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Laces Out Loud is an NWSL and women’s soccer podcast about the game on the field and the forces shaping it off the field. The show blends match analysis, supporter passion, and bigger-picture conversations about player welfare, league growth, media coverage, business, technology, and soccer culture. We are here for the goals, the tactics, and the chaos - but also for the questions that determine whether the women’s game can grow with the ambition, care, and investment it deserves.
So, yeah, what's what is moneyball?
Pamitha:On first blush, you hear moneyball and you think, yes. I want some moneyball. Right? Like, that sounds great. Right?
Pamitha:Welcome back listeners to another episode of Laces Out Loud. I am Pammatha, and as always, I am joined by my cohost,
Gurushabd:Hey, Pammatha.
Pamitha:How's it going?
Gurushabd:I'm doing great.
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:I'm having a good morning. I went to Costco, though, for two things and came out with a whole shopping cart. Oops.
Pamitha:Yeah. That's a that is always what happens. So what what did you what did you walk away with that you didn't anticipate going in for?
Gurushabd:You know, a lot of winter clothes.
Pamitha:I mean, that's fair.
Gurushabd:The deals looked yeah. The deals looked good. I now live in a place that has seasons, so I need, you know, winter clothes now. That's not just a hoodie.
Pamitha:Yeah. No. I get it. I've always lived places that have seasons, and so it's it's funny. It's not something that I've ever had to think about before, but, yeah, you're right.
Pamitha:Growing up, we had like the winter closet. Right? Like that's where like all the winter stuff was. It was like in this one closet, and then so we had our coats there, our boots there, and like that was just the place we had to go to. Have you figured out storage solutions yet for your seasonal
Gurushabd:wardrobes? Not yet. This concept's very new to me. I came from Arizona. We had one wardrobe.
Gurushabd:You didn't take anything out. Yeah. Dude, before I moved here, I was chatting with people. I'm like, what do you wear in the Pacific Northwest? I was like, I don't know how to do rain.
Gurushabd:I just don't understand. It wasn't that hard once I got up here, but beforehand, I had no clue what I was getting into.
Pamitha:Well, I look forward to those updates. And the good news is it's just it's just another opportunity to create additional style concepts. Right? Like
Gurushabd:Yeah. It's been fine.
Pamitha:That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, you know, speaking of going someplace and coming back with something unexpected, oh, hey. There were a couple of outcomes this weekend in the NWSL season that were not expected for some and very welcome for others. We're We're gonna dive into all of that.
Pamitha:We're also gonna give our update on the, golden boot race as well as a milestone goal scorer out in Seattle. And then more coaching news, the carousel continues to spin, and then we dive into whether the moneyball approach is something that can be applied to soccer. Good news, you know, we are two really huge baseball fans, right? We love the sport of baseball, so it's gonna be a great competition.
Gurushabd:Should talk about baseball every episode.
Pamitha:So far, we're the last two,
Gurushabd:so Yeah.
Pamitha:Are we pivoting from a secret food baseball podcast?
Gurushabd:Oh, listeners, we are not.
Pamitha:Okay.
Gurushabd:One of us one of us makes fun of baseball anytime we can get, so Yeah. Good news for you guys. Yeah. We'll stick to soccer. We'll sprinkle it in when it applies.
Pamitha:Yes. Well, week 21, the NWSL season is able to purchase alcohol legally, and there are a couple of teams that really needed that this weekend, either for recovery or perhaps inspiration across the board. I'm just gonna come out and say it.
Gurushabd:Yeah.
Pamitha:Way to go, Boston. Good job. That was that was a w. I don't there's no excuses. That's that's not true.
Pamitha:There's lots of excuses Washington can make for losing three o at home, dropping four out of the last five games at home. I'm not gonna make them. That was a tough game. We did not play well. Boston, I think, surprised us with their physicality, their depth.
Pamitha:It was really impressive. It's I had forgotten that they are at the bottom of the table, right? And, you know, wanting to snarkily remind them of the standings just didn't feel right, like, just wanna give them their credit. They they took it to us, they took some decent shots, we sorry. They they weathered some decent opportunities from Washington.
Pamitha:We just didn't play our best game. We looked lost almost the entire match. And if you recall, it's sort of how I felt if we played out in Portland, right, like the first half, we looked lost, and then we crawled back, and so I was hoping that we would have regained some of our footing, but Washington's dealing with a lot of injuries. We've lost Kate Wiesner for the year. Ashley Hatch was healthy and and was able to play again today, but we're still knocked up knocked up, we're still
Gurushabd:Oh, I hope not.
Pamitha:We're still knocked around a bit and need to recover. But I don't know if you saw any of that match, that was a rough go for the Spirit.
Gurushabd:I just saw the highlights, and as we were talking about earlier, there wasn't too many there. No. But that was tough losing it at the end. Yeah. Those were some late goals, some good opportunities by them, but it was yeah.
Gurushabd:Didn't look good. There was something in the air Sunday, though, because the Portland Chicago match was also unexpected.
Pamitha:That's right. Portland, with all everything to play for, all the momentum, still trying to push, they managed a one one draw at Chicago that was the definition of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. What did Chicago do there?
Gurushabd:So in the second minute of stoppage time, ninety two minutes in, Taylor Wood ties the game, and Chicago earns themselves another point. And Portland had other chances during that game. They just didn't put it in, which just shows you how danger it is to sit one zero during the whole game and not continue to push. So that was a crazy outcome for Portland.
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:And I hope Chicago can get to 20 points this season.
Pamitha:Yeah. You know, you know, negative 40 goal differential is still historic, and this doesn't this doesn't improve that. But that one point probably means a lot. Yeah. And Portland, they did this at a home.
Pamitha:Right? Now this is two two times this season that the home field advantage in Portland has not seemed to impact the outcome as it had earlier in the season and certainly last year, and, that's I know the fans in Portland, they're gonna take this personally.
Gurushabd:They're
Pamitha:gonna they're gonna take it out on the on the team next week.
Gurushabd:Yeah. And we'll talk about this later, but hopefully, don't make a rash decision and just fire their coach.
Pamitha:It's that's that's in vogue, right?
Gurushabd:It is. Yeah. Very chic right now.
Pamitha:They're traveling to Orlando on this Saturday to play, so, you know, they'll they'll have to wait to recover their home field advantage, and but they gotta get ready for Orlando. That's gonna be a tough match.
Gurushabd:That'll be a good one.
Pamitha:Yeah. Well And Well, go ahead.
Gurushabd:Oh, another game watching this, past weekend where I was confused with that kind of scary one nil score line, was San Diego versus North Carolina.
Pamitha:Mhmm.
Gurushabd:San Diego got a goal in and then kinda slowed the game down. And I was like, North Carolina can attack you at any moment. Like, yes, you are controlling the game, but you're not putting more goals in. And you're at a very dangerous score right now, and you're not attacking like you were when you got that goal. And so I thought that was pretty interesting because North Carolina, they did end up scoring.
Gurushabd:And, luckily, San Diego already had one other goal in, so it's two to one. But sitting at that one nil score line and teams pulling it back, I just I can't get behind that.
Pamitha:Yeah. No. The in other sports, when when you go into that sort of, like, prevent mode, it's inevitable that you're not going to do you're not gonna do it. So if you you're not preventing the other team from scoring. You're preventing yourself from winning.
Gurushabd:Yeah.
Pamitha:I'm I'm sure there's gotta be a equation out there about balancing effort, energy when you know you have it, but to your point Yeah. North Carolina. North Carolina can score whenever they wanted to. And they being near clawed back. Right?
Pamitha:Like, the Mhmm. So San Diego ends up winning two to one, and it it easily could have been two to two. I think, you know, North Carolina, this we had talked about this last week, like, this was going to be an opportunity for North Carolina to show the league who they really are. I walk away from this game thinking, they still haven't figured it out yet. Like, they're still not as elite as they they're Yeah.
Pamitha:That there's they they're they're not elite yet, but they can get there.
Gurushabd:Which peaking coming into playoffs is where you wanna be. So if they can get there, they have a few games left Yeah. And keep their playoff spot. Yep. They could be dangerous coming into playoffs.
Pamitha:Yep. Well, we haven't seen we'll get to the standing risers and fallers. We haven't seen change in, in who the top eight are, but we did see your Seattle reign holding on to the eighth seed with a two nothing victory over Bay. How do you feel Seattle fared?
Gurushabd:I thought they played great. It's exciting to see them actually attack this season and not just play defense most of the game like they were last season. And they attack, you know, sending balls over the top of defense, through balls, and it was really exciting. Poor Bay. I feel like Bay, Boston, they're both down there, like, almost getting it.
Gurushabd:And so maybe if we just give them a, you know, another season, they might get up into the, you know, top eight list. But they have some talent there. They're just not finishing.
Pamitha:I think there's a group of maybe 10 to 12 teams that might be interchangeable year over year. And then there's a top four that seem to consistently always be in the top half of the league. Kansas City has been that. We know their recent struggles. They only managed a two two tie against Orlando.
Pamitha:That was also an exciting game to watch, but as a result, they fell slightly in the standings. Angel City in Denver, talk about Denver still showing up. Goalapalooza, three three draw
Gurushabd:in That that game was exciting.
Pamitha:Yes. That was that was fantastic. It felt like it was only fair that it ended in a draw, the way that every that both teams played. But from a spectator perspective, oof, we should we would have loved to see loved to have seen a a a team walk away with a w there.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Depending which way you go.
Pamitha:Yeah. That's good.
Gurushabd:Oh, that that game was so exciting. That's a replay worth watching.
Pamitha:Yes. Okay. Yeah. It aired on ION, so for those of you who have a DVR do DVRs exist anymore? I think they're, like, built in to, like, short platforms.
Pamitha:Well, I'm old. What are gonna do? Don't forget to t set your TiVo to channel four. Yeah. Make sure your rabbit ears antennas are so you get good reception.
Gurushabd:Just pop in your VHS tape
Pamitha:Yes.
Gurushabd:And record it. Actually,
Pamitha:Be Matt kind was of rewind.
Gurushabd:I was figuring out, like, how can I watch a game if I didn't catch it real time? And Matt was saying, Oh, we'll just play it on the TV. We'll get the camcorder out and record set it on the table to record the TV on the camcorder.
Pamitha:Oh my gosh. That's
Gurushabd:bootleg it.
Pamitha:Yes. Oh, man. I mean, I've never done that, of course, but that's that's Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's awesome.
Pamitha:Yeah. That was a fantastic match. Gotham, Louisville, we said it was a good healthy game for Gotham. Two to one walking away with a win. Louisville's gonna figure it out, or they're not.
Pamitha:We'll wait have to wait and see. Utah, one nothing over Houston, staying exactly where they are. Well, actually, bowling rising again in the standings, but still staying in the playoff hunt and Mhmm. Who did we miss? That's it.
Pamitha:That's that's the week's action. It was a healthy week 21.
Gurushabd:It was. It's it's exciting.
Pamitha:Yeah. And I'd mentioned risers and fallers. So the top two remain the same, Gotham number one, Washington number two, Gotham extending its point lead over Washington, could not gain ground with that loss to Boston. In third place, rising a spot is Utah, swapping with San Diego who is now in fourth. North Carolina, it's right right smack in the middle at five, still within striking distance.
Pamitha:At six, Portland regains their seating, Kansas City drops to seven, and there's Seattle in the eighth spot. I think making the case that they are the team to catch. I know that I had said, I still don't have a lot of confidence in Portland, I still don't know how to articulate exactly why. I think that they are the other more vulnerable team in the top eight. We'll see what happens.
Pamitha:Denver is coming on hard. So like right now, the the bottom half is Angel City, Denver, Orlando, Houston, Racing sorry, Orlando, Houston, Boston, Racing, Bay, and Chicago. Of those, we agree. Right? Angel City and Denver are most likely to break in.
Pamitha:Do you think Orlando has an outside shot too?
Gurushabd:I mean, I think they always have a shot having Banda on the field, you know, if she stays healthy. But it's gonna be hard with Angel City and Denver. Well, it's only a point off between Denver and Orlando.
Pamitha:Yeah. But that point really Or It it it matters a lot, and I think Denver has a game in hand. They've only played 23 games. Orlando's played
Gurushabd:23 games.
Pamitha:Same thing with Angel City. They played 23 games.
Gurushabd:Same with Seattle. We have a Wednesday game
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:This week to catch up against Angel City, actually.
Pamitha:Yeah. It's gonna be So I think that's a big
Gurushabd:So that'll be a big game to watch on Wednesday for these playoff points.
Pamitha:Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. I you know, it's again, it's a shame that that Denver Angel City match, there's a lot on the line there in terms of getting into that that eighth spot. Yeah.
Pamitha:So Angel City, Seattle, obviously, that's gonna be a big matchup. San Diego, Kansas City, this coming week, also big. Portland, Orlando, I think it's important for Portland. Orlando is still trying to make up ground. The game that I think I and everyone is looking forward to is the North Carolina Courage taking on Gotham FC at home in North Carolina, Saturday evening, 06:30 eastern.
Pamitha:It's avail watching on ION for those of you who have that package. And if you don't know where to find it, check out the shescores. App.
Gurushabd:Oh, yeah.
Pamitha:Yeah. She scores app.
Gurushabd:So besides just playoff points and being in that hunt for home field advantage, what else are we gonna be watching for that game?
Pamitha:Oh, I don't know if you've heard, but goal watch 2026. Ashley Sanchez has scored her nineteenth goal of the NWSL season, placing her pew pew pew pew pew, goal behind the record set by Tamochawinga. Ashley Sanchez, she's the greatest gal in history. From the town of Cary, she's about to set the scoring record. Yeah.
Pamitha:No.
Gurushabd:Can we see a hat trick? Maybe not against Gotham.
Pamitha:No. But how cool would that be? Ashley Sanchez laying claim to one of the greatest NWSL seasons ever at home against the team that currently has the all time leading scorer in the NWSL, Sam Kerr. Regular season scorer, Sam Kerr, that'd be great. I think we're pulling for her.
Pamitha:I will say a poll of fans at the Washington Spirit game who all are invested in Ashley Sanchez despite the fact that she plays for North Carolina now, There's agreement that in the past, the scoring records and chases, even, like, most recently by Chewinga, had got a little bit more attention, and a little bit more fanfare, and for some reason, doesn't seem to be the same buzz for Sanchez. I don't I don't know why. I don't think it's intentional. I think it's partly because it's North Carolina, they haven't has they haven't been as relevant as Kansas City or Orlando has in the past couple of years. And I think there's this superseding storyline about Ashley Sanchez's national team call up.
Pamitha:And so you get you start with, oh, she's leading the Golden Boot, and then very quickly pivot to all these other topics.
Gurushabd:Mhmm. And so That's true. That's true.
Pamitha:Yeah. I hope she sets it, and I hope she gets the recognition she deserves. Like, it's this is long overdue.
Gurushabd:Yeah. So currently, the record is hold by Tim Wachewinga. She scored 20 goals in 25 games in 2024. And we have six games left regular season. Five?
Pamitha:Six. Actually, it was seven games. We were both wrong.
Gurushabd:Yeah. So he's gotta break it.
Pamitha:I
Gurushabd:hope But by how much is my question. I hope she puts up a 30 many goals? Oh.
Pamitha:Saying. Put it really out of reach, Ashley. And then come back and do it again.
Gurushabd:I mean, when you're already there, that's the way to do it with this many games left.
Pamitha:Yeah. I I think I was very glad that she got the goal for North Carolina this past weekend, I think, to keep up momentum, because otherwise, again, it's a story that might get buried. So good on her. All eyes will be on that game, for sure. But there's another milestone goal scored this past weekend, your very own Sofia Huerta or Seattle.
Gurushabd:Oh, captain. Oh, captain.
Pamitha:You're stand I see you standing on a desk right now saluting. It's fantastic. Yeah. Well, she just scored her fortieth NWSL regular season goal, and that puts her in elite company. She becomes only the sixteenth player in NWSL history to score 40 goals or more.
Pamitha:Hey, I'll just go down the list if for those of you listening. One, Sam Kerr, that's 79 goals. Lynn Biendolo, that's 70. Those are the top two. Christine Sinclair, 66.
Pamitha:Alex Morgan, 60. Ashley Hatch, 59. Debina, 59. Jessica McDonald, 54. Sofia Wilson, 53.
Pamitha:Megan Rubino, 51. Jess Fishlock, 50. Kristen Press, 49. Sydney Larue, 48. Marta, 46.
Pamitha:Te Machuwingo, 44. Carly Lloyd, 43. And Sofia Huerta, 40. Good job, Sofia. Well, it is another week and another coach firing in the NWSL.
Pamitha:The the Houston dash have let go Fabricio Gatraat, their head coach Mhmm. Twyla Kilgore, their technical director. This Yeah. Comes in the wake of other high profile terminations in the NWSL. Ursha, but who have we seen so far this year?
Gurushabd:So we've seen Chicago fire their coach. Angel City let go of their coach, and still the one that baffles me is Orlando Pride letting go of Seb. And then, of course, non coaching staff, we've seen the current just let go of Loud Co. And Chicago let go of Richard Fuez, their general manager. I was looking through this Houston coach firing.
Gurushabd:Yeah. And I read they have fired gone through seven coaches in four years, including interim coaches.
Pamitha:Wow. Wow. That's, What? Dang. If they, you know, they fire the interim coach now, they can go over that two for one special.
Pamitha:That's crazy.
Gurushabd:I mean, at some point, you gotta look at something else, right? Not the coach, maybe the call is coming from somewhere else.
Pamitha:Yeah. It's funny, right, because if you look at successful teams, there was an article in The Athletic earlier this month by Tamara Griffin, and I think they really provide voice to what a lot of us have been saying for a while, which is we, as women's soccer fans and the NWSL and the clubs that make up the NWSL, ought to consider what new markers of success look like. And it may be fashionable in other sports, including men's soccer to just, like, scapegoat the head coach. That doesn't mean that's what they should do in the NWSL just because it applies in one in a different sport. And, you know, this is their article was on the heels of the Seb Hines' termination.
Pamitha:Someone who was a mainstay in the Orlando community, not just the Orlando pride. Right? Like, it was a player for Orlando FC, scored the winning goal scored the winning goal or scored the first goal after the horrific Pride Nightclub attacks in Orlando? Like, really someone who is embraced in the community. And as a fan of another team, not Orlando, I have to hate him, but gotta respect him, right?
Pamitha:His termination makes doesn't make any sense to me either, Gurus Chabad, I'm with you. I look at Houston, and I think it's a little bit more justifiable based on the on the past track record, but then learning that they've gone through seven coaches in four years, you're you're right. Like, there's a cultural issue there. There's a cultural issue there. There is something that the team is not really getting right in terms of what their mission and vision are, and it shows.
Pamitha:Right? It shows when you can't retain coaches who can come in there and set the tone and set the culture, and then create the environment for success.
Gurushabd:Yeah. So either you didn't hire correctly the first time, or you're just giving up too early. Or as you were saying, you don't have that unified approach with throughout the whole team, meaning the coaching staff, the front office, the owners, everyone with the same vision to be able to implement that. If everyone's doing their own thing, yeah, you might not have good outcomes. Or if you're not giving the coach the direction of you wanna go in, things aren't gonna work out.
Gurushabd:So something isn't matching up over in Houston.
Pamitha:Yeah. We feel that in in other teams too. It's not just Houston. I think we've commented about how Chicago there seems to be misalignment between the ownership goals and what the product is on the field. And and I think there we will likely not know until more stories come out around these
Gurushabd:Mhmm.
Pamitha:Transactions. But it does feel like there is something more deeply rooted that is just not quite yet surfaced publicly in Houston and in Chicago. I think we talked about it a little bit with Angel City in the transitions that they've been going through as well, like, a little bit more documented some of the cultural stuff for Angel City.
Gurushabd:In Chicago, I just keep hearing, oh, they don't even reach the salary cap. They're not paying players as much as they should be. And I was like, what's happening there? Like, every other team, you know, has trouble staying under the salary cap, and they wanna get talent. They wanna pay their players well and take care of them.
Gurushabd:What's happening in Chicago? Well, a few months ago, they did fire a guy, Richard Fez, their general manager, who had a moneyball approach. All the articles that I read, he talked about moneyball, which I had to refresh myself on. And I know you can give us a better rundown on that. So now we know what was going on in Chicago and them not paying their players.
Gurushabd:So, yeah, what's what is moneyball?
Pamitha:On first blush, hear moneyball and you think, yes, I want some moneyball, right? That sounds great. It's going to be amazing. Well, those of you who don't know, moneyball is a term that was coined to reflect the management practices of the Oakland Athletics of Major League Baseball. Don't turn off the podcast.
Pamitha:It is a great book titled Moneyball by Michael Lewis. This came out in 2004, 2003, somewhere in that.
Gurushabd:It's a fine year.
Pamitha:Lots of things happening back then. So it early part of the two thousands it came up because it chronicles decisions that the Oakland Athletics made in 2001 and 2002. The without getting into too too much detail about like the book and baseball, the concept of money ball is a management principle that states you are able to find value in talent based on utilizing, underappreciated analytical tools. So what does that mean? It means that if you are a baseball team, you would think, I just wanna get the person who hits the most home runs on my team.
Pamitha:I want the pitcher that gets the most strikeouts on my team. I want the person that gets the most hits on my team. You could be forgiven for wanting that. Right? It turns out that there's a little bit more complexity to that, and that maybe a player who hits fewer home runs and gets on base more even if it means they walk instead of getting a hit, actually provides more value to your team when you calculate how what your expected wins are for the season.
Pamitha:The statistical analysis that led to what we what we term money ball is not new. It was born in the seventies, and there has been a really substantial and public tension between folks who are viewed as traditionalists in sporting analysis and player scouting, and who are people who are deemed the analytics people very derisively. Right? Those are the people who who look at the numbers and say, oh, well, I know you think you want us to hit the ball as hard as you can to hit a home run, but what you really should do is bunt and try to get on base. And the average fan will say, what's more exciting to go hit the home run, right, it's not what everybody wants to do, they wanna score.
Pamitha:And again, the analytics say, well, no, you have a greater likelihood of scoring if you get on base. This has pervaded many different sports to varying degrees of success. It should be pointed out that the Oakland Athletics, despite the fact that they implemented money a moneyball quote strategy, they've never won the world series since 1989, I think. So the money well approach has worked, but it has really only worked when teams are able to also pay their players once the value of the player is established. So basically, and this is this is now me providing with sort of like my own individual opinion and analysis, and like, I'm sure there's bodies of work out there, and people can tell me that I'm I'm wrong, but the Oakland Athletics did not have money to pay for players.
Pamitha:They are not the New York Yankees, they are not the Los Angeles Dodgers, they don't have the most money in the world. So they were forced into a situation of how do we compete? Well, we have to find players that provide the value that we can afford so that we're competitive, and we're not just blowing money on one really good player and eight others that just can't play the game. That's an extreme extreme way of saying it. But what happens is after a amount of time of performance, like, let's say that, you know, Oakland was right, they found five players that they can afford because everyone else in Major League Baseball undervalued them and didn't understand how they contributed just to winning games.
Pamitha:So they pay those players based on what they are allowed to they what they can afford based on a low valuation because nobody else in the league wants them. But then they win, then they perform, then their value increases. Once the value once their value has increased, Oakland is still unable to pay them, so those players then go to bigger market clubs that can afford to bring them on, and then go on to varying degrees of success. Famously, this approach was utilized by the Boston Red Sox in 2003, 2004, 2005, when they won their first World Series in eighty six years. But the reason they were able to do that is because they were first able to identify players who provided value towards winning that were underappreciated, and then they were able to pay them.
Pamitha:And that's how they were able to sustain success.
Gurushabd:Yeah. So in Chicago, they just got their up and coming player, Jamiese Joseph, who's an all star, and they let her go. Yeah. And she probably wanted to go. Again, because, yeah, maybe she'll make more and she'll win more, in Utah.
Gurushabd:So they had that talent. She's a great player, she's young, and she's gone.
Pamitha:Yeah. And so if if Chicago what's the name of the guy who doesn't work there anymore?
Gurushabd:Richard Fez or Fuse, I don't know.
Pamitha:Gotcha. So Richard look, clearly he got the job for a reason, so I don't wanna dog him too badly. But utilizing the term moneyball as the equivalent of being cheap isn't moneyball. Right? Moneyball is identifying the players, and then once you've identified them, you still have to pay them, you still have to retain them at some point.
Pamitha:So to your point, Chicago landing their their sort of landmark young player and then not doing what's necessary to keep them, that's not moneyball. That's just bad management. Right?
Gurushabd:Yeah. And all yeah. All the little whispers, rumors of, you know, ex players, you know, can be like, there's teams out there not even reaching the salary cap, not paying their players. You know, clearly, they were talking about Chicago. So they got that part wrong where they just didn't wanna put up the money to take care of their players.
Gurushabd:Yeah. You're gonna see them leave.
Pamitha:Yeah. And they're gonna leave, and they're gonna get paid elsewhere what they're worth. Right? That's the other thing too. Yeah.
Pamitha:There's always going to be a basement dweller, there's always going to be a team that isn't willing to pay, and in some ways, that's really important because need to have both ends of the market. Everybody can't oh, let me be careful. It would be wonderful if everybody made the same, but if everybody made the same amount of money, then you're not actually paying people what they're worth. Right? Not is worth the same amount of money, Because not everybody is worth the same to their team.
Pamitha:So for Chicago, I'm not saying good job Chicago, you're setting the floor. I'm saying there's always gonna be a floor. And then there's some teams that don't do enough to not be the floor. Right? Clearly, Chicago is an example of a team that doesn't understand I don't think they I don't think they understand their I don't think they understand their business model.
Gurushabd:Yeah. I don't think so. And, I mean, Mal Swanson, you know, once she gets back, are they really only keeping her because her husband plays for the Chicago baseball team?
Pamitha:Oh, it's yeah, Dan Dan's B. Swanson, yeah.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Who have I don't know who he is. But, yes, her husband. You know, she might just be there because he plays in Chicago, too. Otherwise, they could lose her.
Pamitha:Yeah. Maybe.
Gurushabd:Maybe now that this guy's gone, they'll change their approach.
Pamitha:Yeah. I don't I don't know. I I I hope so because the league is better when you have teams that are competitive. Right? And you don't and you just whether or not that's in a big market like Chicago or not, like, don't wanna have a team that is just so clearly going to be run over.
Pamitha:The thing I can't get around, and I've said this before, it's not like their roster is devoid of talent. Right? So like Yeah. They have a talented roster, at least on paper, have a talented roster. I don't know why they haven't been able to put it together, and then you have all these other management challenges.
Pamitha:There's a deeper question I have for you. Right? Because we talked previously about like the the repercussions of private equity coming into the NWSL, right? Well Mhmm. Part of the concern I think we had is private equity focused on short term versus long term investment or returns, right?
Pamitha:So, you know, I haven't seen Chicago's books. I don't know how profitable they are. I don't I don't think there's any NWSL team that's actually profitable. KC might be profitable, or they may be on trajectory. I know Michelle Kang said Washington is on track in the next eighteen months to be a profitable team, but, like, if if the ownership of the Chicago Stars has a different objective other than fielding a winning team, I think that is that is something that then we can judge them by.
Pamitha:Right? Like, we look at this choice. We look at the decisions. We look at the roster construction. We look at the trades, and we're like, this doesn't make any sense.
Pamitha:Don't they want to win? Don't they want to win the title? Don't they wanna be competitive? The answer is maybe. Maybe there's something else that is motivating the ownership stake, and that product on the field isn't actually as important.
Pamitha:And with the valuations of women's football teams rising and rising and rising and rising, there's a lot of opportunity to make short term money. And I don't know how many owners are like Michelle Kang
Gurushabd:Mhmm.
Pamitha:Who take that longitudinal view and say, we want to make these investments because we want growth globally, universally. We don't want to just make money in a short window. Right? Mhmm. So I don't know the answer to that question.
Pamitha:I just raised more questions there. I apologize.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Maybe they're just having a team so they can sell it, which is you know, then as a Chicago fan, like, how much do you do you have to stick with your team if the ownership isn't giving you anything back? Like, how invested do you need to be in the team?
Pamitha:Yeah. It's a great question. It's a great question. And fan trust is something that really matters because at the end of the day, fans are the backbone. Well, you would think fans are the backbone of the economic model.
Pamitha:I don't know if that's actually true in the NWSL. Right? Yeah. Because we don't you know, it's not like we're seeing 80,000 people show up, right, to support, like, concessions and and merchandise
Gurushabd:Right.
Pamitha:And like seats and and butts in seats, right? Chicago especially, right, they play at Northwestern Stadium, which is, I think, is like 5,000 people. So like, beautiful venue on television, terrible venue for
Gurushabd:Yeah.
Pamitha:Profitability. But I don't know what alternatives they have either. Right? Like, they have to be tenants somewhere. They're not gonna build their own purpose built stadium without private investment.
Gurushabd:Yeah. They've been having some stadium woes. Their previous plans, they haven't been going as planned.
Pamitha:Yeah. And unlike the European women's Super League, there is no parent organization for NWSL clubs. Right? It's and
Gurushabd:Mhmm.
Pamitha:So it's it's it is a lot of there's different considerations for venues for venue management that that other teams don't necessarily have to go through. Let us know what you think. What's wrong with Chicago?
Gurushabd:Yeah. And are you gonna, you know, stay a diehard fan, or, you know, are your eyes looking elsewhere if your ownership isn't giving you you know, if they're not giving their all.
Pamitha:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, this has been fun. Week 22, sure to be exciting.
Pamitha:Like I said, I'm I'm gonna be watching
Gurushabd:Yes.
Pamitha:North Carolina Gotham. You're gonna be watching Seattle. It's gonna be great.
Gurushabd:Yeah. Seattle Angel City, Wednesday. I forget who we play over the weekend. But, yeah, that Angel City, Seattle, and then Gotham, North Carolina are two to watch.
Pamitha:Let me look up who do you play over the weekend. You play on no. You don't play over the weekend. You got this game on Wednesday.
Gurushabd:Oh, we know.
Pamitha:Yeah. You got the game Okay. Midweek, and then you play Boston the week the week prior. Don't know where you're gonna get that makeup game in. Gotta be somewhere.
Gurushabd:Oh, wait. No. We play Angel City Wednesday, and then we play Denver on Saturday in Denver. That'll be rough. Yeah.
Gurushabd:Saturday, the nineteenth, we take on Denver. Oh, my god. Nice world right now. Doubleheader this weekend.
Pamitha:On the NWSL website, it is listed immediately below North Carolina Gotham, and I clearly just had a blind spot.
Gurushabd:Oh, so you're just like
Pamitha:Yeah.
Gurushabd:That's the one.
Pamitha:I saw that. I was like, oh, my caveman brain just turned off. I apologize.
Gurushabd:Yeah. So Saturday's an exciting game day.
Pamitha:Yeah. This is a big week for Seattle and a big week for Denver, because Denver also plays Wednesday. Mhmm. So this is this is gonna be key for both of you. Yeah.
Pamitha:And Angel City. Angel City's got their double up because they play Sunday against Utah. Okay. Alright. For the at the bottom Yeah.
Gurushabd:Big games.
Pamitha:Bottom of the playoff race is gonna be a a week that matters.
Gurushabd:And and you guys face Chicago. Washington Spirit versus Chicago.
Pamitha:Yeah. So I've learned my lesson.
Gurushabd:Hopefully hopefully, y'all will be, like, on notice.
Pamitha:Yeah. Yeah. I, I learned my lesson. I thought that we had a get well game against Boston. Oops.
Pamitha:And so I'm not gonna upset a Chicago team that just tied Portland. I hope we win. Obviously, I hope we win. We have friends that are going to that match. It should be good.
Pamitha:But, you know, again, what we've been talking about on paper, Chicago has a good team. So, gosh, I hope they don't find their groove against us. We'll see. It'll be good.
Gurushabd:We'll see. I I think the spirit will be looking for some an outlet after that loss versus Boston at the end of the game.
Pamitha:Yeah. I think everyone everyone's really angry. I don't know if you saw this, but Trinity Rodman left the game afterwards and flew to New York City to watch Yeah. Her boyfriend in the finals of the US Open tennis tournament, and got there, unfortunately, just as he was as he was losing, which is which is a bummer. It was a rough rough weekend for the Rodman household.
Gurushabd:Yes.
Pamitha:Yeah. That's it's fine. So, you know, no you know, I don't know I don't know the US Open is the last major on the tennis calendar, so hopefully, that's one less travel commitment for Trinity. But I'm amazed that at 24 I'm sorry. Let me rephrase this.
Pamitha:I'm not amazed that at 24, she could be in New York City till 04:00 in the morning, and then come back and practice and just be like a 100%. It's like, God, I wish
Gurushabd:Oh, yeah.
Pamitha:Like, to be that
Gurushabd:young I was telling, yeah, I was telling Matt that she did that, and he was like, Oh no. And I'm like, Yeah, but she's like under 25, so she's fine. He's like, Oh yes. Exactly. Exactly.
Gurushabd:You're fine. Yeah. I after.
Pamitha:Yeah. I remember when the calendar on me turned into 30, and I was like, woo hoo, we'll still go out till like 02:00 in the morning, show up for work at 08:00. No. No. No.
Pamitha:Lost that stamina. Well, father I know. Father or mother time comes for us all.
Gurushabd:Everyone, enjoy it. If you're in your twenties right now, early twenties, you know, you're not gonna have this stamina forever. So realize it and, you know, do what you need to do now.
Pamitha:Yes. Wear sunscreen and take care of your knees.
Gurushabd:Oh. Oh, yeah. The knees. Stretch.
Pamitha:Yes.
Gurushabd:Warm up before you go exercise. Yeah. You feel like you don't need to, but you do.
Pamitha:Yeah. You'll you'll thank us later. Well, I think that's all we got for this week. Thank you everybody for tuning in as always. We have a couple of really cool things that we're gonna be testing out and excited to share with you in the coming weeks before the playoffs.
Pamitha:And, yeah, if where can they find us on socials, Guru Shoppin?
Gurushabd:You can find us on Instagram at Laces Out Loud and now on Blue Sky at Laces Out Loud, and we will be adding more, soon.
Pamitha:Woo hoo. And, of course, if you'd like to email us, you can reach us at LacesOutLoudpod@Gmail.com. That is lacesoutloudpod@gmail.com. Thanks for listening everybody. Gurus Abad, take us out.
Gurushabd:Everyone, be kind, be good to each other, and from the fans for the game, we'll see you next time on Laces Out Loud.