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In this episode, Alicia joins Diane and Will on a high‑stakes tax‑fraud case that suddenly becomes a landmark fight over the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). A flamboyant super‑lawyer, Jeremy Breslow, barges into the case with an agenda to turn it into a gay‑rights test. Meanwhile, Alicia’s personal life gets shaken when her free‑spirited mother, Veronica, shows up with drama surrounding a late husband’s will and accusations of cheating. Back at the firm, Alicia and Diane clash with Breslow’s showmanship as they scramble to protect their client and their case. In the end, the firm must win on their own terms—not just for their client, but for their own integrity.
- 00:10 – Intro: Jason & Marissa gear up for holiday‑theme and dive into the right‑hand promise.
- 07:15 – The tax‑fraud case is introduced: CEO Foster and CFO Lamborne under fire for $400 M fraud.
- 15:22 – Wiretap and DOMA theme emerge: can same‑sex spousal privilege apply here?
- 29:05 – Super‑lawyer Breslow arrives, takes over the defense table and shifts the case’s agenda.
- 41:40 – Family subplot: Veronica arrives, the will dispute and digs at Alicia’s life & love choices.
- 53:30 – Closing courtroom moment & plea negotiation: Alicia & Diane choose to fight, not take the deal.
Don’t forget to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can also support the show at https://buymeacoffee.com/goodpod
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Creators and Guests
Host
What is The Good Pod?
Calling all fans of courtroom intrigue and complex characters! Join us each week as we dive deep into the gripping world of "The Good Wife," "The Good Fight", "Elsbeth," and the entire legal drama universe created by Robert and Michelle King. Jason Reed and Marissa Garza, break down each episode, unpack intricate plot lines, and analyze the moral dilemmas faced by Alicia Florrick, Diane Lockheart, Elsbeth Tascioni, and their colleagues. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to these addictive shows, you'll gain fresh insights and catch details you might have missed.
# The Good Wife S4 E9
[00:00:00]
Welcome to the Good Pod, where today we're talking The Good Wife, season four, episode nine. Defense of a Marriage. I'm one of your hero. Jason Reed. With me as always, Marissa Garza. Marissa, you good? I'm good. Jason. You good? I'm good for Marissa. Yeah. On my right hand, look at my right hand. Oh my God. It's the right hand.
This is the hand. I don't wanna know. Do I wanna know some stuff you don't wanna know? Okay. But this is the hand I used to log off this podcast today. Oh my God. Oh my gosh. To come on to this podcast, Uhhuh and talk about this episode of this show that we all love. Okay. And I promised, I promised the Kings that I would podcast about this whole series of this show no matter what.
You're not gonna, you're not gonna have me not podcast about this show. Okay? Am I trying to stop [00:01:00] you? I promise, I promise the case Well. Okay. I, I promise with this hand, okay, with this hand. I shook your hand. Okay. I said, I promised you I don't wanna come between you and the kids. All don't, don't do it. We, they, we are close person, but friend.
Okay. Um, that was quite a moment. I, I, and I love, I love that Will was not having any of it. He's like this guy bullshit. Okay. It's like, will also like. I'll see if that one in my back pocket, like Right, right. Will Will's like I will's jealous for sure. Like I, I, I'm, I'm, I should've thought of that. Such a good show.
It's such a good show there. I'm gonna keep that, that right hand thing, uh, in my back pocket for later. Uh, but yes, here we are, season four, episode nine. Weirdly, weirdly, the Thanksgiving episode. And here we are. I know days away from Thanksgiving how these things matched up is beyond us. We didn't even plan that at all.
Uh, it just so happens to be It's because you promised the kings with your right hand. I promise. I [00:02:00] promise. With my hand. I said, every holiday episode we're gonna do. Right. Right. Round the real holiday. Um, and listen, honestly, the, we, this is the fourth season. This is like the first Thanksgiving episode Yeah.
Ever to fall on. Yeah. With real Thanksgiving. It's good. Fantastic. It's good. I mean, we'll talk about how fantastic it actually was, but yes, great timing. Uh, we'll say that for the Marissa Bummer segment of the podcast. Um, uh, before we get started in earnest on this episode, we wanted to remind you of some free and easy ways.
You can support this podcast. You can do that by reviewing, rating, subscribing, wherever it is you're watching and or listening. Uh, we haven't had a Apple Podcast review in in quite some time, so we would love it if you would pop into your Apple Podcast catcher and leave us a five star review. Would love that.
Also, if you're on Spotify, you can also leave us as a five star review, can also comment on the episode via Spotify. We'd love that as well. Uh. You can also hit us up if you have any questions, comments, feedback [00:03:00] at the good pod, feedback@gmail.com. If you wanna hit us up there as well. Uh, you can also, if you choose to, uh, to help us out, you can donate over on buy me a coffee.com/good pod.
Any sums, small or large, we would, uh, really appreciate it. Uh, you know, yeah, Jason, so I've been watching the American Revolution by Ken Burns on PBS. Okay. Okay. This is where I check out. Go ahead. No, no. When it starts, like, there's always the like. The American Revolution was brought to you by the So and so foundation.
Yeah. The blah and blah foundation. This could be you, like Yeah. You, you could be our, our sponsors. And also, I just wanna let you know that there are two people in this episode that are in the American Revolution. A okay. No, there is the connection. If you want to, uh, the good pod brought to you by listeners like you.
Listen, we would do that if you, if you decide to donate and you want us to like shout you out, like this episode sponsored by, like, it'd be like, [00:04:00] it'd be like S street. This most was brought to you by letter A, right? We we'll do that. We'll, we'll a hundred percent do that. Um, so just leave us, leave it in the comments, like in your little donation, like, I want this, I want, I wanna be the official sponsor of an episode.
We'll do that. We'll do that for sure. Do you wanna know who the two people are? Yes, go ahead. Go for it. One is Yule. Who is, uh, Yule Vasquez, I think is her name. Name. Oh, Christian. Okay. Christian, yes. And the other is none other then Mr. Josh. Charles. Josh. Charles a k, a Future, uh, doc Martin who, uh, yeah, if you haven't seen the, the news.
Uh, he's gonna be the new, I guess new Doc Martin. And I don't even, I don't even think the show's called Doc Martin. Not the shoes, not the shoes. Not the shoes Doc Martins. Oh yeah. Not, not the shoes. He's gonna be, 'cause what was it, Marissa? You're, you're more into this thing than I am. Uh, doc Martin was a BBC show that about a doctor in a small town.
Yes. Doctors, [00:05:00] you know, quintessential British procedural type of thing. Mm-hmm. Um, but he is going to be playing the doctor. Yeah. So got new Josh Charles has a new show coming out, so that'll be fun. Josh Charles, who I also love because he, uh. He narrates some of football documentary things that I love. Uh, so, so also the American Revolution, he doesn't narrate it, but he's there.
What does he do? Does he just talk about the American Re So have you ever watched a Ken Burns documentary? Have you ever in your, okay, well Jason, you're missing out. It's 12 hours of fun. Um, oh, sorry. But. What he does, like the way that Ken Burns tells the story is there's a NAR narrator, not just Charles, but then he assigns like quotes from actual people to actors to read.
And so Josh Charles is reading from a couple of different act like historical figures, but they got Paul Giani to do John Adams because he did John Adams for the. Miniseries. Laura Lenny's in there. Claire Danes [00:06:00] is in there. Ellen Al is in there. Or not Ellen Alda, Adam Arkin is in there. Um, all the great whites.
Well, and but also what's great about this is that there are actually, and then I'll get off my soapbox there, actually black historians, black women historians and native historians for the first time ever. Really, in a doc like that, I've seen. In a documentary and we talk about, they talk about what ha what was going on in the native community while, you know, everything else was going on.
Um, because it wasn't just a war on the coast, it was a war everywhere. And so. I highly recommend if you're in the, Hey, I feel crappy about America 'cause it's Thanksgiving. If you want, if you wanna do more of that, uh, you got six hours on PBS. If you download the PBS app or six episodes, 12 hours, download the PBS app.
It's free until like. Think through December, so check it out. If that's ever a plug, [00:07:00] boy, I really sell it, don't I? PBS is getting a big bump, you know, Sesame Street references. The, uh, not, not this. Well, I mean, listen, uh, PBS no longer the home of Sesame Street. Um, yeah, well, that's not their fault. Yeah. Not their fault at all.
Um, yeah. And listen, so for all you. Fellow nerds out there like Marissa, that's something for you. Look forward to. Yeah. This is like your, this is like your Super Bowl, I suppose. It is. It really is. A new Ken Burn documentary. Get hyped. Yeah, get hyped. It's so good. I still have to finish the rest of it, but like I, I am not even looking on my phone when I'm watching it.
It's that good. Any who? Okay. Should we talk about this case? Should we talk about the episode? Let's, let's do it. Let's, let's do what we came here for. Alright. Uh, this week the case of the week was about TA tax fraud and doma. You may be asking yourself. Well, can you remind me what DOMA is and also how does, what does that have to do with tax fraud?
We're in, tell you. Um, so tax launch.com is in court for a fraud case. We've got the CEO Foster and the CFO [00:08:00] Lamber Labour Lab born lamb lambourne, um, accused of huge, huge IRS fraud over like $400 million. So this case is, they are. Co-defendants in this case, like the a SA is putting this together and the a SA that we see on this side, it's none other than Bucky that we saw Bucky's back last episode.
Well, not I, it was a couple episodes ago. A couple episodes ago. Uh, it was our most recent, uh, military case. Yes. Uh, where Laura, uh. Harrington, captain Inger Inger Harrington, where, where, where, where she was introduced. Uh, interestingly enough, now Bucky and Laura are working in the same office. I didn't even think of that.
Yeah, I know. So just now. Yeah. So I wonder that's, I wonder, along with Geneva, all Geneva, Matan, all the, all the gang. Um, so I just wonder if that's ever gonna come up. I just talk about that right now. 'cause they, they just face each other in court not that long ago. Now they're [00:09:00] working in the same place.
We'll see. We'll see, we'll see. Uh, but, and, and the, the, uh, what, what this case is about basically is like there were fraudulent tax returns, uh, filed. Yeah. And all the returns from all of those tax returns in the hundreds all went to the same address. I would think if you are a perpetrating tax fraud, you should be a little smarter than that.
Right. What'd you think? Well, you know, we have a felon in the White House. Jason, I don't really know what to tell you. This is, this is really an America, you know, America such, we love it, but, but also, you know, reach across the aisle and eat some Turkey, um, together, because then you can take a nap. Um, yes.
That, yeah. 'cause like we, we had 300 tax returns all set there. Returns to the one address, don't you? That's a little suspicious. Like, well, yeah, duh. Like, why would you do that? Well, and because of that, like the CEO and the C ffo are being tried together, but the defense is [00:10:00] like, no, this is like two different things.
And the defense being blocker, Gardner basically wants to split this case. And the judge here who is also um, baby new, the judge is, we've seen her here before, but she's legend in her own right. Um. Denies this and a wiretap comes in into play and they're saying, you can, we cannot use this because of spousal privilege.
Okay, so I wanna like just put this little time mark in here. This episode came out in 2012, I think. Yeah, 2012. And. In 2012, we were living with the Defense of Marriage Act, which sounds like it's cool and fun, but in 1996, the US law federally defined marriage as a union between one man and one woman in, in prevented states from requiring them to recognize same sex marriages from other states.
So this is the, like the landscape in which everyone is living under, but particularly queer people have to deal with in. [00:11:00] 2012. Uh, we didn't get same-sex marriage until 2015 when the Supreme Court ruled in Ober, ogre fell versus Hodges, which just ffy I not seeable ground in 2025. Like a lot of things. So who knows what this, you know, landscape will look like in a few years, but at the time of this case, claiming sp privilege.
If you are in a relationship with another, you are a man in a relationship with another man, is something. That would cause a little bit of discussion. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Um, and you know, and when we started this case, it's about the wiretap from, uh, the CEO and his wife. So at first it's like, Hey, they, that's not cool.
And Bucky's trying to argue, well, the wife isn't on it, so it should be allowed. And the honorable judge friends says, well, prove to me that she's a co-conspirator and we'll let it in. And so for now, we're kind of in a, like, holding pattern because you gotta work, we gotta work on, yeah. The, the state has to work on proving that the wife is a co-conspirator so [00:12:00] they can allow the tape to be led into evidence.
'cause apparently this has some rather damning evidence to the CEO. Yes. I forgot about that wire type. I was thinking about the other one, which is Yeah, that comes in a little later. Yeah. Yes. Which was between Lamborne and his husband Warren. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, and that's where DOMA comes into play. And so can they have spousal privilege?
Not really. Um, even though the prosecution is claim, like claims, no spousal privilege because of doma, and the defense is like, well. They were le legally married in Vermont at this time. Mm-hmm. You, there were some states where you could, but you couldn't be, you couldn't be recognized in other states. So if they were legally married in Vermont and they're in Illinois, not much the judge could do, but the judge is like, okay, prepare briefs.
Let's find out what marriage means to these people. Yeah. It was basically like, can we prove that this is a, like a, should we look at this as a real marriage, which kind of. As we'll talk about later was kind of nonsense in the first place because it [00:13:00] felt like the judges are gonna do what the judge did no matter what.
But I think for the theater of it all, we'll, uh, we'll go into what marriages these people have fun with it. I did love, like, 'cause last time we saw Bucky, right? Was this was this military case that, you know, was, uh, it was our people against the military. Uh, and Bucky was, was representing the, the alleged sexual abuser where at the end of it, Bucky was kind of like.
Yeah, you suck. Uh, guy. Yeah. Like, I don't, like, it seemed like Bucky was Yes. Had to defend this person, but did not agree with, uh, what he was doing. Now, Bucky's, kinda like Bucky's getting shitty again, right? Because Bucky and, and the, and the evolution of this case where we're, where he's questioning Warren and uh.
Dale, I think the names were Dale is Mr. Landor, the CEO. Warren is his husband, and he keeps referring to Warren as Dale's boyfriend, where it's like, mm-hmm. You know, you, you know what you're [00:14:00] doing because, well, I guess, I guess in Bucky's mind, I can't refer to him as a husband because I'm arguing the fact that this isn't a real marriage.
Right. But it's still a shitty thing to do. Totally, and I mean, everything that happens to, um, Warren and Lamborne like. Not great this entire episode, like at this point we're introduced to Jeremy Breslow. Who comes in, Mr. This is my right hand. Look at my right hand look. Fight. This is the right hand. That shook the hand of my brother who was dying of like, and I promised I would fight for the end of Jona and all this stuff.
He comes in lots of big fanfare, right? Mm-hmm. Lots of things. And like this is like everything that like Lampor and Warren want to hear, right? Like, yeah. He's gonna fight for me like this is great. So you're gonna kind of have to let him on the team guys. Well, yeah. I love how Breslow is introduced because he's just in the lobby and Carrie being Carrie Yes.
Uh, [00:15:00] comes up and he is like, Mr. Breslow, like I, I heard you speak at Yale. 'cause I went to Yale, um, and uh, it was one of the best, best moments of my life. And he like walks into. Uh, walks into the, like a meeting that Alicia, Alicia, Diane, and Will are having about this case. And we'll talk about the weird looks that Carrie gets and why he gets weird looks, which is Yeah.
Hilarious in the first place. It's, uh, you guys, you know, Jerry Breslow is here and Yeah. Breslow comes in. Does this whole, does this whole shtick. And he, and he like, not only like he's throwing in like Stonewall. Mm-hmm. Harvey Milk, like he's saying all the right things. Yeah. He's like, he, he's making like Diane Lockhart will, Gardner, your names, could be along with those people.
He's like tr really trying to sell him hard on taking him, taking him aboard the def the defense. Right. Like he, because he kind of convince him to let him on the defense. And at first Will's like, this man is bs. He's like, he calls him Barnum and Bailey, like, he's a salesman. He's like a. He is a shuckster.
He is like, this isn't about him. It's not gonna be [00:16:00] about the client. It's not gonna be about anything else. It's gonna be about Breslow. Breslow's gonna make it about him and this is a victory for him and what he's doing. 'cause this guy is, you know, Kerry knows this guy. This guy is a big supreme lawyer.
Supreme Court lawyer. Yeah. He's argued in front of the Supreme Court. So like when someone like that walks in, first of all he was also very like, I'm meditating. Yeah, he was very zen. Um, but when he comes in. Everyone's kinda surprised, like, why are you dealing with this? But as the American justice system is set up to do, and as people will do to marginalized communities, he sees this as an opportunity to lose this case and appeal it.
All the way up to the Supreme Court to get rid of doma. Like, hi. That's his end, end game. His end game is to end doma. These poor people just want to not be convicted of tax fraud. You know what I mean? Right. And, and it's, it's that fine line because it is a noble cost, [00:17:00] but a noble cause. I will say. But what is, what is the cost?
Right, exactly. What, what is the cost to these individual people? What is the cost to, to our people that are trying to win this case? You know, because it's. It's, it's, it's a lot of things going into play here. And we find out, like at first our people are like, ah, we don't need 'em. Get 'em outta here. But then we find out.
That the co-defendant, the CEO, had the charges dropped against him by the state, and now the state's gonna flip him against our guy Dale, to make him the fall guy of this. So I was like, oh, crap. Like, yeah, I guess now we gotta, we gotta take Breslo on because now this is definitely going to be a dooma issue because without, if we, if we, if that wire tap goes in.
It's gonna be an issue for us. So we have to fight this thing tooth and nail, so we have to take a breslow. So they do, and it's like super crowded in the court. I did enjoy that little comedic timing of that. Like when judge, judge is like, do we need to get you another table? Like, are [00:18:00] you guys okay? It's a little crowded over there.
And I love the psych gag, right? Because it, it's a visual representation of what has happened here. Breslow has come in Yes. And pushed Diane, Alicia to the back at the kids' table. Like the fact they had their own little table that only Diane, Alicia sat at is like a visual representation. Like, oh, like, I mean, like, listen, speaking of Thanksgiving, you're sitting at the kids' table, you're sitting, you're not with the adults, you're own, you're in your own little world over here on the table.
And Breslow has come in and just taken over everything. And in some families, the kids' table is the place to be. That's the best spot to be in, uh, in, in others, you know, it's a really short and uncomfortable table to sit in if you're an adult. So in this case, I think, you know, Diane and Alicia, they're also like trying to get their, their words in, like they're trying to get, um, breslow to like pay attention to what.
What they know about the case. But he is definitely like curbing every single suggestion as he can. He get, he does get the attorney general, [00:19:00] uh, former attorney General on the stand saying, and basically saying the current administra administration sees him as Discriminary Discriminary, but also, uh, we can't give federal budget or benefits to same sex couples.
At the moment. Yeah, I think Bucky, Bucky does a great job here because Bucky's like, 'cause you know, Breslow's up there talking to the, the, the former attorney general and he is like, obviously you can, you can tell that this guy, the attorney, the former Attorney general know each other 'cause they're using like shorthand with each other.
And he is like, so, uh, tell us about how the government feels about doma. And the guy's like, oh, the government hates doma. They don't, they don't agree with it, blah, blah, blah. And so Bucky gets up there, Bucky's like, so, I mean the government hates doma, right? Yeah, that's what I said. He is like, but the government doesn't cognize, do they do anything about it?
Yeah. They don't recognize all these other entitlements like, uh, medical benefits shared between same sex spouses. Do, do, do they do that? No. Social security benefits. Do they share those with same-sex couples? No. [00:20:00] So what you're telling me is that the government doesn't agree with it, but they still really uphold it and don't do anything to fight back against it.
How does that make sense? I was like, Ooh, that was, yeah. And also like. Spousal privilege can't be used here because it's not like those other things are not even being held up. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So Exactly. So I, I love that from Bucky Smart move. Good move, Bucky. And, and, and, you know, Alicia and Diana sitting here, hearing Bucky basically like go on and on and on about, like, basically they call him out for test.
Like he, this guy is up here testifying the case. It was not, which is not what a lawyer's job is, right? They want to object and b Brazel is literally just sitting there. Letting Bucky do this because, and yeah, he wants to lose. Yeah, he wants, he is, he's trying to throw the case, and Alicia has had quite enough of this.
She's, she's fuming because Breslow won't say anything. So Alicia gets up and objects and, which causes like a tizzy everywhere. The, the judge is like, [00:21:00] um, you can't object to anything because you did not, you know, introduce this. Witness to the proceedings. Only Breslow can do that. 'cause Breslow was the one that questioned him first, which I didn't even know that was a thing.
Sure. And, and Breslow himself is like, you'll stop interfering. I, I, I dictate the pace and the questioning of this, uh, trial. I was like, oh, okay. That's where we're at. Alright. So yeah, Breslow's obviously now trying to just like throw the case so he can use this as a pet. Cause to introduce the DOMA thing to Supreme Court.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, Bucky also gets, um, Dale Lamborne on the, sta on, on the stage on the stand and questions him about something that he knows as Free Fridays. And, you know, it could have been like. Free appetizers at TGI Fridays. Um, it could have been anything, but I don't think that's what it was. It was more [00:22:00] along the lines of an open relationship.
So not only are is he trying to define his marriage with another man, but now he's trying to define open marriage, which again is 2012. I just, we weren't there yet. We're not even there now, but yeah. You know, like, trust me, we're not there now. 'cause I looked at my wife, I said, huh, I heard about this thing called Free Fridays and, uh, did not go well.
Let's just say that did not go well. But that was a joke. That was, that was a joke. Oh, I missed it though. I, I tried to introduce my wife to Free Fridays and did not go well. Oh, oh yeah. No, don't, like, don't pee. Don't do that to her. She doesn't want it. Um, yes. So, but the. Then at this point they reveal that Foster, the CEO had several affairs of his own.
Like up to like, at first it was like five, but Breslow is like, actually it's 12. And so the argument here is like, marriage is messy no matter what. Yeah. And, and you know, it's a very kind of like [00:23:00] 2012 move to be like, oh, these, these gay people, they're so, they're so free sexually. They, yeah. These are not real relationships because they, they do all these, yeah.
All this freaky stuff. And it's like, oh no, sweetie. Heterosexual couples have the same issues. Listen, at least this is a open arrangement between Dale and Morgan understanding. I don't think Foster has the same arrangement with his wife. I think he's just cheating on his wife. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So the judge rules because you know of DOMA and DOMA is federal law, so we must apply it.
So therefore, same sex spial privilege is denied. So we can use the wire to up. I'm like, so why did we go through all this rigmarole? If you were just going to say, DOMA is the law and. We gotta follow it. Why did, why do we even go through all this if you were just gonna rule that way in the first place?
Which, you know, I guess if you're like, well, Jason, it's a show. So we, and we wanted to have some fun, so, well, and also they wanted to like educate the audience. Like everyone's, [00:24:00] everyone's mar like, it doesn't matter who you are, message or marriage can be messy. Exactly. But it's like, why judge, friend, why did you have us?
Go through all this and you just gotta rule that it's law in the first place, which it was two days ago when you were like, well, I'll gotta decide. Well, I think that, yeah, yeah, that's true. Um, this is a battle loss for the defense. Um, and, but not the end of the war. But Bucky sees this as an opportunity and he goes, and he puts in an offer, right?
Like, he's like, Hey, we could do 20, what was it, 25 million or 20? Yeah, he makes an offer. Well, this, there's some of things happened before, before this, uh, because before this we do, we do get to hear the wiretap from between Dale and Warren. I, okay. I thought that Ha Oh, go ahead. So we hear the wiretap Dale.
This is basically Dale telling Warren he is not sure he did anything wrong, but it could be seen as him doing something wrong, which is not, not totally damning evidence [00:25:00] and. Breslow does not want to cross. Like, uh, what is it? Cross examine Dale to like, right. To have Dale explain what he meant in the wiretap.
And Alicia and Diana are again like, what the hell bro? We have to defend ourselves against this wiretap thing. And Breslow's like, nah, we are good. So at that point they kind of put Dale in a spot where it's like, well Dale, you gotta like. Is it gonna be us or it's gonna be breslow? Like we're trying to help you.
Breslow is trying to sink you right now. And this is where like after the, and Dale sides, the breslow. So we're not going to have Dale explain any of the wiretap or anything. And after they get outta court, this is where Diane like confronts breslow, like you're trying to make us lose. It's like so you, so you can try and fight DOMA in court and you're trying to lose.
So you can use this case as precedent. Bri doesn't, doesn't really flag deny this. He's just like, no, I wanna win. I wanna win it all for all of us. Which means basically like, yeah, I am doing this for all the way up. What I believe is [00:26:00] the greater good because I can use this to win for everyone, but we have to lose this one for me to do that.
Which he doesn't say that outright. That's kind of what he means when he goes, I'm trying to win it for all of us. Like, okay. Gotcha. Diane is, uh, rightfully. Annoyed. Um, we, we now, we then see the CEO back on the stand where he is literally trying to throw Dale on the bus saying all the fraudulent stuff.
That was all his idea. And we again, want to cross examine this guy. Breslo again is like, nah, I think we're good. We don't need to, we need to cross examine this guy. But, and then Diana and Alicia were like, Dale, let us help you. This man is lying about you. We need to answer that now and. You know, Dale's like, okay.
I, I, I, I guess so. I guess so. Uh, he, he slides Lecia and Diana at this point. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think there, where I was coming from was there was like, Bucky did offer something, but that's when like Diane and Diane and Alicia were like, [00:27:00] we should consider this, we should take it. And Breslow was like, nah. Like that comes, that comes after this moment because.
Alicia and Diane start playing the wiretap from Foster and his wife. That wasn't allowed previously, but they're like, but uh, they're like, oh, uh, hey, hey. We said we weren't gonna play that right because spousal privilege and Alicia pulls out the, well, it was spousal privilege when, uh, foster was a defendant.
He is no longer a defendant. He's just a witness. So. Now we can play it. We can play it, which is like, we play it. And in this dale basically like admits to to the fraud. He's like, I, you know, you know what would happen if this fraud was discovered? So obviously it's him being like basically acknowledging that he knows about the fraud.
Yes. Which then triggers Bucky into making this offer. Because now it's like, oh, okay, well let me try and recoup some losses. I can, let me at least get, because he offers four months in jail. Five a thousand dollars fine [00:28:00] for, for Dale. 'cause I think now he knows like, well, there's a chance we can lose this.
Because now with that, with that foster wiretap, it shows Foster is complicit in this. But let me try and get something out of, out of Dale. And that's what this offer was. It's like four months jail, 500 K in restitution, which they're all like, I love this because Bucky comes in, he offers it, and they're like all like, wait for him to turn the corner.
Like wait for him to leave till we can't see him anymore. And then we can all celebrate. Except for Breslow, who's like, no, don't do it. And I just feel bad for the, um, for Dale and Warren, because no, Owen is also sticking around in this mm-hmm. Which we'll talk about in a minute. But before they go in to hear this news, Owen goes up to these two men and are like, thank you as the gay.
Everything you're doing like this is huge. And it's like the pressure it when you are like the example, right? Like when you are the first one to break a barrier where when everything, like the amount of pressure that's on the [00:29:00] shoulders of these guys, they get this plea deal and then Breslow comes in and just reinforces the, like, it's not about you, it's about the community.
Like you could be doing this for everyone, um, but in the end they decide they are not. Taking the plea. Yeah, that was really interesting because they, they're first celebrating, they're like, ha, only four months in jail. Great. I, I'll take that. Because even though it seems like Owen. Not, not Owen. Even though it seems like Dale didn't do this and wasn't like really aware of what was going on, he's, he's still gonna have to take some kind of fall because he is like, well, I thought I was gonna get 12 years and they're only offering four months.
I'll freaking take it. Yeah. And in this moment where you mentioned where Owen is in the lobby and talking to Warren. And he is like, you are doing so much for the gay community. Like, yeah, really loving it. Which is not, not the, not what Warren needed to hear as he's going in. No. And hearing from Breslow who was being like, yeah.
You know, you can take this four [00:30:00] months, you can do your time, but what is that gonna do for the cause, the, the gay Cause, right? You guys, you guys really want you, you need to fight this. This is not just about you, it's about everyone. It's about sacrifice and partly, partly because Warren just got this like.
Nice message from Owen about fighting for the gays. Oh, Owen helped Breslow's cause, and he didn't even realize he did. And Warren's like, I think we should, you know, fight it. Which is like, oh, like Di Diane, Elise are so annoyed, like, oh my God, we had it in the bag. Then Breslow comes in here with his, you know, selling job and gets them to turn down this offer.
And I love Diane. She's like, well. You know, all we gotta do now is, uh, we, we gotta do something else. And it's like, do you mean win? She's like, yeah, we're gonna f we gotta f and win this thing now because you know, we can't, we can't, we gotta let this go. We can't let this thing go, you know, to, and so I think it's interesting 'cause I think Diane's in an [00:31:00] interesting, like, because conundrum here, because I think we, we know Diane is like super.
Liberal and I, well, she considers herself to be, yes, considers herself to be super liberal, and I'm sure she has empathy for the cause and all this, but also she wanna win. Okay, well, at this, not at the expense of the firm. Not at the expense of, you know what I mean? Like I'm sure she was like super excited.
She's like, Jeremy Pressler, liberal lion. Like I'm so excited that like this guy's in my office. So great. But at the end of the day, it wasn't what's best for the client nor the firm, right? And that's their job is to fight for their client no matter what. And so now she's kind of like. I, I don't care what Breslow says, I don't even care what Dale says.
Yeah, he's our client, but at Dale, acting, Dale's acting up. So now we gotta just win this thing. So the choice is taken out of Dale's hands, whether or not to take a plea offer or whatever. 'cause if we let that go, then Dale's gonna choose. The, you know, the, a harder way for the quote [00:32:00] unquote sacrifice. So we're now, we're just got to win it.
It's almost like Thanos putting on the, the Infinity goal, like, fine, I'll do it myself.
Yes. So determined to when they bring in an IT guy, Gio, who says that Dale is innocent and the servers were down in the time of question and he has not been, and he could not have seen or been impacted by.
This at all? Yeah. B Brazil's like, okay, that's cool. Like, do you think Dale's an honest man? Yeah. Well, because Diane's leading the questioning at, at first, Diane's done. She's like, all right, cool. I did that. I did the thing. Done, done, done. Then Brazel gets up, he's like, oh, hey, by the way, do you think Dale's an honest guy?
Everyone's just kind of like, huh, where's this coming from? What'd you that for? And then, you know, and, and you know, Ardio was like, yeah, I mean, I trust this guy with my life. Like, that's great. And because Breslow opened up this door, like this was a character [00:33:00] question, right? Like this was a question to Dale's character.
Bucky sees this moment and is like, Hey, uh, about that character. Um, did you ever sleep with that character? Did you ever have a moment with that character? And Diane tries to object, but Buck, he says, uh, because Barlow asked about, you know, um, K's, thoughts about Dale, that he is able to, to ask, ask this question.
Yeah. And you know, this is what, like this, this is like, this is brazel not just like sitting back and letting things happen. This is him actively trying to sink this thing. Yes. Because he, he knew what he was doing. I don't even, I, I wouldn't even put it past Brazil to like. Conspired with Bucky before this question up.
Oh, for sure. Like, listen, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. So that's your cue to ask 'em about if they ever begged each other. And so Lisa's like, you're trying to screw us. Bruce's like, I'm just trying to play long ball, ma'am. Just trying to play long ball. I was like, not, you're not even hiding it anymore. You like that?
You're just like trying to tank us. Like at that point, I wonder what [00:34:00] the process is to be like. We are not, like Breslow is no longer part of our defense team. Do they have to go to Dale, be like Dale? Which, well, Dale has been like bamboozled by Breslow already. Yeah. So Dale is already fine with losing this thing, so, you know, I don't That won help you, he was down for the cause, like he was, he, yeah.
Alicia and Diane are fighting against everybody here at this point. They're, they're fighting against their client. They're fighting against this. Co-counsel. They now have, they're fighting against Bucky. They're, they're on all sides fighting. Everybody now. Later randomly, Kalinda and Alicia and Carrie were at the bar together.
Yeah. And um, Kalinda is like, Hey. Oh yeah, by the way, so there was like an over tap on the tap, which means there were two people tapping. There were two taps. That's a lot of tapping going on in this episode. Tap, tap and all. And always there was some tapping going on. Okay. Um, so they're like, oh, okay, well then what else was going on?
Someone else must have been investigating. Uh, Dale, we gotta [00:35:00] figure this out. Good thing they did that episode a while ago that I completely forgot about, but it still re remembers all about wire tapping. Remember when it was like the 25, 16 or whatever? Yep. Yep. Um, Bucky Bucky comes back and we tell him that the state is investigating.
On some embezzlement charges. The second tab gives us some more info, including that foster, the CEO has a yacht purchased with the money from the fraudulent returns. And he admitted this in a call. To who? His wife. His his CFO. His best friend? No, no, no, his mistress. So, um, they aren't gonna take the plea bargain at the end of the day, and they present this to court.
And it, if they presented to court, it'll embarrass the state. Bristol is annoyed because his cause is like down the drain at this point. Yeah. And he's like, tells you, just stuck, stuck us with DOMA for another decade. Okay. It only took three years. Like, yeah, no, listen, but But also, yes. I [00:36:00] mean, and it wouldn't have been a guarantee that you're going to, you know, because you lost this case that we were gonna like get rid of.
That would've been a guarantee, Bri. Okay. So Well, and it could have taken 10 years to get to the Supreme Court also. Yeah. You know what I mean? Stick it in your ear. Stick it in your ear. Um, we do like, I, I guess like we do get like a little more resolution to this within the family. Story because when everyone, when all the family's at Thanksgiving dinner we see on TV that Breslow is doing some kind of interview on TV where he is like, well, you know, I coulda, I coulda lost this case.
We could have used that, but I decided it was for the betterment of the client that we win this case. And Alicia and Diana like bullshit. Like this fricking guy over here. Yes. Yes, exactly. Uh, before we jump into the family stuff, let's talk about the Carrie of it all. Mm-hmm. Because that's where episodes started.
Um, carrie's just like stopping by Nick's, you know, place of business, AKA. Tow [00:37:00] truck land and, uh, yeah. Well, let's, let's, let's remind the listeners where we left off last episode. Sure. Uh, where a figure that looks kind of like Carrie was getting his ass. I, it was, it was so bad. It was obviously a stunt double that like had a like.
Barely a resemblance to Carrie in that he was a white, blonde person, uh, was getting his ass beat in the rain, in the parking garage. And so, yeah. Now Carrie shows up at Nick's tow yard. Did you think Carrie should have had some more, like, because she, didn't he put f did he put makeup on? Like, I don't know, like, like the blackest of eyes that I would've expected?
Yeah. Or, and always like, like he could have had like a limp or a, or a. Blin or something like that. Like just something, yeah, like, or sling, you know, he had a little blemish on his face. It's like, I feel like he shoulda had a lot more damage from what we saw. It was a very direct black eye. It like wasn't like.
It was like, how did your eyeball not fall out? If it [00:38:00] was just, 'cause it was basically just eyeshadow. Yeah. It wasn't anything like around the eye or anything. Yeah. They could have done a better job of that. I feel like. I think we should have open, like, we should have like a little scene with Carrie where he's like getting ready for the day.
He's putting on his like his shirt, you know, like, ow, ow. Like we should like see bruises. Yeah. All over him or something. We see him putting makeup on his face to cover the black eye because at this, when I look at camera, I'm like. That's it. That's all you got from that beat down was like a little bit of bruising around your eye.
And then we, whenever he interacts with anybody else in the episode, they're like, oh my God, okay, what happened? He is like, basketball injury. I'd be like, nah, nah son, I'm snitching. I'm like, Nick had his people come beat me up. I got my ass beat. But he in the garage, he wants to catch him in something good.
He wants to make sure that this guy goes down because he comes up to Nick and says, Hey. I don't, well, first of all, Nick's like, where'd you get that? He's like, oh yeah, basketball. Like again, everybody, basketball, elbow to the eye, whatever. Um, but [00:39:00] curious, like, did I ever tell you. Did I ever tell you I worked for the state's attorney?
That that's something I, I mentioned, because I know that there were drugs found in a couple of the cars that you've been towing and all this stuff, and so I just wanna let you know that I looked into it like I, for your protection, I am talking to the state's attorney's office about you. Is that just. Is that cool?
Like just FYI. That's what I'm doing. That's the type of lawyer I am. You don't have to worry about it. Like, I am here to protect you. And I think he's doing this because one, he wants to threaten him, but two, if Nick does something at all, he's gonna jail like in two seconds. Yeah. I love the kind of like light intimidation that Carrie was practicing here.
Like, Hey, I got connections. I got resources. Yes, yes. I also don't f with me. Yeah. I also loved how Carrie, 'cause Carrie and Alicia like share the office. Carrie, this entire episode was basically like kicked out of the office. Yeah. And sitting [00:40:00] outside. So funny. Waiting on this like a little kid. Like a little kid being put out.
Put out this mommy's office. So funny. And also like, we also got to like learn a little bit more about like what Nick's operation is because mm-hmm. This is how Nick is dealing drugs. Making sure the drugs are in the trunk of cars that he is transporting via his tow truck so that he can, they could have, you know, plausible deniability be like, oh, I didn't know there were drugs in the car.
What do you mean? I was just towing the car. Yeah. So it's nice to get a little more insight about what exactly Nick is doing and what his plot is. Kind of a smart. Pot, I guess. Uh, it's not the worst one I've ever heard. Yeah. Interesting way to transport drugs. Uh, so yeah, enjoyed the kind of, uh, intimidation that Carrie was serving unto Nick, and, and there was no Nick Kalinda interaction as I episode.
I'm fine with that. I'm fine with that. Which I was very, very happy with. So, uh, you know, good, good on us for not having to deal with that today. Um, yeah. But we did have to deal with [00:41:00] family. We did have to deal with family. Uh, at the start of this episode, Owen is like. Around, which is always gonna be like a family thing.
Um, but it turns out that Alicia's mom was coming to town and she has been mentioned a couple of times in previous episodes, and I could not remember who she was, she was portrayed by. Uh, but we do meet Veronica, played by. Stalker. Channing, my first lady. You're First Lady Stalker Channing. So, because this, she was the first lady on the West Way.
Is that what this is? Yeah. But yeah, my fantasy one, my real one is Michelle Obama still, but like, um, in my fantasy world, Mrs. Bartlett, um, yeah. Stalker Channing. Yeah. Uh, also in Greece. Yes. Rizzo. Marissa went Greece, um, and, and make a bunch of other things, a bunch of other stuff. Um, listen, I've, you know, I, I think I, if you would've asked me before we did this, you know, podcast about Alicia's mom, I might've been able to place [00:42:00] the face, but now that it's back and I'm seeing like, this was like really, really, really great casting because this is like, oh, so good.
So good. So good. So good. So good. Um, Veronica's kind of like, you know, free spirit. Yeah. Which kind of explains why Alicia is not, you know? Mm-hmm. Because she would have to like, you know, basically she's the eldest daughter. She had two eldest daughter her entire life because her mom was out and about. Her dad's love kind of a parentified child in a way.
Yeah. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And Alicia's back in town, you know, she hasn't been around a two or Veronica's back in town because she hasn't been in in two years. Oh. And also. Um, her latest husband died and cut her outta the will. And so she needs like Alicia and, you know, Owen's been saying just like how great of a lawyer that Alicia is, so she's the only one who could really help with this.
Yeah. I love how kooky Veronica is. 'cause because you, she shows up, she's like, oh, you know, I got his will. He left [00:43:00] everything to me. Alicia looks at it for like one second. She's like. Mom, this is a summons that you missed yesterday and apparently you've been cut out the wheel entirely. And she's like, oh really?
Huh. Interesting about that. Yeah. So funny. So hilarious. And at this point we like, we don't see Malcolm, 'cause obviously he has passed away, but his son does not like Veronica at all one bit. And he is claiming that Veronica cheated. And this is so funny because Veronica told or told Owen that she did cheat and that Owen told them.
Alicia. And so now they're in this like, okay, what happens? And Owen is gonna get called later for summons for dissertation in this situation. But she ends up, she did, she did end up, um, cheating. And so Alicia's like, I know just the person to help you. Mom got this. Yeah. David Lee. David Lee is loving it.
David Lee is in his best. He is in his bag. He loves, he loves these type of cases. I, I really enjoyed the Veronica David [00:44:00] Lee meeting as these two kind of like over the top personalities meeting together. Well, and she was a little flirty. No, a little, I mean, a little bit, a little bit, little flirty. And they were, David was also also, like, David was also into it.
He is like, oh, you, you, you we're kind of sparring back and forth. Yes. Yes. Uh, let's also talk about Veronica's entrance into the law firm as a whole. When she goes to meet David Lee. 'cause like they're talking, they have the m and ms, and then she sees Will and Owen talking together and thinks, oh my God.
Mm-hmm. Owen must be having a new boyfriend or something. Let me go over and introduce myself. And Alicia isn't there yet. She walks in later and I just thought that was such a fun little, so good moment of, you know, a mom thinking like. Wanting to cheer on Owen, and then it's also her daughter's ex-boyfriend, basically.
So I just love it. I love a couple times the episode it was, it was Alicia walking into a conversation that Veronica has had with somebody and be like, oh my God, you're so embarrassing. I need to get you outta here. [00:45:00] Yes. Yes. Like Mom, this is my boss slash uh, former lover that you're embarrassing me in front of.
Let's get you out of here. Well, and Will is like, so this is your mom. Like, you know, like they don't have that conversation, but the vibe is definitely like, I'm so enjoying talking to your mom. Yeah. It's just like if we were still, uh, if we were still doing the th thing, I'd make fun of you about your mom, but we're not, so I'm gonna be like, mom's real interesting.
So as we was talking about, Malcolm's son is pressuring Owen to testify, like basically gets him a summon to testify in this dissertation, in this probate hearing. Um, and Owen's like, what should I do, Alicia? Because like, I know things and Alicia's like, get out of town. Just tell the truth. Like, why are you even talking to me?
Alicia's like, what do you mean Owen? Do what I would do. Be a goody goodie and tell the truth. I do also love where, because Alicia knows that. Mom admitted to Owen. She tries to tell David this, and David's like David's way. She like puts his head up like, la, la, la, [00:46:00] la, la. I don't hear you. I don't hear you. I don't know what you're talking about.
Like, stop telling me things because she tried to tell David like, no, David, you don't understand. My mom actually cheated on this guy. He's like, he's like, blah, la la, la la. I don't hear you. I don't hear you. And he's like, he's like, Veronica's going there and tell Veronica's her version of the truth, which that she did not cheat on this man.
And that's all to it. Do not tell anyone else what you know, like lay off it. Like I, and we, well, listen. We know that David is not above, uh, people perjuring themselves. Yeah, him perjuring himself. He not above it. He don't care. I don't know what Alicia thought she's accomplishing by telling him this. He's like, why are you like, don't mess listening.
Magic. Shut the hell up. Like, do not say anything else like you are. Too goody goody for this stop. I love that from Damon. And you know, she go, well, first of all oh, gets on the stand and he does a good job of answering the questions he has asked because, well, no, he flat out lies and he lied. I thought he was like, okay.
Like he didn't, no, he flat out lied [00:47:00] because they're in the deposition. Yeah. And the lawyer for the son is like, so, uh, the son tells me that you told him that Veronica was cheating on his dad. Is that true? Owen goes, no, that's not true. Oh, I and the guy's like, you're lying. You're lying. And, and Alicia.
Alicia, who I think. Recognizes the spot that Owen's in, because I think, yes, Owen probably has this, like if I was to guess about the family structure that Owen and Alicia had, Owen was probably closer to their mom, Alicia, probably close to their dad or something. Yeah. So Owen feels this like duty to his mother, and Alicia kind of looks at him like, oh, you, well, you still that poor, sweet little boy that doesn't want to disappoint mom, doesn't wanna let mom down.
Well, and also like just from the eldest daughter perspective mm-hmm. Like, if mom has no money, she's gonna have to live with me. You know what I mean? Like, but like, if, if me, I would, I don't know if Owen was thinking about this as like, but if, if she gets this, then [00:48:00] she doesn't have to be around us as much.
You know what I mean? Like, she, I thought it was more about like loyalty. I thought it was more about to, mom probably would like, I'm mommy's little boy. I can't disappoint her, so I'm gonna do what she wants me to do and, and lie in, in this moment. And I think Alicia kind of like sees that she doesn't, I don't think she holds anything against Owen for lying.
'cause she kinda looks at him like, oh. You still that little sweet boy. Oh, doesn. And then she gets up and leaves though. She's like, oh yeah. I mean, because she, she has to attend to her other, her other case. 'cause she like literally has to like, run over because she sees, uh, Bucky coming into the office.
She's like, oh, let me go figure out what, what fire I gotta put out over here. Yes, yes. And then Veronica does testify. She says she, I flirted, but I didn't cheat. Well, that's not her testimony. That's just, that's just her talking to Alicia. Like, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't cheat per se, but you know me, I'm a big flirt, like, you know.
And I mean, as you get older, is this a defense that, like your memory is unreliable? I guess. I mean, listen, Marissa, you're not even that old and your memory's going, so I know today's been rough. Okay. Like I [00:49:00] will, I will admit today has been rough. It's just, I, I have no excuses. It's 2025, but, um. Yes. I, and I do love when, like, when Veronica's like in Alicia's house, she's like, she's doing that thing where she's being like very subtly judgy.
Like, not like, oh, you picked that pattern for your thing. I, I wouldn't have, but that's, it's your house. You go right on ahead. Yeah. Well, and then also, like, they have a really frank conversation about Alicia's life. Mm-hmm. Like, what are you gonna like. You're, are you mad at me for pursuing love? Why can't you pursue love?
Like, what's up with love? And this sticks in freaking Alicia's mind enough, uh, that during the, like we get to Thanksgiving dinner and everyone's coming in. Um, Jackie comes with her attitude of like, it's so nice of you to finally show up. The kids were wondering, oh man, if they had another grand grandmother and Veronica like, knows Jackie's game and was like, Uhhuh.[00:50:00]
No. Well, and this, it's so fun to watch Jackie and Veronica Spar because they're both kind of, uh, giving it as good as they're getting because, uh, you know. Uh, Jackie has Christian, who Jackie and Christian are doing very well. Well, whatever together. Um, where, you know, Jackie's like, oh, it's, it's great that you're here.
The kids are wondering where their, their grandmother was. And Barack is like, oh, it's so great that you have a, you know, a young companion. You're not to beg for it anymore. And, and she goes, like, and I know people in your family love to pay for companionship. It's like, oh, snap. Yeah, that was good. It was so, so good.
I love them sparring and trading barbs. I, I really loved it. Uh, um, well, and Veronica's like, hello to Peter was just like, mm-hmm. Yes. Very cool. Uhhuh. Yep. Has See Veronica love her. Oh, she made a good, she made a good stock. She made a good stock. And, and yeah, like, you know, and Veronica, who, you know, she's having this, I, I think she, [00:51:00] she can, her point of view is that Alicia.
Should not be sticking to Peter. Like Peter hurt her. Alicia should be doing what she wants to do. And Alicia, Alicia is stuck with Peter. That's why she won't pursue Will, who she knows she has. Yeah. She has that whole conversation with Peter. Yeah. And it's Let her go. You let her go because, and, and when, when, uh, Veronica and Alicia were talking, and it's, it's funny because she's like, you won't even let yourself go, go after this.
This guy at work will when you obviously have a, when you have a crush on him, which is, you know, because Oh, uh, uh. Veronica brings up Will to Alicia, and Alicia is like, Owen, what have you done? What did you do? Like, did you tell, did you tell her I slept with Will? She's like, no. I just told him, I just told mom that you have a, you have a crush on Will.
And so from Veronica's standpoint, she's like, you won't even let yourself, you know, be happy and go with, go with this will guy. Listen, mom, little do you know Alicia Wilberg. Um, she will sometimes, and then she'll get scared and then she'll say to herself, I know how I will show it [00:52:00] to you, mom. I'm gonna take Peter into the bathroom and we're gonna have sex on the toilet.
'cause that's sanitary. And yeah, 'cause like it is like. Mom, you didn't know know anything because I was banging will for quite a while. So save it. I did do what made me happy for a while and then I decided not to. And now just to piss you off, I am going to bang Peter in the bath. This, I mean, listen, we've talked about the good wife pushing, I pushing network boundaries before this was this one.
This one, yeah. It was quite a scene where like Alicia, and you know what, Alicia's got that like. Determined Terminator. Look, something's going on. She calls Peter to the bathroom, takes her pants off, which was like, okay. Like we, of course we don't see the bottom half. Whatcha doing what? Yeah, he's like, what's going on?
What's happening? She's like, she sits him on the toilet and lowers herself Onto, onto [00:53:00] Peter. Peter starts, uh. There's this hesitation you can put Stop riding. Stop riding. I'll just say that. Yes. On the toilet, Peter's like, the door's not unlocked. She's like, I, she's like, is this about your mother? She's like, I don't give up.
And we hear no sirens outside. She goes, is the door open? I don't care. Is this about your mother? Uhhuh? Yeah, Uhhuh. At that point I was like, good. At least Peter is not like, it's not for you, Peter. It's her own. But listen, if I'm Peter, I don't care what this is for this, this is happening and probably hasn't happened.
Well, I don't know what, do you think this has happened or is it the last time outside of a bathroom? I don't know. Well, I mean, we don't, like, we've gotten like hints at how they're. Quote, relationship is going. I don't think they're like, have they banged since? No. Before she found out about Kalinda? I don't think so.
Yeah. But this was, this was [00:54:00] something, oh, well, no, like they did, they had that other thing in the bathroom. But that was before she found out about Kalinda. Was it? Yeah. Oh, okay. Where he was being weird and creepy. Right. That's what you're talking about, like a normal, yeah. Um. But yeah, this was quite something.
I also love the, uh, the ion and Jackie stuff where Peter's like, so how's my mom? He's like, oh, she's doing great. She's doing, she's doing awesome. He's like, okay, cool. Cool's like, yeah. She even by hours, like, is that necessary? He is like. No it's not. And penis obviously like weirded out and like, okay, what, what is going on here?
And you just tell that Jackie is like, has the eyes for Christian so far? Well, she loves anyone who's gonna give her attention. Really? Yeah. Um, but I really hope. This is not, I cannot remember, but I hope it's not the last we see of Veronica, because, uh, give me, if we're gonna have Jackie, I need a Veronica to like balance, balance it out.
Or I need [00:55:00] both of them to spar with each other a lot. Well, yeah, I, I looked up the IDB on Veronica. She's going to be like, she's gonna be here. Yay. Not a whole lot, but she's a lot more ofso than I thought she would be in. That's exciting because I just finished my west wing, uh, rewatch. So I need to, you know, keep some stalker, chanting around.
She's amazing. Stalker, chanting. Love her. She's great. She's so fun in this. Uh, and, and I love to see like where Alicia came from and why she is what she is, but she is. To be a stark contrast to her mother, uh, because of whatever childhood she went through. Well, and it also, I think she shed's light on how Owen is the way that Owen is, because like Owen probably had Alicia to allow himself to be himself and like, be free.
And, and sometimes, you know. Alicia has moments like when she stood on a car outside, remember when she stood on a car get road trip to get wifi? Yeah. To get wifi. Or like, she, she has moments of [00:56:00] riskiness and stuff like that. So, yeah. And I think we see that, we see the most vulnerable Alicia when she's with, uh, her family.
With Owen. Yeah, with Veronica here. I think that's the most, that's the only one we, we see The real Alicia or the past Alicia, I should say, maybe is what she feels. The most kind of like herself. I think also classic grandma move to bring a giant giraffe. Yes. We better see that giant giraffe somewhere else in, in the show, like whereas in Grace's room we see the giant giraffe in the corner.
Well, um, as per mentioned, my memory has been pretty rough this week. So Jason, did I miss anything? Is there anything else we need to touch on or do you think we've wrapped up episode nine? I think we've got it. I think we're good. Uh, do you want to tell the people where they can find you and what you're up to these days?
Yes, sure. You can find me at it's me marissa g.com, where I have links to all of the podcasts that I'm on, including this one. You can find a link to our YouTube channel. If you're not [00:57:00] watching us on YouTube or if you're watching us on YouTube, you can find a link to the podcast. Whichever way we like, you know, you be you.
Uh, there's no defense of podcast listening here, like we don't discriminate. You call it a podcast on YouTube, that's fine. I'm not gonna get mad at you. Like some people are really mad about that. I'm not one of those people. Uh, you can also hear me on the Whirlwind Podcast Network, talking about Pretty Little Liars when previously honored at a time or with my sister on the fin on the USS sisterhood and our final frontier of watching Star Trek, the Next Generation.
We're just about to start up season three, which just brings us to Jason the year 19. 90. Wow. So yeah, I wasn't even born yet. You were too. You were too. You're not that younger. You're not younger. No. What, what? Don't do that. Don't do that to me. Brain brain's already in nappy sta Anyway. Like, I think I took too much magnesium, but um, yeah.[00:58:00]
The nineties. You were alive for a while. What? No, not as as much as me, but a while. I don't know what you're talking about. I am a young ever events person. Well, I'm, yeah, we're, you're much younger than I am. 'cause I'm the one staying home watching Ken Burn documentaries. Um. That's not an age thing, that's just a nerd thing.
It's true. It's, they're so comforting. It's like it comforts my nervous system. Anyway, Jason, that's what's going on with me. Maybe a little bit more than I needed to share, but what's going on with you? Um, yeah, I have, she's obviously going through something. Um, you can find me, uh, talking about the show Radio First site on a number of different platforms.
Uh, you can find me on the podcast Network on the Love. Uh. Love at First Sight Feed on the Perfect Match Podcast. A lot of names I know Stick with me. Uh, if you type in Love at First Sight, you'll find it. We're talking about the wrap up to Murder First Sight season 19. We just had the Decision Day and Reunion podcast that we [00:59:00] did.
So that is wrapping up the season for, for now. Uh, you can also find us on Patreon at the same. Podcast, the perfect match, uh, patreon.com/perfect match podcast as we talk to different guests about the season that's been going on. So check that out as well. You can also find me on the podcast Altar Call as I talk with t uh, who was guest on this podcast, uh, not that long ago, uh, as I talked to her about the union episode of Murder First Sight, season 19.
Uh, that's where you can find me. Listen, if you need to know my thoughts on the end of Murder First Sight, 19. There are so many places you can go this week to find it. Um. But yes, uh, that's where you can find me. That's where you can find Marissa. And until next episode, stay good.