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In Purpose 360’s second episode, hosts Carol Cone and Chris Noble talk with Laura Kohler, Vice President of Human Resources, Stewardship and Sustainability at Kohler. The fourth-generation Kohler family member illuminates Kohler’s social purpose journey, exploring how the privately-held corporation leverages employee engagement, cross-sector collaboration and storytelling to foster “Innovation For Good.”
Business is an unlikely hero: a force for good working to solve society's most pressing challenges, while boosting bottom line. This is social purpose at work. And it's a dynamic journey. Purpose 360 is a masterclass in unlocking the power of social purpose to ignite business and social impact. Host Carol Cone brings decades of social impact expertise and a 360-degree view of integrating social purpose into an organization into unfiltered conversations that illuminate today's big challenges and bigger ideas.
Welcome to Purpose360. I'm Carol Cohn.
Chris Noble:And I'm Chris Noble.
Carol Cone:And we're on a journey to explore the brightest and most innovative minds and initiatives in social purpose.
Chris Noble:Today, companies and brands must stand for something meaningful. They have to have a social purpose and bring that purpose forward to their employees, their customers, and their community.
Carol Cone:Each episode, we're talking to leaders at Fortune 100 companies, global brands, social enterprise startups, NGOs, and everything in between.
Chris Noble:We'll be taking a deep dive to learn how they are integrating purpose into their organizations.
Carol Cone:To benefit both business and society for enduring impact. Join us. So good morning. Today, we have this wonderful guest joining us, Laura Kohler from The Kohler Company, and I have to be really candid. I love the brand.
Carol Cone:I buy the brand. I just bought some Memoirs Stately Faucets. And, so this is like meeting a celebrity for me. So
Laura Kohler:Well, you're meeting a fourth generation Kohler executive. So my great grandfather started the company in 1873. So in that sense, you are, you know, kind of meeting history just sitting across from you in that humble sense.
Carol Cone:Okay. So I just had chills. And and so, Chris, I don't know if, you know, you'd like to you know, what's your bathroom looking like or your kitchen faucets regarding Kohler?
Chris Noble:Well so my my let's see. That's a good question, Carol. Not one I'm willing to answer, but a really good question. What I am willing to say, though, is that we're excited to have you here and hear about the the journey that Kohler is on and has taken over the last couple years. But but also I wanna say, because Carol's such a fan, that you're effectively the first sponsor we've had on the podcast, and I really appreciate your
Laura Kohler:Oh, that's great.
Carol Cone:That's very, very, very funny. So so, Laura, just tell us a little bit about being a Kohler, a fourth generation, and your role in the company and, what it's like. It's very, very obviously personal for you.
Laura Kohler:Right. So I just celebrated my twenty five years at Kohler. There is life outside Kohler, but I do say to people, I'm in my fifties, and I say that, although I've just worked at Kohler twenty five years, I do feel like it's been a lifetime. I think that we have a rich heritage. And going back a hundred and forty four years, which is pretty amazing legacy, there was a time in my life when I was 18.
Laura Kohler:I just wanted to leave the state of Wisconsin and go to college and never come back. In my late twenties, I started to appreciate the legacy and came back and worked a number of positions. And today, I'm head of HR stewardship and sustainability globally, and we're almost a $7,000,000,000 company with 38,000 people around the world. So it's been a journey. It's been fun.
Laura Kohler:It's always a challenge, never a dull moment, and I love what I do.
Carol Cone:Oh, and and you can just see it. I mean, Laura's eyes are just, like, sparkling, and she's smiling. So I wish we had a video segment of this, but we don't. But, talk a little bit about the role and the breadth of it, and what's a typical day like? Because you say that no two days are like.
Laura Kohler:Right. So we have four business groups at Kohler. Some people know us for kitchen and bath like you. Right? And we're so proud that you're a happy customer, and you're really an ambassador for us now going out into the world.
Laura Kohler:So we have kitchen and bath. We have power. So big gensets.
Carol Cone:Right. Of
Laura Kohler:course. Residential generators and small engines. We have the hospitality and real estate business, which is hotels and golf courses. So if you were a golf fanatic, you'd know that we've had PGA tournaments, and we're gonna have the Ryder Cup in 2020.
Carol Cone:Oh, okay. Now then I have to take you up on that because my husband is a golf fanatic.
Laura Kohler:Yeah. Okay. And then the fourth group we have is decorative products, which is beautiful jewel like businesses of Roburn and Sachs, Callista for the home.
Carol Cone:Callista is yours. I didn't know that.
Laura Kohler:So so Wow. When when I say never a dull moment, we're in all of those spaces in terms of the marketplace and around the world. 50 plants around the world and 38,000 people. So my day consists of working on human resource strategy and execution. It can be working with the sustainability teams and the innovation for good teams, and then it can be a media event or a customer town hall, things like that.
Laura Kohler:So, it's it's fun.
Carol Cone:Oh, that's that's great. So, believing in better, that seems to be a stewardship vision for you. Can you explain that for our listeners?
Laura Kohler:Right. So that was one of our early, I would say, grounding principles that we wanted our work that we do every day at Kohler and the work to renew our communities where we work and live to be all about believing in better. And it's something our associates believe strongly in is that their work for Kohler, but their work in stewardship and sustainability is about we can make the world a better place. It's about having that vision of what might be, and they get to be part of that.
Carol Cone:Oh, that that's exciting for them. And I we should step back a bit, which is I'd love to know what is your personal purpose related to Kohler.
Laura Kohler:Right. You know? So I believe I'm a steward. At the end of the day, going back to what the hard work my great grandfather did in starting the company. And I believe that I'm here to take it to the next level, and I wanna be part of that journey and take care of the past, not throw out the past, take care of it, highlight it, make sure people know what important legacy we have.
Laura Kohler:But then also where are we going and pivoting to the future and getting the millennials or that new workforce excited about what could be. And I really feel that, you know, our CEO and I are part of that pivot generation of the appreciation of a hundred and forty four years, but then pivoting into, okay, what's possible and harnessing the energy of our associates around that purpose.
Carol Cone:So since our podcast is called Purpose three sixty, I am so pleased. I know Chris is too that you're talking about your associates. And that your associates, it sounds like they're the heartbeat. They're the lifeblood that you want to inspire the one, The ones that have been there for years and the ones that are just that you'd like to recruit to join. Talk more about that because I think companies today are only beginning to understand that it's about experience and engagement.
Carol Cone:It's not about here's the policy, and now you need to do it.
Laura Kohler:Yeah. Right. So maybe it's because engagement has been part of our DNA for over, I would say, fifteen years, and I've seen the power of an engaged workforce. And then because I also had another job, which was the stewardship piece, and marrying the two together was the moment of, wow, stewardship and sustainability can really help drive engagement. And what engagement does is drive productivity retention.
Laura Kohler:And associates who are highly engaged are associates who can drive change. Right? So what I've learned is that people come to Kohler to be part of the stewardship and sustainability journey, and they say, I wanna be part of a company that's doing that, or I wanna do it, and I wanna be physically involved. Mhmm. I think an moment that I've also had is that not everybody at every moment in their life has time to volunteer, time to be on an extra project, but they wanna be part of a company that does it.
Laura Kohler:Right? Right. So we have tried to create an environment where you can be part of it if you have time and if you if you care about it, but you don't have to be pressured into it.
Carol Cone:That's so profound because if you look at the amount of engagement that companies have with their employees are either innovating in their work towards a social purpose or if they're involved in volunteerism, skilled or unskilled, it's not a 100%. It might be 10%, 20%, 30%. But the fact that the company is doing so that they are basking in the glow Yes. Per se, that's really important for our listeners to understand.
Laura Kohler:Yeah. Because you could be a working mom with three kids and just don't have time to do some of the extra stuff that it takes to be part of these projects, but you wanna know your company's doing that. Right. And that's the power of storytelling. Right?
Laura Kohler:So that's the power of us making sure we're telling the stories internally and externally about the work and the energy that's happening.
Chris Noble:So so let's talk about that a little bit, about how storytelling meets scale.
Laura Kohler:Yeah.
Chris Noble:Right? Because you're you're absolutely right about the power of storytelling to motivate people and to highlight your purpose and get people going in one direction. How do you do that with 38,000 people? Like, tactically, what are the systems that you put in place so you can reach those people and motivate them?
Laura Kohler:Right. So we just invested in a social communication app called SocialChorus. We're in the launch phase of that, and that is to connect everybody globally to be able so they can communicate with each other. So it also gives us a storytelling platform. We also have something else called SharePoint where we use every day to tell stories globally.
Laura Kohler:We also believe in the power of local communication, though. Low so so we have stewardship and sustainability initiatives that we can talk about globally, but we also have a ton of stuff that's happening at our local you know, over 50 plants around the world, you know, a 100 or some locations around the world are actually doing their own work that they wanna talk about. And, you know so I think that's really important. There are there's global storytelling, and then there's local storytelling. And we find a way to make sure that both of those get to we utilize different channels, right, to amplify those stories.
Chris Noble:And what kind of autonomy does the the local facility have to adopt their their mission or what they're doing?
Laura Kohler:Oh gosh. I think probably a 100% autonomy.
Chris Noble:See, that's great.
Laura Kohler:You know? Because and it's like, you know, there's certain things that we don't talk about. We don't talk about our financial results. We don't talk about specifics around strategy and product development and things like that, but everybody at Kohler knows that. What we can talk about is all the good projects and work that we're doing around stewardships and sustainability.
Laura Kohler:That's fair game. So, you know, giving people the power to tell the stories, to your point, Chris, is is really energizing.
Chris Noble:That yeah. I think that's right. And that and what we've also found is that the the best way for any brand to put their foot forward
Laura Kohler:Mhmm.
Chris Noble:Is to have their employees telling their story for them.
Laura Kohler:Right.
Chris Noble:So as as you can take that and scale it in that way and give the the local facilities the power to tell that story, it it it's gonna work well and hold together
Laura Kohler:for you. So we have Mike Kohler videos. If you went on kohler.com, you'd see Mike Kohler videos on the career site. And that's just really, again, kind of a low level of production with an associate telling the story about their job and their impact on the company. Great.
Laura Kohler:And we try to do them as much as we can. Mhmm. We try to our artists 16 artists come into our factory every year in Kohler, Wisconsin to make art. They've done it over fifty years. And, right.
Laura Kohler:So we also do arts industry stories from the point of view of the artist and what it's like to come into a big factory and make work, right on the line in our pottery or in our foundry. So we again, to your point, authentic storytelling from the point of view of the person who experienced it is very powerful.
Chris Noble:No. That's really great. And we'll put some links to the Kohler stories on our
Laura Kohler:Oh, that'd be great.
Chris Noble:Yeah. We'll link to a couple just to give people an example.
Carol Cone:So can you I know you're really proud of innovation for good. Mhmm. So can you explain its genesis and where it's going and some of the stories within it?
Laura Kohler:Sure. So about six years ago, my the manager for stewardship and some of the people that she worked with in the business had this idea, and some of my HR teams, frankly, had this idea to bring together engineers, designers, marketers, people in communications and human resources who really wanted to talk about product ideas, frankly, that weren't getting addressed in the new product scheduling for the businesses. This was kind of unheard of at the time, and we all thought we were going to get fired.
Chris Noble:Uh-oh. I mean, they can't get fired if your name's Kohler. Oh, I
Chris Noble:don't know.
Chris Noble:I mean, they're gonna go to the woodshed
Laura Kohler:or something. Probably. So, you know, I mean, think about this. Engineers and designers who throw up ideas all the time, but then so only certain ones get picked, right, to get into the official new product schedule process. So we started out with one, IFG retreat.
Laura Kohler:We call it innovation for good IFG. And it was a retreat that we did kind of under kind of after hours, and we set aside time to do it. And, no, we didn't tell anybody about it, and people snuck away from their jobs to do it. And today, we have a a full fledged little business unit. We have a senior business manager of IFG today.
Laura Kohler:We have a small team. We have it divided into three different segments, and one of them is the incubator, which is today where the engineers and designers can still come together and incubate new ideas. And some of them have actually been picked up by the business, which is really cool. So Waste Lab is a new launch in the kitchen and bath business, and we're creating tiles from waste. Right from foundry and pottery waste, and that's gonna be sold under the Anne Sachs brand and also under the Kohler brand.
Laura Kohler:It's launching in January. We've also created Kohler Clarity, which is our water filter, and we're selling almost a 160,000 this year of Kohler Clarity, which is really cool.
Carol Cone:Yeah.
Laura Kohler:And the other idea that, has come out of innovation for good has been CLASS. Right? The closed loop system and our partnership with the Gates Foundation.
Carol Cone:Oh, tell us more about that. Yeah.
Laura Kohler:Right. So we are really proud of our our third party or external partnerships, and Gates is one of the ones that we're, we've learned a lot from. And we partnered with them on a closed loop, kind of black water sanitation system, like how to clean the water and recirculate it back into, I would say, underdeveloped countries that need that don't have aren't part of a sanitation infrastructure. Right. And they've helped us.
Laura Kohler:They've brought some money to the table and gave us a grant. We brought some of our ingenuity and engineering capability to the table, and it's been a relationship over the past three or four years. So we continue to work with them and evolve the concept of a closed loop sanitation system.
Carol Cone:So so you're focusing on a key theme that was at the sustainable brands meeting this year about collaboration. That truly when you're taking your purpose and it's becoming 360 degrees embedded in the company, you've got your engineers and your designers getting very excited, but you also brought in a partner in Gates. Right. How important is that?
Laura Kohler:Hugely important. It's important to us. I mean, think about it going back to the privately held company, a 144 years old. We were so private. It's it was painful.
Chris Noble:Oh, okay.
Laura Kohler:And and what I mean by that is, you know, up until about ten years ago, we didn't talk about our stories, and we didn't have a lot of external partnerships. We then loosened up a little bit, started creating some NGO relationships, started to come consistently to places like sustainable brands, talk about ourselves, and have reached out to Gates.
Carol Cone:Or,
Laura Kohler:actually, Gates reached out to us.
Carol Cone:Oh, because you had awareness.
Laura Kohler:Yes. And they well, they were working on the reinvent the toilet. Okay. So and they ultimately picked Caltech to do some of the engineering work on the reinvent the toilet, and then they were looking for a manufacturer to take that technology and take it to the next stage. So they were looking for their external partners as well.
Laura Kohler:So I think for us, it's a validator that, you know, organization like Gates picked us. We also learned a lot from their philosophy. And I think something I'd just like to point out is a sustainable idea is one that becomes commercially viable.
Chris Noble:Mhmm.
Carol Cone:Right? Exactly.
Laura Kohler:And we learned that and can are continually reminded of that idea, especially in the innovation for good retreats that we work on, is how do we create something that can be a commercially viable solution so that it's not if it become if it's a charity, eventually, people run out of money to support it. That's right.
Chris Noble:Right? And and so I wanna I wanna draw that theme for a second because the how important is having that cross functional team in developing something that's commercially viable? Right? That's one of the things that we're really trying to target is is how it's a a 360 degree experience and 360 degrees of of focus almost to bring everybody together in the center.
Laura Kohler:Yeah. I would it goes back to diversity, frankly. Right? We know that diverse teams are more productive and more successful teams. And I think when you're looking at something like an innovation for good incubating idea, bringing together different perspectives geographically.
Laura Kohler:Right? So can Americans really create the solution for sanitation in India? Kinda need to know and have people who experience understand that perspective and live it. You know? So how do we bring together diverse teams in all the things that we do so to make sure that we have enough perspective if we truly want to innovate?
Carol Cone:What was the tipping point when you said it was painful that you weren't communicating?
Laura Kohler:Yeah.
Carol Cone:So was something a big that happened, or was it more your leadership and David's leadership?
Laura Kohler:Well, I think, actually, here's where the HR part of my role comes in and the value of that. It's when our when the hiring market, kind of resurged after the great recession, so I would say in '11 and '12, and the market starts to strengthen again, People were looking for jobs, looking for companies, and they didn't know what it was like to work at Kohler. Right? It again, so private, it's painful. Right.
Laura Kohler:So we had to be able to figure out how could we tell our stories in a way that is authentic to us, doesn't convey a lot of numbers. Right? But we could, and and the best way to do that, we started out sugarcoating things and overproducing, and we knew then that was a mistake because that becomes almost unbelievable. Right. And then we kind of generationally we went through another generation of learning and then had our associates tell stories and then started to use our website more effectively to do that.
Laura Kohler:And that has and then started using stewardship and sustainability and artist arts industry to tell stories. So we're doing it because being a privately held company, it's hard to know what is actually what it's like to work at Kohler, and we're using these platforms to to to kind of really convey this is what it's like here. Right? We can't tell you everything
Chris Noble:Right.
Laura Kohler:But we can tell you a lot. Right. And that was the was really the candidates coming in and saying, I don't know if I wanna work for you because I don't know what it's like really inside the walls of Kohler.
Carol Cone:Were there some bumps along the way when you made the transition Well, it's telling the stories?
Laura Kohler:Yes. And we probably were overly controlling in the beginning. To your point, Chris, earlier, how much autonomy do you give to the local locations to tell their story? We were overly controlling. We did everything from the center, and we overproduced.
Laura Kohler:Mhmm. Right? And then we started to, like, relax a little bit and started to listen more to what associates wanted inside and also to what candidates wanted to hear instead of thinking we knew all the answers.
Carol Cone:That's great.
Chris Noble:Yeah. And that's that's pivotal. And and once you do sort of find the answers, one of the questions we like to ask is, how do you drive change inside the organization? How do you get that buy in? How do you make it work?
Chris Noble:Now your name's on the door. Mhmm. But still in all, that's the thing that's really interesting to the the our audience is how do I make this work? How do I bring all these pieces together in one place Right. And drive the change internally?
Laura Kohler:Right. So one of our learnings also has been sometimes we manage change by brute force, and that can't you can't continue to do that. Right? You probably can get away with that brute force management for a while.
Chris Noble:But It's actually how I fix all of my plumbing.
Laura Kohler:Right. But after a while, you have to be have more finesse in how you manage change. And I believe it goes back to what I said earlier, which is an engaged workforce, an engaged group of people can handle change much more effectively than a group of people who are probably much less engaged. So one of the people at this con the there's a book called All In. Right?
Laura Kohler:And I really think that it's it's associates and employees who are all in. That's the associates you want when you have a big challenge in front of you. And if you communicate, if you give some ownership to them, if you allow them to be all into the change model, they will help you through the change. Right? And and then the HR folks, the strategic leaders need to give them a framework.
Laura Kohler:But I believe if you've got that engaged workforce and you help put that problem in front of them with a framework of a pathway, they can they can help you get there as a company.
Carol Cone:So do you have a favorite story, a favorite employee story? You've given us a couple, but is there another one that you went, oh, this was just great. It just really touched me, touched the family, touched the business.
Laura Kohler:I would tell you the Waste Lab story took about, oh gosh, two years to convince management that it was a good idea. And the team that worked on it knew it was a good idea, but it was so out of the box. We we had no other waste labs in the company. We were not reusing our waste to make a product. We were taking waste and shipping it to external vendors or selling it for road beds and things like that, but we really hadn't spent the money on equipment to actually take waste and repurpose waste for our own commercial use.
Laura Kohler:Totally out of the box. And that the the the the team had made the had done the work on this, and we had had to sit on the decision making document for a long time before we got management to sign off because it we didn't really have a champion.
Chris Noble:Okay.
Laura Kohler:Right? And it took a few of us to continue to pound on the door of the CEO to say this is worth it. Let us try. Right. And when he signed the document to to and and approved it, I will tell you that we have gotten more goodwill, more positive energy in the last year of getting the waste lab up and running than probably anything else.
Laura Kohler:The and Kohler Clarity was another example of a huge something we did that was small that has become significant in terms of employee value proposition and external messaging and things like that. So I would just tell you those stories sometimes, the things that you fight the hardest for, you know in your heart they're the right things. You have to convince the business leaders that it will be positive for the business. And if you can get over that hurdle, it can unleash huge positive impact.
Carol Cone:So do you ever, one of the things that we recommend to clients is something called a walkabout. You know, get them out of their office, go into the field. Did that help you at all to get some of clarity or the waste product accepted?
Laura Kohler:Yeah. I think so. I think, our CEO is really good at getting out of his office and walking in the in our manufacturing facilities and personally seeing issues. So and the more we can do that with him Right. Right?
Laura Kohler:And the more we can show him something, the the that it is very helpful to moving projects forward. But it's also helpful to getting the people working on the projects to not just sit in their desk and theorize about it. Right. Actually, to get them out there and experience going on trips with NGOs. Great.
Carol Cone:Yeah. That's the walk up.
Laura Kohler:Yeah. Yep. A lot of our people have gone on NGO trips. I personally also traveled, in Kenya and in South South Of Africa with, and studying the class with the Gates Foundation, the impact of class. So I think, you then can speak more authentically about a situation.
Carol Cone:So 360 for our listeners, it is not just integrating it throughout the company, but it's also integrating into the world and being worldly. And there is a tendency, a higher up you go in an organization, to get very insular. Yeah. And what's so exciting again, what we learned from the sustainable brands conference and from your stories is that just get out of your office?
Laura Kohler:Right. You know? Well, and realize you're not the expert in everything. Exactly. Right.
Laura Kohler:And you might be good at what you do, but you have to partner to actually and bringing that put those partnerships together really drives the impact.
Carol Cone:Yeah. It's it's magic.
Chris Noble:Yeah. And that's something where I wanted to go to take you in particular is how do you look for those partners? What's the what's the decision matrix you make and have to go through to identify the right partner, recruit them, and then kind of bring them into the fold?
Laura Kohler:Yeah. So that is an important question because we are we carefully select who we partner with. And my team, Rob Zimmerman, Ritesh Namiborthy, and Cindy Howley are all really important. They're leading stewardship, IFG, and sustainability, and they're very careful in the partners that they select. They spend time with them.
Laura Kohler:We make sure they're well managed, that they are authentic in what they do, that they drive it, they're driving outcomes. And so they're carefully vetted because we want our brand to be associated with another brand that's of similar seriousness, you know, and and management capability.
Carol Cone:And and how important is measurement from your NGO relationships and qualitative, quantitative frequency?
Laura Kohler:How how important is Measurement.
Carol Cone:So if you're working with a partner and you set goals Yes. And then
Laura Kohler:So measurement is too, Kohler is fundamentally important. So we measure a lot. Mhmm. And we actually don't we we want to have an outcome. We don't wanna just have a lot of effort.
Laura Kohler:We actually want it to drive to something. So I think we are trained in that. It is part of our culture, and we don't mind spending our time and our resources if there's an outcome. So we wanna make sure we deliver that for the partner, and we expect the partner to deliver that for us.
Carol Cone:Great. Great. Can we shift a little to the sustainable development goals? Mhmm. Because we know that you're aligning some of your efforts against some of the SDGs.
Chris Noble:Mhmm.
Carol Cone:You know, when the SDGs came out, you know, people said, yeah. They're there. Companies are just gonna kind of maybe align with one or two. How important are the SDGs to Kohler? What kind of education process did you need to do internally with your senior executives?
Laura Kohler:Well, so I was there at the launch in 2015 at the UN General Assembly for the launch of the the sustainable development goals was really powerful. The the the whole concept that many companies are creating their strategies off of the SDGs I mean, their whole company strategy, meaning their growth strategy around the world's biggest problems is, wasn't was really a a moment for me to say how can Kohler tie our work every day into what the UN is seeing as the world's biggest problems? And so when I read the 17 sustainable development goals, there they are right there. In number six is clean water and sanitation. That's what we're about.
Laura Kohler:You know, number seven is all about clean energy. That's another one of our businesses. And then I think 12 is the footprint production footprint. Those are really important to Kohler, and it is what we do every day. So for us, it was a natural coming together of linking our current work with what the UN is saying as the world's biggest problems.
Laura Kohler:Then going back and really helping our associates say, hey. We're part of something bigger.
Carol Cone:Bigger. Right? Yeah.
Laura Kohler:And that goes to purpose. It's like, why are we here? We're here because our and we hire very smart people and really capable people and taking their power of their minds and their energy and link helping them link and saying, we're affecting six. We're affecting seven. We're affecting 12.
Carol Cone:That's great. That's you know, I you get I can you know, you're so animated about it, which is it was great that you you're at the launch. Well, I think we could probably go on for another hour. I think that but we wanna respectful of your time and our listeners' time. What else would you love to share that we haven't asked?
Laura Kohler:You know, I always talk to audiences around the world about this concept of to whom much is given, much is expected. And I think that goes for the individual, but it also goes to the company. Right? And I think that if we, sitting here, people listening to your podcast, people attending sustainable brands, people in companies around the world can really say, how can I make a difference in my work every day with my company, in my work in my community as an individual? I I just think that if we harness that power, that energy, that capability, we can attain movement on those sustain the sustainable development goals.
Laura Kohler:We can see, improvement in the in in terms of the world's biggest problems. We just have to harness all of this energy and power.
Carol Cone:Terrific. Well, thank you, Laura. You know, I
Chris Noble:loved you before you got here.
Carol Cone:Now after this conversation, I will be such an evangelist for the company and for the product. Please keep up the great work. Chris.
Chris Noble:Yeah. No. It's and we really appreciate your time.
Laura Kohler:You're welcome. It fun.
Carol Cone:Great. Thank you so much.