70: Bad Education

For this episode Adam welcomes back Robert Francis—exercise historian, and instructor at InForm Fitness. If you are a parent with young children you must listen to “Bad Education”. Robert explains how important exercise is for our children and details the fascinating, yet sobering history of the Physical Education system in American schools; from its roots, its original mission, how we diverged and what, as parents, we can do about it.

Show Notes

The idea to include physical education as part of a child’s core curriculum is as uniquely American as Edison’s light bulb and the Blues. As early as the mid 1800’s American educators argued that, from kindergarten through to 12th grade, schools should provide children with the knowledge and activities necessary to maintain a high level of physical fitness for a lifetime.  In the mid 1950’s, President Eisenhower established the President’s Council on Youth Fitness (PCYF) urging schools to offer ‘15 minutes of daily, vigorous activity’.  And America’s Physical education system was born.

President Kennedy continued to address the issue of physical education, and although the PCYF did not have the authority to impose a national program, it developed and promoted a curriculum to improve fitness. Two hundred thousand copies were distributed in a sweeping drive to achieve widespread participation in the program for the 1961–1962 school year. The program produced a measurable improvement in fitness nationwide as well as a shift in public attitudes and wider participation. 

Today, however, Fitness classes are disappearing from the nation's public schools at an alarming rate, vanquished by ever-tightening budgets and time constraints. Only about half of students in grades K-12 have physical education classes every day, and even less for high school students. All at a time when there is a growing body of evidence showing exercise to be fertilizer for the brain. Exercise fosters brain development and growth, and physical activity prepares children to learn.

 If you are a parent with young children you must listen to our most recent episode, “Bad Education” with Robert Francis.  Robert explains how important exercise is for our children and details the fascinating, yet sobering history of the Physical Education system in American schools; from its roots, its original mission, how we diverged and what, as parents, we can do about it.

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Inform_R FRANCIS Ep 70 Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

physical education, exercise, sports, people, fitness, school, called, problems, education, athletics, early, teaching, educators, kids, gymnastics, plato, naperville, games, obesity, recreation

Arlene  00:01

The Inform fitness podcast with Adam Zickerman is a presentation of Inform fitness studios, a small family of personal training facilities specializing in safe, efficient high intensity strength training. On our BI monthly podcast, Adam discusses the latest findings in the area of exercise nutrition and recovery with leading experts and scientists, we aim to debunk the popular misconceptions and urban myths that are so prevalent in the fields of health and fitness. And to replace those sacred cows with scientific based up to the minute information on a variety of subjects will cover exercise protocols and techniques, nutrition, sleep, recovery, the role of genetics in the response to exercise, and much more. For this episode, Adam welcomes back Robert Francis, exercise historian and instructor at informed fitness. If you're a parent with young children, you must listen to bad education. Robert explains how important exercise is for our children and details the fascinating yet sobering history of the physical education system in American schools, from its roots, its original mission, how we diverged. And what as parents can we do about for the first time in American history, there is likely to be a generation dental are going to have a shorter lifespan than their pounds.

 

Adam  01:38

Well, I am so happy to bring back Robert Francis, once again, my mentor, so for so many years, who now have the honor of working with him for fitness. He has a fount of information, when I asked him about all the subjects that we should talk about, one subject that he likes to talk about, and he's well versed on is something that you don't normally hear me talking about, because I don't really know that much about it at all. Although Robert says I do no more than I think about it. So we're going to find out. And that is the subject of your original intent of our physical education system in the United States. You know, gym class and school, and how it compares to the actual present reality is how Robert likes to put it. So, Robert, I guess we'll start with this question. Why do you think this is an important subject for this podcast? Because you know, we normally talk about, you know, exercise fitness nutrition. So here, we're talking about the physical education system, the United States. So why do you think this is an important subject?

 

Robert  02:48

Well, we train hundreds of people a day in our studios. And I can see and you can see that people ask questions that they really ought to know the answers to people come in with problems that when we talk, we talk about how preventable so many of these problems are. And it's very clear that people have had an inadequate education for 12 years in the public school and kindergarten, on how to maintain their physical bodies. And in my view, a lot of what comes into our doors are not people wanting to optimize an already well moving body, but they're reconstructing a body that is falling apart from maladies and from conditions that are completely preventable, and that they ought to have been adequately educated in order to prevent they're coming in with problems that have to be dealt with. First, sometimes their injuries very often, it's obesity, and diabetes, there's a lot of makeup work that has to be done before we can put them on a course of really robust physical health. Well, you're

 

Adam  04:13

right. I mean, are you? Are you including a lot of orthopedic issues as well? Yes, sometimes? Yeah. But it's not just orthopedic issues. You're saying things like, you know, metabolic syndrome type stuff, you know, just obesity, high blood pressure, just just bad health,

 

Robert  04:27

and a lot of the problems that those things bring on mental distress, anxiety, depression, and all the rest of these things that had they been maintaining had they've been taught, according to original intent for physical education, the so

 

Adam  04:45

you're saying the original intent of our physical education system, you'll have to tell us when that started, actually, is that the 40s? Is that the 30s but the original intent whenever that was in our physical education system, United States, it was a good intent. They had good intentions and they did it well.

 

Robert  05:00

Well, physical education has been something that's always been in flux in this country. And it says some of it has to do with customs. And some of it has to do with cultural changes. But the original intent was so intelligent that it would apply today and top physical educators today are trying to get back to the original intent.

 

Adam  05:23

Well, what was the original intent? And when did that start? The original

 

Robert  05:27

intent was voiced in the 1820s. But had its origins earlier than that between 1802 an 1809. The original intent was to provide children with the knowledge and interest in maintaining a high level of physical fitness for life.

 

Adam  05:51

Was that a mission statement? Did you just read that as a mission statement from from the Board of Education,

 

Robert  05:56

that would have been early educators, I think there was no Board of Education yet in 1820, but by American educators, there had been a great interest in the works of Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, that many people don't know, was a wrestler. He was a student of Socrates, teacher of Aristotle, Plato developed what he called the academia, which means school, school is an English word comes with German word shul, which literally means place for having fun and learning. In Plato's Republic, he had addressed Physical Activity and its importance and its relationship to learning. Boys and girls learn far better in an atmosphere or in a setting where physical activity occurred on a regular basis. In fact, a daily basis, Plato had been very influenced in his observations of schools all over the Greek world. And he went to the islands, and he went to southern Greece, where he observed the very systematic training in Peloponnesian of Spartan boys. There was a very rigid training that started at age seven. And Sparta was not known as a city state that valued poetry and music and drama and dance, but they train their boys. Physically, there was no systematic learning program, anywhere else, everybody sat in what was maybe a theater, and the expert or the guru, or the person would come in and talk, you know, kind of like watching maybe YouTube videos more than a systematic today, we do this. Tonight, we do this tomorrow, we get up at this time we do that. And the systemization was very impressive to Plato. And that started to influence Greek schools, everywhere. This was of interest to Westerners in the 1820s, because we started discovering these antiquity, started reading the Old epic poems and started reading the old books written by the old masters of the ancient days. And we thought, well, this kind of learning are things that we will need in American public schools. Now, there had been systems of exercise developed in other countries,

 

Adam  08:37

systems based on the the early Greeks,

 

Robert  08:40

not necessarily Europeans, also had similar interests. And so running, jumping games with implements and balls and things. Were in their early development, most of it grew out of the gymnastic systems, but the idea that physical education is educational, and ought to be planted in the public schools rather than in, for example, Germany, it was the Turnverein, which these were clubs where you would father would take son meet their brother, and you know, and his kids and they would do gymnastics, and you know, for the most part, drink beer and eat sausages. But the idea of placing physical education in public school education developed in the United States, it didn't develop anywhere else or developed here. First, meaning unlike Germany, physical education was not meant to be training for the military. Unlike Sweden, it wasn't training just for bodily fitness. And unlike England, it wasn't games and athletics just for recreation. Physical Education is, for the most part, an American concept and it has had been developed from interest in developing the body as a part of a person's wholeness.

 

Adam  10:07

And that's a unique American idea is that directly from the ancient Greeks,

 

Robert  10:13

the modern embodiment is an American ideal. But that is right. That is right. It was adapted from the Greek Academy.

 

Adam  10:22

Well, I want to talk specifically about the program, I want to know what kids were taught, when you say that you're trying to emulate the Greeks, about teaching education, as the body is, as some part of your wholeness, you know, complete person needs to be physically active and physically strong. How did they teach that? What was the early curriculum like? And how is it compared to the curriculum now?

 

Robert  10:42

Well, in the early days, there were no real physical educators that would, it would usually be the people who were their regular teachers. A lot of it was not uniformly applied, because it had to do a great deal with an individual teachers own experience, and what physical activity, they themselves understood. These things started to get more uniformly applied later.

 

Adam  11:09

Are you saying there was this push for educating children in our school systems in the 1820s? So who was pushing for it? Where did it start to start which school system to start in New York to start to start all at once I said, you said people were pushing for certain states,

 

Robert  11:24

the early models were at places like Harvard and Amherst College, because that's where the people who were educated and who had access to a lot of the ancient classics, and this is where the the ideas were percolating. And so the development of physical education was from really the people who they observed as the experts in the day, and that would have been Swedes, Germans, and together with what was culturally known in the United States, games like Rounders and games with, with balls and things like that. And these are the same places where games like basketball and volleyball were developed a little bit later. But physical education really started becoming what we know of physical education really around the civil war time. And there were educators who were looking at calisthenics and gymnastic exercises, which pretty much the way that things had been for 40 or 50 years. The other school of thought were advocates of athletics, and they felt that games and sports were more social in nature, and that they required more participants to make very quick judgments and called on other qualities, non physical qualities, courage and cooperation, self reliance and ethics. And a lot of that was from the English tradition of athletics and games, where being a good team member would improve your character, and it would make you an excellent citizen of the Empire.

 

Adam  13:07

Yeah, well, that makes sense. I mean, yeah, I mean, we all agree that sports do all those things. But they both went out because I mean, I think schools incorporated sports and physical education as far as just getting stronger and exercise in general, from a pure sense, not necessarily the competitive part.

 

Robert  13:25

Well, another of the original intent of physical education in this country had been that American children would be made into lifetime participants, not lifetime spectators.

 

Adam  13:39

But this happens in one exercise a sports, same doesn't matter.

 

Robert  13:42

But what ended up happening is the model that overwhelmingly came out on top was the athletic model, the teaching of sports, the rules of games and teaching of sports and the grading of children for much of American Physical Education, the grading of students against other children rather than against themselves, that calisthenics and bodily exercises like gymnastics or and I have to say that the term gymnastics is not the term of the sport of gymnastics as we know it today. In the Olympics, right gymnastics was exercise back it was what we would call exercise. It was clubs swinging clubs that were loosely like a mostly like a baseball bat.

 

Adam  14:33

So that was considered a gymnastics that was considered exercise.

 

Robert  14:36

Yes, that would that would have fallen into the category of gymnastics club swinging was

 

Adam  14:42

alright States didn't really adapt gymnastics as such. They started veering towards the sports athletics route well,

 

Robert  14:51

right in the education in in physical education. The preferred model was the athletic model.

 

Adam  14:57

Who Are there any names here? I mean, who was the best proponent for you know, gymnastics in the American schools versus who was the big advocate for sports in the school education system?

 

Robert  15:08

Well, Walter Camp was a principal name. And Walter Camp especially I was name is, of course, highly associated with football. And I don't know how many stadiums are called Walter kam field, but there are a lot of them. So he was the athletic well, he, he was one of the principal advocates for athletics, and particularly football football became two physical educators, a model of what they called American manhood should be that it was strength, and it was fleet of foot. And it was character building. And it was obedience. And it was fast thinking, and it was every thing that they thought American manhood should be. And really, I know that when I was in elementary school, my coach was former football guy. And so many of us who went to school in the 50s, and 60s, our phys ed coaches, were ex pro football players. These were the guys who were chosen or who, who got the phys ed jobs, rather than people who were specifically trained in education and knowledge about learning and teaching,

 

Adam  16:26

whereas they're gonna thought the whole thing about American education was teaching. And now you're telling me that not?

 

Robert  16:31

Well, physical education has been the exception. And that's what we're talking about, but I'm confused. What Um, well, the confusion is that we have very early on escaped from the original intent

 

Adam  16:45

very early. I mean, like says, like we ever got there. I mean, alright, so Walter Camp was one guy who is who is the guy on the other side? Well, first of all, where's Where did Walter Camp come from? Well,

 

Robert  16:54

he had been a long time physical educator, he felt that by doing physical education, with sports and games, and of course, football in particular, that that would satisfy a student's need or requirement for bodily exercise. And that that would be sufficient to motivate them for a future of lifetime of physical engagement

 

Adam  17:20

camp wrote a book, The Daily doesn't exercise regimen, right? So there were 12 exercises, they became known as hands, grind, crawl, wave, hips, great curl, weave head, grasp, crouch and wing. As the name indicates, there are 12 exercises. And they could be completed in about eight minutes. So he did this quickly. Right. So that sounds like exercise to me. It doesn't sound like sports to

 

Robert  17:45

me. Well, that's not what was proposed. He was a principal voice, not the only voice. And when you do things by committee, what ends up happening is is never one individual's conception.

 

Adam  17:56

So what was the other side?

 

Robert  17:59

Well, the other side were preponderance of educators who had been proponents of the ongoing gymnastics and calisthenic method.

 

Adam  18:10

Who is that was that like Banagher? McFadden? No,

 

Robert  18:13

no, no, he had nothing to do with public school education. The thing you I suppose you would call it the system, the establishment. But what ended up winning out before the 20th century was the athletic model, and that, for the most part stayed a part of American fiscal education until World War One, when nearly 35% of draftees were unfit for military duty. And in fact, the term fitness is a military term. You think about fitness, use fitness for what you know, you could be you know, fit for shoveling shit from one end to another, but fitness was a military term fitness for service, and that would be for war service. So 35% of American draftees were unfit for service in World War One. Immediately after World War One, there was a call for an entire reorganization of fiscal education in the public schools that we can have this lack of preparedness occur again and then everybody's budgets dropped because we had a depression. So that's one of the cultural changes that caused physical education to get derailed it very likely may have gotten on to a very good path. Had we not had the depression and we would have had better preparedness for World War Two. Now, World War Two conditions were even worse. 40% just a little over 40% of draftees were unfit for military duty.

 

Adam  19:49

And we blame and we blame at least in part, the fact that we were just focusing on sports and school not and we weren't focusing on orang

 

Robert  19:57

or or NUS or not at all, very little was was happening in physical education because it was not made a priority.

 

Adam  20:05

Alright, so we win the war. What happens then to our physical education system?

 

Robert  20:11

After World War two things were very different than after World War One in the 50s. We started reevaluating just about everything, because we were worried we start worrying about preparedness. And of course, you had a general who was president of the United States at the time. And when Eisenhower, that's right. during the Eisenhower administration, public school buildings started going up, everywhere, all of the new facilities were going to have sports facilities, and we're going to have much much upgraded physical education facilities compared to pre war. By the time Kennedy came in facilities where their money was free flowing, we could now start exploring what physical education could be. And new schools that were being built or being built with then state of the art equipment, equipment was, well, there, there would be rings and bars and ropes and even pulley machines and mats for wrestling mats and parallel bars and a lot of the things that had been abandoned in the previous years, and bringing back some of what the original bodily exercises,

 

Adam  21:21

so schools are incorporating all these things like, because I remember my I mean, I was in elementary school in the 70s. And I remember climbing a row, I remember the pegs that you had to kind of climb up the wall and put the pegs one after the other. And really that which is hard to have to do whatever amount of situps and mount of time and you know, there there was like this element of physical education,

 

Robert  21:45

what you had there were or what we had, we were at the very tail end of Kennedy's physical education program. And that was where we were tested. We were tested at the beginning of the year. And we were tested in the middle of the year with tests at the end of the year, for sit ups and shuttle runs, and you'd be tested for your chin ups. And you were tested. From year to year, you would see your progression.

 

Adam  22:13

Alright, so that was a 70 is where we are now because you're telling me like, you know, because of the people that you mentioned earlier, the people that are coming to us with metabolic syndrome, orthopedic problems. These are all the baby boomers that went through the school system like you and I did, because I am the last baby boomer. So I'm a sixth I was born 64. Right? So between 45, I guess, and 64 was a big baby boomers and they went to school, they went to elementary school in the 50s through the 70s. And these are the people that don't seem to be very well educated. And they certainly don't seem to be very healthy right now. Why? Well,

 

Robert  22:47

there are things we know now. And there are things that were not known in the 1960s when Kennedy's physical education programs were being formulated, I didn't say that Kennedy achieved what the original intent was in physical education, only that it was a better system than what had come before. So there are things we know now that we didn't know then there are people living longer now and people who are subjected to cultural changes that never existed in the 19, let's say 50s, where by the time they were 50 years old, in 1965, would be suffering from these metabolic diseases. There weren't certain things in the diet, they weren't certain cultural things, and all the rest. Where are we now, there is a term that's being used right now all over the world everywhere, called the new smoking. And that is something cultural everywhere. The new smoking was first used about three years ago in Lancet, the British Medical Journal. And the new smoking is inactivity, and all of the things that go with it. That's obesity, that's shorter lifespan. obese kids are more likely to be bullied, they have poorer jobs, prospects when they get older. And these things are occurring. Because of people looking at screens. They're not doing things and they're they're spending hours and hours playing games. They're up till obscene hours of the night, communicating with people all over the world and they're sleeping far less. They're doing far less. They're not riding their bikes, and they're not playing baseball, and they're not looking for hockey games, and they're not looking to be active. And this is what they're calling the new smoking. Now this is happening at exactly the time where physical education budgets are being cut everywhere. As I I understand that the median budget for physical education per school is under $800. That that would be for the entire school. And I think it ends up coming out to less than 10 cents per student. So at a time where we have this explosion in the new smoking, that is inactivity, obesity, and all of the problems that go with it, because there are other problems that go with it, there are mental emotional problems that go with it. There is a postural decay that's occurring. And this is something else that we see all the time, I don't think there's or I'd be surprised if there's anybody under 35 That doesn't have their head slung forward, and their shoulders rounded forward in a manner that is not going to be correctable. The posture problem alone is muscular weakness, eventually, eventually orthopedic problems, irreversible skeletal deformities, early osteoporosis, all of these things can contribute together with obesity into a vastly shorter lifespan. And part of the talk around the new smoking is that for the first time in American history, there is likely to be a generation that will are going to have a shorter lifespan than their parents, I can see that, and the things that we now know, that we didn't know in the 60s. And Kennedy implemented a lot of really excellence in physical education, with not a very large expenditure of money or resources.

 

Adam  26:50

I take back what I said a little bit, I mean, because I said, we're dealing with baby boomers. And they came out of the Kennedy Eisenhower Kennedy theory that that education belongs in the school, that he was on 10th, being, you know, following the Greeks, you know, what they, how they valued physical education. We had to do all that stuff in school when you had gym class, and we played sports, and we tried to climb those ropes. And, you know, there were problems with that. I mean, like, for example, people are not all kids are created equal. And your ability to climb rope doesn't mean you're not fit. I mean, there are lots of kids in that class that couldn't actually climb that rope. And they would judge by their ability to climb that rope. And they're scarred for the rest of their lives because they couldn't climb that rope. Meanwhile, they were strong fit kids that maybe were bottom heavy because of their genetics. And there's no way that we're going to be able to climb that rope, even though they might have been able to hit a baseball a million miles and crush you on the front line of a football team. They just weren't climbing the ropes. And like I think we kind of did very narrow ideas of what was required to be physically fit. And I think, where education went wrong there was to be able to separate as Ken Hutchins did later, on many years later, to separate the difference between exercise and recreation. There's nothing wrong with sports, but we have to know our risks. And there's nothing wrong with choosing these things. We're all big boys and girls, but when it comes to getting strong and the understanding of health, I think what we have to understand is that's not What sports do for us, sports, undermine your health, your physical health, it undermines the integrity of your joints, you get injuries that you might live the rest of your life with, like I am with my back problems and my shoulder problems from playing baseball for all those years. And here I am thinking that's all good exercise. For me. I'm out there playing sports, but it wasn't good for my health. Because I'm suffering right now, because of those things. My health. I mean, what Ken Hutchins did with the recreation verse exercise is exactly what I think should be taught in the schools right now, you make that distinction at an early age, the difference between exercise and what we do at informed fitness and the efficacy of high intensity training that doesn't undermine your health, versus the choice and benefits of sports. And being outside and being active, like the Greek said, be out there and be active, right. And you're talking now about our modern children, sitting behind a computer all day long in the basements not getting their sleep, which is a big part of health. Forget about exercise, forget about it. So T GE IQ, high intensity strength training, to help them build bone and to maintain a mind of fitness and strength throughout their lives. They get that, but they're not even doing the recreation part. They're not even going out and just riding the damn bicycle anymore.

 

Robert  29:39

Why is that? Why Why isn't it in physical education courses?

 

Adam  29:44

I don't know. Tell me why. Why isn't my school right now? Understanding that distinction? That's right. That is so

 

Robert  29:51

it's not it's not a rhetorical question, because so much of physical education in this country has been polluted with athletics, that all of physical education is not even required in higher education unless you're an athlete, his physical education has turned Americans, from participants into spectators, which was the opposite of the intent of Physical Education, physical education has become at the college level, a farm team for professional athletics. And that's all it's observed as if you're the kid who can't catch a ball, and who can't stop the puck or something like that. You feel like you have no use for physical education anymore. And the original intent is something that one has to get back to. Right now. Physical Education is so devalued that in most of the country, you're not even required to participate. Every single year, much of the country,

 

Adam  31:02

what's what grades you're talking about

 

Robert  31:04

K to 12. In much of the country, high school Phys Ed is only required for a single year. Yeah. And it's, it's it's optional, or edit and when it is provided, it's provided one day a week. In fact, in Florida, you're only required to have one semester of physical education between grade nine and 12. And that's all that's needed to graduate high school. And it's worse than that. You can do it online

 

Adam  31:36

level education.

 

Robert  31:37

There's one state in this country that has physical education in its charter for every student, K to 12, five days a week, one state, which is that state of Illinois Bridgeview, Illinois, their director of Phys. Ed at Naperville Public Schools is called Paul's and Tarski. And this guy is going to beat today's name in our modern Phys. Ed. innovator. What are you doing? Well, he's in part responsible for maintaining full load of physic every child every day, K to 12. In Illinois, now

 

Adam  32:26

is he the my education superintendent?

 

Robert  32:30

He's a Phys. Ed director, Naperville public

 

Adam  32:33

school. Oh, so he's just responsible for for Naperville, which is a suburb of Chicago, by the way,

 

Robert  32:38

after Harvard University sent a group of their directors to see what it is that's going on in Naperville. That their math reading science scores are far above the national average that their school system is competitive with the best in Japan and China, Norway, Sweden, what John ratty of Harvard University said, and this is this is in multiple multiple sources, after meeting Paul's and Toschi and examining their physical education program and the way it relates to other subjects. ratty said, exercises like fertilizer for the brain. It's like Miracle Gro. The thing about exercise, and this is at any age. And it's double true for people under 20 years old. That exercise builds neurons in new brain cells in the hippocampus. That's part of the brain that deals with memory and new learning. New Learning, crossword puzzles, puzzles, trivia games, don't build brain cells. Exercise builds brain cells. So this is going to become a big deal with Alzheimer's yet another disease that exercise can deal with, but it has to be dealt with young

 

Adam  34:09

and Naperville is on top of that.

 

Robert  34:12

They are the state of the art physical education colleges are teaching the system that they're using in Naperville. And another thing, exercise when it's applied, and when it's applied with skill. There are so many conditions and maladies that are just never going to happen to you. But the thing is that these things have to be dealt with early bone building in women. Really you have a you have a very short window of really being able to multiply your bone density. And that's really from pre pubescent until about the age of 16 Everybody We're all in that age group ought to be on an in tense regimen of strength training. And you're talking about between obesity and the maladies that follow, and the depression and the anxiety and all of the rest of these things, the posture problems, the orthopedic problems and the learning disabilities, you're talking about maybe a trillion dollars, billions don't matter anymore. But you're talking about trillions of dollars in health care, money, here, you have a solution to so many problems, maybe not every problem, and maybe not the total solution for any problem. But at least, you don't have to make something worse with the new smoking

 

Adam  35:46

true credit to Illinois for having physical education in their system for five days a week when everyone else is making it almost optional, it seems. But the question is, like I brought up earlier, I think it's great that they're making the kids get outside and recess every day, and there's maybe some sports involved. And they're playing dodgeball every single day. And they're playing a sports, depending upon the season, I guess. But are they teaching exercise? Are they teaching the difference between exercise and recreation? are they understanding that there is a difference? They understand the benefits of high intensity strain training versus cardio? Are they making those distinctions? Because that's where I think we need to be our education system

 

Robert  36:26

that that is in the first place, we have to take these things one step at a time. And the first step is physical education has to be a core subject. It has to be like math, reading, science, history, or like the commies call it now social studies, is we have to have the word social everywhere. But the start of improving these things first, and no, Naperville is not on that. That's a component bodily strength is a component there more than another physical education systems. But the start is where Naperville is that's the start every school, every grade, every student, every single day.

 

Adam  37:14

No, I agree. It's very important. We have a lot of problems right now. We have a lot of problems with our kids staying in the basement playing the video games, not wanting to go out and do things. I mean, I had one kid told me is that brings him into work out here. You know, I've formed a bond with him. But he's also friends with my son, they were in the same class. I said, Why don't you get together with my son? Today, you know, maybe you can go swimming in the pool or something. He's like, no need. I mean, we can just talk online, we can be together online. That's when you want to at least be together when you can. I mean, it's so easy for you guys to get together. You can hang out in the pool and go back and you can play your games on the arm on the computer. But you can also go swimming first and then go back and forth. Maybe? No, I think that's representative of a lot of kids. And that really scares me.

 

Robert  38:04

It's early stage depression. That really

 

Adam  38:07

concerns me. And it concerns me that the school and part of it is that the schools are emphasizing that. And if the schools are making it physical education, almost nothing practically anymore. For like you said, I mean, colleges now just farm teams for professional sports. So if you're not at that level, and you're not playing sports, I mean, they have intramurals I remember intramurals and college, are they I'm sure they still haven't done mural sports and things like that. And they were popular when I was in college. But yeah, I mean, I don't know.

 

Robert  38:36

It's sad. It's sad, and the facilities are there already. So

 

Adam  38:40

listen, so I talking to your kids, and getting them off the computer. We have to teach them. The schools aren't doing it. The schools aren't going to do it. And kids have to know how important exercise is. It's not just our state of mind, but it's for our physical health, weigh into our future what you do as a youth physically, exercise wise, has ramifications in your adult life. It's like investing into an IRA. If you don't invest into your health and your fitness and your strength, really, I mean, nowadays to me, fitness means strength. As Robert pointed out, fitness used to just mean your ability to fight in combat. Fitness now is about being strong and everything that comes from being strong. When I interviewed James Fisher, James Fisher was talking about you know, how strength is very, is very closely related to the lifespan, you know, the stronger you are, the less likely you are to die early. And our youth, as you pointed out, they're kyphotic their underslept overfed under active

 

Robert  39:43

bad posture, flat feet. They bore easily.

 

Adam  39:47

Yeah, I'm seeing that now. I mean, hope I don't sound like the old generation saying oh, the new generation today that Oh, no, no, but But

 

Robert  39:55

Well, you're right as they were right about us.

 

Adam  39:59

I really To wrap this up, sorry to end on such a sober note. But we have to advocate for ourselves, we have to advocate for our nutrition. And you know, like, no subject. Another talk I was having with people is that, you know, hospitals have the worst food by the way. And when you're in the hospital, and they feed they they serve you the worst food, you know, they'll give 60% carbohydrates to a diabetic. You know, my wife works in a hospital, I've been to their cafeteria, it's unbelievable what they're serving cafeterias or hospitals. I mean, like, where's our nutrition education? And if it's not being taught in the hospitals, if it's not being represented as a standard and a hospital, then where are we going to get this information from where people going to understand, you got to advocate for yourself, you're not getting it from the health care, you're not getting it from the hospitals, you're not getting it from the schools. Or you

 

Robert  40:42

have to wonder if that's just not a wide scale institutional plan to kill us all, you know,

 

Adam  40:49

but, you know, get your kids outside, get them to strength train safely, get kids to understand the importance of being strong and fit. And when I say strong, I don't mean being able to beat the shit out of somebody in the bullying school. Or I don't mean looking like some kind of Adonis on Men's Health magazine. And you look like a Hugh Jackman, we, you know, I mean, we all deal with origin and we're all normal, average people. But normal average, people can be strong. Alright, so I don't buy this shit that that my kid is a my kid more intellectual. Alright, he's not the jock. It's not about being a jock versus intellectual. It's about being an intellectual. And being a strong intellectual, you can be an intellectual not being into sports, alright, and still be strong. And kids need to understand the difference. Because they're being taught something else. They're being taught that if you're not into sports, then you're not an athlete, and you shouldn't work out and you don't have to work out. Because what's the point of working out? If you're not gonna play a sport?

 

Robert  41:49

You'll be a better intellectual if you're much stronger.

 

Adam  41:53

Yeah, you'll be healthier, longer living intellectual, so you can, you know, so you don't die at 27. Like some of my greatest influences. Plato was a wrestler. There you go. Alright. So for you listening to this episode, and you're relating to this, and you're thinking of your kids and the school that you're in, because I know, we have listeners all around the world, I'm really curious to know if people are experiencing what we're experiencing and how the schools are dealing with physical education, and where you're at whether you're in the United States and different districts in the United States and different countries. I just started training some new podcast listener and Sweden so I'm going to talk to him to I'm curious, if you really want to know how to advocate for your kids, give me a call. I can consult with you. I can teach you how to teach your children about the principles of proper exercise even if they're not, as they say in my town in the UK if they're not a sporty so you got the sport he's against the other kids that aren't sport is now the gamers, I guess, you know, it said that a sporty that people if you're not a sporty that you don't have to be physically fit. And that's a bad message to give to our youth. And we need to change that. And if you're curious, look up Ken Hutchins exercise versus recreation. I'm sure you can find that essay online somewhere. And if you can't, let me know, I'll send you a copy. Alright, so I'm doing lots of virtuals. Now all around the all around the world. It just signed up some really nice guy. Hi, Tom, if you're listening from Sweden, I can really teach you how to how to use a dumbbell correctly. If you want to really learn how to stay strong in a brief period of time and move on with your life. All right, I've never thought about promoting virtual training. But here I am. And I'm doing it is working because I just realized it's not about our fancy retrofitted equipment. That's nice. But you still need to know how to use the dumbbell correctly and not hurt his shoulder. Remember exercise recreation. Alright, everybody. Thank you very much. I'll see you next time.

 

Arlene  43:49

This has been the Inform fitness podcast with Adam Zickerman. for over 20 years informed fitness has been providing clients of all ages with customized personal training designed to build strength fast. Visit Inform fitness.com for testimonials, blogs and videos on the three pillars, exercise, nutrition and recovery.

What is The InForm Fitness Podcast?

Now listened to in 100 countries, The InForm Fitness Podcast with Adam Zickerman is a presentation of InForm Fitness Studios, specializing in safe, efficient, High Intensity strength training.
Adam discusses the latest findings in the areas of exercise, nutrition and recovery with leading experts and scientists. We aim to debunk the popular misconceptions and urban myths that are so prevalent in the fields of health and fitness and to replace those sacred cows with scientific-based, up-to-the-minute information on a variety of subjects. The topics covered include exercise protocols and techniques, nutrition, sleep, recovery, the role of genetics in the response to exercise, and much more.

Inform_R FRANCIS Ep 70

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
physical education, exercise, sports, people, fitness, school, called, problems, education, athletics, early, teaching, educators, kids, gymnastics, plato, naperville, games, obesity, recreation

Arlene 00:01
The Inform fitness podcast with Adam Zickerman is a presentation of Inform fitness studios, a small family of personal training facilities specializing in safe, efficient high intensity strength training. On our BI monthly podcast, Adam discusses the latest findings in the area of exercise nutrition and recovery with leading experts and scientists, we aim to debunk the popular misconceptions and urban myths that are so prevalent in the fields of health and fitness. And to replace those sacred cows with scientific based up to the minute information on a variety of subjects will cover exercise protocols and techniques, nutrition, sleep, recovery, the role of genetics in the response to exercise, and much more. For this episode, Adam welcomes back Robert Francis, exercise historian and instructor at informed fitness. If you're a parent with young children, you must listen to bad education. Robert explains how important exercise is for our children and details the fascinating yet sobering history of the physical education system in American schools, from its roots, its original mission, how we diverged. And what as parents can we do about for the first time in American history, there is likely to be a generation dental are going to have a shorter lifespan than their pounds.

Adam 01:38
Well, I am so happy to bring back Robert Francis, once again, my mentor, so for so many years, who now have the honor of working with him for fitness. He has a fount of information, when I asked him about all the subjects that we should talk about, one subject that he likes to talk about, and he's well versed on is something that you don't normally hear me talking about, because I don't really know that much about it at all. Although Robert says I do no more than I think about it. So we're going to find out. And that is the subject of your original intent of our physical education system in the United States. You know, gym class and school, and how it compares to the actual present reality is how Robert likes to put it. So, Robert, I guess we'll start with this question. Why do you think this is an important subject for this podcast? Because you know, we normally talk about, you know, exercise fitness nutrition. So here, we're talking about the physical education system, the United States. So why do you think this is an important subject?

Robert 02:48
Well, we train hundreds of people a day in our studios. And I can see and you can see that people ask questions that they really ought to know the answers to people come in with problems that when we talk, we talk about how preventable so many of these problems are. And it's very clear that people have had an inadequate education for 12 years in the public school and kindergarten, on how to maintain their physical bodies. And in my view, a lot of what comes into our doors are not people wanting to optimize an already well moving body, but they're reconstructing a body that is falling apart from maladies and from conditions that are completely preventable, and that they ought to have been adequately educated in order to prevent they're coming in with problems that have to be dealt with. First, sometimes their injuries very often, it's obesity, and diabetes, there's a lot of makeup work that has to be done before we can put them on a course of really robust physical health. Well, you're

Adam 04:13
right. I mean, are you? Are you including a lot of orthopedic issues as well? Yes, sometimes? Yeah. But it's not just orthopedic issues. You're saying things like, you know, metabolic syndrome type stuff, you know, just obesity, high blood pressure, just just bad health,

Robert 04:27
and a lot of the problems that those things bring on mental distress, anxiety, depression, and all the rest of these things that had they been maintaining had they've been taught, according to original intent for physical education, the so

Adam 04:45
you're saying the original intent of our physical education system, you'll have to tell us when that started, actually, is that the 40s? Is that the 30s but the original intent whenever that was in our physical education system, United States, it was a good intent. They had good intentions and they did it well.

Robert 05:00
Well, physical education has been something that's always been in flux in this country. And it says some of it has to do with customs. And some of it has to do with cultural changes. But the original intent was so intelligent that it would apply today and top physical educators today are trying to get back to the original intent.

Adam 05:23
Well, what was the original intent? And when did that start? The original

Robert 05:27
intent was voiced in the 1820s. But had its origins earlier than that between 1802 an 1809. The original intent was to provide children with the knowledge and interest in maintaining a high level of physical fitness for life.

Adam 05:51
Was that a mission statement? Did you just read that as a mission statement from from the Board of Education,

Robert 05:56
that would have been early educators, I think there was no Board of Education yet in 1820, but by American educators, there had been a great interest in the works of Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, that many people don't know, was a wrestler. He was a student of Socrates, teacher of Aristotle, Plato developed what he called the academia, which means school, school is an English word comes with German word shul, which literally means place for having fun and learning. In Plato's Republic, he had addressed Physical Activity and its importance and its relationship to learning. Boys and girls learn far better in an atmosphere or in a setting where physical activity occurred on a regular basis. In fact, a daily basis, Plato had been very influenced in his observations of schools all over the Greek world. And he went to the islands, and he went to southern Greece, where he observed the very systematic training in Peloponnesian of Spartan boys. There was a very rigid training that started at age seven. And Sparta was not known as a city state that valued poetry and music and drama and dance, but they train their boys. Physically, there was no systematic learning program, anywhere else, everybody sat in what was maybe a theater, and the expert or the guru, or the person would come in and talk, you know, kind of like watching maybe YouTube videos more than a systematic today, we do this. Tonight, we do this tomorrow, we get up at this time we do that. And the systemization was very impressive to Plato. And that started to influence Greek schools, everywhere. This was of interest to Westerners in the 1820s, because we started discovering these antiquity, started reading the Old epic poems and started reading the old books written by the old masters of the ancient days. And we thought, well, this kind of learning are things that we will need in American public schools. Now, there had been systems of exercise developed in other countries,

Adam 08:37
systems based on the the early Greeks,

Robert 08:40
not necessarily Europeans, also had similar interests. And so running, jumping games with implements and balls and things. Were in their early development, most of it grew out of the gymnastic systems, but the idea that physical education is educational, and ought to be planted in the public schools rather than in, for example, Germany, it was the Turnverein, which these were clubs where you would father would take son meet their brother, and you know, and his kids and they would do gymnastics, and you know, for the most part, drink beer and eat sausages. But the idea of placing physical education in public school education developed in the United States, it didn't develop anywhere else or developed here. First, meaning unlike Germany, physical education was not meant to be training for the military. Unlike Sweden, it wasn't training just for bodily fitness. And unlike England, it wasn't games and athletics just for recreation. Physical Education is, for the most part, an American concept and it has had been developed from interest in developing the body as a part of a person's wholeness.

Adam 10:07
And that's a unique American idea is that directly from the ancient Greeks,

Robert 10:13
the modern embodiment is an American ideal. But that is right. That is right. It was adapted from the Greek Academy.

Adam 10:22
Well, I want to talk specifically about the program, I want to know what kids were taught, when you say that you're trying to emulate the Greeks, about teaching education, as the body is, as some part of your wholeness, you know, complete person needs to be physically active and physically strong. How did they teach that? What was the early curriculum like? And how is it compared to the curriculum now?

Robert 10:42
Well, in the early days, there were no real physical educators that would, it would usually be the people who were their regular teachers. A lot of it was not uniformly applied, because it had to do a great deal with an individual teachers own experience, and what physical activity, they themselves understood. These things started to get more uniformly applied later.

Adam 11:09
Are you saying there was this push for educating children in our school systems in the 1820s? So who was pushing for it? Where did it start to start which school system to start in New York to start to start all at once I said, you said people were pushing for certain states,

Robert 11:24
the early models were at places like Harvard and Amherst College, because that's where the people who were educated and who had access to a lot of the ancient classics, and this is where the the ideas were percolating. And so the development of physical education was from really the people who they observed as the experts in the day, and that would have been Swedes, Germans, and together with what was culturally known in the United States, games like Rounders and games with, with balls and things like that. And these are the same places where games like basketball and volleyball were developed a little bit later. But physical education really started becoming what we know of physical education really around the civil war time. And there were educators who were looking at calisthenics and gymnastic exercises, which pretty much the way that things had been for 40 or 50 years. The other school of thought were advocates of athletics, and they felt that games and sports were more social in nature, and that they required more participants to make very quick judgments and called on other qualities, non physical qualities, courage and cooperation, self reliance and ethics. And a lot of that was from the English tradition of athletics and games, where being a good team member would improve your character, and it would make you an excellent citizen of the Empire.

Adam 13:07
Yeah, well, that makes sense. I mean, yeah, I mean, we all agree that sports do all those things. But they both went out because I mean, I think schools incorporated sports and physical education as far as just getting stronger and exercise in general, from a pure sense, not necessarily the competitive part.

Robert 13:25
Well, another of the original intent of physical education in this country had been that American children would be made into lifetime participants, not lifetime spectators.

Adam 13:39
But this happens in one exercise a sports, same doesn't matter.

Robert 13:42
But what ended up happening is the model that overwhelmingly came out on top was the athletic model, the teaching of sports, the rules of games and teaching of sports and the grading of children for much of American Physical Education, the grading of students against other children rather than against themselves, that calisthenics and bodily exercises like gymnastics or and I have to say that the term gymnastics is not the term of the sport of gymnastics as we know it today. In the Olympics, right gymnastics was exercise back it was what we would call exercise. It was clubs swinging clubs that were loosely like a mostly like a baseball bat.

Adam 14:33
So that was considered a gymnastics that was considered exercise.

Robert 14:36
Yes, that would that would have fallen into the category of gymnastics club swinging was

Adam 14:42
alright States didn't really adapt gymnastics as such. They started veering towards the sports athletics route well,

Robert 14:51
right in the education in in physical education. The preferred model was the athletic model.

Adam 14:57
Who Are there any names here? I mean, who was the best proponent for you know, gymnastics in the American schools versus who was the big advocate for sports in the school education system?

Robert 15:08
Well, Walter Camp was a principal name. And Walter Camp especially I was name is, of course, highly associated with football. And I don't know how many stadiums are called Walter kam field, but there are a lot of them. So he was the athletic well, he, he was one of the principal advocates for athletics, and particularly football football became two physical educators, a model of what they called American manhood should be that it was strength, and it was fleet of foot. And it was character building. And it was obedience. And it was fast thinking, and it was every thing that they thought American manhood should be. And really, I know that when I was in elementary school, my coach was former football guy. And so many of us who went to school in the 50s, and 60s, our phys ed coaches, were ex pro football players. These were the guys who were chosen or who, who got the phys ed jobs, rather than people who were specifically trained in education and knowledge about learning and teaching,

Adam 16:26
whereas they're gonna thought the whole thing about American education was teaching. And now you're telling me that not?

Robert 16:31
Well, physical education has been the exception. And that's what we're talking about, but I'm confused. What Um, well, the confusion is that we have very early on escaped from the original intent

Adam 16:45
very early. I mean, like says, like we ever got there. I mean, alright, so Walter Camp was one guy who is who is the guy on the other side? Well, first of all, where's Where did Walter Camp come from? Well,

Robert 16:54
he had been a long time physical educator, he felt that by doing physical education, with sports and games, and of course, football in particular, that that would satisfy a student's need or requirement for bodily exercise. And that that would be sufficient to motivate them for a future of lifetime of physical engagement

Adam 17:20
camp wrote a book, The Daily doesn't exercise regimen, right? So there were 12 exercises, they became known as hands, grind, crawl, wave, hips, great curl, weave head, grasp, crouch and wing. As the name indicates, there are 12 exercises. And they could be completed in about eight minutes. So he did this quickly. Right. So that sounds like exercise to me. It doesn't sound like sports to

Robert 17:45
me. Well, that's not what was proposed. He was a principal voice, not the only voice. And when you do things by committee, what ends up happening is is never one individual's conception.

Adam 17:56
So what was the other side?

Robert 17:59
Well, the other side were preponderance of educators who had been proponents of the ongoing gymnastics and calisthenic method.

Adam 18:10
Who is that was that like Banagher? McFadden? No,

Robert 18:13
no, no, he had nothing to do with public school education. The thing you I suppose you would call it the system, the establishment. But what ended up winning out before the 20th century was the athletic model, and that, for the most part stayed a part of American fiscal education until World War One, when nearly 35% of draftees were unfit for military duty. And in fact, the term fitness is a military term. You think about fitness, use fitness for what you know, you could be you know, fit for shoveling shit from one end to another, but fitness was a military term fitness for service, and that would be for war service. So 35% of American draftees were unfit for service in World War One. Immediately after World War One, there was a call for an entire reorganization of fiscal education in the public schools that we can have this lack of preparedness occur again and then everybody's budgets dropped because we had a depression. So that's one of the cultural changes that caused physical education to get derailed it very likely may have gotten on to a very good path. Had we not had the depression and we would have had better preparedness for World War Two. Now, World War Two conditions were even worse. 40% just a little over 40% of draftees were unfit for military duty.

Adam 19:49
And we blame and we blame at least in part, the fact that we were just focusing on sports and school not and we weren't focusing on orang

Robert 19:57
or or NUS or not at all, very little was was happening in physical education because it was not made a priority.

Adam 20:05
Alright, so we win the war. What happens then to our physical education system?

Robert 20:11
After World War two things were very different than after World War One in the 50s. We started reevaluating just about everything, because we were worried we start worrying about preparedness. And of course, you had a general who was president of the United States at the time. And when Eisenhower, that's right. during the Eisenhower administration, public school buildings started going up, everywhere, all of the new facilities were going to have sports facilities, and we're going to have much much upgraded physical education facilities compared to pre war. By the time Kennedy came in facilities where their money was free flowing, we could now start exploring what physical education could be. And new schools that were being built or being built with then state of the art equipment, equipment was, well, there, there would be rings and bars and ropes and even pulley machines and mats for wrestling mats and parallel bars and a lot of the things that had been abandoned in the previous years, and bringing back some of what the original bodily exercises,

Adam 21:21
so schools are incorporating all these things like, because I remember my I mean, I was in elementary school in the 70s. And I remember climbing a row, I remember the pegs that you had to kind of climb up the wall and put the pegs one after the other. And really that which is hard to have to do whatever amount of situps and mount of time and you know, there there was like this element of physical education,

Robert 21:45
what you had there were or what we had, we were at the very tail end of Kennedy's physical education program. And that was where we were tested. We were tested at the beginning of the year. And we were tested in the middle of the year with tests at the end of the year, for sit ups and shuttle runs, and you'd be tested for your chin ups. And you were tested. From year to year, you would see your progression.

Adam 22:13
Alright, so that was a 70 is where we are now because you're telling me like, you know, because of the people that you mentioned earlier, the people that are coming to us with metabolic syndrome, orthopedic problems. These are all the baby boomers that went through the school system like you and I did, because I am the last baby boomer. So I'm a sixth I was born 64. Right? So between 45, I guess, and 64 was a big baby boomers and they went to school, they went to elementary school in the 50s through the 70s. And these are the people that don't seem to be very well educated. And they certainly don't seem to be very healthy right now. Why? Well,

Robert 22:47
there are things we know now. And there are things that were not known in the 1960s when Kennedy's physical education programs were being formulated, I didn't say that Kennedy achieved what the original intent was in physical education, only that it was a better system than what had come before. So there are things we know now that we didn't know then there are people living longer now and people who are subjected to cultural changes that never existed in the 19, let's say 50s, where by the time they were 50 years old, in 1965, would be suffering from these metabolic diseases. There weren't certain things in the diet, they weren't certain cultural things, and all the rest. Where are we now, there is a term that's being used right now all over the world everywhere, called the new smoking. And that is something cultural everywhere. The new smoking was first used about three years ago in Lancet, the British Medical Journal. And the new smoking is inactivity, and all of the things that go with it. That's obesity, that's shorter lifespan. obese kids are more likely to be bullied, they have poorer jobs, prospects when they get older. And these things are occurring. Because of people looking at screens. They're not doing things and they're they're spending hours and hours playing games. They're up till obscene hours of the night, communicating with people all over the world and they're sleeping far less. They're doing far less. They're not riding their bikes, and they're not playing baseball, and they're not looking for hockey games, and they're not looking to be active. And this is what they're calling the new smoking. Now this is happening at exactly the time where physical education budgets are being cut everywhere. As I I understand that the median budget for physical education per school is under $800. That that would be for the entire school. And I think it ends up coming out to less than 10 cents per student. So at a time where we have this explosion in the new smoking, that is inactivity, obesity, and all of the problems that go with it, because there are other problems that go with it, there are mental emotional problems that go with it. There is a postural decay that's occurring. And this is something else that we see all the time, I don't think there's or I'd be surprised if there's anybody under 35 That doesn't have their head slung forward, and their shoulders rounded forward in a manner that is not going to be correctable. The posture problem alone is muscular weakness, eventually, eventually orthopedic problems, irreversible skeletal deformities, early osteoporosis, all of these things can contribute together with obesity into a vastly shorter lifespan. And part of the talk around the new smoking is that for the first time in American history, there is likely to be a generation that will are going to have a shorter lifespan than their parents, I can see that, and the things that we now know, that we didn't know in the 60s. And Kennedy implemented a lot of really excellence in physical education, with not a very large expenditure of money or resources.

Adam 26:50
I take back what I said a little bit, I mean, because I said, we're dealing with baby boomers. And they came out of the Kennedy Eisenhower Kennedy theory that that education belongs in the school, that he was on 10th, being, you know, following the Greeks, you know, what they, how they valued physical education. We had to do all that stuff in school when you had gym class, and we played sports, and we tried to climb those ropes. And, you know, there were problems with that. I mean, like, for example, people are not all kids are created equal. And your ability to climb rope doesn't mean you're not fit. I mean, there are lots of kids in that class that couldn't actually climb that rope. And they would judge by their ability to climb that rope. And they're scarred for the rest of their lives because they couldn't climb that rope. Meanwhile, they were strong fit kids that maybe were bottom heavy because of their genetics. And there's no way that we're going to be able to climb that rope, even though they might have been able to hit a baseball a million miles and crush you on the front line of a football team. They just weren't climbing the ropes. And like I think we kind of did very narrow ideas of what was required to be physically fit. And I think, where education went wrong there was to be able to separate as Ken Hutchins did later, on many years later, to separate the difference between exercise and recreation. There's nothing wrong with sports, but we have to know our risks. And there's nothing wrong with choosing these things. We're all big boys and girls, but when it comes to getting strong and the understanding of health, I think what we have to understand is that's not What sports do for us, sports, undermine your health, your physical health, it undermines the integrity of your joints, you get injuries that you might live the rest of your life with, like I am with my back problems and my shoulder problems from playing baseball for all those years. And here I am thinking that's all good exercise. For me. I'm out there playing sports, but it wasn't good for my health. Because I'm suffering right now, because of those things. My health. I mean, what Ken Hutchins did with the recreation verse exercise is exactly what I think should be taught in the schools right now, you make that distinction at an early age, the difference between exercise and what we do at informed fitness and the efficacy of high intensity training that doesn't undermine your health, versus the choice and benefits of sports. And being outside and being active, like the Greek said, be out there and be active, right. And you're talking now about our modern children, sitting behind a computer all day long in the basements not getting their sleep, which is a big part of health. Forget about exercise, forget about it. So T GE IQ, high intensity strength training, to help them build bone and to maintain a mind of fitness and strength throughout their lives. They get that, but they're not even doing the recreation part. They're not even going out and just riding the damn bicycle anymore.

Robert 29:39
Why is that? Why Why isn't it in physical education courses?

Adam 29:44
I don't know. Tell me why. Why isn't my school right now? Understanding that distinction? That's right. That is so

Robert 29:51
it's not it's not a rhetorical question, because so much of physical education in this country has been polluted with athletics, that all of physical education is not even required in higher education unless you're an athlete, his physical education has turned Americans, from participants into spectators, which was the opposite of the intent of Physical Education, physical education has become at the college level, a farm team for professional athletics. And that's all it's observed as if you're the kid who can't catch a ball, and who can't stop the puck or something like that. You feel like you have no use for physical education anymore. And the original intent is something that one has to get back to. Right now. Physical Education is so devalued that in most of the country, you're not even required to participate. Every single year, much of the country,

Adam 31:02
what's what grades you're talking about

Robert 31:04
K to 12. In much of the country, high school Phys Ed is only required for a single year. Yeah. And it's, it's it's optional, or edit and when it is provided, it's provided one day a week. In fact, in Florida, you're only required to have one semester of physical education between grade nine and 12. And that's all that's needed to graduate high school. And it's worse than that. You can do it online

Adam 31:36
level education.

Robert 31:37
There's one state in this country that has physical education in its charter for every student, K to 12, five days a week, one state, which is that state of Illinois Bridgeview, Illinois, their director of Phys. Ed at Naperville Public Schools is called Paul's and Tarski. And this guy is going to beat today's name in our modern Phys. Ed. innovator. What are you doing? Well, he's in part responsible for maintaining full load of physic every child every day, K to 12. In Illinois, now

Adam 32:26
is he the my education superintendent?

Robert 32:30
He's a Phys. Ed director, Naperville public

Adam 32:33
school. Oh, so he's just responsible for for Naperville, which is a suburb of Chicago, by the way,

Robert 32:38
after Harvard University sent a group of their directors to see what it is that's going on in Naperville. That their math reading science scores are far above the national average that their school system is competitive with the best in Japan and China, Norway, Sweden, what John ratty of Harvard University said, and this is this is in multiple multiple sources, after meeting Paul's and Toschi and examining their physical education program and the way it relates to other subjects. ratty said, exercises like fertilizer for the brain. It's like Miracle Gro. The thing about exercise, and this is at any age. And it's double true for people under 20 years old. That exercise builds neurons in new brain cells in the hippocampus. That's part of the brain that deals with memory and new learning. New Learning, crossword puzzles, puzzles, trivia games, don't build brain cells. Exercise builds brain cells. So this is going to become a big deal with Alzheimer's yet another disease that exercise can deal with, but it has to be dealt with young

Adam 34:09
and Naperville is on top of that.

Robert 34:12
They are the state of the art physical education colleges are teaching the system that they're using in Naperville. And another thing, exercise when it's applied, and when it's applied with skill. There are so many conditions and maladies that are just never going to happen to you. But the thing is that these things have to be dealt with early bone building in women. Really you have a you have a very short window of really being able to multiply your bone density. And that's really from pre pubescent until about the age of 16 Everybody We're all in that age group ought to be on an in tense regimen of strength training. And you're talking about between obesity and the maladies that follow, and the depression and the anxiety and all of the rest of these things, the posture problems, the orthopedic problems and the learning disabilities, you're talking about maybe a trillion dollars, billions don't matter anymore. But you're talking about trillions of dollars in health care, money, here, you have a solution to so many problems, maybe not every problem, and maybe not the total solution for any problem. But at least, you don't have to make something worse with the new smoking

Adam 35:46
true credit to Illinois for having physical education in their system for five days a week when everyone else is making it almost optional, it seems. But the question is, like I brought up earlier, I think it's great that they're making the kids get outside and recess every day, and there's maybe some sports involved. And they're playing dodgeball every single day. And they're playing a sports, depending upon the season, I guess. But are they teaching exercise? Are they teaching the difference between exercise and recreation? are they understanding that there is a difference? They understand the benefits of high intensity strain training versus cardio? Are they making those distinctions? Because that's where I think we need to be our education system

Robert 36:26
that that is in the first place, we have to take these things one step at a time. And the first step is physical education has to be a core subject. It has to be like math, reading, science, history, or like the commies call it now social studies, is we have to have the word social everywhere. But the start of improving these things first, and no, Naperville is not on that. That's a component bodily strength is a component there more than another physical education systems. But the start is where Naperville is that's the start every school, every grade, every student, every single day.

Adam 37:14
No, I agree. It's very important. We have a lot of problems right now. We have a lot of problems with our kids staying in the basement playing the video games, not wanting to go out and do things. I mean, I had one kid told me is that brings him into work out here. You know, I've formed a bond with him. But he's also friends with my son, they were in the same class. I said, Why don't you get together with my son? Today, you know, maybe you can go swimming in the pool or something. He's like, no need. I mean, we can just talk online, we can be together online. That's when you want to at least be together when you can. I mean, it's so easy for you guys to get together. You can hang out in the pool and go back and you can play your games on the arm on the computer. But you can also go swimming first and then go back and forth. Maybe? No, I think that's representative of a lot of kids. And that really scares me.

Robert 38:04
It's early stage depression. That really

Adam 38:07
concerns me. And it concerns me that the school and part of it is that the schools are emphasizing that. And if the schools are making it physical education, almost nothing practically anymore. For like you said, I mean, colleges now just farm teams for professional sports. So if you're not at that level, and you're not playing sports, I mean, they have intramurals I remember intramurals and college, are they I'm sure they still haven't done mural sports and things like that. And they were popular when I was in college. But yeah, I mean, I don't know.

Robert 38:36
It's sad. It's sad, and the facilities are there already. So

Adam 38:40
listen, so I talking to your kids, and getting them off the computer. We have to teach them. The schools aren't doing it. The schools aren't going to do it. And kids have to know how important exercise is. It's not just our state of mind, but it's for our physical health, weigh into our future what you do as a youth physically, exercise wise, has ramifications in your adult life. It's like investing into an IRA. If you don't invest into your health and your fitness and your strength, really, I mean, nowadays to me, fitness means strength. As Robert pointed out, fitness used to just mean your ability to fight in combat. Fitness now is about being strong and everything that comes from being strong. When I interviewed James Fisher, James Fisher was talking about you know, how strength is very, is very closely related to the lifespan, you know, the stronger you are, the less likely you are to die early. And our youth, as you pointed out, they're kyphotic their underslept overfed under active

Robert 39:43
bad posture, flat feet. They bore easily.

Adam 39:47
Yeah, I'm seeing that now. I mean, hope I don't sound like the old generation saying oh, the new generation today that Oh, no, no, but But

Robert 39:55
Well, you're right as they were right about us.

Adam 39:59
I really To wrap this up, sorry to end on such a sober note. But we have to advocate for ourselves, we have to advocate for our nutrition. And you know, like, no subject. Another talk I was having with people is that, you know, hospitals have the worst food by the way. And when you're in the hospital, and they feed they they serve you the worst food, you know, they'll give 60% carbohydrates to a diabetic. You know, my wife works in a hospital, I've been to their cafeteria, it's unbelievable what they're serving cafeterias or hospitals. I mean, like, where's our nutrition education? And if it's not being taught in the hospitals, if it's not being represented as a standard and a hospital, then where are we going to get this information from where people going to understand, you got to advocate for yourself, you're not getting it from the health care, you're not getting it from the hospitals, you're not getting it from the schools. Or you

Robert 40:42
have to wonder if that's just not a wide scale institutional plan to kill us all, you know,

Adam 40:49
but, you know, get your kids outside, get them to strength train safely, get kids to understand the importance of being strong and fit. And when I say strong, I don't mean being able to beat the shit out of somebody in the bullying school. Or I don't mean looking like some kind of Adonis on Men's Health magazine. And you look like a Hugh Jackman, we, you know, I mean, we all deal with origin and we're all normal, average people. But normal average, people can be strong. Alright, so I don't buy this shit that that my kid is a my kid more intellectual. Alright, he's not the jock. It's not about being a jock versus intellectual. It's about being an intellectual. And being a strong intellectual, you can be an intellectual not being into sports, alright, and still be strong. And kids need to understand the difference. Because they're being taught something else. They're being taught that if you're not into sports, then you're not an athlete, and you shouldn't work out and you don't have to work out. Because what's the point of working out? If you're not gonna play a sport?

Robert 41:49
You'll be a better intellectual if you're much stronger.

Adam 41:53
Yeah, you'll be healthier, longer living intellectual, so you can, you know, so you don't die at 27. Like some of my greatest influences. Plato was a wrestler. There you go. Alright. So for you listening to this episode, and you're relating to this, and you're thinking of your kids and the school that you're in, because I know, we have listeners all around the world, I'm really curious to know if people are experiencing what we're experiencing and how the schools are dealing with physical education, and where you're at whether you're in the United States and different districts in the United States and different countries. I just started training some new podcast listener and Sweden so I'm going to talk to him to I'm curious, if you really want to know how to advocate for your kids, give me a call. I can consult with you. I can teach you how to teach your children about the principles of proper exercise even if they're not, as they say in my town in the UK if they're not a sporty so you got the sport he's against the other kids that aren't sport is now the gamers, I guess, you know, it said that a sporty that people if you're not a sporty that you don't have to be physically fit. And that's a bad message to give to our youth. And we need to change that. And if you're curious, look up Ken Hutchins exercise versus recreation. I'm sure you can find that essay online somewhere. And if you can't, let me know, I'll send you a copy. Alright, so I'm doing lots of virtuals. Now all around the all around the world. It just signed up some really nice guy. Hi, Tom, if you're listening from Sweden, I can really teach you how to how to use a dumbbell correctly. If you want to really learn how to stay strong in a brief period of time and move on with your life. All right, I've never thought about promoting virtual training. But here I am. And I'm doing it is working because I just realized it's not about our fancy retrofitted equipment. That's nice. But you still need to know how to use the dumbbell correctly and not hurt his shoulder. Remember exercise recreation. Alright, everybody. Thank you very much. I'll see you next time.

Arlene 43:49
This has been the Inform fitness podcast with Adam Zickerman. for over 20 years informed fitness has been providing clients of all ages with customized personal training designed to build strength fast. Visit Inform fitness.com for testimonials, blogs and videos on the three pillars, exercise, nutrition and recovery.

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