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When life gets hard, does what we think we believe hold us up, or does it crumble under the weight of doubt? I'm your host, Dr. Lee Warren- I'm a brain surgeon, author, and a person who's seen some stuff and wondered where God is in all this mess. This is The Spiritual Brain Surgery podcast, where we'll take a hard look at what we believe, why we believe it, and the neuroscience behind how our minds and our brains can smash together with faith to help us become healthier, feel better, and be happier so we can find the hope to withstand anything life throws at us. You've got questions, and we're going to do the hard work to find the answers, but you can't change your life until you change your mind, and it's gonna take some spiritual-brain surgery to get it done. So let's get after it.
Music.
My friend. I hope you're doing well. Dr. Lee Warren here with you.
It's Spiritual Brain Surgery and it's Tuesday, but it's not Tuesdays with Tata.
We've got two special guests with us today, Bob and Linda Lodich.
Bob is the author of the book, Simple Money, Rich Life, Achieve True Financial
Freedom and Design a Life of Internal Impact.
Bob has written a book about their incredible journey from being significantly
in debt and following God's lead to find a way to manage their finances in a
different way that has led to a career of Bob and Linda now coaching people around the world.
And their website, Seedtime, S-E-E-D-T-I-M-E dot com, Seedtime dot com,
is the website where they teach
people all around the world how to be good stewards of their finances.
There's a lot to learn here from Bob and Linda, and it's not really about money.
So if you don't have any financial issues or if you've given up hope of ever
having having your finances straightened out, this episode will be helpful to you.
And the general idea is follow God at his word, take him seriously.
And when he lays out a principle, if you follow that principle with your life,
you'll find yourself generally having more success in making your life be the
way it was designed to be.
So I want to make sure you understand this episode's not about some sort of
formula whereby you can attain wealth.
That's not Bob and Linda's story at all. The story is that Bob was broken down
and stranded a thousand miles from home with $7 left in his bank account.
He reached a breaking point. He was stuck in a dead-end job.
He was living paycheck to paycheck, overwhelmed with debt, and he'd been following
the world's advice with money.
And that was what happened. He found himself in a big hole and didn't know what
to do. He was desperate. So he cried out to God for wisdom.
And the way God answered his prayer was quite surprising. And their story is
remarkable. remarkable.
And it's just a great example of what happens when you press in and say,
God, I take you at your word.
I want to follow you. I want to apply your principles to my life and see what happens.
Their story is unique. It's very different. Bob's approach to money and managing
money and teaching people how to manage money in a godly way is very unique.
I love the book, Simple Money Rich Life.
You're going to learn a lot from Bob and Linda Lodich. So let's get after it.
Music.
We're back, and I'm so excited to be having another conversation with my friends
Bob and Linda Lodich. Welcome to the show, guys.
Thanks for having us. Yeah, we're excited to be here. I'm happy because I was
on your show a few months ago, and we've tried several times to get this done
and close this loop to have you on mine.
And it finally happened. Today's the day. So March the 1st, welcome to the show.
We're doing it. We're going to talk about money. We're going to talk about finances.
We're going to talk about how to crawl back up from a difficult place.
And you guys have a unique story that I think will be really encouraging to people.
And we'll get after it in just a minute. But before we start,
would you pray for us? Sure.
Yeah, God, I just invite you into this conversation. And I pray that you would
direct us as we communicate.
And I pray you'd be glorified in everything that we're saying.
I pray that anyone listening would be encouraged and equipped and leave with
something life-changing out of this conversation that we're having today. day.
And we just give you all the glory and praise for it in Jesus name. Amen. Amen.
Bob, your story really is for the last 15 years or so, you guys have been working
and helping people with finance and giving and reordering their minds really
around personal finance and how we're faithful to God in our finances.
But you started in a pretty unique place.
So why don't you give us a 30,000 foot view of where you got this seed time
concept and how you really do what you do now. Tell us your story.
Yeah, so, you know, we didn't grow up with a silver spoon.
We were very much average, middle class, you know, Missourians.
And anyway, long story short, I had a financial turning point,
you know, which for a lot of us, it's out of desperation.
And for me, that was the case for sure. Like I grew up loving money and thinking
I was really smart and good at it. I worked at a bank, all my friends,
you know, came to me for money advice and I work at a bank.
So of course you should listen to me type of thing.
And, uh, anyway, two days before one day, I guess it was before my 21st birthday.
Um, I was living in a Florida beach town and I was driving down the road.
Uh, sun is out at 75 degrees. It's just perfect day. I had just gotten paid cause it was Friday.
Um, and I'm driving a convertible. It's like, everything's going going great.
And all of a sudden, as I'm driving, my car breaks down and like breaks down
so fast, I can't even get to the side of the road. And so I'm.
Sitting there in the car like trying to figure out what
to do i don't know much about cars and all these cars are driving by
everybody's staring you know looking at my misfortune and whatever
and it's just a broken down car so it's not that big of a deal most of us have
been through that but as i was sitting there i began to realize wait a minute
this is going to be a big problem like all of the everything started unraveling
as i started realizing what's going to happen or what could happen the next
day or so yeah and the reason i was driving is because i just gotten hadn't paid, got my paycheck.
I was taking that to the bank to cash it so I can go pay my landlord because
the rent was due that day in about four hours.
And as I was doing this, I'm like, wait a minute, how am I going to make all this stuff work?
How am I going to get this car towed, fixed, and then get it back to do this and this?
And the reason I had to do all this today is because if I didn't get it done,
they were going to tack on a $50 late fee.
And the problem was my paycheck was so small, it was just enough to cover my rent payment.
And so I'm like, I don't have anywhere to come up with that $50.
I had $7 in my checking account.
I had one credit card that was nearly maxed out, about $200 from being maxed out.
So I'm literally praying to God, can you help me get this car repaired for less
than $200 of my available credit on my credit card and then get here to cash
this check and then pay my landlord?
And like, I'm not even thinking about like a week from now. Most people with
common sense are like, it doesn't even matter if you solve today.
Like, what are you going to do next week? But I'm not even there.
So it was that moment for me where.
My life was a financial house of cards, if you will. And it just because of
a little alternator going out, like everything came crumbling down in that moment.
And I remember being in that car and like feeling the weight of that.
And more than that, like the guilt, the shame, the I have no idea what I'm doing,
the humbling that was taking place as I was realizing that I'm not as good with
money as I have thought. lot.
You know, and out of all of that, I remember gripping that steering wheel with everything I had.
Tears are coming down my eyes and I'm like, God, I need help.
Like, I don't know how I got here. I don't know how to get out of here, but you're God.
And if you have a plan, like I want to hear it. I'm all ears.
You know, I wasn't ready, but now I am ready to listen. And that was kind of
the starting point of everything for us.
We weren't married yet. This was a couple couple of years before we met each other.
Um, but I mean, you had a similar just journey, right?
Yeah. In terms of. So where Bob was at is he had a lot more knowledge in the financial space.
I had zero and zero interest really, but I was, uh, watching my life kind of
crumble where I was working at a full-time job, living at my parents' house
where, I mean, they were buying my toothpaste paste for me.
You know, I had two bills, which I think was a cell phone bill in a car.
And I had a bill collector calling me because I was not paying my credit card bills on time.
And so I just had this moment where, you know, this bill collector calls my
cell phone, but then he also called my parents landline and my mom answered
the phone. So she confronts me with this.
And, you know, I did the teenage thing of like, it's fine, mom,
I've got it all under control. And I did not have have it under control.
Like I had no idea what was going on.
But there was, yeah, there was that same desperation of like,
Lord, this doesn't feel right, but I don't know how to do it any other way. So I need you to help me.
And I had that same thing of feeling so embarrassed that I didn't really even know how to ask for help.
I felt like I should know better, but I didn't.
And I wasn't really sure where to go from there.
So, you know, this is all happening to us separately. And then And we decide
we're going to get married and see what happens.
Let's hope this works out. Wow. So so you had this like separately,
some encounters around money that produced some brokenness and almost sort of shame.
Like, why is money why does money produce these feelings of of.
I don't know, embarrassment or shame? Why are we so quiet and personal about
our financial issues? Why does that seem to be so universal?
I don't know, but it certainly does.
And I think, I don't think it helps that, yeah, societally, at least in the
West, it feels like we shouldn't really talk about this.
It doesn't help that we aren't taught nearly enough about it in schools.
There's a little bit of financial education happening, But it's dated and it's
a lot of, oh, here's how you fill out a check.
It's like, you know, it's like anyway, so there's not enough in the right financial
education happening there.
And on top of that, I talk to people all the time, Lee, who say my dad said
we just don't talk about money in our house.
And it's like, oh, so what do you do? How are you going to learn?
Like, you know, it's like and I think a lot of parents say that we're not going
to talk about it because I don't know what to do.
Like, we're still trying to figure out how we're going to teach you.
But it's like, still, like, so the point is you can see the vicious cycle here that we have going on.
And so I think that's a big part of it because we kind of feel like we should
know what to do, but so many of us don't.
And I think that breeds a lot of the shame.
But, I mean, one of the things that, you know, we say all the time is like,
Jesus, you know, the Bible isn't shy about talking about money.
Yeah. Talk about money all the time. Yep.
You know, and so we shouldn't be either. either
like we should be okay having some of these conversations these
honest conversations to to figure out how to do the stuff
right you know yeah it really resonated with me
when you said that about our education like because for i'm a
good example so i you know drawn to science go to college get a degree in biochemistry
i've got hundreds of hours of analytical and physical chemistry and physics
and calculus and all these things and i go to medical school and spend four
four years in med school, and then go to residency and spend six years there.
I graduate, I'm 32 years old, and I get into private practice.
And I'm running, my wife and I, running a $10 million a year business.
And have no idea how to manage money. I mean, zero. No education.
I'm running a business that's generating millions of dollars,
and I have no idea what to do with it.
And everybody I know in medicine is the same way. Doctors are the,
you probably know by now, like the worst people to give multimillion dollar
businesses to because we don't know that there's a difference between income
and wealth, and it's a disaster.
So with all that said, like, tell us the rest of the story. Like, what happens next?
Yeah. So we get married and I'm, you know, one step ahead of her,
not far, just one tiny little step ahead of her, you know, because I'm reading
books, I'm trying to learn.
It was about this point that I discovered, wow, the Bible actually talks about
money, which I found to be so fascinating.
And so I'm reading every book I can get my hands on with money management and things like that.
But then at the same time, I'm reading what the Bible says, because I'm like,
I want to to see what that says about it and kind of combining these.
And out of that, I ended up starting a blog in 2007,
where I was just kind of sharing my thoughts on really what I was discovering,
you know, because I was on a journey myself, but what I was discovering that
the Bible said, how that intersected with some practical advice over here and all this stuff.
And anyway, and that was kind of where the whole thing began in terms of us
sharing what we've learned, into what God has brought us through with the world.
And then from there, it's just, you know, evolved and grown into courses and
books and podcasts and everything else.
But that's kind of where everything started with everything we're doing. So direct me from there.
So I think that the first thing is your story about giving.
Like, so your story is not just about earning and it's not just about saving
and managing and budgeting and all that boring stuff.
I'm putting air quotes around that if you're just listening to the audio.
But our parents always tell us, you got to have a budget, you got to save and
all that. And it's kind of boring.
Your story takes a big turn here because it's it's not just that.
But all of a sudden, you're like feeling a directive from God to give a huge
percentage of your money away while you're in debt.
So a lot of people would say, wait, I've got debt. God surely wants me to get
out of debt before I start giving. Like, unpack that for me a little bit.
Yeah. Well, I mean, one of the things that comes to mind for me is that when
we were dating, we both realized that each other had this strong desire in our
hearts to want to give significantly.
And so, you know, maybe that resonates with anyone listening.
Maybe it doesn't. And that doesn't actually matter.
I think the point of it was, is that we felt a unified sense of purpose through it.
And that really propelled us forward so that even though we were in this like
disastrous mess and we started asking God for help, the goal of us getting out of that mess. Yes.
Maybe at first there was some selfish desire there of like, I just don't want
to be like, you know, not able to buy groceries this week.
There was surely some of that.
But in addition to that, and then what kept us going was that sense of purpose
that we felt like God has something for us to do beyond take care of our own selves.
You know what I mean? So for some people that is is having a medical practice
where you're able to help all these people and also,
you know, talk to them about God or minister to them about God,
whether it's through directly talking about it or just being the light of the
world, you know, or maybe it is, you know, we've started this business that was one for us.
Maybe it is giving on a significant level. It doesn't really matter what that
purpose is, but just using that to kind of propel you forward,
don't you think? Yeah, no, absolutely.
Yeah, I'm trying to think what else I want to add there. But as far as the debt
giving component, yeah.
And everything we're talking about here from saving to giving to budgeting to investing,
like all of these pieces, I think when you do this God's way,
there's a holistic synergy that kind of happens with all of them.
And I on,
missing out on a really big component. And so for us, giving was one of those
things that God took a season and really stretched us.
And one of those times is when we're paying off debt.
And we've seen this happen multiple times where we will start down a path of
paying off a big or specific debt, and he will encourage us to give more.
Not only, because I've talked to people too who are like, well,
I'm going to stop giving so I can pay off my debt.
And it's like, we're not at all saying there's anything wrong with paying off
debt. We're completely debt-free at this point, and that's what we want for everybody.
But the point is the way we got there faster was actually by giving more.
And we've seen that over and over again, like with so many of our students as
well, like this is just a recurring thing where, and it's not like this is the
rule or this is a law because I believe God has different things for each one of us.
And I don't think that is the case for everybody, but we've just seen it enough
that there's something to it.
You know what I mean? So it's a question worth asking. It's a thing worth praying
about if you are trying to pay off debt, you know?
Well, is it Malachi where he says, like, bring the whole tithe into the storehouse?
Like, you can't out-give me. Like, you start giving back to me,
and I'm going to give you more.
That's not a magic trick. I mean, it's a biblical promise that God says,
if you're faithful with your giving, I'll give you more than you can give me, right?
Yeah. Yeah, and we've seen that so much. Yeah.
I mean, there's been specific times that we can call out of where,
you know, for example, the first time when we were trying to get out of debt
and honestly just trying to survive.
I mean, we had very little income and we were trying to do the best we could with it.
And we realized that our tithe amount was wrong and we were trying to be faithful in that area.
And so Bob says, well, he's like, I don't know what to do here because if we
start tithing the correct amount, we're not going to be able to buy groceries
next week or pay for gas to get to our job.
So we've got a decision to make here.
And we both felt that beautiful Holy Spirit conviction that does not come across
like a finger pointing, but an invitation to trust.
You know, and so we were like, you know, I think we're supposed to do this.
Let's just do it. And then let's work the other stuff out later.
So we made the decision. And the very next day, Bob walked into work.
And received a out-of-the-blue, just-for-Bob, no-one-else raise.
No, I walked into my boss's office and she said, hey, close the door. This is between us.
We're not giving out raises to anyone else, but we're going to give you a raise.
It's literally like 12 hours after we decided, okay, we're going to increase
our giving to match this.
So, again, Lee, we've seen those things happen so many times.
So many times. And again, like I have the unique advantage to,
you know, we've had thousands of students where I get a peek into their financial
lives and like we've seen this with them over and over again.
So it's like God is he's faithful and he's worth trusting, you know.
So that's that's remarkable that so specifically in your story,
you haven't said it here yet, but I want you to say it for the for the listener
who hasn't read your book.
And by the way, Simple Money, Rich Life, fantastic book, really helpful and
very practical, but also kind of miraculous.
So you make this decision that you're going to give a percentage of your age
when you were, what, 31? Is that right? Yeah. So you're 31.
You give the percentage of your age, and you think, how am I ever going to get
my mortgage paid off if I do this? What happened?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so we had been through some of the other little tests because
God keeps moving you forward further down the line and increases the size of
the test that he's thrown in front of you.
And so this was the big one. Long story short.
We paid off all of our other debt and we were trying, we're in a race to pay off our mortgage.
And that, you know, looking back had become a little bit of an idol for me where
above all else, I just wanted to get our mortgage paid off.
And I had my spreadsheet and it was going to take three and a half years.
And like, you know, I got all this figured out.
And the reason it was going to go fast, again, we paid off all of their debt.
And so we had many thousands of dollars a month we were dumping towards our
mortgage. And so, yes, I'm praying about this thing, asking God like a microwave
Christianity, like, hey, I want to get my mortgage paid off faster. Can you help me?
You know, and in that moment, you know, I really sense the Lord speak to me
in my heart in a way I've never heard before or since, to be honest with you.
If you really want to see me move on your finances, I want you to begin giving
your age as a percentage of your income. And so at that point,
I was giving a lot. We were given probably 11%, I would guess.
And God's basically saying, I want you to jump into 31%. And so anyway,
so there was a lot of like wrestling and like, just what the heck?
Where is this coming from? Like, this is just nuts.
Can we even do this? Like, again, and back to this position of I don't know
if we're gonna be able to buy groceries if we do this.
Like, you know, and so I'm running numbers and trying to figure this out.
But the bottom line was, this throws a major wrench in my house payoff plan,
because now my spreadsheet is all jacked up.
It goes from three and a half years to probably 10 years now because we're giving all our money away.
And so we talked about it. And again, it felt like it wasn't a,
you better do this or I'm going to get you from God.
It was like this gentle invitation. invitation.
It felt like what I would imagine Jesus talking to Peter on the boat and saying,
hey, I got something really cool if you want to take a step and see what happens.
And so it felt like that. And anyway, so we prayed about it a little bit and
then we decided, all right, let's just go for this thing.
And the craziest thing, Lee, it was we started 10 months later,
not 10 years, but 10 months later, our mortgage was paid off.
Like it made no sense, like at all in the natural, but we watched as God just
did thing after thing, like money was coming in from random sources.
Our business began taking off in a way it had never done before.
Like one thing after another, after another, this huge tax refund came, like all this stuff.
And then we just started kept piling it back as we were giving our 30% kept
piling all the extra back on the mortgage and less than a year it was paid off. Wow.
That's amazing. It kind of hits me in two different ways.
One is God obviously clearly doesn't do this for everybody.
So if you're listening and you're struggling financially and you're like,
hey, this is great for y'all, but my life just hasn't worked out that way.
We'll get to talk about that in a moment.
But I think sometimes God does a specific thing for a specific person because
of the work he's calling them to. Right. Sure.
So I think maybe talk about calling and purpose and how you all this faithfulness
in the area of finances has produced the work that you do in the way that that's
changed other people's lives.
Yeah, no, I think you're spot on. Like, I have no doubt that a lot of the challenges,
as well as some of these miracles that God has brought us through,
are for the purpose of us sharing and giving glory to Him.
And I think a lot of it is, yeah, because, you know, I'm the first one to say,
like, I don't think everyone should be given their age. age.
But I do think that I have experienced, I've been inspired by hearing other
people's testimonies of what God has done in their lives, financial or otherwise.
And I've had that happen to me enough where I'll hear something someone else
is doing because God led them to do that, and it will spark an idea in me.
And I feel like a lot of times God will use that, use that inspiration.
And so that's my prayer, is that as we share what God's done in our financial lives,
I've shared the miracles as well as the challenges and like how we've overcome
them and all these different things that, that anyone listening would be able
to take something from that and not to necessarily copy the exact thing and
copy the formula, if you will,
but, but to listen and to follow what God has for them, because that's the thing.
Like he is the one who is doing the heavy lifting.
He's the one who's doing the work. He's the one who's making the miracles happen.
But what I think a lot of us need encouragement with a lot of times is just to follow.
And even Even when it's scary, even when it doesn't make sense,
but to trust in him in the midst of that, you know?
That's very well said. And
I think maybe we need to put a little disclaimer here because I've read you
and talked to you enough to know that you're not preaching some kind of prosperity
sort of lottery slot machine kind of gospel where if you say the right things
or do the right things, God's obligated to give you money.
So don't hear us saying that, friend, listening out there.
Maybe just address that for a second. And like the difference between financial
faithfulness and God's faithfulness and this sort of prosperity idea,
this manifestation idea that that's not what you're talking about.
Right. Well, I mean, there's also the thing, there is a law of sowing and reaping.
Like just because it's been manipulated by humans doesn't mean that God didn't
create it and that we can't, you know, tap into it. Like he has created other laws that we live by.
And for some reason, this one has been so manipulated.
And I think that's because there's so much power in it. Like it's not something
for that, that we can twist God's arm to ever do anything like it's,
it's funny that we would even think that that would be possible. Right.
So, so that's one aspect of it.
But the other thing that I don't like about, honestly, there's two sides of
that coin. There's the, oh, I'm going to name it and claim it.
And then there's the other side of, well, if I seek to earn more money or get
more money, then that makes me fill in the blank.
Like, you know, almost wanting to be poor for the sake of the gospel.
And I don't really see that addressing the core issue of our heart and where
our heart falls into that equation. And so, I mean, I don't think God prefers one or the other.
I think he's always looking at, are you still trusting me even if things look
good or even if they look bad?
Are you still trusting me and can you still follow what I am asking you to do,
whether you have a lot or a little?
And if we are answering no to that, then it doesn't matter. Like,
neither side makes us righteous.
Like having a lot or having little. little.
That's not what makes us righteous. We're righteous because of the work of Jesus.
And so, if these external forces can't be the thing that makes us righteous,
then what we need to seek to do is get our hearts in the right place so that
when we go to the Lord and we have whatever issues we do, whether that is a
lot or a little, because there are issues either way,
then He can lead us and guide us on how to deal with those things. Pete.
I think that's exactly right. And I think that the idea, listener,
you know, wherever you are and whatever your life experience is,
the idea that faithfulness in your place in which God has set you and in the
work that God has put before you produces rewards for you out of faithfulness
and He's faithful back to you.
I can show it in medicine. I can see places where my willingness to show up
and take care of somebody when I didn't feel like it, my willingness to listen
to those nudges, like do this operation.
I'm like, I don't want to do that operation. God rewards sometimes people through
my hands in miraculous ways that I didn't expect because I listened and I followed and I obeyed.
And so I think what you're saying is that faithfulness in your finances and
faithfulness in your occupation and faithfulness in your life in general produces
reward from God in different ways.
And sometimes that's financial in your case and in everybody's case when you
follow biblical principles. Like you said, Linda, that was a good point.
Like God has some laws that he follows and doesn't break his own principles
when we operate according to his word. Yeah.
Well, and I love what you just pulled out about not wanting to do an operation at a certain time.
And it's interesting, given all that you have walked through,
there's had to be some days where you're like, I want to give up.
I don't want to do this any longer. But the things that happen on this earth
are temporary in the fact that it's our discomfort that we're trying to appease
and we're trying to seek the comforter of our own selves.
And when we step out, and this goes for finances as well as any other gift that
we have worth giving, right?
So for you, you're a brilliant surgeon, right? Right.
So any of those gifts that we have to give when we actually when the Lord says,
I want you to do this with what you have to give and you we don't want to do it.
When we lay that down, that is our obedience to him because it's not about our own comfort.
When we are following God, we're saying, I'm laying down what I want to do,
and I'm giving you the opportunity to use my life and be what it wants to be.
And I think in some of those instances, I've been more blessed because I obeyed.
Like, I thought it was about the other person.
I'm sure it is in some cases, but it's like God doesn't forget about me in those same situations.
He's like, I have something here for you, too. Please don't miss it, you know?
That's exactly right. I think it goes back to that widow's mite story, right?
Like he's saying, like, good for you. You gave 10%. She gave everything.
Like she gave all she had, and I'm going to bless her because of that.
So, I mean, let's make sure we don't leave anybody out here,
though. You know, there's somebody listening.
I'll get an email. I guarantee it, when this episode goes up,
I'm going to get an email from somebody who says, oh, good for you,
you all have all this money, and good for you.
But my husband left me, and I've been broke for 30 years, and I don't know where
my next cell phone payment is going to come from or if I'm going to get to keep
my house. Where does that person start?
When we have a lifetime of brokenness around finance or lack of seeing God do
these things in our lives, and we're faithful, and we go to church,
and we pray, and we do all the things that we think we're supposed to do.
Like what's some words for that person who hasn't seen this type of favor,
if you will? Like where do you start?
Yeah. Well, I think the thing that I would say is that we've had many years,
because again, like we're sharing some of the highlight reel,
but it's like we've had many,
many years of not that.
And so that was a big peak. And then we had a valley a couple of years after that.
You know, we've watched our business, you know, our business revenues drop by
90% in one season, you know, to the point where we thought we were going to lose the business.
And, you know, so we've just, we've had a roller coaster of ups and downs.
And again, this is just our story. But my point, I guess, in bringing that up
and saying that is that everyone's story is different and unique.
And like, we don't have the answers, of course. But at the end of the day,
like I believe, and I've tried to cling to this even in our more challenging
moments, that God is good in the midst of all of it.
And at the end of the day, like we are eternal beings who just happen to be
in this earth for a sliver of time.
And, you know, just like a parable of the talents, like God is entrusting some
things to us, you know. And so this is our children.
This is our actual gifts he's put in our lives. but also I believe our money
and we have the opportunity to steward them and manage them to the best of our ability.
But we're not judged based on what the end result is, but we are judged based
on what we did with what we were entrusted with.
And I just want to be a person who regardless of what my current circumstances
are and regardless of how long they've been challenging or whatever else,
I just want to keep trying to do the best with what I can do while continuing
to trust and and know that God is good in the midst of all of it. Uh.
I don't know. I could think that would be what I would say. Would you add anything to that?
Yeah, I remember having a conversation with someone recently who said,
I just feel like I'm spinning my wheels.
Yeah. And it dawned on me in that conversation that God doesn't actually call
us to earth to be a person who spins our wheels.
And so in the midst of that, I can look back on seasons in my own life where
I have had that same feeling of like, I feel like I'm spinning my wheels.
I don't feel like I'm going anywhere. It feels like it's going to be like this forever.
That when I look back on those seasons, I can see that God was working.
I can see that there was something there.
And it's most of the time in my own self.
It's most of the time not an external circumstance. It's usually I have a belief
about something that does not line up with what is in His Word.
It's usually something like that.
And I hope that that doesn't sound like an accusation at all.
It can a lot of times be something like, I don't feel like I am qualified to fill in the blank.
It can be a negative belief that we have about any issue of life that he just,
again, it's not a finger pointing thing.
It's just this lie that he wants to tear away from our lives so that we can
move forward in a new direction.
And, you know, like you said, that doesn't always mean that we're going to have
a billion dollars dropped in our lap, you know, the next day.
Usually it is just a tweak in our belief system that leads us into a new direction of purpose.
At least that's been the case for me. Well, I think that's what you just said,
I think is exactly the heart of the matter here.
And however you're listening, Bob mentioned the talents a second ago.
My friend Susie Larson, the radio host, I think you've probably been on her show.
Susie always talks about the three T's, the time, treasure and talent.
Like so it's not just money.
It's the gifts that God's given you. It's the.
Treasures of your heart, like the things that you value, are you willing to
give some of those up to God, your time, your energy, your purpose?
Are you willing to lay down an occupation if he's calling you to something different?
It's not just money, but it is money. So sometimes we gloss over that.
When we hear the parable of the talents, back in Jesus' day,
when he's telling that story, talent meant money.
It's an amount of money.
So we gloss over that. But we all are supposed to be faithful with our finances.
So talk for a second about some of the principles of how we can be more faithful with our finances.
You give us things like the never 100 rule, like no matter how much money you
make, you should follow this particular principle and it will lead you to a
more successful life around finance.
So give us some of those little bits of wisdom from your life and your book. Sure.
Yeah. I mean, well, you mentioned the never 100 rule. That was is essentially,
anybody who has read any personal finance magazine article, anything else has
heard this idea of you need to spend less than you earn.
So it's the most common sense personal finance advice, but it is the most universally
important and beneficial and whatever else.
Because if you violate this one rule, you can never go forward.
This is why you have Mike Tyson who earned over over $400 million over the course
of his career, but then found himself with negative $23 million of debt.
Like completely bankrupt and negative 23. Like most of us are like,
how could you ever spend that much?
And not only that, but then overshoot by $23 million.
But the point is, if you spend more than you earn, that's what happens.
So it doesn't matter if it's that level of income or if it's $50,000 a year,
like the principle still remains.
Anyway, out of this, we created this rule that we call the never 100 rule,
you know, which is just a modification of that.
For us specifically, we just said we are never to the absolute best of our ability
going to spend more than 100% of our income in a given month.
So whatever we earn in a particular month, whether that's $10,000,
$1,000 or $100, we are not going to spend it all, you know, and it's easy.
Like, let's say you have a terrible month and it's whatever,
$1,000 and you normally live off of $3,000 or $5,000 or whatever. it doesn't matter.
But the point is, if it's a really, really low month, there's a temptation to.
Well, I have to spend this all, you know, and I'm not going to give some,
I'm not going to save some or whatever else.
And the problem with that is that it's not going to solve the problem anyway.
Like you have a big problem anyway, if you have this really low month.
So you might as well give some and save some anyway.
And that's kind of been the logic that has driven what we've done.
And as kingdom-minded believers, everything starts with giving,
you know, and this is our namesake, you know, like we, from Genesis 8,
22, the Bible says that there'll be four things that will always remain.
And one of them that he mentioned specifically is seed time and harvest.
There is something about this. And you can read 2 Corinthians 9.
The entire chapter is about giving and this idea that giving is like planting seeds.
Like we already addressed the manipulative, whatever part of it.
And we're not talking about that. That we're talking about the actual biblical
truth that's there in this idea that when we give, we are planting seeds.
And so I want to be doing that every single month, something.
I always want to be planting seeds just like Johnny Appleseed as we're walking around.
But the point of that, the simple component is that having this rule in place,
we are never going to spend 100% in a given month.
It's just a framework to kind of put some walls and legs to this idea of spending
less than you earn. And that's been really empowering for us.
Well, I think it's perfect. And it's a great, you know, there's a verse,
I can't think, I think it's in Corinthians.
He says, God provides seed for the sower and bread to eat.
Right. So we get this kingdom mindset of the money comes from God.
The return comes from God. The things we do with it are for God's people to serve his purpose.
If you get that mindset around every aspect of your life, I think you find yourself
just living on this higher plane of existence and you don't own anything.
You don't feel possessive of anything. You're not afraid to give it.
You're not afraid to open hand it. Right. Yeah.
Yeah, for sure. That's so true. Yeah.
No, we've, that is one of the most freeing things. Like, cause I,
um, yeah, I've just interacted with some people who, you know,
you, you can tell they are, they care so much about their possessions.
Um, there's a guy I'm, I've been considering doing a business deal with for months and months.
We've been having conversations and And I can just tell from the conversations,
he is so tight fisted that I,
you know, not only is it difficult to deal with and have a conversation with,
but at the same time, I'm like, I feel so bad for this guy in the way that he
is living his life because his
fists are so tight and everything is about how can I get as much as I can?
And like, it's, there's so much desperation in it.
Whereas that is not the kingdom way. The kingdom way is an open hand,
and it's so that God can pour into us and flow through us.
And when you do that, you know, and this is cliche, and we've heard this at
church or whatever, but like when you do that, it provides so much freedom and so much benefit to you.
And just kind of like how you were talking about in the process,
it's like through that giving, like there have been things that we've given
to where we've gotten so much more joy than the person who really needed the gift that we gave them.
And that is the way that the kingdom, I believe, is supposed to work. Mm-hmm.
That's right. So somebody asked, when you talk about giving,
like, are you giving to the church? Are you giving to charities?
Are you like when you decide you're giving this 31 percent of your age as a
percentage of your income? Like, how does that break down at first?
Yeah, all of it. We consider all of the giving.
So we do we do tithe. We give extra to our church. We have different ministries
that we want to be involved with or different organizations.
But then we also allow ourselves the freedom to, you know, throw someone a birthday party.
And that is giving to us. Because what ends up happening, I think,
is a lot of people will consider giving to their church as something.
And that's something noble.
And it's really because you get a tax write-off, you know. because that's what
the government tells you is giving, but that's not biblical giving.
Biblical giving is being generous with all of it.
So, I mean, it's been really fun to have this, like, you know,
this family just had a baby and they could really use some of the really good
snacks. You know what I mean?
So let's make them a basket of all the good snacks, throw some diapers in there,
a little outfit or whatever, you know, and make it actually more personalized
than just, you know, a quick little baby shower gift or a gift card, you know.
And it's actually brought so much enjoyment and the cheerful giving thing that
we've heard about in the Bible that we know that we're supposed to do.
Like this has made it possible for us to do that.
And I mean, it's been really fun. But do you want to talk about like how we
break it down numbers wise? No, yeah.
Okay. So there's a lot here. So back to what you were just saying,
that I think is so powerful that so many people miss is.
When you think of giving only through the lens of the certain narrow category
of giving to church or giving to this not-for-profit,
what that does, I think that creates a stinginess and a lack of a willingness
to give towards other situations.
And these are things, again, like you just mentioned, are things in your life
somebody has a significant need that you can address.
But if you don't see that as real giving, then you don't pour a lot of energy
into it. Yeah, that's right. That's what's so powerful.
So one specific practical thing that we did that I encourage everybody to do,
because this is a game changer for giving, and we created a separate account
that we call a seed account.
And every month when we get paid, we put money into that account.
And it's specifically sitting there for us to be able to give to any needs that
might come up throughout the month.
And what's so powerful about it is there's no temptation to spend that money
on the groceries or anything else that comes up that month because it's in a
separate, a whole separate account. count.
And so that money sitting there is specifically for giving. We just don't know where yet.
And we're waiting on God's instructions on where it should go.
And what's so cool is when he drops a need on our heart, now it feels like we're
giving someone else's money.
And it's so much more freeing and it is made giving so much more fun for us.
But the point is like reframe giving in your mind.
If you think it's only what the government's going to give you a tax right for
write off for whatever, because there's so much more that you can do.
And I believe God wants you to do that.
Just opportunities that are in front of us every day, you know?
And I think that might be the path for a listener out there who says, you know what?
I don't have a hundred dollars. Like I can't give a hundred dollars to somebody, $10 to somebody.
It might be a little bit of your time. It might be serving somebody in some way.
Like those are tangible things in God's economy. Those are fungible tokens.
I mean, these are ideas that can help people break out of this idea that I don't
have enough money to start giving because you do.
I mean, the fact is, if you're willing to open your heart, God will provide
what he wants from you and he'll provide that seed for the sower.
I think it's just a great conversation that we're having here around mindset
and willingness to open our hands, like you said, and let God work through us
because it's really all coming from Him anyway.
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. You want to add anything?
Yeah, I mean, I think keeping that, having that in mind that when we give our
lives to the Lord, everything is His. Like we no longer get to keep the stuff for ourselves.
And I've even been kind of, I guess, wrestling with and thinking about a lot
about the gifts and the talents that we've been given and how they can be used.
They can be used for our own selves and our own benefit. But I think that that
is a little bit when they, when we start to miss the mark a little bit.
And I think that a better use of that is using it for others.
And I'll give you just a quick example in my own life.
I had my, a birthday party a couple of years ago and everybody gathers around
and tells, you know, tells you the things things they love about you or whatever.
And it was so funny to me. Almost everyone at this party told me that I'm a lot of fun.
I was like, well, duh, I know that already.
But I have recognized in my own life that what like that is a blessing to other people,
but it has at times not been a blessing in my own life because what I've done
is I've tried to fulfill my own satisfaction of enjoying the day,
enjoying every single moment.
And there's just some times where you have to change a stinky diaper and it's not that fun.
And there's some times where you have to have a difficult conversation with
your spouse or walk through really challenging seasons with trauma and all kinds of different things.
And so when I have tried to use that for my own purpose of being like,
no, I'm just supposed to be having fun all the time. That's who God God created me to be.
It's actually just this self-serving pleasure instead of that,
that doesn't actually serve me all the time because that's not what life is all about.
But when I can let go of that.
And instead of serving my own self with it, let it go and have it serve others.
Then it's this really positive thing in my life. And then it allows me to let
God have his perfect work in my life,
which is walking through really difficult things with the grace of God and realizing
that sometimes it's just hard and you just have to cry for a while.
And sometimes you need to have the conversation that you've been avoiding.
And sometimes you need to just do the thing that you've been,
you know, procrastinating on for a long time.
It gives me that more balance of whole being and living on the earth for God
with that intention instead of just serving myself all the time. Does that make sense?
It does. Love it. Okay, burning question for you. And then you're going to tell
people how they can use you and the training that you have if they're interested.
But the burning question, we had a life group a few years ago,
and we were talking about tithing. And the conversation went around tithing,
and a big fight erupted. You can probably guess what the question is.
A big fight erupted around, is tithing pre-tax or post-tax of your income?
And that's a big question that people have. have. So tell us your thoughts on
that pre-tax or post-tax tithing.
Well, yeah, I mean, just tithing in general.
Uh, yeah, my belief is very much that this, um, was an old covenant practice,
um, that, uh, I still think has plenty of benefit for us today.
And so we choose to continue to tithe.
Um, that said, I don't, you know, I think it's really important,
especially as a new because I thought this, like, if I don't tithe, am I going to hell?
Like, you know, that's not what this is about. This isn't earning you righteousness
or anything else like that. But it's a, I believe it is a principle that yields benefits.
But outside of that is New Covenant believers.
You know, and especially as I read 2 Corinthians 9, which I encourage everybody
to go read that chapter, or 2 Corinthians 8 and 9, both of them are great giving chapters.
As I read that, I don't see the tithe being like the finish line of Christian giving.
And I think for some people, we're called to give more than that and give beyond
that. Like, you know, in our case, I know that we are.
And so, I guess what I'm getting at here is, you know, 2 Corinthians 9,
And one of the verses in there specifically says, each should give as they've decided in their heart.
And I think not, you know, under pressure or reluctantly.
And I think that we have too much of that going on in the church.
And I would love to see more people giving what they've decided in their heart
rather than what they're feeling pressured to do.
So that's kind of the first caveat of everything we're talking about here.
But if we want to get really specific to what this might look like,
for me personally, like as I kind of studied this out and evaluated this and
tried to pray about it and see what I thought,
I, you know, if I thought back to how taxes were, yeah, how taxes were collected
in the past, you know, in our case, a lot of times we have paychecks and they're
taken out before we get paid.
But back then it was different, you know, so you had to go walk over to Matthew,
the tax collector and pay him, you know, once a year or whatever the thing was.
And so in that case, they would have been tithing before they took taxes out, you know.
And and so for me, that was just kind of my logic of, OK, well, I'm going to tithe.
I'm not going to factor in the tax component, you know, so if I make my actual
salary is one hundred thousand dollars a year, I'm going to tithe ten thousand
dollars. I'm not going to wait till the taxes are taken out.
Now it's only 70 and then just tied seven.
I'm going to tie the 10 on the $100,000 a year salary or whatever.
So that's where I landed on it personally.
But, you know, I'm always open to hearing what other people think about it.
I think that's right. I think you're right. It's a personal give out of your heart.
But it was just I thought it was a funny thing because people were fighting
over the like arguing about this in life.
It's one of the most like one of the most controversial topics in Christianity
is tithing. Like I know. Right. It's like. Yeah.
Anyway, I thought that was fascinating. So if somebody is listening and they
say, you know, I could really use some coaching in this area of personal finance.
I could learn from Bob and Linda. Like, how do they contact you?
Tell us a little bit about what you do for people specifically and how my listeners could find you.
Yeah. So, yeah, like you mentioned, our book, Simple Money, Rich Life,
is a great on-ramp to everything.
That's a great all-in-one starting point to just radically improve your financial
life and just get a more holistic kind of— And you can listen to it if you don't want to read it.
Yeah. So we have a book on Audible as well. So that's a great starting point.
If you're not into books, we have basically a video version of this class or
in a six-week class that we call True Financial Freedom.
And we have that in a lot of different churches, but it's also available for
individuals and couples as well.
And so you can just go to our website, seedtime.com, and then that'll be on there.
You can get the book or that class or any of our other courses on budgeting
or investing or anything like that too.
Awesome. Well, I love the book. I listened to the Audible version,
did a great job with that.
While I was training for a half marathon, I was listening to Bob in my ear. Yeah, awesome.
It was great. And I learned a lot. I'm a seasoned liver of life and writer of
several businesses now, and I'm still learning from you guys.
So you're doing a great job and you're helping people.
I think aiming us towards a more kingdom-minded purpose with Let's just be purposeful,
write about our money, about our time, our treasure, our talents.
And I really appreciate the work that you're doing and pray God's great continued
blessings on both of you and your family and your children.
And thanks for your time today. It's going to help people.
Well, you as well, Lee. Thank you for the work you're doing.
Keep up the good work. And yeah, we'll chat again sometime. Thank you. God bless you guys.
What a great conversation. Be sure to check out Bob and Linda's website,
seedtime.com. It's financial education for eternal impact.
You'll love the book, Simple Money, Rich Life.
Music.