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Welcome to "Visionary Voices" the podcast where we dive into the minds of business owners, founders, executives, and everyone in between.
Each episode brings you face-to-face with the leading lights of industry and innovation.
Join us as we uncover the stories behind the success and the lessons learned along the way.
Whether you're climbing the corporate ladder or just starting your business journey, these are the conversations you need to hear - packed with visionary voices and insights.
Let's begin.
So thank you for joining me on today's episode.
Can you give me a little bit of history about what it is that you've been doing over the
last few years and what you're currently working on?
And then we can dive into that as well.
Yeah, sure.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me today.
I'm really excited to do this.
so a little bit about me, I just actually, freed myself from corporate America, I guess
you could say not so very long ago.
It was, in March of this year.
And I walked away after, 25 plus years working in a fortune 75 companies and decided that
I really wanted to go out on my own.
and have an opportunity to work with more people besides just the people in the company
that I was working at to help them grow their leadership skills and to become stronger
leaders.
So that's, I've spent the last, what is it?
I guess seven months or so really standing up my business and starting to do that work
with some really amazing people and seeing their growth already.
So it's exciting times.
Yeah, definitely.
So what was the moment that you realised you needed to maybe get out of the corporate, you
know, the corporate work-life balance and, you know, the work and everything for you to go
and pursue your own thing?
What was that change and shift for yourself?
Yeah, it's a good question.
I don't know if there is an actual moment.
I guess there is because of any decision.
It really only takes like one second to make the decision, right?
It's like, boom, I've made the choice, but it's the lead up time that really is, I think
the true story.
And for me, that was a bit of a slow boil, if you will, because it was this underlying
current of, you know, times where I felt, you know, really fulfilled and times where I
felt really frustrated.
And just kind of going back and forth with that until I got to the point that I said, you
know, I feel like I've, I've done what I can do in this space.
I've grown some really amazing people and I'm feeling like now maybe I'm not growing
myself.
And, that was really where that, I think that moment hit where I realized that I needed, I
was in a comfort zone and I needed to stretch myself.
If I was truly going to be the type of executive coach and leadership.
you know, facilitator that I wanted to be, I needed to get out of my own comfort zone.
So I grabbed my personal little snow globe and I'm like, yeah, shake.
Yeah, I think that's the story for a lot of people, Is that they get into into a role,
very exciting in the beginning, learning a lot of new things, but then you get to a point
where, as you said, you're not really growing anymore and you just get a bit bored about
it and you start to also spot all the things that happening in the workplace, which, you
you are like, why are these things happening?
Like this shouldn't be happening.
And then that leads you to create your own solution to those problems.
and then you can build your business around that.
And I'm assuming that that's what you've done, right?
You've had all of this experience and now you've pivoted into, okay, I've noticed these
things, we can solve these things.
So what are the types of problems that you solve right now and your business is working
actively to try solve?
Yeah, that's a good question.
really kind of my, guess, bread and butter, if you will, is helping leaders who are
working in transformation spaces.
So where they're not happy with the status quo, where they're really wanting to shake
things up a bit, cause some disruption in order to make growth happen and have the next be
better.
I kind of picture that almost like a seed, right?
You have this little tiny seed and you plant it.
and you nurture it, but in order for it to actually sprout, this disruption has to happen,
right?
This pressure builds inside of it until it just bursts out and this disruption happens.
And transformation is a lot like that.
So what I've been working with is leaders who are trying to make that burst happen so that
new growth can occur.
And it's not an easy task, right?
You're told no a lot and you have a lot of people who cross their arms and they're like,
nope, not gonna do it.
or they look at you and they say, yeah, no, we definitely want to do that.
Then as you walk away, they go, yeah, not going to do it.
So, you know, it's, can be a bit of a long slog for, for leaders who are really trying to
do that and helping them understand the human psychology behind change and their own, like
their own limiting beliefs that might be slowing them down or getting in the way.
That's what I've been doing.
And it's been pretty fun.
Yeah, it sounds like such an interesting area because because you're right, know a lot of
times there's problems in the business They're not changing at all, right?
They're staying really rigid and then it gets that boiling point where then I said
disruption happens, right things need to change and you know, that's always like a boiling
point and sometimes it could be very catastrophic because some of the issues have been
bubbling for so long, know, could be if it's a small company the team being unhappy and
then eventually half the team leaves and the business is like, what do we do, you know,
and so
here?
Yeah.
yeah, exactly.
And a lot of times people don't really realize until after the things happened, you know,
all the problems that they were having before.
So what's some of the things you do to go into a business and spot some of those
challenges and the companies that need to go through that change process and then start
transforming the company?
Yeah, so it kind of depends on which hat I'm wearing.
Honestly, as a coach, it's all about the leader that I'm working with.
So for them, it becomes really understanding their why.
And there's a tool that I use called the Y dot os that that's like the first thing that we
do, because I want to understand what really motivates them.
You know, I think Simon Sinek that says, like, if you know your why, right, you kind of
then you know where you're you know what's motivating you.
So that's the first thing we do.
And then, you know, if possible, we do that with other people in their organization,
because a lot of times what we'll find is there's conflicting whys.
Some people just want to challenge everything, where other people are really all about
contribution, and that can create a lot of friction.
And when we can unwind that, then we start to understand what limiting beliefs might
people be holding, what might be getting in the way of them being able to actually come
together, collaborate more strongly, and move forward.
If I'm looking at an advisory perspective, then that's a bit of a different ballgame
because instead of going in as a coach where I'm just going to be asking a lot of powerful
questions and helping people gain awareness and develop their own strategies, I'm going in
and actually helping them develop those strategies.
So with the advisory services, that becomes more of asking again, a lot of questions to
understand what's been happening and a lot of observation.
Mmm.
sometimes it takes that outside person coming in and watching to see maybe some
dysfunction that others have just grown really accustomed to, to see where some people are
perhaps sitting in comfort and not willing to challenge somebody else that they need to be
challenging in order to actually get past a certain obstacle.
And then a lot of times that involves just really looking at their strategy because, you
know, nine times out of 10, there's a strategy of
we want to do this.
Not really a strategy, it's a goal.
And so they don't really know how they're going to get there.
So starting to help break that down into smaller bite sized pieces to say, okay, what's
the first step of that?
And what does the outcome of that look like?
And how do we do that?
That's, that's the tactic.
Yeah, no, I love what you said about not only asking these questions to, you know, the
leaders within the company, but also other people that work in the company, because when
there is that difference in mission, as you said, they can cause those conflicts.
But a lot of the times, I think as leaders or owners of a company, some people can be
like, you know, it's my way or the highway, right?
That type of thought process.
But that's just not how you grow a team to be very efficient and work really well.
You need to understand and
then you can adopt and tailor your language to the language other people also speak, let's
say.
And someone in sales taught me this about how to sell is people, when they speak to you,
will tell you how to be sold, right?
Maybe they're more technical, maybe they're more top level, maybe they're like going into
all the little fine details of things.
And I guess when you have these conversations with everyone, you can understand, okay, how
do these guys like to be spoken to, right?
What resonates with them?
What's their mission?
And then you can figure out a way to align it all.
to make it all work really nicely together.
Right, the thing that I hate the most, think, if I can use that strong of a word, is when
I talk to a leader and they say, well, they all need to change.
Like, sweetheart, you go first.
You go first.
Let's look at what you need to change and how you're relating to your people.
And then we can also expect them to change because you're going first and you're setting
that example that everybody needs to see.
No, no, no, definitely.
it goes, you know, when it's creating the strategy, how does that work?
Like what goes into creating a good strategy to help them transform their companies?
Because I think strategy is one of those things which, as you said, is probably
misunderstood by a lot.
They have those goals, but don't quite understand how they're gonna get to those goals.
But that is what the strategy is.
So how do you go about forming those strategies and helping these companies form those
strategies?
great question.
Well, I can't give all my secrets away, but at the same time, know, a really good strategy
has to step back and look at not just the idealistic view, but the real view, because
there's always an ideal path.
But let's be honest, you're never going to get to accomplish the ideal path for anything
that you're trying to achieve.
So the strategy has to step back and say, you know, what are all the moving pieces and
parts?
It's like putting together a car engine.
You know, at the end of the day, you open the hood and you just see this big thing, but
how many bolts and screws and gears and all of these, you know, switches are in there that
are actually making that ignition happen and the movement happen.
So I think when you're really looking at strategy, you need to start unwinding all of
that.
Who really are all of your stakeholders?
It's not just your executives, right?
It's not just your customers.
It's your people, it's your legal, it's your risk, it's your compliance.
It's all of these different players that have to come together for this.
What did they need in order to get buy-in for this?
What will they have to do in order to help make this happen?
So it's looking at all the different puzzle pieces and starting to bring all of those
together and then sorting out from a really great organizational change management
perspective, how do we begin to tell this story?
How do we paint this vision so that everybody
You know, I don't want to say there was a, there was a icebreaker I used to do years and
years ago with leaders where I would ask them to all grab a piece of paper.
And I would say, you know, I want you to, I did it to one of two ways.
One, it'd just be like draw a pig.
Mm.
Right?
And then we would look at the differences.
For the other way, would say draw a circle.
Put two triangles on top of the circle.
Draw a circle within the circle.
And I'm describing like what I thought a child's drawing of a pig would look like.
But what you get are very, very different things.
And I think it's a really great visualization of what can happen so often with a strategy.
People will say, we want this, but they don't really roll it back and say, and this is
what it looks like.
And so people might think that they're contributing, but what they're really doing is
creating conflict because they all have a very different view of what a pig looks like.
wow, you know, that's such a powerful way to think through it.
Like, it's very simple, but it's very powerful at the same time because you know, you're
right.
You might tell someone the mission, right, or the general strategy of something, but they
just interpret it a completely different way.
And then as you said, it creates those conflicts within the team and the business.
So it's such an interesting way to look at it.
So when it comes down to, you know, figuring out your strategy and everything, what's
really the next steps to maybe implement the strategy after that point?
Because what does that look like?
Because I think
Again, we can create the best strategies, but then how do we make sure it's being
implemented and followed and they're using it?
Well, people have to have skin in the game, don't they?
I mean, there, and there has to be accountability.
So then it's, it's a matter of bringing your, your leadership team together and making
sure that we all have the same, the same picture in our head of what, what a pig looks
like, you know, if I can hold onto that for a second.
So we all have that same view and we're all saying, okay, no, this, this is what we're
trying to build.
Because again, if, if your CTO and you know, your
business leader have two very different views of the same thing, you're going to wind up
with again, a lot of conflict.
So making sure people are on the same page, that there is accountability.
And then there has to be the right checks and balances along the way.
how, how are we going to do check-ins?
How are we going to make sure that we're staying on the same page?
Because if we're all headed here and there's just one degree of deviation, we're not going
to end up in the same place.
So how do we keep the
the joint vision, the joint view together and how do we make sure that we're all being
accountable to each of our individual parts so that when we actually develop this
holistically, we're where we need to be.
Yeah, it makes so much sense.
how does it differ, I guess, on the size of the different companies?
Because of course, like, guess, a solo entrepreneur that's starting to build out a team is
going to think very differently versus, you know, a huge enterprise company.
So what differences have you seen in that aspect of things when it comes down to those
individuals and how you implement these strategies?
it's a great question and great thought about that because it's, I think the challenges
are the same.
The complexity is what grows.
Because the more humans you add to anything, the more the complexity grows, the more the
likelihood for dissent or dissatisfaction begins to grow.
Because you have more people that you need to keep in the bubble, so to speak.
So I think that that's the biggest difference, whether it's a 20 person company or a
200,000 person company, is the complexity and the risk that you begin to have to mitigate,
but also could miss mitigating along the way becomes much more significant the bigger the
company gets.
Yeah, so I guess like the lesson here, if you are in that smaller company and that sort of
founder starting to build that team is to really implement these strategies and these
lessons early on so you don't get to the point of where it is very complex to try and
figure out.
Absolutely.
And you know, the other thing I have to say is I think we always need to remember, and
this is one of the things I always coach people about, we have to remember that a strategy
is a best guess at that moment.
So I think what happens in bigger companies, this is a big differentiator, in bigger
companies, a strategy can wind up being chiseled in stone.
And then it becomes, no, this is what we do.
This is what we said, this is what we're going to do.
But along the way, things shift and change.
So I always really encourage people, like you write your strategy in sand, right?
It's there, but you can easily shift it and change it if you need to.
Because we need to pay attention to what's happening along the way.
The market might change, the customer might change, the technology might advance.
So making sure that we are doing that recheck-in, maybe on a quarterly.
you know, or biannual basis to say, okay, are we still going in the right direction?
And if we're not, let's pause, reset, and go again to make sure that we're doing the right
things at the right time.
Yeah, it makes so much sense because I was speaking to someone on another podcast recently
and we're talking about, you know, when you have a plan, yes, it needs to be rigid, but
also it needs to also have the flexibility needed in order to change and overcome.
So I think the metaphor, you know, writing things in sand, yes, it's down, it's there.
But when you do reassess and figure out, okay, what is the outcome been so far, you can
then go in and make changes to it as and when you need to, to stay flexible and stay
nimble, I guess, on your feet.
Yeah, it's a big deal.
I think smaller companies do that more naturally than larger companies do, you know,
because they're smaller, they can they have probably more collaborative conversations more
often because they're smaller.
So yeah.
Yeah, no, no, really, really cool.
So, I mean, moving more towards, I guess, a little bit of the thinking of these leaders.
So what struggles have you had with some leaders when it comes to adopting this change?
Because as you mentioned before, some people are just set in their ways and really rigid.
So how do you inspire the transformation within them?
Because I know for myself, sometimes you get into the mindset of, this is what we're doing
and let's just do this.
But at the same time, we need to...
have those personality traits of being slightly flexible.
So what things have you found when speaking to some of these leaders and founders?
Yeah, you know, I think the one of the most powerful forces of the whole human psychology
is the need to stay consistent with how we define ourselves and what we believe we know.
So one of the largest challenges can be if somebody has has done this at another company
and they're coming in, they hold very tightly to, well, this is what we did at XYZ
company.
This is what worked for me before.
And I think that's a great starting point, but helping people change their definition
maybe of what has to happen can be really powerful because now we have different people
than you had at your previous company, right?
Where a year and a half later or two years later, so we have a different world because the
world is ever changing.
So I think that's, that's one of the biggest things is getting people.
Certainty is great, but when you cling to certainty of
what you've done before and what you believe you know, you're not really allowing room for
the what ifs to come in.
Yeah, you gotta have that room there so you can pivot and change as and when you need to
rather than just being fixed in your way, let's say.
So no, very, very interesting.
When it comes down to your business, right?
Because I know it's been like seven, eight months of you on this journey.
What's some of the challenges you found as, I guess, a new business, right?
Because I feel like in 2024, people start a business and there's so many...
problems that come along with it, right?
Whether it's like sales and marketing or strategy or whatever it looks like.
So for yourself, what's that look like for you and what are some of the things that you've
taken away from those lessons?
Yeah, well, the sales aspect is definitely a new thing for me.
It's not something I mean, I guess I've done it because I've convinced a lot of leaders
along my career to undertake significant changes.
That's sales.
But I had to realize that in my own head, because I went into this thinking, I don't
really want to do sales, I'm not good at sales.
And it took some some coaching of somebody else to me to help me be like, wait a second, I
have done sales before.
Yeah.
Like, and I'm not really trying to, you I'm not trying to be a used car salesman here and
you know, no shade on used car salesman, please.
No emails on that.
But you know, I'm not trying to go into like this, this notion of like the, person who's a
hard sale, right?
What I'm doing is offering a service for people that they either need or they don't.
They might need it they may not know they need it yet.
So the question is, can I help highlight that they need it?
You know, or
Not.
And if not, okay, they'll get there in their own time.
You know, I think it's, that's been one of the biggest shifts for me is just realizing
that it's okay to have not done this in this context before.
It's part of my own growth that I wanted to have happen.
And it's not going to be perfect every time out.
I'm going to talk to people who are never going to talk to me again.
I'm going to get ghosted.
I'm going to talk to people who are going to say, you know, no, I don't think we're the
right fit.
Okay.
And there's a couple of people that I've talked to where I didn't think we were the right
fit because I didn't see them really ready to do the work.
So that's, I think, been the biggest curve for me so far.
Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest things for new businesses, Is the sales aspect
because it can be like a big scary word sometimes.
So I need to sell people into whatever it is that we're doing.
But something that I was discussing with someone not too long ago is the relationship
aspect of sales is a lot of companies in the last like two, three years.
And this is just from our experience of working with clients and everything is everyone's
become very transactional in nature, right?
That used car salesman example, right?
It's just trying to get the transactions through, which is no bad thing, but.
in the B2B space and especially in the consultancy space, it's just about the
relationship.
Because when you build a relationship, you can identify, where are they on their buying
journey?
And then you can adopt the next steps to help them guide through that buying journey.
And eventually, hopefully at the end, they convert with us to help them with their
problems.
But in the interim period, it's just about the relationship aspect.
And when you think of it like that, for me at least, because I'm definitely not a good
transactional salesperson.
But when it comes to relationships and you just have normal conversations with people, it
gets to a point where you'll be doing them a disservice by not helping them with the
problems that they have and then the sales aspect becomes super easy overall.
So that's interesting that you've been noticing that as well because it's also something
that we've noticed a lot internally with clients as well.
no, it's so true.
it's and I love the you're right.
Transactional is what a lot of things have become.
It's you know, I was I was talking to one potential client and they said, Well, when will
I see results?
Well, I don't have an answer for that.
This isn't like a drive thru where you know, I pull up and I hand you some cash and you
give me a coffee.
This is a different situation because it depends on how much they're willing to lean into
this as well.
Like I can go in and do my part.
the client has to do their part.
Otherwise, there's not gonna be any change.
So, you know, there's that aspect of it.
It's funny because I actually read the other day, think it was 90 % of most leaders could
benefit from coaching, less than 1 % will take the initiative.
Wow.
yet for the people in that less than 1 % who do take the initiative, talk about an
advantage.
Yes, yeah, so, so true because in a world where everyone, you know, going back to the
sales point, right, in a world where everyone's transactional, if you can provide the
value and the relationship aspect of it compared to your competitors who aren't doing it,
you're going to stand out and just roll over them essentially in the long term.
So that's such an important distinction to make as well is just because not everyone is
doing it doesn't mean, you you should follow along and not do it as well.
It means that if you do take that leap and you do decide to make the changes and do the
work for it.
that could mean that you just elevate above everyone else in the market.
Competitive advantage is a real deal.
Yeah, 100%.
100%.
So awesome.
I mean, what else have you noticed then as like a new business owner?
You know, especially when it comes down to, I guess, maybe the marketing point of view as
well, because for myself, you I'm a marketer, always curious to learn what other people
are going through and what they're doing.
So for yourself, you know, what have you found in that realm of things as well?
Well, two things, think brand, first of all, establishing your brand, like what is your
identity?
What do you really want to be known for?
So important.
And I do think that working with a professional who can help help you pull that out and
really identify that making sure that you have, know, a bit of a brand guide, especially
if you're going to be doing social media, which in this day and age, I think you have to
be doing that.
You have to have a social media presence and you have to be able to
share some of your expertise in a way that is free of charge in order to get people to
take notice because there's so much information overload coming at everybody.
So how are you going to stand out if you can't do that?
So I think brand is super, super important.
The other thing I think is really knowing who your audience is.
You know, it's, and I made this mistake, even though, you know,
Years ago, I actually worked in kind of the advertising marketing aspect.
I forgot this really important thing because when I first started, it was like, well, I
can work with executives or middle management and people who are rising leaders and, and,
and, and, and it's, was so much, I had no targeted messaging.
And then I had this like aha moment and I stepped back and I'm like, okay, but really who
is my truly ideal client?
And then being able, and it's just like, it's, it's no different than doing product
development.
right, because this is now a product.
And that's kind that was my aha moment, because I've guided a lot of people in product
development and I'm like, wait a second, we're not trying to boil the ocean here.
So being able to step back and say, you know, who really is my ideal client?
And then create a persona for that ideal client.
What are the problems that they are trying to solve?
What are the challenges they are facing on a daily basis?
How do they need to be communicated to?
What do they want to hear?
What do they need to hear?
And then really starting to zone in my own marketing that way in the blogs that I write,
in the podcasts that I do, and everything about that because I just think it's so
important to make sure that the right people are hearing your message, not just everybody.
You know what one quote that comes to my mind is when you try to speak to everyone you
speak to no one right because your messaging is just so wide and You're just not gonna
resonate with anyone then because you're trying to spread the message so thin and so it's
so true and I think that's one of the biggest things new businesses You know get into is
well, let's just try sell to everyone and see see what happens But ultimately see what
sticks right?
That's what everyone says but ultimately nothing will stick if you do go and adopt that
side of it because your messaging will just be off and so if you can nail
on point.
Yeah, if you can nail that, then the rest of it will fall into place.
Even things like, you know, the sales aspects, as we mentioned before, is when you're
trying to sell to everyone, again, you're not going to resonate with people on those calls
because your messaging is just so wide and varied.
But when you become hyper-focused and, you know, let's just help this segment of the
market.
When it comes to the sales, you can really provide them a lot of value and actually
resonate with them because you're speaking their language.
It goes to what we said before, right?
Is you need to be speaking the same people at
the same language as everyone else that you want to get through the business, let's say.
And so you need to make sure you resonate with them through the language you're using,
which only comes from niching down and actually speaking to that specific segment of the
market.
Yeah, and I love that quote because actually it's it's the sister quote to that right is
one that I've used so many times with so many leaders who when I would say what is your
what is your top priority or your even your top three priorities and they say no it's all
priority and every single time I would say if everything is your priority nothing is going
to be accomplished right you're to have bits and pieces of everything done but you're not
going to have an actual outcome you're not going to have anything actually accomplished
So I love your quote because you're right.
It is if you're trying to speak to everybody, you're really speaking to no one.
And going back to the strategy aspect, you mentioned, you know, when you, strategy is
essentially when you have unlimited options of things you can be doing, but you're now
down on the top priorities and that's your strategy, right?
And so, you know, bringing it full circle to back what we were speaking with at the
beginning is you need to highlight these core tasks first, and then you can work through
those.
How do you see the future of, you know, change management and things like that progressing
over time?
Because now,
as you know, new tools coming into the market, new software, AI, whatever it is, but how
do you foresee maybe the future of change management with the industries that you work in?
So I don't think so the need for change management is just growing, right?
It's not going away.
The days of a company being able to just push out of change and expecting it to stick are
gone.
You know have to be able to pull people in and I think that whether it's it's
generational, whether it's you know because of so much extra information out there because
there's so many additional opportunities, people just aren't going to stick around if
you're just pushing change at them constantly.
Yeah.
So I think that the what I hope I don't know that this is gonna happen what I hope is that
the human aspect the relationship as you were talking about earlier the relationship
aspect of Change will come back into play stronger and stronger and stronger Because it's
it's not until you can actually have those conversations with all of your stakeholders
with you can help them See what's in it for them?
You know, we're doing away with this role.
We're creating this role.
crap, I no longer have a job, you know, or they no longer have the identity that they've
had for maybe 20 years.
So helping them see their place in something new through a relationship, through care,
through authenticity, through transparency.
I think all of that is so important.
You know, I think that AI will play a role in a lot of this.
And
It can be a good role or it can be a bad role depending on how a company decides to move
forward and use it.
I think that the advantage for me of AI is it can take all of this information that's out
there about maybe transformations other companies have done or other strategies people
have done.
And it can so quickly compile it and say, here are the top four things you should be
considering.
Or maybe it's the top four risks you should watch out for.
And when you read them, seem like, well, duh, type of things.
But when we're not focused on those, we don't have those moments of, know, well, duh.
We miss them until it hits us in the face.
So being able to leverage AI for things like that even, I think can be really powerful
because it can give you a bit of an accelerator, right, on getting someplace a little bit
faster when you can really zone in on that information and use it for good.
Yeah, do you know the common theme that seems to be when I'm having these conversations
with people is relationships in general, is I feel like relationships is making a comeback
because as I mentioned the last few years as tech has gotten better, you know, people
maybe working remotely and all these different things is the relationship aspect is
starting to break down or has broken down.
And so what I'm seeing across different, not even just industries, but just departments in
general is bringing back
the relationship aspect of whatever it is that they're doing, whether it's marketing,
sales, know, just internal communication or whatever that looks like is bringing it back
to relationships because ultimately relationship is what kind of drive the company.
And as you mentioned with AI is that, know, my opinion on AI right now is that it's such a
great tool to use, but there's companies that starting to just solely use AI, you know,
rather than actually speaking to people, right?
you have to still go through the motions of speaking to people and understanding them and
build those relationships.
And you can use it, as you mentioned, to really increase the work capacity, I guess,
right?
The speed of getting work done.
But ultimately, it brings it back down to the relationships aspect is focus on those
relationships because it's so, so important.
It really is.
you know, it's, I've heard people say, I don't have time to get to know my team.
And my comeback to that is, well, you know, how many hours a month do think you would
need?
And they'll usually have a number that they'll tell me and I'll say, okay, well, why don't
we start looking at some of the processes you have in place and places where maybe you
could delegate a little bit more or entrust other people a little bit more to free up some
of that time for you.
Mm.
we do have to have the relationships.
And I think it's about putting in the effort.
We've forgotten how to put in the effort.
I ran an entire remote organization and it was one of my strongest organizations with some
of the most beautiful relationships because we actually prioritized that.
We took the time for that.
And it didn't mean that we derailed every meeting.
Right, but I encourage all of my people to a couple like twice a week, have a coffee hour
with somebody or with two or three people where we're not talking about work where you're
actually getting to know each other.
You know, we would talk about what's your favorite movie that you saw in the last couple
months or you know what they were doing with their kids on Saturday, having that just
understanding that we're people first who come to work.
And yes, we don't want people to bring all their problems to work and other drama to work.
But I still want them to bring their whole self to work.
And I still want people, I still want people to appreciate like who Akhil is when he's not
doing a podcast, right?
Because there's this whole human that is you and that's what that's you're bringing all of
that into your podcast.
So you can't just like leave that at the door.
Relationships, man.
Yeah.
They're, they're important.
about remote working, what you just mentioned, because I've been in companies before where
it's fully remote and everything.
And there's only that, right?
It was just, you log in at whatever time, do your work, jump on a few Zoom calls, right?
Going through some problems and meetings and stuff, then you log off and you're done.
But there was no relationship building throughout that process, right?
It was just, know, attacking fires that going on or whatever it was.
But just having and setting aside that time.
just to meet with people and talk to people, right, is so important.
So that's a really great tip for people with a remote team.
crucial.
And you one of the most beautiful things, I still am in touch with a lot of people from
this particular organization.
And what I love, even though I would say 75 % are no longer with that company, they've
gone on to different jobs, different companies, different roles.
They still have these, they still call each other.
They're, you know, they're like Facebook friends and they're like supporting each other on
LinkedIn and
I'll have a chat with one of them and they'll say, I talked to this person and this person
just last week because they had real authentic relationships.
And we got a lot done because of those relationships.
A lot done.
Yeah.
such an important element of it.
So one of the final questions that I always ask people on this episode, on this podcast
even, is if you can go back to your 18 year old self and you can only take three lessons
with you from things that you've discovered over the years, what would those three lessons
be and why would it be those things?
wow.
You're the first person to ever ask me this question.
Not everybody's gonna like you along the way and that's okay.
Like stay true to who you are and your don't listen to when other people tell you know you
need to shift and become this and this and this.
Like be authentic in who you are.
Be true to yourself.
That'd be the first thing.
The other thing I think I would tell myself.
is don't get married to an idea of what you think life is going to look like.
Be willing to enjoy the ride because there's going to be shifts.
I never thought I was going to be doing this.
Right.
I thought I was going to go to med school and be a doctor.
and I beat myself up a bit when I didn't, right.
I had some regret about that.
but man, but where I am, I've done some really cool things and been able to partner with a
lot of amazing people that I never would have otherwise met.
So that's, and I guess the third thing would be just always give yourself grace.
You're not gonna be perfect.
it's actually, I am gonna, let me, I'm gonna add to that.
Give yourself grace when you fail.
because I kind of grew up with a fear of failure.
Yeah.
And if I could change one thing, it would be to go back and instead every day at the end
of the day, I would question myself about how I failed and then I would celebrate the crap
out
because every one of those failure moments was a growth moment.
Hmm.
Right, was this opportunity to learn through repeated experimentation.
So, yeah.
when you look back, right, and you've gone through all these failures, these challenges,
and in the time, in the moment, it's like, you know, everything seems to be falling apart.
But when you look back, you can connect the dots of how you got to this point that at
right now, right?
You went through these lessons, failed at this bit, then went to this bit, and then now,
you know, now we're here.
But looking back, you can connect the dots.
But in the moment, it's hard to see how the dots are going to connect.
And so I think that's one of those challenges, right?
And so I agree with that piece of advice for, you know, just, you know, younger people in
general.
all people in general, to be honest with you, is give yourself that grace when you do fail
because ultimately it's just the path that you're on and eventually you'll be able to
connect the dots but it is hard in the moment.
I years ago, I decided that I was going to define failure as a forward attempt in learning
under repeated experimentation.
I love that.
day is an experiment.
Every single day is an experiment.
I run the experiment and either I succeed or I learn something.
Yeah.
Okay, amazing.
Well, look, thank you so much for joining me on this episode.
I've loved speaking with you on this.
I've really enjoyed this.
So thank you very much.
Of course, it's been a pleasure.
It's been pleasure.