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Welcome to The Health & Wellness Practitioners Podcast! Dr. Danielle and other guest experts talk about everything from getting your practice started, developing your clinical skills, growing your practice YOUR way, and dealing with the real stuff life burnout and work/life balance. Whether you’ve been practicing for decades or just started your journey, you’ll find something here for you!
Dr Danielle:
Welcome to the Health and Wellness Practitioners podcast. I am your host, Dr. Danielle Angela. In this show, I and my guest experts will talk about everything from getting your practice started to developing your clinical skills, growing your practice your way, and of course, dealing with the real stuff like burnout and work-life balance. Whether you've been practicing for decades or just started your journey, you'll find something here for you. So take a deep breath and enjoy the show.
Dr Danielle:
Hello everyone. Welcome to a new episode of the Health and Wellness Practitioners Podcast. I am here today with Joanna Sapir, and we are going to be talking about how to know if you have a marketing problem or a sales problem. In other words, how to know if you need more new patients or clients, or if you need to actually focus on retaining your patients or clients for the long term. So before we dive into that topic we're gonna start off with the rapid fire questions. Joanna. Question number one is when there are so many career paths available in the health and wellness industry, why did you choose the path that you're on now?
Joanna Sapir:
Well, I think it happened very organically and chose me. Like many people might say, this is, I, I think of this as my third phase of my career, and all the previous ones sort of led to it. My calling was initially to teaching and I taught high school and high school teachers. I taught teachers how to teach for a decade and then sort of accidentally started open to strength and conditioning gym. I say accidentally, but that happened super organically too. Like I had never, never had visions of opening a business or anything and ended up opening this business, the strength and conditioning gym. I really wanted to provide this service in my community. And and that's where I had to learn business. Right. And then what I found was that I actually loved the business side of things. And and it was very natural to start sharing everything I was learning and applying in my own business to others who needed it. And I built that business to be sellable. That became part of the part of my goal and vision, which I think takes a lot of business acumen to, to to set up a business that it is actually worth something and has the systems to run it. And and so I sold that and knew I was already moving into this, which is, you know, providing business strategy and coaching for wellness practitioners.
Dr Danielle:
Hmm maybe one day we'll have a whole other conversation about building a business with the intention of selling it, because it is very different when you were a practitioner, especially whether it's as a strength coach or a chiropractor or a massage therapist. If you want to be able to sell that business, it has to be independent of you.
Joanna Sapir:
You, yes. Yes. And I think most, you know, solo practitioners can't even imagine that. Right. So it's like, there's, there's some steps in between there, .
Dr Danielle:
Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Question number two is what fills you up?
Joanna Sapir:
Yeah. so I'm, I'm aware of this, you know, there are multiple things, thank goodness. But today I am aware that I'm gonna be missing something that fills me up. So I had a date tonight with my two sons. My sons are 20, about to be 21 and 18, and my 21 year old lives in Berkeley. He goes to school there, which is about an hour away. And we were gonna, my younger son and I were gonna drive down and have dinner with them, and that just, I was so looking forward to that. But my younger son just got diagnosed with Covid, but but that really lights me up, is bringing, is at this age anyway, as my kids have grown up, is like us connecting. We went on a vacation together in December, and I just, yeah. Connecting with them at, you know, as young adults is definitely fills me up.
Dr Danielle:
That's really lovely to hear. I, I look forward to the phase of motherhood where I feel like spending time with my children, resources me, rather than drains me. Yeah.
Joanna Sapir:
Yeah. It's, it, it takes a while. How old are they?
Dr Danielle:
12, eight, and five. And I have a stepdaughter that is 20.
Joanna Sapir:
Okay. . Yeah. So, yeah, we we go through all the, the raising years and then, yeah. Yeah, this,
Dr Danielle:
And ironically, I have a date night with my kiddos one at a time every Wednesday. So today is that day, and today is my youngest's turn. She is five. And we are gonna go to the park and the library probably for our time together today, .
Joanna Sapir:
How sweet. How sweet.
Dr Danielle:
Alright. Question three. What do you like the least about running a business?
Joanna Sapir:
You know, this question is like, unfair , because everything I might come up with I know is fixable and solvable. That's the thing is like, to me, anything that I might come up with. So, you know, sometimes hiring and team is a challenge, and that's like something you learn. You've learned leadership, you learn better hiring, you learn how to develop your team, you know, and you learn how to guide and lead them. It might be, you know working too much. Well, that's completely fixable and solvable. So I don't, I don't, I don't, I I'm gonna avoid that answer because I really don't, I, the alternative to not having my own business, I can't even imagine, you know, that's so I love it all and I love all the challenges that it brings, including, like, what feels, what parts don't feel good. It's like, okay, how do we tackle that?
Dr Danielle:
Yeah. Well, there are certainly parts that don't feel good sometimes. , . Next question. What book do you think every person should read?
Joanna Sapir:
I'm not sure I have a book that everyone in the world, but let's say who's listening to this.
Dr Danielle:
Yes. Okay.
Joanna Sapir:
Speaking of challenges, I think one of my favorite books for myself to give to clients is the Obstacle is The Way By Ryan Holiday. Do you know that book? Yeah. And it's just about, you know, the, even the title has it, it's like the challenge, getting the challenge and addressing the challenge is actually how you succeed. You know, it's how you get through it.
Dr Danielle:
That is so relevant to me right now in my personal life. Oh, gosh, yes. I actually probably could go back and read that book again. I listened to it on Audible a few years ago, and I'll be honest, I had a lot of resistance to the message of that book. I was like, no, I just want everything to be easy .
Joanna Sapir:
Oh, interesting. Yeah, it's definitely the kind of book you can just pick up and open up to anywhere in the middle. Like, it doesn't need to be a cover to cover book. Each chapter's pretty standalone, you know?
Dr Danielle:
Yeah. Thank you. Okay, last question. On a scale of zero to 10, how crunchy are you?
Joanna Sapir:
So is crunchy like granola hippie? Is that Yeah. Yes. Oh,
Dr Danielle:
. Yeah.
Joanna Sapir:
Well, you're in Missouri. I grew up in Berkeley, California. Like, so probably most people would call me a 10, but, cause I grew up with like real hippies around to me, I'm not, but , yeah. Let's say to the most of the world that we could put me outta 10, maybe. Yeah,
Dr Danielle:
That's fair. Yeah. I feel like in Missouri or in the Midwest in general, we have like our, our own variety of crunchy, it doesn't look necessarily like being hippy-ish, but we're more like, you know, in our farm boots, feeding cattle, . All right. Cattle. I'm a paddle myself, but that's not,
Joanna Sapir:
I'm a 10. I'm a 10
Dr Danielle:
milking the goats . That's kind of become like the crunchy mom around here lately. ,
Joanna Sapir:
Uhhuh, , Uhhuh, .
MARKETING VS SALES
New Speaker:
Okay. Awesome. Thank you so much for playing along with the rapid fire questions. I know they can be a little sometimes they're very fluid. Another time it's like, wait, what, what are you asking me? . . Okay. So as we talked before, we were recording today we settled on discussing in a bit of further detail. How to know if you have a marketing problem or a sales problem in your practice now. I think let's first start off with the disclaimer that most of us don't even wanna look at these things. We, we don't wanna have to do marketing, and we don't ha want to have to sell anything. Yet we own a business and the first two key functions of a business are to market and sell a product or a service, right? So yes, we don't necessarily want to do these activities, but the obstacle is the way, here we go. We decided to be business owners, and now we get to do these things that can feel challenging. So with that being said, Joanna how would you first distinguish the difference between marketing and sales? Because these two terms are used interchangeably, often erroneous, erroneously.
Joanna Sapir:
Yeah, definitely, definitely. People don't know the difference and they mush it together. So let me start with, with saying like, how do we, how do we know whether you have a marketing problem? I think everybody thinks they have a marketing problem. That's what everybody thinks, right? And so they go, I need more clients. I need more clients. . So I should be doing more marketing. I need to get out there and do more marketing. And in my definition anyway, I'd be curious about yours, but marketing is how you attract attention and get leads. It's how you get people into your sphere. It's how you nurture them. And that, that is to me, how you get leads. But how you turn a lead into a client is your sales process. Mm-Hmm. . And so you need an actual sales process for that.
Joanna Sapir:
And I, you know, I mentioned how I owned a gym. I, I had no sales process when I first started, right? So people would like, walk into the gym, like it had some street visibility, or they would call or email through the website and they'd be like, this sounds great, or This looks neat, or, I heard about you. I'm wondering. And they'd kind of almost always ask like, how much does it cost? Like that's the first thing they ask cuz they don't really know anything else. And I would just be like, blah, blah, blah, you know, have kind of nothing in particular to say, you know? And the thing is, is it was a really unique, at that time, this was 2008, it was a very unique type of gym. And so compared to what people thought of as a gym, and in fact we were around the corner from a mainstream gym, you know, and those are like, what, 25 bucks a month?
Joanna Sapir:
Or something like that. And we were $160 a month at the time. So like, if I an just answered the question, which I did sometimes, you know, people would say, how much does it cost? I'd say $160 a month. And they'd be like, oh, okay, thanks. You know, and walk away . And so marketing is the attention, right? So I already had leads coming in, somebody walking into my gym or calling me or emailing is a lead. But if you have no process to turn them into clients, that means you're lacking a sales process. And I've seen that, I don't know about you, but over and over and over is practitioners tell me, can you help me with marketing? The very first client I ever had, that's what she came to me and she said it was even before I had officially started this business, somebody directly came to me and said, can you help me with marketing?
Joanna Sapir:
I am struggling in this. I don't know what to do. And so I did this assessment and she was actually getting leads. She had this Yelp listing. She didn't pay for it, it wasn't a paid thing. It was her clients had started it and they posted all these great reviews. So she got all kinds of people contacting her through that, but she had no process to convert them into clients. And so without a sales process, more marketing is just the full, it's the leaky bucket. Like, you're actually really wasting your time and money and energy on your marketing if you don't know how to convert your leads into clients.
Dr Danielle:
So can you share more about what you did in your gym at that time when you realized, like, people are coming to you and, and they're oftentimes just, you know, price shopping, they're looking at what does it cost? You're answering that question and then you don't hear from them again. What did you do to fix that problem?
HOW JOANNA FIXED HER "MARKETING PROBLEM"
Joanna Sapir:
Yeah. Well, the real truth is, is that I still didn't understand that that was the problem.
Dr Danielle:
. Yeah.
Joanna Sapir:
Right? I'm wearing all the hats. It was just me. I'm doing everything including, you know, cleaning . I'm, I'm, I'm doing the whole thing. I'm showing up for every class. I was a single mom of two young kids at the time, right? It was a lot. And one day one day on my only day off a Sunday, I found myself in the emergency room with symptoms that the doctors couldn't figure out what was going on. And I was, I had actually broken out in this whole rash and and was nauseous and I was worried about something super serious. And they're running all these tests, and after two hours when they're still running tests and trying to figure out, I just sort of had this awakening and went, oh my goodness, this is just stress. Like, that's all this is. There's nothing they, you know, they were looking at tropical diseases.
Joanna Sapir:
Like it was just this manifestation of my stress. And so at that point, I well, if I'm really telling the story, at that point, I still didn't know what wa you know, I just thought, I just need help. And so I sought help. And I tell this story sometimes, but I actually ended up selling half of my company to somebody because I didn't, I wasn't aware yet that I could actually hire great people to help me out in different ways. And I thought that I had to have somebody who would, you know, co-own it with me. That would be that, you know, just as motivated and driven six months later, bought him back out. It was quite an adventure. But what really, where I really figured out things was that I actually started getting business coaching. I sought multiple mentors, kind of, it took a little while to find the right person or people. And then I finally did and started learning how to do business and actually sales process, if I'm thinking back, it's a long time ago. But I think learning a sales process was probably one of the very first things that I did was you know, was taught to me because it's so incredibly important. It's how you are bringing money in. You know,
Dr Danielle:
You know what's so interesting because we go, you know, through like our certification programs or our clinical education, and we learn the modality that we practice or the way that we help our clients, right? Like the service that we offer, we're super excited about it, but we haven't learned how to actually sell that service. And it's sort of, it's almost like a catch 22 cuz yes, we had to have a high quality service that we offer that people want, and they understand why they need it. But also we have to know how to help them understand how or why they need that service. And just having the credential or the certification alone isn't enough. You can be a great practitioner, a great clinician, a great coach, and not have a great business. And that's really hard.
Joanna Sapir:
Yeah. It's so true. And it's always really sad to me because I mean, that's actually what drew me into wanting to work with wellness practitioners, was because I was the client of so many people who I just thought were brilliant at what they did. Do you know what I mean? Really, really skilled and so good. And yet their services were not designed in a way to have the power and impact that I knew that they could have. And they weren't doing very well financially. These are people I got to know, you know? And so it is sad, but it's true that it's independent of how good you are is your, your, your business success. Like, you have to learn business. You really have to decide to learn business. So anyone listening to this is in the right place to be doing that. But it's just like you invested in your, and continue to invest. I'm sure in your education, in your modalities and being a better practitioner, you do need to also invest in learning how to build the systems and structures in your business to make it, you know, sustainable, profitable, successful. Mm-Hmm.
THE PREDICTABLE SALES SYSTEM
Dr Danielle:
. All right. So if someone knows that they're getting plenty of hits on their website or the phone rings, often they're getting online bookings, but people are not following through. Maybe they come for their first visit, they don't come back after that. What do we do next?
Joanna Sapir:
Yeah, well, it, I have a, I have a five, five stage system and I call the Predictable Sales System. So it starts with just the understanding that what you're gonna do is create a series of stepping stones that we want. We want a step-by-step conversion process from the time somebody initially contacts us to when they say yes, and give us, give us the money and become the client, right? And so ultimately you can design that yourself, but I'll share exactly how I do it with my clients. And we customize these pieces each of these pieces. So it begins with only a single call to action. So your website only has one way for somebody to take action with you. It doesn't have this menu of things that they can choose from. The one thing for an in-person brick and mortar practitioner is schedule a phone consultation.
Joanna Sapir:
And so that's the initial invite, that's free. It might have different wording, you might call it something else, but it is about a 10 minute phone, phone conversation. And you do that with an automated scheduler, , I don't, I don't know about you, but like I have, I have like pretty gruesome, gruesome is not the right word, really painful stories right now. I'm in the middle of a, I'm in the middle of somebody else's lack of sales process. It's a practitioner that was recommended to me by a different, by a body worker that I see was like, I think you should see this person. And I went to their website and it actually did have a clear call to action for for new, for new patients, new clients. It said, fill out this form, you know? Click here and fill out this form.
Joanna Sapir:
So I go to the form, but all the form was, was a standard website contact form, name, email, phone number, message is what it said. Doesn't ask me any questions about me, nothing. So I just put in message, so-and-so referred you, that's what I put, you know, didn't ask me anything about, I just didn't ask me anything, right? So I clicked that it's been, I'll avoid the whole story, but it's been two months. It's just been this runaround. That person ended up calling me, emailing me, and texting me all at once after I put in that message. So I'm like, what, what am I supposed to reply to here? . And each of those messages said something kind of different. And this practitioner was put in one of those messages, put out an actual date, like, can you do this time? Can you schedule this?
Joanna Sapir:
So they were just trying to book the appointment right there. And I couldn't do that time. So I said, no, I can't do that time. And then it's just been this, you know, it, it's been a complete lack of sales process. Like, we don't want, we don't want this rigamarole, and you make it so hard for me to become a potential client. So in the system, I teach that, that 15 minute phone consultation, they're scheduling it with a self scheduler. You don't have to do this back and forth. You know, there's no, when are you available? None of that. They schedule that, which means you have to be available to call them back. And with my clients, we script, it's a pre-qualification script, and we put a lot of time and effort into scripting that conversation. And it is just the initial filter. So that's still not where where a client is making any actual decision.
Joanna Sapir:
You are first vetting them. So you are actually making sure that they're a client that you wanna work with and that you can help. I'm sure you teach about, you know, really identifying who your ideal clients are and making, and making sure you really know who your people are. So you have to know who you would be turning away. You have to be really clear about who you wanna work with and who you don't. And you're asking them a series of questions to make sure this is somebody that you can help and that you would wanna work with. From there part of that process too is giving them a little overview of what it is you do and how you work with your people. And because I teach practitioners who work with me how to create programs instead of sessions or packs of sessions, you are in the pre-call script actually explaining that because that's, that's a disruptor, right?
Joanna Sapir:
If most people are, you know, calling you up and expecting like, can't I just, you know, book a session and you're kind of leading them through the process of explaining, explaining how you do work with people, and then you actually pre-qualify them on things like budget, time, commitment. So you're really making sure this person does, you know, this is in their, they they can afford it. They're willing and able to commit the time involved to, you know, reach these goals. And of course, one of those initial questions you're asking them is, what, what are your goals? Why are you reaching out? What's going on? What's the problem? Right? All of that. So you have this really nice, I'd say it's not super in-depth, but this really nice pre-qualifying phone conversation with somebody. And if they qualify and they seem like a good fit for you, then you invite them to the next step.
Joanna Sapir:
So everything's by invitation, right? Everything's like a consensual process. And so the next step is actually still free, and it is a free in-person consultation and assessment. My clients name that in particular way, so they name it according to their, you know, modality and what they're helping people do and so on. So you don't call both of these a consultation. You need two different names. So from the phone consultation, I, as the prospective client, got this sense, I got, first of all, I got this sense that you actually don't take anyone. You're not trying to sell services to anyone. You're really like making sure that you think you can help me. And then you're inviting me to this free appointment where I'm gonna get a full assessment and understand what your treatment plan or program that you would advise for me would be.
Joanna Sapir:
And at that point is when I make the decision. So it's very safe for the prospective client. And I will just note, sometimes people say, that's so much time you're putting in for free, right? Well, when you vetted people like that, you pre-qualified them ahead of time. The conversion on the actual in-person consultation is like 80 to a hundred percent. You know, it's really, really worth it. And so from there, you're enrolling them again in a full treatment plan or program that's gonna really help them get to their results. And so that, that consultation also needs to be designed and also involves like a true assessment and some really particular skills in how you communicate what, what you do and what their needs are. And it's really about them. I think that's what some, you know, you, you opened you opened the show saying how we, we don't like to think of marketing and sales, like the, the word sell and sales is, feels so yucky, right?
Joanna Sapir:
We think we mistakenly think because our image of a salesperson is, you know, the, the, the used car salesman or the guy at the appliance store who's sitting there trying to like, pitch their thing, buy this because of this, and by this, because of this, in a really good consultative sales process, which is what this is, it's all about them. There's no pitching on your part, there's no convincing, you're not doing anything to convince somebody. You are helping them, is what you're doing. You're assessing their needs and you're laying out what you believe their treatment plan would be. And it becomes really easy for them. Of course, I like, I teach really specific ways to do this, but it is such an authentic process of serving people and making it very easy for them to say, I, you know, okay, how can, can we start ? You know, when can we start? Like, they're the ones who ask you that. It's not like you're saying, and you know, now you know, do you, are you, are you in, are you gonna do this? It's like they're, they're coming forward and saying that.
Dr Danielle:
I think that's a really commonly missed aspect of sales, specifically in chiropractic where like we, we don't connect the dots between what is that person wanting? What are their goals? What are they struggling with and they wish was different to like actually letting them know, telling them very clearly, if you want this outcome, this is what you need to do to get the best chance of having that outcome. And probably because we're afraid to like, make promises that we can't you know, we can't keep, we, we can't ever predict how someone will respond to care, for example. But people need to have that process lead out clearly for them, and they need to have those dots connected to understand why it's not just a show up here once
Joanna Sapir:
and and done
Dr Danielle:
Try this today. See how it goes kind of situation or relationship.
Joanna Sapir:
Yeah. It's interesting because it's almost, it counterintuitively. So one of my clients what he said after implementing the whole process, what he said was, before when I was session to session, I actually felt like a salesperson because every session I was trying to wow them and get them some like, instant results Yeah. So that they would book another one, right? And he said, he's like, I never actually got to get to the root of the problem. And I'm always just, you know, chasing the symptoms and trying to make them happy. Whereas to really get the results you're after, there might be sessions that are not like that right. At all. And so he said, you know, one, now they sort of buy into that whole whole term care and what this is gonna take. And to be really clear, this isn't arbitrary.
Joanna Sapir:
This isn't like 10 pack, a 10 pack of sessions. Do you know what I mean? You're actually laying out a process for them. And when you mentioned, you know, sometimes we don't know how people will respond, this exact same practitioner that I'm thinking of that said that he ended up designing. So in his assessment process, he has some little testing treatments where he's able to see how somebody's responding in that session. And then he has a choice of he's kind of choosing like six, nine or 12 weeks. Like, what do I think it's gonna be? And you can be fully transparent, you can say, based on what I saw here, I think it's gonna be a nine week process to get us to this point. Right? And then at that point, we'll look at this, blah, blah, blah. But it, you can be completely transparent and say, that's what I think. It might be less, it might be more, but that's what I think. And the more you do this, the more you nail it and just really do, do get it. But it's okay to be totally transparent and it's okay to enroll somebody in, for example, a nine week process and, and change it later. It's okay. You know?
WHAT TO DO WHEN YOU DON'T WANT TO TURN PEOPLE AWAY
Dr Danielle:
Yeah. For the last, what has it been seven years? We've talked about this many times on the podcast, you know, the, the notion of knowing who your ideal clients are. I think that the way you described it today probably frames that in a different perspective for people. And one of the objections that comes up for them often is, well, I don't wanna turn people away, I just need more, I need more clients. I need more office visits. I need to see more people. So what would you say to the person who is thinking that now after hearing what you've shared so far, ?
Joanna Sapir:
Yeah. Well, two things I'll say. One is that when you said, I may have framed it differently, I might be making assumptions here, but I think a lot of people think that identifying who your ideal client is, is a marketing move. And to me it's not at all. To me, this is about like your level of fulfillment and success in your business. When you work with clients that are challenging or have issues that are not resolving even with your work, it makes you, it's like a negative snowball effect. It makes you actually question your effectiveness and how good you are, right? Whereas if you actually choose who are the people that I love working with and that see the best results from my services, if that's how you, I, if that's how you define your ideal client and you base your business around attracting them and bringing them in, like your level of fulfillment in the work you do will be through the roof.
Joanna Sapir:
Because 90%, 90 to a hundred percent of your clients will be getting incredible results and you love working with them. That is, you know, a wonderfully fulfilling business. So I just wanna say, that's not a marketing choice. That is a, that is who you are here to serve choice. You know, this is like doing your work, this work you were meant to do. That's what that's about. And then the second side of it is actually on the marketing side, which is, you know, for the folks who feel like, but I can help anyone. Like, we know you can help, we, you can help a lot of people. Guess what? I mean I, I don't know about you Danielle, but like the systems I teach, I could I could work with a plumber,
Dr Danielle:
, right?
Joanna Sapir:
You know what I mean? Like any service-based business, the stuff I teach, it's honestly like business is just basic business stuff, right? But I choose to work with the people. I wanna work first. That's that first part. Who have I defined? It's the people that light me up and they get the best results for my services, and I love working with them, right? It also fulfills my actual purpose in, in sort of the change I wanna see in the world. So there's that. But as far as the marketing side, if you, who's watching and listening, right? You are looking for some kind of business strategy, business coach, business help. Are you gonna go to the person who is the business coach for everyone in your city? Any business in your city, or let's just say any business altogether. Are you gonna choose somebody like Danielle or I who works specifically with wellness practitioners?
Joanna Sapir:
You're gonna wanna go to somebody who, you know, knows your industry and it's the same in your work. So I happen to be, I'm about, I'm gonna be 49 in a, in two months , right? So I'm on, I'm like at a very particular phase of life and I'm a competitive weightlifter. Like that's pretty particular. So I'm a competitive athlete and I'm an older woman in perimenopause or middle-aged woman in perimenopause that's so specific, right? So when I'm looking for healthcare and practitioner and practitioners to serve me, the last thing I wanna do is go to somebody who's like not accustomed to athletes, doesn't know, you know what I mean? Like the kind of health markers or situations or pains and problems or goals and desires I might have. I am gonna really specifically be wanting to find somebody who absolutely understands who I am.
Joanna Sapir:
It's, that's what's gonna attract me. And I will not be interested in somebody who's general, general will not be, will not be attractive to me. And if that's all there is, that's available. Okay. I sort of, you know, so when, so on the marketing side of things, when you actually are really specific about who you work with, it is so attractive to them that you're gonna get way more people than you would generally general is gonna, it's like, it's like on a level of one to 10 in terms of attractiveness, general is right in the middle, like five outta 10. Right?
Dr Danielle:
Exactly what I was thinking. Yep.
Joanna Sapir:
And, and we want people to either be like, if you're specific, so let's just say you're a chiropractor who works with, what if you're a chiropractor who works with women in para menopause and athletes, like, you're a 10 to me. And yet to somebody else, you're a one and that's just fine because you're so strong an attractor for your right people that you're gonna get loads of them. Yes. You know? Yes.
Dr Danielle:
I love that. I love the the way you explain the magnetism in a sense of like the one and a 10, and you don't really wanna be a five, A five, it's just like, eh.
Joanna Sapir:
And that's, that's how your business feels too, you know? Mm-Hmm. all around. It feels that way. It's meh.
Dr Danielle:
Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. Oh my gosh, Joanna, we could talk about this probably for another two hours. But I do like to keep our conversations to a length that is around the average commute for our listeners. So I would love to have you back on the show and talk more about building a, a business or a practice that you can sell one day. In the meantime, if people want to learn more about you and what you do, where is the best place for them to go?
Joanna Sapir:
Yeah. So, well, we, my website is joannasapir.com and we do have a free gift for your listeners and watchers. And you probably have that, that link already. It is a training for, for the system in the systems and structures that I teach wellness practitioners to have more profitable and sustainable businesses. And so that's at joannasapir.com/healthwellnesspractitionerspodcast. That's a long url. Awesome. But if you, if you provide the link then people can get to that. And I also have a podcast and it's called the Business Revolution for Practitioners podcast with Joanna Sapir.
Dr Danielle:
Well, thank you so much for hanging out with me today and for sharing your expertise. I think that this is a very relevant topic for everyone that's listening, whether you like it or not, , whether you want to do, you know, the marketing and sales aspect of your business or not. The truth is, we signed up to be business owners and we also have unique services that the world needs for us to be able to convey to them. So in order to change our communities, we need to be able to overcome these obstacles, and get out there and let people know how we can help them.
Joanna Sapir:
Yes. And I'd just like to say, like, you can do it totally authentically.
Dr Danielle:
Yeah. Awesome. Thank you again. Join us so much. Thanks
Joanna Sapir:
For having me.
Dr Danielle:
Hey, thanks so much for joining me for today's episode. If you love this podcast, then be sure to join our free community, the Health and Wellness Practitioners Group over on Facebook where you can continue the discussion and get to know other people in the community as well. We're a group of chiropractors, natural paths, acupuncturists, midwives, doulas, massage therapists, mental health therapists, counselors, nutritionists, and the list goes on. So come join us, get to know other people, build some personal and professional relationships. You can find the group by heading to drdanielleangela.com/community and request to join the group. I will see you inside from there.