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Enjoy quick summaries of books that will help you lead a better life. These podcasts are AI generated with gentle, kind human guidance! These are part of the Healthspan360 collection, dedicated to enhancing wellness and longevity.
What truly drives success in life? I mean, is it really just some innate brilliance, you know, a special gift only a few people get? We hear it all the time. Right? Some people just have it.
Speaker 1:But what if that's not quite the full picture? Today we're doing a deep dive into something pretty fascinating. It's the core ideas from Angela Duckworth's work, GRIT. The power of passion and perseverance. And our mission really is to give you a kind of shortcut to understanding the main message, uncover some surprising bits and maybe offer some practical things you can use.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. At its heart, this whole idea argues that what we actually achieve in life might depend less on, you know, natural talent and way more on passion and perseverance. That's what she calls grit. Imagine, like, telling a friend about it. It's this relentless focus on long term goals.
Speaker 2:It's about staying interested, practicing the right way, finding purpose, and, holding on to hope. Even when it gets really hard, it kinda pulls back the curtain on genius, showing it's often just lots and lots of ordinary effort day after day.
Speaker 1:Okay. Let's really unpack this then. Duckworth's own story is kind of perfect here. She mentions her dad used to tell her she was no genius. Casual.
Speaker 1:Like at dinner. But then, years later, she wins the MacArthur Fellowship the Genius Award basically for researching exactly this topic. You know, how achievement often comes more from that passion and perseverance than just raw talent.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And this is where it gets really interesting.
Speaker 2:Oh, totally. And you see it play out dramatically in places like West Point. They have this super intense seven week training called Beast Barracks.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, like, one in five cadets actually drops out. But the surprising thing, it wasn't the usual stuff, SAT scores, high school grades, leadership sports that predicted who'd stick
Speaker 1:it Really? Not those things?
Speaker 2:Nope. It was grit. Her research found that the, whole candidate score, which lumps all that traditional stuff together, was basically identical for those who stayed and those who left, and they found the same pattern with salespeople too. Grit predicted who stayed in that tough job more than other personality traits. Think about dealing with rejection every day.
Speaker 1:Wow. So, why are we so hung up on talent then?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. The author suggests society, even big influential places like McKinsey back in the day, kinda operate with a talent mindset. You know, hiring and promoting based on who seems the most brilliant. The Enron collapse is even mentioned as maybe a cautionary tale where that extreme focus on talent might have accidentally encouraged some bad behaviors and short term thinking.
Speaker 1:Right. That makes sense.
Speaker 2:And think about Scott Barry Kaufman. He was told his IQ scores as a kid meant he couldn't be in gifted programs. Yet, he went on to get degrees from Carnegie Mellon, Cambridge, and Yale. Just pure effort and determination.
Speaker 1:So if talent isn't everything, what is? What's the alternative?
Speaker 2:Well, she gives these two simple but kinda profound equations. First, talent times effort equals skill.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Second, skill times effort equals achievement.
Speaker 1:So effort is in there twice.
Speaker 2:Exactly. That's the key takeaway. Effort builds the skill, and effort makes the skill productive. She uses examples like the Potter Warren Mackenzie saying, the first 10,000 pots are difficult. Or John Irving, the writer admitting he wasn't a natural, just rewrote constantly.
Speaker 2:Even Will Smith credits his success to a ridiculous, sickening work ethic, not just talent.
Speaker 1:Okay. So grit is clearly crucial. But how do we actually grow it? Can it be grown?
Speaker 2:Yes. Definitely. The idea is that it develops through four key psychological things. Interest, practice, purpose, and hope. And they seem to develop in a kind of order, one building on the next.
Speaker 1:Alright. First up, interest. We always hear follow your passion. Right? Especially in graduation speeches.
Speaker 1:But Duckworth argues it's rarely, like, love at first sight. She mentions Rowdy Gaines, the Olympic swimmer. He tried loads of sports before swimming clicked.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Or chef Mark Vetri starting out washing dishes. He got drawn into the kitchen atmosphere first, not necessarily the cooking itself initially.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. So passion isn't just found, it's developed.
Speaker 2:Exactly. It seems to be more of a progression. First discovery, then development, and then this lifetime of deepening. Often we don't really know what we want to do until maybe middle school or even later. And interests can definitely be nurtured, like Will Shortz's mom encouraging encouraging his puzzle making or Jeff Bezos's mom supporting his mechanical tinkering from a young age.
Speaker 2:Giving kids autonomy to explore seems key.
Speaker 1:Okay. So you find an interest, then comes practice.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But not just any practice.
Speaker 2:Right. Not just logging hours. It has to be deliberate practice.
Speaker 1:She jokes about her own jogging thousands of hours, but she didn't get faster because she wasn't trying to get faster. Mhmm. No specific goals. No feedback.
Speaker 2:Exactly. It's like Anders Ericsson's research on expert shows. They practice differently. They set specific stretch goals, targeting weaknesses. They focus completely.
Speaker 2:They seek out immediate useful feedback.
Speaker 1:And repeat, reflect, refine.
Speaker 2:Yes. All of that. It can be tiring, strenuous even, but that hard work is what leads to those moments of flow. Like Katie Ladecky describing her world record swim as feeling easy because the intense practice made it automatic.
Speaker 1:So the trick is making that deliberate practice a habit.
Speaker 2:Pretty much. Take the judgment out. Just embrace the challenge of getting better bit by bit.
Speaker 1:Then there's purpose. How does that fit in? Yeah. It's more than just personal interest. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Purpose adds this whole other layer.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's the idea that what you're doing contributes to something beyond yourself, to the well-being of others. Humans seem wired for both immediate pleasure, hedonic happiness, and this deeper sense of meaning eudemonic happiness. Happiness. That meaning often comes from connecting with and helping others.
Speaker 1:So it's like a deeper motivation.
Speaker 2:Exactly. People who see their work as a calling, who feel like they're making the world better somehow, they tend to be much grittier and more satisfied. Think of the parable of the three bricklayers. One says he's laying bricks, another says he's building a wall, the third says he's building a cathedral. Same job, different purpose.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Even a janitor or a subway engineer can see their work as a calling if they focus on how they serve others. Purpose can grow over time too, blending with your interests.
Speaker 1:And the last pillar is hope. What does that mean in this context? Not just wishful thinking, I assume.
Speaker 2:No, definitely not. It's more like resilience. It's the perseverance that kicks in when things get tough. Getting back up after being knocked down. It connects to Marty Seligman's work on learned helplessness and importantly, optimism.
Speaker 1:Ah, optimism.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Optimists tend to explain setbacks as temporary and specific. I failed this test because I didn't study this topic enough. Pessimists often see them as permanent and pervasive. I failed because I'm stupid and I'll fail everything.
Speaker 1:And that links to Carol Dweck's mindset idea.
Speaker 2:Precisely. A growth mindset believing you can improve your abilities with effort feels that hope and perseverance. A fixed mindset believing talent is fixed makes you give up easily. So practicing optimistic self talk, focusing on what you can change, and asking for help are key parts of cultivating this kind of hope.
Speaker 1:Okay. So those are the internal building blocks. But what about the outside? How can we help cultivate grit in others or in our workplaces or families?
Speaker 2:Culture plays a huge role. The environment we're in really shapes us.
Speaker 1:Like with parenting.
Speaker 2:Exactly. The author talks about wise parenting. It's this combination of being really supportive and really demanding.
Speaker 1:So not authoritarian, but not permissive either. A balance.
Speaker 2:Right. Like Steve Young's dad, 's nicknamed Grit for his toughness, but was also incredibly supportive when Steve had separation anxiety. Or Francesca Martinez's parents, supportive but also had firm rules, modeled hard work.
Speaker 1:Supportive and demanding.
Speaker 2:And this style seems to foster emulation, not just imitation. Kids don't just copy the behavior. They internalize the values behind it because they feel loved and respected and challenged.
Speaker 1:And does that apply to teachers and mentors too?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Psychologically, wise teachers do the same thing. Toby Litke, Shopify's founder, talks about his mentor, Jurgen, who created this demanding but supportive space for him to learn programming. Research by Ron Ferguson shows teachers like that demanding and supportive boost student happiness, effort, and grades. Even a simple post it note study showed that adding feedback like, I have high expectations and I know you can reach them, dramatically increased how many students revise their essays.
Speaker 2:That belief matters.
Speaker 1:What about outside of school? Extracurriculars?
Speaker 2:Huge. They're described as fantastic grit training grounds.
Speaker 1:Why is that?
Speaker 2:Because kids get to do hard things that actually interest them, usually while having fun. That combo is rare.
Speaker 1:But do they build grit or just attract kids who already have it?
Speaker 2:Good question. Research suggests it's likely both. Daniel Willingham found that follow through in activities sticking with something for years, advancing predicts later success. Harvard even looks at this. So sustained commitment seems to build grit.
Speaker 2:It fits with the Correspondence Principle. Our traits lead us to situations that then reinforce those traits. Learned industriousness basically.
Speaker 1:But it also raises that issue about access, doesn't it? The gap between kids who can afford these activities and those who can't.
Speaker 2:Definitely crucial point. Access and opportunity matter hugely.
Speaker 1:And what about whole organizations or even countries?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Culture at scale. Pete Carroll with the Seahawks intentionally built a culture of competition and perseverance using specific language, focusing on core values. Jimmy Diamond at JPMorgan Chase talks about instilling fortitude, making setbacks, learning opportunities, not excuses.
Speaker 1:And you mentioned the Finnish idea of Sisu.
Speaker 2:Right. That national concept of inner strength and perseverance. Being part of a group, a team, a company, a nation that values grit can powerfully shape your own identity and push you to live up to those standards.
Speaker 1:Okay. Let's step back a bit. If we were discussing this, say, in a book club, what would be the big highlights and maybe some points for debate?
Speaker 2:Great idea. Let's start with five really valuable takeaways from this deep dive. One, that super simple but powerful effort counts twice formula, talent x effort, insight up. Skill, skill x effort, achievement. Just reframes everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That really sticks with you.
Speaker 2:Two, the clear roadmap for growing grit inside out. Interest, practice, purpose, hope makes it feel achievable. Three, understanding the difference in connection between deliberate practice, the hard work, and flow, the effortless performance.
Speaker 1:Right. Practice leads to flow.
Speaker 2:Four, the wise parenting concept, supportive and demanding. Such a practical, balanced approach. And five, just how strongly culture influences our grit. From family to teams to nations, the environment matters.
Speaker 1:Okay. Great points. Now for that balanced book club perspective, what about some critiques or limitations? Things to maybe think a bit deeper about.
Speaker 2:Good call. Here are five some the author herself points out.
Speaker 1:Great.
Speaker 2:First, it's very focused on individual psychology. It doesn't dive as deep into external factors like systemic barriers, lack of opportunity, or just plain luck that can definitely impact someone's path no matter how gritty they are.
Speaker 1:Like the extracurricular access issue.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Second, the grit scale itself. It's useful, but it's self reported, so it reflects how you see yourself, which can have biases. Third, the extracurricular link. Strong correlation, yes, but causation is tricky.
Speaker 2:Does it build grit, select for grit, or both? Probably both, but it's not definitively proven it builds it. Fourth, grit isn't the only important trait. The author is clear. Character is plural.
Speaker 2:Self control, social intelligence, curiosity, they all matter too. Grit isn't everything. And fifth, sometimes quitting is the right call. Persistence isn't always good. Duckworth admits dropping piano and French let her focus elsewhere.
Speaker 2:Knowing when to quit a lower level goal is also a skill.
Speaker 1:That's a really important nuance. Okay. So boiling it all down, maybe give us the top 10 key insights that people can really connect to everyday life.
Speaker 2:Sure. 10 key takeaways. One, grit beats talent often. It's passion plus perseverance. Your effort matters more than you think.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Two, effort counts twice. Remember, it builds skill and makes skill productive.
Speaker 1:Got it.
Speaker 2:Three, interests develop. Don't just wait for passion, actively explore and nurture things. Four, practice smart, deliberate practice, stretch goals, focus, feedback. That's how you truly improve.
Speaker 1:Makes sense.
Speaker 2:Five, purpose feels grit. Connect your work to helping others for deeper motivation. Six, hope is learnable optimism. View setbacks as temporary and specific, not permanent failures. Seven, growth mindset is key.
Speaker 2:Believe you can improve with effort. Eight, wise parenting works. Be supportive and demanding.
Speaker 1:Good advice.
Speaker 2:Nine, extracurriculars grit training. Sticking with hard, interesting things builds resilience. 10, culture shapes you. Surround yourself with gritty people and groups.
Speaker 1:Fantastic summary. Now if someone really resonated with his deep dive on grit, what's another book they might like? If you like this, you'll love that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely. Carol Dweck's mindset the new psychology of success. Oh, yeah. It goes so much deeper into that fixed versus growth mindset idea, which is totally central to the hope part of grit. It really reinforces how your beliefs shape what you can achieve.
Speaker 1:Perfect pairing. Okay. Here's a fun twist. We like to do a high two to capture the essence of today's deep dive. Ready?
Speaker 1:Hey. Sashions fire glows. Nice. Perseverance truly grows. Success then bestows.
Speaker 2:I like it, captures it well. So yeah, this deep dive really shows grit isn't some magic thing you're born with or not, it's learnable. It's that mix of passion and perseverance you can build through focused effort and ideally in a supportive environment.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. So the final thought for you listening, what's just one small step maybe this week you could take to apply one of these ideas? How could you unleash just a little bit more grit in your own life?