Chapter + Verse

What is Chapter + Verse?

A faith-forward podcast for people who love Jesus but also love being honest about how weird and wonderful life can be. Hosts Kerrye and Jill tell stories about the Bible, talk about their faith, and dig into what it looks like to follow God through the ordinary chaos of everyday, imperfect life. Real conversations. Real stories. No pretending to have it all together. Pull up a chair, turn the page, and let's go.

Welcome to Chapter and Verse, where people
come on and tell their real stories,

faith, failure, redemption, and the
occasional, "Lord, what are you doing?"

moment.

Some inspiring, some messy,
and some that probably should

have come with a warning label.

Because through every chapter of
every story, God is still writing.

And He's not afraid of a little chaos.

This is Jill.

And Carrie.

Let's turn the page.

Welcome to Chapter and Verse.

We're here with our good
friend, Sheena Winters.

Um, Sheena, we've known youâ¦

Because you go to church with
us, of course, and you go to

RFA, just like I, we all do.

But you've, you've gone
there longer than both of us.

Um, you were saying, like, 40-plus
years that you've been going to RFA.

That's incredible.

Probably 30.

Probably more like 30.

Oh, okay.

It's still incredible.

Yeah.

It is.

Yeah.

It is.

Yeah.

And, you know, my parents worked
with your husband, and you too

because you worked at the driversâ¦

What is, what's the official
title, title of- I've done

three long-term jobs in my life.

Mm-hmm.

One was working at the courthouse for
almost- Okay â¦ 18 years, and then

straight into working for the state police
as a driver's educator, or driver's ed.

Yes.

That's a- Not an educator.

Right.

I didn't teach any kids.

You didn't teach the kids.

You just tested them.

No, they had to know what they were doing
before they got me in the car with them.

Just as a side question, did you,
were you ever really scared when

you got in the car with these kids?

Uh, one time, and that was in
the beginning of my- Um, time

with the state police, and that
was a God moment, actually.

It truly was.

Because you were calling on him the
whole time that this kid was driving?

I pray, I pray every time I
get in a car with somebody.

Every time you get in a car, period.

Yeah.

Yes.

Just yourself, I'm still praying
like- Yes â¦ Lord, whoo.

But one time, this girl, she was a
Hispanic girl, and she couldn'tâ¦

She didn't know English, and
I sure didn't know Spanish.

And she, um, came with somebody's
car, and that somebody was, uh,

she was able to speak Spanish.

And so Iâ¦

This was a time when we could
allow people to ride with us that

brought their car, the owner.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

Gotcha.

They could get in the backseat.

Mm-hmm.

And so, but we didn't do it often.

But anyway, uh, there was a language
barrier there, and so I asked the

girl that owned the car that spoke
English as well as Spanish, I

said, uh, "Is this your only car?"

And she looked at me and she said, "Yes."

And I said, "So, what, has
this girl used this car before?

Has she ever drove it?"

"No, this is her first time."

Mm-hmm.

And I said, um, "So, you're going
to let someone that's never drove

your car, driven your car, doâ¦

And you don't have a sp- another
one, so what are you gonna

do if she wrecks this car?"

I said, "You're gonna be
walking like she's walking."

Oh, my goodness.

Without a car.

And that girl didn't think about
that, and she's thinking, "Oh, wow."

And I said, "Well, since I
don't speak Spanish, I'm gonna

have you ride in the backseat."

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

"And that way you can
give her directions."

Yeah.

And so we go around the block.

Mm-hmm.

And we get up there to the stop
sign there at Parkway, and I don't

even know what the street is now.

And she pulls out in
front of this vehicle.

Oh, my goodness.

Hmm.

Oh.

And right next door to that sign
is a parking lot, and I think

it was a insurance company,
Standard Insurance or something.

Okay.

Maybe, yeah.

So it has a huge, wide pull in.

And she pulls out in
front of this vehicle.

Ooh.

And I'm praying, "Oh, Lord."

And I closed my eyes, because I
was just waiting for the impact.

Yeah.

And God picked that car up, honestly.

That's the only way
that could've happened.

But he picked that car up and set it in
the drive- In the driveway â¦ facing.

Wow.

Not pulled in.

Mm-hmm.

But facing- Mm-hmm â¦ the
oncoming traffic.

And I'm waiting for the
impact, and nothing's happened,

and I opened up my eyes.

Thank you, Lord.

Thank you, Jesus.

Wow.

And from that point on, uh, I
started learning how to speak a

little Spanish to save my soul.

Oh, get that.

Mm-hmm.

And save my life.

To save, to save my life.

But that was probably the- Scariest moment
â¦ hardest, the hardest, scariest moment.

'Cause I was so new into it anyway.

Mm-hmm.

And then I had a young lady
who was so nervous, I think.

She may have had some
kind of problems going on.

But she, uh, got in the car.

She's a teenager, and she got in the
car and we got over by the park, and

all of a sudden she says, "I can't see."

Oh my gosh.

And I said, "You can't see?"

She says, "No, I can't see at all."

She have a migraine?

I don't know what was going on,
but anyway, she couldn't see.

And I said, "Okay."

We weren't going fast anyway.

I said, "There's a parking
area there where you can just

pull in behind Arby's there.

Just I'll tell you what to do."

And so we eased on in there, and
then I drove her the rest of the way

home, or rest of the way back- Wow

to the Houstoner.

But you realize- She didn't pass, right?

You realize- No â¦ when the driver's,
when the, uh, examiner is driving the

car back home, back to- Yeah â¦ the
business, it's a good- Something's gone

wrong â¦ it's a good sign that- Yeah.

They didn't â¦ uh, they didn't pass.

I just remember when I wasn't as
nervous with Chloe at all, um,

like, when she went to get tested.

I wasn't nervous.

I was fairly confident she would be fine,
and I was just like, "All right, great.

Congrats.

Come on, let's go home."

Um, but with Owen, my gosh,
that kid refused to drive ever.

And so I was like, "You have to get
your driver's license, and you've

got, like, four days to get it done."

'Cause his, um, permit was
gonna expire 'cause he just

had no interest at all in it.

And I was like, "Buddy, come on."

And so he went, and I'm so glad I wasn't
in that car because I, I know he's, I

know he passed by the skin of his teeth.

Well, I know we're not- By the skin of
his teeth â¦ here to talk about all that.

But I will tell you, and I think I
might have said something before.

Mm-hmm.

But the oldest person I ever
tested was 100 years old.

Oh my goodness.

I am not lying.

How'd they drive?

First time d- first time licensing?

No.

Or, like, was this a- He just wanted-
â¦ they got their license taken away

and- No â¦ needed it reinstated?

No.

Nope, he just wanted toâ¦

He was 100 years old, and he just
wanted to, to just be tested, just

because he wanted to be tested.

Um, he said he didn't
drive a whole lot anyway.

He did the back roads.

Mm.

That's what a lot of the older ones do.

But, you know, he tested
better than I would've.

That's great.

He was a great driver.

Nice.

I don't know if he's still alive today.

I'm sure he's probably gone by now, but.

Well, if he was 100 then, you- He was 100
then, and I told him- It's been a minute

since you've been doing that, right?

So.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

It's been a while.

And so I, I looked at
him and I said, "Manâ¦"

Uh, actually I said, "Sir."

Mm-hmm.

Um, "I'm gonna be the laughing
stock in Little Rock."

I said, "I passed a 100-year-old man.

But I gotta tell you, you did a great job.

I cannot fail you because of your age."

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

"You did a good job."

Yep.

I said, "That's not fair."

So I gave him his license, so whatever.

Well- Whatever happens, he ended
up- Good, you made his day.

Yep.

Yeah.

All right.

That's great.

I love it.

Okay.

Well, so we, when we have people on, we
just ask them to share, um, just what

God's done for them, a chapter in their
life and- Um, I'm, I mean, there's so

I know that there's so many things you
could share because, you know, your walk

with God is something to be admired.

When you start talking about
God, I mean, everybody listens.

They just do.

And I know you don't- Mm-hmm â¦ I know
you're gonna argue with that, but they do.

No pressure at all.

No.

This is just your story.

Yeah.

So it can't be wrong.

No.

I just know people really respect what
you have to say and listen when you talk.

So we're just gonna, we're just gonna
see what you wanna talk about today.

Well, I don't know that I really
want to talk, but I kinda feel

obligated to my sister over there.

To Jill.

Listen, you wanna talk, you just are
a little nervous about it, I think.

That's a â¦ P- most people are.

Yeah.

When they, when we ask them to
talk about their self, they don't

wanna talk about their self.

Yeah.

Actually, I'm not really nervous, it's
just I just don't wanna sound bad.

You sound great.

I know.

When I listen to my voice- Mm â¦ I'm just
like â¦ Well, I listen to these and I'm

like, "Boy, that's the way it sounds."

I, I just feel like everyone
feels like that, and it, the only

way that you get past it is to
continue to listen to your voice.

And then it's â¦ I, I don't know,
for me, it's almost like a detachment.

Like- Yeah, I understand â¦ oh,
well, that's Jill.

That's true.

That's Jill's voice.

That's true.

Oh, it's not about the voice.

No.

And I know that voice
probably sounds funny.

It's about I just wanna give God glory-
Oh â¦ and not show any ignorance.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

You know how I am, Jill.

But, you know, but what
we are here is just real.

Mm-hmm.

We're just real people.

That's true.

So it's okay.

We're â¦ Our, our intent is to show God
glory, and I think that He honors that.

Mm-hmm.

And He hasn't let anybody sound silly yet.

Nope.

It's been great.

Yeah.

And you're gonna be great.

Well, the purpose of me being here
strictly is to give God glory.

So I do hope that somehow or
another something will be impactful

to somebody that's listening.

Yeah.

And to listening to you guys, you girls.

So, um, I was telling Jill, I have
been racking my brain on things that

would be, um, a blessing to somebody.

Mm-hmm.

Maybe touching someone's heart,
giving someone some hope maybe.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and so I told her I was thinking
about stepping stones that's

paved me to where I am today.

Mm-hmm.

And so I told her that I think that
I could call this Stepping Stones

That Have Taught Me to Trust and Rely
on God's Strength and Not on My Own.

That's good.

Um- Yep â¦ Stepping Out in Faith Stones.

And so we looked, we call
these things journeys.

Mm-hmm.

But they're stepping stones starting out.

Mm-hmm.

And I have a lot of them.

I've got some that stand out big time.

Um, but, um, I'm not gonna go
through all of those because that's,

um â¦ Well, they're all chapters.

Yeah.

They're all chapters.

Mm-hmm.

And each one of them has
paved me to where I am today.

Mm-hmm.

And because of the, the ones in my
youth- Uh, in my teen years, I questioned

many times if I was a Christian.

I thought I was, but then there
was times that I didn't feel I was.

Mm-hmm.

And then when I got in my 20s, I
finally, finally found that I was.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I finally found in my heart that I was.

And so that is a terrible have to, a
terrible thing to have to go through, to

wonder- Just wondering if you're- â¦ if
you was or wasn't a Christian â¦ if

you're right with God and- Right.

And people even my age and y'all's age-
Mm-hmm â¦ today that have tried to go

to church and live a good life- Mm-hmm

and do right still question that.

And, um, when you finally get
it, as Dean Caldwell says-

Mm-hmm â¦ in your knower- Right.

Mm-hmm â¦ then you know.

Yeah.

And then Satan loses that
clutch that he has on you.

Yep.

That's one thing he has no more
control over, is when you decide

in your heart and mind that Jesus
Christ is the Son of God- Mm-hmm

then you will be saved.

Yeah.

Yep.

And then you proclaim it, not just
keep it to yourself, but you tell it.

You tell him that you are a Christian,
that you are a child of God.

And I would prefer to be called a child
of God than to be called a Christian.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I think that that's an
important distinction, too.

Like, I think this is gonna maybe
be a little politically meh,

and we might end up cutting it.

I don't know.

But I feel like the name Christian
has gotten a bad rap, and there are

so many things that are done in the
name of Christianity that really

have nothing to do with how God would
behave or what he would sanction or

endorse, and all the things thatâ¦

It's tricky.

It's tricky to call
yourself a Christian now.

You know, I met a lady yesterday.

It's a God thing.

I had two little God
incidents happen yesterday.

It was pretty cool.

But I met this lady, um, and sheâ¦

I met her at Lowe's.

Uh, it was quite by accident.

I was interacting with this little girl,
and the little girl blew me a kiss.

Mm-hmm.

And the lady said, "Aw,
she blew you a kiss."

Well, that was the last I saw of the
lady until we was in the parking lot.

And I was getting ready to put my
buggy up, and I saw her unloading

her stuff and, and I said, "Do
you want me to take your buggy?

I don't mind."

And she says, "Well,
sure, if you want to."

So I go over there and take
it, and then we start talking.

And one thing led to another,
and long story short is she

was raised a Mormon, and she's-
Mm-hmm â¦ about 10 years older than me.

She was raised a Mormon.

But oh, my goodness, you could
see God's character all in her

personality- Yeah â¦ in her attitude.

And she says, "Even though I was
raised that," she said, "I don't

really feel like I live like that.

I've got that embedded in me."

Mm-hmm.

"But I see more in my
life-" than just that.

And so she's been going to
church, to different churches.

Mm-hmm.

Friends that have invited her.

She's gone to a Baptist church.

She's even come to our church.

Nice.

She told me people that she has friends
with in our church that she came

with, and I don't know who they are.

Well.

And I know they go to your church.

Welcome to our world.

Yeah.

And I don't know their names.

Yeah.

But, you know, she blessed me.

Mm-hmm.

As m- and I hope I blessed
her in somehow, some way.

And I've told you, and I've told my Sis
group, that I try all the time to, before

I walk out the door, and some- a lot of
times I fail, but a lot of times I don't.

But I always ask God to let me, um, if
I'm gonna go out, let me bless somebody.

Mm.

In a smile or whatever,
or let them bless me.

Yeah.

But most of all, let us bless you.

Mm-hmm.

And I totally felt blessed yesterday
by meeting- Nice â¦ that lady.

Yeah, it was pretty cool.

And she's got a story, oh, my goodness.

She lost her husband three months ago.

Mm-hmm.

And I said, "Oh, well, I lost
mine almost five years ago."

And she says, "Does it ever get easier?"

And I thought, "How can I answer that?"

Because God gave me a peace that
surpasses u- u- understanding.

Mm-hmm.

That I cannot explain.

I mean, honestly.

Yeah.

Um, I've not goneâ¦

I don't think I have gone through
a grieving process, like what

we call a grieving process.

Because if I was to even entertain
that idea, I feel like I would

give God and Jay, uh, injustice.

Mm-hmm, okay.

Because Jay is where he has
strove all these years to be.

Yeah.

Right.

And God has taken him, he's used him
dramatic- uh, well- Yeah â¦ I don't know

if dramatic is the word, but- I think
so, yeah â¦ he has made a huge impact.

He has.

Yeah.

Not just on our community, but in
the state, in, in other states.

Yeah.

You know, he- Mm-hmm â¦ he was known.

But he never, we never saw that
coming in our younger lives.

Right.

We never saw him being a public figure.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

But he has made an impact.

And, um, he definitely
made an impact in my life.

But I did not realize in all the years
of our marriage, which was almost 45.

Wow.

I did not realize that what I had lived
with that whole entire time was a man

who was showing God's characteristics.

Yeah.

Until the Lord told me.

And I asked him one day, I
said, "Why can't I be like him?

Why can't I be like a couple other
people in our church that just

flock to you like bees to honey?"

Mm-hmm.

And he said, the Lord answered
me, and he said, "Because he

shows my characteristics."

And that stopped me right in my feet.

And I thought, "That's what I've lived
with all my li- all my married life."

Mm-hmm.

And that's what our kids-
Have grown up to be a part of.

Yeah.

So that brings me to tears- Yeah â¦ in
case the audience can't tell.

Yeah.

He, he was a very, you know, when you
saw Jay, you did see that who was the

most important to him, and that was God.

God was.

Yeah.

And the community that knew him knew it.

Mm-hmm.

The inmates knew it.

Mm-hmm.

They w- we could never go
to Walmart without someone

stopping and talking to him.

And sadly, sadly, I would just
leave him there and go do my thing.

Well, you'd have to or you'd be
there for hours and hours and hours.

But I should have stayed, because I
would have learned a lot of things

probably that I'm hearing after the fact.

Mm-hmm.

But, uh, I've had people tell me,
in fact, I stood there one day.

A, a guy had just gotten out of
prison some time ago, and he saw

Jay, and he said, "Sheriff," he said,
"I just wanna thank you for being

fair- Mm-hmm â¦ and treating me
like a person while I was in jail.

Um, I didn't like you at first,
because you put me in jail."

Yeah.

"But I did wrong, and you was right."

And he said, "I appreciate your kindness."

Yeah.

But I heard that, and
I've heard it before.

And someone else sent him a letter
when he was sick and was telling him-

Wow â¦ how much he appreciated him.

But, um, yeah, he, he left an impact, and
I don't think I have made a dent at all.

And I appreciate your compliments and your
comments about me, but you don't know me.

I mean, but we do.

And I think that it, the best impacts are
the ones that you don't feel being made.

You know what I mean?

They're just like snow angels.

Like, you're just laying there,
and then you get up, and you're

like, "Oh, there it is," you know?

You're just having a good time,
and then you've got this really

fun, pretty imprint- Yeah

in the ground, you know, in the snow.

Yeah.

Well, that was my stepping stone that
I've had to get over, the journey through.

Um, I don't think that
journey will ever end.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

It's gonna always teach me something.

Um, the, since he's passed, the
one thing that I have really, um,

embedded myself in is the word of God.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, I have never dug myself into
the word of God like I have in the

last five years, nearly five years.

Um, I wanna share this, that, , I
was reading a devotional

called, - Jesus Calling.

Mm-hmm.

I heard that one.

And, um, He spoke to me in that scri-
in that page that day, and He told

me, He spoke to me, and He said,
"I gave Jay to you for a season."

Mm-hmm.

He says, "N- now it's time
for you to depend on me."

And when He did that, when He said that
to me, I knew that that was who I had

to â¦ That's how I was going to survive.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

This widowhood thing.

Mm-hmm.

And so, um, I, I've heard
Him speak to me a few times.

I've seen â¦ He's spoken to me many
times out in nature when I'm out there

messing around in the yard and stuff.

Mm-hmm.

Just showing me scenarios and things.

But that was, that was
pretty â¦ Just a little different?

Oh, uh, it was Him.

Yeah.

"I gave him to you for a season."

Yeah.

"And now it's time for you to rely on me."

And so He has told me to take one
day at a time, one moment at a time.

Mm-hmm.

Um, talk to Him about
whatever decisions I make.

Even though I may not hear His voice.

Mm-hmm.

I just have to wait on Him.

Mm-hmm.

He wants us to wait and to trust.

And so that's how I've lived
these last four and a half years.

Mm-hmm.

I've been put in a position
that Jill knows very well about.

I was benefiting from.

And so does Tasha Bradley.

I con- I continue to benefit from.

Yeah.

But most importantly, God put
me in this position, and it's

called being assist leader.

I â¦ Through the four and a half
years of caretaking for my husband,

in, in that was the, um, COVID.

Mm-hmm.

Which also secluded a lot of people.

Right.

Yes.

And so we saw very little people,
very little people in our home.

Uh, we saw the most people at
the cancer place in Little Rock.

Mm-hmm.

And that'll give you a
real perspective of things.

Mm-hmm.

But, um,

I â¦ Anyway, uh, I saw â¦ When
I started coming back to church

after â¦ 'Cause we â¦ I couldn't come.

Right.

When I started getting back into
church, um- The first thing that

was so weird, honestly weird,
was when I went to Walmart.

It was â¦ When I walked in the door at
Walmart, it was just like, "Where am I?"

I mean, I don't know
nothing about this place.

Because, uh- So much had changed
â¦ yeah, because of COVID or because

of just the almost seclusion?

Because you hadn't been there
because you'd been with Jay.

Right.

I hadn't been out.

It was just- I felt like, uh,
the groundhog in its hole.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

And when I came out, it was like,
I don't know where nothing is.

The only thing I knew was the dairy
products was at the far end of Walmart.

Well, to be fair, Walmart changes
its stuff- It does â¦ all the time.

Yeah, but I'm telling you,
everything was turned around.

And it does it on purpose.

Well, yeah, if I had missed, you know,
a couple years, two or three years-

Mm-hmm â¦ even a year, and going
back in, it's, it's totally different.

I hadn't been to Walmart.

People were getting things for me-
Mm-hmm â¦ and bringing them to me.

And then when- Yeah â¦ um, um, his sister
started wanting to come and spend time,

and, and she knew I needed to get out,
but I didn't feel like I needed to leave.

I didn't want to leave him.

I wanted to be there for him.

Yeah.

But she â¦ I did go to Walmart a
couple of times just so that she

could have some time with him.

If they needed to do some
extra bonding- Right â¦ I did

it for her more than for him.

Mm-hmm.

So I did go, and I felt, oh, man,
I just rushed to try to hurry up

and get back, but at the same time,
I needed to give them some time.

But anyway, Walmart was
something that really stood out.

And then coming to church,
um, I didn't know anybody.

Yeah.

Some faces I knew.

Some faces were gone.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and then we have two services, so I
started coming- I meant to say- â¦ to

the first service to see if I knew
anybody in the first service, and then

I started going to the second service.

You're like, "Where are
the people I remember?"

Mm-hmm.

So, um, some of them were there.

Mm-hmm.

Some of them were gone.

Some of them hadn't come-
Yeah â¦ back from COVID.

Yep.

A lot of them have aged.

Mm-hmm.

I meanâ¦

Well, as we do.

Yep.

And, and then also, I suffered brain fog.

Yeah.

Severe brain fog.

And so, uh, I'm better,
but it took me a longâ¦

It took me probably three years
to get past that after Jay.

And every once in a while,
I'll have a brain fog moment.

Mm-hmm.

So I mean, I'll be sitting here talking
to you, and then all of a sudden

I forgot what I was talking about-
Yeah â¦ or what you were talking about.

Yeah, I, I just love how
you handle it, though.

Like, you're so open about it.

Right.

And, and like, I've
watched you talk to people.

Like, you'll go up to people at
church and be like, "Hi, I'm Sheena.

I don't think I know you."

And they're like, "Sheena, we
talked three weeks in a row.

I'mâ¦

I sat next to you last Sunday."

And you're like, "Oh, that's right."

No, maybe not like that.

"Well, I love you."

But you're right.

No, but I have seen it.

But when you first met me- Mm-hmm â¦ when
we first got to get to kn- know each

other- Yeah â¦ which you already know,
Carrie already knows- Yeah â¦ stunned

me that you wanted to be in my Sis group.

Um- When, when we first started, I told
you I was open to everybody in that group.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

That I- Oh, we all
know â¦ I did not know.

Every, every week we turned around, there
was another, there was another newbie.

I invited her to come to our group,
and we were like, "All right.

Bring it on in."

And for people who don't
know, y- just tell us whatâ¦

I mean, we know what Sis groups
are, but just if you'll tell

our listeners who don't know.

Yeah.

Well, I was getting there, but I
think I got sidetracked just a little.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

I did that.

No, I did it.

Uh, we had a meeting, a ladies'
group meeting, for all the ladies

in our church to come to start a
connection, uh, which was a very

needed thing that we, our church.

Especially since COVID.

Yep.

Yes.

Like, get connected again.

Uh, and, and we had a lot of new
people that- Mm â¦ has come to our

church, and they don't know anyone.

And unless they get connected into
a Sunday school class- Yeah â¦ or

a Bible study or something
to do with the kids- Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm â¦ um, uh, or
whatever we've got to offer.

If they don't get connected and all
they're satisfied with is just coming to

church, getting in, getting out- Mm-hmm

getting a little bit of the
word, and then they're gone.

Yeah.

They're never going to know anybody.

And, uh, so anyway, we had a meeting, and
I already had heard kinda rumors about

different things and people saying, "Well,
I don't know anybody in this church."

Mm-hmm.

And I said, "Well, I've been here for
X amount of years, and I hardly knew

anybody before he got sick, and now
I don't feel like I know anybody."

Yeah.

But they all know me because
of my connection to him.

So anyway, she, Tasha was telling us about
her little Sis group that she had started,

and it was just her and her little group.

Yep.

And so she just brought it to the table
to all of us and asked us if we wanted to,

if we wanted to be involved in a group.

And I don't know.

How many people was there?

Did we have, like, three, 400 ladies?

Yeah.

I don't know if we had that many.

I mean, it was probably- It was a lot.

Yeah, it was a lot of ladies.

I don't remember that first meeting.

Let's just be safe and say 200.

Okay.

But anyway.

Yeah.

It was a lot.

There was a lot, and I don't
know how many signed up.

But when that list got to me to
sign up, I definitely wanted to sign

up because I didn't know anybody.

Mm-hmm.

But then there was a question
that says, "Would you be

interested in being a leader?"

And I said, "Nope."

I'm talking to myself.

"Nope," and I'm trying to pass
that letter off to the next person.

I couldn't let go of
the little old letter.

"Do you wanna be a Sisâ¦"

Like, "No."

So I'm trying to hand it off,
and so I couldn't let go of it.

And so finally I said, "Lord,
I don't kn- I can't do this.

I can't do it.

I'm not there."

And so I'm trying to pass it off,
and again, and I couldn't do it.

And I said, "All right.

I'm just gonna put maybe."

Mm-hmm.

So I just put maybe on there, and then
I was able to let go of the letter.

Um, in all of this time
and seclusion that I have.

I lost my identity.

Mm-hmm.

I think that's really easy to
do e- even without there being

the added seclusion of COVID.

I think when you're a caretaker,
it's very easy to lose who you are

because you become a caretaker.

See, I worked in public
all my entire work life.

Mm-hmm.

I knew how to talk to people.

I knew how to interact with people.

Mm-hmm.

But now I was secluded.

Yeah.

I didn't know how to come out of it, and
so I, I, I just lived one day at a time.

That's all I did.

Yeah.

And so this has been a year now.

And, uh, um, so anyway, I signed
it, and then I prayed about it,

and I, I said, "Lord, I did.

I don't know if I'm stepping out on
faith, but I, I signed it, you know.

Okay."

Yep.

So I'm waiting.

The first week I don't hear anything,
and the second week I don't hear

anything, so I said, "Okay, phew."

Yep, phew.

Don't have to worry about that.

I said, "Well, I don't have to worry
about that 'cause they probably got

all they need to sign up on that."

And I'll be, on the same day if not
even that, I got a phone ca- or a

text from Tasha, "Thank you so much
for signing up to be a Sis leader."

I go, "Oh."

"Oh, this has scared me to death."

And she knows.

Mm-hmm.

She knows.

I said, "Are you sure?

You better pray about this."

'Cause she really doesn't
know me, and she- Mm-hmm

doesn't really know what all I've been
through, and she doesn't even know the

kind of person I was before this- Mm-hmm
â¦ sickness, and all she knows is the person

that she's come in contact with since.

But with our Sis groupâ¦

So anyway, as Jill knows, I haveâ¦

I prayed about it.

I was sick t- praying about it.

I, I, even coming up here to the
meeting, I prayed all the way

from the house to the meeting-

Lord, are you sure?

Are you sure?

I, I don'tâ¦

I'm not, I can't do this.

Uh, and I, so I thought, well,
I'll just go ahead and I'll

go up there to the meeting.

And so we get in there, and there's
this list of so many names that

I don't know any of these people.

Mm-hmm.

I'd say a handful maybe.

And so they're passing the list
around, and we're taking one at a time.

And, uh, we come to these names.

It comes to my turn, and I'm
saying, "Well, I don't know who

to choose, so and I'll ask."

And they'llâ¦

Because they were starting, the
ladies was saying, "Oh, well,

this is this person and thisâ¦

Oh, okay, I know this person."

That's what we were, they were saying.

Mm-hmm.

And so I just took whoever,
whoever they suggested.

I had no clue.

Mm-hmm.

And so I got whoever the Lord wanted me
to have- Yeah â¦ is what I actually got.

Yeah.

And so whoever I got was
supposed to be in that group.

Mm-hmm.

And so Jill, you wasn't in
the, you wasn't in my group.

I wasn't in the group.

She wasn't in that.

Uh-uh.

And so I called all my people,
and, and one of the ladies that

I called, um, she was about to
celebrate her birthday two days later.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, I asked her how she wasâ¦

She's a widow, or not a widow.

No, she's not a widow.

She's divorced.

But she, umâ¦

But I didn't know all of that stuff.

Yeah.

And I said, um, "So how are
you spending your birthday?"

And she says, "By myself."

And I said, "By yourself?"

'Cause I knew she had children.

She said, "Yep."

And I said, "Just like that?"

"Yep."

And I said, "Well, how
are you gonna spend it?"

She said, "I'm gonna treat myself
to a dinner at Cracker Barrel."

And I said, "By yourself?"

And she said, "Yep."

And I said, "Wellâ¦"

"Would you like some company?"

I didn't even know her.

I hadn't met her yet.

And she said, "Sure."

So it was her birthday.

Mm.

And so I got to thinking, and I
thought, well, I had met a few of the

ladies, um, prior, but I didn'tâ¦

You know, WM ladies.

Yeah.

And so I said, "Would y'all
be interested in goâ¦"

They were on our list.

Mm-hmm.

And I said, "Would you be interested
in going to this, to eat dinner with

this lady, one of the new sisters?

It's her birthday, and
she's gonna eat by herself."

So I had, like, four or
five ladies that showed up.

Yeah.

And she was shocked, and it
made such an impression on her.

Yeah.

And she knows who she is.

If she's listening, she knows.

Yep.

Yeah.

And it made such an
impression, and I love her.

I do too.

And, and, yes.

And she's, she's got such a precious
spirit, and it got her into WMs.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, so she enjoyed that.

She ended up having to move, but
now she's back, and she's trying

to get herself going again.

Mm-hmm.

But, uh, anyway, she is, uhâ¦

The long story short on this Sis
Group thing is that I did not

think I needed to be a leader.

I thought I needed to be led,
and I wasn't a leader because I

told God, "This is your thing.

I'm just here doing whatever
you need me to say or do.

You gotta show me."

And so the first meeting
that we had was a full house.

Yes, it was.

And I just opened up and told
everybody what I have said here,

and I've said a whole lot more
than what I've said right here.

But as we were introducing each other,
ourselves to each other, I thought

it was gonna be, "Hi, um, I'm Sheena,
and I'm, uh, a widow, and I've got

children and they're here and they're
there," but that wasn't the way it was.

Nope.

No.

It started off with one
person introducing themselves.

They didn't- I don't even think they even
said anything more about their family.

They just said, said who they were- Yeah
â¦ and they just said that they needed this.

Mm-hmm.

And then the next person, and then the
next person, and then the next person.

And then before we knew it, I didn't
think it was ever gonna end- I know

â¦ because it was supposed to be an hour
deal, and it, it was- And didn't one of

you said, like, not today, but in the
past, that people said a lot in that

meeting, I didn't think I was gonna come.

Didn't you say that?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I almost didn't come.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

And so, and so what this meeting
turned out to be was a healing meeting.

It really was.

It was the beginning of
healing for a lot of us.

It was.

One of the ladies in there
is a total turnaround.

Total.

Uh, so it's wonderful.

It's not me.

She's not talking about me.

I'm the same.

I'm not gonna- No, but our
relationship grew so deep.

Our, our relationship, yes, indeed.

I would definitely agree with that.

I feel like it was very,
um, surface level before.

You know what I mean?

We'd- Well, I knew you and yeah â¦ see
each other around and stuff.

Yeah.

Like, I knew you.

I'd be like, "Hey, what's up, Sheena?"

And then off, off we go.

Well, I see you around Carrie all the
time, but I didn't know the connection.

Yeah, which is hilarious 'cause like you
see me around Carrie all the time, but

what else would connect me besidesâ¦

I, I mean, I guess we're buddies
and we do all the things together

now, but you know, kids, but- Yeah.

Crazy, crazy, crazy.

I just remember being givenâ¦

I missed that first meeting
with the 200 ladies where you

like sign up and all that.

Mm-hmm.

I missed that meeting.

I think I was out of town or something.

But I remember w- you guys were talking,
not like you, Carrie, were talking

about it with somebody else and, and you
ended up talking about it with me, and

I was like, "Well, I mean, I'll sign up.

Who, who are the leaders?

Like, who are the leaders and I'll
sign up for somebody's group?"

And we read off all of the
leaders and I was like, "Huh.

I think Sheena."

I was like, there was n- and I, I know a
lot of the other ladies, and I love them.

Yeah.

But there was just something
like- There was probably 14 or 15-

Yeah â¦ different leaders Lots of them.

Yeah.

I, I would've been fine with any of them.

They're all wonderful women.

I would've been drawn to and felt very
comfortable in several of their groups.

Yeah.

But there just wasn't another
group that I felt like, "Nope,

I'm gonna sign up for that."

And so I remember texting, 'cause I think
you had told me that, um, Sheena's group

was already pretty large, and so- Mm-hmm.

We had a big, we had a big group.

We still have a big group, I think.

Yeah.

I haven'tâ¦

I was, we were supposed to have 10.

Yeah.

And then I ended up with 13.

Yeah.

And then I ended up with almost 20.

I know, 'cause I think you
had 13 when I messaged you.

And so I messaged you, and then you said
you had to get permission from Tasha.

That's right.

And I was like, "Oh, man."

And so I started going to, like,
panic mode and plan B mode.

Like, "Okay, well who
else will I wanna be in?"

Mm-hmm.

And I just couldn't come up with
anybody else, and I was like, "Ugh."

'Cause you were supposed to be there.

Yeah.

And- Yeah.

You know, I truly believe that everybody
that I have had in my l- my group, even

this season, was supposed to be there.

Mm-hmm.

I agree.

Um, there was some in this
season that I did not know.

Um, and they were younger, and, uh,
I know they have their life, and

I know they got babies, and I know
things happen, and they couldn't be

as committed as they wanted to be.

Yeah.

And, uh, that's, that's, uh, uh, that's
sad because they missed out on- Mm

our smartness, you know?

Yeah.

Your wisdom.

They just missed out on my
personality and all that good stuff.

And all the sass.

Yeah, all the sass.

But, but honestly, back at
that first meeting, um, itâ¦

Carrie, you asked me about
people not showing up.

It had never occurred to me
that no one would show up.

Mm.

It never occurred to me.

Um, but in the second
season- Mm-hmm â¦ it did.

It, uh, it attacked me big time that-
Mm â¦ no one's gonna show up or what, you

know, whatever, and I let that bother me.

Uh, but they did show up.

Yeah.

And, but, and in, in the first season,
the first season was not for me.

I mean, it was not for them, as
much as I feel like it was for me.

It was for you.

Yeah.

Because, um, I did come
out, and I have changed.

I know I have.

People accuse me of being
too friendly, I guess.

No.

But you know what?

I never sat, and I'll just say this out
here now, you will hardly see me, unless

the Lord changes my mind, you will hardly
see me sit in the same place at church.

Yeah.

I move around.

I always find somebody new, or I
have found some people hurting.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, that's how, that's how I've
gotten so many in the Sis group.

is just reaching out.

Well, I love that you, like,
that's, that's your go-to.

Mm-hmm.

Like, do you have a Sis group?

Do you wanna come to mine?

You know?

Yeah.

Like, let- And that's how you should
be â¦ let's get you plugged in.

Mm.

Because people need
connection to other people.

You know, COVID did us a great disservice
in, like, trying to make us think that

we can make it on our own, but we can't.

Yep.

We can't make it on our own.

You know, even inâ¦

I've just started doing this, uh, being
a host or greeter, whatever- Mm-hmm

you wanna call it, in the
hallways on Sunday mornings.

I just started doing that.

And the second, the second time I did
it, I was noticing people going through.

And I mean, I just, I, I just
reach out to people, you know.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, so listeners, if you go
to First Assembly and you hear

this- â¦ I'm the crazy lady who
reaches out and sometimes takes a hug.

Uh, but anyway, they just had so
much on their h- on their mind.

They just kept walking on by.

It's like no smiling, you know.

Mm-hmm.

And maybe not, but that's what I, I felt.

And so when I saw those people, and when
I see these people now, I reach out.

Mm-hmm.

And I'll say, "Hey."

I'll take your hand, shake your
hand, say, "Hey, how are you?

Oh, do you know so-and-so?"

Mm-hmm.

So they don't know anybody, so now they've
met, they've met somebody, you know?

Right.

Yeah.

That's a good idea.

You, you're facilitating, um, connection.

Mm-hmm.

Well, I don't know how long- All
the different ways â¦ this is

going to last, but I guess you'll
just have to put up with me until.

I mean, I think you're very
good at, at doing that.

Like, obviously.

Me too.

And like you found a ministry after
â¦ Most people would say, you know, after

they lose a spouse, like, well, you
know, this â¦ My â¦ I mean, some people

say, "My life's over, and I'm just going
to be by myself, secluded," you know?

Oh, I've wanted to be.

Mm-hmm.

I love staying at home.

I do.

Mm-hmm.

I, I love staying at home, but I
also know that I have to get out.

Because if I didn't go out yesterday,
which I wasn't planning on.

Mm-hmm.

If I hadn't gone out yesterday,
I'd have missed out on that lady,

and one other person that goes
to our church that I got to help.

I would have missed out on that
opportunity of getting blessed,

and I hope I was able to say
something that blessed her.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

But, um, I will tell you, there's
been times, starting off for sure,

and it happens every once in a
while now, that I don't wanna get up

and go anywhere on Sunday morning.

Mm.

I wanna stay at home.

Listen, Herkel Durklin
has a serious hold on me.

It does.

Well, yeah, people â¦ It's,
it's comfortable.

It is comfortable.

To stay at home and,
and â¦ But God didn't say stay.

He said go.

No.

Right.

That's exactly right.

And, and at least three times,
I can say this, that he has

told me, "It's not about me."

Mm-hmm.

The â¦ Talk about Sheena.

Yeah.

It's about me talking about him.

Yeah.

Right.

And it's about what I can do.

When you go and do whatever, go
to church, I can use you to be a

tool to bless- Mm-hmm â¦ somebody
or to let them bless you.

You might need the blessing.

Or to bless, you know, whatever,
but it's not about you, Sheena.

Yeah.

And so he has proven that because, um,
the first time he, uh â¦ I got up.

I, I just heard that voice
telling me, "It's not about you."

So I got up out of bed and I
went to church, and what happens?

And this was shortly after Jay died.

I run into this lady who I didn't know
her in our church, but she had lost her

husband probably six to nine months prior.

And, uh, ran into her in the
foyer as I was coming, you

know, out of Sunday school.

And she, she came out of the sanctuary.

I guess she'd gone to
first service or something.

I don't really know.

But anyway, she came out and she saw
me and she grabbed me and she said,

"I know what you're going through."

And everything was still raw.

Yeah.

And oh, my goodness, the
tears started flowing.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

So I needed to be there.

I needed that.

Mm-hmm.

The second time around, um, I wasn't
gonna go, and, uh, it's not about you.

Mm-hmm.

And lo and behold, I get up
and get around and somebody's

waiting for me in the foyer.

Long story short on that, that person got
saved and filled with the Holy Ghost- Wow.

months, months later.

Yeah.

And I got to witness that part too.

Mm-hmm.

Which I almost stayed home on.

That stinging devil
trying to keep you home.

I know.

But what a blessing that was that morning.

Yeah.

And then there was another time where,
um, Larry Moore, somebody had posted

a message that he had preached and I
was just, didn't wanna go to church

that morning, so I was gonna read that.

And I was reading through it and then
down towards the bottom, somewhere

along the body of that message,
I can't tell you what the message

was, said, um, "It's not about you.

It's about me."

Mm-hmm.

"It's about what I need you to do."

And I went to church.

And so now pretty much I try to come.

Mm-hmm.

But anyway.

Well, we're his hands and
feet here on Earth, so.

Yeah, but it's also obedience.

Mm-hmm.

Um, commitment.

That was another thing that I
struggled with, was commitment.

And, uh, one of the things I did
the first year after he died is

I got involved in a Bible study-
Mm-hmm â¦ that was a year long.

And I said to the person that I
did not know, she wrote a book,

you prob- you know who she is.

Mm-hmm.

She wrote a book and it intrigued me and
I thought, "Well, I'll just read that."

And she said, "Why don't
you come to Bible study?"

And I said, "Well, when
is it and how long is it?"

She says, "It's for a year."

I said, "Well, I can't do that."

Yes, you can.

And she said it with such force.

And like I said, I didn't know the lady.

Um- Listen, once you know the
lady, it makes sense that she

said- Yeah â¦ it with force.

She wasn't trying to be ugly.

No, she wasn't.

She wasn't.

I felt like it was the Lord speaking to
her- Oh, yeah â¦ saying, "Yes, you can."

Mm-hmm.

And so I started going to it, and,
uh, I would s- I don't think I

missed more than a couple of them.

Mm-hmm.

I don't think so.

Um, but I went because I was challenged.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, you can.

You can do this.

Yeah.

Um, I also did it for
her, to show support.

Mm-hmm.

And that's what the Sis leaders-
'Cause that matters, yeah.

That's it.

That's right.

That's what encourages the Sis leaders,
even, is- Mm-hmm â¦ your presence, your

commitment helps encourage us to continue.

Right.

Because we need the support as
much as- Yeah â¦ the sisters do.

Yeah.

And soâ¦

But anyway, so this is where my
stepping stone is at this point

right now, is- Mm-hmm â¦ finishing
up this season with the sisters.

I don't know if I'm going to continue
it, because I kinda feel likeâ¦

And God's gotta show me if he
still wants me to be in this.

Mm-hmm.

But I kind of feel like he
wants me to do something else,

and I'm just checking it out.

Just checking it out.

Okay.

So how do you know?

Like, I know I've heard a lot of people,
a lot of people have asked me, how do

you know when you're hearing from God?

How do you know?

The Holy Spirit.

If youâ¦

I know I've asked that question.

Mm-hmm.

Who hasn't?

Right.

Um- If you're in tune with him, and the
best way to be in tune with him, which if

I'd have paid attention back in the days
of old, I would've been stuck in my Bible.

Mm-hmm.

And I would've been better
able to be prepared.

Yeah.

And I would've been
able to hear his voice.

Because when you read God's word, I
don't care how confusing it is, if you

stay with it, he will speak to you.

Mm-hmm.

Throughâ¦

Maybe not at that moment, but
somewhere, as long as you stay

in tune with him every day.

Yeah.

Talk with him.

You may not can read your Bible every day,
but you can get some scripture somewhere.

Yeah.

Even in this day and time, for sure.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

But to hear his voice, it stops me.

It stops me.

Uh, well, you know, you're reading
the Bible, and all of a sudden you're

thinking, "Wow, I didn't know that."

Mm-hmm.

That was the Holy Spirit that
just pointed that out to you.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

And so that's how I know, 'cause the
enemy is not gonna tell me anything good.

No.

And so you just, the more you
listen, the more, excuse me, the

more these experiences happen- Mm-hmm

the more you get in tune.

But the further away from the
word that you are from him-

Yeah â¦ the less you hear.

Yeah.

And so for me, that's been my
experience in these last five,

five years, four and a half years.

Almost five.

But, uh, the more I have read-
the more he speaks to me.

Oh my gosh, I just got
through reading Job.

It took me almost nine months.

We love Job.

We do, we do.

We talk about Job all
the time on this podcast.

Yeah.

And literally probably every day
when we're not on the podcast, we are

talking about something about Job.

We bring it up, yeah.

We love Job.

Well, it took me about nine months
because what I did, instead of

trying to read the Bible- Mm-hmm

throughout a year, and I've done that.

I mean, that was a challenge.

Yep.

And I finally got through that.

And I've done it several times.

And I thought the first time I'd never get
through it, and I've given up many times.

But I thought, "I'm gonna do this
whether I get anything out of it or not."

And I'd pray and I'd say, "Lord,
I know you've got all these hard

names in here for a reason."

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

"And I know that I've heard
people say, 'If you can't say

the word, just skip over it.'"

"But I know you have that word, that name
in there for a reason, and I'm gonna sound

it out even if I don't know what it is."

And so I did.

I got through that, and then the
second time I read the Bible through, I

thought, "Wow, I remember reading that."

Mm-hmm.

And it came to life even more.

And then the third timeâ¦

I, I think I've probably read the Bible
through completely maybe five times.

It could be more.

But this time last year, I decided,
I started off reading it f- you know,

for the year, and then I changed my
mind in July because I don't know why,

but Job just stood, stood out to me.

And so I started scripture by
scripture, reading each scripture

and studying it, writing down
references and, and things like that.

Mm-hmm.

And it's take, it took me, I think it was
February of this year that I finished.

Wow.

And now I'm doing Hebrews.

Ooh.

So.

Yeah.

But I've learned a lot.

Yeah.

And so, and in Job, it just, I thought,
"That's where I've heard that before."

Mm-hmm.

Coming from parents or people.

Mm-hmm.

Where they've gotten those things.

Mm-hmm.

You know?

So yeah.

Yeah.

So that's how, as far as the Holy
Spirit goes, he has spoken to me.

Mm-hmm.

And I have really lived a lot of what was
in Job throughout the sickness with Jay.

Yeah.

I feel like it's- Well, like you've said,
you know, I think in, um, one of the

previous episodes that, um, Job is the
first book of the Bible that was written.

It's not the first book in your Bible,
but it is the first one that was written.

So that means Job didn't
have anything to go on.

Mm-hmm.

He didn't have anything, like,
tangible to, like, go and study and

be like, "Okay, what do we do here?"

And he went through so much, and
all he had to lean on was his prayer

life and h- and the relationship
that he built with God, and the

trust that he would hear God's voice.

That he, he spoke to God enough that
he could trust that he would recognize

God's voice when He spoke back.

Yeah.

And when we are grounded like that,
I mean, there was no, no way that his

friends was going to convince him- Right
â¦ that he had done something wrong.

He knew in his knower-
Yeah â¦ where he stood.

And, um, when we are in that position,
in our knower, there's nothing that

anybody can say or do to convince you
that you have seen angels or heard

of angels or had an angelic- Mm-hmm
â¦ experience or heard God's voice.

There's nothing.

When you know, you know.

Yeah.

And so you just hope that they will
get an opportunity- Mm-hmm, yep

you know, for that.

But I was gonna tell y'all that when Jay
was sick, towards the end, we wereâ¦

I think we may have been listening.

He loved Jer- David Jeremiah.

Mm-hmm.

And so- Okay, yep â¦ we always
watched David Jeremiah, and then

we watched service, online service.

And so, uh, our service.

Yeah.

And there was a song that came out.

I wasâ¦

I left the ki- livingâ¦

I left his bedroom, left his bed
and went into the kitchen to get

something, and the song came on.

I'd heard it before,
but man, it floored me.

And I just, I just wanna tell
you that, and I don't even

know how much time we got left.

Oh, go ahead.

We got plenty.

Mm-hmm.

But I just wanna tell you, um, that as
I walked out of the bedroom, halfway

into the kitchen, the words was, and
I'm not gonna sing the song because

I didn't put it all, I didn't put
all the words in it correctly- Yeah

but this is- That's
okay â¦ the gist of it.

Um, I love you, Lord.

All your mercies never failed me.

In all my days, I've
been held in your hands.

You led me through the fire and
through the storms, and you've

been with me in my darkest times."

That floored me.

I have lived in the goodness of God.

Mm-hmm.

And as I walked through that room,
visions of my stones that I have

already traveled kept coming to me,
visions that he brought me through.

Yeah.

And I don't know, I didn't know
how this was going, this story

was going to end with Jay.

Mm-hmm.

But I knew that I had a savior that
could heal him completely on this earth.

Yep.

And we were praying for his healing.

Mm-hmm.

But he got his heavenly healing.

He got his spiritual healing.

Yep.

He got his godly healing.

And it wasn't the way
that we all wanted it.

Right.

But it's the way God wanted it.

Now, that's to say the same thing with
anybody else that's lost a loved one.

If God is ready to take us,
there's nothing we can say or do

medically, financially- Yep â¦ or
anything that's gonna change that.

If He's ready, He's ready.

Mm-hmm.

And yes, I know that He can
change His mind, and He can heal.

He can heal.

Yeah.

I know that.

But if your loved one is in, uh, in
your mind and in your heart, you know

how your loved one is spiritually
with God, you cannot hold him back.

Yeah.

I mean, it, and, and holding back
would be like becoming bitter

because God didn't answer your
prayers the way you wanted them.

Yeah.

Um, and not thanking Him for taking,
thanking God for, for seeing you

through all the difficult times.

And, and, and for Jay, I can tell you
what God has done for Jay on this earth.

He had severe pain starting off
until we found out what had happened,

and that knocked us off our feet.

We were so shocked.

We were so shocked at the diagnosis.

Yeah.

We wasn't expecting nothing like that.

We just thought it was migraines.

Mm-hmm.

But it, it, it threw us.

You know, we get thrown out of
kilter sometimes in our situations,

whether it's financial, whether it's
sickness, whether it's relationships.

We do, and if you don't have God,
you are in some trouble- Mm-hmm.

Right â¦ because you're gonna have a
hard time getting through the situation.

But, um, God was good to Jay.

Mm-hmm.

He, uh, got us to the right people.

Mm-hmm.

He put us in the right places.

He provided for us financially.

He, um, saved Jay from being in pain.

Jay didn't take a lot of pain pills.

He hardly had a pain pill.

That's incredible.

Like, knowing his diagnosis,
that, that's significant.

Right.

That's a miracle.

He, he hardly had a pain pill.

Um, he, he, uh, he didn't suffer.

The s- the suffering that
he had was quality of life.

Yeah.

He had no quality of life, and when we
first was discussing on whether or not

we were going to do the, the treatments,
um, he didn't want to do the treatments.

And that was his call.

I didn't encourage it one way or the
other, because that was his call.

Mm-hmm, yeah.

But I was praying.

But he said, he said, "I don't
wanna die," but he said, "If it

brings glory to God, then I'mâ¦

Whatever He decides is,
is whatever He decides."

And so that was where Jay was at.

Mm-hmm.

And so when he passed, he
passed peacefully, and that was

an awesome experience for me.

Yeah.

Oh, my goodness.

I can't even go there.

I mean, it's just God gave me,
that's where that peace that passes

all understanding come into play.

Yeah.

And then when you look back at everything.

So anyway, I didn't really
think I would talk, uh, so

much about him and losing him.

I know a lot of people are
interested in him- Yeah

more than the Sis group.

But honestly, the Sis group is
the stone right now that I'm on.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, God showed me, um, after, almost
after the whole year was up, that I needed

you girls more than y'all needed me.

I don't think that it was more.

I think it was maybe as much.

But I can tell you that you all have
helped me be where I am right now.

Well, same, sister.

Because, I mean, we still have
the little group chat going.

Really?

And yeah.

Yes.

Um, listen, I just feel like once a
Sheena sister, always a Sheena sister.

Yeah.

That's true.

Well, that's the way I would like it.

Yeah.

And I really wish I could've gotten closer
to the second group, the second season.

Yeah.

I do have some wonderful
ladies that I have got to know.

Mm-hmm.

They are s- they are committed to
me, and they, they do what they can.

Um, and I know that you can't
come to every single meeting.

Yeah.

But I know that they are committed to me
and to the, to the system that we've got.

And I have Carrie's
daughter, whom I- Mm-hmm

love to death.

Um, and she's gonna be a new mommy.

And- Yep â¦ um.

And I was really glad that she got
in your group, because I was like,

when Sheen said she was gonna be
in the group, I was, I thought, "I

hope she's in She- Sheena's group."

Because I'd heardâ¦

Not, not that, you know,
I had a great group.

I mean, both times.

But, but you know, I noticed, I think I
noticed a lot of changes in the people who

were in your group, just for the better.

Well, I mean, you had a
front row seat with me.

Yeah.

Like, Jill- Yeah â¦ I was really
surprised, honestly, that- that,

that you said you wanted to be
in Sheena, it's not because, you

know, y'all had, you know, not a, I
mean- Had a beef or anything, yeah

no, no.

But I just thought,
Jill's gonna be in one?

Like, even though you're an
extrovert, like, it didn't seem

like something that you would try.

Yeah.

And you just had a great experience,
and so did the rest of your

group and, and a lot of groups
had a lot of good experiences.

And it's, it's been just so
good for our church overall,

just to have the connection.

You know, when you look across the
sanctuary, I know her, I know her.

Mm-hmm.

I know her, even though she's not in
my Sis group, I know she ha- is in

one, and I know about that Sis group.

You know, you just, you make connections.

And the way- So â¦ you make
those connections is you've

got to put yourself out there.

I put myself- Yeah â¦ out there,
and God too- Mm-hmm â¦ got

hold of it and ran with it.

Yeah.

The one thing He told me when I came home
after that meeting of choosing everybody,

oh, I was so wore out on praying.

It was 9:00.

I'm telling you, I got home at 9:00
and I thought, "Lord, I am so tired.

I'm going to bed.

I can't deal with this."

Mm-hmm.

"I- I'll talk about this tomorrow."

And I, but I still, I said,
"Lord, what am I gonna do?

What am I gonna say to these ladies?

I don't know these ladies.

I don't know their needs.

Uh, uh, you know, I don't know."

And He said, after I stopped talking
and I laid my head down and had

decided I was going to go to bed and
go to sleep, when He got a moment

to get a word inch-wise, He said-

"Tell them they are loved."

Mm-hmm.

"Tell them they are unique."

Yeah.

"Tell them they're this and that they're
that, 'cause they need to know it."

And after that first
meeting- Yeah â¦ exactly.

Yep, that's exactly where
we, where we all were.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

It was great.

I think that's what a lot of people
need to know is that God loves you.

He's not sitting, waiting to judge you.

Yes, He will be our judge, but He is
our judge, but that's not â¦ His most

important message is that He loves us.

That's exactly right.

Yeah.

And that He wants us to
know that we are important.

Mm-hmm.

We have i- we are, when we
think we're not, we are.

Mm-hmm.

We, if no- not to anyone
else, we are important to Him.

And so I would say to anyone that's
listening, if you're not connected,

you need to find a connection.

Even if it's not in a group, find you
a church friend that you can go out to

lunch with, you can do something with.

Yeah.

Um, just, but really to, you need to be
connected deeper- Yes â¦ than just that.

You need to- Uh-huh

you need to, to be involved in something.

Yeah.

No man is an island, and I think
people need to be, to remember that.

Like it, you have to have the
relationships- Mm â¦ here on Earth

As well as with, I mean, the most
important is with God, but just

the relationship with people, and
don't isolate yourself, you know?

I've been that person.

No, you know, I'm not gonna lie.

I mean, I went to church for a long time,
and that's what I did is I went to church.

'Cause when I first started
coming to First Assembly, I

didn't want to know anybody.

Mm.

Yeah.

I just wanted to be fed.

I was hungry.

I wasâ¦

I felt dead inside, and
I just wanted to be fed.

And, oh, Gods, the first time we
came was on a Wednesday night.

Felt like that was a safe night to come.

And not hardly anybody there maybe,
you know, in this big old church.

And fir- at first it was dark in the,
in the sanctuary, just barely lit up.

And we got through the front
doors and nobody recognized

us, and we got to sit down.

And just before we got into the sanctuary,
oh my goodness, I started crying.

I thought, "What in the world's going on?"

But I felt this presence- Mm-hmm â¦ that
I can't even explain at that time.

I know what it is now.

Yeah.

And I was crying, and Jay never
knew 'cause I never let him see.

And then we were sitting there, and
I was still wi- I mean, it was just

getting heavier and heavier on me.

And then all of a sudden one of the
members of the church came over to us

and shook Jay's hand and said, "Well,
I didn't know that was you, Sheriff."

And then I thought, "Oh,
well so much for that."

Yeah.

You know, everybody's gonna know now.

But that's where I felt
God's presence totally.

And then Brother Moore at the time,
he was just, he was ju- I, uhâ¦

We were supposed to be there.

Mm-hmm.

We didn't know where we were going
to go when we left our other church.

And then we left- Yeah â¦ our other
church not under bad feelings at all.

Yeah.

Uh, but anyway.

So then the following
Sunday, flocked again.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

And then I was asked if I would
like to go have lunch with different

ladies, and I said, "Well, I work.

I can't take off for lunch."

Phew.

I was good with that.

But I was serious.

I just needed to be fed.

I didn't wanna be involved in nothing.

I just needed to be fed.

And we have these kind of people
right now in our church that-

Mm-hmm â¦ just needs to be fed.

And then if they can get a smile
or a handshake from somebody and

make them feel like they're at
home, then we've done our job.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

But, um, it does take effort, and
don't think that it comes easy for me.

It looks easy to your eyes, but I
have to make myself get out there.

Once I'm out there, I'm okay.

Yeah.

It's like getting out of the bed.

Once you get in the shower and
get dressed, you're ready to go.

Yeah.

It's getting to the shower.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

Well, you do a great job at it.

And, um, we always like,
like to a- ask ourâ¦

Have you, have you listened
to any of our episodes yet?

Because- I've listened to three, I think.

Well, then you know.

I don't think Iâ¦

I tried to see, listen to the other,
but I didn't, couldn't get it.

Well, you know in the end we asked
everybody if you could go back and be, and

witness a real time Bible story, besides
the crucifixion and resurrection, um, what

would you want to see, like, firsthand?

If I w- was able to see it myself?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, just like fly on
the wall kinda thing.

You don't have to necessarily participate.

You don't have to
participate, just watch it.

Just to see it.

Real life.

Hmm.

It makes me wanna tear up.

That's okay.

I wanna be held by Jesus.

Mm-hmm.

I just want him to wrap
his arms around me.

I wanna feel that being in his bosom-
Yeah â¦ when he was walking on Earth.

Yeah.

And you'll get to do
that- Yeah â¦ one day.

That's what I want.

Yeah.

I hadn't th- thought about
the question, but- Yeah.

I wanna see- That's a good answer.

Yeah

I wanna see Jesus.

Yeah.

Because he died for me.

Yeah.

What a great thing.

Yeah.

None of us have that, a capability.

No.

Mm-mm.

Even if we wanted to do it for our kids,
I don't know how far we can go with it.

Yeah.

Well, one day we will, 'cause
we have the blessed hope.

But yeah, that was good.

Yeah.

That's good.

It was real good.

I know that you were apprehensive,
but I'm so, so glad that you came on.

Yeah, me too.

Me too.

Thank you.

You'll give courage to some other
people maybe who aren't there yet with,

like, "Oh, I don't have anything to
say," but you definitely have stuff

to say that people need to hear.

Yep.

I will say that if I come up to you,
God put me there, I can tell you that.

It's not that I just go everywhere
and shake everybody's hands.

I do, but it's notâ¦

I have been in service and my eyes was
s- stuck straight over to somebody.

I mean, I wasn't even looking for 'em.

Mm-hmm.

And I go right over there to 'em,
and they're either new or they've

got something going on in their life.

God is giving that to me.

And isn't that neat that, you
know, here you are thinking, "Okay,

I'm just gonna ease back in."

"I'm just gonna, you
know, tiptoe back in."

He's like, "No, no, no."

"However You guideâ¦

However You need to use me, that's fine."

And God's like, "Bet."

No.

That's, "I'm gonna use you."

"I'm going to do it."

Yeah.

If you will be willing, He will.

Exactly.

Well, I will also tell you, in coming
back- Mm â¦ in coming back to church that

first Sunday, I knew I needed to, and I, I
did it quickly right after we buried Jay,

to get, to get it out there, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So anybody that needed to say
anything to me, get the rawness-

Yeah I will tell you that even those
that I knew before all that- Mm-hmm

they loved me back into the church.

Yeah.

It's, it is so important.

It's so important to still,
like, just love people.

Come back to your family.

Yeah.

When they come up to you, and they rush
up there to you, and they hug you, and

they say, "I'm so sorry, and I'm so
glad to see you," and, and they justâ¦

This one lady I didn't even know,
the first Sunday I came back, this

one lady I hadn't even met yet.

Sh- something in Sunday school, I think I
went to Sunday school, she was teaching,

and she said s- I don't even know.

I don't even know.

I just went up there to her, and I,

I don't even remember what happened.

All I know is that she grabbed
a hold of me and hugged me

and started praying for me.

That was so awesome.

Mm-hmm.

Hurting people, they need you.

Yeah.

They do.

We need each other.

Yep.

Well, thank you for coming on, and weâ¦

I mean, I enjoyed it so much, and- Me too.

It was great.

Well, thank you.

Thank you.

So glad.

Thank you for inviting me.

I know now.

This is another stepping stone behind me.

It, it is.

Now you can do any podcast you want.

Now I've gotta start my own.

We heard your name.

You want some names you can invite?

Yes, yes.

Okay.

Absolutely.

Y'all listen.

It could be one of you.

It could be.

Answer the call.

Anyway, thanks, y'all.

Bye.

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