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Meet Justin Chan, a Forbes' 30 Under 30 awardee whose groundbreaking tech invention could revolutionize healthcare as we know it. As the founder of Gense, Justin’s passion for positive impact and problem-solving is actualised through a palm-sized device that scans critical organs for disease in under a minute. His vision for a decentralized, accessible healthcare system is radical, but you'd never hear him say so.
As we navigate the implications of his tech post-pandemic, we explore its potential in both developed and emerging markets. Accessibility, affordability, and early detection of chronic diseases form the core of our discussion. Sprinkled through are personal anecdotes of being broke, meeting Obama and issuing bonds to a now-deposed Myanmar government.
As we navigate the implications of his tech post-pandemic, we explore its potential in both developed and emerging markets. Accessibility, affordability, and early detection of chronic diseases form the core of our discussion. Sprinkled through are personal anecdotes of being broke, meeting Obama and issuing bonds to a now-deposed Myanmar government.
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Visit our website to learn more about our work with Asia's leading tech startups.
Visit our website to learn more about our work with Asia's leading tech startups.
Creators & Guests
What is Unsensible - The Asian Startup Podcast?
BRAVE SOULS WANTED.
Failure almost certain. Attempting is unwise.
Far east adventure. Success is changing the world.
Join us on the Unsensible podcast where we talk to the Asian startups and their ecosystem partners who are intent on changing the world.
Jonathan Nguyen: Welcome to
another episode of the Untold
Podcasts, where we tell the
stories of founders and funders
and how they arrived at this
particular point in their
careers.
Today I have a wonderful guy by
the name of Justin Chan.
I'm going to let him do the
intro on himself, but a quick
snapshot of the things that he's
going to be embarrassed about
saying.
So 30 under 30s Forbes
magazine, we're going to ask him
a little bit of how he got
there, a cambridge graduate and
his sta rtup called Gense a
little over five years ago is
now just cleared a pre-A round
and they have a piece of
technology that is looking to
revolutionise how medical
diagnostics is done in a more
decentralised and possibly
remote healthcare situations.
Justin, hi, thank you for
coming.
Justin Chan: No, no, thanks for
having me.
Jonathan Nguyen: Yeah, I know,
it's a very cold day outside.
Justin Chan: It is you're in a
t-shirt.
Jonathan Nguyen: I'm wearing a
t-shirt.
It's warm in here.
That's what I keep telling
people.
Tell us a little bit more about
you, know yourself and how you
got here.
Justin Chan: Sure.
So I was always focused on
impacts.
Like we, I try a couple of
things before I eventually land
on Gense.
It's always about how we can
make real innovation to help
people and it was very organic.
We met up with friends, we
started this idea about
technology called EIT and then
we just organic grew from there
to see what makes the most
impact.
So it went from something with
an idea that we have something
medical, being well understood
for a number of decades to
something that we can put it
from the end stage patient to
something for every early stage,
and we grew the team.
From there, we got more
supporters, from there we do
more clients and that's a, you
know, fair, organic sense of how
we got here.
Jonathan Nguyen: Well, get me.
You were working on two
startups at the same time, right
, and on one of them you were
doing something quite
interesting.
Justin Chan: Yeah, so we we were
with the Myanmar government the
one that was, you know, the
past one, before the coup and it
was just opening up that
country and we went in to help
the government issue government
bonds that could have built up
small infrastructures like a
water, electricity and a village
level, and it was quite
interesting.
We got a four, four, three and
a third year of that.
So we get to meet a lot of
interesting characters.
We met Obama, quite a few
people from that as well, and we
started to make an impact.
And obviously there are
challenges as well.
Covid hit and then there's a
coup as well.
So that's something that was a
very interesting part, that we
did make some impact and then
we're hoping to go back to
eventually.
Jonathan Nguyen: So, like it
sounds to me, you like to take
Big problems and then bring it
closer to like how it's more
usable to people, right, I'm
seeing a theme here.
Justin Chan: Yeah, no, I think
those are the problems that are
worth solving, because if you
iterate, you can still solve a
big part of it.
You solve with something big,
and I think that that's where
most effort could go into, when
you have real innovation and you
can make sure it's a lot more
scalable.
And it's something that I would
view with the time going into
as well, because we would like
to think of ourselves as
innovators and if you want do
you want to innovate?
It's good to have a space that
you can actually make this
useful to most people.
So start with big ones, and
then it will make sense down the
line.
Jonathan Nguyen: So tell me a
little bit about the problem
you're trying to solve with
James.
Justin Chan: What's the issue?
It's accessibility.
So it's just healthcare.
I think even before COVID we
see strong sense of medical
system.
It's always overburdened before
COVID.
Everywhere in the world when
you have public healthcare
system, the wait is like a
couple of years.
It's not abnormal for
non-urgent patients and you
always see cases where people
get disease notification or they
found out quite late and then
there's a lot less they can do
about this and a part of it is
down to checkups being not
frequent enough, it's not early
diagnosed enough and then
there's just no risk factor that
you can look at.
And that's where we're trying
to get in.
We're trying to help with
something very affordable, very
convenient.
So you get tested quarterly
every half a year or even sooner
, and it has to be convenient
enough that we can bring it to
your home, bring it to your
offices, bring it to places in
elderly homes, community centres
, that not even requiring nurses
or highly trained medical
professionals to do it.
And that's how we can help with
the scalability and help with
the accessibility of it.
Jonathan Nguyen: Let's just
flash the device up on screen
here and then maybe you can talk
us through a little bit about
what the device does.
Justin Chan: Sure.
So the device is essentially
something that's palm-sized and
it connects to two things.
It connects to the internet,
where we do all the cloud
computing there, which feeds
back to the tablet for
surface-surveyor to actually do
the test and look at results.
There's that one side.
The other side, we have a belt
that we essentially wear around
the body part that we want to
scan.
So if it's lungs, we wear a
lower chest and then liver and
just above the bottom of the rib
cage and kidney, a bit lower,
and it's essentially a
one-minute scan.
We look at the electoral
properties of organs and based
on that we can tell, for example
, the severity of a fetal liver
tissue and the abundance of it,
similarly for kidney damages and
some of that as well, and we
benchmark all of this with
medical standards so that it's
something that could be
understood and used by medical
professionals as well, but at
the same time layman enough for
people to follow up with the
reports that we have, with the
advices that we have and
generally looking at how we can
reduce the risk sector and
improve the health as well.
Jonathan Nguyen: Okay, so you're
published as well, right, so
this is published research.
It's not some shady thing that
you know, some shady algorithm
that you know no one understands
.
This is proven tech.
Justin Chan: Yes, yes.
So so this big part of the
development process that we
really try to get right, and we
do have 10 professor partners
just in Hong Kong, with more
Overseas as well, and we publish
with them Did they put their
names on the paper as well?
And we use their patience.
They help us go through some of
the clinical trials and we're
published in nature cited
reports and, and you know, top
journals internationally as well
.
So those are online.
Jonathan Nguyen: So, from an
innovation standpoint, I feel
like you're at the beginning of
a disruptive cycle.
Almost you know Classic
Hayden-Christensen disruptive
innovation you take.
Take the giant supercomputer
that occupies Entire floor of
the university or entire
building, shrink it into a floor
, shrink it into one rack.
Shrink it into a home PC, shrink
it into now a watch.
Yeah, so so is that.
Do you think there's a
trajectory like like that that
you're on at the moment?
You've gone from very heavy
industrial, you know, next to
the bed in stage care device, to
something that fits in the size
of your hand.
Justin Chan: Yeah, no, that's
certainly it's not as well.
So Smaller size more convenient
, it's definitely a trend.
And then there's also one big
trend I think medically it's
very important as to policy
support as well.
So we do see the beginning of a
trend that the policy makers
are not just talking about it.
We were really trying to make
something happen now and and
that that's quite important, I
think I would have to push of
code fit with the openness of
perfect sector Players that are
more adaptive to digital changes
, and that that's what we see, a
beginning of that change as
well, because a medical industry
Inherently and they should be
quite conservative.
So, with everything going on,
there's a big push to us making
that change.
And you know on a policy level,
on a primary care level, that
we do need to do a lot more in
this space.
Jonathan Nguyen: Our whole
healthcare system seems to be
geared towards curing rather
than preventing.
Justin Chan: Yeah, but curing is
always one big part, because
that that's a dramatic point,
right, you cure a person and
then and then it's basically a
big life-changing event.
But I proof, preventive it's
certainly one big side out, even
with our generation.
We're seeing a lot of things
going on in here, especially
COVID as well people a lot more
health conscious.
So preventive certainly one way
that we will see the growth of
market.
Jonathan Nguyen: What do you I
mean?
To me this sounds like a
no-brainer.
The case, but you know as we
know, there are so many startups
out there that have no brainers
, and Yet they still can't
commercialize, they still can't
get to market.
What's the biggest hurdle
you've had in this whole process
?
Has it been the regulators?
As it been, what, what, what is
it?
Justin Chan: through all the
journey.
There are things that we do
need help with, like hiring,
like Financing.
We close our investment round
with all grants but one part
that was really quite big
struggle especially with medtech
where we need quite a lot of
R&D would be the cash flow
upfront.
So we had, luckily, quite a few
grants coming in from the
government from from the start
and it's been a sort of slowly
increasing.
But a part of the system's
requirements that you do need 12
to 24 months, even more, for
reimbursement.
So there are times that we do
have to somehow find the money
and pay people first or before
we can get Things back in.
So there was a good year or
more that's Aggregate in my
account and the company account.
We have like 400 bucks Hong
Kong for that process.
Jonathan Nguyen: Empathize with
that.
Justin Chan: Yeah, no, no but
but yeah, it works out and if
you go through that period and
you basically survive one big
part, that makes your Work a lot
more defensible.
Jonathan Nguyen: Yeah, that's it
.
So I have two comments on that.
First comment is you know you
either.
You know, looking at that, you
either have balls of steel or
laser focused vision.
Which one is it?
Justin Chan: You don't really
have a choice.
At that point I basically jump
into startups.
I always knew if I go into
corporate eventually I would
miss or would not have to start
my own thing as well.
So why not start early?
Well, an opportunity cost is a
bit lower.
You don't have to, you know,
worry about family or the
resources as much.
So it's really a dive into this
and we have to succeed.
So that brings us that focus
and basically, when you don't
have a choice, it would work out
.
It's more of that.
Jonathan Nguyen: Well, I think
for some people it's you don't
have a choice.
For other people, you know they
would say I could just give up
right and get a cushy
consultancy and do a consultancy
job.
Justin Chan: Well, it's
something that you would enjoy
doing as well.
So there's always a backup
pathway with you know our teams.
Actually, in background, there
are a lot of things that we
could do, but, at the same time,
whether you would be making as
much of an impact, whether you
would be creating something of
value that you can call your own
, whether you can dictate the
terms on how you drive your
innovation, have that as a
section when it actually happens
.
It's not something that you
might get as much in job and
that's, I think, that unites the
team a lot on in that aspect,
and that's probably one of the
main reasons we're still
sticking with this.
Jonathan Nguyen: So what's?
You know this technology around
for a while.
What was the trigger point?
Where, in societies at large,
that makes this solution
relevant today?
Justin Chan: So the entire
system with COVID is sort of a
wake-up call that we do need to
push a lot more into this and
there's a sense of survival from
both the public and private
sector side that we really need
to do something and there's a
real act on this, Rajan just
talk to make this happen.
Jonathan Nguyen: So you know
what's you know.
You're in Hong Kong at the
moment, right when to next?
Are these the types of things
you're looking at?
Justin Chan: Yeah, no.
So emerging markets yes,
definitely something that we do
need to tackle.
Right now we're in Hong Kong
because of the base here, but at
the same time, the next time
really is to build up that
confidence.
There's a very new technology,
so we're going for countries
that have a respectable
healthcare system in western
parts of the world that we can
deploy.
But at the same time with that,
there are a lot of groundwork
that we can already start doing
in emerging markets, Because
this is something that's a lot
more scalable and a lot more
affordable as well and it makes
sense for us to go there.
So it's definitely sort of
after we have that confidence
built up, we can simultaneously
start building those.
Us is something very interesting
.
So on a logical side, we really
should go in, and because it's
expensive, there are a lot of
healthcare problems that we
could solve with early detection
there and if we go to
traditionally non-medical
focused players, there will be a
lot of opportunities.
When we do go to medical
players, there are sometimes
considerations on whether this
is expensive enough and whether
they would make a big enough cut
to justify going in.
So that's really an interesting
part on how we should tackle
the system and sort of align all
the interests as well, Because
it's important in everywhere.
Jonathan Nguyen: It's wild.
That's a wild, wild answer.
We're not going to adopt this
technology because it's too
cheap.
Justin Chan: Yes, that's
feedback that we do get from
time to time.
Jonathan Nguyen: So are there
opportunities to look at,
obviously your New York and San
Francisco, because their doctors
want lots and lots of money to
deploy this.
But what about remote regions
in the US?
Do you see if there's a Walmart
there, like Walgreens or you
know, and they don't have all of
these other imaging technology
nearby, Is it a case to deploy
it there?
Is it a government purchase
that out at these locations?
Justin Chan: It could be both.
It could be a private sector,
it could be a public sector play
.
But the main thing, with every
country, every medical system,
it has to be complementary so
we're not trying to take
people's money off the table,
take away their revenue.
So this is one part that we
could complement the system.
So telemedicine has been talked
about for a long time and then
in not so remote places, like
even sub-oaps, to get access to
medical equipment.
It takes hours of drive
sometimes and having something
that can be deployed locally
that could give you some early
indication, really just by your
doorstep, is already a big part
that could help the system.
It could be seen as a funnel to
other channels within the
medical system and obviously it
helps the well-being for people
as well.
And it's not necessarily
competing with existing players
and that's one big part that we
do see how we can complement
into this.
And obviously there's always a
big government play for public
healthcare system.
Where you catch it early, you
spend a lot less in treating
them.
Jonathan Nguyen: This last
question is an open-ended
question.
We ask all the founders and it
goes back to our vision
discussion right at the
beginning.
So if there was one thing that
you're hoping to change about
the future of the industry, what
is it?
Justin Chan: It has to be
accessibility.
It has to do with early
detection.
It has to do with how do you
monitor chronic diseases,
because a lot of things are
really preventable if you catch
it early, and a lot of reasons
why people are not catching this
early could simply be down to
the cost of it, convenience of
it.
I've seen people who just don't
want to get checked up because
they don't want to go to clinics
All of those, and whether you
can even do this outside of
clinics, whether you have
community centres, all of it, so
that it's a lot more accessible
, whether it's home or not.
It would be a big part of
promoting that preventive aspect
of things.
And if you do have disease,
unfortunately, how can you catch
it when it deteriorates really
early as well, so that you can
prevent it?
So all of those boils down to
how early you can detect this
and it's about accessibility of
things, and that's where I see
the sector going into next steps
.
Jonathan Nguyen: Justin, great
talking to you and thank you
very much for coming past our
very chilly studio today.
Thanks for having me.
We're going to keep an eye on
your progress, and we wish you
all the best.
Justin Chan: Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you, everyone.