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The team from Force Technologies will be discussing all things obsolescence amongst themselves and with a mix of special guests from the industry.
00;00;16;16 - 00;00;35;00
Charlotte
Hello and welcome to another episode of Force Tech Talk Now. Today I consider myself extremely lucky because I've managed to get the boss to come along with me to do a podcast. Good morning. I say. Good morning, Karen. Thank you very much for joining me. Dragging you away from your many hats that you were.
00;00;35;02 - 00;00;39;10
Karen
So because it's early, I can go back and do other things.
00;00;39;13 - 00;00;58;29
Charlotte
But yeah, in all seriousness, I brought Karen here today because she has a principle that she's been working on and developing and we've been kind of talking to some people in the industry about it and getting some questions about it. So, so bring you along and we can talk a bit about it and yeah, maybe bring you back for another one one day.
00;00;58;29 - 00;01;02;04
Charlotte
But see if you see how this one goes. First one in the new studio.
00;01;02;10 - 00;01;28;12
Karen
Yeah. Let's see how, the principle develops. Yeah. I think the industry is changing. We know that, and we find that customers. And I'm sure you do as well. They're always getting caught out, aren't they? Yeah, but no matter how much obsolescence management or webinars or whatever is to they, they customer's always getting caught out very last minute.
00;01;28;15 - 00;01;46;03
Karen
It's it's bit last minute.com isn't it. Yeah. And it's so frustrating for them and for us. I mean we have our standards, product line, that we have, I know you're, you're speaking to a lot of customers about that, but I don't think people realize we do have that's.
00;01;46;03 - 00;01;48;09
Charlotte
Not a standard product as well as the customers.
00;01;48;12 - 00;01;58;02
Karen
Yeah, yeah. And it's it's a line that it's product we've been building for years and years and years. Yeah. This is our 40th year. Our both in June don't get. Yeah.
00;01;58;04 - 00;01;59;21
Charlotte
Get Jaz on the party planning.
00;01;59;23 - 00;02;22;08
Karen
Yeah, yeah. So, we've got the standard products that we've developed. Basically because of, of all the manufacturers that we've ever dealt with, you know, the animals of this world, you know, microchip, the cycles, you know, in to sell the you know, those are the people, you know, we have a Di and we just build standard form fitting function replacements.
00;02;22;11 - 00;02;49;06
Karen
So that's kind of where I started. And then I found out one of our core values is, is continuity. And, sustainability. And I was speaking to John Birt about it and customers need a continuous supply. Yeah. And especially in our industry, don't they, in the aerospace and defense industry, in other industries, you build something and and within 12 months you've got, you've got, something else.
00;02;49;06 - 00;03;15;24
Karen
Yeah. But in our industry we have to support it for 25 years. So you need continuous supply. Yeah. So I thought about it. And it's taken it a while and it's still in development. And anybody who's out there who wants to contribute and and help me, you know, please get in touch. If you're Charlotte, and I will be talking about it at the, rebound, events in March.
00;03;15;27 - 00;03;40;08
Karen
So there's five key elements of continuity principle. The first one being lifecycle management. Now there are lots of tools out there. There's lots of good companies. We can help you. We do lifecycle management, don't we? Because we have to make sure that our customers, you know, we can say we make an F2 product and then we can't make it obsolete in a year.
00;03;40;10 - 00;03;53;15
Karen
So we have to make sure that we have the Di stored. We have the packages stored, we have the design stored, but also that we have the engineering talent, which we do, to adapt if something does go wrong.
00;03;53;17 - 00;03;53;28
Charlotte
Yeah.
00;03;54;05 - 00;04;14;06
Karen
You know, because things happen, when things change overnight. Yeah, exactly. Especially in the world at the moment. So lifecycle management is really important not only for us but for customers and suppliers, other suppliers as well. The second one is the form fitting function, which is where our standard products come in.
00;04;14;06 - 00;04;14;17
Charlotte
Yeah.
00;04;14;23 - 00;04;26;26
Karen
Now, do you know more than I do on this one? But even our engineering, solutions that you're developing now with Ben, they are form fitting function replacements.
00;04;26;26 - 00;04;29;01
Charlotte
Yeah. The one to another form fit function.
00;04;29;03 - 00;04;43;01
Karen
Yeah. And would be more difficult. One of them is to do is you add in what goes and then we're still doing that. Is this the standard ones. So the E squareds the S ones, you know, the E problems. People still use your phones.
00;04;43;06 - 00;04;45;03
Charlotte
Yeah.
00;04;45;05 - 00;05;10;18
Karen
The second, third one is, is design continuity. Now again, we have to have all the, the records. We have to have the design principles. Now of the viewers might not think I've been in industry for two years. So and I've worked in manufacturing and I've worked in assembly, so I know the principles of assembly and the principles of making a chip.
00;05;10;21 - 00;05;20;27
Karen
But they have to be, continuous. And one thing that was happening over the last 2 to 3 years is a lot of the big guys, the shutting down the fabs.
00;05;21;00 - 00;05;21;20
Charlotte
Yeah.
00;05;21;22 - 00;05;24;16
Karen
So you're not getting that design continuity now.
00;05;24;16 - 00;05;38;18
Charlotte
You know. And it causes so many issues later down the line where people are trying to revive a product and you can't even do that because if the fab shuts down and they don't keep the paperwork or the design files, they just there's gone you just there's nothing you can do about it.
00;05;38;20 - 00;05;44;18
Karen
Exactly. Start from scratch. But yeah, you have to start re-engineering it. But that's not continuous design.
00;05;44;20 - 00;06;08;18
Charlotte
No, no. I think also on the design continuity is a lot of conversations that sales and engineering will have with customers, because a lot of the time when they're working on products that are so old or have gone obsolete, so, so long ago, a lot of the time, no one in currently working on this project knows why certain decisions were made on the design or, you know, certain modifications were made to a chip or a board.
00;06;08;22 - 00;06;22;29
Charlotte
You know, even those documentations can be lost. So it is yeah, it's very important for design continuity that the paperwork aspect to even noting down the decisions of, okay, why did we make this decision for this design at that time. Yeah. So yeah it's so important.
00;06;22;29 - 00;06;45;13
Karen
Yeah. I remember years ago we made a chip and it was an arrow chip and it was an RGM 3182. Okay. And this is 25 years ago. And we were putting it in a little El-Sisi and we had the die. That was an issue. But every time we put the die in the package, it just I couldn't get the bonds.
00;06;45;16 - 00;07;11;02
Karen
The bonding was in the right place. And I struggle and I struggle. And in the end, what I did was I went back on the old designs paperwork. At that time, I dug out all the design paper I could, I researched it, I went, I went back to, to the original manufacturer. Eventually I found the engineers in China and I spoke to him and he said, you look, you're looking at a different wrong angle.
00;07;11;08 - 00;07;33;08
Karen
What do you mean? The wrong angle is die goes in the pocket. But no no no no no. If you turn it up, you know, in less than a millimeter. That way the bonds will work. Will work. Yeah. And it did. Well, there you go. Yeah. I was supposed to have some of those chips. But that is an example of it had to be the same way he did it.
00;07;33;08 - 00;07;34;17
Karen
Otherwise it wasn't going to work.
00;07;34;18 - 00;07;51;25
Charlotte
Yeah. And what would you have done if you didn't find him? I mean, we've we've done that on forced projects where you find the old engineer that's in retirement and, you know, but only they know what you know, why something was done in a certain way, or like why it was programed a certain way, use a certain software or or bond out it just.
00;07;51;25 - 00;07;54;06
Charlotte
Yeah, but what do you do if you can't find them?
00;07;54;06 - 00;07;55;11
Karen
Well, that's the problem, isn't it?
00;07;55;12 - 00;07;56;16
Charlotte
You need to write it down.
00;07;56;16 - 00;08;19;02
Karen
Yeah. You stick to continuity principle. The fourth one is supply chain assurance. Now. Again, it frustrates me because you need to have a, It's all about relationships. You need to have a continuous good supplier. Okay? No point in dotting about.
00;08;19;05 - 00;08;20;06
Charlotte
When you need when you.
00;08;20;06 - 00;08;42;15
Karen
Need them, because that doesn't build up trust. It doesn't build up loyalty. And it doesn't give you the assurance that that supplier is actually going to do what you've asked them to do. And, and quite rightly so. I mean, if you're just going to dip in and out every three years and ask for products, they've got lots of other customers that are that you're going to work with, you are more loyal.
00;08;42;15 - 00;08;43;22
Charlotte
Yeah.
00;08;43;25 - 00;09;00;20
Karen
And unfortunately, there are a lot of companies that don't think like that. So I know we had the big vendor reduction and then we had allocation and everybody put it up. But again, allocations because you didn't plan for it. And I know you can't plan really for allocation, but you kind of can.
00;09;00;25 - 00;09;02;12
Charlotte
If you're a small company, you can.
00;09;02;14 - 00;09;22;16
Karen
Mark them off and put it in other platforms. But yes, I mean, he, he, he, he's very good at forecasting stuff. If you actually, you know, some of his reports, you know what? He's predicting the AI situation, you know, using all the memory that's going on in the next 18 months, we're going to have this problem again.
00;09;22;18 - 00;09;41;00
Karen
I digress. But supply chain assurance is knowing what they do, making sure they've got, you know, the right thing for you because it's not always a good fit. You know, you might not get on with somebody. I've had that in the past. I've had to say, you know, this isn't working. This isn't working.
00;09;41;00 - 00;10;03;11
Karen
You don't like me. I don't like you. Let's just call it a day. Like being a divorce lawyer. But you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the final one is is. Which is really important. Is the legal, certification, conformity. There's so many regulations and quality standards now, and I'm sure you know better.
00;10;03;14 - 00;10;18;23
Karen
Can, sit here next time and talk to you about that. But we have to be compliant, especially in our industry. We have to be compliant. But you have to keep those up is no point in just saying. Well, I've got the certificate and, you know.
00;10;18;25 - 00;10;20;08
Charlotte
I've tick the box and I'm good.
00;10;20;08 - 00;10;28;20
Karen
So you've got to if you're going to walk, talk the talk, then walk the walk. That's what I say. And if you're going to say what you're going to do, then do it.
00;10;28;27 - 00;10;54;15
Charlotte
Yeah. Think also on that point, there are lots of people in the industry doing really good things around the standards. And I am in particular internationalized you of obsolescence management. They're doing more. Yeah. And they're doing a lot around developing the standards and kind of updating the standards and always evolving them, or looking at how they could be evolve so that people can continue to comply to them in the best way possible or in, you know, the current day.
00;10;54;15 - 00;11;01;27
Charlotte
So yeah. Yeah. There. Well, well getting there with the but yeah, with all your principles and the elements of that principle, it's.
00;11;01;29 - 00;11;20;27
Karen
Yeah. Well I'm, I'm hoping I mean you know, that's, that's the way we work. I'm, I'm sure other people, other suppliers work the same way. Yeah. I'll be interested to hear any comments on that from them. If they interact, and see how it fits in. So thanks for them talk about it because I'm really excited I, I, I.
00;11;20;29 - 00;11;31;27
Charlotte
Like it so I can tell. Yeah, I can always comes into the office on a Monday, says I've had a good idea or I've had, you know, a refinement of the of the principle. I always say, okay, well, come on, let's talk about it.
00;11;32;00 - 00;11;34;10
Karen
I did that yesterday and I said, I've got really good idea.
00;11;34;10 - 00;11;41;04
Charlotte
You all went, oh no, but it was a good idea. Yes. Thought it was a very good idea. We were all approved for it.
00;11;41;04 - 00;11;42;14
Karen
So yeah, eventually.
00;11;42;21 - 00;11;51;15
Charlotte
But yeah. Thank you very much for coming with Karen. So yeah, we'll see if we get any questions or we can bring you back on at some point if we can follow you away from you busy times.
00;11;51;17 - 00;11;55;16
Karen
I can do that to talk about content. Content you can support. I'll turn up every time.
00;11;55;21 - 00;12;02;26
Charlotte
Okay. Well, you've got that on record, so she'll have to come back. But thank you very much for tuning in and we'll see you on the next episode.