all I knew that was how
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Denzel expected the scene to play out anyway but when you're watching it you're thinking of the character's
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perspective and this guy you know the evidence was already on his back when they ripped the shirt off I that's the
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part that's the part that makes me cringe so hard is that this back has seen hell already and just adds like it
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adds literally insult injury it's it's heartbreak you think trip as a character
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has been whipped so many times and he's probably early on shown vulnerability
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he's probably shown pain and cried but it's been done so many times that he is calloused over emotionally and mentally
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that he just stares Gould in the face takes those whippings without showing
25:00
any emotion but every man reaches a point where you just can't hold it anymore and that he doesn't ball it's
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just one single tiar his face doesn't change us it does a bit it does a bit let's actually watch a little bit and
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this is great acting by Danel there's a bit of a quiver I think in his mouth just look for it you'll see it that one single tier like shows his vulnerability
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at that time so here's the scene here
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and let's give props of course to we're going to get to Matthew guys don't worry he's going to be Sav the best for last
25:39
but let's get props here of course to the acting of Mr broadrick and as they're both looking at each other as he's watching what he has ordered to
25:45
happen yeah he's watching it play out as he's looking at and how Denzel looks him right in the face as it's happening his
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character it's just such a yeah they're both locked at each other both different Expressions on their faces but
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[Music] powerful yeah Matthew brck is showing more pain in his face than than zel is
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at this time yeah right there there's that mouth movement there as he as he tenses up you see he licks his lips a
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little bit purses his lips a little tighter but you're right though it's not like he's balling but he he purses
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himself it was crazy though you of course you can still hear the crack yeah crack you're like as a viewer you're
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like stop yeah enough he's had enough he's had
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enough and of course for our listeners he's being it for the film if you forget he's being whipped because they thought he was deserting he left the camp and he
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was caught as a quote unquote deserter and of course we find out later and I've got a story for that we won't say it now but we all know what happened or why he
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left [Music]
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oh man that gives me chills too man yeah I know it's like how the music backs off
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just a little bit right there look at the mouth do you see the mouth yeah yeah it Quivers it goes up and down yeah but
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yeah it's subtle but it's there he's just yeah
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yeah does it end I can't remember but there's a happy ending to the behind the
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scenes because I mean in the moment after it calls cut zwick goes up to Denzel tries to comfort him Denzel like
27:30
shrugs him off and and Storm's offet so zwick was like oh man I messed up but
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next day when they show up to film Denzel's smiling he's joking around with the other cast members he gives Wick a
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look and a big smile he understood the assignment as the kids say as they say and Denzel what a guy he is an actor
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where even if he's in a bad movie dog he's never bad in it yeah yeah I I love
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him I love watching in interviews and stuff he's hilarious he's a character we should cover some of his action films on
28:00
the network no I don't do I don't cover black actors okay
28:05
so oh [Laughter]
28:12
wait oh little bit of levity guys we have to have a little bit of levity after that Brew yeah it was it was too
28:18
heavy oh break the tension break the oh I love Denzel all right old joker
28:23
as okay speaking of while speaking of black actors let's talk about our next one here we'll get the Morgan a second we'll talk quickly about Andre Andre
28:30
Brower yeah rest in peace last year right yeah recent passing Doug yeah what
28:36
a horrible loss it was this film I became an Andre fan well first and foremost he passed away yes December
28:42
11th 2023 at the age of 61 did he make your worst to the best yes end of the
28:47
year yes he did I think he might have been my did you not listen to the episode yeah there's so many I can't
28:54
can't keep track of everyone I'm just bugging you check out my podcast guys if you're listening to this it's called the
29:00
worst of the best podcast and we have a yearly end episode where we cover the dead celebrities and he definitely made
29:05
the list and I don't think he was my pick I can't remember now but very close to because I've enjoyed him so he was in
29:11
of course this film was when I first got to see him as an actor he was in a great cop show called homo homicide homo
29:19
homicide homicide life on the street and of course he was in Brooklyn 99 show for
29:26
eight years did you see him as Captain Raymond Holt in that show you're a cop D are you
29:31
not a cop did you not watch Brook yeah yeah no no I I know I'm I'm kind of comparing the captain to to the guy he
29:39
plays in this movie sirs it's crazy how different people they are I know it's
29:45
I'm looking at his filmography and I haven't seen him in a whole lot frequency was a movie that I've seen a
29:50
bunch of times that's a fun movie yeah with Jim cisel and Dennis Quade yeah yeah he was in that one obviously but he
29:57
did a lot of work on TV I think his bigger stuff was TV uh anyways rest in peace of course to uh him and his family
30:03
I hope they have peace for that passing what are your thoughts on Andre's acting as a Corporal Thomas Sur I was
30:10
absolutely shocked to find out that this was his first feature yes he's great he's great in portraying his character
30:18
well spoken well educated black man born free comes from free family in the north
30:23
see I don't I don't know him that well like I haven't seen him in enough things so I don't know if he could have played like one of the Southern slaves you know
30:31
as good as the other guys doin no I think he could have he was a very accomplished I think I know what
30:37
you're saying yeah him being quote unquote the educated the snowflake as trip Boys called him because he's you
30:43
know he's Part White he's so he's very white the way he speaks as the other people would Uncle Tom Uncle Tom yeah
30:50
sure yeah he did an incredible job and uh when he of course that big moment in the film where he goes am I am I to hear
30:57
there's going to be a regiment and Rob is it true there's to be a colored
31:03
regiment so it seems then I am your first [Music]
31:13
volunteer he displayed very very raw real emotions in his emotional scenes
31:19
too oh yeah when he had to cry lots of crying from Andre uh there's that that
31:25
scene of course when he's being um they were doing the bayonet training yeah and John Finn's character says you know hit
31:31
me as hard as you can yeah and he can't and he knocks him out Jesus Mary and
31:37
Joseph what have we here Bonnie Prince Charlie and his little toy bayonet you're not reading your books now go on
31:44
go on get over get over now stab me what stab
31:51
me come on stab not tickle hit me come on you fry little school girl
31:59
you're the worst soldier in this whole company now hit
32:12
me no shame son get up
32:18
rer I'd like to speak to you for a moment in [Applause]
32:26
private listed men wishing to speak to their commanding
32:31
officer must first get permission you understand
32:40
private yes sir oh God cross develop
32:48
recover cross develop recover cross develop recover a guard develop recover
32:57
you better to put something openon that for you I want to say this too about John Finn the guy that played the drill sergeant he did an amazing job as a
33:05
drill sergeant I'll say this guys you think it's Miss treeman actually he I know it's partly because it's a film
33:10
made in modern times uh but he did a great job I I've been a drill sergeant I'm in the military I'm in the Navy but
33:17
I did two years as a drill sergeant or basic training instructor as we call it here in Canada but how he treated the
33:22
recruits was legit you know like for example when I first saw movie as a kid
33:29
or as a teenager I was appalled that he would say don't look at me you know don't look at me when he when they're
33:34
[Music]
33:41
marching take your godamn you Soldier left left right left
33:49
this funny Prince Charing are you a gentlemen are you a member of Congress or something who you the bloody Prince
33:55
of Africa but don't look at me look f head look straight ahead I Le your ass up boy but that's legit I have literally
34:02
I have literally yelled at my recruits for the same thing yeah when I'm giving them Direction like left right left and
34:08
I'm yelling at them and they'll side eye me I'll be like you I'll be like I'll C like don't you
34:15
[ __ ] look at me look straight ahead you know absolutely yeah D now I wouldn't grab their face that was one
34:20
thing I couldn't physically touched the student but them yelling that look ahead that's legit you do not look at the
34:26
instructor when he's instructing you do not look him in the eye absolutely you never looked him in the eye so when
34:31
you're at aention dug and you're dressing your U the sergeant or drill sergeant whatever sir yes sir you look
34:37
through them yeah you're the recruit so me as a as an army guy or not Army sorry Navy or military personnel I enjoyed
34:44
John Finn's acting I thought he did a great job and thing is people mistake him he actually wasn't racist he was
34:49
actually a very good instructor that's when he said to Matthew br's character at one point goes you know how long have
34:55
you been known him goes all my life or something I have no doubt that you are a fair man
35:00
M I wonder if you are treating these men too hard do you disagree you may speak
35:06
freely the boy's your friend is he we grew up together yes let him grow up
35:12
some more I see well that be all
35:18
sir yes [Applause]
35:23
dismissed you know it's cuz he actually cares about them you know can't C these guys you're going to go to battle no and
35:29
and I fully believe that he treats his white soldiers the exact same way he
35:35
called them colorful names you know some but he would call call the white
35:41
soldiers Italian of [ __ ] and you know if he had Jewish or Italian
35:48
so he would have had a hey day with Italians and Jewish people too yeah don't kid yourself if you're not Irish
35:53
in fact you have Irish recruits you probably would have called them a bunch of Irish names so when you're a recruit in boot camp and me on a smaller scale a
36:02
recruit in a police academy you are worthless okay they have to strip you
36:08
and break you down spiritually in order to build you back up into like a new a
36:15
fighter a fighting Soldier let's hear uh what Ed had to say about Andre here one evening after an exhausting day of
36:22
seeing actors in Manhattan she announced that if we hurried we could make it to the senior Showcase of graduating actors
36:28
of juliard there was someone she wanted me to see we fought our way up town in a torrential storm and found seats in the
36:34
back row of the Peter J sharp theater at Lincoln Center Andre Brower was nothing less than a revelation I'd never seen
36:41
such power and command in a young actor his parents had wanted him to become an engineer but everybody in that theater
36:47
could tell his Destiny was elsewhere it made no difference that he'd never been on a movie set before we cast him the
36:53
next day as Corporal Thomas surles yeah mhm all right now let's move to Mr
36:59
Morgan Freeman so did you know anything about Morgan Freeman before you saw this film I must have because he didn't look
37:05
like a stranger to me the first time I saw this but I don't know what I would have seen him in yeah I don't think he did I don't think we did it's
37:11
interesting Moran Freeman he's a late bloomer to the industry if you could believe he's 87 now by the way yeah I
37:16
think one of his big movies too one of his first big movies of course was Driving Miss Daisy for example yeah this
37:22
had to be the first movie I saw him in I can't imagine it was yeah it must it must have been with me too but but now
37:28
we've seen him in so many things that he's always been familiar to us yeah if you look at his stuff before there's
37:34
nothing here I would have oh that's where I saw him from so Glory was his big break because right after Glory was
37:39
Driving Miss Daisy then lean on me and then all these other oh yeah yeah yeah Robin Hood prince of Thieves he was
37:45
great he great I love him that and then of course again I'm a huge Western fan I
37:50
know one of these days I'm still gonna do my Western podcast it might be the one after this one actually but he was in Unforgiven with clinty s like then he
37:56
was in of course with Brad Pit Morgan Freeman has endless endless roles of just being Morgan Freeman but yeah this
38:03
would have been the first one so I'm going to make that call Doug this is the first one that we both would have known him as an actor or seen him as an actor
38:09
here's what Ed had to say about Morgan Freeman had made a strong impression on me as the terrifying pimp and street
38:14
smart so I didn't know what to expect when we met he walked into my office sat down and gave me the warm open smile
38:22
that was to become his signature over the course of an extraordinary career you got me was all he said thus began
38:29
one of the most rewarding relationships I'd had yet with an actor mostly because I hardly had to say a word his
38:34
performance as Sergeant Major John Rollins was spectacular from the first shot Morgan had gone through tough times
38:40
earlier in his career he was quite open about it and even more vocal about the serenity he'd found in sobriety His Kind
38:46
steadying presence was something I came to rely on when things got tough yeah
38:51
that tracks he also kind of played sort of a role in real life similar to his
38:57
character when Ed zwick he went to Morgan Freeman to kind of like get a temperature of how everybody's doing if
39:03
anybody needed anything on set just like his character in the movie did with
39:08
Colonel Shaw yeah this scene this scene is now okay guys of course if you're
39:13
listening with kids in the car or whatever it is I'm not I'm not going to edit it for the purposes of uh the
39:19
podcast because it is done by of course the actor in the film The nword is used but I just want to give a I don't know
39:24
not sa for work or whatever just a heads up so but this scene uh incredible acting by Morgan Freeman trip is
39:30
basically making fun of suros played by Andre making fun of his character you know calling him you know making fun of
39:36
him and saying you're just like you look like a he's been derog he's been racist towards Andre about his blackness in a
39:43
sense because he's trying to take care of himself he's trying to look Smart in his uniform he's been egging him on the whole film that's right this is what the
39:49
one time think he wants to fight him he wants to fight him and he's just waiting for Sirles to to make the first move
39:56
before you this is another scene where it's focusing on Morgan Freeman because he's the one with the monologue but I
40:04
Can't Take My Eyes Off of den zeldor all you're right you're right I mean yeah there's act
40:09
the to to everything yeah come on [ __ ] all all right hey get
40:16
your hands off me grave dick [ __ ] God damn it the whole world got a stump in your face [ __ ] you better get your
40:21
hands off me ain't no [ __ ] around here you hear me oh I see so the white man give you a couple of Stripes next thing you know you Hing ordering everybody
40:28
around like you the master hisself [ __ ] you ain't nothing but the white man's dog
40:34
[ __ ] and what are you so full of hatred just want to go out and fight everybody
40:40
cuz you've been whipped and chased by hounds well that might not be living but it's sure as hell ain't dying and dying
40:46
is what these white boys been doing for going on 3 years now Dying by the thousands dying for you
40:52
fool I know cuz I dug the graves and all the time I'm digging I'm asking my self
40:57
when when oh Lord is going to be our time but time's coming when we're going to have to Handy up handy up and kick in
41:04
like men like men you watch who you call a [ __ ] there
41:11
any [ __ ] around here is you smart mouth stupid ass swamp Running [ __ ] if
41:17
you ain't careful that's all you ever going to
41:22
be you men going back to business woo man man the acting from
41:28
these that is acting Doug that is what you call acting yeah yeah it is that
41:34
gave me chills too like qualties I know we can just play the whole movie we should probably just turn off the podcast everyone go watch the film it's
41:41
a lot better than what we're doing popcorn we'll have a you know one of those uh everybody watch yeah watch
41:47
alongs just continuing after Rollins walks away the camera stays on Denzel
41:53
and as he like lets his words sink in it's a brilliant piece of acting Again by Denzel I can't wash his balls enough
42:01
he's just just amazing C them and wash them Doug C them and wash them that whole monologue it's so God it's there's
42:07
only one character that can take control and really hit those words and make them
42:14
Hammer home to trip and that's Rollins all right here's another uh something
42:19
else Ed had to say about Morgan we never wanted to talk much about his scenes yet he always managed to make known how he
42:25
wanted me to Stage them one night we were shooting the moment where Shaw Comes to Morgan's character Rollins and
42:31
asks for his help as we rehearsed I noticed that Morgan never once looked Matthew in the eye just as I was about
42:38
to move the camera to catch his look I realized that he was making the point of not looking at him not out of defiance
42:45
but as a black man who had lived a lifetime wey of being punished for being upid he couldn't risk being
42:52
confrontational with his white Superior to watch him struggle with the Dilemma of how to make it known to Shaw that the
42:58
men need good shoes and yet never meet his gaze is a lesson in subtlety finally
43:04
as Shaw is walking away Rollin can no longer contain himself shoes he says
43:10
still looking straight ahead the men need shoes in that moment a bond is
43:15
formed between them and for that Shaw later names him the first black non-commissioned officer Brad Pit said
43:22
something to me years later about Morgan after working with him on seven he's the master Brad said the thing about Morgan
43:29
is you never see him move effortless effortless at is acting that's how I took that it's just you see him act in
43:36
that movie and it just seems like when Morgan acts I think it's a combination of the Timber of his tone and his voice
43:41
uh the way he's able to enunciate words it's every time he speaks people always joke like if anyone could narrate my
43:47
life it' be Morgan Freeman because there's something about the way he speaks and he's always like in the movies that he does later on he's always
43:53
like the stoic guy he's always the guy that knows all the information you know you need something you go to him in this
43:59
he's like a submissive he's like a guy that's uneducated he's a guy that just
44:05
just barely making it through life as a you know former slave it's a weird
44:10
contrast to what we know him as but I mean he doesn't miss a beat so Jimmy the
44:16
actor Jimmy who played Jupiter sharts yes this guy the best the best character
44:23
name the way he acts his name is what's his name again Jimmy Jimmy Kennedy Jimmy
44:28
Kennedy have you ever seen this guy since or before never seen him before since what an anomaly now he's been in
44:35
stuff like he's been in stuff but his acting in this movie as this I hate to
44:41
say simple person but he's a little bit not too [Music]
44:46
bright good book brother yes it is actually name s Thomas s j the shot what
44:54
about that book it's a collection of essays actually um forier Amerson all the
45:00
transcendentalists got pictures no yes i' be
45:07
happy stutters he doesn't know his left from his right that was a great Moment by John Finn when he's teaching them how
45:12
to March Cy H for God's sake man do you not know your right from your left no no
45:18
no sir how many here do not know right from
45:25
left Jesus this is your front this is your rear
45:32
this is your right and this now you're learning boyo company
45:38
forward March what what what boy yeah
45:43
you got it boo or now you're learning now you're learning well here's what had to say about Jimmy Kennedy was a
45:50
graduate of the University of North Carolina School of the Arts a well-trained actor for years he had only
45:56
managed to find mind work as a day player on TV series yet I sensed in him none of the Telltale hunger of someone
46:02
looking for his big break Jimmy's audition was Earnest and heartbreaking
46:08
as we got to know each other I learned he was deeply religious Faith would become a central underpinning of the
46:14
movie Jimmy's shown like a beacon he became private Jupiter sharts the fourth
46:20
soldier in the tent his sweet sweet innocence was such a you just wanted to
46:26
you wanted to protect him and he was such just a naive but sweet heartbreaking that the word that Ed
46:31
zwick used there was a perfect description of him because like in that scene where he's shooting the glass
46:37
bottles and then yes gold is trying to get him to load his rifle and shoot quickly which I understand Matthew br's
46:45
character was proven a point that it's great to load at at your leisure and shoot at a glass bottle but when you
46:52
have to do it quickly when somebody's trying to kill you he was just trying to make point and Jupiter sharts didn't
46:59
really understand that he was he was scared he was actually scared during that scene and it was heartbreaking to
47:06
see him like shaking and like
47:12
jittery attention company attention
47:18
company as you were sent
47:28
you're a good shot private thank you sir squirrel hunt it's just right there the
47:34
idea of like thank you squirrel Hunter the idea like shot squirrels it's like the innocent you know Meek he's very
47:42
Meek but he's so proud of himself here because this is a very heartbreaking scene because he's got the adulation of
47:48
his uh friends or the regiment they're all cheering him on making bets even Morgan Freeman's character was making
47:53
bets like you could give me 20 dimes or whatever it is 20 right now right now he's on top of the world but
48:00
yeah yeah right he couldn't be happy with that big smile on his face oh this is going to be a good day
48:07
for you ever killed a man no no sir but you're handy with a gun yes
48:15
sir just what he's answering well yes sir I'm handy with a gun he's very happy very proud of himself this is a good day
48:20
he's talking to the CEO of the company this is good reload Happ reloads he gets his
48:27
ammunition he's smiling still oh yeah he's like I'll show them everyone you know puts it in and faster he's like
48:35
yeah okay I can go faster he goes a little bit faster like oh sure faster now he starts to P faster yeah now he's
48:42
panicking like why is he yelling at me what's going on I thought I was doing good I thought I was discharge your [Applause]
48:48
weapon discharge your weapon do it
48:56
do it again only this time I want it done quickly again he's training him properly this is proper and he tells the
49:02
men hey everyone we can fire three a shots in a minute which is crazy back then Doug the fight know three shots in
49:08
a minute and then of course he asked for the uh revolver from uh his 2ic give it to
49:15
me now we're all thinking is watching for the first he's to execute him
49:22
reload now this would be frightening quickly faster
49:28
that right there jumpiness he's
49:33
frightened do it do it do
49:39
it do it he just stops panic attack he can't do it he just drops the ram rod
49:45
yep he doesn't even finish he can't load no that right there his shaky hand
49:52
reaches up to take the uh the ammunition paper out and he's got he's got gun powder on his lip which I love too it's
49:57
a very subtle but you can see the gun powder on his lip from taking the packet out with with his mouth yeah an amazing
50:03
scene by Jimmy amazing all right uh we won't play the clip that he talks about Carrie but basically long story short
50:09
regarding Carrie only a very short thing to say that Carrie EES uh how you say his last name Al or Elway Al sorry
50:17
i h he was in The Princess Bride of course uh EDS Wick loved them in The Princess Bride and he was just very
50:23
happy that Carrie's like no I want to be in this film took a cut and Pace I'm going to be on this film believed in the project from the beginning and I suspect
50:29
Carrie was already a season actor and just gave had no problems whatsoever and he was great in the film what do you think of Carri in the film yeah he he
50:35
was great he was great he did The Princess Bride before this he was the the lead actor in that so for him to
50:41
take a secondary role to so to speak the and but he didn't try to like show up
50:46
anybody he he knew the assignment too yeah he did it's interesting because he took a second role to Matthew Brodrick
50:53
So within the film but also within the billing of the film so no car did great uh and there was no real story I I
50:59
suspect there was no stories to share I think Ed would just I think he basically said Carrie was great and everything you
51:04
saw he did well so there's some really great I can't recommend this book highly enough folks so obviously I don't want
51:10
to play the whole chapter that he doesn't glory and trust me I can't it was like 40 minutes long but he just
51:16
gave great accolades is what I'll say there's a clip that I just for sake of time won't play but he gives some great accolades regarding the four main black
51:23
actors that we've spoken about Jimmy Andre Morgan and Denzel basically what at Z said those four were the tent pole
51:30
they were the spirit of they were the whole movie Everything hinged on their performances and he did mention boy let
51:38
me just say I want to share a clip play it okay with Denzel Morgan Jimmy and
51:44
Andre had begun it's possible that four other actors might have had the same kind of chemistry they did but I doubt
51:51
it it was mesmerizing everybody had something to contribute to the scenes as
51:56
we began to do improvisations Jimmy stayed in character the whole time Andre
52:01
was tentative at first but gradually began to feel safe watching his creation
52:07
of the character of Sur was dazzling Denzel was more restrained I sensed him feeling his way toward trip he wasn't
52:14
yet ready to take the plunge one scene we worked on was the impromptu prayer meeting the enlisted men hold on the eve
52:20
of going into battle I had seen Morgan preach in the gospel at Colonus at the Brooklyn Academy of Music he could
52:27
Thunder like Hellfire and just as quickly murmur words as comforting as a soothing balm Jimmy attended the local
52:33
Baptist Church on his days off Jimmy invested the character of chartz with his own pure simple belief I knew
52:41
Denzel's father was a Pentecostal preacher who ran two churches but when it came his turn during rehearsal to
52:47
testify he stuck to the script often mumbling revealing little of what was
52:52
going on inside at first I was confused even been a bit anxious yet the other
52:58
actors didn't seem to mind at all this I would come to understand was Denzel's process he was preparing and in the
53:06
meantime he was simply incapable of doing anything inauthentic what he'd be like on the day
53:12
I'd have to wait and see they were hearing music I couldn't even imagine yet during each session a Transcendent
53:19
moment usually Unwritten would occur this part I just want to point out is really really I think a real special
53:25
moment this is the part I really wanted to focus on though what we just heard was really cool but this this is just uh
53:30
Ed just reminiscing about how these four guys brought this movie together it was at once thrilling and daunting like
53:38
realizing you're on a runaway train to an unknown destination the best thing I could do I realized was Shut Up and Hold
53:45
On Tight any worries I might have had about being a white kid presuming to tell black men about their experience
53:50
had vanished by the end of the first rehearsal if a line in the script didn't work they massaged it it or
53:57
instinctively came up with a better one dialogue I feared might be cliched made them laugh the racial slurs they came up
54:03
with were much worse than anything I had dared right yeah and I would suspect that part that we played with Morgan Freeman's character
54:11
loud I don't think Ed wrote that that's what he's like I'm not gonna write that
54:17
and that's what he's saying is they came up with the stuff that they needed needed to for their characters amazing
54:23
voices of their parents and grandparents of ANC ERS they'd never met were so
54:28
available to them they fell into their rhythms with good humor and without the slightest self-consciousness just as I
54:33
might have done of imitating my immigrant grandfather I scribbled notes constantly stealing bits of dialogue of
54:41
behavior from an improv that I could repurpose while shooting when I did have an idea about a scene their attitude was
54:47
unflaggingly receptive and generous why I was surprised by this reveals the depth of my own anxiety and
54:54
Prejudice I count those days in the dingy rehearsal room as the true beginning of my career as a film
55:00
director so there you go that's what he started to feel like a film director that's one of the excerpts that I timestamped because okay good how deep
55:07
and meaningful like his own Prejudice being exposed because he didn't realize
55:14
that the black actors could do what they were doing yeah well it's tough like let's be honest I mean to write a such a
55:22
sensitive you have Kevin jar is white who wrote the screenplay Edwards Wick is white they're not black people and
55:28
they're writing dialogue and history and emotions to like what's their experience in this field and the fact that the
55:36
actors kind of knew they were dealing with this they didn't begrudge him they didn't mistreat him they didn't say oh
55:42
you don't know what it's like to be us you don't understand what it's like to they embraced this whole story because it went beyond Edwards Wick's directing
55:49
they knew the story that was being shared was more important than any kind of egos or color who's making the
55:55
costumes who's directing the film who's the editor didn't matter they're the actors they're the black actors and like
56:01
you're talking about before they knew their mission and they totally killed was there a bad acting scene by really
56:06
anyone let alone the four main black actors I mean they were just insanely good they were yeah we are going to get
56:13
to Matthew bro hanging there folks but before we do let's talk about that prayer meeting what are your thoughts on that prayer meeting you know watching it
56:19
not knowing any of the backstory just how what what in good spirits these guys were in kind of knowing that they're
56:27
they're going into their their death it's czy and the way I've never been to like one of those Baptist Churches
56:33
that's all about you know the the singing and the chanting and everything but you can tell that these guys are you
56:40
know that how they live that's how they grew up that's what they're used to because like the stuff that they come up with saying like Jupiter Shard saying
56:47
you know let me fight with the rifle one hand and the good book in theed
56:53
[Music] for I don't know about you but I I love
56:58
the singing I always M I love how everyone stop to do the mhm part to give
57:03
someone a chance to talk I love they kind of keep the beat going I love it I just love it the backstory to this oh my
57:11
Lord uh oh let's play Let's play that first then actually let's play that the prayer meeting known as the shout wasn't
57:18
supposed to be shot for weeks but a sudden schedule change obliged us to get it without any warning or Preparation I
57:26
had hadn't come up with a tune for the men to sing nor had the composer team had time to build the click track we
57:32
didn't even have a pitch pipe in such circumstances there's only one thing to do fake it by this point in the
57:40
production the dress extras had become the de facto face of the regiment a kind of mute chorus always to be found
57:47
strategically placed around the principles there as spree decor was remarkable uncomplaining whether
57:53
trudging through feted swamps being knocked around in hand-to-hand combat or making up profane marching songs as they
58:00
tried to keep dry in one of the wetest Georgia Springs on record I'll refrain from quoting some of their more
58:06
profanity laced dides most of them referencing the [ __ ] director who was forcing them to stand for hours in the
58:12
pouring rain I love that I love how he references verse ending with a dirty
58:19
rhyme for zwick but it was this irreverent tune that became the basis for one of the most moving moments in
58:25
the film all it took was a quick rewrite from the Blasphemous to the biblical
58:30
[ __ ] rain rain rain rain became oh my
58:37
lord lord lord lord I love that so what I what I love about this they took
58:43
lemons and they made lemonade out of that scenario where they're in these you know terrible conditions they're getting dumped on rained on and they're singing
58:50
songs about the weather and Ed Wick's like hey I think I like that singing keep it up guys let's change the lyrics
58:56
little bit though for the movie it sounds like something that would have been sung back then and then of course
59:01
uh he goes into Jimmy and I love what I love and we're going to see it when we get to the prayer meeting video when we go back to it but Jimmy when he does his
59:09
testimony that's him that's the actor yeah that wasn't written no and I also
59:14
found it kind of refreshing because he's been like this quiet Meek character but here he's confident you know he's the
59:21
first one to step up and testify with confidence you know absolutely right because as a actor and within his
59:27
character this is his this is his strength or this is where he excels is the spirituality uh religion this is his
59:35
home turf so absolutely he's going to kind of lead the chorus of testimonies and voila a spiritual was born we shot
59:42
all night in a freezing drizzle if you look closely you can see the condensation of the men's breath as they
59:48
huddle together to keep warm Jimmy was the first to testify his words in the
59:54
scene as with the other actors were mostly his own that's awesome with his shining face lit from within his eyes
1:00:00
focused heavenward he set the tone with a simple unadorned speech I just love
1:00:05
the way he presents it his eyes are kind of bugged out a little bit he's yeah it's just it it feels real it feels real
1:00:12
like they kind of caught on camera a real testimony meeting Morgan was up next when he preached in the gospel at
1:00:19
Colonus it was an artfully written rehearsed performance he'd had no time to prepare for this night the speech he
1:00:26
improvised was magnificent and when he reached its Epiphany with a beatific smile and began to clap in double time
1:00:34
you could feel the spirit rising to his call then it was Denzel's turn I had no
1:00:40
idea what he was going to say there were lines written but he didn't need them
1:00:45
despite his background in his father's Church he'd never really taken part in our improvs for the scene but as he
1:00:51
stood before the other actors feeling their love and encouragement his alienation became his subject and his
1:00:59
truth the shout is my favorite scene in the movie mhm I'd like to think it not only captures the belief and sacrifice
1:01:06
of the characters but also the commitment of those who made
1:01:12
[Applause] [Music] [Applause]
1:01:24
it marrow we go into battle all right so
1:01:30
lordy let me fight with the rifle in one hand and good good book in the
1:01:39
other that if I should die at the muzzle of the
1:01:44
rifle die on water or on land I may know that you blessed Jesus
1:01:54
Almighty are with me we and I have no
1:02:02
fear amen amen I love the way he says or
1:02:07
annunciates the or on land I just love the way he says that part I don't know why he's just such a sweetheart I just
1:02:14
love it I just love it okay now let's talk about the score then we're going to
1:02:19
get to Matthew so overall what's your feelings on we just say it again but well actually just hear the words of Ed
1:02:25
we we'll comment on what he said about the score because it we've already sort of spoken to it so let's see hear what
1:02:31
he says first back to working with James her on the score Glory was the first of
1:02:36
several films he and I were to do together his combination of Mastery and sensitivity was exactly right how to
1:02:43
give a musical voice to a story that's the challenge presented to a composer when he first looks at an unfinished
1:02:50
film inevitably there are certain mundane tasks to be addressed the transition to be smooth Smooth by a
1:02:56
musical slight of hand a sequence that can be better knitted together to help underline a theme or a
1:03:02
relationship but not until that mysterious process begins when the composer sits alone at his keyboard and
1:03:10
out of absolute Stillness dares move his fingers across the same 12 keys that have been struck by composers for
1:03:15
hundreds of years does a kind of alchemy begin some magical process of passion
1:03:22
pain Instinct and craft crystallizes as a musical phrase emerges that manages to
1:03:28
express something far beyond the limitation of words or a Melody seems to materialize from the deepest part of an
1:03:34
actor's Soul I'd always imagined using the sound of boy Sopranos in glory to me the
1:03:41
innocence in their voices evoked the purity of the men's belief James agreed and we began inquiring about English boy
1:03:48
choruses it was Freddy Fields who came up with the idea of the Boy Choir of Harlem the studio was suddenly feeling
1:03:54
bullish about theie mov prospects so we were able to convince them to fly 80 boys and their director Walter J
1:04:00
Turnbull out to LA for the session for many of them it was their first time on a plane we recorded the score over three
1:04:08
days on the famous lion Newman stage at MGM the sound of a hundred piece
1:04:13
Orchestra topped off by a chorus of angelic voices endowed the images with a Grace and tragedy no dialogue could ever
1:04:21
Express neither before or since have I seen a room full of jaded Hollywood session musicians in tears words spread
1:04:28
on the lot and other directors began dropping in at one point while trading
1:04:33
on the privilege of sitting among the orchestra to listen I happened to glance back toward the engineers booth and at
1:04:40
various times saw that Paul mersi Bob zamus and Steven Spielberg had stopped
1:04:45
by to observe it felt like my bar mitzvah and some sense I suppose it was
1:04:51
yeah I mean what else do you say I mean it's uh just the fact that other people were dropping in just to like sit in on
1:04:58
on the scores that shows you something that they were on the right track the whole time having the the Harlem Boy
1:05:04
Choir too was nice touch perfect yeah I mean it wasn't pandering it just made
1:05:09
sense let's have a black choir say I assume it was a black choir from Harlem yeah it's more than appropriate and it
1:05:15
was so be I mean the session musicians the people performing the music were crying the music does that man there's
1:05:22
something about this music I don't know how people get through without cry they must have been I'm a a score guy you
1:05:28
know like I I love musical scores I'm huge Star Wars fan and I I love the score in Star Wars but the score in Star
1:05:35
Wars doesn't ever bring me to tears really you know what I mean it's it's a beautiful score but like this really
1:05:43
drums up some emotion man well let's get to the part of the film that makes most
1:05:48
of men cry especially me of course is right at the end so of course they had the big battle the dead bodies on the
1:05:54
beach mhm and there's that choir Doug
1:06:01
[Music] mhm sounds like ghostly voices yeah over
1:06:07
a graveyard you [Music] know but Angels at the same time kind of
1:06:13
say he did well he did well boys yeah and this part always kills me
1:06:18
because it's the enemy flag going up you know what that flag that means they lost they didn't win the battle they didn't take the fort no
1:06:30
[Applause]
1:06:38
all the B's being disposed of now this is a interesting point of History here
1:06:44
accurate yeah is having Robert Shaw buried with the black soldiers was actually supposed to be an insult to
1:06:50
Robert to be buried with black people it was actually an insult to have that happen to him you notice the uh Confederates took all their shoes too
1:06:57
yes that's right good call good catch I mean [Music]
1:07:08
yeah I love that voice change the tone change the body of Shaw
1:07:15
being picked up he rolls down the oh
1:07:21
[Music]
1:07:29
[Music]
1:07:36
[Applause] [Music]
1:07:47
of course trip is thrown on top of him mhm I mean do you feel it I got the
1:07:55
chills yeah I feel it interesting um real historical tidbit uh later on after
1:08:02
the war G's family was was asked if they want his body exhumed and given a proper
1:08:07
burial up in Boston and his father refused he said no he's he's right where he's meant to be among the soldiers that
1:08:15
that uh he commanded and respected him well said now I guys I know this is a I
1:08:21
have to treat this film for better for worse as I'm going to do with all the films in Edo's film CRI meaning like we could spend 10 hours on this film oh my
1:08:28
God like we could do a minute by minute Doug we could do a minute by minute and I could and I would love to do that
1:08:33
maybe one day maybe we will maybe Doug and I we'll do a minute by minute just me and you anyways we'll get to that
1:08:39
later however this is more of just a like we did with about last night we talk about the actors you know what the
1:08:44
film meant to us we're not going to go scene by scene we're not going to play every scene because it's just go watch the movie I can't say that enough even
1:08:51
with the about last night I was saying you can listen to that episode if you haven't seen the movie really didn't spoil anything go go watch it enjoy it
1:08:56
it's fun this movie too go watch it again if it's been a long time go watch it again but now we got to talk about
1:09:02
something that I did not know about until I read the book is Matthew broadrick now before we get to Edwards Wick's account of Matthew bradick what
1:09:08
are your thoughts on him in the film an odd choice I felt because I've only
1:09:14
known him as Ferris buer before this in a goofy comedy and you were even a little bit younger than me and I was 14
1:09:21
so I was like a mid- teenager so I was very aware of who he was and knew him as a comedy kind of actor like a
1:09:28
light-hearted type actor from the ferris berer and some other films bloxy Blues stuff like that and so I knew that he
1:09:33
was a sort of a comedic type actor uh yeah yeah but the moment he begins
1:09:39
talking and the narration of his well that opening sequence of of the battle when he's getting fixed up in the uh in
1:09:45
the infirmary there yeah I I was bought in I will say this despite some of the things we're going to share especially
1:09:51
people don't know about this he was absolutely amazing in this film yeah his
1:09:57
dialogue scenes were it didn't capture me as much as his non-verbal scenes like the he very good nonverbal the one the
1:10:04
the one we covered with h trip getting flogged that his non-verbal acting and that at the end remember um when he's
1:10:11
standing by the ocean and he jumps off the horse and he lets the horse go and he's just staring at the ocean the look
1:10:16
on his face the thoughts that's a very powerful 30 seconds or so of film he's
1:10:23
looking out into the into the Serene ocean with the seagulls meanwhile
1:10:28
there's bombs exploding over his shoulder at the Fort it's it's like a really beautiful like deep scene
1:10:35
completely nonverbal looking out look at the ocean for one last
1:10:40
time of course the score highlighting it yeah this is the
1:10:47
[Music] theme he's holding back tears yeah he's
1:10:54
looking back over at the four that they're about to uh storm he knows that death is
1:10:59
coming there's that score [Music] [Applause]
1:11:05
[Music]
1:11:14
[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]
1:11:28
[Applause] and then the change in the scores as he steals his resolve it's like here we go
1:11:34
we're doing it those are the moments that I really appreciate him in this film and he did have a passing
1:11:41
resemblance to the car uh to the real life person have you seen the photos of Robert Shaw yeah very youthful looking
1:11:47
guy yeah I mean they're about the same age at the time of filming and at a goatee there and he looks just like
1:11:53
likea to some degree I thought Matthew was great but I'm a little surprised about here we go we've talked the good
1:12:00
now we got to get to the Bad and the Ugly yeah unfortunately here we go no matter how impressed the studio was by
1:12:07
the script or by the footage we'd shown them they agreed to go forward for only one reason Matthew bradrick agreed to
1:12:14
play Robert Gul Chaw this might seem bizarre given that Matthew stardom and Hollywood's estimation had come only
1:12:21
recently because of Ferris bu's day off a delightful John Hughes movie but as different in tone from Glory as any two
1:12:27
movies could be also that Matthew's box office appeal such as it might be was
1:12:32
probably limited to teenage girls but this is often how Studios think they needed a marquee name as it was
1:12:39
explained to me to protect their downside this isn't to take anything away from Matthew's
1:12:46
ability I considered him an extremely talented actor and could certainly imagine him doing the part which he did
1:12:52
and we talked about that so I was right like this is his product on the film I don't think was ever in question I don't
1:12:58
think in fact did you catch any of that through Ed's description of Matthew that
1:13:03
what was shown on screen was poorly done no in no way did did it seem like he
1:13:10
wasn't Allin yeah but what so people are what are you guys talking about well keep listening I guess he was also
1:13:16
roughly the same age as Shaw and even more a passing resemblance the problem
1:13:21
was that the studio actually told Matthew they were only making the movie because of him this was a horrible thing
1:13:27
to do to a young actor to have such a huge psychological burden placed on his
1:13:32
shoulders was the opposite of how he should have been made to approach a difficult part in an arguably risky
1:13:39
movie Matthew was already carrying quite a heavy karmic burden for someone his age now did you know the story that was
1:13:46
coming up what he experienced at a young age no no I I had no idea yeah so this
1:13:53
is this is what makes a little bit would say not heartbreaking is the right word but just like Matthew at this young age
1:13:59
so he was told basically look you're going to you're the star of this film we're doing this film because of you
1:14:04
this film was right on your shoulders and this is kind of how they hyped them up for it and then he experienced this
1:14:09
as well at the same time the year before while driving with Jennifer Gray in Ireland on route to pick up his mother
1:14:16
at the airport he had veered into the wrong lane and hit an oncoming car head on killing its driver and passenger
1:14:23
Matthew himself had suffered serious injuries resilient and mentally tough he
1:14:29
had gotten through it that's insane so he's been carrying that burden I know there's you can actually Google it and
1:14:34
there's some real tragedy there I believe the family sued or he settled or something like that but what a terrible
1:14:41
burden to carry that your careless essentially wasn't Criminal he wasn't drunk but it was careless driving or you
1:14:48
know he crossed Lanes he went into the oncoming traffic probably fooling around Jennifer who knows right look they're
1:14:54
young kids probably fooling around with Jennifer kissing her or something you know they were dating he he hit a car and the
1:15:01
other two people died it could have just been easily him and Jennifer that died but it was a poor mother daughter combo that died still it's hard to imagine the
1:15:08
lingering price he must have paid now finding himself about to make an ambitious movie Matthew felt he
1:15:15
needed help unfortunately he didn't think I was the person who could give it to him I can understand why he was wary
1:15:23
of me from the start he had want Tonia 21 and was accustomed to rarified New
1:15:28
York circles to that way of thinking I was a lightweight I'd only made one
1:15:33
feature a romantic comedy set in Chicago's bar scene yeah go check out episode one of the podcast folks where
1:15:40
Katie and I cover that film that Edward was refering to it's a good episode most of all I was a TV guy what did I know
1:15:48
about fil making on an epic scale admittedly I had done little to suggest I could handle the logistics the stars
1:15:55
or the spectacle and while I have no idea who was whispering in Matthew's ear
1:16:01
I know enough about the legions of ass kissers and EG Strokers who attach themselves to a rising star that I can
1:16:08
imagine what he was being told you should be working with Spielberg you need a big director you need to be
1:16:17
protected a short time after Matthew agreed to do the movie he suddenly announced he was
1:16:23
quitting I couldn't have known there were other forces influencing him one of whom was his mother py who had read the
1:16:29
script and hated it it's so crazy that his mother was so involved with this in in his ear as well
1:16:35
so she reads the script it says this is garbage why are you doing why are you doing this film at this point was still
1:16:43
off stage her unseen hand unknown to all Matthew and I hadn't even met in person
1:16:49
yet he was in Manhattan and I was with my wife and son in a little cabin at 9,000 feed in Crested be Colorado my
1:16:57
only means of communication with Matthew was an ancient Radio phone I had inherited from the previous owner as
1:17:04
with a walkie-talkie it was necessary to hold down the PTT push the talk button
1:17:09
and then say over when you wanted the other party to speak this is very telling here so here he is he's you know
1:17:16
on vacation with his family they're about to go filming he's got a star he's talking to the main star on this push
1:17:21
the Talk phone I've talked on satellite phones before on a ship and you have to do that because if you if even if the
1:17:27
other person laughs it interrupts your part of the call so you have to remain silent let the person say so when I talk
1:17:33
to my ex-wife back in the day on those satellite phones when I was sailing you'd have to be like how are the kids
1:17:39
over and then she would be like oh we're doing okay over hey that's wonderful to
1:17:44
you're here honey how are you doing over and so that's what Ed saying here that
1:17:49
he had to do with but Matthew in a bit of a power play or I'm not going to do that kind of
1:17:55
it's kind of telling a little bit like why are you not we got to be able to communicate properly why are you not
1:18:01
doing over as well it was beneath him I think and that's the feeling I Got What It Seems like yeah the connection was
1:18:06
crackly and sporadic and it always seemed at its worst when we'd speak one day it broke down altogether and I had
1:18:13
to Snowshoe 2 miles down the mountain in a blizzard to a pay phone to hear Jeff tell me that Matthew was quitting again
1:18:20
calm down Jeff what happened he's trashing the script says it needs a complete rewrite okay I'll call him I
1:18:28
called Matthew the radio phone was working again hi Matthew I hear you want
1:18:33
to talk about the script over yeah well I have a lot of notes he
1:18:39
neglected to say over in fact in all our conversations on the radio phone he petulant refused to say it so I never
1:18:47
quite knew when he was done talking or it was time for me to PT let me hear your notes I really want
1:18:53
to know what you're thinking over as Matthew went through the script his thoughts were all about his
1:18:59
character no surprises there but there was something unspoken something he didn't want to get into and no matter
1:19:06
how I tried to pry it Loose he remained vague and taciturn As I understood them his notes
1:19:12
weren't extensive and they felt doable it certainly didn't sound like he was trashy in the script I told him i' dig
1:19:19
into the scenes and send him Pages he seemed satisfied and clearly wanted to get off the the phone I said over and
1:19:27
out and we hung up he was back in the movie for now this
1:19:33
sort of sets the tone here of kind of off to a rocky start would you say Doug yeah very Rocky you go into this project
1:19:40
with a chip on your shoulder immediately where do you go from there so his mother I think at this time where we find a
1:19:45
lady the mother's squeaking into his ear she was not interested in this being a black film it was about the 54th
1:19:52
Regiment she was more interested about being Matthew br's big Oscar winning moment type film so let's give get him
1:19:58
more scenes she wanted like a whole background scene of him as a kid and everything but yeah there was a lot of
1:20:04
scenes that they wanted to film that Ed decided I can't remember if it's in the clips or not so I'll to speak to it now really quickly that there were some
1:20:09
scenes where they did film extra for Matthew but it comes into play later what they did with them then out of
1:20:16
nowhere a production assistant came sprinting toward us across the dunes when he caught his breath he announced
1:20:23
that Jeff sagansky had called the production office to say it was an emergency and that I was to call him back
1:20:28
immediately this was 1989 remember there were no cell phones part of the location
1:20:34
manager's job was carrying a roll of Dimes for payones but there were no payones on the beach and the production
1:20:41
office was miles away I had no choice but to take off across the dunes there
1:20:46
was only one emergency that would prompt that kind of call Matthew was unhappy
1:20:51
again he says you didn't respond to his no notes jef pleaded of course I did
1:20:58
well he sent the script to Horton foot who says it has all kinds of problems uh maybe we should start
1:21:04
considering other actors for the part I said Kevin Bacon is available Matthew is already you know it's funny that again
1:21:12
I'm glad Matthew's in this film it's it's almost a little it's disheartening to hear the
1:21:17
tumultuousness that he gave Ed and the crew regarding this film's production
1:21:23
now I should state that said in the book that he has forgiven Matthew broad that he he holds no ill will but he said for
1:21:29
the sake of the story he has to talk about what he went through they it' be disingenuous for him to not share the
1:21:36
difficult time that it was but since then that you know they've made amends I mean right you pay or play you've got to
1:21:42
call him I'll call him I knew that Matthew and the heralded
1:21:47
screenwriter of to kill the Mockingbird were close Matthew had acted in foots the Widow CLA Off Broadway and then
1:21:54
Regard in the film adaptation of his play 1918 he was also currently dating foot's
1:22:00
daughter Daisy that close Horton foot was also a third cousin of Shelby foot
1:22:05
whose Civil War histories I so admired I called Matthew asking directly if Horton
1:22:11
Foot wanted to talk to me about the script Matthew hedged and changed the subject again I tried to get him to
1:22:18
articulate his problems with the script he kept mentioning Emerson I knew that r
1:22:24
Waldo Emerson had been the soulle of the Abolitionist Movement into which Shaw was raised but I still couldn't
1:22:30
understand what Matthew was getting at fly down this week and let's get into it I said I'm not sure when I'm coming down
1:22:37
he said I've got a lot going on up here I just want to say Ed does a good Matthew brck there he actually he kind
1:22:44
of mimicked his voice pretty good there did you catch that the little tone change the first time I didn't notice it
1:22:50
but this this time I caught a little bit he just does a little bit of a brought a
1:22:55
voice there I kind of like that it was Dawning on me that Matthew didn't like confrontation but by the end of the call
1:23:01
it was clear he wasn't walking off the movie we were to have several more of these long awkward circular
1:23:08
conversations but what I hoped would be a substantive opportunity to hear him out always seemed to dissipate into
1:23:14
something vague and purposeless later I'd hear how unhappy he was with the call still I imagined
1:23:21
once we got to the Starting Gate he would find his footing I'd seen it happen before with actors
1:23:27
whose anxiety would rise the closer we got to shooting and then disappear the minute the camera started to roll so
1:23:33
again this is all pre-production is that what I'm getting here yeah that's what it seems like they haven't filmed
1:23:38
anything they haven't even started as the saying goes you never hear the bullet that hits you if I was wrong and
1:23:46
fearing my relationship with the black actors could be fraught I was even more wrong and assuming it would eventually
1:23:51
work out with Matthew because the next day day I got a message that Bo Goldman
1:23:57
had called he told me that Matthew had sent him the script and asked him to rewrite it was this something I endorsed
1:24:04
think about that for a second think about the script Doug you can't just rewrite it it's the whole Film
1:24:10
Production sites the actors the other actors who have to learn lines costume changes whatever like the scenery just
1:24:17
the fact that now I know he Matthew was young but the fact that he just gave the script to someone else saying Hey Oh Ed
1:24:24
agrees should rewrite could you rewrite this if I had any actor I don't care if
1:24:29
you're Brad Pit Leo it doesn't matter if you're telling me to rewrite the script because the director says so hey Quinton told me you can rewrite this yeah I
1:24:36
would definitely call the director just to confirm i' be like uh am I rewriting your script I got the actor telling me
1:24:42
to do that it's a little sus as the kids say was speechless well you've got
1:24:47
something else to worry about he said Matthew says he needs his mother to come down here and work with you on the
1:24:53
script his mother she wants to meet with you about the script apparently she's
1:24:58
some kind of writer his mother oit and sis we fly her to Savannah every weekend
1:25:04
on a private jet she'll be there on Saturday when Patricia broadrick arrived
1:25:09
that weekend Psy as she was called was a brilliant woman a painter and playwright
1:25:15
of some success but never with the recognition she felt was her due we met Matthew paty and I in my office for
1:25:22
hours on end going through the the script Page by Page although I'm sure she was capable of warmth and charm I
1:25:30
was never treated to that side of her but I love how it kind of gives her a little bit like yeah maybe she has that
1:25:35
capability to warm and kind to people it just never happened with me I I got a
1:25:42
feeling he's being very um diplomatic I bet you she probably was a cankerous
1:25:48
personality in general probably wanted to use a few other choice words yeah from the moment we met she was
1:25:54
contemptuous demeaning and volatile as Matthew sat in opaque silence I was
1:26:01
forced to defend in excruciating detail my rationale for every line in every
1:26:06
scene paty knew an enormous amount about the transcendentalists but not so much
1:26:11
about screenwriting she insisted on elongating the First Act to include a scene at Brook Farm the Utopian
1:26:18
community that was the incubator of abolitionism also the Shaw's dialogue should include long passages of wait for
1:26:26
it Emerson at least now I understood why Matthew kept bringing him up in our calls it's CU you got the mother this
1:26:33
now it's all coming together here she's behind the scenes Beacon and a lot of this probably didn't necessarily always
1:26:38
have to do with Matthew I think he was probably between two worlds let's pretend the mother for example was just oh this is amazing Matthew you're in
1:26:44
this awesome movie with Ed Wick and Glory this is a great message great movie go get him tiger he probably
1:26:51
wouldn't have been difficult with Ed so that's why I want to talk about this I think a lot of the the behavior that
1:26:56
Matthew was showing was he was torn between the you know his mother's love or adoration or and working on this film
1:27:02
I don't I think that the mother was just completely on board with the vision of Ed I agree with you 100% I think a lot
1:27:08
and it it it shows when he said he wanted Emerson in his lines but couldn't
1:27:14
kind of articulate why yeah is because he wasn't getting all the information or or was getting mixed messages from his
1:27:21
mom or the wires were cross somewhere so he couldn't articulate but he was speaking his mom's words yeah that's
1:27:27
right he's like yeah we throwing Emerson would you it's like what why I don't know I
1:27:32
think it'd be good she also maintained we needed to add Shaw reading from Harriet beer stow's anti-slavery pmic
1:27:39
Uncle Tom's Cabin watch him training troops in front of the admiring ladies of Boston see him attend a famous speech
1:27:46
by Frederick Douglas and most of all play a long scene in which he is convinced to take command of the
1:27:51
regiment by you guessed it his mother [Laughter]
1:27:57
can you imagine if all that was filmed and kept in the film the film would be 3 hours to four hours long yeah I know I I
1:28:03
thought about all that too it was a two-hour film as it is but it doesn't go by slow at all in fact it's I could
1:28:09
easily had it been longer but that being said not with these scenes No No this would have brought it to a halt like a
1:28:15
cing scene with with his wife or girl it's not NE yeah it's not necessary it
1:28:20
doesn't do anything for it's a story about the 54th it's not a story about Robert exactly one of the many ironies
1:28:27
of the sad Saga with py is that I had known her late husband James quite well
1:28:33
a wonderful actor and an amiable Pro he had starred in family where we had worked together happily he had died of
1:28:40
cancer only a few years before at age 55 clearly my friendship with Matthew's
1:28:45
father had done nothing to endear me to his mother py was relentless in her criticism and I fought her at every turn
1:28:53
doing my my best to ignore her profanity and insults one of her choicer comments
1:28:59
was to describe my writing as limp as a
1:29:04
penis you know what's funny I don't think she's ever seen one that's not limp in her
1:29:10
presence it's like nobody can be excited when she's around paty believed her son to be in imminent danger and had come to
1:29:18
defend him with No Holds Barred Jeff had mentioned in passing that py had been sick that she had survived lung cancer
1:29:25
and triple bypass surgery only a few years before I was fighting with a sick
1:29:30
woman this at least explained some of her extreme Behavior yet did it mean I
1:29:36
had to allow her to Savage the script in retrospect I can see we were both desperate had I understood it then I
1:29:43
might have been more compassionate it must have been excruciating for Matthew
1:29:48
he was in an impossible position too obviously concerned for his mother's health and and only a few years past his
1:29:55
father's death not to mention the trauma of the car accident yet he hardly said a word he already had no respect for me
1:30:03
seeing me go toe-to-toe with his mother could only have made him hate me more what a terrible time for Ed yeah and for
1:30:10
Matthew it seems like yeah he was in an impossible position a sad tale around but we got one last clip here Doug but
1:30:16
this one's key so basically what's happened now folks so with with the Matthew story essentially is you can see
1:30:21
the mother was the issue driving these points home to Matthew who's already gone through the loss of his father that terrible tragic car accident his mother
1:30:28
who's just yelling and screaming at the director that he has to work with but despite that all the film gets filmed we
1:30:35
get the performances out of Matthew so say kind of what you want about the mother end or about Matthew bradrick
1:30:40
allowing you almost say allowing the mother he could have said mom back off stay out of my business so to some
1:30:46
degree he enabled the mother to causes so that's on Matthew as well because he's an adult a young adult he's still
1:30:51
an adult he could say Mom Go away You're Destro my chances on this film but despite all that he did a great job in
1:30:58
the film yeah they got all the shots they filmed all the [ __ ] that and did say that he conceited on some things
1:31:03
they filmed things but when they watched the dailies after he mentioned they were unwatchable it was it was a horrible
1:31:10
thing to watch they filmed it they did it and then they watched it afterwards like we cannot put this in the film and
1:31:15
they didn't so now we're going to fast forward the film is done it's in the can it's been shown to the executives people
1:31:20
love it but right now Matthew and his mother have yet to see it so what happened here is Ed was told hey Matthew
1:31:26
br's in Toronto Canada filming with Brando and Hoffman what's the movie
1:31:32
called again I can't remember family plan or something like that or the The Heist The Freshman yes the Freshman
1:31:38
that's right was the something again I saw this film because uh I thought it was great I saw this after glory and I
1:31:44
enjoyed Matthew here's the thing I actually think Matthew's a great I like him I think he's a good actor I think
1:31:49
he's very talented and I just think he was just very young like we said they have very the hatchet everything's fine
1:31:55
now but this is still just the story then so he's flown to Toronto he's got the film reel in his hand he's ready to show it to Matthew and the mom he bumps
1:32:02
into uh some of the co-stars of Matthew in the elevator at the hotel took the red eye and stumbled into the hotel for
1:32:08
a quick shower in the elevator on the way down I ran into Dustin Hoffman he
1:32:14
and Sean conry were starring with Matthew in family business to be directed by Sydney lamt oh family
1:32:20
business sorry I was thinking of a different one family business oh we're both wrong all right oh no this was just
1:32:26
oh sorry this came out the same year as Glory but it was filmed after that's
1:32:33
right because there would have been more post-production probably on a movie like Glory found business was a smaller film that's right this was Sean connory and
1:32:39
Dustin so Matthew is with some big names e yeah yeah because then he did the uh
1:32:44
freshman with Marlin which was a great film too okay okay Dustin was very chatty we had reconciled after our bust
1:32:51
up on drwan fire he smiled mischievously and said I heard you were coming before
1:32:57
I could glean his subtext the elevator doors opened so we got D say I heard
1:33:02
you're coming so Matthew with probably the M for sure py talked and up Ed's coming with the
1:33:10
film yeah she's talking off Dustin's ear about it yeah my son's never work with that guy again I like Dustin's laughing
1:33:18
I heard you're coming he's like what does he mean by that oh poor Ed but it's
1:33:23
okay got a great film right Doug so this this should go fine yeah there was Matthew and Patsy I shouldn't have been
1:33:32
surprised after a few Force pleasantries we walked across the street to a brand new 800 seat theater as the lights
1:33:40
dimmed I began to sweat jetlag
1:33:45
PTSD oh God I realized they didn't know I had cut the entire first reel
1:33:53
yeah I can't believe he didn't think of it when I was listening to the story it's the first thing I thought of when he was going back with the film because
1:33:59
he mentioned they cut it out earlier he said that earlier in the book and I'm like oh he hasn't told them
1:34:05
yet he's about he's sitting next to them with like hey remember those scenes that you wanted me to film I filmed some of
1:34:12
them guess what let's watch this film together yeah as the light Sim oh by the way oh by the way again but you saw the
1:34:18
same movie I saw Doug this is a beautiful who could walk away from this thinking so again let's just see what
1:34:24
happens maybe they do or that i' had also excised an unnecessary subplot dear to paty about a romantic evening Shaw
1:34:31
spin in Buford South Carolina with Charlotte foron a beautiful social worker whom he unconsciously offends
1:34:37
when he refers to her mixed race the movie played beautifully on the
1:34:42
huge screen while watching I even entertained the fantasy that Matthew and
1:34:48
paty would love what they saw and that all would be forgiven and forgotten that was before the lights
1:34:54
came up and they walked out without a word or a backward glance that sums it up can you imagine
1:35:02
Doug this is the director you're watching the film with the director you sat through the whole film and they got
1:35:09
up and didn't even look behind themselves they walked out yeah after having everything that they wanted in
1:35:15
there cut if I was him I would have expected that he had this fantasy that the lights will come up and their eyes
1:35:21
will be filled with tears and they'll love it how could he have gleaned that from
1:35:26
every interaction he's had with him before well I think he's well I think he's kind of like me I think there's a
1:35:31
part of it hopes for the best because he had that amazing product that's the thing that's the point he's like despite
1:35:37
all the crap that you guys puppy through check this thing out and Matthew you yourself this is an amazing performance
1:35:44
like we got something here I also like I don't know if you have the clip but um how Matthew brck wanted the rights to
1:35:51
the Final Cut of the film and and head Wick just flat out refused yeah like
1:35:56
didn't even entertain it just flat out refused yeah yeah so Doug there you go
1:36:01
there's our coverage of Glory I know unlike the movie We're not ending it the best way meaning there's I don't know
1:36:06
how to end this discussion because it's such a grandiose huge film you could dedicate a whole podcast like series to
1:36:12
the film you could do a minute by minute or five minute by five minute type episodes on this there's so much with
1:36:18
the scenery the violence the score the acting then every scene is self graphy
1:36:24
craphy yeah like it's it's a beautiful movie from beginning to end yeah yeah
1:36:30
maybe we didn't do it justice I don't know if we can I know there's been many podcasts uh out there that have covered
1:36:36
this film you can just Google it I think we maybe offered a different perspective or unique one uh hope we did I hope we
1:36:42
gave some insights uh that maybe people didn't know before but Doug this has been an absolute pleasure having you on
1:36:48
you're I said like a good friend uh you're even just as good if not a better podcast
1:36:54
uh please is there anywhere people can see or hear you do you got any projects going on right now what's going on with
1:37:00
you I know you're busy with the baby and jobs but on the last of the action heroes podcast Network you can hear me
1:37:06
with Ryan and Craig you can hear me guess on Ryan's other shows too Katie I
1:37:12
guessed it on her show once as well her uh retrade show so there's plenty of stuff going on plenty of places you can
1:37:19
find me if you really want to I don't know why you would why you're handsome
1:37:24
no this has been an absolute pleasure you are going to be coming on again I've only got about three or four of you that I'm going to be having on this limited
1:37:30
series podcast and you're one of those people so I think you'll be doing a second film so if you're up for it I'd love to have you on again for sure this
1:37:36
was awesome okay thank you thanks for having me man been an honor to serve on you Colonel rub
1:37:42
Balan I would love to be very next to you I would love it lie on top of you
1:37:49
forever fantastic film yes this is a beautiful film is one of my favorite films of all time it is this film is the
1:37:56
reason why I'm doing this whole podcast years later it was this film that got me like who is this edwick guy and I I
1:38:02
followed his career not completely that's kind of why I'm doing this podcast because it's now forcing me to
1:38:08
go through all of his films to talk about the ball but this was the Genesis this is a film that can't be matched but
1:38:13
it was his second film so it's already here here we go second film Glory hard to believe cuz the next film we're going
1:38:19
right back to something a little bit small and intimate which I kind of makes sense I'm looking forward to hearing from Ed's Wick himself why he went to
1:38:25
his next film and yes for teaser Katie will be returning for episode three yes
1:38:31
you'll order to be back I thought she'd be I need to have a female voice again it looks like a movie where I need to
1:38:36
have a female voice and you only know one female so yeah she's the only female podcaster that I that I enjoy no I
1:38:46
mean I'm just kidding no she's fantastic and I I'm able to work with her with no
1:38:52
problem so yeah all right guys thank you so much I truly enjoyed this Doug take care and we'll see you guys on the next
1:38:58
episode thanks Ryan I'll see you
1:39:20
[Music] oh